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View Full Version : *Official* 7-14 Royal Flush; Jake, Sox get Barbecued 6-3 in KC Postgamer


Frater Perdurabo
07-14-2012, 09:07 PM
Ugh

Win the series tomorrow.

Good thing the Tigers and Indians lost.

GoGoCrede
07-14-2012, 09:09 PM
Oh well....

JB98
07-14-2012, 09:11 PM
Our pitching staff cannot stop Kansas City in that ballpark. There's a reason the Sox haven't won a series there since 2009. Can't get 'em out, can't outslug 'em every night.

It's not going to be any easier tomorrow. Mendoza has three of his nine career victories against the Sox.

ChiSoxGal85
07-14-2012, 09:12 PM
Bleah. Not much fun there, except for Dunn's massive solo HR and some solid defensive play (De Aza, Rios, Alexei...).

JB98 said in the game thread the Sox haven't won a series in KC since 2009. Time to change that trend tomorrow!

Frater Perdurabo
07-14-2012, 09:14 PM
We have many games remaining with the Royals and Twins. The Sox can make or break their season in large measure against these two clubs. Winning tomorrow will set a positive tone.

Tragg
07-14-2012, 09:19 PM
Bunting the leadoff hitter with 0 outs in the 7th? As if 1 run would win that game.

Using Peavy for 120 pitches. He's not a spring chicken - we need him for September. While everyone pitched in the pen yesterday, it was only for an inning and they just came off of 4 days rest and Sale is likely to give the pen rest whenever he pitches, which I assume will be soon.

palehozenychicty
07-14-2012, 09:21 PM
KC got us this time. Let's try again tomorrow.

JB98
07-14-2012, 09:21 PM
Bunting the leadoff hitter with 0 outs in the 7th? As if 1 run would win that game.

Using Peavy for 120 pitches. He's not a spring chicken - we need him for September. While everyone pitched in the pen yesterday, it was only for an inning and they just came off of 4 days rest and Sale is likely to give the pen rest whenever he pitches, which I assume will be soon.

Horrendous move. Took the bat out of Youkilis' hands.

amsteel
07-14-2012, 09:25 PM
Just because Peavy talks doesn't mean you have to listen, RV.

TDog
07-14-2012, 09:35 PM
The Royals won because they went to their bullpen in the sixth, with pitchers who pitched the night before, when the Royals used their bullpen for more than nine innings. Granted, Crow gave up the lead by allowing an inherited runner to score, but the bullpen wasn't scored upon.

The Royals also won today for the same reason they could have won Friday night. Escobar has been killing the Sox this weekend. He drove in the last three regulation runs with a bunt and a triple Friday night and hit two home runs that put the Royals ahead against Peavy tonight.

The game may have been winnable if the Sox had driven in more of the runners they put on base. Only two of the runners they got into scoring position scored. The White Sox hit two two-triples and a double, and none of them scored.

For the second time this month, a lefty reliever intentionally walked Youkilis to get to Dunn, and for the second time in the situation, Dunn struck out when a single could have given the Sox the lead. Maybe the strategy will eventually backfire, but the Royals and Rangers teams feel that by the time they get into their bullpen, Dunn doesn't pose a threat with runners on base.

This was a frustrating loss because this felt like a winnable game until the bottom of the eighth. It would have felt like a winnable game in the ninth if the Royals hadn't scored two more against Peavy.

I know the White Sox have deeper concerns than beating the Royals, who essentially can play for today's battles because winning the war isn't part of their big picture. And it's possible that if the White Sox had held the Royals in the late innings today, the Sox could be looking at extra innings again. Still, this looked like a game the White Sox didn't win because Ventura held back moves that could have helped them win.

oldgrouch
07-14-2012, 09:37 PM
Bunting the leadoff hitter with 0 outs in the 7th? As if 1 run would win that game.

Using Peavy for 120 pitches. He's not a spring chicken - we need him for September. While everyone pitched in the pen yesterday, it was only for an inning and they just came off of 4 days rest and Sale is likely to give the pen rest whenever he pitches, which I assume will be soon.

Looks like we sacrificed this game just to save our pen. Please tell me if
I'm wrong.:scratch::scratch:

Noneck
07-14-2012, 09:54 PM
It was nice to see the Sox expendable asset go deep in this game. The back end of the royals pen was needed again tonight so the Sox should have the advantage tomorrow with that and the ace going. Win series and all will be fine.

Dan H
07-14-2012, 09:58 PM
Looks like we sacrificed this game just to save our pen. Please tell me if
I'm wrong.:scratch::scratch:

I didn't get to see this game, but I think games have been sacrificed in a sense several times this season. We have seen some real weak lineups on Sunday to rest regulars. If Ventura didn't go to the pen because of Friday night, that was a mistake. The team has just come off a long rest.

We all aware that this race is going to go to the last week. If the Sox are serious about contending, they can't be "sacrificing" any more games.

JB98
07-14-2012, 10:15 PM
The Royals won because they went to their bullpen in the sixth, with pitchers who pitched the night before, when the Royals used their bullpen for more than nine innings. Granted, Crow gave up the lead by allowing an inherited runner to score, but the bullpen wasn't scored upon.

The Royals also won today for the same reason they could have won Friday night. Escobar has been killing the Sox this weekend. He drove in the last three regulation runs with a bunt and a triple Friday night and hit two home runs that put the Royals ahead against Peavy tonight.

The game may have been winnable if the Sox had driven in more of the runners they put on base. Only two of the runners they got into scoring position scored. The White Sox hit two two-triples and a double, and none of them scored.

For the second time this month, a lefty reliever intentionally walked Youkilis to get to Dunn, and for the second time in the situation, Dunn struck out when a single could have given the Sox the lead. Maybe the strategy will eventually backfire, but the Royals and Rangers teams feel that by the time they get into their bullpen, Dunn doesn't pose a threat with runners on base.

This was a frustrating loss because this felt like a winnable game until the bottom of the eighth. It would have felt like a winnable game in the ninth if the Royals hadn't scored two more against Peavy.

I know the White Sox have deeper concerns than beating the Royals, who essentially can play for today's battles because winning the war isn't part of their big picture. And it's possible that if the White Sox had held the Royals in the late innings today, the Sox could be looking at extra innings again. Still, this looked like a game the White Sox didn't win because Ventura held back moves that could have helped them win.

Or, maybe Konerko could have gotten a big RBI for the first time in a long time. He had his chance, too.

tebman
07-14-2012, 10:33 PM
Peavy didn't have it and the team looked tired tonight.

No Pick to Click winner yet, so I'll plug the Totally Biased Game Recap (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=4&id=4302) here for now.

:shrug:

central44
07-14-2012, 11:19 PM
KC plays the Sox as tough as anyone. Don't know what causes it, but you can never expect a game against these guys to be easy. Very pesky.

At least Detroit and Cleveland both lost, so no ground was lost. It could be worse. I like our chances with Sale going tomorrow.

samurai_sox
07-14-2012, 11:43 PM
Peavy didn't have it and the team looked tired tonight.

No Pick to Click winner yet, so I'll plug the Totally Biased Game Recap (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=4&id=4302) here for now.

:shrug:

Not buying it, this is the second game back from the All-Star game, don't care if they played 14 innings last night.

IronFisk
07-14-2012, 11:48 PM
Too much Peavy, and too little clutch hitting.

So it goes...

sullythered
07-15-2012, 12:35 AM
Not buying it, this is the second game back from the All-Star game, don't care if they played 14 innings last night.

Yeah, I watched like three innings and saw us get 2 triples. Not exactly exhausted.

TheOldRoman
07-15-2012, 12:57 AM
Peavy was bad tonight, but he shouldn't have pitched as long. It's one thing to have him take his lumps if the game was a blowout, but it was a one run game entering the bottom of the 8th. Bad move by Robin.

Another absolute horse **** performance by the offense against a terrible pitcher. Stater with an era over 5, three runs scored in the game. Once again, they tuckered themselves out scoring all those runs last night. Hopefully they are nice and rested for tomorrow. Today was a game they should have won even with Peavy being off, and you can't be losing serieses to garbage teams like the Royals. Look at the series last weekend when the mediocre Tigers pretty easily swept the Royals. Yet, the Sox always play down to their level. It figures.

kittle42
07-15-2012, 01:48 AM
For the second time this month, a lefty reliever intentionally walked Youkilis to get to Dunn, and for the second time in the situation, Dunn struck out when a single could have given the Sox the lead. Maybe the strategy will eventually backfire, but the Royals and Rangers teams feel that by the time they get into their bullpen, Dunn doesn't pose a threat with runners on base.

Your persistence is quickly turning Dunn into my favorite Sox player.

kittle42
07-15-2012, 01:49 AM
Or, maybe Konerko could have gotten a big RBI for the first time in a long time. He had his chance, too.

Dunn's strikeout killed his morale.

Aesero
07-15-2012, 03:57 AM
Dunn's strikeout killed his morale.

When in a high pressure situation, Dunn just can't raise people's morale like he does in those non pressure at bats.

oldgrouch
07-15-2012, 08:29 AM
I didn't get to see this game, but I think games have been sacrificed in a sense several times this season. We have seen some real weak lineups on Sunday to rest regulars. If Ventura didn't go to the pen because of Friday night, that was a mistake. The team has just come off a long rest.

We all aware that this race is going to go to the last week. If the Sox are serious about contending, they can't be "sacrificing" any more games.

It just seems to me that after listening to Coop on WSCR yesterday that
he is calling the shots on the use of pitchers. He said "We need long outings
from Peavy and Sale in order to rest the pen."

Jollyroger2
07-15-2012, 09:59 AM
Very disappointing loss. With the pitching matchups in this series, anything less than a sweep is a failed series. Esp. with Cleveland and Detroit losing last night.

kittle42
07-15-2012, 10:19 AM
Very disappointing loss. With the pitching matchups in this series, anything less than a sweep is a failed series. Esp. with Cleveland and Detroit losing last night.

As much as I think the Sox should beat the Royals, it's baseball. The worst team beats the best team 1 out of 3. Win today and the series is a success. There are few 3 or 4 game series ever that weren't successes if the winners went 2-1 or 3-1.

SCCWS
07-15-2012, 10:42 AM
Important game today before going to Boston for 4. Red Sox got back 3 starters after All Star break and Crawford will be activated tomorrow. Wish Sale was going against them.

Tragg
07-15-2012, 11:07 AM
As much as I think the Sox should beat the Royals, it's baseball. The worst team beats the best team 1 out of 3. Win today and the series is a success. There are few 3 or 4 game series ever that weren't successes if the winners went 2-1 or 3-1.
That's certainly true.
I can take losses to the Royals.
But this one was significantly abetted by our manger's decisions, which I hope are not repeated.

TDog
07-15-2012, 11:45 AM
Or, maybe Konerko could have gotten a big RBI for the first time in a long time. He had his chance, too.

That isn't really relevant. The Royals changed pitchers, after changing pitchers at the top of the inning after going through the entire bullpen in more than nine innings and more than three hours of relief work the night before, with two on and two out, to match up against Konerko, who is hitting .375 this season with two outs and runners in scoring position.

The point is that in tie games twice in the seventh inning in July, teams have intentionally walked the White Sox No. 2 hitter to strike out the White Sox No. 3 hitter.

You don't see teams intentionally walking No. 2 hitters to get to No. 3 hitters except in potentially game-ending situations. Most teams would welcome their No. 2 hitters being walked to get to their No. 3 hitters because it would put another man on base for their No. 3 hitter. That is why most major league managers would regard it as a no-brainer to but the No. 1 hitter after the No. 9 hitter reaches in the seventh inning of a tie game. The opposition isn't going to take the bat out of the hands of the No. 2 hitter to put another man on for the No. 3 hitter. But teams seem to be regarding Dunn as if against lefty relievers he is a National League pitcher. And Dunn is doing nothing to change this perception.

That should be a concern to Whtie Sox management.

The funny thing is, a couple of weeks ago I read a post from someone who wanted to see Youkilis walk more.

wassagstdu
07-15-2012, 11:51 AM
For the second time this month, a lefty reliever intentionally walked Youkilis to get to Dunn, and for the second time in the situation, Dunn struck out when a single could have given the Sox the lead. Maybe the strategy will eventually backfire, but the Royals and Rangers teams feel that by the time they get into their bullpen, Dunn doesn't pose a threat with runners on base.


Dunn's career strategy is analogous to what Verlander did in the All-Star game. The 459-foot homer is the 100 mph fastball, and that seems to be Dunn's thought every time he comes to bat regardless of the situation. Well, maybe you can't argue with 27 HR and 64 RBI at the break, but winning is the only stat that matters, and Dunn's strategy is not a winner. It makes it too easy to shut him down in key situations, which lowers the value of his numbers and handicaps the rest of the lineup. I say now is the time to sell high and deal Dunn.

JB98
07-15-2012, 12:03 PM
That isn't really relevant. The Royals changed pitchers, after changing pitchers at the top of the inning after going through the entire bullpen in more than nine innings and more than three hours of relief work the night before, with two on and two out, to match up against Konerko, who is hitting .375 this season with two outs and runners in scoring position.

The point is that in tie games twice in the seventh inning in July, teams have intentionally walked the White Sox No. 2 hitter to strike out the White Sox No. 3 hitter.

You don't see teams intentionally walking No. 2 hitters to get to No. 3 hitters except in potentially game-ending situations. Most teams would welcome their No. 2 hitters being walked to get to their No. 3 hitters because it would put another man on base for their No. 3 hitter. That is why most major league managers would regard it as a no-brainer to but the No. 1 hitter after the No. 9 hitter reaches in the seventh inning of a tie game. The opposition isn't going to take the bat out of the hands of the No. 2 hitter to put another man on for the No. 3 hitter. But teams seem to be regarding Dunn as if against lefty relievers he is a National League pitcher. And Dunn is doing nothing to change this perception.

That should be a concern to Whtie Sox management.

The funny thing is, a couple of weeks ago I read a post from someone who wanted to see Youkilis walk more.

I don't see why not. Both Dunn and Konerko had a chance to come through and give the Sox the lead in the late innings. Both failed.

JB98
07-15-2012, 12:06 PM
Very disappointing loss. With the pitching matchups in this series, anything less than a sweep is a failed series. Esp. with Cleveland and Detroit losing last night.

As I mentioned earlier, the Sox haven't won a series in Kansas City since 2009, let alone swept one.

If you were expecting a sweep in this series, you were out of your mind. Two out of three here would be a good series for the Sox.

tstrike2000
07-15-2012, 12:17 PM
As I mentioned earlier, the Sox haven't won a series in Kansas City since 2009, let alone swept one.

If you were expecting a sweep in this series, you were out of your mind. Two out of three here would be a good series for the Sox.

To go along with .500 for the rest of the road trip.

kittle42
07-15-2012, 12:29 PM
I say now is the time to sell high and deal Dunn.

Christ, this group just gets more ridiculous by the day.

kittle42
07-15-2012, 12:30 PM
I don't see why not. Both Dunn and Konerko had a chance to come through and give the Sox the lead in the late innings. Both failed.

It's not relevant because Konerko's name isn't Dunn, obviously.

Why am I not shocked that the bash Dunn club is basically filled with folks whose opinions I traditionally disagree with? :D:

TDog
07-15-2012, 01:00 PM
I don't see why not. Both Dunn and Konerko had a chance to come through and give the Sox the lead in the late innings. Both failed.

It's relevant because tje point is that opposing teams have begun to treat Dunn in the late innings against lefty relievers as National League teams treat pitchers. Dunn has twice been intentionally walked this year by right-handed relievers, once with Viciedo hitting behind him and flying out and once with in front of a Konerko RBI single. The Sox won both of those games.

It isn't a question of the Royals walking Youkilis so they could retire Dunn and Konerko. It was a matter of knowing Dunn wouldn't put the ball in play against this pitcher, and walking Youkilis who had a better chance against him and then changing pitchers in an effort to retire Konerko.

The Royals intentionally walked Youikilis because they believed Dimm with two men on late in a tie game was their path to getting out of the inning. It isn't a matter of if Dunn (.238 overall with runners in scoring position, .147 with two outs and runners in scoring position) failing just as badly as Konerko (.344 and .375).

Tragg
07-15-2012, 01:01 PM
The funny thing is, a couple of weeks ago I read a post from someone who wanted to see Youkilis walk more.
Yea, having an additional runner on base when Dunn hits is a terrible thing.
Yes, against a LHP, he's a big problem.
But he's hitting behind our two best pure OBP guys, which allows teams to stifle us by bringing in a lefty reliever. That's correctable. He needs to go down in the lineup, or be willing to pinch hit for him, which we can't do because we don't have a bat on the bench (why is Hudson on this roster?? - surely we could try some AAA hitters - they couldn't be worse).

TDog
07-15-2012, 01:31 PM
Yea, having an additional runner on base when Dunn hits is a terrible thing.
Yes, against a LHP, he's a big problem.
But he's hitting behind our two best pure OBP guys, which allows teams to stifle us by bringing in a lefty reliever. That's correctable. He needs to go down in the lineup, or be willing to pinch hit for him, which we can't do because we don't have a bat on the bench (why is Hudson on this roster?? - surely we could try some AAA hitters - they couldn't be worse).

It isn't as simple as moving Dunn down in the order. His best inning is the first where he can give the Sox a quick lead. (He might be better in the second, but iif he is batting in the second inning it is a good offensive day for the Sox.) He is stronger against starters than relievers, in part because starters are looking to get out a lineup and relievers are often matched up to his disadvantage. That is true for everyone, but Dunn is abysmal against relievers compared with his teammates.

You might like to see Dunn face the other team's closer, though, becasuse closers aren't put in the game specifically to get Dunn out, and most are right handed.

slavko
07-15-2012, 02:10 PM
That isn't really relevant. The Royals changed pitchers, after changing pitchers at the top of the inning after going through the entire bullpen in more than nine innings and more than three hours of relief work the night before, with two on and two out, to match up against Konerko, who is hitting .375 this season with two outs and runners in scoring position.

The point is that in tie games twice in the seventh inning in July, teams have intentionally walked the White Sox No. 2 hitter to strike out the White Sox No. 3 hitter.

You don't see teams intentionally walking No. 2 hitters to get to No. 3 hitters except in potentially game-ending situations. Most teams would welcome their No. 2 hitters being walked to get to their No. 3 hitters because it would put another man on base for their No. 3 hitter. That is why most major league managers would regard it as a no-brainer to but the No. 1 hitter after the No. 9 hitter reaches in the seventh inning of a tie game. The opposition isn't going to take the bat out of the hands of the No. 2 hitter to put another man on for the No. 3 hitter. But teams seem to be regarding Dunn as if against lefty relievers he is a National League pitcher. And Dunn is doing nothing to change this perception.

That should be a concern to Whtie Sox management.

The funny thing is, a couple of weeks ago I read a post from someone who wanted to see Youkilis walk more.

Just to be fair, and fairness is our watchword at WSI, the Konerko of Right Now and the Konerko of Flirting With .400 Fame are two different players. He's hitting snakebit. And if you compare his RBI's with some of the guys we think of as mediocre hitters, he isn't performing as great as we tend to see it.

The bright side is that every guy in this lineup is driving in runs. We have a team, ladies and gentlemen.