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View Full Version : Miguel Cabrera on Sox: "Let's see how they finish"


Wedema
07-12-2012, 01:47 PM
Is Cabrera taking the Sox too lightly?

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/13722044-452/now-well-learn-if-white-sox-have-what-it-takes-to-win.html

Boondock Saint
07-12-2012, 01:51 PM
The Tigers should look in the mirror before talking about how the Sox finish. They haven't even been capable of starting competently.

kittle42
07-12-2012, 02:04 PM
This is akin to KW's "Puts the Tigers in a better position to compete with us."

What else is he supposed to say?

I feel that ripping Cabrera here is a stones in glass houses type thing. There are a few people on the site here printing playoff tickets (just a few - not many).

WisSoxFan
07-12-2012, 02:06 PM
I don't read it as him saying anything too inflammatory. Seems like a fair statement to me. Let's see how we finish (and I'm not saying this as a dark cloud).

LITTLE NELL
07-12-2012, 02:10 PM
His manager in the first series of the year between the Sox and the Tigers said the Sox would be contenders and questioned SIs prediction of 67 wins.
Who really cares what either one of them says, wins speak louder than words.

kobo
07-12-2012, 02:16 PM
Given the history the Sox have had in the 2nd half of the season after playing well the first half I have no issue with Cabrera's comment. This is going to be a long race and it's going to come down to the last week of the season, especially if Cleveland hangs around. Sox play Cleveland 6 times the last 10 days of the season.

thomas35forever
07-12-2012, 02:16 PM
Let's see a starting pitcher of theirs not named Verlander break out.

34rancher
07-12-2012, 02:19 PM
I actually agree with the idea in his head. In the Tigers' minds, they have to be thinking that despite how bad they played for much of the first half of the season, they are one hot streak away from taking the division. It is what we would be saying if the situation was exactly reversed. We had 4 all stars and people playing to career years and they are still a 4 game series away from us. He's a competitor and knows there is a lot of baseball (and head to head) left to be played. He probably also knows that the Tigers will probably make a major trade or two to commit to the win. The Sox might be limited by budget a bit more than the sense of urgency that the Tigers ownership has.

No disrespect intended on his part is my take. Just how he sees it. And truthfully, I am curious to see how we play with pressure on us. IMO, we have a lot of question marks in a pressure situation.
I don't worry about Paulie, AJ, Alexei, Youk, and Sale in pressure. I am not as concerned about DeAza, Jake, or Tank. I am more concerned regarding Alex, Quintana, Humber, Gavin, and Gordon. I am terrified of Dunn in pressure. I know people roll their eyes at this, but I would bet against Dunn in any pressure situation (He's the Sox Sosa), just my opinion though.

doublem23
07-12-2012, 02:24 PM
I am terrified of Dunn in pressure. I know people roll their eyes at this, but I would bet against Dunn in any pressure situation (He's the Sox Sosa), just my opinion though.

I'm not rolling my eyes, I'm literally buckeld over, laughing uncontrollably.

Dunn always sucks under pressure.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/DET/DET201205050.shtml

34rancher
07-12-2012, 02:27 PM
I'm not rolling my eyes, I'm literally buckeld over, laughing uncontrollably.

Dunn always sucks under pressure.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/DET/DET201205050.shtml

There is no pressure on May 5th. Gimme a break. This guys tightens up and watches strike 3 hoping for a walk when games are on the line.

doublem23
07-12-2012, 02:32 PM
There is no pressure on May 5th. Gimme a break. This guys tightens up and watches strike 3 hoping for a walk when games are on the line.

1 out in the bottom of the 9th, down by a run and there's no pressure? I guess it's easy to win arguments when you get to make the rules.

:rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

You Dunn haters are a hoot. Thanks for never failing to deliver.

FoulTerritory
07-12-2012, 02:48 PM
1 out in the bottom of the 9th, down by a run and there's no pressure? I guess it's easy to win arguments when you get to make the rules.

:rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

You Dunn haters are a hoot. Thanks for never failing to deliver.

I don't think people here hate Dunn. It seems a lot of people are having a reasonable discussion about the probability of him getting back on track, ala April and May, and what the coaching staff can do to work through his struggles, both in terms of minimizing the damage to the team and getting him going again by working on his approach.

Furthermore, I've noticed that when disagreeing with people you often resort to laughing emoticons and eye rolls. Resorting to such patronizing rhetorical tactics is mere hyperbolic arrogance and is not effective nor respectful within the realm of healthy debate.

WhiteSox5187
07-12-2012, 02:50 PM
I'm not rolling my eyes, I'm literally buckeld over, laughing uncontrollably.

Dunn always sucks under pressure.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/DET/DET201205050.shtml

I honestly have no idea how Dunn does normally in clutch situations but I think more than one example would be needed to prove the argument either way.

doublem23
07-12-2012, 02:58 PM
I don't think people here hate Dunn.

I'm not saying everyone who is critical of Dunn hates him, but there is a thick segment of people who do really hate the way he plays ball because EEEEEEEEEEEWWW he strikes out.

It seems a lot of people are having a reasonable discussion about the probability of him getting back on track, ala April and May, and what the coaching staff can do to work through his struggles, both in terms of minimizing the damage to the team and getting him going again by working on his approach.

Good for those people. I have faith in Adam, Robin, and Manto.

Furthermore, I've noticed that when disagreeing with people you often resort to laughing emoticons and eye rolls. Resorting to such patronizing rhetorical tactics is mere hyperbolic arrogance and is not effective nor respectful within the realm of healthy debate.

And I'm willing to have rational, mature discussions with people who have rational opinions on subjects, but this is the same poster who at points last year blamed Dunn solely for the fact that he's never been on a winning team, as if he, 4% of a team's roster, is responsible for how ****ty the Reds and Nationals were when he was there. Dismissing his go-ahead 9th inning HR against Detroit as "not a pressure situation" because it was May is more of the same goofball nonsense. Much easier just to laugh that away and move on with life.

doublem23
07-12-2012, 03:01 PM
I honestly have no idea how Dunn does normally in clutch situations but I think more than one example would be needed to prove the argument either way.

No doubt, except the guy's generally over-the-top negative attitude about Dunn (that has existed long before this thread) was left wide open to being disproven by just 1 at bat. Just hope he didn't bet the farm against Adam that time.

I know people roll their eyes at this, but I would bet against Dunn in any pressure situation (He's the Sox Sosa), just my opinion though.

asindc
07-12-2012, 03:09 PM
Yawn. Nothing worth noting, really. In the history of the AL Central, Detroit has closed the deal once. They are in a good position to do it again this year. As he says, let's see.

Madvora
07-12-2012, 03:27 PM
I don't read it as him saying anything too inflammatory. Seems like a fair statement to me. Let's see how we finish (and I'm not saying this as a dark cloud).
Right I would expect a Sox player to say the same thing if someone else was in first place. Big deal.

DeadMoney
07-12-2012, 03:35 PM
I honestly have no idea how Dunn does normally in clutch situations but I think more than one example would be needed to prove the argument either way.

Well, the best two metrics of how much of a 'clutch' hitter a guy is (as least available ones), would be the following. But, since we're talking about a guy with a .242 BA, I'm going to exclude BA from the following stats. Additionally, that's just not the type of hitter he is. Anyway, here you go:
> 2 outs, RISP: 864 PAs, 38 HRs, .418 OBP, .845 OPS
> Late & Close*: 1046 PAs, 49 HRs, .372 OBP, .818 OPS
*Late & Close is PAs in the 7th or later with the batting team tied, ahead by one, or tying run at least on deck.
Those are pretty good stats considering what the guy is.

Boondock Saint
07-12-2012, 03:37 PM
I don't read it as him saying anything too inflammatory. Seems like a fair statement to me. Let's see how we finish (and I'm not saying this as a dark cloud).

Right I would expect a Sox player to say the same thing if someone else was in first place. Big deal.

My problem with it is that when you're treading water, just two games over .500 halfway through the season, you should worry about your own ship, not be talking about "Well, we'll just see how they finish". Two games over .500 isn't winning this division, so they'd better worry more about winning more games than hoping we start losing.

tstrike2000
07-12-2012, 03:38 PM
No harm, no foul really. Cabrera's statement is the case with any division. Tigers finished the first half on a strong note, but so did the Sox. Every team has questions and holes, but like Steve Stone pointed out, he's never really seen a team with as awful a defense as Detroit does, to go along with problems with the back-ends of their rotation and bullpen, and still compete for a playoff spot. I don't want to say it's our division to lose, but I believe it kind of is. We have a great defense and starting pitching and bullpen are pluses in our favor. If we stop scoring runs to put more pressure on our pitching, that will make it interesting. I hate the long road trip we have coming up, but that will be telling.

Johnny Mostil
07-12-2012, 03:48 PM
This is akin to KW's "Puts the Tigers in a better position to compete with us."

What else is he supposed to say?

I feel that ripping Cabrera here is a stones in glass houses type thing. There are a few people on the site here printing playoff tickets (just a few - not many).

Agree. I'm curious how the Sox will do over the next three weeks with 16 of 19 on the road. Not fretful, because they have played well on the road, but curious.

GoGoCrede
07-12-2012, 04:07 PM
What he said was very reasonable. He's right. That's the rational side of me talking. But the biased side of me is thinking, since he's on a rival team, I'll have no problem bookmarking this article so I can come back and gloat if he's wrong. :gulp:I am sure Tigers fans would do the same if one of our guys said something like this.

rdivaldi
07-12-2012, 04:31 PM
So how have we finished over the last 5 years since July 12th?

2011: 35- 35
2010: 39- 36
2009: 34- 40
2008: 35- 34
2007: 32- 43

From a historical perspective, these numbers are not encouraging. Hopefully Robin can lead us to a better finish than Ozzie did in the past.

jdm2662
07-12-2012, 04:32 PM
I attended the 7-4 game last year against KC. In the bottom of the eight inning, down by 1, Dunn came up with a runner on. Now, saying Dunn was terrible last year was an understatement. He hit a two run home run to take the lead. Not saying Dunn is mr. clutch or anything, but he came through in a big way that night. Of course, Santos gave up a lead off HR on the first pitch anyway...

kittle42
07-12-2012, 04:45 PM
These arguments are great:

"I shudder when Dunn is up in a pressure position."

"Oh, here's a game he walked off."

"That was in May."

So, let's establish some ground rules. Is a pressure situation a game in September, when your team is at least within 5 games, 7th inning or later, tied or down 1-3 runs, with RISP?

You may honestly find very few times in Dunn's career he has been in that situation, and none of us is going to take the time to do it, so what's the point?

TheOldRoman
07-12-2012, 05:18 PM
First off, this thread should have a Cowley warning. I wouldn't have opened the link if I knew it was a Cowley story. I don't know if any legitimate news outlets reported that quote, let along the pause and smile by Cabrera.

But if the article is accurate, meh. The Sox have done poorly in the second half over the past 7 seasons. They have to prove it on the field, but not to Cabrera. You know who else has done really poorly in the second half? The Tigers. They fell apart in 2006, just less so than the Sox. They had an epic collapse in 2009 which handed the Twins the division. Last year was the only time they actually did well in the second half. Let's not forget the embarrassment of the "best team evar!" in 2008 finishing in last place after acquiring Cabrera. I'd say that the Tigers have to prove it on the field just as much as the Sox do. We'll see who's better at the end of the season.

ChiSoxGal85
07-12-2012, 05:37 PM
First off, this thread should have a Cowley warning. I wouldn't have opened the link if I knew it was a Cowley story. I don't know if any legitimate news outlets reported that quote, let along the pause and smile by Cabrera.


Agreed and for that reason, I don't even click on any link that shows the SunTimes if I hover over it. Not any more.

Wedema
07-12-2012, 05:47 PM
First off, this thread should have a Cowley warning. I wouldn't have opened the link if I knew it was a Cowley story. I don't know if any legitimate news outlets reported that quote, let along the pause and smile by Cabrera.

But if the article is accurate, meh. The Sox have done poorly in the second half over the past 7 seasons. They have to prove it on the field, but not to Cabrera. You know who else has done really poorly in the second half? The Tigers. They fell apart in 2006, just less so than the Sox. They had an epic collapse in 2009 which handed the Twins the division. Last year was the only time they actually did well in the second half. Let's not forget the embarrassment of the "best team evar!" in 2008 finishing in last place after acquiring Cabrera. I'd say that the Tigers have to prove it on the field just as much as the Sox do. We'll see who's better at the end of the season.

Here is the same quote reported from a Michigan perspective:

http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2012/07/white_soxs_jake_peavy_ready_to.html

central44
07-12-2012, 06:04 PM
Detroit was supposed to run away with the Central in the SI world where the Sox win 67 games and pitching and defense don't matter. Nobody was anticipating the Sox having a better offense than Detroit despite the Tigers big hitters (Fielder, Cabrera, Jackson) not underachieving at all. Everyone anticipated Detroit's lack of pitching and defense, which have been major strengths for the Sox.

Up until this point, the Sox have had the best offense, defense, and pitching in the division. That's not a team that is winning with smoke and mirrors; that's a legitimatley good team. Hopefully the bats and pitching stay consistent--if they do, they should be in terrific shape. It seems like the only thing that could derail this team right now is a "corpseball" stretch.

spawn
07-12-2012, 10:12 PM
I don't think people here hate Dunn.
Maybe, but the poster that Dub is replying to has been consitent in his anti-Dunn stance.

Tragg
07-12-2012, 10:36 PM
We really need Danks back.

34rancher
07-13-2012, 12:35 AM
I'm not saying everyone who is critical of Dunn hates him, but there is a thick segment of people who do really hate the way he plays ball because EEEEEEEEEEEWWW he strikes out.

And I'm willing to have rational, mature discussions with people who have rational opinions on subjects, but this is the same poster who at points last year blamed Dunn solely for the fact that he's never been on a winning team, as if he, 4% of a team's roster, is responsible for how ****ty the Reds and Nationals were when he was there. Dismissing his go-ahead 9th inning HR against Detroit as "not a pressure situation" because it was May is more of the same goofball nonsense. Much easier just to laugh that away and move on with life.
Oh I've never hid my displeasure with the signing of a guy who is our highest paid offensive player on this team, who excluding a month and a half of this season, has statistically been amongst the worst players in baseball. I didn't like the signing the instant it was done. You chose to attack me for disliking strikeouts. We disagree on that. So what do you do? Choose to bash people who disagree with you, kinda like the time you bashed me as a "complete ****ing nut job would actually think that Jordan Danks or any other garbage in our fame system is some kind of building block for the future thats ready for regular MLB playing time" when I strongly disapproved of Fukudome. I'll admit I was incredibly negative about the sox chances this year. And I am glad I was wrong. I do worry what the impact of any injuries to a starter might do to the club. We've had guys have career years while the tigers have struggled. I do worry about the effects of 7/8 rookies in the pitching staff. I'll also say I have questioned peavy more than anyone and this year he has been great. And at 17 million, he better be.
I would love for Dunn to succeed, as it benefits the sox. And yeah, I do think a guy who is responsible for 4% of a roster can be blamed when they are taking anywhere from 11-14% of all the plate appearances (most on a team)of a team. I know you and others like to point to on base and OPS. While there are good walks, there are also very bad walks. For example a runner on 2nd or 3rd and 1 out. A base hit scores that run. A walk sets up a double play. I wonder how many double plays out of rios and Paulie's 22 double plays came because of a walk in front of them. I don't like that Dunn is looking to walk instead of hitting his chance at a decent pitch. To statistically ignore the impact of 311 strikeouts in 708 at bats is crazy in a white sox uniform. Do I think Dunn is a bad guy? No, but I just like contact hitters as a strong lineup. Go back and look at the Yankees run in the late 90s and early 2000s where they won 4 world series, despite not having one guy hit more than 30hrs in a steroid age. They went for high average contact situational hitters with good pitching. Or even 2005 where we were a contact hitting good pitching team. Power is important, but so is hitting the ball with consistency. Too many people are following a billy beane moneyball saber metric idea. Nothing wrong with that if it works for your organization. I just believe we need to commit to one philosophy for a lineup and I like consistent contact.
No doubt, except the guy's generally over-the-top negative attitude about Dunn (that has existed long before this thread) was left wide open to being disproven by just 1 at bat. Just hope he didn't bet the farm against Adam that time.
And while I appreciate the caring, I never bet on sports. But if I did, I do believe i would win that bet a lot more than I would lose.
Maybe, but the poster that Dub is replying to has been consitent in his anti-Dunn stance.
Yes I have been consistent. And when he was doing well, i complimented him and didnt say much at all about him. But In the last month, he's been terrible again and a designated out. I've taken a stance on this signing, the peavy trade, the sox this season, fukudome, Ohman (ugh), robin as a manager (happy about) and rios (which I really liked) waiver claim. Instead of just bashing others opinions, I have stated mine. Jeez, thats what I thought a message board was about. Sorry if my opinion is different than yours.

Nellie_Fox
07-13-2012, 01:51 AM
Maybe, but the poster that Dub is replying to has been consitent in his anti-Dunn stance.Perhaps, but calling people "haters" has become an extremely cheap and lazy way of dismissing anything they say. There are even cool graphics available to dismiss "haters."

kittle42
07-13-2012, 10:17 AM
Perhaps, but calling people "haters" has become an extremely cheap and lazy way of dismissing anything they say. There are even cool graphics available to dismiss "haters."

It's one of my most HATED recent slang words. :wink:

FoulTerritory
07-13-2012, 11:09 AM
Yawn. Nothing worth noting, really. In the history of the AL Central, Detroit has closed the deal once. They are in a good position to do it again this year. As he says, let's see.

I agree with this. It seems that since maybe the year 2000 more often than not when battling for a division title with the Tigers we fare better than when its the Twins who are in the hunt. Even in 2006 the tigers choked away the division and got in as the WC if I remember correctly.

To be honest, the Tigers look a lot like many recent White Sox teams with their slugging offense that is prone to synchronized slumping, and their shaky range-less defense. On paper they look awesome because of the big names in the middle of their lineup, but in reality they are very flawed and susceptible to a team with a little less talent and a little better fundamental skills (like the Sox, IMHO).

Frater Perdurabo
07-13-2012, 11:25 AM
I agree with the sentiment that the 2012 Tigers remind me of previous disappointing Sox teams, in that they could hit for a lot of power (but often slumped), were short one or two starting pitchers, and didn't play the field that well.

It should be an interesting pennant race.

MISoxfan
07-13-2012, 02:46 PM
Oh I've never hid my displeasure with the signing of a guy who is our highest paid offensive player on this team, who excluding a month and a half of this season, has statistically been amongst the worst players in baseball. I didn't like the signing the instant it was done. You chose to attack me for disliking strikeouts. We disagree on that. So what do you do? Choose to bash people who disagree with you, kinda like the time you bashed me as a "complete ****ing nut job would actually think that Jordan Danks or any other garbage in our fame system is some kind of building block for the future thats ready for regular MLB playing time" when I strongly disapproved of Fukudome. I'll admit I was incredibly negative about the sox chances this year. And I am glad I was wrong. I do worry what the impact of any injuries to a starter might do to the club. We've had guys have career years while the tigers have struggled. I do worry about the effects of 7/8 rookies in the pitching staff. I'll also say I have questioned peavy more than anyone and this year he has been great. And at 17 million, he better be.
I would love for Dunn to succeed, as it benefits the sox. And yeah, I do think a guy who is responsible for 4% of a roster can be blamed when they are taking anywhere from 11-14% of all the plate appearances (most on a team)of a team. I know you and others like to point to on base and OPS. While there are good walks, there are also very bad walks. For example a runner on 2nd or 3rd and 1 out. A base hit scores that run. A walk sets up a double play. I wonder how many double plays out of rios and Paulie's 22 double plays came because of a walk in front of them. I don't like that Dunn is looking to walk instead of hitting his chance at a decent pitch. To statistically ignore the impact of 311 strikeouts in 708 at bats is crazy in a white sox uniform. Do I think Dunn is a bad guy? No, but I just like contact hitters as a strong lineup. Go back and look at the Yankees run in the late 90s and early 2000s where they won 4 world series, despite not having one guy hit more than 30hrs in a steroid age. They went for high average contact situational hitters with good pitching. Or even 2005 where we were a contact hitting good pitching team. Power is important, but so is hitting the ball with consistency. Too many people are following a billy beane moneyball saber metric idea. Nothing wrong with that if it works for your organization. I just believe we need to commit to one philosophy for a lineup and I like consistent contact.

And while I appreciate the caring, I never bet on sports. But if I did, I do believe i would win that bet a lot more than I would lose.

Yes I have been consistent. And when he was doing well, i complimented him and didnt say much at all about him. But In the last month, he's been terrible again and a designated out. I've taken a stance on this signing, the peavy trade, the sox this season, fukudome, Ohman (ugh), robin as a manager (happy about) and rios (which I really liked) waiver claim. Instead of just bashing others opinions, I have stated mine. Jeez, thats what I thought a message board was about. Sorry if my opinion is different than yours.

Did you just blame Dunn for being on base and causing Rios/Konerko to GIDP? I believe you used they words "they came because of"

Sure a walk sets up a double play, just like a single. It also puts a runner on base to score.

Frater Perdurabo
07-13-2012, 03:09 PM
Sure a walk sets up a double play, just like a single. It also puts a runner on base to score.

But with RISP and first base open, a single is significantly better than a walk.

34rancher
07-13-2012, 03:19 PM
But with RISP and first base open, a single is significantly better than a walk.

With a runner on third and less than 2 outs, I don't want anyone (especially slow guys) walking unless they are completely pitched around. Dunn, who is a .74 ground ball to fly ball hitter is better with a fly ball and out than a walk setting up a potential double play. The walk helps his ops, the fly ball helps the team, and the k helps the other team. I saw swing away Merrill.

kittle42
07-13-2012, 03:24 PM
With a runner on third and less than 2 outs, I don't want anyone (especially slow guys) walking unless they are completely pitched around. Dunn, who is a .74 ground ball to fly ball hitter is better with a fly ball and out than a walk setting up a potential double play. The walk helps his ops, the fly ball helps the team, and the k helps the other team. I saw swing away Merrill.

Yeah, why would you ever want to load the bases, especially against a guy who just walked someone, and for your best hitter on deck?!

Given how much you dislike Dunn's hitting, you should be happy he walked.

And is there no onus on the next hitter to not hit a ground ball on the infield? I have heard Konerko has become a master of directional hitting.

Frater Perdurabo
07-13-2012, 03:30 PM
Yeah, why would you ever want to load the bases, especially against a guy who just walked someone, and for your best hitter on deck?!

Given how much you dislike Dunn's hitting, you should be happy he walked.

And is there no onus on the next hitter to not hit a ground ball on the infield? I have heard Konerko has become a master of directional hitting.

With RISP and first base open, obviously Dunn shouldn't swing at garbage way outside the zone. Nevertheless, his approach should be to make contact, preferably in the air. Even hitting a ground ball into the shift, where the second baseman fields the ball on the right field grass, likely would score a runner from third and/or advance the runner on second to third. The bottom line is that with RISP, Dunn generally should not be looking to work a walk.

kittle42
07-13-2012, 03:41 PM
With RISP and first base open, obviously Dunn shouldn't swing at garbage way outside the zone. Nevertheless, his approach should be to make contact, preferably in the air. Even hitting a ground ball into the shift, where the second baseman fields the ball on the right field grass, likely would score a runner from third and/or advance the runner on second to third. The bottom line is that with RISP, Dunn generally should not be looking to work a walk.

I do not disagree, but - and I am not trying to use hyperbole here - a few are acting as though a walk in that situation is as bad as (or even *causing*) a subsequent GIDPK.

Soxman219
07-13-2012, 06:08 PM
The Tigers are usually a bad second half team also. We'll see.

Tragg
07-13-2012, 06:50 PM
The bottom line is that with RISP, Dunn generally should not be looking to work a walk.
No problem at all with him doing that - he has Konerko and Rios behind him to drive the runs in.
A walk sure beats a groundout, even if it "Advances the runners". It also beats a Sac Fly - Konerko can hit those too.

Preferring ground outs to walk is the ozzie-ball we, thankfully, left behind.

Frater Perdurabo
07-13-2012, 08:19 PM
No problem at all with him doing that - he has Konerko and Rios behind him to drive the runs in.
A walk sure beats a groundout, even if it "Advances the runners". It also beats a Sac Fly - Konerko can hit those too.

Preferring ground outs to walk is the ozzie-ball we, thankfully, left behind.

With a runner on third and one out, I prefer an RBI groundout (or a sac fly) to a walk.

Boondock Saint
07-13-2012, 08:21 PM
With a runner on third and one out, I prefer an RBI groundout (or a sac fly) to a walk.

Having more runners on base is never a bad thing. I don't see how, if a batter hits into a double play after the preceding hitter takes a walk, you can blame the guy taking a walk for not doing his job adequately. If the pitcher gives you four pitches out of the zone, you should be taking a walk.

Frater Perdurabo
07-13-2012, 08:28 PM
Having more runners on base is never a bad thing. I don't see how, if a batter hits into a double play after the preceding hitter takes a walk, you can blame the guy taking a walk for not doing his job adequately. If the pitcher gives you four pitches out of the zone, you should be taking a walk.

I'm not blaming the guy who took a walk for the GIDP. But, if he was thrown any hittable pitches, I am blaming him for failing to plate the runner from third with less than two outs.

Boondock Saint
07-13-2012, 08:33 PM
I'm not blaming the guy who took a walk for the GIDP. But, if he was thrown any hittable pitches, I am blaming him for failing to plate the runner from third with less than two outs.

That's still excessive. He didn't get the best possible outcome, but he still did a good job. He got on base, made the pitcher work to do it, and left the clean up hitter in position to drive in that run, with the added possibility of driving in another.

MISoxfan
07-13-2012, 09:58 PM
But with RISP and first base open, a single is significantly better than a walk.

Of course, but if the question was actually how many of those 22 GIDPs came when Dunn walked with runners in scoring position, first base open, and less than two outs?

Probably not many. And its still the next hitters fault. The best part is that he's blaming Dunn not only for walking and not scoring the run, but also for the next guy failing to score the run as well.

Tragg
07-14-2012, 01:55 AM
With a runner on third and one out, I prefer an RBI groundout (or a sac fly) to a walk.

I'd agree if Dunn had Beckham, Hudson or Jordan Danks hitting behind him. But with Konerko and Rios perfectly capable of delivering a sac fly, I'll take the extra baserunner and a decent chance at a crooked number.

kittle42
07-14-2012, 11:02 AM
I'd agree if Dunn had Beckham, Hudson or Jordan Danks hitting behind him. But with Konerko and Rios perfectly capable of delivering a sac fly, I'll take the extra baserunner and a decent chance at a crooked number.

This is seriously the rational response here. I really think if you disagree with this, you've simply got it out for Dunn-type players.

sullythered
07-14-2012, 11:05 AM
I just checked in on this thread. Are there people arguing that Adam Dunn should be swinging at balls out of the strike zone?

Frater Perdurabo
07-14-2012, 11:38 AM
I just checked in on this thread. Are there people arguing that Adam Dunn should be swinging at balls out of the strike zone?

No, but with RISP and first base open, I don't want him taking meatball strikes hoping to work a walk.

kittle42
07-14-2012, 02:31 PM
I have a friend in softball who will purposely swing at a ball because he would rather hit the ball than walk. You guys would love him.

doublem23
07-14-2012, 04:39 PM
I have a friend in softball who will purposely swing at a ball because he would rather hit the ball than walk. You guys would love him.

Wait, but we don't like softball-style sluggers... I'm so confused right now

TheVulture
07-14-2012, 06:48 PM
Watching the Tigers post game show last night, it seemed like the players were feeling pretty good about themselves. No doubt they are licking their chops. Should be an interesting few weeks coming up.

AnkleSox
07-14-2012, 09:08 PM
I'd like to see how Miguel Cabrera finishes a diet.

Boondock Saint
07-14-2012, 09:57 PM
I'd like to see how Miguel Cabrera finishes a diet.

With a barrel of scotch.

FielderJones
07-14-2012, 11:15 PM
Watching the Tigers post game show last night, it seemed like the players were feeling pretty good about themselves. No doubt they are licking their chops. Should be an interesting few weeks coming up.

How were they on tonight's post game show?