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View Full Version : Hanley Ramirez to the Dodgers


WhiteSox5187
07-25-2012, 04:03 AM
Per Ken Rosenthal and Jon Heyman on Twitter the Dodgers acquire Hanley Ramirez and Randy Choate in exchange for Nathan Eovaldi and Scott McGough.

BleacherBandit
07-25-2012, 04:49 AM
I know the Marlins are having a bad year in their new digs, but this came as a surprise to me. He's their franchise player.

Boondock Saint
07-25-2012, 05:36 AM
I know the Marlins are having a bad year in their new digs, but this came as a surprise to me. He's their franchise player.

:ozzie

"We don't need his *bleep*ing *bleep* *bleep* ass anymore, I'm the face of the franchise now."

doublem23
07-25-2012, 07:25 AM
So how much longer does Ozzie have a job in South Beach? Does he even make it through 2013?

The Dude
07-25-2012, 07:51 AM
So how much longer does Ozzie have a job in South Beach? Does he even make it through 2013?

By all that is logical, he should not. He inherited a huge payroll filled with lots of star players and of course, he has failed as manager. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. :tongue:

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-25-2012, 07:52 AM
I think with Hanley's antics/attitude, he played his way out of "face of the franchise" status. Either Josh Johnson or Giancarlo Stanton are the faces of the franchise now (if Johnson doesn't get dealt).

On the flip side, I'm sure Hanley is relieved that he doesn't have to see that godawful contraption light up every time he hits a home run anymore.

Moses_Scurry
07-25-2012, 08:13 AM
So how much longer does Ozzie have a job in South Beach? Does he even make it through 2013?

I don't think he'll get fired any time soon, but I could see him "retiring" rather than dealing with the rebuild.

VenturaFan23
07-25-2012, 08:29 AM
Guess there was room for only one attention whore in that franchise.

Talk about an epic fail. Spend like crazy in the offseason and now it's time to blow it all up. Great job, Ozzie! I saw yesterday that they're even taking calls on Heath Bell too. Good luck with that one!

102605
07-25-2012, 08:30 AM
What happens to Dee Gordon when he comes back? Hanley to 3B again?

russ99
07-25-2012, 09:33 AM
I think with Hanley's antics/attitude, he played his way out of "face of the franchise" status. Either Josh Johnson or Giancarlo Stanton are the faces of the franchise now (if Johnson doesn't get dealt).

On the flip side, I'm sure Hanley is relieved that he doesn't have to see that godawful contraption light up every time he hits a home run anymore.

He's hitting .246, but they should have realized that the new park was going to be awful for power hitters and made adjustments before finishing construction.

Boy you guys love to pile on Ozzie... What does he have to do with moving out a highly paid, pouty, underperforming player?

Besides, Ozzie's managerial style is perfect for that park, once the roster is reshuffled away from sluggers to gap hitters. Wouldn't surprise me if Stanton is next on the way out.

CPditka
07-25-2012, 10:19 AM
He's hitting .246, but they should have realized that the new park was going to be awful for power hitters and made adjustments before finishing construction.

Boy you guys love to pile on Ozzie... What does he have to do with moving out a highly paid, pouty, underperforming player?

Besides, Ozzie's managerial style is perfect for that park, once the roster is reshuffled away from sluggers to gap hitters. Wouldn't surprise me if Stanton is next on the way out.

Dealing Hanley and Stanton would be a terrible move. I cant believe how little they got back for Hanley. I guess that Carl Crawford rumor over the summer might have had some legs.

doublem23
07-25-2012, 10:26 AM
Boy you guys love to pile on Ozzie... What does he have to do with moving out a highly paid, pouty, underperforming player?

Because Ozzie was brought in to be the great manager who was going to lead this new collection of Marlins to glory. Here we are, 10 months since he was hired, and they're already selling off former key parts for scraps because they suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. I don't think Ozzie had much to do with Hanley's struggles, because everything I've ever read about Hanley indicates he's a dick, but eventually, a team's struggles come back to the manager. Besides, if Ozzie's not the guy to get these guys to play well together, it's easier to find a new manager than it is to reshape an MLB roster. ****, the White Sox are Exhibit A as to how much difference a change in manager can make for an underperforming club. The Marlins are in the same boat as the 2011 Sox; they don't suck because they have a lack of talent, they suck because their manager just doesn't know how to get the most out of his players.

Besides, there's plenty of crappy managers in charge of crappy teams, but we obviously take a little more interest in the Marlins considering their crappy manager spent most of the last few years torpedoeing our favorite team, so it's nice to watch that ******* get his just desserts. Sometimes, life is fair.

doublem23
07-25-2012, 10:27 AM
Dealing Hanley and Stanton would be a terrible move. I cant believe how little they got back for Hanley. I guess that Carl Crawford rumor over the summer might have had some legs.

Seriously. Though, they're not winning, they're not selling enough tickets, and a bunch of these crazy deals they signed in the off-season are insanely backloaded. Probably going to have to sell off a few pieces to make ends meet.

From top to bottom, the Marlins are a ****ign joke.

Tragg
07-25-2012, 10:30 AM
Doesn't look like the Dodgers had to give up much other than a 5th starter type (don't know much about Eovaldi, except that he has low K totals and numbers that resemble an Axe) and an A ball pitcher. Look low-ceiling.
Dodgers also got a very serviceable situational lefty.
I can't believe the price was so low.

As for Guillen, he carried over to Florida one of his traits I found most annoying when he was in Chicago: sniping at under-performing young players, while coddling the non-performing vets. I was struck in one interview when he was yapping at how the rookies aren't hitting and will be sent down if they don't produce; and then started talking about Logan Morrison and how hard he was trying and what a fine influence he was.

Irishsox1
07-25-2012, 10:37 AM
The Marlins have a cheap owner end of story. Any of those high priced guys will be dumped soon, the Miami "fans" will stay away and the Marlins will go back to having the lowest payroll in baseball. I'm betting Ozzie will be fired before Buherle gets traded to the Yankees or Red Sox.

slavko
07-25-2012, 10:45 AM
The Marlins have a cheap owner end of story. Any of those high priced guys will be dumped soon, the Miami "fans" will stay away and the Marlins will go back to having the lowest payroll in baseball. I'm betting Ozzie will be fired before Buherle gets traded to the Yankees or Red Sox.

No situation more volatile than a cheap owner with a high payroll. We all know who's the new face of the franchise. For how long?

kittle42
07-25-2012, 10:56 AM
Boy you guys love to pile on Ozzie... What does he have to do with moving out a highly paid, pouty, underperforming player?

I seem to recall a few highly paid players on the Sox who are doing much better without Ozzie.

PatK
07-25-2012, 11:04 AM
The Marlins are a great example of what happens when you hire a manager to be one of the faces of a team instead of managing it well.

russ99
07-25-2012, 11:45 AM
Because Ozzie was brought in to be the great manager who was going to lead this new collection of Marlins to glory. Here we are, 10 months since he was hired, and they're already selling off former key parts for scraps because they suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. I don't think Ozzie had much to do with Hanley's struggles, because everything I've ever read about Hanley indicates he's a dick, but eventually, a team's struggles come back to the manager. Besides, if Ozzie's not the guy to get these guys to play well together, it's easier to find a new manager than it is to reshape an MLB roster. ****, the White Sox are Exhibit A as to how much difference a change in manager can make for an underperforming club. The Marlins are in the same boat as the 2011 Sox; they don't suck because they have a lack of talent, they suck because their manager just doesn't know how to get the most out of his players.

Besides, there's plenty of crappy managers in charge of crappy teams, but we obviously take a little more interest in the Marlins considering their crappy manager spent most of the last few years torpedoeing our favorite team, so it's nice to watch that ******* get his just desserts. Sometimes, life is fair.

Funny, the man's been managing the team for 4 months + spring training, and it's already been decided that he can't get the best of his players, not that their idiot owner overextended and didn't plan on the changes that always come in with a new ballpark - similar to what happened with the Mets.

Seems easy to scapegoat what happened the last few years. Truth is Ozzie was to blame, and so was Jerry, Kenny and the rest of the coaching staff, not to mention certain overpayed and underperforming players...

But keep piling it on one guy, the guy that you obviously dislike, and can't stop slamming 10 months after he left the Sox.

doublem23
07-25-2012, 11:54 AM
Seems easy to scapegoat what happened the last few years. Truth is Ozzie was to blame, and so was Jerry, Kenny and the rest of the coaching staff, not to mention certain overpayed and underperforming players...

Funny how many of those "overpayed and underperforming" players revert back to their career norms as soon as KW and JR got the sense to toss Ozzie out with the rest of the garbage. Coincidence, though, I'm sure.

palehozenychicty
07-25-2012, 12:04 PM
The Marlins' fall is quite surprising to me. They never recovered from Ozzie's Castro episode. I had them contending for the second Wild Card at the minimum, even with that thin rotation. There's too much ability for that roster to be struggling at this level.

For the Dodgers to get Hanley at that price means his stock is at the lowest point. His career is in the balance right now. He needs to step up.

spawn
07-25-2012, 12:16 PM
Funny, the man's been managing the team for 4 months + spring training, and it's already been decided that he can't get the best of his players, not that their idiot owner overextended and didn't plan on the changes that always come in with a new ballpark - similar to what happened with the Mets.

Seems easy to scapegoat what happened the last few years. Truth is Ozzie was to blame, and so was Jerry, Kenny and the rest of the coaching staff, not to mention certain overpayed and underperforming players...

But keep piling it on one guy, the guy that you obviously dislike, and can't stop slamming 10 months after he left the Sox.
This White Sox team is basically the same team Ozzie managed, minus their ace from last season (Buehrle) along with Danks being gone most of the season, in the same crappy division, and the team is in first place. Meanwhile, the Marlins spent a lot of money this offseason on players and their loud mothed manager, and are in a sellers market. I wonder where the fault lies? Seems these underperforming players are responding to new management, but I could be wrong.

It's hilarious how you call out someone for their dislike of Ozzie, when it's obvious your love of him knows no bounds. :rolling:

Lip Man 1
07-25-2012, 12:42 PM
The Marlins needed to make a big splash this year...they didn't. More guys are going to get sold off it appears, MLBN last night said they were hearing reports that Heath Bell is next.

Wonder if Ozzie likes managing kids because that's what he's going to be left with.

(And history shows how Ozzie loves that! :D:)

Lip

DSpivack
07-25-2012, 12:45 PM
The Marlins needed to make a big splash this year...they didn't. More guys are going to get sold off it appears, MLBN last night said they were hearing reports that Heath Bell is next.

Wonder if Ozzie likes managing kids because that's what he's going to be left with.

(And history shows how Ozzie loves that! :D:)

Lip

The Marlins might want Heath Bell to be next, but with his contract, I don't know if they can trade him.

CPditka
07-25-2012, 01:16 PM
I really hope that Showtime covers the trading deadline, and specifically the Hanley deal in detail....and not sugar coat it.

JB98
07-25-2012, 01:19 PM
The Marlins might want Heath Bell to be next, but with his contract, I don't know if they can trade him.

Not to mention, he has pitched poorly. Even without considering the contract, who would want him?

TheOldRoman
07-25-2012, 01:25 PM
Not to mention, he has pitched poorly. Even without considering the contract, who would want him?Without the contract I'm sure a number of teams would take him. Actually, that would be a KW type of move, buying low on a guy who had sucess before. However, I doubt the Sox would consider taking Bell now unless they gave up barely anything and the Marlins paid all but $4 mil or so of his remaining deal. I don't know what the heck they are going to do with Bell, but LOL regardless.

WhiteSox5187
07-25-2012, 01:28 PM
Dealing Hanley and Stanton would be a terrible move. I cant believe how little they got back for Hanley. I guess that Carl Crawford rumor over the summer might have had some legs.

Dealing Stanton would be dumb but Hanley has been trending downward the past two years now and has had an attitude problem for awhile as well.

Funny how many of those "overpayed and underperforming" players revert back to their career norms as soon as KW and JR got the sense to toss Ozzie out with the rest of the garbage. Coincidence, though, I'm sure.

It was right to fire Ozzie and I kind of understand why it is easy to pin point Dunn and Rios' problems on him, but you know, Rios had a pretty good 2010 and that was under Ozzie. Just two years ago the White Sox won 88 games with Ozzie as manager and had Thornton and Putz not gone on the DL within a week of each other in late August they might have won a lot more. Dunn obviously struggled and I doubt that Ozzie helped the matter at all but I don't think you can honestly blame all of Dunn's (and Rios') struggles in 2011 on Ozzie. Rios was struggling in 2009 when he was in Toronto, was that Ozzie's fault?

JB98
07-25-2012, 01:37 PM
Without the contract I'm sure a number of teams would take him. Actually, that would be a KW type of move, buying low on a guy who had sucess before. However, I doubt the Sox would consider taking Bell now unless they gave up barely anything and the Marlins paid all but $4 mil or so of his remaining deal. I don't know what the heck they are going to do with Bell, but LOL regardless.

Well, I disagree. Most closers have a short shelf life, and I think Bell has reached his. There's a lot of evidence that suggests he's done. I suppose it's possible he's having a bad year because he's trying to justify the contract. If that's true, then I'm wrong. But I wouldn't want him even if the Marlins paid the whole damn contract.

In any case, like many Sox fans, I'm enjoying seeing Ozzie's world crumble around him. From what I've seen of the Marlins, they just make tons of mistakes -- much like the Sox teams of the last few years.

At Wrigley last week, Reed Johnson hit a ground ball down the third-base line that Hanley Ramirez made a complete half-ass effort on. It should have been an out. It turned out to be a double. Ramirez is a dog, and I don't blame the Marlins for sending his ass away. That said, they need to send their manager away also. Ozzie needs a veteran team to have a chance. He doesn't have the temperament to be patient with a rebuilding project.

Frankly, I'm not sure Ozzie will get another chance to manage after he leaves Miami. He's really not a good enough manager to justify all the crap that goes along with him. It isn't his strategies that are the problem, although I'm not always fond of those either. These days, managing is about creating an environment that is conducive to winning. I'm not sure Ozzie knows how to do that anymore.

WhiteSox5187
07-25-2012, 01:41 PM
Well, I disagree. Most closers have a short shelf life, and I think Bell has reached his. There's a lot of evidence that suggests he's done. I suppose it's possible he's having a bad year because he's trying to justify the contract. If that's true, then I'm wrong. But I wouldn't want him even if the Marlins paid the whole damn contract.

In any case, like many Sox fans, I'm enjoying seeing Ozzie's world crumble around him. From what I've seen of the Marlins, they just make tons of mistakes -- much like the Sox teams of the last few years.

At Wrigley last week, Reed Johnson hit a ground ball down the third-base line that Hanley Ramirez made a complete half-ass effort on. It should have been an out. It turned out to be a double. Ramirez is a dog, and I don't blame the Marlins for sending his ass away. That said, they need to send their manager away also. Ozzie needs a veteran team to have a chance. He doesn't have the temperament to be patient with a rebuilding project.

Frankly, I'm not sure Ozzie will get another chance to manage after he leaves Miami. He's really not a good enough manager to justify all the crap that goes along with him. It isn't his strategies that are the problem, although I'm not always fond of those either. These days, managing is about creating an environment that is conducive to winning. I'm not sure Ozzie knows how to do that anymore.

That has been a problem with Ramirez for a long time now. Fredi Gonzalez benched him a few times over behavior like that.

jdm2662
07-25-2012, 01:54 PM
That has been a problem with Ramirez for a long time now. Fredi Gonzalez benched him a few times over behavior like that.

Yeah, and didn't Loria over rule him or something in that regards?

I also thought I hear rumors Loria was trying to sell the team now that he has a new stadium. I know with the new Viking stadium, the local government put a clause in the contract stating the state gets 25% of the sale price should the Vikings owner sell after the stadium opens.

Hitmen77
07-25-2012, 02:15 PM
I suspected last year that one of the reasons why Ozzie wanted out was because he didn't see the Sox competing in 2012 with the payroll cuts that were coming. He wanted to manage a Miami team that was going to be a playoff contender thanks to a "new ballpark" spending spree.

So, I'm not shedding any tears over his team falling flat on their face.

Seriously. Though, they're not winning, they're not selling enough tickets, and a bunch of these crazy deals they signed in the off-season are insanely backloaded. Probably going to have to sell off a few pieces to make ends meet.

From top to bottom, the Marlins are a ****ign joke.

Maybe they can trade Mark Buehrle to the Sox for a couple of B-level prospects.

I wonder how the Marlins' attendance this year compares to other inaugural ballpark seasons over the last couple of decades. IIRC, even the lowly Pirates had a nice attendance bump in 2001 when PNC Park opened. The Marlins are currently ranked 12th in the NL in attendance.


It was right to fire Ozzie and I kind of understand why it is easy to pin point Dunn and Rios' problems on him, but you know, Rios had a pretty good 2010 and that was under Ozzie. Just two years ago the White Sox won 88 games with Ozzie as manager and had Thornton and Putz not gone on the DL within a week of each other in late August they might have won a lot more. Dunn obviously struggled and I doubt that Ozzie helped the matter at all but I don't think you can honestly blame all of Dunn's (and Rios') struggles in 2011 on Ozzie. Rios was struggling in 2009 when he was in Toronto, was that Ozzie's fault?

The big problem I had with 2010 is that it was Ozzie's call to turn away Jim Thome who was hoping to come back to the Sox. Instead, Big Jim signed with our division rival for only $1M and he helped power the Twins to a division title. I know there were other factors at play that season, but that was a huge bonehead move to go with Kotsay/Jones instead of Jim Thome and that was on Ozzie.

Well, I disagree. Most closers have a short shelf life, and I think Bell has reached his. There's a lot of evidence that suggests he's done. I suppose it's possible he's having a bad year because he's trying to justify the contract. If that's true, then I'm wrong. But I wouldn't want him even if the Marlins paid the whole damn contract.

In any case, like many Sox fans, I'm enjoying seeing Ozzie's world crumble around him. From what I've seen of the Marlins, they just make tons of mistakes -- much like the Sox teams of the last few years.

At Wrigley last week, Reed Johnson hit a ground ball down the third-base line that Hanley Ramirez made a complete half-ass effort on. It should have been an out. It turned out to be a double. Ramirez is a dog, and I don't blame the Marlins for sending his ass away. That said, they need to send their manager away also. Ozzie needs a veteran team to have a chance. He doesn't have the temperament to be patient with a rebuilding project.

Interesting that, now that Ozzie is gone, the Sox are now playing much more sound fundamental baseball. I really don't know if that's just a coincidence, but I was really getting sick and tired of Ozzie's empty words over the last few years about how the team had to get better at fundamentally. It was all talk and nothing was ever done about it....except heaping praise and admiration on Gardenhire and the Twins, that is.

LITTLE NELL
07-25-2012, 02:17 PM
Some Marlin thoughts;
Hanley has been in a funk all year because of the team moving him to 3B to make room for Reyes.
The Marlins considering they have a new stadium are not drawing all that well, averaging about 28,000 which will probably put them far down the list of first year attendance in a new stadium.
I wonder if Buerhle is having second thoughts about signing with the Marlins and maybe should have stayed with the Sox for less money.

Frater Perdurabo
07-25-2012, 02:59 PM
I wonder if Buerhle is having second thoughts about signing with the Marlins and maybe should have stayed with the Sox for less money.

I wonder if he would request a trade, especially if Ozzie quits/retires/gets himself fired.

Red Barchetta
07-25-2012, 03:03 PM
Some Marlin thoughts;
Hanley has been in a funk all year because of the team moving him to 3B to make room for Reyes.
The Marlins considering they have a new stadium are not drawing all that well, averaging about 28,000 which will probably put them far down the list of first year attendance in a new stadium.
I wonder if Buerhle is having second thoughts about signing with the Marlins and maybe should have stayed with the Sox for less money.

Yep, the Marlins are on track to have the lowest attendance for a new ballpark since the Mariners opened Safeco. Things are not going as planned in Miami. I get the game feeds on local cable and there are a lot of good location empty seats. Ozzie admiring Fidel Castro and then leading an under performing team will not draw fans out of Little Havana. Add the fact that although the ballpark is nicely designed, the interior colors remind me of the Brady Bunch.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomvanriper/2012/07/25/miami-marlins-drawing-fewest-fans-at-a-first-year-ballpark-in-over-a-decade/

Irishsox1
07-25-2012, 03:32 PM
You take a bad owner, mix it with a town that doesn't care add it a little bit of Ozzie and you get the 2012 Miami Marlins, a disaster waiting to happen.

I know what Buherle was thinking signing with Ozzie and Miami but with that back end deal he signed, he's going to get traded either in this off season or half way through next.

palehozenychicty
07-25-2012, 03:38 PM
The Fish have played poorly, but I'm not bitter at Ozzie or going to gloat at his misfortune. I find that childish. For all of his baggage, the team had moments of success. We'll see if Ventura/KW can match it.

Far as Hanley, his deal runs through '14. Dee Brown has great speed and athleticism, but not the tools. If Hanley can't do it here, then he's done.

WhiteSox5187
07-25-2012, 04:06 PM
The big problem I had with 2010 is that it was Ozzie's call to turn away Jim Thome who was hoping to come back to the Sox. Instead, Big Jim signed with our division rival for only $1M and he helped power the Twins to a division title. I know there were other factors at play that season, but that was a huge bonehead move to go with Kotsay/Jones instead of Jim Thome and that was on Ozzie.



Yea, I get that and it bothered me at the time (though I understood where Ozzie was coming from when he said he wanted a guy who could play the field as well so he could rest Konerko more) but really, Kenny is the guy who should have the final word on personnel moves. Ozzie wondered if Thome could get used to the idea of getting limited at bats which was exactly what Minnesota had in mind until Morneau went down. I have a hard time faulting Ozzie for doing what is supposed to be Kenny's job.

spawn
07-25-2012, 04:40 PM
The Fish have played poorly, but I'm not bitter at Ozzie or going to gloat at his misfortune. I find that childish.
Normally, I'd agree. But after the drama with his idiot son, him basically quitting on this team the last couple of years, and his burning of bridges on his way out the door, I'm going to enjoy watching him fail.

LITTLE NELL
07-25-2012, 05:53 PM
I wonder if he would request a trade, especially if Ozzie quits/retires/gets himself fired.

I'd want out because of Ozzie. To tell you the truth I was really surprised that Mark signed with the Marlins and not some other team. I figured maybe Mark had enough of the Ozzie Circus.

doublem23
07-25-2012, 06:24 PM
I'd want out because of Ozzie. To tell you the truth I was really surprised that Mark signed with the Marlins and not some other team. I figured maybe Mark had enough of the Ozzie Circus.

Money talks.

Normally, I'd agree. But after the drama with his idiot son, him basically quitting on this team the last couple of years, and his burning of bridges on his way out the door, I'm going to enjoy watching him fail.

Same here. I've rarely wished ill about someone on their way out, I had no hard feelings for Manuel, Bevington (though, I did think he was an idiot), or almost every player whose time has come. But Ozzie's a different case. His combination of being an insufferable idiot coupled with his inability to, you know, manage good really ended up rubbing me the wrong way. I have no problem admitting that while watching the Sox play good baseball almost immediately after canning his ass, the sprinkles on the cake is watching the Marlins sink like the Titanic.

Lip Man 1
07-25-2012, 06:35 PM
JDM:

There are rumors that Loria boosted the payroll because he thought the team could win and with the new stadium it would raise the asking price for the franchise through the roof. Apparently if the rumors are true, he wants to unload the Marlins then buy the Mets.

Lip

WhiteSox5187
07-25-2012, 06:44 PM
JDM:

There are rumors that Loria boosted the payroll because he thought the team could win and with the new stadium it would raise the asking price for the franchise through the roof. Apparently if the rumors are true, he wants to unload the Marlins then buy the Mets.

Lip

The fact that Selig would allow him to buy another franchise is horrifying.

thomas35forever
07-25-2012, 07:38 PM
I find it just laughable that Ozzie has found himself in this situation. Could it be karma that the Marlins are trading everyone away and the Sox are contending for their division? Reaching the postseason in his first year away from the club would be the ultimate comeuppance.

ChiSoxFann
07-25-2012, 07:50 PM
I'd want out because of Ozzie. To tell you the truth I was really surprised that Mark signed with the Marlins and not some other team. I figured maybe Mark had enough of the Ozzie Circus.


I believe Mark liked Ozzie because he let his kids and family hang out in the clubhouse. Mark and Ozzie seemed pretty close and I think it was the combo of contract length, money and familiarity with Ozzie that led Mark to Miami. I really doubt Mark finishes that contract in Florida though.

Frater Perdurabo
07-25-2012, 08:28 PM
Isn't Buehrle's deal back-loaded? If so, they either will have to dump him for next to nothing, or send a bunch of money with him. Also, do we know if he negotiated any kind of full or partial no trade clause?

DSpivack
07-25-2012, 08:38 PM
Isn't Buehrle's deal back-loaded? If so, they either will have to dump him for next to nothing, or send a bunch of money with him. Also, do we know if he negotiated any kind of full or partial no trade clause?

$6 million in 2012, $11 million in 2013, $18 million in 2014, $19 million in 2015. No mention of a no-trade clause, so I assume there is none.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/?page_id=82

doublem23
07-25-2012, 08:39 PM
Isn't Buehrle's deal back-loaded? If so, they either will have to dump him for next to nothing, or send a bunch of money with him. Also, do we know if he negotiated any kind of full or partial no trade clause?

It's ri-****ing-diculously backloaded...

2012 - $6 M
2013 - $11 M
2014 - $18 M
2015 - $19 M

Seems to be the little trick they came up with. FWIW, here's Jose Reyes' deal:

2012 - $10 M
2013 - $10 M
2014 - $16 M
2015 - $22 M
2016 - $22 M
2017 - $22 M
2018 - $22 M team option

They're going to be paying Reyes and Buehrle $41 M alone in 2015.

doublem23
07-25-2012, 08:40 PM
$6 million in 2012, $11 million in 2013, $18 million in 2014, $19 million in 2015. No mention of a no-trade clause, so I assume there is none.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/?page_id=82

They wouldn't need to include one because Mark is a 10/5 player, right?

Frater Perdurabo
07-25-2012, 08:40 PM
$6 million in 2012, $11 million in 2013, $18 million in 2014, $19 million in 2015. No mention of a no-trade clause, so I assume there is none.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/?page_id=82

Ouch. If the Marlins want to unload that 2014/2015 salary, they will have to eat a bunch of it.

Frater Perdurabo
07-25-2012, 08:41 PM
They wouldn't need to include one because Mark is a 10/5 player, right?

Wouldn't the "five" only kick in once he's spent five years with the Marlins?

DSpivack
07-25-2012, 08:42 PM
They wouldn't need to include one because Mark is a 10/5 player, right?

No, because while he has been in the league for 10 years, he won't have been with the same team for 5 years.

Frater Perdurabo
07-25-2012, 08:43 PM
No, because while he has been in the league for 10 years, he won't have been with the same team for 5 years.

I think the clock for the "five" resets when the player changes teams.

doublem23
07-25-2012, 08:45 PM
I think the clock for the "five" resets when the player changes teams.

Yeah, I think you guys are right. I don't know why, I had always thought once a player earned 10/5 rights, he had them forever. Looks like I learned something new today.

:tiphat:

TheFrisbee
07-25-2012, 10:18 PM
Interesting that, now that Ozzie is gone, the Sox are now playing much more sound fundamental baseball. I really don't know if that's just a coincidence, but I was really getting sick and tired of Ozzie's empty words over the last few years about how the team had to get better at fundamentally. It was all talk and nothing was ever done about it....except heaping praise and admiration on Gardenhire and the Twins, that is.

That Twins affection had known no bounds. The comment after a game where Cuddyer had stolen 3 bases (seriously, CUDDYDER! what the ****?), essentially saying there is nothing you can do about that, was just ludicrous.

During spring training with the Marlins, Ozzie was in an article for a magazine. While with the journalist and in his golf cart, he pointed out to the fielding drills the Marlins were doing, saying how useless they are, that they all know how to do the drills, what's the point in the practice, saying it was "eyewash" and would not change a team's performance (paraphrasing). I would assume he put that same train of thought to Sox spring trainings.

Now, you have Ventura and new additions to the coaching staff, who stressed the fundamentals from the start, and has the team do fielding practice before every series. Practicing what he preached.

With essentially that same team, the Sox are one of the most sound defensive teams in baseball. I find it no coincidence. Hell, even Ramirez, who was known to have loads of bone-headed mistakes, seems to have less this year.

WLL1855
07-25-2012, 10:47 PM
It's ri-****ing-diculously backloaded...

2012 - $6 M
2013 - $11 M
2014 - $18 M
2015 - $19 M

Seems to be the little trick they came up with. FWIW, here's Jose Reyes' deal:

2012 - $10 M
2013 - $10 M
2014 - $16 M
2015 - $22 M
2016 - $22 M
2017 - $22 M
2018 - $22 M team option

They're going to be paying Reyes and Buehrle $41 M alone in 2015.

Judging by when those deals escalate, I'd say Loria's exit window for owning the team is no later than 2014.

Yahoo! had a pretty scathing article about Loria's business practices today as well.

Lip Man 1
07-26-2012, 12:11 AM
Selig and Loria are tight so I assume he can getaway with just about anything legal (of course he is being investigated by authorities because of the way the stadium was finaced if memory serves...)

Lip

Hitmen77
07-26-2012, 12:56 PM
Yea, I get that and it bothered me at the time (though I understood where Ozzie was coming from when he said he wanted a guy who could play the field as well so he could rest Konerko more) but really, Kenny is the guy who should have the final word on personnel moves. Ozzie wondered if Thome could get used to the idea of getting limited at bats which was exactly what Minnesota had in mind until Morneau went down. I have a hard time faulting Ozzie for doing what is supposed to be Kenny's job.

The decision was supposedly at Ozzie's insistence. How can he make such a stand and then have people say he has no fault in the matter whatsoever? Even if it was Kenny's fault for letting Ozzie have the final say in the matter, that doesn't totally let Ozzie off the hook IMO. They were both guilty of letting that happen.

I really don't want to re-hash 2010 either. It's done. But, if someone is going to mention that season only in a positive way for Ozzie, I think we should mention the entire picture of things that went on that season.

Hitmen77
07-26-2012, 01:06 PM
Yep, the Marlins are on track to have the lowest attendance for a new ballpark since the Mariners opened Safeco. Things are not going as planned in Miami. I get the game feeds on local cable and there are a lot of good location empty seats. Ozzie admiring Fidel Castro and then leading an under performing team will not draw fans out of Little Havana. Add the fact that although the ballpark is nicely designed, the interior colors remind me of the Brady Bunch.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomvanriper/2012/07/25/miami-marlins-drawing-fewest-fans-at-a-first-year-ballpark-in-over-a-decade/

As the article explains, the Mariners moved to Safeco in the middle of the 1999 season. That's why their new ballpark attendance totals were low that year. It sounds like you have to go back to 1982 and the Twins moving to the Metrodome to find such low attendance numbers at a new ballpark. IMO, 1982 isn't even comparable to today - it was an entirely different world in terms of MLB attendance back then. Remember, back then neither Chicago team ever drew more than 2 million people in a season.

I wonder how the Marlins lack of ticket sales success even in the new ballpark's first season will affect any chance of the Rays ever getting a new stadium built in Florida. You can't blame all of the Marlins' low turnout on the team's poor play. They had small crowds even when they were within a game or two of first place back in early June.

TheVulture
07-27-2012, 01:55 AM
This White Sox team is basically the same team Ozzie managed, minus their ace from last season (Buehrle) along with Danks being gone most of the season, in the same crappy division, and the team is in first place.


As much as I resent Ozzie after last year, I have to point out adding to the rotation two young pitchers who have more or less dominated the American League probably didn't hurt the turn around process. The bullpen is basically completely revamped as well, then you have De Aza and Viciedo in the OF with Rios moved back to right. There's some significant differences in this team's makeup.

That said, I think it's obvious Ventura is doing a fantastic job and the Sox are playing some pretty tight baseball.

fusillirob1983
07-27-2012, 08:03 AM
The Marlins' fall is quite surprising to me. They never recovered from Ozzie's Castro episode. I had them contending for the second Wild Card at the minimum, even with that thin rotation. There's too much ability for that roster to be struggling at this level.

For the Dodgers to get Hanley at that price means his stock is at the lowest point. His career is in the balance right now. He needs to step up.

Although they don't have 3 number 1 or 2 starters like the Nats, I'd say the rotation of Buehrle, Zambrano, Johnson, Sanchez and Nolasco they've had all season was probably one of the deepest rotations at the beginning of the season. But yes, I agree, at minimum I had them pegged for a Wild Card spot.

JB98
07-27-2012, 01:36 PM
As much as I resent Ozzie after last year, I have to point out adding to the rotation two young pitchers who have more or less dominated the American League probably didn't hurt the turn around process. The bullpen is basically completely revamped as well, then you have De Aza and Viciedo in the OF with Rios moved back to right. There's some significant differences in this team's makeup.

That said, I think it's obvious Ventura is doing a fantastic job and the Sox are playing some pretty tight baseball.

The Sox could have and should have done that last year after Quentin went down. But the former manager was in love with Juan Pierre.

tstrike2000
07-27-2012, 07:15 PM
Normally, I'd agree. But after the drama with his idiot son, him basically quitting on this team the last couple of years, and his burning of bridges on his way out the door, I'm going to enjoy watching him fail.

It's unfortunate, too, as there was a time Ozzie was able to motivate his players, but that time has passed. He's regressed as a manager with his attitude and the toxic environment that goes along with hit. The days of the profanity laced tirades got old by '07. Plus, the cycle of not nurturing younger talent, playing guys out of position, and his preference toward overplaying mediocre veterans didn't help his cause. Nobody feels sorry for him or the mess in Florida. The owner and Ozzie did it to themselves.

Hanley Ramirez is an extremely talented bum. Maybe Mattingly and the Dodgers can right his ship, something Ozzie has proven time and time again that he cannot do.