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View Full Version : *Official* 7-21 Welcome to Second Place, Population: Us; DET 7 SOX 1 Postgamer


Frater Perdurabo
07-21-2012, 05:30 PM
Not much to say here..

GlassSox
07-21-2012, 05:34 PM
Ditto

happydude
07-21-2012, 05:36 PM
There's something about being continually shut down by Rick Porcello that almost makes me sick to the stomach...and I'm rarely one for hyperbole. I know the guy has a decent sinker and can be trouble when he's on but....why is so consistently on against us? Need to get that game tomorrow; somebody PLEASE hit the damn baseball.

WhiteSox5187
07-21-2012, 05:37 PM
Well here is a bit of good news, when Sale last lost a start it was in May and we looked bad. Then we went on a tear where we went 16-5.

JB98
07-21-2012, 05:37 PM
I think it's kinda funny to see almost 200 guests on the site — presumably people hoping to see a meltdown — and there's really not much melting down going on here.

Porcello is 3-0 with a 1.23 ERA against the Sox this year. I can deal with being shut down by Verlander. Nobody in the league does much against him. But it's clear the Sox need a better or different approach against Porcello at this point. Other teams around the league don't have this much trouble with him.

LITTLE NELL
07-21-2012, 05:37 PM
Walkerball has reared it's ugly head again.

Soxman219
07-21-2012, 05:38 PM
When the Sox are cold, they are ICE COLD. I was wrong, I was overconfident the Sox would sweep them and Detroit was an average team. Hope this slump ends soon, like tomorrow.

DickAllen72
07-21-2012, 05:40 PM
Now that we've shored up our pen with Myers, let's see what good hitting position players KW can obtain to shore up our offense.

Ima_Tigerfan
07-21-2012, 05:42 PM
I don't post much here, but I wanted to stop in and say that for the first few innings of this game, Sale was crazy good looking. He looks like a pitcher that is going to be a keeper, he just needs to build up that endurance a bit, as well as continue improving those pitches.

Good luck the rest of the season.

LITTLE NELL
07-21-2012, 05:44 PM
When the Sox are cold, they are ICE COLD. I was wrong, I was overconfident the Sox would sweep them and Detroit was an average team. Hope this slump ends soon, like tomorrow.

We all knew we had tough schedule after the break, if we can win on Sunday and come home and take at least 2 from Minny we might be OK. We have to get through another 7 day trip and then the schedule should favor us the rest of the way. Tomorrow is a big game, we can't let them sweep us.

PalehosePlanet
07-21-2012, 05:45 PM
After the heartbreaker on Thursday night, exactly what I feared has happened: A mental collapse and a flat out slump.

Rick Porcello: Great against us and absolutely ****ing terrible against everyone else. Another ****ty pitcher that somehow owns us -- frustrating as all hell.

Also our aces layed eggs in this series: 9 runs allowed after two outs is simply ****ty pitching.

And the offense? Wooooweee do they suck right now! Paulie the captain needs to get his head out of his ass and pick it up immediately or this ship will keep sinking.

Blueprint1
07-21-2012, 05:46 PM
Hitting is horrible

DickAllen72
07-21-2012, 05:50 PM
Hitting is horrible
And that is the whole problem in a nutshell. What's the difference if you lose 2-1 or 7-1? You're not going to win much if you're only scoring 1, 2, or 3 runs per game.

The Sox need to acquire some hitting.

arKnaD7
07-21-2012, 05:51 PM
Streaks like this feel like they will never end

guillensdisciple
07-21-2012, 05:51 PM
All the tigers fans over here looking at the board-
Go **** yourself

Tragg
07-21-2012, 05:52 PM
We're a thin team and player have played at high energy - they can't do it forever. We're now in a lull.

Yea we need some offensive help. But our starters are fine. Just find a couple of guys who can spell some of our players. We don't need 2 utility infielders on this team - you don't even need a trade to improve that situation. Ideally, we'd get a guy who can play infield or outfield decently for the defensive replacement, and then get 2 bats. There are many guys in our minors that can out-hit the 3 reserves we have here right now.

guillensdisciple
07-21-2012, 05:53 PM
We're a thin team and player have played at high energy - they can't do it forever. We're now in a lull.

Yea we need some offensive help. But our starters are fine. Just find a couple of guys who can spell some of our players. We don't need 2 utility infielders on this team - you don't even need a trade to improve that situation.

Bring back lilli

Tragg
07-21-2012, 05:54 PM
Bring back lilli
Ugh
But- okay if we DFA Escobar, Hudson and Danks, and bring up 2 hitters. Lilli can play IF and OF.

JB98
07-21-2012, 05:58 PM
Ugh
But- okay if we DFA Escobar, Hudson and Danks, and bring up 2 hitters. Lilli can play IF and OF.

I don't have a problem with Escobar and Danks being on the roster. But I can go along with getting a bench bat to replace Hudson. I'm not sure what Hudson brings to this team.

SteveFakeBlood
07-21-2012, 05:58 PM
Deep down I think he'll come out of it, but I'm really worried about Paulie- he hasn't been the same since that wrist surgery. The batting average sinking was inevitable and realistic, but his power and run production have disappeared. The funny thing is he's still hitting .348 with RISP, so De Aza slumping and Dunn hitting near the Mendoza line have probably effected his lack of RBIs as well, but it's still disturbing.

The fact that our aces were underwhelming against our biggest division rival was disappointing, but I'm still holding out hope that it's a blip rather than a sign of things to come.

Unfortunately, all the usual red flags are there for this to be yet another heartbreaker of a year: - general inconsistency, - question marks at the back end of the rotation, - failure to win against division rivals. On the optimistic side we are only 1/2 a game out. If we win this thing, it's probably going to be in 2008 fashion and it'll be a miserable, stressful rest of the summer/early fall.

~ Steve

kittle42
07-21-2012, 05:59 PM
The board isn't melting down because this isn't anything we (1) didn't expect and (2) haven't seen before.

amsteel
07-21-2012, 06:02 PM
0.5 back in the standings. 10 back in my heart.

Detroit is playing to potential and the Sox are...playing. Nice to see a move for the bullpen not nice to see the second half scoring average dip to 3.0 runs a game.

SOXSINCE'70
07-21-2012, 06:09 PM
:facepalm::darkclouds::chunks:ohno

How's this for starters?

Lip Man 1
07-21-2012, 06:26 PM
Hard to argue with what Kittle said. Maybe the winning streaks they went on were more of a 'fluke' than losing streaks / non-hitting slumps like we're seeing (again...)

Robin's decision to change the rotation didn't work (and I understand his reasoning to be sure...I would have "sacrificed" the Verlander game, he'd won 10 of his last 11 decisions vs. the Sox before Friday and tried to win the Boston game. I just don't believe in changing pitching rotations except for injuries.) and the team has gone into a spiral. Not saying the two are connected but it's happened.

Guess Detroit's a lot better than mediocre.

Porcello = Sabathia = Santana = Verlander...guys the Sox can't beat if the pitcher told them what was coming.

That's five runs total in the last four games and 27 runs total since the break ended.

Things could get really ugly next week having to go to Texas with the offense M.I.A. and this stretch of road games. (Wonder when the last time a team had to play 16 of 19 on the road?)

Steve you're right, like in 2003, 2006, 2010 the Sox seem a piece or an area short. It's frustrating. The circumstances surrounding this franchise would be a lot different if they'd get to the post season more often. We'll see what happens the final nine weeks but the hitting has got to break out of this (although I understand the sentiment of 'if they haven't done it by now, they aren't going to...')

To me the really scary thing is having to rely on Humber tomorrow to not get swept. That's frightening.

I think the Tigers have won now seven of the last eight in Detroit. A place the Sox used to own.

Lip

TDog
07-21-2012, 06:41 PM
There's something about being continually shut down by Rick Porcello that almost makes me sick to the stomach...and I'm rarely one for hyperbole. I know the guy has a decent sinker and can be trouble when he's on but....why is so consistently on against us? Need to get that game tomorrow; somebody PLEASE hit the damn baseball.

The Sox didn't score after the Tigers took the lead, but once again after grabbing the lead, the starting pitcher gave up the lead with three straight two-out hits. If Sale had a couple more scoreless innings in him, instead of two innings where he gave up multiple runs with two out, the Sox would have had a good chance to win today. I was optimistic when Viciedo came through with a two-out RBI to drive in the first, and for quite a while, only runner the Sox put into scoring position today.

The Sox took the lead against Verlander Friday night and Peavy immediately gave it up. The Sox took the lead today and Sale immediately gave it up. The lead was close, but in both cases it wasn't once mistake, it took three consecutive two-out hits.

And all of a sudden, for all the feel good about going to the ballpark with a chance to win because Ozzie Guillen's not around anymore and the hitting isn't handicapped by having Greg Walker as a hitting coach, the 2012 Sox appear to be in danger of looking like 2011 and 2010.

When teams go through hitting slumps, and even the best teams do, the pitching needs to step up. I like Robin Ventura as a manager and generally agree with what he does, but his decision to hold Peavy and Sale back for the Detroit series has backfired. It led to giving up on competing in a game in Boston, and Peavy and Sale didn't give the White Sox even quality starts.

Not that I'm giving up. The Twins thought they put the White Sox away in 2008, and they were wrong. And some of the older posters might remember Yogi Berra and the Phil Linz harmonica incident after the White Sox beat the Yankees in August to take over first place. It's a long season, and even winning teams experience failure along the way.

But the White Sox are going to need to regroup after the walkoff Red Sox loss in a brilliant Quintana start and the two losses in Detroit the way they regrouped after the Dodger walkoff loss in a brilliant Quintana start and two losses against the Cubs.

SCCWS
07-21-2012, 06:42 PM
Bring back lilli

There we go, great idea. The offense is struggling and you suggest getting a caereer .212 hitter. Might as well get Jenks as a closer and then do a Uribe for Beckham. Wonder if Carl Everett has any fuel in the tank.

SCCWS
07-21-2012, 06:46 PM
To me the really scary thing is having to rely on Humber tomorrow to not get swept. That's frightening.

Lip

If not for Humber, they would have got swept in Boston.

Lip Man 1
07-21-2012, 06:49 PM
SCCWS:

Still a scary propostion.

Just wondering...have the Sox seen this Turner kid before?

Lip

PaleHoser
07-21-2012, 07:03 PM
It's July 21st, not September 21st. Two months of baseball left people.

Let's get 'em tomorrow and salvage one.

SBSoxFan
07-21-2012, 07:08 PM
Streaks like this feel like they will never end

And Detroit is hoping their's will never end, but it will.

Lip Man 1
07-21-2012, 07:25 PM
SB:

It probably will (in fact I'd bet on it) but history shows sometimes a team can go off for a long, long period of time winning at an incredible rate.

1983 White Sox (August / September 45-10)
2005 Indians (August / September)
2006 Twins (After the All Star Break for three months)

That's just off the top of my head. Detroit may finally be playing the way they are capable of playing...will see.

Every run Detroit has scored so far in this series has come with two out. That's incredible clutch hitting and incredibly bad pitch selection by the Sox.

Pale: I hope you're right but the trend right now is not good and Detroit has won 6 of the last 8 head to head meetings this year.

Lip

SI1020
07-21-2012, 07:25 PM
And all of a sudden, for all the feel good about going to the ballpark with a chance to win because Ozzie Guillen's not around anymore and the hitting isn't handicapped by having Greg Walker as a hitting coach, the 2012 Sox appear to be in danger of looking like 2011 and 2010.
But the White Sox are going to need to regroup after the walkoff Red Sox loss in a brilliant Quintana start and the two losses in Detroit the way they regrouped after the Dodger walkoff loss in a brilliant Quintana start and two losses against the Cubs. I agree with both statements. Hopefully they do regroup so this season is not a reprise of the last three. Also, although I excised it out I do remember the Phil Linz incident very well. It was a glorious but fleeting moment in a year that saw the Sox come so close to a pennant.

wassagstdu
07-21-2012, 07:38 PM
Sox-nemesis pitchers: "If it works, keep doing it until it stops working."
Sox hitters: "If it doesn't work, keep doing it until it starts working."

Now that we know that the prolonged slumps and periods of corpseball were not caused by Ozzie or Walker, can we also entertain the passing thought that if we had not ridden Greg Walker out of town on a rail he might have been able to help Paul Konerko get out of his prolonged slump -- which will be the key to getting this team back on the right track?

SI1020
07-21-2012, 07:42 PM
Sox-nemesis pitchers: "If it works, keep doing it until it stops working."
Sox hitters: "If it doesn't work, keep doing it until it starts working."

Now that we know that the prolonged slumps and periods of corpseball were not caused by Ozzie or Walker, can we also entertain the passing thought that if we had not ridden Greg Walker out of town on a rail he might have been able to help Paul Konerko get out of his prolonged slump -- which will be the key to getting this team back on the right track? Whatever happens to the Sox this year and in the future the departure of the old regime was totally justified. In fact, it was overdue.

JB98
07-21-2012, 07:46 PM
Whatever happens to the Sox this year and in the future the departure of the old regime was totally justified. In fact, it was overdue.

Ozzie should have been fired last May. His teams underachieve every year now, and 2012 is no exception.

Almost every Sox veteran has better numbers under Ventura/Manto this year than with Ozzie/Walker last year.

Neither Ozzie nor Walker is missed.

PushinWeight
07-21-2012, 08:08 PM
Some positive thoughts:

1. At least this is happening in July, not September. There is still time to recover.

2. Win tomorrow, back in 1st.

3. The streaky nature of the Sox this season would indicate there is a few more win streaks left in them this season.

Or just start hitting boys, and everything will get better!

Frater Perdurabo
07-21-2012, 08:18 PM
Detroit may win tomorrow, and they may slug their way to 95 wins and the division title. They might even win the World Series.

But their defense is bad, and thus they have to out-slug the opposition.

There is no guarantee the Tigers continue slugging so well, and therefore no guarantee they win the division.

tstrike2000
07-21-2012, 08:19 PM
For right now anyway, we're back to tipping our crap.

DickAllen72
07-21-2012, 08:28 PM
Now that we know that the prolonged slumps and periods of corpseball were not caused by Ozzie or Walker, can we also entertain the passing thought that if we had not ridden Greg Walker out of town on a rail he might have been able to help Paul Konerko get out of his prolonged slump -- which will be the key to getting this team back on the right track?
Absolutely not. In fact quite the opposite. Konerko was known to go into epic long slumps during the Walker era. In fact, that was a trademark of the Walker era - players like Konerko, Rios, Swisher, Dunn, etc. going into months long and even season long slumps.

SephClone89
07-21-2012, 08:34 PM
In fact, that was a trademark of the Walker era - players like Konerko, Rios, Swisher, Dunn, etc. going into months long and even season long slumps.

Don't forget Dye after the break in '09.

DickAllen72
07-21-2012, 08:45 PM
Don't forget Dye after the break in '09.
Another excellent example of the Walker era.

AnkleSox
07-21-2012, 08:48 PM
I think it's kinda funny to see almost 200 guests on the site presumably people hoping to see a meltdown and there's really not much melting down going on here.

Porcello is 3-0 with a 1.23 ERA against the Sox this year. I can deal with being shut down by Verlander. Nobody in the league does much against him. But it's clear the Sox need a better or different approach against Porcello at this point. Other teams around the league don't have this much trouble with him.

It's a bunch of dickbags from somewhere like West Bloomfield or Ypsilanti that claim they're from Detroit to look like hardasses, but moved to Wrigleyville and have never been south of North Ave.

**** em. If they hold the division lead they'll just get swept by the Yankees in the playoffs and we'll be able to laugh at the tears of another Detroit failure (besides the whole failure of being a successful city and all...)

kittle42
07-21-2012, 09:28 PM
It's a bunch of dickbags from somewhere like West Bloomfield or Ypsilanti that claim they're from Detroit to look like hardasses, but moved to Wrigleyville and have never been south of North Ave.

Spot on.

Ima_Tigerfan
07-21-2012, 09:35 PM
It's a bunch of dickbags from somewhere like West Bloomfield or Ypsilanti that claim they're from Detroit to look like hardasses, but moved to Wrigleyville and have never been south of North Ave.

**** em. If they hold the division lead they'll just get swept by the Yankees in the playoffs and we'll be able to laugh at the tears of another Detroit failure (besides the whole failure of being a successful city and all...)

I wanted to comment on this, and before you jump down my throat, I already mentioned how I think Sale is a good player and had a great start to this game. I am not trolling, just commenting. I wanted to mention that quite frankly, I do not fear the Yanks at all in the post season, as a tiger fan. Look at what we've done the last few times we've played them in the post season. Seems to be working out for the best.

sullythered
07-21-2012, 09:38 PM
I wanted to comment on this, and before you jump down my throat, I already mentioned how I think Sale is a good player and had a great start to this game. I am not trolling, just commenting. I wanted to mention that quite frankly, I do not fear the Yanks at all in the post season, as a tiger fan. Look at what we've done the last few times we've played them in the post season. Seems to be working out for the best.

You won't have to worry about the postseason, son.

sullythered
07-21-2012, 09:40 PM
Game sucked, have little to say, except, when did Prince Fielder start dressing up as a homeless man?

amsteel
07-21-2012, 09:51 PM
It's a bunch of dickbags from somewhere like West Bloomfield or Ypsilanti that claim they're from Detroit to look like hardasses, but moved to Wrigleyville and have never been south of North Ave.

It's my understanding that when you graduate from Michigan State you pick up your diploma from John Barleycorn's on Clark.

AnkleSox
07-21-2012, 10:21 PM
It's my understanding that when you graduate from Michigan State you pick up your diploma from John Barleycorn's on Clark.

And if it's U of M you pick it up from Moe's Cantina, but your favorite part of the night is when a talentless Kid Rock comes on the playlist at the Cubby Bear.

mikesouthside
07-21-2012, 10:34 PM
Tigers, Red Wings.....hate em. Detroit....hate that city. Kiss, Eminem,Kid Rock...hate em. Well maybe I'll be nicer tomorrow...ha.

MetroPD
07-21-2012, 11:51 PM
For tomorrows game we need to start this guy:
http://www.baseball-birthdays.com/archives/February/08/images/Jim%20Parque.png

thomas35forever
07-22-2012, 01:40 AM
You don't hit, you don't deserve first place. End of story.

WhiteSox5187
07-22-2012, 02:20 AM
Ozzie should have been fired last May. His teams underachieve every year now, and 2012 is no exception.

Almost every Sox veteran has better numbers under Ventura/Manto this year than with Ozzie/Walker last year.

Neither Ozzie nor Walker is missed.

I agree but I think that one can also say the Sox problems on offense go beyond Ozzie and Walker. Neither one of those two may have helped matters but they were not the sole cause either.

doublem23
07-22-2012, 05:29 AM
Just wondering...have the Sox seen this Turner kid before?

Lip

Oh god, please tell me you don't believe in that bull**** still?

doublem23
07-22-2012, 05:31 AM
It's July 21st, not September 21st. Two months of baseball left people.

Let's get 'em tomorrow and salvage one.

Seriously, this thread is ****ing pathetic.

wassagstdu
07-22-2012, 06:38 AM
In fact, that was a trademark of the Walker era - players like Konerko, Rios, Swisher, Dunn, etc. going into months long and even season long slumps.

So -- the Walker era continues?? If you take away Walker and the trademark continues, doesn't that mean the trademark was/is tagged somewhere else? Duh. And Walker was responsible for Konerko's slumps, in spite of the fact that Paul has said the opposite?

Similarly, if corpseball meant the team quit on Ozzie, does that mean they have quit on Robin?

And if batting Dunn third in spite of a prolonged slump meant Ozzie was sabotaging the team, does that mean Robin is sabotaging the team?

kufram
07-22-2012, 06:45 AM
After getting my slide rule and calendar out I have calculated that should we win today (and we are due a win) we will be in first place!

doublem23
07-22-2012, 08:09 AM
So -- the Walker era continues?? If you take away Walker and the trademark continues, doesn't that mean the trademark was/is tagged somewhere else? Duh. And Walker was responsible for Konerko's slumps, in spite of the fact that Paul has said the opposite?

Similarly, if corpseball meant the team quit on Ozzie, does that mean they have quit on Robin?

And if batting Dunn third in spite of a prolonged slump meant Ozzie was sabotaging the team, does that mean Robin is sabotaging the team?

I honestly cannot believe after the first 4 months of this season there are still people who can't see the plainly obvious truth that Robin and his staff run circles around Ozzie and his band of misfit morons, but I guess, there are still people who think Joe Paterno should be revered as a legend, so I guess denial's not just a river in Egypt.

After getting my slide rule and calendar out I have calculated that should we win today (and we are due a win) we will be in first place!

Well that can't be true, I've read this thread and it looks to me like we're in last place without hope of winning another game all season long.

Chez
07-22-2012, 08:18 AM
http://images-partners-tbn.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRfnPW1VhAKnIjr8MF7it_sK1Xx0At4S ulTsMzDddjmp4998dtcDHqM7w:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3b/Scan-of-original-poster-1939-300px.jpg/220px-Scan-of-original-poster-1939-300px.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep_Calm_and_Carry_On)

It's July. We'll be fine.

Frater Perdurabo
07-22-2012, 08:43 AM
I honestly cannot believe after the first 4 months of this season there are still people who can't see the plainly obvious truth that Robin and his staff run circles around Ozzie and his band of misfit morons...

The simple facts that they hit the cutoff man, allow fewer stolen based, and have the fewest unearned runs, show that fielding practice pays dividends. Yes, MLB players should know how to catch and throw properly depending on the situation. And yes, MLB coaches shouldn't have to run these drills. But doing so has paid dividends, and shows that Robin is a good leader, while the former manager had become a lazy, self-centered loudmouth.

kufram
07-22-2012, 09:05 AM
The simple facts that they hit the cutoff man, allow fewer stolen based, and have the fewest unearned runs, show that fielding practice pays dividends. Yes, MLB players should know how to catch and throw properly depending on the situation. And yes, MLB coaches shouldn't have to run these drills. But doing so has paid dividends, and shows that Robin is a good leader, while the former manager had become a lazy, self-centered loudmouth.

Although I found him embarrassing at times I liked Ozzie because he was so funny... but I'm glad the circus has left town because it became about the circus.

Re; fielding practice. I have known many people at the top of various fields, some quite creative. The people who succeed are generally those that work the hardest... day in and day out. Of course, MLB players MUST practice every aspect of the game... daily.... and as a team.

kittle42
07-22-2012, 10:24 AM
It's my understanding that when you graduate from Michigan State you pick up your diploma from John Barleycorn's on Clark.

This thread just keeps getting better!

kittle42
07-22-2012, 10:25 AM
Well that can't be true, I've read this thread and it looks to me like we're in last place without hope of winning another game all season long.

Hyperbole is a ****ty way to argue, and you know it.

kittle42
07-22-2012, 10:27 AM
Oh god, please tell me you don't believe in that bull**** still?

Seriously, give it a rest, Lip. If the Sox get shut out today, it certainly isn't because they haven't seen the guy before.

And if they hang 10 runs on him, will you *still* come back next time we face someone we haven't seen and worry about this same, completely unfounded bull****?

tstrike2000
07-22-2012, 11:10 AM
I want to liken this year's Tigers team to the '03 White Sox, whom also went on a winning streak in July and took over first place. I don't expect them to keep up this level of play and eventually they'll tail off to a more well-rounded and fundamentally sound White Sox team.

DickAllen72
07-22-2012, 11:15 AM
So -- the Walker era continues??

No. No one has been in a season long slump since Walker has been gone.

doublem23
07-22-2012, 11:20 AM
Hyperbole is a ****ty way to argue, and you know it.

You're right, we'd be lucky to only lose the next 68 games, the way the Sox have been playing, they'll probably lose 75 more games this season.

Lip Man 1
07-22-2012, 11:53 AM
Kittle:

I was simply asking the question. It was a legit question. I don't know if they've seen him before, have you?

Nothing was implied.

Lip

soltrain21
07-22-2012, 12:11 PM
Kittle:

I was simply asking the question. It was a legit question. I don't know if they've seen him before, have you?

Nothing was implied.

Lip

There is a magical thing called the Internet that could have found the answer for you, if nothing was actually implied by you asking.

kittle42
07-22-2012, 03:19 PM
There is a magical thing called the Internet that could have found the answer for you, if nothing was actually implied by you asking.

Yup. Baseball-reference.com should be bookmarked for many posters here.

russ99
07-22-2012, 04:53 PM
I honestly cannot believe after the first 4 months of this season there are still people who can't see the plainly obvious truth that Robin and his staff run circles around Ozzie and his band of misfit morons, but I guess, there are still people who think Joe Paterno should be revered as a legend, so I guess denial's not just a river in Egypt.

Well that can't be true, I've read this thread and it looks to me like we're in last place without hope of winning another game all season long.

Keep thinking that. You love to rail on last year as "evidence" on this point but discount Ozzie's first 5+ years as Sox manager. Truth is players tune out an approach after a number of years and Ozzie's way of doing things got stale, and that will happen to Robin too.

Also, there are issues with this staff, from the swing first, aggressive approach of Manto that gives pitchers an advantage to how the pitching staff is being run and if Robin has any say in it at all. Also, if Robin shows no urgency in the dugout, how will the players? Just because the staff has done a good job in the first half, they're not immune to questions when things go wrong, despite how much you obviously hate Ozzie.

kittle42
07-22-2012, 05:09 PM
Keep thinking that. You love to rail on last year as "evidence" on this point but discount Ozzie's first 5+ years as Sox manager. Truth is players tune out an approach after a number of years and Ozzie's way of doing things got stale, and that will happen to Robin too.

It only took the Marlins a few months to tune him out. They're ahead of the curve.

JB98
07-22-2012, 05:18 PM
Keep thinking that. You love to rail on last year as "evidence" on this point but discount Ozzie's first 5+ years as Sox manager. Truth is players tune out an approach after a number of years and Ozzie's way of doing things got stale, and that will happen to Robin too.

Also, there are issues with this staff, from the swing first, aggressive approach of Manto that gives pitchers an advantage to how the pitching staff is being run and if Robin has any say in it at all. Also, if Robin shows no urgency in the dugout, how will the players? Just because the staff has done a good job in the first half, they're not immune to questions when things go wrong, despite how much you obviously hate Ozzie.

Ozzie's record since 2009 speaks for itself. He did a good job when he first arrived in Chicago, but those days are gone now. He's too full of himself to be a good MLB manager these days. I watched some of Miami's recent series with the Cubs, and I must say the 2012 Marlins remind me of the 2011 White Sox. Same lack of focus and discipline. Same sloppy fundamentals. Another underachieving team. They even have a slumping player who is playing out of position (Hanley Ramirez), which was seemingly an annual tradition during Ozzie's time with the Sox.

wassagstdu
07-22-2012, 09:06 PM
I honestly cannot believe after the first 4 months of this season there are still people who can't see the plainly obvious truth that Robin and his staff run circles around Ozzie and his band of misfit morons, but I guess, there are still people who think Joe Paterno should be revered as a legend, so I guess denial's not just a river in Egypt.


With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about.

WhiteSox5187
07-22-2012, 10:07 PM
Ozzie's record since 2009 speaks for itself. He did a good job when he first arrived in Chicago, but those days are gone now. He's too full of himself to be a good MLB manager these days. I watched some of Miami's recent series with the Cubs, and I must say the 2012 Marlins remind me of the 2011 White Sox. Same lack of focus and discipline. Same sloppy fundamentals. Another underachieving team. They even have a slumping player who is playing out of position (Hanley Ramirez), which was seemingly an annual tradition during Ozzie's time with the Sox.

Obviously this is just my opinion here and I haven't watched any of the Marlins this year but while I think that Ozzie is an egomaniac and should have been gone following last year, I don't think he's a bad manager. He absolutely quit on the team last year and he (along with Kenny) created a toxic environment last year but I think he did a good job in 2010 and 2009 as well. My goodness in 2009 we tried to use Bartolo Colon and Jose Contreras as our 4 and 5 starters and they were both coming off serious injuries. I think that Robin brought in a breath of fresh air and that is helping the team but I don't think it's fair to blame 2011 solely on Ozzie. He might not have helped matters but he wasn't the sole cause of it either. Nor is he the sole reason we have missed the playoffs since 2008. I think he is a big part of the reason why we made the playoffs in 2005 and 2008.

JB98
07-23-2012, 01:53 AM
Obviously this is just my opinion here and I haven't watched any of the Marlins this year but while I think that Ozzie is an egomaniac and should have been gone following last year, I don't think he's a bad manager. He absolutely quit on the team last year and he (along with Kenny) created a toxic environment last year but I think he did a good job in 2010 and 2009 as well. My goodness in 2009 we tried to use Bartolo Colon and Jose Contreras as our 4 and 5 starters and they were both coming off serious injuries. I think that Robin brought in a breath of fresh air and that is helping the team but I don't think it's fair to blame 2011 solely on Ozzie. He might not have helped matters but he wasn't the sole cause of it either. Nor is he the sole reason we have missed the playoffs since 2008. I think he is a big part of the reason why we made the playoffs in 2005 and 2008.

Well, there have been worse managers -- including some that wore a White Sox uniform. That said, Ozzie isn't a good enough manager to justify all the BS that goes along with him. I'd be willing to bet you $10 in Comiskey Cash Ozzie never manages again after the Marlins wise up and move on from him.

WhiteSox5187
07-23-2012, 02:51 AM
Well, there have been worse managers -- including some that wore a White Sox uniform. That said, Ozzie isn't a good enough manager to justify all the BS that goes along with him. I'd be willing to bet you $10 in Comiskey Cash Ozzie never manages again after the Marlins wise up and move on from him.

I suspect someone would take a chance on him. Jerry Manuel got another managing gig so I suspect Ozzie could find one too. I haven't been following the Marlins at all so I don't know if this is a case of bad managing or what. I do know they have had a lot of blown leads and a leaky bullpen and when your bullpen can't close a game out it can make any manager look bad.

doublem23
07-23-2012, 05:02 AM
Keep thinking that. You love to rail on last year as "evidence" on this point but discount Ozzie's first 5+ years as Sox manager. Truth is players tune out an approach after a number of years and Ozzie's way of doing things got stale, and that will happen to Robin too.

Yeah but weren't there only 2 players who were here for Ozzie's full tenure, only 1 more who was here starting in 2005. Most of the rest of the roster turns over in a few years. And considering some of the epic slumps guys went on once they immediately joined the Sox and then seemed pull out of as soon as they either left or KW and JR threw Ozzie out... Seems like guys were tuning Ozzie out about 10 minutes after meeting him. I don't blame them, as he is a pompous moron.

doublem23
07-23-2012, 05:03 AM
With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about.

I'll bet I don't, I'm sure if I just simply ignored all the times Ozzie ****ed up, I'd see his brilliance, too!!1! :cool: