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View Full Version : Ron Santo in the Hall of Fame.


WLL1855
07-22-2012, 07:26 PM
So I guess we can expect a few Sox players not named Frank Thomas to be enshrined here in the next decade or so?

SephClone89
07-22-2012, 07:30 PM
This "conversation" again?

WLL1855
07-22-2012, 07:45 PM
Sorry. I needed a little cheap therapy. My stomach is full to bursting of all the BS I've swallowed this week.

russ99
07-22-2012, 08:18 PM
Sadly this is yet another entry in the Hall of Very Good.

And if sentimentality is part of the deal, then Minnie Minoso deserves to be in the Hall of Very Good too.

Also, unbelievably disgusted with any mention of the Sox on Santo's hall of fame plaque. That's a slap in the face to any Sox fan of that era.

Frontman
07-22-2012, 08:44 PM
Santo deserved the Hall, but didn't get there in his lifetime due to his arrogance and treatment of both fellow players and reporters of his era. The gesture to put him there posthumously was a big middle finger back at Ron for his rudeness, and his shilling to get there before his death.

I will say it was a nice touch for the Cubs to take the field today with a "heel click" as a way to acknowledge Santo today.

SephClone89
07-22-2012, 08:44 PM
Santo deserved the Hall, but didn't get there in his lifetime due to his arrogance and treatment of both fellow players and reporters of his era. The gesture to put him there posthumously was a big middle finger back at Ron for his rudeness, and his shilling to get there before his death.

I will say it was a nice touch for the Cubs to take the field today with a "heel click" as a way to acknowledge Santo today.

Pretty spot on.

Brian26
07-22-2012, 08:49 PM
I will say it was a nice touch for the Cubs to take the field today with a "heel click" as a way to acknowledge Santo today.

If only Hector Villanueva still played for the Cubs.....

Sigh.

SephClone89
07-22-2012, 09:03 PM
I'm still waiting for the "Pizza Man" posts.

WLL1855
07-22-2012, 09:20 PM
I will say it was a nice touch for the Cubs to take the field today with a "heel click" as a way to acknowledge Santo today.

I thought it was nice for the Cubs to take a brutal loss to a rival as a way to acknowledge Santo. Different strokes for different folks.

Lip Man 1
07-22-2012, 09:31 PM
To get to WLL's original point the Chicago Baseball Museum is going to do some events and hold some press conferences before Billy Pierce goes up again before the Veterans Committee in 2014. They are going to try to raise his profile to the voters.

Other former Sox players who I think certainly merit hall consideration are Minoso, John and Katt.

Lip

Golden Sox
07-22-2012, 09:37 PM
Before the 1974 season the White Sox had the misfortune of trading Steve Swisher and Steve Stone for Ron Santo. They then signed him to a two year contract. He made more money playing for the White Sox than he did for the Cubs. The White Sox ownership welcomed him thinking he would add something to a White Sox lineup that included Allen, Melton and Henderson. The White Sox even agreed to sell Ron Santos Pro Pizza at Comiskey Park. He responded by hitting a total of 5 home runs and batting 2:21 in 1974 for the White Sox. He was so bad the White Sox benched him the final month of the season.Santo discovered that those cheap Wrigley Field home runs were just long outs at Comiskey Park. He then announced his retirement after the season and didn't come back for his second year of the contract. Sure enough, when it was all over for him he then blamed White Sox manager Chuck Tanner for his lack of success in 1974. He spent his whole career blaming someone else for his lack of success. I wasn't surprised when he blamed Tanner for his lousy year with the White Sox. By popular demand the White Sox then stopped selling Ron Santos Pro Pizza at Comiskey Park which also upset him. Shortly after that, his pizza company went out of business. Knowing him he probably blamed the White Sox ownership for his company going out of business. By the way, his pizza was absolutely awful.His pizza was as bad as he was in 1974 playing for the White Sox.

Noneck
07-22-2012, 10:02 PM
So I guess we can expect a few Sox players not named Frank Thomas to be enshrined here in the next decade or so?

Unfortunately the only former Sox players I see getting in the Hall in the near future are Thomas, Thome and Griffey.

DSpivack
07-22-2012, 10:47 PM
To get to WLL's original point the Chicago Baseball Museum is going to do some events and hold some press conferences before Billy Pierce goes up again before the Veterans Committee in 2014. They are going to try to raise his profile to the voters.

Other former Sox players who I think certainly merit hall consideration are Minoso, John and Katt.

Lip

I agree on Pierce. I think Tim Raines is a better candidate than any of the latter three.

MeteorsSox4367
07-23-2012, 12:02 AM
Unfortunately the only former Sox players I see getting in the Hall in the near future are Thomas, Thome and Griffey.

Agreed. However, I think only Thomas will be wearing a Sox cap. Griffey will go in as a Mariner and I would think Thome will go in as an Indian.

Noneck
07-23-2012, 01:12 AM
Agreed. However, I think only Thomas will be wearing a Sox cap. Griffey will go in as a Mariner and I would think Thome will go in as an Indian.

For sure, John and Kaat were mentioned but even if they do get in, I doubt it would be with a Sox hat.

DrCrawdad
07-23-2012, 07:10 AM
Santo in the Hall of Fame? Meh. Glad the whining is over about Santo not being in the Hall of Fame is over, finally.

That mighty 1969 Cubbie team, lead by four Hall of Fame players - Ernie Banks, Fergie Jenkins, Billie Williams, Santo and managed by Hall of Famer, Leo Durocher - they sure were an awesome team weren't they? Historic!

BTW anyone know if Don Young as at the induction ceremony?

kittle42
07-23-2012, 10:24 AM
That mighty 1969 Cubbie team, lead by four Hall of Fame players - Ernie Banks, Fergie Jenkins, Billie Williams, Santo and managed by Hall of Famer, Leo Durocher - they sure were an awesome team weren't they? Historic!

Ha! Great point. How weird. 5 hall of famers manage absolutely nothing. Perfect Cubdom!

Golden Sox
07-23-2012, 10:54 AM
The Cubs were in a pennant race with the Mets in 1969. The Cubs played the Mets in a big game that summer in New York. Late in the game the Mets hit a fly ball to the outfield and Cubs player/outfielder Don Young dropped the ball. The Mets won the game because of Youngs play. After the the game Santo (The Team Captain) ripped into his teammate for dropping the ball. Much to my great delight the Chicago media dumped all over Santo for dumping on his teammate like he did. There was such an uproar over the incident that the Cubs released Don Young after that. The White Sox are in the hunt for the playoffs this year. If one of the White Sox fielders drops a ball and blows the game do you think the Captain of the White Sox (Paul Konerko) would dump all over him like Santo did with Don Young?

SephClone89
07-23-2012, 11:34 AM
The Cubs were in a pennant race with the Mets in 1969. The Cubs played the Mets in a big game that summer in New York. Late in the game the Mets hit a fly ball to the outfield and Cubs player/outfielder Don Young dropped the ball. The Mets won the game because of Youngs play. After the the game Santo (The Team Captain) ripped into his teammate for dropping the ball. Much to my great delight the Chicago media dumped all over Santo for dumping on his teammate like he did. There was such an uproar over the incident that the Cubs released Don Young after that. The White Sox are in the hunt for the playoffs this year. If one of the White Sox fielders drops a ball and blows the game do you think the Captain of the White Sox (Paul Konerko) would dump all over him like Santo did with Don Young?

We get it. You hate Santo.

amsteel
07-23-2012, 11:39 AM
Looks at Santo's numbers.

Looks at Aramis Ramirez's numbers.

Shrugs shoulders

PatK
07-23-2012, 11:47 AM
Santo deserved the Hall, but didn't get there in his lifetime due to his arrogance and treatment of both fellow players and reporters of his era. The gesture to put him there posthumously was a big middle finger back at Ron for his rudeness, and his shilling to get there before his death.



I'll never forget a couple of years ago when he moaned about the players using the pink bats on Mother's Day before proceeding to promote his own charity.

DrCrawdad
07-23-2012, 12:56 PM
We get it. You hate Santo.

For me it's not about hating Santo, I don't hate the man. In fact I admire some things about him. I've said in the past that if Santo's numbers warrant him going into the Hall of Fame, fine with me. I just did not care for him at all as a broadcaster. The first requirement in my list for a broadcaster, especially a radio announcer, is the person should be able speak, the person should be able speak in intelligible sentences. Santo could not do that.

palehosepub
07-23-2012, 01:25 PM
The Cubs were in a pennant race with the Mets in 1969. The Cubs played the Mets in a big game that summer in New York. Late in the game the Mets hit a fly ball to the outfield and Cubs player/outfielder Don Young dropped the ball. The Mets won the game because of Youngs play. After the the game Santo (The Team Captain) ripped into his teammate for dropping the ball. Much to my great delight the Chicago media dumped all over Santo for dumping on his teammate like he did. There was such an uproar over the incident that the Cubs released Don Young after that. The White Sox are in the hunt for the playoffs this year. If one of the White Sox fielders drops a ball and blows the game do you think the Captain of the White Sox (Paul Konerko) would dump all over him like Santo did with Don Young?

My father was actually a fan of both the White Sox and Cubs but he always brought up the Don Young incident about Santo, I vaguely remember it as I was only 7 at the time. I just read Dick Allens biography "Crash" and Santo was the one player Allen called out as a poor teammate who was very hard on the rookies (obviously Allen also had his own teammate issues). I just looked up Don Young on baseball-reference.com and see that he is 67 years old and was from Aurora Co and went to Aurora Colorado high school.... kind of a weird concidence with the movie shooting incident.....

Lip Man 1
07-23-2012, 01:32 PM
Pale:

Allen never had any teammate issues save for Frank Thomas in the interviews is a six part series on Dick done by Craig Wright of SABR Magazine. He talks with numerous teammates and none had anything negative to say about him.

At the 1972 reunion recently people from Melton to May to Gossage had story after story about how Dick was a good teammate...I don't know if this was your intention but to lump in Santo and Dick together in that regard is a major mistake.

Carlos May had a story in my interview with him about Allen and Santo if you are interested.

Santo was a bad player for the Sox and worse he was a bad teammate. It was a mistake the Sox getting him but part of that was outside of Roland's jurisdiction. Allyn wanted him for his "promotional / ticket selling" value.

That was flawed logic.

Lip

palehosepub
07-23-2012, 01:47 PM
Pale:

Allen never had any teammate issues save for Frank Thomas in the interviews is a six part series on Dick done by Craig Wright of SABR Magazine. He talks with numerous teammates and none had anything negative to say about him.

At the 1972 reunion recently people from Melton to May to Gossage had story after story about how Dick was a good teammate...I don't know if this was your intention but to lump in Santo and Dick together in that regard is a major mistake.

Carlos May had a story in my interview with him about Allen and Santo if you are interested.

Santo was a bad player for the Sox and worse he was a bad teammate. It was a mistake the Sox getting him but part of that was outside of Roland's jurisdiction. Allyn wanted him for his "promotional / ticket selling" value.

That was flawed logic.

Lip

Lip-
No - sorry that was not my intention to lump Allen in with Santo, there were direct quotes from Allen in "Crash" about Santo and how he treated young players and Dick thought that behavior was wrong. Dick was certainly a controversial player who got "called out" about the times he left the team or "retired" or didn't take batting practice etc which gave the perception that Allen was all about himself but I agree that, in general, his teammates thought Dick was a good teammate.

kittle42
07-23-2012, 02:23 PM
For me it's not about hating Santo, I don't hate the man. In fact I admire some things about him. I've said in the past that if Santo's numbers warrant him going into the Hall of Fame, fine with me. I just did not care for him at all as a broadcaster. The first requirement in my list for a broadcaster, especially a radio announcer, is the person should be able speak, the person should be able speak in intelligible sentences. Santo could not do that.

Amen. There are some bad broadcasters out there (and thank you, MLB.com app for bringing them all to me over the radio!), but Ron Santo was so, so detestable.

DSpivack
07-23-2012, 02:28 PM
Amen. There are some bad broadcasters out there (and thank you, MLB.com app for bringing them all to me over the radio!), but Ron Santo was so, so detestable.

At least Santo was just elected as a player, his broadcasting career is immaterial when it comes to his HOF induction.

Tim McCarver, OTOH, was just inducted into the HOF as a broadcaster. :scratch:

Frontman
07-23-2012, 05:46 PM
I'll never forget a couple of years ago when he moaned about the players using the pink bats on Mother's Day before proceeding to promote his own charity.

Santo stayed around the game longer than he should of. He wasn't interested in staying up on the game as a whole, but just commentary about the Cubs that particular day.

TomBradley72
07-23-2012, 06:00 PM
The Cubs were in a pennant race with the Mets in 1969. The Cubs played the Mets in a big game that summer in New York. Late in the game the Mets hit a fly ball to the outfield and Cubs player/outfielder Don Young dropped the ball. The Mets won the game because of Youngs play. After the the game Santo (The Team Captain) ripped into his teammate for dropping the ball. Much to my great delight the Chicago media dumped all over Santo for dumping on his teammate like he did. There was such an uproar over the incident that the Cubs released Don Young after that. The White Sox are in the hunt for the playoffs this year. If one of the White Sox fielders drops a ball and blows the game do you think the Captain of the White Sox (Paul Konerko) would dump all over him like Santo did with Don Young?

This was a very telling incident when it comes to Santo's overall character- Comcast recently had a special on Ernie Banks. During the interview- Banks specfically referenced this incident and the damage it did to the overall team chemistry that had helped the Cubs lead the NL East most of the year. He basically stated that they never got it back.

DrCrawdad
07-23-2012, 08:20 PM
This was a very telling incident when it comes to Santo's overall character- Comcast recently had a special on Ernie Banks. During the interview- Banks specfically referenced this incident and the damage it did to the overall team chemistry that had helped the Cubs lead the NL East most of the year. He basically stated that they never got it back.

It's telling too when you consider who said it, Ernie Banks. Banks is not exactly known for being negative. In fact he's probably saying now how the Cubbies are on the verge of a winning the NL Central (this season).

DrCrawdad
07-23-2012, 08:24 PM
Santo stayed around the game longer than he should of. He wasn't interested in staying up on the game as a whole, but just commentary about the Cubs that particular day.

Even that is generous. Santo rarely added anything insightful and rarer still was a coherent thought. Santo added color to a broadcast by guttural belches.

WhiteSox5187
07-23-2012, 08:26 PM
Even that is generous. Santo rarely added anything insightful and rarer still was a coherent thought. Santo added color to a broadcast by guttural belches.

I thought he was fun to listen to when the Cubs were losing. That was fun.

Zisk77
07-23-2012, 11:24 PM
I thought he was fun to listen to when the Cubs were losing. That was fun.

So you are saying he was always fun to listen to.:redneck

SI1020
07-24-2012, 02:39 PM
The Cubs were in a pennant race with the Mets in 1969. The Cubs played the Mets in a big game that summer in New York. Late in the game the Mets hit a fly ball to the outfield and Cubs player/outfielder Don Young dropped the ball. The Mets won the game because of Youngs play. After the the game Santo (The Team Captain) ripped into his teammate for dropping the ball. Much to my great delight the Chicago media dumped all over Santo for dumping on his teammate like he did. There was such an uproar over the incident that the Cubs released Don Young after that. The White Sox are in the hunt for the playoffs this year. If one of the White Sox fielders drops a ball and blows the game do you think the Captain of the White Sox (Paul Konerko) would dump all over him like Santo did with Don Young? I remember the game as well as one can remember an event watched over 40 years ago. Ken Boswell lead off the bottom of the 9th against Fergie Jenkins who was cruising with a 3-1 lead. Don Young was playing too deep and could not get to a soft liner hit by Boswell that fell in front of him, resulting in a cheap double. With one out Donn Clendenon sent a drive to the wall in left-center that Young caught reaching across his body, then dropped as he crashed into the wall. Jenkins then proceeded to melt down. A double by Cleon Jones, an intentional walk, a ground out, and a game winning single by Ed Kranepool followed. The crowd at Shea went absolutely nuts. It was a crushing loss and Young was ripped by Santo and Jenkins after the game. The Cubs would lose the next game with the Mets before salvaging the last game of the series. Four days later the Cubs began another big three game set with the Mets, this time in the friendly confines. Bill Hands shut out Tom Seaver and the Mets in the opener 1-0 and then dropped the last 2 games. It was then July 16 and the Cubs were still four games up. By August 12-16 they had extended the lead to 9 games. The rest as they say is history. Don Young was a quiet, shy, introspective man and the game in Shea did him no favors. He was known as a good fielder with a suspect bat. He played for the Cubs Tacoma farm team in 1970 and was out of baseball after the following year.

WLL1855
07-24-2012, 10:39 PM
I'll clarify a bit from my initial post. Two guys came to mind when I created this thread: Billy Pierce and Harold Baines.

In short: Billy, yes. Harold, (begrudgingly) no.

Now, if both of them found their way to Cooperstown I wouldn't feel bad about if for a second.

To each their own. That's how I see it.

SOXSINCE'70
07-26-2012, 11:24 AM
Before the 1974 season the White Sox had the misfortune of trading Steve Swisher and Steve Stone for Ron Santo. They then signed him to a two year contract. He made more money playing for the White Sox than he did for the Cubs. The White Sox ownership welcomed him thinking he would add something to a White Sox lineup that included Allen, Melton and Henderson. The White Sox even agreed to sell Ron Santos Pro Pizza at Comiskey Park. He responded by hitting a total of 5 home runs and batting 2:21 in 1974 for the White Sox. He was so bad the White Sox benched him the final month of the season.Santo discovered that those cheap Wrigley Field home runs were just long outs at Comiskey Park. He then announced his retirement after the season and didn't come back for his second year of the contract. Sure enough, when it was all over for him he then blamed White Sox manager Chuck Tanner for his lack of success in 1974. He spent his whole career blaming someone else for his lack of success. I wasn't surprised when he blamed Tanner for his lousy year with the White Sox. By popular demand the White Sox then stopped selling Ron Santos Pro Pizza at Comiskey Park which also upset him. Shortly after that, his pizza company went out of business. Knowing him he probably blamed the White Sox ownership for his company going out of business. By the way, his pizza was absolutely awful.His pizza was as bad as he was in 1974 playing for the White Sox.

I agree.And with the HOF now becoming the "Hall Of OK Or Very Good",I would like to nominate the following former Sox for IMMEDIATE induction:

Jorge Orta
Jim Essian
Carlos May
Dan Pasqua
Bill Melton
Jim Morrison
Alex Fernandez
Melido Perez
Ken Berry
Jim Landis

Nellie_Fox
07-26-2012, 02:39 PM
I agree.And with the HOF now becoming the "Hall Of OK Or Very Good",I would like to nominate the following former Sox for IMMEDIATE induction:

Jorge Orta
Jim Essian
Carlos May
Dan Pasqua
Bill Melton
Jim Morrison
Alex Fernandez
Melido Perez
Ken Berry
Jim LandisReductio ad absurdum

SOXSINCE'70
07-26-2012, 02:53 PM
Reductio ad absurdum

It is absurd,isn't it?