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View Full Version : Dealing tough says Williams


Jerry_Manuel
07-26-2002, 10:03 AM
From the SouthTown:

The major problem with moving players is that most teams aren't dealing for players with multiyear deals. Additionally, pitchers and young position players have been in high demand in return for high-priced vets.

" 'Tough' is not the word," Williams said when asked if it's been difficult to consummate deals leading up to the coming Wednesday's non-waiver trade deadline. "It's been tough times five. We don't have Yankee money or Dodger money. Those are the facts. Every time I say that, I hear that I'm crying broke, but those are the facts.

"If we do decide to make another move here soon, then we'll reshuffle the deck."

PaleHoseGeorge
07-26-2002, 10:08 AM
Dealing is always tough for the intellectually-challenged.

If I owned a baseball team, I would be on the blower to my GM right now instructing him to serve up a half-dozen outrageously one-sided deals to the White Sox. Williams is bound to bite on at least one of them.

In fact, my biggest fear would be getting the deal done before somebody else beat me to it or Williams got canned.

:KW
"It's duck season. And I'm the only duck sitting on the pond."

Tragg
07-26-2002, 10:11 AM
I still await his explanation of how he can afford to pay a .220 hitting shortstop 4.5 million a year.

duke of dorwood
07-26-2002, 10:12 AM
Reshuffle what deck? This guy is clearly out of his medication.

:KW

drool

Tragg
07-26-2002, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Indeed, these GMs approach KW believing that he is a naive moron. So they tell him how tough the market is, and don't give an inch. Especially one of the best, like Beane. Instead of waiting a week to get nothing for his players, gutless KW folds.

LongDistanceFan
07-26-2002, 12:19 PM
the pack of wolves are assembling right now, circling their prey and will eventually pounce on him.

poor, poor, kw is sooo delusional that he can't see this.

poor us for we have to live with this team that he will have assemble.

ISUSoxfan
07-26-2002, 05:14 PM
"If we do decide to make another move here soon, then we'll reshuffle the deck."--KW

It doesn't matter how many times you shuffle, if you're not playing with a full deck, the deal is not going to be even.

RKMeibalane
07-26-2002, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by ISUSoxfan
"If we do decide to make another move here soon, then we'll reshuffle the deck."--KW

It doesn't matter how many times you shuffle, if you're not playing with a full deck, the deal is not going to be even.

Indeed. Williams should not be dealing because he never had much of a hand to begin with. I'm afraid to sit around, waiting to see what he does next. I have a feeling that by this time next week, Frank Thomas, Magglio Ordonez, Paul Konerko, Joe Crede, Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland, Corwin Malone, Joe Borchard, and Willie Harris will be gone. That's what I think of KW and his abilities as a general manager. He sucks and blows at the same time.

cornball
07-26-2002, 08:59 PM
You know i am sooo sick of the talk of money and the excuses we cant aford this guy and that guy.....to be in this business you have to spend money.....

The fact of the matter is most teams that make the playoffs make money....and most of the teams in the playoffs have higher salary than we do......win and the following years attendance will soar....take money to make money...win and your local tv and radio makes more money too....

KW incompetence is a direct reflection of ownership.......the plan of building a team of hitters that cant field with a young pitching staff doesnt work

Pitching and defense wins...period.....we have let the most unearned runs in the league this year.

This team will never win with JR at the top........the teams with the best records have the highest payroll.....do we expect the salaries to be in the top 5....no but this is Chicago....look at the top teams in payroll....8 have winning records...fans support them in droves because they are trying...you cant win a world series in this business with a 50-60MM salary...is it out of line yes but it is true......sorry about the length but this trade pisses me off...and there will be more for sure

soxtalker
07-26-2002, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by cornball
KW incompetence is a direct reflection of ownership.......the plan of building a team of hitters that cant field with a young pitching staff doesnt work

Pitching and defense wins...period.....we have let the most unearned runs in the league this year.


I'm missing something here. I totally agree that pitching and defense are what win, and that these are two areas that we are very much lacking in. What I don't understand is why this is due to JR's being unwilling to spend. He has made it clear that he doesn't want to spend big money on long-term contracts with pitchers. So, I can somewhat see your point on pitching. However, he did stockpile a lot of young pitching prospects as an alternative; that is, he decided to build from within.

But what about defense? That was the reason Royce Clayton was brought in, and JR did pay him a lot of money for several years. There was certainly no question that RC was a hitting star.

I'm not trying to defend JR here. Yes, I wish that he spent more money. But I think that there are some real fundamental problems in the coaching at all levels. Defense doesn't seem to be emphasized and, well, the return on our pitching investment doesn't seem to be too good. Maybe a lot of this does come down to money -- i.e., maybe JR doesn't spend enough money on his coaching staff (at all levels). On the other hand, it may just be that he has hired GM's who haven't been smart enough to do so.

WhiteSoxWinner
07-26-2002, 10:53 PM
"Tough is not the word" - KW

Yeah, and Jerry Krause wept when he traded Charles Oakley. Blah blah blah.

How come the A's, which, if I am not mistaken, was in financial dire straits and was most recently mentioned as a candidate for combination with other teams when that idea was floated, seems to come up with the cash to trade for Jermaine Dye and now Ray Durham? They even could have kept Jason Giambi had they just given him the freakin' no trade clause. How come we can't do the same? I know KW is no Billy Beane, but why are we never the buyer? This sucks...

cornball
07-27-2002, 01:26 PM
Soxtalker i agree with some of what you say, except that you cant have young pitching and players that cant field. Ray, Valentin, and Lee are poor fielders. Valentin is a utility player ala Luis Salazar, and i know he is a favorite here, but he is not a cornerstone...and for sure not a shortstop, full time..and i understand Lee has very few errors, but his range is terrible...You cant bring in pitching prospects each year with poor defense...wont work...the stockpile you talked about never materialized or was traded...

At the same time, look at ESPN.com article from Jason Stark on the labor agreement. Bud Selig has so many contradictions it is scary. He says a minimum salary will be for sure.....in other words salaries will go up...the union is strong and the owner cant tell the truth, if it served them better.

In my view, JR is the blame...the buck stops with him...for KW incompetence (and i have supported him until the Ray Durham deal in exchange for nothing), to all hirings and for handicapping this club. For alienating the fans for 20+ years....with On-TV...to threatening to move...to being a major contributor to the last strike...to white flag I ...etc.....then bitch about attendance

His plan doesn't work, his template is a farce....the point being, don't tell us you want to win and that you can with minimum payroll (recent history is proof, you can't)....sell the team....put people in place that actually know the game...why is everything a science project from the GM on down.

I find it hard to believe he is not making money....and where is he now...why wont he come out of hiding

soxtalker
07-27-2002, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by cornball

In my view, JR is the blame...the buck stops with him...for KW incompetence (and i have supported him until the Ray Durham deal in exchange for nothing), to all hirings and for handicapping this club. For alienating the fans for 20+ years....with On-TV...to threatening to move...to being a major contributor to the last strike...to white flag I ...etc.....then bitch about attendance

His plan doesn't work, his template is a farce....the point being, don't tell us you want to win and that you can with minimum payroll (recent history is proof, you can't)....sell the team....put people in place that actually know the game...why is everything a science project from the GM on down.


Cornball, I think that we probably agree on a lot of these issues. JR is the one to blame. He's saddled us with poor GM's for a long time and made a lot of other errors. (I'd forgotten the On-TV fiasco.) Where I take issue with a lot of posters is the notion that if JR would simply spend more money everything would be fine. Quite frankly, if JR had given KW a $300 million payroll to spend, I don't think that he'd do very well with it. Now, could a team win with the kind of spending constraints that JR puts upon this team? I think that it might be possible, though a "challenge", and teams like the Twins and A's are attempting to do so.

I haven't been happy with KW for quite awhile. I was willing to buy into the youth movement started by the white-flag trade. But I think that the last trade that I really liked was the Wells for Sirotka trade. (I know that most people think that was a horrible trade, but I actually thought that Wells would teach the young pitchers something. And Buerhle used to talk to him all the time.) After that, KW kept trading away our farm system.

You bring up the really critical issue of defense. If you're pursuing a youth movement, I don't understand why you wouldn't make learning defensive fundamentals one of the highest priorities in your farm system. Then again, they haven't really relied upon their minor league system lately for many of their position players.

cornball
07-28-2002, 09:55 AM
I agree with you....the point is...... i think you can be competitive like the A's and Twins with the salaries like they have, if your prospects perform..... but in todays baseball the teams with a real shot of winning it all are.....Yankees, Red Sox, D-backs, Braves, Mariners.....maybe the Dodgers and Cards

And if you notice they are all near the top of the list in salaries.....

JR wants just to be competitive .....not to win it all....to get attendance.......the D-backs after 4 years win it all without benefit to TV money.....their owner wants to win...ours doesnt..

The Marlins proved you can buy a championship in modern times as the Yanks and D-Backs have......but look at all the players with clauses in their contract for which teams they can be traded too......i dont ever recall the Sox being on anyones list...most recent example was this spring Brian Giles.

I agree with you, Soxtalker just fustrated....