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View Full Version : *Official* 7-16 Wild Pen Screws Axelrod; BOS 5 YOUK 1 Postgamer


Frater Perdurabo
07-16-2012, 09:53 PM
Only Youk and AJ managed to get any hits tonight.

Frater Perdurabo
07-16-2012, 09:54 PM
Go Angels and Rays.

delben91
07-16-2012, 09:56 PM
Nice thread title.

Good games by Youkilis, Pierzynski and especially Axelrod.

Septimo and Jones with rough nights, but that's going to happen with rookies in the pen. Not good, but what are the alternatives right now? When Crain comes back maybe Septimo goes down...

Get 'em tomorrow. Cook kept the ball down and the Sox obliged by swinging at it.

Oh, and before I forget, Ventura is a ****ing idiot. Sheesh, just about slipped my mind there. Silly me.

Frater Perdurabo
07-16-2012, 09:56 PM
Perhaps the most despicable aspect of tonight's loss is that Vicente "Douche Bag" Padilla gets the win.

JB98
07-16-2012, 09:57 PM
I'm concerned about the rest of this road trip, and it's because the offense is so bad right now.

Axelrod gave a great effort in an emergency start against a good hitting team. This would have been a real nice one to get, but no, let's play some more Walkerball against Aaron Cook.

Sigh.

mahagga73
07-16-2012, 09:59 PM
I'm about done with Septimo-tank. He couldn't get the ball over the plate if he was standing in front of it. I heard a person familiar with his minor league career on the radio answer the question of what is the reason a leftie with that good an arm isn't already in the majors, and he said it was because he has no control whatsoever. Spot on scouting report.

kittle42
07-16-2012, 10:01 PM
Offense disappearing again.

Ventura needs to learn how to manage a bullpen, but that certainly is an on-the-job thing for a guy with no coaching experience at any level.

Tragg
07-16-2012, 10:01 PM
Axe has been our best pitcher since the All Star Break: 2 scoreless innings of relief and an outstanding start with 7Ks.

Why again was Septimo left in for a 3rd batter after walking the first two?

fram40
07-16-2012, 10:02 PM
I'm concerned about the rest of this road trip, and it's because the offense is so bad right now.

Axelrod gave a great effort in an emergency start against a good hitting team. This would have been a real nice one to get, but no, let's play some more Walkerball against Aaron Cook.

Sigh.

Pretty sure this was not an emergency start - unless you are referring to the fact that he was moved up two days. Because it appears Axelrod is going every five games - until further notice.

Whatever. A great start. But a frustrating loss.

Zakath
07-16-2012, 10:03 PM
Axe has been our best pitcher since the All Star Break: 2 scoreless innings of relief and an outstanding start with 7Ks.

Why again was Septimo left in for a 3rd batter after walking the first two?

Or left in for a 2nd batter after walking the first one...

Frater Perdurabo
07-16-2012, 10:04 PM
Ventura needs to learn how to manage a bullpen, but that certainly is an on-the-job thing for a guy with no coaching experience at any level.

I'm also inclined to give Robin (and by extension, Cooper) the benefit of the doubt. He's got one non-rookie in the pen right now. And he can't make Septimo and Jones throw strikes.

fram40
07-16-2012, 10:05 PM
Axe has been our best pitcher since the All Star Break: 2 scoreless innings of relief and an outstanding start with 7Ks.

Why again was Septimo left in for a 3rd batter after walking the first two?

lefty/lefty matchup? To give him a chance to get out of the mess he made?

The staff is a little short these days - starters are gonna have to go an extra inning, relievers may have to go an extra batter or two.

If not - the staff is going to be dog-tired for the stretch run.

Soxman219
07-16-2012, 10:05 PM
We'll win the rest of these games. Let's not go overboard over one loss.

SCCWS
07-16-2012, 10:06 PM
Offense disappearing again.

Ventura needs to learn how to manage a bullpen, but that certainly is an on-the-job thing for a guy with no coaching experience at any level.

Isn't that Cooper's job? The camera shots seemed to indicate he decided leaving Axelrod in for the 7th rather than going to the pen until the lefties came up.

central44
07-16-2012, 10:11 PM
This is on the offense. I don't know what Konerko's deal is--but if it's his wrist he needs to admit it and go on the DL.

I didn't expect the Sox to win tonight, but that's because Axelrod was starting. Turns out he did a great job and the offense did NOTHING to pick him up against a pretty mediocre starter on Boston's end, too.

Oh well. I think they'll bounce back.

Hitmen77
07-16-2012, 10:11 PM
I'm also inclined to give Robin (and by extension, Cooper) the benefit of the doubt. He's got one non-rookie in the pen right now. And he can't make Septimo and Jones throw strikes.

I agree. The bullpen management wasn't ideal tonight. But, you're not going to win many games anyway when only 2 guys in your lineup get hits.

Septimo isn't very good, but this bullpen is stretched thin by injuries. I just hope we get Crain, Humber, and Floyd all back soon and that the Sox can hold their ground in the standings in the meantime. Of course, we need Danks back too, but it sounds like that might still be a ways off.

fram40
07-16-2012, 10:12 PM
We'll win the rest of these games. Let's not go overboard over one loss.

It will be difficult. Humber, TBA, and Quintana will be starting the three games. Likely will need more offense.

If the Sox score only one run, it likely will not matter who starts.

Tragg
07-16-2012, 10:13 PM
lefty/lefty matchup? To give him a chance to get out of the mess he made?

The staff is a little short these days - starters are gonna have to go an extra inning, relievers may have to go an extra batter or two.

If not - the staff is going to be dog-tired for the stretch run.
The relief staff isn't short. They each pitched an inning Friday and a couple had action on Saturday and Sunday.
They left Peavy and Sale in there to near 120 pitches, speaking of keeping a staff fresh.
What's he going to do other than throw softballs after walking the first 2?

WhiteSox5187
07-16-2012, 10:17 PM
I'm also inclined to give Robin (and by extension, Cooper) the benefit of the doubt. He's got one non-rookie in the pen right now. And he can't make Septimo and Jones throw strikes.

I agree but the pen's inconsistency has been maddening of late. I suspect that most of that is because they are rookies and maybe the pressure is starting to get to them but when your relievers are falling behind everyone 2-0 or 3-0 it starts to feel like 2007 a bit where it doesn't matter who they put in.

JB98
07-16-2012, 10:18 PM
Pretty sure this was not an emergency start - unless you are referring to the fact that he was moved up two days. Because it appears Axelrod is going every five games - until further notice.

Whatever. A great start. But a frustrating loss.

Floyd was scheduled to start tonight. He couldn't go. So Axelrod started on an emergency basis. Not easy to do, and he did a great job.

delben91
07-16-2012, 10:20 PM
This is on the offense. I don't know what Konerko's deal is--but if it's his wrist he needs to admit it and go on the DL.

I didn't expect the Sox to win tonight, but that's because Axelrod was starting. Turns out he did a great job and the offense did NOTHING to pick him up against a pretty mediocre starter on Boston's end, too.

Oh well. I think they'll bounce back.

Yeah, I don't think the whole team will stay cold. They probably won't all catch fire at once, but I'd imagine someone will join Youkilis in hitting a little bit.

Just like hot streaks don't last forever, neither do cold streaks.

fram40
07-16-2012, 10:21 PM
The relief staff isn't short. They each pitched an inning Friday and a couple had action on Saturday and Sunday.
They left Peavy and Sale in there to near 120 pitches, speaking of keeping a staff fresh.
What's he going to do other than throw softballs after walking the first 2?

I wonder if Coop/RV are worried about the next two games. Humber hasn't pitched in a while and could struggle to get through six. Followed by TBA on Weds - five inning start?

The second half starts with 13 straight games, no days off, and that stretch starts with a 14 inning affair. No day off until after the three game Minn series next week

Mohoney
07-16-2012, 10:23 PM
Ventura needs to learn how to manage a bullpen, but that certainly is an on-the-job thing for a guy with no coaching experience at any level.

I don't think Bobby Cox or Joe Torre could do much better considering that the bullpen has exactly one non-rookie.

Considering the fact that he has about 5 or 6 very important guys on this roster remembering how to play baseball again, I'm willing to give him an awful lot of rope managing this piecemeal bullpen until either Crain gets back or Kenny gets him some help.

Soxman219
07-16-2012, 10:24 PM
It will be difficult. Humber, TBA, and Quintana will be starting the three games. Likely will need more offense.

If the Sox score only one run, it likely will not matter who starts.

Agreed, offense must do work and help our pitchers.

Domeshot17
07-16-2012, 10:27 PM
The offense was bad, but this is on the bullpen. Detroit is within 2.5 now. Time to get serious KW. We need a starter, a reliever or 2 and possibly a 2b. Get us some help!

fram40
07-16-2012, 10:31 PM
Agreed, offense must do work and help our pitchers.

The pitchers Boston is throwing out there have not been been pitching well. The Sox should be able to score some runs. But all three are lefties.

What was really frustrating tonight was Boston committed two errors in the first two innings. The error in the second inning shoulda/coulda/woulda broke the game open. But Ramirez GIDP to kill the rally

TDog
07-16-2012, 10:34 PM
Only Youk and AJ managed to get any hits tonight.

And the White Sox only scored the one run because Youkilis had his head in the game on a productive Dunn out. It looked like he was thinking third base when the ball was hit because of the shift. Instead of simply advancing into scoring position, he forced the error that led to the only run. Sometimes good things happen when you don't strike out.

Unfortunately, the Sox offense continued to struggle, this time not with Sale on the mound but with an emergency starter you wouldn't prefer to see on the mound when your offense is struggling against against a hitting team in their hitter's park. Still, Axelrod pitched remarkably well, especially after giving up hits to three of the first four hitters. I didn't see any way he was going to be left out there to go through the Red Sox order a fourth time.

With the lefties in the Red Sox lineup, the Sox figured to go with a lefty reliever. I was surprised Septimo was the first call. He got in a huge jam that looked like it would cost the White Sox the Friday night game by making an error, but pitched out of it with the help of bad Royals baserunning. Tonight, Septimo got out of the seventh but would have been better off not taking the mound in the eighth. One of the disadvantages to rookie relievers is that they can be inconsistent. In some games, Jones looks like no one could hit him. His has phenomenal movement on his hard stuff. But a couple of times this year, he has looked like he's pitching batting practice.

Quite a heartbreaking loss, but I don't think the White Sox would have done any better with Floyd starting.

I was thinking after seeing Youkilis score in the first that I've been seeing more of that sort of baseball this year, hitters taking bases that they see aren't covered and being more aggressive about it. I think it might be the influence of Trout and Harper coming up and trying to make things happen. Against the Dodgers Saturday night, the Padres stole home for the tying run with the pitcher's back to the plate (at the start of the play) and scored the eventual winning run on the throwing error. At about the same time in San Francisco, the Astros scored the tying run in the ninth from second base on a dropped third strike. It seems to be becoming a more aggressive game.

Frater Perdurabo
07-16-2012, 10:35 PM
It may be time to DL Paulie; he hasn't slumped like this in years, and it coincides with his wrist issue. Bring up Dan Johnson.

Soxman219
07-16-2012, 10:40 PM
The offense was bad, but this is on the bullpen. Detroit is within 2.5 now. Time to get serious KW. We need a starter, a reliever or 2 and possibly a 2b. Get us some help!

Not worried about Detroit honestly, White Sox aren't afraid of them and outside Verlander their pitching and bullpen is bad.

Domeshot17
07-16-2012, 10:50 PM
Not worried about Detroit honestly, White Sox aren't afraid of them and outside Verlander their pitching and bullpen is bad.

White Sox and Detroit have the exact same team ERA for pitching. Detroit does not play defense like the Sox, but you are VASTLY underestimating their pitching.

Zakath
07-16-2012, 10:51 PM
Not worried about Detroit honestly, White Sox aren't afraid of them and outside Verlander their pitching and bullpen is bad.

Weekend series is going to be big. We'll finally see Verlander on Friday, against Jake.

slavko
07-16-2012, 10:57 PM
Hawk, who knows what's going on but isn't saying directly, says PK is dinged up and has to fight his way out of it. It's the wrist, not one of his old fashioned slumps. Ax pitched well enough to get somebody's attention. If Kenny trades for a starter, betcha a lemon cookie Ax goes in the deal.

kittle42
07-16-2012, 10:57 PM
Not worried about Detroit honestly, White Sox aren't afraid of them and outside Verlander their pitching and bullpen is bad.

I love how anyone is dismissing Detroit's pitching when we have a bullpen that's barely drinking age and many ifs in the rotation, too.

TDog
07-16-2012, 11:01 PM
It may be time to DL Paulie; he hasn't slumped like this in years, and it coincides with his wrist issue. Bring up Dan Johnson.

I've been thinking pretty much the same thing. I was wondering if they might look to move Youkilis to first, which is probably his better position, but then you are looking at filling that third-base void again. You would probably look at Viciedo hitting cleanup, maybe Pierzynski depending on the matchup. The Sox already in-season have picked up two players to play third, and no one is anxious to see the opening day third baseman returning.

Honestly, though, I thought they were looking for a backup catcher. Flowers might be doing the job if he were getting more playing time and staying sharp, but he certainly isn't doing well in a backup role. Especially in this season's heat, Piersynski should be getting more days off.

TheOldRoman
07-16-2012, 11:30 PM
The offense was bad, but this is on the bullpen. Detroit is within 2.5 now. Time to get serious KW. We need a starter, a reliever or 2 and possibly a 2b. Get us some help!No, this one is on the offense. They faced terrible pitching and scored one run. The offense lost the game several times over before Septimo decided to blow things up.
EDIT: Just noticed another silly shot at Beckham. Nice!

I have been saying it for a month now, but Konerko needs to be out of the lineup and on the DL. He has been atrocious since June 1, and his wrist is hurting him. .241 in June and .225 in July, one homer over the past month. That isn't helping the team. Get him out of the lineup ASAP so he can hopefully get healthy in time for the stretch run.

CoopaLoop
07-16-2012, 11:31 PM
Bad loss.

1 run off Cook :o:

TomBradley72
07-16-2012, 11:33 PM
I don't think Bobby Cox or Joe Torre could do much better considering that the bullpen has exactly one non-rookie.

Considering the fact that he has about 5 or 6 very important guys on this roster remembering how to play baseball again, I'm willing to give him an awful lot of rope managing this piecemeal bullpen until either Crain gets back or Kenny gets him some help.

I agree- I'm not about to rip Robin- he's lost 3/5's of his opening day starting rotation (Danks/Humber/Floyd) + one of the most important veteran arms in the pen (Crain) + his clean up hitter (PK) hasn't done anything for about a month now.

To lose those 4 arms + Ohmann turning out to be useless and to be in 1st place- is a credit to Coop and Robin.

fram40
07-16-2012, 11:37 PM
I agree- I'm not about to rip Robin- he's lost 3/5's of his opening day starting rotation (Danks/Humber/Floyd) + one of the most important veteran arms in the pen (Crain) + his clean up hitter (PK) hasn't done anything for about a month now.

To lose those 4 arms + Ohmann turning out to be useless and to be in 1st place- is a credit to Coop and Robin.

Absolutely agree. Let's hope they keep figuring out how to win games. This team has been amazing so far this year.

palehozenychicty
07-16-2012, 11:38 PM
I agree- I'm not about to rip Robin- he's lost 3/5's of his opening day starting rotation (Danks/Humber/Floyd) + one of the most important veteran arms in the pen (Crain) + his clean up hitter (PK) hasn't done anything for about a month now.

To lose those 4 arms + Ohmann turning out to be useless and to be in 1st place- is a credit to Coop and Robin.

Thank you. I think they'll just have to ride it out until reinforcements come in.

Lip Man 1
07-16-2012, 11:42 PM
Konerko is not going to get better until the off season. According to the stories today he's said surgery could be needed. I don't know if resting him for two weeks is going to dramatically change the equation at this point.

Something to keep in mind in September.

Detroit's final 13 games are against Kansas City, Oakland and Minnesota. Those clubs will be long out of contention and probably playing a number of rookies.

The Sox final 13 games are against the Angels, Cleveland and Tampa Bay...big, BIG difference.

It would behoove the Sox to have a decent lead going into those final two weeks.

The schedule makers once again, have done this club no favors.

Lip

delben91
07-16-2012, 11:45 PM
Konerko is not going to get better until the off season. According to the stories today he's said surgery could be needed. I don't know if resting him for two weeks is going to dramatically change the equation at this point.

Something to keep in mind in September.

Detroit's final 13 games are against Kansas City, Oakland and Minnesota. Those clubs will be long out of contention and probably playing a number of rookies.

The Sox final 13 games are against the Angels, Cleveland and Tampa Bay...big, BIG difference.

It would behoove the Sox to have a decent lead going into those final two weeks.

The schedule makers once again, have done this club no favors.

Lip

I'd expect the Sox to have to earn their way in regardless. Can't expect any favors, nor should they want any.

Lip Man 1
07-17-2012, 12:04 AM
Delben:

Can't speak for the Sox or anybody else but after playing 150 games over six months I'll take any and all breaks anybody will give me the final two weeks.

The difference in the schedule is dramatic and striking.

Both the Angels and Tampa will probably be locked into a race for a wild card spot, playing their best players because they simply have to. Detroit will be facing cannon fodder.

Lip

amsteel
07-17-2012, 12:16 AM
Right now, Detroit wins the division on the weakness in our pen.

A stopgap starting rotation isn't doing us any favors. And once the scouting reports get out on the guys in the pen, things will not go well. Shaky bullpen management will only exascerbate the problem.

Also, the ridiculously high average w/ RISP and BABIP will regress. This isn't a bad team, but it's a middling team that has had a lot of breaks thus far.

Mohoney
07-17-2012, 12:17 AM
I love how anyone is dismissing Detroit's pitching when we have a bullpen that's barely drinking age and many ifs in the rotation, too.

People are dismissing Tigers pitchers because they suck, and have sucked, for about 85 games now. They have had plenty of chances to silence critics, and have done practically nothing. Every starter outside of Verlander has an ERA in the mid 4s or higher, in that cavernous park no less.

Let's put it this way. I'm sure glad that Porcello, Scherzer, and Fister aren't sucking in our uniform.

Mohoney
07-17-2012, 12:19 AM
Also, the ridiculously high average w/ RISP and BABIP will regress. This isn't a bad team, but it's a middling team that has had a lot of breaks thus far.

I disagree. This team is a team that has had really talented baseball players remember how to play baseball after their albatross of a manager took his "perpetual turd" act to Miami.

TDog
07-17-2012, 12:40 AM
Konerko is not going to get better until the off season. According to the stories today he's said surgery could be needed. I don't know if resting him for two weeks is going to dramatically change the equation at this point.

Something to keep in mind in September.

Detroit's final 13 games are against Kansas City, Oakland and Minnesota. Those clubs will be long out of contention and probably playing a number of rookies.

The Sox final 13 games are against the Angels, Cleveland and Tampa Bay...big, BIG difference.

It would behoove the Sox to have a decent lead going into those final two weeks.

The schedule makers once again, have done this club no favors.

Lip

Fans paying attention might notice that Oakland and Detroit came into tonight's game with the same record, the difference being that Oakland has been playing a little better all-around baseball.

I don't know about Minnesota, but I've been watching Oakland play and watching the rookies they bring up, pitchers and hitters alike, and it wouldn't surprise me if Oakland turns out to be the toughest team to beat in September. Kansas City might be very tough, too. Teams that are out of it and playing rookies can be tougher in September than teams that are out of it playing veterans.

You don't really know who has the easiest schedule until you see who breezes through theirs. An easy schedule didn't help the 1967 White Sox.

delben91
07-17-2012, 12:57 AM
Delben:

Can't speak for the Sox or anybody else but after playing 150 games over six months I'll take any and all breaks anybody will give me the final two weeks.

The difference in the schedule is dramatic and striking.

Both the Angels and Tampa will probably be locked into a race for a wild card spot, playing their best players because they simply have to. Detroit will be facing cannon fodder.

Lip

Detroit's also 1-5 against Seattle this year, so maybe we should want them to play cannon fodder.

Plus KC didn't exactly roll over and die this past weekend. They're playing to develop their young core of players, can't imagine they'll be benched in September just for kicks.

central44
07-17-2012, 02:20 AM
People are dismissing Tigers pitchers because they suck, and have sucked, for about 85 games now. They have had plenty of chances to silence critics, and have done practically nothing. Every starter outside of Verlander has an ERA in the mid 4s or higher, in that cavernous park no less.

Let's put it this way. I'm sure glad that Porcello, Scherzer, and Fister aren't sucking in our uniform.

Agree 100%.

Sox have had a tough time, but their peak rotation (Sale, Peavy, Quintana, Danks, Floyd) is by FAR the best in the division, as is their defense. Even if Danks never comes back 100%, Humber is still a solid replacement at the #5 spot.

Offense is always going to be streaky for every team. The things you can control--pitching and defense--the Sox do the best at in the AL Central.

It's a shame that right now is a rough spot, but they'll get back on track. i just hope Paulie figures out whatever his issues are. That will be huge for this team.

doublem23
07-17-2012, 06:11 AM
The schedule makers once again, have done this club no favors.



Except the Sox have a far easier schedule than Detroit the rest of the way; not just the last last two weeks

chisox12
07-17-2012, 08:12 AM
ISeptimo isn't very good, but this bullpen is stretched thin by injuries. I just hope we get Crain, Humber, and Floyd all back soon and that the Sox can hold their ground in the standings in the meantime. Of course, we need Danks back too, but it sounds like that might still be a ways off.



We desperately need Crain to come back. I pray that KW is bruning up the phone lines trying to bring in a veteran RP.

asindc
07-17-2012, 08:42 AM
White Sox and Detroit have the exact same team ERA for pitching. Detroit does not play defense like the Sox, but you are VASTLY underestimating their pitching.

No, he isn't. I've seen them play a few times. I wouldn't trade our current staff for their current staff.

amsteel
07-17-2012, 09:20 AM
No, he isn't. I've seen them play a few times. I wouldn't trade our current staff for their current staff.

ERA: CHI-3.94 DET-3.98
HR Allowed: CHI-100 Det-90
ERA+: CHI-109 DET-104
WHIP: CHI-1.235 DET-1.324
SO/BB: CHI-2.73 DET-2.94

Sorry folks, as much as you want Detroit's pitching to be vastly worse than the Sox, it's not.

Also, the Sox lead the AL in blown saves, are 2nd to last in saves, 4th in losses in relief, and throw the second most pitches in relief. BULLPEN HELP, PLZ.

cws05champ
07-17-2012, 09:23 AM
That Septimo outing was reminiscent of Damso Marte in game 3 in the 2005 ALDS. If only we had El Duque coming out the pen last night!

chisoxfanatic
07-17-2012, 09:31 AM
Delben:

Can't speak for the Sox or anybody else but after playing 150 games over six months I'll take any and all breaks anybody will give me the final two weeks.

The difference in the schedule is dramatic and striking.

Both the Angels and Tampa will probably be locked into a race for a wild card spot, playing their best players because they simply have to. Detroit will be facing cannon fodder.

Lip
Aside from Interleague, the schedules are the same over the course of the season. Besides, who knows if any of the Halos/Tampa/Cleveland will have key players on the DL when we get to them? The teams Detroit would be facing might play so well in order to play the role of a spoiler. The game of baseball can be so unpredictable, so it's best that we just let the games play themselves out.

jdm2662
07-17-2012, 09:45 AM
Konerko is not going to get better until the off season. According to the stories today he's said surgery could be needed. I don't know if resting him for two weeks is going to dramatically change the equation at this point.

Something to keep in mind in September.

Detroit's final 13 games are against Kansas City, Oakland and Minnesota. Those clubs will be long out of contention and probably playing a number of rookies.

The Sox final 13 games are against the Angels, Cleveland and Tampa Bay...big, BIG difference.

It would behoove the Sox to have a decent lead going into those final two weeks.

The schedule makers once again, have done this club no favors.

Lip


The Sox still have 12 games with KC and Minnesota.

The Sox are 8-4 vs CLE so far this season and swept Tampa in their building earlier this season.

DET is 1-5 vs SEA this season including getting swept at home earlier this season.

OAK currently is .5 games behind DET in the standings.

The health of the Sox is going to come down if they win the divsion or not. Not the schedule itself. I wasn't around, but I heard the 67 Sox had a cupcake schedule late in the season. How did that work out for them?

fusillirob1983
07-17-2012, 10:30 AM
Aside from Interleague, the schedules are the same over the course of the season. Besides, who knows if any of the Halos/Tampa/Cleveland will have key players on the DL when we get to them? The teams Detroit would be facing might play so well in order to play the role of a spoiler. The game of baseball can be so unpredictable, so it's best that we just let the games play themselves out.

This post makes too much sense. Is that allowed here?

doublem23
07-17-2012, 10:51 AM
This post makes too much sense. Is that allowed here?

Eh, most of this thread has been pretty reasonable aside from the usual doom and gloom from Lip, who seems to take pride in routinely being the 1st person to raise his white flag. :rolleyes:

amsteel
07-17-2012, 11:21 AM
For what it's worth, the Sox have the easiest remaining schedule in the AL.

http://www.playoffstatus.com/mlb/americansosrg.html

sox1970
07-17-2012, 11:43 AM
For what it's worth, the Sox have the easiest remaining schedule in the AL.

http://www.playoffstatus.com/mlb/americansosrg.html

Going into the second half, the Sox had 27 games left with KC and Min.

If they go 18-9 against them, and 25-25 against the rest of the league, they win 90 games, which should be good enough.

I wish it were this simple, but we all know it won't be.

Lip Man 1
07-17-2012, 12:28 PM
Fanatic:

To paraphrase Hawk, "don't tell me who you play, tell me when you play them..."

Double:

Nobody is raising "the white flag..." just bringing up what I think is an important point. But if you choose to take it that way that's your choice.

Lip

hawkjt
07-17-2012, 01:00 PM
Out of contention teams are notorious for being hard to beat late in the season. Last year, the O's just killed the Red Sox the last few weeks.

Teams in contention often play tight,and struggle.

The schedule does not scare me nearly as much as the injuries to our pitchers,and our hitting star.

This team is close to being held together by baling wire and spit at this point.Losing PK is sadly reminiscent to losing Big Frank and Maggs in 2004.

The Tigers have hit their stride and have won 12 of 15. Their offense is better than the Sox,and their pitching is close,with Verlander at the top.

I feared this series,but Axe gave the offense ample opportunity to win last nite...but as Melton pointed out, the offense is struggling with 6 runs in the last 3 games.
Alejandro is the catalyst for this offense,and he is cold.
PK is the engine,and he is cold.
Not good.

Now, when I looked at the critical two walks in the 8th last nite by Septimo, it was clear that Laz Diaz decided to squeeze the rookie after he questioned the first pitch of the inning. Against the two batters, the box showed two pitches that touched the box in each at bat,and Septimo was 0-4 on those pitches....all balls. If he gets the corners, he has two high quality strikes in both at bats,and the whole game changes. Diaz is a egotistical prick,as everyone knows,and once he set his mind to screwing Septimo, he had no chance. He took another strike away from Jones in the first at bat of his outing also.

Too bad, opportunity lost. I would love to get a split in the next 6 games.

JB98
07-17-2012, 01:23 PM
Out of contention teams are notorious for being hard to beat late in the season. Last year, the O's just killed the Red Sox the last few weeks.

Teams in contention often play tight,and struggle.

The schedule does not scare me nearly as much as the injuries to our pitchers,and our hitting star.

This team is close to being held together by baling wire and spit at this point.Losing PK is sadly reminiscent to losing Big Frank and Maggs in 2004.

The Tigers have hit their stride and have won 12 of 15. Their offense is better than the Sox,and their pitching is close,with Verlander at the top.

I feared this series,but Axe gave the offense ample opportunity to win last nite...but as Melton pointed out, the offense is struggling with 6 runs in the last 3 games.
Alejandro is the catalyst for this offense,and he is cold.
PK is the engine,and he is cold.
Not good.

Now, when I looked at the critical two walks in the 8th last nite by Septimo, it was clear that Laz Diaz decided to squeeze the rookie after he questioned the first pitch of the inning. Against the two batters, the box showed two pitches that touched the box in each at bat,and Septimo was 0-4 on those pitches....all balls. If he gets the corners, he has two high quality strikes in both at bats,and the whole game changes. Diaz is a egotistical prick,as everyone knows,and once he set his mind to screwing Septimo, he had no chance. He took another strike away from Jones in the first at bat of his outing also.

Too bad, opportunity lost. I would love to get a split in the next 6 games.

Yeah, the injuries are the thing that has me worried. I don't worry about the schedule. Remember when everyone was fretting about that 10-game stretch before the All-Star break? Four in New York, then three with Texas and three with Toronto. People were genuinely concerned the Sox would take a beating in those games. On the contrary, they pulled through with a 7-3 mark.

The Sox have proven they can beat good teams. In fact, they often play better baseball against good teams than they do against the Kansas Citys of the world.

The issues are the sheer volume of injuries to the pitching staff, and the fact that PK is swinging the bat like a man who is injured.

fusillirob1983
07-17-2012, 02:26 PM
Eh, most of this thread has been pretty reasonable aside from the usual doom and gloom from Lip, who seems to take pride in routinely being the 1st person to raise his white flag. :rolleyes:

Agree for this thread. More of a global comment - there were some doozies yesterday.

FielderJones
07-17-2012, 02:49 PM
ERA: CHI-3.94 DET-3.98
Sorry folks, as much as you want Detroit's pitching to be vastly worse than the Sox, it's not.


Runs allowed per game: CHI-4.11 DET-4.41

Playing only one more game DET has allowed 31 more runs than the Sox. So maybe the pitching isn't vastly worse, but the defense sure is.

fram40
07-17-2012, 06:03 PM
Going into the second half, the Sox had 27 games left with KC and Min.

If they go 18-9 against them, and 25-25 against the rest of the league, they win 90 games, which should be good enough.

I wish it were this simple, but we all know it won't be.

this puts it all in perspective for me.

Domeshot17
07-17-2012, 07:35 PM
No, this one is on the offense. They faced terrible pitching and scored one run. The offense lost the game several times over before Septimo decided to blow things up.
EDIT: Just noticed another silly shot at Beckham. Nice!

.

Sorry, I forgot he is going to turn into that Derek Jeter prediction anyday now. http://whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2605726&postcount=49

He is a below average 2nd baseman. He is solid, not spectacular, but very good with the glove. He is pretty weak offensively. He peaked for a couple months into a league average 2b, and has been terrible again in July. Its probably about time to try and find a full time 2b capable of more and let him move into the Utility role.

TheOldRoman
07-17-2012, 09:15 PM
Sorry, I forgot he is going to turn into that Derek Jeter prediction anyday now. http://whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2605726&postcount=49

He is a below average 2nd baseman. He is solid, not spectacular, but very good with the glove. He is pretty weak offensively. He peaked for a couple months into a league average 2b, and has been terrible again in July. Its probably about time to try and find a full time 2b capable of more and let him move into the Utility role.Beckham obviously hasn't played up to his potential yet, but I still believe he could be a .300 hitter in the majors. You can't throw the last two years out the window, but you have to understand how much his career growth was stunted by piss poor coaching. You have been beating the anti-Beckham drum for several years now. You were noticably quiet about Gordon the past few months, but now that he hasn't hit well this month (10 games), you are harping on him again. Sorry he has had a rough two weeks. However, Gordon has gotten consistently better this season. He is a different hitter than the past two years. Even at this peak this season, he wasn't the hitter he can become, but he is also 25. So, yeah. It would be pretty dumb to get rid of him or relegate him to a utility role when he has done pretty well after his cold start, he is young and is improving after two and a half seasons of destructive coaching.

WhiteSox5187
07-17-2012, 10:38 PM
Beckham obviously hasn't played up to his potential yet, but I still believe he could be a .300 hitter in the majors. You can't throw the last two years out the window, but you have to understand how much his career growth was stunted by piss poor coaching. You have been beating the anti-Beckham drum for several years now. You were noticably quiet about Gordon the past few months, but now that he hasn't hit well this month (10 games), you are harping on him again. Sorry he has had a rough two weeks. However, Gordon has gotten consistently better this season. He is a different hitter than the past two years. Even at this peak this season, he wasn't the hitter he can become, but he is also 25. So, yeah. It would be pretty dumb to get rid of him or relegate him to a utility role when he has done pretty well after his cold start, he is young and is improving after two and a half seasons of destructive coaching.

I don't know if he will ever be a .300 hitter (though I think he has made a lot of progress this year) but I could see him be a guy who hits .250-.270 with 15-20 HRs, with his defense that's a pretty good guy to have at second base.

Lip Man 1
07-17-2012, 10:59 PM
I'd be happy with those numbers.

Lip

Domeshot17
07-17-2012, 11:18 PM
I don't know if he will ever be a .300 hitter (though I think he has made a lot of progress this year) but I could see him be a guy who hits .250-.270 with 15-20 HRs, with his defense that's a pretty good guy to have at second base.

It's funny because if you click the link I posted earlier that is what I predicted Gordon as 2 years and got flamed for not putting him in the hall. If he ever consistently gets his swing together he can bring to the Sox what Howie Kendrick does to the LAA. I dont hate the guy I just have realistic expectations of his potential.

mahagga73
07-18-2012, 10:17 AM
It's funny because if you click the link I posted earlier that is what I predicted Gordon as 2 years and got flamed for not putting him in the hall. If he ever consistently gets his swing together he can bring to the Sox what Howie Kendrick does to the LAA. I dont hate the guy I just have realistic expectations of his potential.
Problem is , where are you going to find another second baseman with the glove of Beckham? He's not the greatest hitter around but his RBI's are pretty good for the postion . I think he can be a .270 hitter with a little more seasoning. His glove has to be worth several runs a year.

soxinem1
07-18-2012, 11:00 AM
Perhaps the most despicable aspect of tonight's loss is that Vicente "Douche Bag" Padilla gets the win.

AJ owes Padilla a line drive off of him. Literally.

TDog
07-18-2012, 01:35 PM
AJ owes Padilla a line drive off of him. Literally.

Pierzynski is one of many past and present hitters in both leagues who owes Padilla a line drive in a place that hurts.