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View Full Version : *Official* 6-25 Dump Dome Dork Shots Work Outdoors, Too; MIN 4 SOX 1 Postgamer


Frater Perdurabo
06-25-2012, 10:12 PM
Just another typical loss to these bastards

CoopaLoop
06-25-2012, 10:13 PM
I question Ventura putting Youk into the 2 hole immediately. I'd love for him to hit well enough to earn that, but not crazy about that right away.

JB98
06-25-2012, 10:16 PM
Really bad game by the White Sox in all facets. Based on how the game went, they should have lost 11-1. The only reason they remained in the game is because Minnesota sucks. A good team blows the Sox off the field tonight.

The whole lineup is slumping right now. They were all hot together about three or four weeks ago. Now, they are all cold together. The only blessing is they still have a slim lead in the division, and there's no reason to quit while you're ahead.

Frater Perdurabo
06-25-2012, 10:16 PM
I question Ventura putting Youk into the 2 hole immediately. I'd love for him to hit well enough to earn that, but not crazy about that right away.

We could have Rickey Henderson and Nellie Fox hitting 1-2, but if Dunn and PK can't hit, it won't make much of a difference.

Zakath
06-25-2012, 10:16 PM
Fugly's about the only way to describe this one.

They Twinned out a bunch of hits, left a crapload of guys on... and we couldn't do anything about it.

In the last nine games, we've scored more than 3 runs twice.

9-13 in June, which by the schedule should have been a winning month. July is not going to be easy, starting with Texas and Toronto at home and only 3 games at home after the All-Star break.

BigHurt3515
06-25-2012, 10:17 PM
Really bad game by the White Sox in all facets. Based on how the game went, they should have lost 11-1. The only reason they remained in the game is because Minnesota sucks. A good team blows the Sox off the field tonight.

The whole lineup is slumping right now. They were all hot together about three or four weeks ago. Now, they are all cold together. The only blessing is they still have a slim lead in the division, and there's no reason to quit while you're ahead.

I think Rios and maybe Ramirez/Beckham are the only 2 not slumping really bad like everyone else.

mahagga73
06-25-2012, 10:18 PM
it's as close to guaranteed as anything in the world they will lose to a leftie. Grienke (a rightie) had a 7 ERA on the road and they can't score,Liriano is 1-7 ,and they make him look like he's good.This is starting to become unwatchable.

CoopaLoop
06-25-2012, 10:19 PM
We could have Rickey Henderson and Nellie Fox hitting 1-2, but if Dunn and PK can't hit, it won't make much of a difference.

True.

As for the Donkey.... Adam Dunn is 2 for his last 28 with 18 strikeouts.

RockJock07
06-25-2012, 10:20 PM
Liriano sucks, no excuse to get shut down by him. A loss is a loss but at least get to a guy with an ERA north of 5.

SoxSpeed22
06-25-2012, 10:20 PM
Everything went right for them, nothing went right for us, and we played badly. Get em tomorrow.

DrCrawdad
06-25-2012, 10:21 PM
Youkilis, you can't hit, you're slow, your defense is marginal. You'll feel right at home with the White Sox!

mahagga73
06-25-2012, 10:22 PM
True.

As for the Donkey.... Adam Dunn is 2 for his last 28 with 18 strikeouts.
Is it just me or does he have a habit of watching the first pitch sail right down the middle and then swinging at strike 3 2 foot outside? Why these guys don't swing at the first pitch is a mystery, it's just stupid.

LongLiveFisk
06-25-2012, 10:25 PM
9-13 in June, which by the schedule should have been a winning month. July is not going to be easy, starting with Texas and Toronto at home and only 3 games at home after the All-Star break.

In typical Sox fashion, they will probably play better against those teams. Looking lackluster against lackluster teams is nothing new here.

Tragg
06-25-2012, 10:28 PM
I have to question moving Beckham down in the order. He's hit well for the last month +, he's comfortable in the 2 hole, and struggled like heck when hitting down in the order.
Youkalis hasn't proven he can hit, and he could easily just be put 7th or 8th to take pressure off him and let him go.

This reminds me of a Guillen move.

CoopaLoop
06-25-2012, 10:29 PM
I have to question moving Beckham down in the order. He's hit well for the last month +, he's comfortable in the 2 hole, and struggled like heck when hitting down in the order.
Youkalis hasn't proven he can hit, and he could easily just be put 7th or 8th to take pressure off him and let him go.

This reminds me of a Guillen move.

Agreed, I would have plugged him in at 6 and see what happens.

DumpJerry
06-25-2012, 10:32 PM
Peavy's first loss this season that was not a one-run game.

Adele_H
06-25-2012, 10:40 PM
Just another typical loss to these bastards

Yes.

However, it would be disservice to guys like Quintana to let Peavy & Dunn, De Aza, AJ and co. off the hook here and just chalk it off to some Twins Voodoo. Afterall, Sox won 6 of their last 7 in this ballpark. Truth is, Sox looked flat & entitled in every facet of the game. It's as if they looked at the Twins record, Liriano's crappy ERA and imagined that they would all get to "eat" tonight-- basically meaning an easy win and some good old-fashioned stat-padding. Yum-yum.

This is why the whole "6 innings, 3 runs = Quality-Start Yay" is misleading. It's all about each game's CONTEXT & complexion. Sometimes, it IS a quality start. Other times like tonight, it is NOT. This is where old-school fans like TDog have a point. Peavy quickly put the team in a 3-0 hole --- and he was lucky it was only 3 runs since Span missed 3-run HR by about a foot and then Beckham diving stop saved Jake's behind. That allowed a taleted headcase like Liriano to be much more relaxed, have a lot of room for error -- basically forced Sox offense to work uphill from the get-go.

Twins also made the defensive plays while Sox didn't. And while Rios can be forgiven because he made nice catch later in the game -- not to mention single-handed won the game on Sunday by stealing a 2-run HR from the Brew-crew........Konerko's terrible range & slowing reflexes are starting to kill the team when he is slumping offensively. That 2-run 2nd innning was the difference in the game -- and it started out by Konerko misplayed Plouffle routine blooper into a basehit. Peavy had to go to the stretch, the rest is history...

Another thing about Peavy, as good as he can look at times, as smart, experienced, Alabama Dirtbag Tough as he prides himself on being..... sometimes he gets these inexplicable lapses in concentration & common sense that are more characteristic of a lesser talented rookie pitcher.

I mean, Jaime Carroll is basically Brent Lillibridge, 20 Year Later: Untold and Utterly Uninteresting Story. A creepy look-alike. With the game still close, 2 outs, runner at 3rd, you know he is looking first-pitch fastball to get a cheap RBI. 1st, 2nd bases are open; even a half-way decent off-speed pitch will probably get him out since he's never been able to hit them. Jake just worked so hard to strike out Butera the batter before. Had Peavy gotten him Carroll out in the situation, both runs in the inning woud have been unearned, so there was every motivation for Peavy to bear down just a little more and put that fool Carroll away with something off-speed. Except, for some bizarre reason first thing Peavy does is throw a straight-as-arrow get me over 89 mph fastball right down the middle; even Carroll is good enough to put that BP pitch in play. Base-hit up the middle. Run scores. Both runs in the inning are earned. Span gets to come to the plate.... Sigh. Just stupid baseball.

Dunn against Liriano was just cruel. Had no chance. Him, AJ, Viciedo and De Aza need to snap out of their recent slump.

When Dunn starts getting "cheap" HR to LF-LCF like he used to in Cincinnati all those years, Sox offense will be unstoppable.

Parrothead
06-25-2012, 10:47 PM
We could have Rickey Henderson and Nellie Fox hitting 1-2, but if Dunn and PK can't hit, it won't make much of a difference.

I don't think Henderson or Fox would help right now...too old and dead.

chisoxfanatic
06-25-2012, 10:50 PM
It's not what you hit, but when you hit it, and the Twins got some very opportune hits (and a couple gifts as well). Midway through the game, I knew we'd lose.

Adele_H
06-25-2012, 11:30 PM
it's as close to guaranteed as anything in the world they will lose to a leftie. Grienke (a rightie) had a 7 ERA on the road and they can't score,Liriano is 1-7 ,and they make him look like he's good. This is starting to become unwatchable.

I'd be careful not to over-rely or draw too many conclusions from home/away splits. Sox are slumping collectively, no doubt, but it's also just BASEBALL that happens: ball bounces wrong way, umps miss calls, nothing can go right. It's about match-ups. And on any given day, anything can happen. Insert-your-truism.

So when Liriano has his slider working.... AND he is spotted an early 3-0 lead, with his team threatening for more in every inning, it seemed like...... He's just going to be tough. Especially the way Dunn, AJ, Viciedo, Konerko and De Aza been looking lately.

Same with Grienke. The trick is not get HR-greedy or pull-happy; to spoil his pitcher's pitches with 2 strikes, to get the lead-off runner on base in the inning any way you can -- bloop, bleeder, jersey-clipping HBP, doesn't matter --- then get Grienke to pitch out of the stretch, distracted by the baserunner, his anxiety starts kicking in, he temporarily loses the release point, perhaps he even starts tipping his change-up -----> then BOOM his formerly nasty off-speed stuff start hanging over the heart of the plate, and he gets smoked. Rinse and repeat.

But if you play right into the hands of Grienke, King Felix, even Liriano... doesn't matter their ERA or home/away splits, doesn't matter if your offense has been averaging 10 runs a pop coming into the game, you're in trouble.

Adele_H
06-25-2012, 11:41 PM
Is it just me or does he have a habit of watching the first pitch sail right down the middle and then swinging at strike 3 2 foot outside? .

You say that now but you'll sing a different tune when Dunn is the unanimous winner of the 2012 Jeremy Giambi Award for Most Pitches Seen-per-Atbat.

Seriously, it's one of my pet peeves. Running up the count and seeing pitches for the sake of seeing pitches -- when a lot of times the BEST, most juicy HR-able pitch is the first one..... It makes sense some games when the other team has a terrible bullpen and their starter is known to be very wild but very hard to square up for an extra-base hit, a turbo-sinker baller, etc. Other times, the strategy is downright counter-productive.

It's like when Sox face some AAAA bum and they threaten to blow the game wide open in early innings, but don't quite do it, lots of line-outs, balls curling foul with HR distnce, etc......Sox annoucers are gleeful because, hey, that crappy starter is at, say, 70 pitches after 3 innings, pretty soon he'll be out of he game, they say. And I'm like but WHY? He is a bum, hangs everything in sight -- you WANT him to stay in the game as long as possible, you do NOT want Sox to keep taking pitches for the sake of taking pitches in order to run the starter out early because the bullpen guy that ends up relieving him will probably have far better stuff, might just shut Sox down and win the game. If anything in that situation, the broadcasters should be rooting for that starter to conserve pitches and for Sox hitters to attack his slop early and often! LOL

Anyway, I guess Dunn is just so used to drawing walks, it's his "thing" now part of his hitting identity, so when he is slumping badly, he draws consolation from drawing a walk. And don't get me wrong, OBP is very important, but against Liriano the way he threw tonight, if you're a Lefty like Dunn and you go down 0-2/1-2...you gawn.

JB98
06-25-2012, 11:53 PM
I have to question moving Beckham down in the order. He's hit well for the last month +, he's comfortable in the 2 hole, and struggled like heck when hitting down in the order.
Youkalis hasn't proven he can hit, and he could easily just be put 7th or 8th to take pressure off him and let him go.

This reminds me of a Guillen move.

I also would have preferred to see the top six in the order left untouched. Put Youkilis seventh, and then drop Viciedo and Ramirez down one spot.

That said, I think it's a little harsh to call it a Guillen move. Youkilis has a history as a good OBP guy, and I'm sure Ventura looked at that as a reason to put him the No. 2 spot. I don't agree with that decision, but I can at least see the logic behind the move. Many of Ozzie's choices were seemingly void of reason.

hawkjt
06-26-2012, 12:16 AM
Sox look hapless against a lefty again. DeAza,Dunn and AJ have no chance against any lefty...so that means a third of your team is done befoe the game starts.

I think it would have been a good nite to give Adam the nite off...he never gets a nite off. He is so bad right now,he could use a break.

I think the first game vs the Jays put us in a hitting funk that we have been in for 19 straight games...brutal. 7-12 in that stretch with at least 10 very bad hitting games...9 of them losses.

The collective slumps are not new,this team has done it the past few seasons...it is so maddening,it is hard to take.

Alexei,Alex and Gordo are the only ones that have any chance.
PK is swinging like he has a broken wrist. This might ruin his season.

samurai_sox
06-26-2012, 12:37 AM
Hate reality check games like this, the offense needs to start ****ing showing up.

edit: oops! thought I was in the postgame thread.

DonnieDarko
06-26-2012, 12:38 AM
****ing Twins, Twinning it up every damned time.

Zakath
06-26-2012, 12:44 AM
Sox look hapless against a lefty again. DeAza,Dunn and AJ have no chance against any lefty...so that means a third of your team is done befoe the game starts.


AJ's average vs. LHP? .294, 8 points higher than he hits vs. RHP.

Dunn's average drops like a rock vs. lefties, while De Aza has brought his average up vs. LHP from the low 100's to .282, only 15 points below what he hits off RHP.

The team as a whole does not hit lefties well, even the right-handed hitters who should hit them well. Rios's average is 70 points lower vs. LH than it is vs. RH. Paulie drops 65 points. Beckham drops 40. The only starter whose average is significantly higher vs. lefties is Alexei, who goes up 32 points vs. southpaws.

Sometimes numbers lie, and sometimes they don't.

amsteel
06-26-2012, 02:34 AM
Based on the schedule and the way they've been playing, the Sox will be lucky to make it out of July 5 games under 0.500.

russ99
06-26-2012, 03:18 AM
You say that now but you'll sing a different tune when Dunn is the unanimous winner of the 2012 Jeremy Giambi Award for Most Pitches Seen-per-Atbat.

Seriously, it's one of my pet peeves. Running up the count and seeing pitches for the sake of seeing pitches -- when a lot of times the BEST, most juicy HR-able pitch is the first one..... It makes sense some games when the other team has a terrible bullpen and their starter is known to be very wild but very hard to square up for an extra-base hit, a turbo-sinker baller, etc. Other times, the strategy is downright counter-productive.

It's like when Sox face some AAAA bum and they threaten to blow the game wide open in early innings, but don't quite do it, lots of line-outs, balls curling foul with HR distnce, etc......Sox annoucers are gleeful because, hey, that crappy starter is at, say, 70 pitches after 3 innings, pretty soon he'll be out of he game, they say. And I'm like but WHY? He is a bum, hangs everything in sight -- you WANT him to stay in the game as long as possible, you do NOT want Sox to keep taking pitches for the sake of taking pitches in order to run the starter out early because the bullpen guy that ends up relieving him will probably have far better stuff, might just shut Sox down and win the game. If anything in that situations that, the broadcasters should be rooting for that starter to conserve pitches and for Sox hitters to attack his slop early and often! LOL

Anyway, I guess Dunn is just so used to drawing walks, it's his "thing" now part of his hitting identity, so when he is slumping badly, he draws consolation from drawing a walk. And don't get me wrong, OBP is very important, but against Liriano the way he threw tonight, if you're a Lefty like Dunn and you go down 0-2/1-2...you gawn.

It's been Dunn's strategy at the plate his entire career, and he's not going to change it now. The only difference here is he's not hitting lately.

Also, taking the first pitch is smart baseball, unless you take one that's grooved. I'd much prefer our hitters to take early, run up the pitch count, get more batter friendly counts then hack at the first pitch every time and give the pitcher the early advantage. Even if he's a crappy pitcher, you don't want to give him the upper hand and have your guys battling back from 0-2 or 1-2 every at bat.

Also, Guillen would have left Beckham in the two spot where he's been hitting well lately. Youkilis has had a poor season at the plate and Robin shouldn't put him in the two spot just because of his career OBP.

LITTLE NELL
06-26-2012, 05:42 AM
I don't think Henderson or Fox would help right now...too old and dead.

Right now, the whole lineup looks dead.

Bucky F. Dent
06-26-2012, 07:04 AM
In the last nine games, we've scored more than 3 runs twice.


You're not going to win much with that kind of production. Hopefully Youk finds a spark in new surroundings.....but I agree that starting him in the two hole doesn't make much sense.

hawkjt
06-26-2012, 07:38 AM
AJ's average vs. LHP? .294, 8 points higher than he hits vs. RHP.

Dunn's average drops like a rock vs. lefties, while De Aza has brought his average up vs. LHP from the low 100's to .282, only 15 points below what he hits off RHP.

The team as a whole does not hit lefties well, even the right-handed hitters who should hit them well. Rios's average is 70 points lower vs. LH than it is vs. RH. Paulie drops 65 points. Beckham drops 40. The only starter whose average is significantly higher vs. lefties is Alexei, who goes up 32 points vs. southpaws.

Sometimes numbers lie, and sometimes they don't.

My grasp on the facts is tenuous at best:o:
It just seems to me that our lefties cannot hit vs lefty pitching,but that is just recently,where nobody seems to be hitting anyone,outside of Alexei,Alex and Gordo.
I still go back to that Jays series,where their starting pitchers cooled our bats off,and they have been cold ever since.
This game, I did not feel good about, because Liriano has been so good lately,despite his 1-7 record overall, and he is a lefty,and a lefty that has our number anyway. His ERA over the last 6 starts is now less than 2.50, so all that really matters is how a guy is going when he takes the mound vs the Sox that nite,not how his numbers were in April.

Now, on paper,the Sox should be better at the plate the next two games,but,with bats this cold...who knows?

SCCWS
06-26-2012, 07:44 AM
Also, Guillen would have left Beckham in the two spot where he's been hitting well lately. Youkilis has had a poor season at the plate and Robin shouldn't put him in the two spot just because of his career OBP.


I think that in the end Robin made the right move for the team. But I wouldn't have done it now either. I think Beckham's problems may be more mental than physical. But I got to think Robin didn't think it would affect him. Youk was also hitting well lately when he got the chance.
But Robin's reasoning may already show in the numbers. Last night Youk 4 abs. 23 pitches. Robin 3 abs--6 pitches.

HaroMaster87
06-26-2012, 07:51 AM
it's as close to guaranteed as anything in the world they will lose to a leftie. Grienke (a rightie) had a 7 ERA on the road and they can't score,Liriano is 1-7 ,and they make him look like he's good.This is starting to become unwatchable.

Wins stat for a pitcher means almost nothing...Liriano, in his last 5 starts, has given up a total of 9 runs. Sounds like a hot streak to me...

Hitmen77
06-26-2012, 07:59 AM
Youk, welcome to Chicago. Time to become familiar with the White Sox's Minnesota salute: :tiphat:

The Sox lost a series to the worst team in MLB (Cubs). Let's see if we can manage to come back and win the series vs. the worst team (going into this series) in the AL.

Lucky for us the Sox are clinging to first and have time to pull out of this tailspin. But this is looking to me like the norm for this year's team with the exception of that one hot streak.

Liriano sucks, no excuse to get shut down by him. A loss is a loss but at least get to a guy with an ERA north of 5.

At least we didn't get no-hit by him. We've improved since last year!

Frater Perdurabo
06-26-2012, 08:59 AM
But Robin's reasoning may already show in the numbers. Last night Youk 4 abs. 23 pitches. Robin 3 abs--6 pitches.

Youkilis taking all those pitches gives DeAza (and Alexei and Beckham, when the lineup turns over) many opportunities to steal bases. That will distract pitchers whilst pitching from the stretch, causing them to make more mistakes and/or groove fastballs. Also, Youkilis' ability to work walks will cause opposing teams not to shift so greatly when Dunn is batting, hopefully resulting in more RBIs. PK also will get more RBI chances; the sore wrist has sapped his power, but he's still been able to snap singles to right.

Finally, working pitchers will wear put starters and give the Sox opportunities to tee off on relievers. The Sox often have problems with lefties and junk throwers. These guys often are starters, but you don't find many in bullpens. Rather, relievers usually throw straight heat and one secondary pitch; the Sox have shown over the years that they are a good fastball hitting team. The sooner the Sox tire out the starter, the more they will face lesser relievers.

If Youkilis can just hit .250, take pitches and work walks, this lineup will be much more productive.

doublem23
06-26-2012, 09:02 AM
Also, Guillen would have left Beckham in the two spot where he's been hitting well lately. Youkilis has had a poor season at the plate and Robin shouldn't put him in the two spot just because of his career OBP.

I think it's pretty obvious that if Guillen was still here, he'd be giving Hudson the majority of PT at 3B since Orlando's a bit older and more veteran than Youkilis, thus, clearly the superior player.

TheOldRoman
06-26-2012, 09:19 AM
Supposedly Konerko's hand is really bad again. There is plenty of time left in the season, and the Tigers and Indians are treading water. Send him to the DL. He has been terrible the last month. .224, 1 double, two homers, 4 GIDP (two of which were game-ending check swings). Give him time off to get right. I think the Sox could get by with Dunn/Tank at first and JorDanks in LF or Youkilis at first and Hudson staying in the lineup. As undesirable as both of those situations might be, Konerko is really hurting the team right now.

TomBradley72
06-26-2012, 09:20 AM
I'm OK w/Robin putting Youk right in the mix right away in the 2 slot- I think he's rolling the dice that he's a veteran with something to prove.

Our biggest issue right now is that Dunn and PK have fallen off a cliff for the past 3-4 weeks while TCM and Beckham got back on track.

Dunn sliding quickly to the .200 mark and PK becoming (at best) a slow footed singles hitter.

russ99
06-26-2012, 11:38 AM
I think it's pretty obvious that if Guillen was still here, he'd be giving Hudson the majority of PT at 3B since Orlando's a bit older and more veteran than Youkilis, thus, clearly the superior player.

It's obvious that Youkilis even when having an average year is a much better player. But I do agree that Hudson is Ozzie's kind of player.

More like Ozzie would be platooning him in at 2nd and 3rd to get him in the lineup more than Robin would.

hawkjt
06-26-2012, 12:30 PM
Supposedly Konerko's hand is really bad again. There is plenty of time left in the season, and the Tigers and Indians are treading water. Send him to the DL. He has been terrible the last month. .224, 1 double, two homers, 4 GIDP (two of which were game-ending check swings). Give him time off to get right. I think the Sox could get by with Dunn/Tank at first and JorDanks in LF or Youkilis at first and Hudson staying in the lineup. As undesirable as both of those situations might be, Konerko is really hurting the team right now.

I agree. It is painful just to watch his weird looking swings now.
Bring up Dan Johnson or whoever is hitting decent down on the farm and let PK heal.