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Jerry_Manuel
07-25-2002, 11:47 PM
From the Trib: (Have to sign up, so I'll post the important sections)

The Boston Globe reported the Red Sox can be expected to make a call to Sox general manager Ken Williams regarding Thomas, as well as starter Todd Ritchie. Both are available, as are most White Sox players, though Thomas would have to waive his no-trade rights to make a deal possible.

Boston's payroll is already more than $110 million, though general manager Mike Port has said he has not been told he can't spend more to go for a playoff spot. The Red Sox also reportedly are interested in acquiring Bartolo Colon and Cliff Floyd from the Expos in straight cash transactions, which Commissioner Bud Selig would have to approve.

The rest is crap about Williams driving him to the airport.

TheBigHurt
07-25-2002, 11:48 PM
oh no not Big Frank!!!!!!!!

Chisox_cali
07-25-2002, 11:50 PM
Hey if they want Ritchie they can go ahead, but I still want to hang on to Frank and have him retire in a Sox uni. Plus I don't know if the BoSox want to take on Franks Salary.

Tragg
07-25-2002, 11:58 PM
:) :KW

"We'll take Jose Offerman and his .233 BA, .320 OBP and SP for Frank Thomas. Just the man we need to fill loss of Durham. I think he'll have good chemistry with Royce. And to solidify the deal, we'll pay Frank's salary plus $500,000.

guillen4life13
07-26-2002, 12:01 AM
the frank thomas part really worries me.

oh ****... we all know that this is gonna be another screw up by our grade a general manager.

Chisoxfn
07-26-2002, 12:35 AM
IF we move Hurt, all I ask is for a front line pitching prospect, ie Damian Moss. I don't need a Brian Jordan in return, just an Odalis Perez. Come on KW, learn from what good old Evans did and just move the salary and attitude for a pitching prospect. I like Frank a lot, but I also realize he makes a ton and whines a lot.

I don't mind keeping him either, but I don't like DH's that can't play elsewhere so I'd like to have Lee go to DH(We could move him too) and see this team make some drastic changes. The only problem is the wrong man is in charge.

DVG
07-26-2002, 03:40 AM
He'll make that deal. In return we'll get Ted Williams, Carl Yas-
trzemski and Bill Buckner's glove from game 6 of the '86 series.

baggio202
07-26-2002, 06:09 AM
Originally posted by DVG
He'll make that deal. In return we'll get Ted Williams, Carl Yas-
trzemski and Bill Buckner's glove from game 6 of the '86 series.

thomas and ritchie for jesus pena and his 3-10 6.57 era at pawtucket....kw could then claim he is trying to recaputre some of the chemistry from the '00 team :whiner:

NUKE_CLEVELAND
07-26-2002, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
From the Trib: (Have to sign up, so I'll post the important sections)





The rest is crap about Williams driving him to the airport.

I would die laughing if the other sox team took this cancer off our hands. LOL!!!

:ritchie

"beantown here i come!"

WinningUgly!
07-26-2002, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by Chisox_cali
Hey if they want Ritchie they can go ahead, but I still want to hang on to Frank and have him retire in a Sox uni.

Sounds about right...
Ten years from now I'll be watching Frank Thomas' HOF ceremony & he'll be wearing a BoSox hat just like Pudge Fisk did.
http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/behead.gif

NUKE_CLEVELAND
07-26-2002, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!


Sounds about right...
Ten years from now I'll be watching Frank Thomas' HOF ceremony & he'll be wearing a BoSox hat just like Pudge Fisk did.
http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/behead.gif

Pudge was right to wear a bosox hat to the HOF. The way he was treated by Sox management nobody could blame him at all.

dougs78
07-26-2002, 08:36 AM
I don't care how you guys all came to this irrational hatred or lack of respect for Frank Thomas. This man is the best hitter in team history and among the best in league history. If you are really in favor of trading him away just for the sake of doing it and watching a rebuilding project, then I have to really question where your heart is.

I can certainly assure you that I not only hope, but I demand to see Frank in a White Sox jersey throughout the rest of his career and throughout eternity in Cooperstown.

I've been a White Sox fan my whole life and I can tell you about those lean years of 95-99....I would tune into Sox games and the only thing I would care to see was Frank Thomas bat. I would literally tune into a 3+ hour broadcast and then proceed to do whatever else I was doing around the house and only come back just to see Frank stand in the batters box. Some of you may have forgetten it, but he was THAT good.

And I can tell you that while I love the White Sox, if Kenny Williams is really as eager to move Frank as this article, and others, makes it seem then I would be finsished with this ballclub. I would hand in my subscription to the fan club and spend my days on other pursuits. Nothing I've read about the Whitesox in my life makes me as angry as this article. I refuse to read or listen to this garbage that proclaims that Frank Thomas means so little to this team or this city that his own bosses would be ecstatic just to drive him to the airport and get rid of him. That truly sickens me.

Jerry_Manuel
07-26-2002, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by dougs78
I refuse to read or listen to this garbage that proclaims that Frank Thomas means so little to this team or this city that his own bosses would be ecstatic just to drive him to the airport and get rid of him. That truly sickens me.

Here's some more from that article:

Williams declined to comment on the rumors, but there seems to be little doubt he personally would drive Thomas to Fenway Park and carry his suitcase into the clubhouse if the Red Sox were interested and Thomas is willing to go. Manager Jerry Manuel might even ride shotgun if it meant a controversy-free clubhouse.

No one knows whether Thomas would do that, even if it meant being on a contending team in Fenway Park, where he enjoys playing, and for a fan base that once gave him a loud ovation for a three-homer game there. Since saying he would waive his no-trade rights if the Sox didn't want him, Thomas has refused interview requests.

Williams could reconstruct the Sox, pare payroll and not have to worry about the annual Thomas-related brouhaha.

Thomas would have his contract guaranteed, the diminished-skills clauses removed and a fresh start playing in a new town at a hitter-friendly ballpark.

WinningUgly!
07-26-2002, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by dougs78
I don't care how you guys all came to this irrational hatred or lack of respect for Frank Thomas. This man is the best hitter in team history and among the best in league history. If you are really in favor of trading him away just for the sake of doing it and watching a rebuilding project, then I have to really question where your heart is.

I can certainly assure you that I not only hope, but I demand to see Frank in a White Sox jersey throughout the rest of his career and throughout eternity in Cooperstown.

I've been a White Sox fan my whole life and I can tell you about those lean years of 95-99....I would tune into Sox games and the only thing I would care to see was Frank Thomas bat. I would literally tune into a 3+ hour broadcast and then proceed to do whatever else I was doing around the house and only come back just to see Frank stand in the batters box. Some of you may have forgetten it, but he was THAT good.

And I can tell you that while I love the White Sox, if Kenny Williams is really as eager to move Frank as this article, and others, makes it seem then I would be finsished with this ballclub. I would hand in my subscription to the fan club and spend my days on other pursuits. Nothing I've read about the Whitesox in my life makes me as angry as this article. I refuse to read or listen to this garbage that proclaims that Frank Thomas means so little to this team or this city that his own bosses would be ecstatic just to drive him to the airport and get rid of him. That truly sickens me.

I'm with you in wanting to see Frank retire in a White Sox uniform, as long as the guy is productive & not a clubhouse distraction. I am not in the clubhouse, so I can't say what trouble he has caused there, but when a guy like PK starts speaking out against Frank, maybe it's time to move him. I was a Sox fan long before Frank Thomas came along & I'll be one after he moves on. In a perfect world the Sox would be winning championships year after year and we'd be watching Big Frank hoisting up the World Series trophy during champagne baths, but newsflash...our world ain't perfect. I will be pissed if Frank is traded away for peanuts. If Kenny Williams can't get a high quality major league player that would fill one of the White Sox many needs, or at the very least a top prospect or two...keep Frank around. I don't like the idea of downgrading at DH with Carlos Lee or Jeff Liefer in Thomas' place, but if Frank's production isn't going to be "Big Hurt-like" anymore, let's do what's best for the team & get something for him while we can. I'm as big of a Frank Thomas Fan as there is, but I sure as hell won't be able to stomach watching Frank become what Harold Baines was his last few seasons & he's shown plenty signs of that this season.

soxrme
07-26-2002, 09:14 AM
Please do not trade Frank. He will go to the hof wearing our hat.
Durham should have gone but to get nothing in return was horrible, Weaver???? Fisk can go screw himself, the fans all treated him great here and he shoved it up our but wearing the other cap.
But always remember, as a guy said on the score this morning "they froze the wrong Williams"!!!!!!!!!!!1 :angry:

WinningUgly!
07-26-2002, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by soxrme
Please do not trade Frank. He will go to the hof wearing our hat.
Durham should have gone but to get nothing in return was horrible, Weaver???? Fisk can go screw himself, the fans all treated him great here and he shoved it up our but wearing the other cap.
But always remember, as a guy said on the score this morning "they froze the wrong Williams"!!!!!!!!!!!1 :angry:

How can you blame Fisk for wearing a BoSox hat? He grew up a Red Sox fan, came into the league with them, went to the series with them, and will always be remembered for his game 6 HR in the '75 Series. Not to mention the way the White Sox "shoved it up his butt"...ooops, I guess I just mentioned it. :D:

soxrme
07-26-2002, 09:29 AM
He also left the Red Sox because of the way the management treated him there. He usually forgets to mention that.

Iwritecode
07-26-2002, 09:31 AM
Williams declined to comment on the rumors, but there seems to be little doubt he personally would drive Thomas to Fenway Park and carry his suitcase into the clubhouse if the Red Sox were interested and Thomas is willing to go. Manager Jerry Manuel might even ride shotgun if it meant a controversy-free clubhouse.

Ah yes, the Cubune barely has to write one paragraph to stir up Sox fans anymore do they? I keyed on the first sentence of this paragraph. Williams declined to comment (which means they have no proof that KW wants Frank out) on the rumors... So in other words they read in a Boston paper that the BoSox might be interested in Thomas so they automatically assume (which only makes an ass out of u and me) without a shred of proof, that management wants him out. I know that JR isn't the smartest baseball man in the world but he is a good businessman. Even though some might think Thomas is over-paid, he is still a great hitter. I don't think JR will risk destroying half his fan base by trading one of the most popular (and one of the best) current Sox players.

Paulwny
07-26-2002, 09:37 AM
I don't know if this is true. I heard Fisk offered to wear either cap into the hall, depending on which team offered him the most $$$.

soxtalker
07-26-2002, 09:58 AM
I'm curioius as to the Boston perspective. From what I've been reading over the past few weeks on this board and in the newspapers, it sounds like there is a very limited market for Frank because of the huge risk that a 4-year contract imparts to his new team (not to mention his sub-par season so far).

Now, Frank has started to hit, so that makes the deal easier for Boston to swallow. Also, they are in a tough fight for either the East (fading from Yankees) and wildcard (with two of Oakland, Angels, Seattle). We just helped the A's look more competitive, so that probably puts some pressure on the Red Sox.

One thing that does trouble me is that Boston supposedly has little to deal -- their farm system makes ours look well-stocked. Does anyone know details of their situation?

DrWatson27
07-26-2002, 10:31 AM
Boston is interested in Thomas or any other 1st baseman who can hit (like Thome) because they are struggling to find one from the people they alread have (Tony Clark & others).

As far as trading Thomas, I'd hate to see him go but if we can get a potential superstar position player and a good pitching prospect then I'm all for it.

Better yet: if a package deal with Richie is available I'll take just about anything to get rid of that useless piece of crap! That would make any deal an upgrade by subtraction, now if they could only throw Royce into the deal. :D:

Cheryl
07-26-2002, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by soxrme
He also left the Red Sox because of the way the management treated him there. He usually forgets to mention that.

Yeah, but the Red Sox made it up to him later, while JR and crew couldn't be bothered.

MarkEdward
07-26-2002, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by DrWatson27
As far as trading Thomas, I'd hate to see him go but if we can get a potential superstar position player and a good pitching prospect then I'm all for it.


Well, that's the problem. The Red Sox have nobody of that caliber in their farm system.

BTW, I'm all for trading Ritchie. Thomas should stay in a Sox uniform for the rest of his career.

Tragg
07-26-2002, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by DrWatson27


As far as trading Thomas, I'd hate to see him go but if we can get a potential superstar position player and a good pitching prospect then I'm all for it.

:D:

Me too. But that has ZERO chance of happening. It will be a giveaway deal if anything. And it won't happen because thomas is way too expensive for anyone via trade.

LongDistanceFan
07-26-2002, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Cheryl


Yeah, but the Red Sox made it up to him later, while JR and crew couldn't be bothered.

it wasn't that they couldn't make up, JR tried but was rebuff by fisk. it was many yrs later and shortly after bos approach him to work for them. fisk mention that it would've taken a offer of an apology but it came too late.

no money was ever mention.

JoseCanseco6969
07-26-2002, 12:15 PM
I dont understand the Frank Thomas sympathy here. A few weeks ago everyone wanted him off the team! Now he has a 3 game HR streak and everyone is kissing his butt and crying about keeping him a sox for the rest of his career. I'm sorry but I guess I still feel the same about Thomas as before, we dont need a non team player on our team thats gonna whine all the time. He maybe has 2 good years left and i believe we'd be smart as hell to move him and throw a Ritchie and/or a Clayton in the deal to clear us of garbage. Frank was a great player for the White Sox and probably the best we've ever had. But the key word there is WAS. He is a the end of his career and would fit perfect in Boston. Our season is over and so is probably the next 2 of rebuilding. We need to take advantage of this now while we ill can get someone in return, i just hope it isnt the crap we got for Durham.

LongDistanceFan
07-26-2002, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969
I dont understand the Frank Thomas sympathy here. A few weeks ago everyone wanted him off the team! Now he has a 3 game HR streak and everyone is kissing his butt and crying about keeping him a sox for the rest of his career. I'm sorry but I guess I still feel the same about Thomas as before, we dont need a non team player on our team thats gonna whine all the time. He maybe has 2 good years left and i believe we'd be smart as hell to move him and throw a Ritchie and/or a Clayton in the deal to clear us of garbage. Frank was a great player for the White Sox and probably the best we've ever had. But the key word there is WAS. He is a the end of his career and would fit perfect in Boston. Our season is over and so is probably the next 2 of rebuilding. We need to take advantage of this now while we ill can get someone in return, i just hope it isnt the crap we got for Durham.

so by your statement, we owe no loyalty to anyone? i keep thinking that statement was wrong, but the players feel that way b/c of the almighty dollar. so who is right and who is wrong. is there or should there be any loyalty in baseball or for that fact in any sports team?

i will stand by my statements that i said in the past. i still think that frank should retire as a sox.

RKMeibalane
07-26-2002, 01:20 PM
Knowing Williams, he will probably trade Frank for Rickey Henderson, claiming that the Sox problems in left field will be solved.

ChiSoxBobette
07-26-2002, 02:24 PM
What worries me is that everything I've heard about Franks injury taking time to heal and now he seems to be getting his hitting stroke back then we trade him away to Boston and he leads them to the playoffs. That would just about make my year with K.W. and it would be something K.W. would do and have it blowup in our faces. Now if he could convince the BoSox to take Ritchie off our hands thats another story, hopefully before Sundays game against K.C. because I have tickets to that game and I've seen enough of Todd Ritchie this year to know that before we can get up to bat we will be down by 4 or 5 runs, so K.W. if you could work out a trade for our 5 & 14 pitcher that would be nice ,getting rid of Frank now well I hope its just not one of those BIGGGGGGG mistakes we come to regret as White Sox fans.
Go White Sox

DaveGusinSeattle
07-26-2002, 03:36 PM
"What worries me is that everything I've heard about Franks injury taking time to heal and now he seems to be getting his hitting stroke back then we trade him away to Boston and he leads them to the playoffs."

Exactly! Hard to imagine that they would trade Frank and loose 1/3 fans at least. Ritchie and Clayton can go... look out
:whoflungpoo

HawkDJ
07-26-2002, 05:02 PM
Sportscenter just said in its intro "Is Frank Thomas in for a change of socks?"

If KW can actually get a good deal out of this I'm all for it. But if we get a AAA player, I'd rather see Hurt retire as a White Sox thank you very much.

RKMeibalane
07-26-2002, 05:05 PM
If the White Sox trade Frank Thomas, I will find Reinsdorf and cut him into a million pieces. Frank was the reason I became a Sox fan in the first place. Losing him would prove to the rest of the baseball community how pathetic the team's front office is. With clowns like Reinsdorf and Williams running the show, things are bound to get much worse before they get better.

Keystone Combo
07-26-2002, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by dougs78
I don't care how you guys all came to this irrational hatred or lack of respect for Frank Thomas. This man is the best hitter in team history and among the best in league history. If you are really in favor of trading him away just for the sake of doing it and watching a rebuilding project, then I have to really question where your heart is.

I can certainly assure you that I not only hope, but I demand to see Frank in a White Sox jersey throughout the rest of his career and throughout eternity in Cooperstown.

I've been a White Sox fan my whole life and I can tell you about those lean years of 95-99....I would tune into Sox games and the only thing I would care to see was Frank Thomas bat. I would literally tune into a 3+ hour broadcast and then proceed to do whatever else I was doing around the house and only come back just to see Frank stand in the batters box. Some of you may have forgetten it, but he was THAT good.

And I can tell you that while I love the White Sox, if Kenny Williams is really as eager to move Frank as this article, and others, makes it seem then I would be finsished with this ballclub. I would hand in my subscription to the fan club and spend my days on other pursuits. Nothing I've read about the Whitesox in my life makes me as angry as this article. I refuse to read or listen to this garbage that proclaims that Frank Thomas means so little to this team or this city that his own bosses would be ecstatic just to drive him to the airport and get rid of him. That truly sickens me.

I agree with you........ Frank Thomas MUST stay, I've been defending him here it seems like forever....... we will be SO sorry if we let him go........ God, somebody has to get rid of Kenny Williams before he ruins the complete southside. He must be getting money under the table from the Tribune company.... nobody can be this stupid~~~~~ Keep Frank!!! Let him retire in the White Sox uniform, do not end up messing this up like you did with Carlton Fisk Jerry!!!!

Keystone Combo
07-26-2002, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!


I am not in the clubhouse, so I can't say what trouble he has caused there, but when a guy like PK starts speaking out against Frank, maybe it's time to move him.

This is part of the problem, the perception of Frank Thomas, Paulie should shut up and act like a professional and keep the crap in the clubhouse instead of running his mouth of to the media which is biased against the White Sox to begin with.

Even if Thomas did do what Konerko said........ he should never of have created that doubt in your mind by opening his mouth. Not cool to run off at the mouth about a teammate and Paulie sure hasn't done enough in a White Sox uniform to decide that leadership should be running his mouth off to the media instead of letting management (joke) take care of it.

Paulie didn't help things when the team has played so badly all year......... to take it out of the clubhouse. I'm sure lots more has happened inside the clubhouse involving others that we haven't heard about and won't hear about.

Frank is just starting to hit the ball again HARD..... we should be building around Thomas, Maggs, and Konerko not subtracting from it........ besides who could possibly pick up those numbers that he is capable of. Don't be silly, don't wish Frank out of town.

Iguana775
07-26-2002, 06:21 PM
if we get rid of ritchie in the deal, then the might lessen the blow of losing Big Frank. the guy is prolly the best hitter in club history and everyone seems to be turning on him. this pisses me off. i dont want anything less then a top, and i mean TOP, prospects or 3, or Nomar. i just know that frank will have a monster year next year with the other sox if traded.

TheGipper
07-26-2002, 06:40 PM
After the hand job we got from Oakland for Durham, I bet KW trades Thomas to the Redsox for a hooker and a 12 pack of beer.

cornball
07-26-2002, 07:03 PM
WSCR is reporting a Castillo and Daubach for Frank and Richie with the Sox picking up part of FT salary....this is sick

The issue is not the trades it is what is in return.....you can't win in this league on a 60MM dollar budget.....you can't.....

soxtalker
07-26-2002, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by Iguana775
if we get rid of ritchie in the deal, then the might lessen the blow of losing Big Frank. the guy is prolly the best hitter in club history and everyone seems to be turning on him. this pisses me off. i dont want anything less then a top, and i mean TOP, prospects or 3, or Nomar. i just know that frank will have a monster year next year with the other sox if traded.

I was also willing to accept some good prospects, though it isn't clear that the Boston system has many of these. However, I was listening to the score a few minutes ago, and they had a scary report. A trade that had been supposedly been proposed (by whom???) was Frank and Todd for a couple of current players on the Boston's roster (not among their best). And the Sox would have to send some money to pay part of Frank's salary.

I'm actually one of the people who wouldn't mind seeing a good trade for Frank. Hopefully, it would be good for him, and I'd like to get some good prospects. If the sentiment expressed on this board today is any indication, there are a lot of people who won't be happy with any Thomas trade. However, if they pull off a trade that is anything like that being reported on the score, virtually all Sox fans will be furious.

Now, I was also listening to WMVP a little earlier, and the local guys didn't seem to think that a trade of Frank was imminent. They were, however, talking about Lofton and, possibly, Howry being sent to San Francisco soon.

Daver
07-26-2002, 07:08 PM
Anything you hear on the Score should be considered suspect,that radio station is the National Enquirer of sports radio.

Jerry_Manuel
07-26-2002, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
However, I was listening to the score a few minutes ago, and they had a scary report. A trade that had been supposedly been proposed (by whom???) was Frank and Todd for a couple of current players on the Boston's roster (not among their best). And the Sox would have to send some money to pay part of Frank's salary.


With Williams making the deals you shouldn't be scared. Just be prepared for it to be bad.

As for that Red Sox rumored deal, the WSox would want cheap guys in return. Not expensive trash like Castillo.

LongDistanceFan
07-26-2002, 08:10 PM
and this bring me to thinking of hal's report. is JR trying to drive the fan base away in order to move them?

Daver
07-26-2002, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
and this bring me to thinking of hal's report. is JR trying to drive the fan base away in order to move them?

Move them where?

The Expos will probably move to DC,what other viable markets are out there?

doublem23
07-26-2002, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by daver


Move them where?

The Expos will probably move to DC,what other viable markets are out there?

:reinsy
Brooklyn!

cornball
07-26-2002, 08:21 PM
Castillo is a FA at the end of the year......so again if it happened nothing in return....the point is yes we would love to have Frank but at 10MM per.....on a 60MM alledged budget...you cant win win him......

LongDistanceFan
07-26-2002, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by daver


Move them where?

The Expos will probably move to DC,what other viable markets are out there? since i am not privy to any of the other cities that might be interested. i am sure if there is a mention of a baseball team looking into moving, the cities should or would let the mlb of their desires.

however, off the top of my head, new orleans.

Daver
07-26-2002, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
since i am not privy to any of the other cities that might be interested. i am sure if there is a mention of a baseball team looking into moving, the cities should or would let the mlb of their desires.

however, off the top of my head, new orleans.

New Orleans has the population to support an MLB team,but do they have the interest?

Neither of the Florida teams draw,Atlanta is always a playoff team,but they can't even sell out playoff games.

The southeast is more interested in college football and NASCAR than they are in baseball,and with the problems MLB is having now I don't see that changing at all.

LongDistanceFan
07-26-2002, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by daver


New Orleans has the population to support an MLB team,but do they have the interest?

Neither of the Florida teams draw,Atlanta is always a playoff team,but they can't even sell out playoff games.

The southeast is more interested in college football and NASCAR than they are in baseball,and with the problems MLB is having now I don't see that changing at all.

when the hornets were thinking of moving, new orleans mayor or someone said that they were interested in them and possible even another sports team. i took that into being another sports other than football and basketball.

soxtalker
07-26-2002, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
and this bring me to thinking of hal's report. is JR trying to drive the fan base away in order to move them?

I just don't see it. There are a lot of cities that might be interested in having a MLB team -- for a short time. Being able to sustain one is another matter. Take a look at Tampa Bay, which is where the Sox were going to move a dozen years ago. They got their franchise, and now it is one of the ones being looked at for contraction.

One suggestion that I have heard regarding the competitive balance that I find interesting is that of moving another franchise into NYC (or NJ or Long Island). Now, the Mets and Yankees would fight this tooth and nail, and it would be particularly hard on the Mets. However, it does strike at the heart of the matter -- the NYC teams have a lot bigger fan base than anyone else.

Chicago shouldn't be all that badly placed in this regard. Yes, the Cubs are the favored team, but that is somewhat mitigated when the Sox win. (Having a GM who has made terrible decisions just doesn't help anything.) In the end, I think that JR is right when he says that he would have been better off if he had been allowed to build a ball park in Addison 15 years ago. In the next 10 years, however, he is probably located in a section of the city which should be experiencing a rebirth, and that can only be good for the Sox. (Reinsdorf has stated something to that effect.)

Ol Aches & Pains
07-26-2002, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan


so by your statement, we owe no loyalty to anyone?

In 1995, the Sox briefly allowed the fans to witness the sacred ritual of batting pratice before the game, about 5:15 PM. But after a couple of weeks, Thomas started whining that it was upsetting his routine, so the team gave in in stopped allowing the fans in early. In a few weeks, these spoiled brats will be on strike, how loyal will you feel then? I'm willing to throw in Frank Thomas just to be rid of Todd Ritchie, though why Boston wants him, Lord only knows. :?:

kevingrt
07-26-2002, 10:41 PM
If I heard correct WSCR said it might be going down soon...

Jerry_Manuel
07-26-2002, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by kevingrt
If I heard correct WSCR said it might be going down soon...

WSCR isn't the best source for news.

RKMeibalane
07-26-2002, 10:45 PM
I hope not. If the Sox trade Frank Thomas, I will cry. In Fenway Park, Frank could probably have his first fifty-homer season in 2003.

Jerry_Manuel
07-26-2002, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I hope not. If the Sox trade Frank Thomas, I will cry. In Fenway Park, Frank could probably have his first fifty-homer season in 2003.

All rumors and speculation, RK.

If he was the media would be all over Williams. Even though they hate him, they'd be on his ass.

RKMeibalane
07-26-2002, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
If he was the media would be all over Williams. Even though they hate him, they'd be on his ass.

I hope Williams is kidnapped by aliens tonight. That will prevent him from messing up this team anymore than he already has.

rwschm_bull
07-26-2002, 11:24 PM
New Orleans!!

ROTFL....!!

They have trouble, in a relative football hotbed, selling 10 dates a year for the friggin Saints.

81 home dates for a baseball team... how many minor league teams have struggled and bailed ship from that town?

The Hornets aren't exactly being run by the brightest bulb in the NBA -- you sell out the friggin Hive year-in-year-out in a basketball frenzied environment and you piss that away...???!!! After drawing about three busloads of tourists for the past two years, ANYTHING they draw in the Crescent City will seem like SRO!

Lets just put all this "they're trying to move the Sox" talk into the trash can where it belongs -- between contraction and/or getting the Expos and DevilRays/Marlins into a supportive market there aren't going to be any other teams allowed to pull up stakes -- I don't think baseball is going to become the USFL or WFL overnight and move teams into Shreveport and Portland and Birmingham, or Memphis, etc., etc...

PaleHoseGeorge
07-26-2002, 11:48 PM
Mexico City.

Sure, they're poor. But when you have 100 million suckers to choose from, you only need the top 1 percent to rake in the cash.

Problem solved. Reinsdorf is out of here.

rwschm_bull
07-27-2002, 12:03 AM
The slums in Mexico City make the worst sections of Chicago look like Motel 6.

A city with a higher altitude than Denver and the worst SMOG in the world...

The Cowboys have been to Mexico City the last couple years for an ex-game in the Stadium they built to host the olympics back in '68.

While the organization won't bad-mouth it because they get a nice pay-day from the league and get an extra game/workout without having to bilk the season ticket holder for ANOTHER meaningless game, the players all roll their eyes when asked about the experience -- horrible field, small college facilities, and despite the NFL Buzz they're given page five of the sports page. Maybe if they moved the Fire...

The games in San Juan and Monterrey the past few years "worked" because they were one-shot deals -- there's just no way anybody in their right mind is going to move a team into that environment. The economics simply don't add up -- the Mexican middleclass is tiny, the lower class is huge and simply can't afford it, and compared to soccer, baseball, while a "major" sport, is a distant second -- probably akin to Hockey in the deep South -- (not snowbird-laced Florida) -- Alabama, Mississippi, South Georgia.

bc2k
07-27-2002, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by Keystone Combo


This is part of the problem, the perception of Frank Thomas, Paulie should shut up and act like a professional and keep the crap in the clubhouse instead of running his mouth of to the media which is biased against the White Sox to begin with.

Even if Thomas did do what Konerko said........ he should never of have created that doubt in your mind by opening his mouth. Not cool to run off at the mouth about a teammate and Paulie sure hasn't done enough in a White Sox uniform to decide that leadership should be running his mouth off to the media instead of letting management (joke) take care of it.


Maybe Konerko wanted to let the Sox fans know that the whole team isn't a bunch of lazy, overpaid, crybabies with attitude.

You talk of perception of Frank Thomas, but what about the perception of the Sox as a team. Had Konerko not answered the press honestly, Sox fans may have felt that the whole team had given up and not realize that there was just one quitter in Thomas.

As the player with the longest tenure on the team, many fans look to Thomas to lead the team with his mouth and bat. And when he hibernates from his teammates and fans, shows up late to practice, and whines about not playing, fans assume that the whole team quits like Thomas.

So Konerko spoke up for his team, letting Thomas and us fans know that Thomas' attitude will not be condoned and is not what Sox baseball stands for - well maybe Red Sox baseball.

Nellie_Fox
07-27-2002, 02:21 AM
Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969
I dont understand the Frank Thomas sympathy here. A few weeks ago everyone wanted him off the team!Do you even read the threads? There is no way "everyone" wanted him off the team. In fact, if you go back and read them again, I think you'll find the "dump Frank" posters to be in the minority.

I, along with a lot of other regular posters, have been consistent in decrying the "what have you done for me lately" attitude of the Frank blasters, and saying that he has earned a lot more loyalty from Sox fans than he has been given.

I mentioned this in another thread the other day, but as for cities that baseball could move to, think Elvis: "Viva, Las Vegas." It's the largest American city without a pro sports franchise.

baggio202
07-27-2002, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by daver


New Orleans has the population to support an MLB team,but do they have the interest?

Neither of the Florida teams draw,Atlanta is always a playoff team,but they can't even sell out playoff games.

The southeast is more interested in college football and NASCAR than they are in baseball,and with the problems MLB is having now I don't see that changing at all.

there is a ground swell starting in the pac -nw for getting portland a franchise...thats has the been the fastest growing cirty in america for the last 5 years and its metro area is 2nd in size only to DC for cities that dont have a major league team..they just went past indianapolis...they need to either build a stadium or upgrade where the portland beavers play..i used to live there and still talk to friends back there and papers have been saying for about 6 months that multi - millionaire and blazer owner paul allen is considering purchasing a franchise and footing the bill for a stadium with very little tax payer support...

with the success of the mariners i believe that area could support another team

Tragg
07-27-2002, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by daver


New Orleans has the population to support an MLB team,but do they have the interest?

.

That would be a negative. Although Tulane and LSU hold the record for single game college baseball attendance set this spring in the Superdome.
The real problem is economic base. That is changing, but as of now, they simply don't have a base that can support the necessary 20K or so season ticket purchases.
Basektball is going to be tough and is going to pull and use a lot of those type of available funds from just about every breathing corporation around. Now baseball is affordable to the average fan, while the NBA isn't - still MLB would be a tough go

But, it would be okay by me.

idseer
07-27-2002, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox

I, along with a lot of other regular posters, have been consistent in decrying the "what have you done for me lately" attitude of the Frank blasters, and saying that he has earned a lot more loyalty from Sox fans than he has been given.


this probably won't be a popular opinion ... but 'loyalty' has no place in the game of baseball!

the object of the game is to win, and that means making short or long term decisions that you deem best to that end.
you generally try to use the best players you can get, you try to keep moral high, in short anything it takes to field a winner.

and if the determination is made that frank is more a hinderance than a help (and i'm not making that judgment), you get rid of him. i don't care if he's a one-time star or not!
what fool would 'sink' with his loyal friends in a business rather than make the good tough decisions?

if you're so hung up on a player that you'd hurt your own team JUST to be loyal, you're not a team fan ... you're just that player's fan (and the fact remains you can continue to root for that player).

Paulwny
07-27-2002, 09:21 AM
Today's Boston Globe: nothing about Frank

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/208/sports/Sox_on_lookout_as_deadline_approaches+.shtml

LongDistanceFan
07-27-2002, 09:33 AM
what was asked is to name a city where they might want a baseball team. read my post from earlier in the thread. i never said that they, the sox were going there. so i mention the city of new orleans wanting another sports team to go with the basketball team. whether or not it can survive is not part of this conversation. in actuality, the cities who may want a team there, should know of those facts.

as nellie mention vegas is an interesting city for a future baseball site. wasn't it several yrs ago that the sox held a exhibition game there during spring training?

LongDistanceFan
07-27-2002, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by idseer




so we should not owe any loyalty to the team or to the players. is that what you are saying.

by that we should be fans with those idiots on the northside as well.

i think not. definition fan = loyalty.

Cheryl
07-27-2002, 09:58 AM
New Orleans has a minor league team:

http://www.zephyrsbaseball.com

Kilroy
07-27-2002, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by idseer


this probably won't be a popular opinion ... but 'loyalty' has no place in the game of baseball!

Remember this post after you've worked at some job for 25 years, and they decide to toss you out on your ass. They'll tell you that they "eliminated your position" but in reality, they just wanted to give your job to someone else because they could pay them less. The bottom line is all that matters. Loyalty has no place.

Certain players earn a loyalty from their clubs. They deserve to be treated better and given special consideration. And professional sports should be smart enuf to enact some type of veteran's exception so that players like Jerry Rice don't have to go to the Raiders. I hate Jerry Rice, but he should have been able to play for the 9ers until he quit.

Trading Frank Thomas is a sick thought, ESPECIALLY W/ KENNY WILLIAMS DOING THE TRADING!!

You can't possibly make a deal that's worth it. And if you felt sick with how Kip Wells turned after getting traded, think how you'll feel when Thomas is traded and turns in a few more seasons like 2K.

I think Hurt has earned that type of loyalty, and I hope that he uses his 5/10 right to keibash any hair-brained trade that KW pulls out of his ass...

mrwag
07-27-2002, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by idseer

and if the determination is made that frank is more a hinderance than a help (and i'm not making that judgment), you get rid of him. i don't care if he's a one-time star or not!
what fool would 'sink' with his loyal friends in a business rather than make the good tough decisions?

if you're so hung up on a player that you'd hurt your own team JUST to be loyal, you're not a team fan ... you're just that player's fan (and the fact remains you can continue to root for that player).
Sorry, but that's total B.S. Do you guys actualy think that if we get rid of Frank, we'll all of a sudden be a major contender and win the World Series any time soon? We'll trade Frank for a bag of balls, then be even worse. We will not pick up someone who will put us over the top.

The best thing management can do is keep Frank. Don't piss off the fan base any more than they already have. We're not going to be a major contender anyway, so why not keep him? Its not like he's keeping anyone else from DH'ing thats worth a darn anyway.

That's what's wrong with baseball today, and all of sports. No loyalty from either side. Let's keep Frank and let him retire a White Sox. Don't make the same mistake we made with Fisk. What else do we have to hold on to at this point? We will NEVER contend with the Yankees, Mariners, Braves, etc. so long as the system is the way it is now. Frank will return to near his old numbers, bet on it. He's our only "superstar". Getting rid of him will only hurt the Sox image in Chicago.

OEO Magglio
07-27-2002, 12:16 PM
I would be sad to see Thomas go, but I would like to win some time, and if it means giving up Thomas, will then we have to do it if the right deal comes around, but then again KW is doing the trading, so even if the right deal comes along KW wouldn't realize it.

Jerry_Manuel
07-27-2002, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by mrwag
The best thing management can do is keep Frank. Don't piss off the fan base any more than they already have.

There are a lot of people in Chicago who want him out of town. I don't think the backlash would be as bad as people make it out to be.

RKMeibalane
07-27-2002, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


There are a lot of people in Chicago who want him out of town. I don't think the backlash would be as bad as people make it out to be.

There's just one problem with that situation. Frank has started to hit again. If he continues to play well for the remainder of the season and puts together Frank Thomas-like numbers next season, I'm sure most of the people who are trying to run him out of town will be the first ones trashing Kenny Williams for trading Thomas. That's what bothers me.

Too many people are upset with Frank because of the problems the Sox are having this season. Most of them are using his lack of production in the first half as an excuse for this team's poor play. I'm sure a lot of people would be glad to see him get traded RIGHT NOW, but some of those same people will be complaining next season if he has a big year.

StepsInSC
07-27-2002, 03:23 PM
If we trade Frank to Boston, then Boston will win the World Series this year, Frank will have 8 more years of numbers similar to his 90s numbers, and the Boston curse will be TRANSFERRED to the Chicago White Sox.

I don't think the backlash would be as bad as people make it out to be.

I think the greatest hitter to wear a Sox uniform being dealt away would create a noticeable amount of people no longer supporting the team. I would be one of those people.

Dammit if they're going to trade away Frank at least trade him to Atlanta where he'll be playing close to where I live and I'll be able to see him play and see him play often.

Cheryl
07-27-2002, 03:26 PM
Well I don't want Frank traded. He's quit talking to the press and started hitting the ball again. That's all he needs to be doing.

soxtalker
07-27-2002, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane

I'm sure a lot of people would be glad to see him get traded RIGHT NOW, but some of those same people will be complaining next season if he has a big year.

It works both ways. As you point out, if the Sox trade him, and he returns to the old Frank Thomas form, people will complain bitterly that he shouldn't have been traded. On the other hand, say they don't trade him, but it becomes clear that they were close. Then, if he continues to struggle, fans will be unhappy that we missed the opportunity to move him.

RKMeibalane
07-27-2002, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl
Well I don't want Frank traded. He's quit talking to the press and started hitting the ball again. That's all he needs to be doing.

Agreed. Frank should not be traded. If he is, the already-dwindling White Sox fan base will shrink even more. Losing one of the most popular players this franchise has ever had would be a tremendous loss that the Sox may never recover from, given the problems they are already having with attendance at games.

Furthermore, I think the media have forgotten that Frank Thomas is a professional baseball player. He is not an actor. He is payed to hit a baseball and be successful doing so at least thirty percent of the time. He is not payed to talk to the media. That is not part of his job description.

Frankly, I don't care if Thomas never says aything to media for the rest of his life as long as he continues to play well, as he has been doing of late.

Jerry_Manuel
07-27-2002, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Agreed. Frank should not be traded. If he is, the already-dwindling White Sox fan base will shrink even more. Losing one of the most popular players this franchise has ever had would be a tremendous loss that the Sox may never recover from, given the problems they are already having with attendance at games.

Furthermore, I think the media have forgotten that Frank Thomas is a professional baseball player. He is not an actor. He is payed to hit a baseball and be successful doing so at least thirty percent of the time. He is not payed to talk to the media. That is not part of his job description.

Frankly, I don't care if Thomas never says aything to media for the rest of his life as long as he continues to play well, as he has been doing of late.

If they trade him, most of the media will bill it as Williams' best trade. The media hates Frank Thomas. Some of it is because he dislikes them, the rest of it is due to stupid comments and dumb things he has done. I'd say about 45% of fans will say it is a good idea to trade him. The trade itself in terms of who the WSox get back will be awful.

I want to see Frank on a winner. The next few years the Sox will not be a winner, they'll be rebuilding and young.