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View Full Version : *Official* 6/23 Sox Win 8-6 "The Return of El Cubano" Postgamer


guillensdisciple
06-23-2012, 10:59 PM
Great game to be at. Happy out bats woke up with axelrod pitching.

SoxSpeed22
06-23-2012, 11:02 PM
I was out for most of the night, but nice job Reed.

vinny
06-23-2012, 11:04 PM
Tank, Rios, and Beckham all with timely hitting tonight. And the bullpen was only partly ****ty.

:soxwin:

KenBerryGrab
06-23-2012, 11:13 PM
Beckham's at-bat against the sidewinder was heartening.

Rios taking the ball up the middle is a pretty sight.

ChiSoxGal85
06-23-2012, 11:23 PM
Loved how Beckham took that inside pitch down the line for the insurance run. An interesting game, one that seesawed, but the Sox came out on top. Axelrod did all right. I'm a little concerned about Nate Jones' last couple of outings; hopefully just a hiccup.

Good win. Let's take the series tomorrow.

slavko
06-23-2012, 11:32 PM
Loved how Beckham took that inside pitch down the line for the insurance run. An interesting game, one that seesawed, but the Sox came out on top. Axelrod did all right. I'm a little concerned about Nate Jones' last couple of outings; hopefully just a hiccup.

Good win. Let's take the series tomorrow.

With you 100%. I thought Jones was something he isn't. Axelrod's mediocre, but he deserved better. Mediocre isn't that bad Right About Now.

WisSoxFan
06-23-2012, 11:32 PM
Good win for those of us who live in Wisconsin. Now let's take a series! With a win tomorrow and Peavy vs. the Twins on Monday...one can hope.

BigHurt3515
06-23-2012, 11:54 PM
I see Hudson came up big with a game tying double

BigHurt3515
06-23-2012, 11:57 PM
Beckham's at-bat against the sidewinder was heartening.

Rios taking the ball up the middle is a pretty sight.

Beckham's average is slowly creeping up to a respectable average with his gold glove type defense
.246

BigHurt3515
06-23-2012, 11:58 PM
Tank, Rios, and Beckham all with timely hitting tonight. And the bullpen was only partly ****ty.

:soxwin:

They only let up 1 ER?? I didn't see the game but it doesn't look too bad by the box score

palehozenychicty
06-24-2012, 12:24 AM
I really like when Rios has a fluid swing. He's such a classic tease.

GlassSox
06-24-2012, 01:08 AM
Really good night at the ball park and the fire works to some great music were fun. I had a good laugh that they misspelled Joe Cocker's name, they spelled it Crocker.

A few loud Brewer's fans were near us but it was pretty quiet after the Sox got the last two runs.

Let's get series win tomorrow.

guillensdisciple
06-24-2012, 01:13 AM
Really good night at the ball park and the fire works to some great music were fun. I had a good laugh that they misspelled Joe Cocker's name, they spelled it Crocker.

A few loud Brewer's fans were near us but it was pretty quiet after the Sox got the last two runs.

Let's get series win tomorrow.

I actually had annoying SOX fans in my section. Kind of embarrassing. Kept on heckling Gomez and then had their girl friends join in with a long "GOOOOOMMEEEEZZZZ" by the guys and "********er" by the girls.

Felt bad for the kids sitting next to me

Funny enough though, Gomez heard them and bent over and showed his butt to all of us in center. I thought it was funny and well deserved.

GlassSox
06-24-2012, 01:17 AM
I actually had annoying SOX fans in my section. Kind of embarrassing. Kept on heckling Gomez and then had their girl friends join in with a long "GOOOOOMMEEEEZZZZ" by the guys and "********er" by the girls.

Felt bad for the kids sitting next to me

Funny enough though, Gomez heard them and bent over and showed his butt to all of us in center. I thought it was funny and well deserved.

The kids should definitely not have to be exposed to that. The Brewers fans were just loud and the MVP chant for Braun was annoying but they were well behaved.

JB98
06-24-2012, 02:04 AM
The kids should definitely not have to be exposed to that. The Brewers fans were just loud and the MVP chant for Braun was annoying but they were well behaved.

I chanted "M-V-P!" for Braun when he popped up to right field with the bases loaded to end the sixth. We had a couple obnoxious Milwaukee fans in our section. They were taunting, so I gave it back to them. Amusingly, they left after the bottom of the eighth inning. Wonder why.

In any case, Axelrod isn't a long-term solution as a starting pitcher, but hopefully he can keep the Sox in games in the short run until we get Danks or Humber back. The Sox were able to outhit the opposition tonight. Nice games by Viciedo, Rios and Beckham. Lillibridge couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat right now, but that was a terrific catch to rob Gomez tonight.

hawkjt
06-24-2012, 02:22 AM
Lots of twists and turns in this one.

Good:
Gordo is swinging it ok,finally.
Dayan was huge,and broke out in a big way...we need him back to hot!
Hudson's hit was very important,and timely.
As was Alex.
Our clutchness was back!
Addison was solid.

Bad:

If I am Robin,and put in Ohman,and they pinch hit a righty,I just have him walk him,and only pitch to leftys....he is so bad.
Jones in a bit of a slump.they hammered him.
Crain still not very solid either.

Hey, it was a very needed win,and we got it...now,get a series tomorrow,lets go Q!

Adele_H
06-24-2012, 02:50 AM
SoxStrong1111numeroUno1111111One :bandance: This is why Viciedo is worth the wait. He barely hit that ball, got fooled by its slow-speed, was off-balance --- and STILL hit it out to opposite field. Both him and Dunn should realize that even with a more compact, shorter swing, they can still hit the ball out to any part of the ballpark, really no need to fall out of the shoes sometimes swinging for the moon. Afterall, a HR counts the same whether it's 330 feet long or 530 feet monster blast.

Likewise, Rios and Reed looking sharp, just professional looking no fuss no mas.

Bright side, Sox won a Dylan Axelrod start. Thank the Lord for Randy Wolf who is still winless against the Palehose in his career. Takes part of the sting out of losing on Friday the (unlucky) way they did...

While he did mystify them 1st time through the order, 2nd and 3rd time around you can tell Brewers were all over Axelrod -- with no less than 3 warning-track shots, including Lillibridge high-way robbery of Carlos Gomez IIRC.......Mercy!

Speaking of which, I wish Robin wouldn't listen to Coop so much and be reactionary about the whole pitch count. Axelrod is a textbook AAAA talent. He was pitching at the launching pad like the Cell, in a DH league. He gave Sox 5 quality innings, around 90 pitches. You could tell in the 4th and 5th Brewers started to figure him out a little, hanger city. The score was 4-3, which is not secure at the Cell during summer to say the least. I mean...... WHY does Coop who is in charge of pitching pretty much have to always wait until Sox pitching BLOWS the game before being forced to make a move? Why not have foresight for once? Nate Jones hadn't pitched since Monday, basically on starter's rest, could have easily handled the 6th and 7th inning, bridging to Thornton/Crane in 8th and Reed in 9th.......

.
Seriously, why always get greedy like Sox used to under Guillen regime with Humber, Danks and Co.? 5 innings, 3 runs, around 90 pitches for a spot-starter like Axelrod is more than sufficient. Why push the luck? I hope it's not in order to try to "teach him how to be a real mang" which was the excuse under the previous regime. The dude is like 27 years old not a kid. Moreover, I always hear about how 100 pitch mark is so arbitrary, artificial --- well if that's the case, it should work BOTH ways: why trot a tiring, under-talented pitcher out there extra few batters longer in that situation? Just to cover a manager's behind, to be able to say that hey the starter is not yet at the (supposedly meaningless) 100 mark --- and in the process put too much pressyre on Ohman/Jones when Axelrod inevitably gets in trouble? Creating a lose-lose situation instead of locking in the gains and turning the game to the pen who can come in with a lead and do their job with a clean slate, bases empty, infield playing back, etc......

Whatever, win's a win's a win. Quintana tomorrow. Not facing Gallardo I heard.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
06-24-2012, 03:44 AM
I chanted "M-V-P!" for Braun when he popped up to right field with the bases loaded to end the sixth. We had a couple obnoxious Milwaukee fans in our section. They were taunting, so I gave it back to them. Amusingly, they left after the bottom of the eighth inning. Wonder why.

In any case, Axelrod isn't a long-term solution as a starting pitcher, but hopefully he can keep the Sox in games in the short run until we get Danks or Humber back. The Sox were able to outhit the opposition tonight. Nice games by Viciedo, Rios and Beckham. Lillibridge couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat right now, but that was a terrific catch to rob Gomez tonight.


Same here. What section were you guys in? I was in 508, and we had a few Brewers fans doing the MVP chant, that also took off after the eighth.

I was lucky enough to sit next to a dad and his son. His son had to be about 5 years old, and was asking innocent questions about the game, and the dad was patiently answering the questions. At one point, the son turned to me and asked "Who are you cheering for - Sox or Brewers?" I turned to him and pointed to my shirt and said "Sox all the way!"

We kept a dialogue going throughout the game after that, and the son would ask me questions about the game, stuff like "Why did the Sox walk that man? Was that fair or foul?" and the dad would ask for updates if they ended up missing an inning because of bathroom/concessions/etc. The kid was very well-behaved, sat there and watched the game without complaining.

At one point, Rios was up and the dad said "I don't like Rios, he's not clutch." I told him "I don't know, he's been pretty good this year." One pitch later, he gives the Sox the 7-6 lead with a base hit to drive in Beckham. I turned to him and gave him my best Farmer-esque "You were saying?" He just laughed and said "Well, he just proved me wrong." After the fireworks, I shook both their hands and told them how much fun I had sitting with them and talking to them, and wished them well.

It was a true joy to sit next to them, and it made me think about how I would love to eventually be that dad, explaining the game to his son. It was a great last-minute decision to attend this game, and I definitely will try to do it more often now. Sometimes, the best memories at the ballpark aren't necessarily the ones made on the field.

cards press box
06-24-2012, 06:36 AM
Axelrod isn't a long-term solution as a starting pitcher, but hopefully he can keep the Sox in games in the short run until we get Danks or Humber back.

Axelrod is, at best, an innings eater and probably better suited for long relief. I wonder if he starts next week against New York or if the Sox call someone like Simon Castro up to make that start. I also wonder if Kevin Youkilis is a White Sox by next week.

In any event, the Sox needed a shot in the arm tonight and I'm glad to say:

:winner

I am looking forward to Jose Quintana's start today. I would like to see the Sox take the series and have some momentum going into this upcoming road trip!

vinny
06-24-2012, 06:59 AM
They only let up 1 ER?? I didn't see the game but it doesn't look too bad by the box score

Yeah, the stats don't tell the story. Ohman came on with two on and one out in the 6th, pitched to one batter and gave up a hit, allowing one of Axelrod's runners to score. Jones gave up a single, a double, and a walk and allowed Axelrod's other runner to score and allowed Ohman's runner to score. He then gave up a double in the 7th and had to be bailed out by Crain. Thornton had runners at first and second in the 8th and Reed had to come in early and bail Thornton out, but gave up a walk to load the bases before getting out of the inning. Reed was much better in the 9th, but collectively the pen gave a heart-attack inducing performance.

Bucky F. Dent
06-24-2012, 08:46 AM
Is there anyone else in the world that we can have in the bullpen besides Wil Ohman?
That dude stinks out loud!
Hell, sign Jamie Moyer!

balke
06-24-2012, 09:24 AM
SoxStrong1111numeroUno1111111One :bandance: I wish Robin wouldn't listen to Coop so much and be reactionary about the whole pitch count.
Seriously, why always get greedy like Sox used to under Guillen regime with Humber, Danks and Co.? 5 innings, 3 runs, around 90 pitches for a spot-starter like Axelrod is more than sufficient. Why push the luck?


He's not a spot starter at this point. He's to be relied on. Even if that's how you want to classify him - the bullpen is not deep or strong enough to vouch for 4 innings for a guy each time through the rotation. Sox need Axelrod to be a guy who can soak up at least 6.

balke
06-24-2012, 09:31 AM
Axelrod is, at best, an innings eater and probably better suited for long relief. I wonder if he starts next week against New York or if the Sox call someone like Simon Castro up to make that start. I also wonder if Kevin Youkilis is a White Sox by next week.




I was anti-Youk but Hudson is so bad... might be worth spending on Youk so someone can make the standard plays at 3B. I'd be more comfortable with Viciedo there at this point - he wasn't bad with balls hit at him like Hudson is. He (Viciedo) just doesn't have range or exciting reaction time.

Buying Youk means making a financial commitment to an aged veteran yet again. A lot of these vets and salaries will peel off in coming years though.

There are some players having special years right now - might have to "win now" one last time. Youk might give you a real good looking team. Danks comes back, Axelrod develops into a quality long relief guy, Humber comes back to give some decent starts. All of a sudden the Sox are in the playoffs with Peavy Sale and Danks.

Brian26
06-24-2012, 09:43 AM
I see Hudson came up big with a game tying double

Don't read the box score and think that tells you the whole story. The centerfielder was playing extremely shallow for Hudson. The ball should have been a routine flyout to CF.

Brian26
06-24-2012, 09:44 AM
Is there anyone else in the world that we can have in the bullpen besides Wil Ohman?

I just don't understand why Robin brought him in to face a righthanded batter.

SCCWS
06-24-2012, 09:54 AM
Beckham's average is slowly creeping up to a respectable average with his gold glove type defense
.246


He has done a good job getting his average up. Kudos to Robin for sticking with him and leaving him in the 2 hole.
Now gold glove means best at his position. He is a good 2nd baseman. But he ranks middle of the pack in AL in errors and even lower in range factor. Pedroia will walk away with the gold glove. He is constantly in the ESPN defensive highlight reels and rarely makes an error.

balke
06-24-2012, 09:57 AM
Is there anyone else in the world that we can have in the bullpen besides Wil Ohman?
That dude stinks out loud!
Hell, sign Jamie Moyer!


Agreed on Ohman. I think the real problem is Stewart though. If the Sox could find a good long relief guy who can actually get people out - might be able to start using Ohman against lefties only again.

hawkjt
06-24-2012, 10:30 AM
Maybe it is because we watch every game and are too close to the situation,but I cringe when Dick Stockton goes on and on about our bullpen. Right now:
Stewart- bad
Ohman- worse
Thornton-can't trust him
Jones- leaking oil lately
Crain- shaky
Santiago- ok
Reed- good.

I do hesitate to suggest moving Thornton for Youk, and would way prefer it be Ohman,but bullpen depth is not a great strength...Ohman-yes,away with him,but Thornton? We are starting to really lean on the bullpen,so I fear their arms are starting to fall off and by August could be dead.

It all starts with our rotation,and how many innings the pen has to cover on days that Peavy,Sale and Quintana do not pitch.
Now, I put Quintana in there based just on his last couple of outings,so might not yet be a good test. I cannot let go of that outing last Sunday vs the Dodgers,77 pitches in 8, that is an opportunity to save our bullpen,and the rookie manager blew it. Cannot have that,with our fragile bullpen.
Lets hope Q gives the Sox a great outing today,and validates Robins move a bit,as he has to be full of confidence from last Sunday. The Sox have 8 games in the next 8 days so must protect the pen.

Foulke You
06-24-2012, 10:30 AM
I just don't understand why Robin brought him in to face a righthanded batter.

Robin brought Ohman in to face the left handed catcher (Kattaras?) but Roenicke pinch hit his right handed catcher Maldonado and it came up aces. In Ohman's defense it was a ducksnort but he always struggles to get right handers out.

PaleHoser
06-24-2012, 10:39 AM
I don't know what was sweeter: Watching Lillibridge make that outstanding catch or watching Carlos Gomez make the right turn back to the dugout after he was posing at the plate after hitting that shot. Gomez is such a tool.

Went the game with my oldest who goes to college in Wisconsin and follows the Brewers when he's up north because MLB Gameday is blacked out for the White Sox. He says with the exception of Axford the entire Brewers bullpen is hot garbage and that most WSI subscribers would be on suicide watch if they pitched for the Sox. :roflmao:

kufram
06-24-2012, 10:39 AM
I'm not a fan of Youkilis but does have a track record and he just might be the best guy for us right now. Also, he might have something prove.

October26
06-24-2012, 10:52 AM
I'm not a fan of Youkilis but does have a track record and he just might be the best guy for us right now. Also, he might have something prove.

There is lots of talk right now about Youkilis being traded to the Sox. I feel the same way you do - if he can help the White Sox win games then that is good enough for me.

As for last night's game, I was so happy to see the Sox bats come alive. :bandance:Finally! Great clutch hitting by Beckham, Hudson, Ramirez, Rios, & Viciedo. Viciedo had an error early in the game but then made up for it by going 3-4 including an opposite field homer. :D: And that catch by Lillibridge was outstanding. Glad the Sox got the win on your birthday, kufram, and really hope they can get the series win today. Let's Go White Sox!

PS - love the tread title!

JB98
06-24-2012, 02:03 PM
Same here. What section were you guys in? I was in 508, and we had a few Brewers fans doing the MVP chant, that also took off after the eighth.

533. Most of the Brewer fans around us were OK, but there were two people in the row behind us who were really being a pain in the ass. Hysterically, they thought Axelrod hit Weeks intentionally in the sixth. :rolleyes:

Those are the kind of people who deserve to be taunted. I don't mind opposing fans showing up and cheering for their team. Hell, that's what we did in St. Louis last week. But there's a line that shouldn't be crossed. Most people don't cross it, but these two fans did. So, I let them have it.

Adele_H
06-24-2012, 03:18 PM
He's not a spot starter at this point. He's to be relied on. Even if that's how you want to classify him - the bullpen is not deep or strong enough to vouch for 4 innings for a guy each time through the rotation. Sox need Axelrod to be a guy who can soak up at least 6.

Strongly disagree, no way. Dylan Axelrod is NOT talented or experience enough to be automatically given that kind of benefit of the doubt in a tight pennant race . Not in a DH league, not in a launching pad like the Cell during summertime.

"Gimme 6-7" is not gonna work. This isn't fantasy leagues. This isn't a Mang-teaching School for Real Mangs, either. Just because the Guillen regime was often so stubborn and inflexible, trying to cover their behinds, managing for extra-innings in the 6th inning........ doesn't mean Robin should be.

It's all about individual approach. All about watching QUALITY of pitches & opponent swings, especially 2nd, 3rd time through the order. Some guys like Verlander when they're at 5 innings /90 pitches and dominating, you don't even think about pulling them. Other guys like Zach Stewart if they give you 5 innings of shut-down ball, you should be borderline religiously euphoric.

Axelrod was solid first time through Brewers order, I won't take that away from him. But so was Zach Stewart against the Cubs if you recall - that is, until Starin Castro hit with 2 outs, then he promptly unraveled. That's not unusual -- lesser talents can go from zero's-to-meltdown very fast, especially at the Cell, so an astute manager/pitching coach is alwas on the lookout for any sign of fatigue or loss of control.

Fact of the matter is, while Axelrod wasn't at 100 pitches yet-- as if it should matter one bit -- 2nd time through Brewers order, he was not fooling them, not only gave up another run but off the top of my head I can recount at least 3 warning track shots that usually leave the park on some nights here, including Lillibridge robbing Gomez. With Nate Jones not pitching since Monday and fully capable of going 2 innnings, with both Thornton and Crain available, not to mention Addison Reed in the 9th.... it's a no-brainer AFAIAC.

Make no mistake about: it's only June, but we ARE in a pennant race. You give away enough "winnable" games in June... September games may not matter much, as Sox have learned in the past. Likewise, going out of their way to preserve the bullpen yesterday not only almost backfired in the 6th but with Quintana pitching today, it may not have even been necessary the way he has been pitching thus far preserving the pen! Funny how that works. Kinda like essentially conceding Monday's game to the Cubs by starting Zach Stewart was completely subverted by overusing Peavy the very next day, 126 pitches in very hot humid conditions.....Sox ended up losing BOTH games, anyway.

That's what often happens when teams and guru-pitching coaches like Coop in particular try to be too cute, too clever for their own good, getting too greedy with AAAA talents like Axelrod.



Think of it this way, balke: you're a Brewers batter in the 6th. Your team is trailing. What would you rather face ----

A) somewhat tiring Dylan Axelrod pitch let's say #93 -- having already faced him twice on the day?

B) or Nate Jones pitch #1, 2, 5 whatever..... having never seen his 98 mph heat and late-breaking slider?

I think I know what 95% of major leaguers answer will be....



(yes, I know Nate Jones failed to corral a routine ground ball which could have spared Sox a lot of head-ache had he made it..... but again, this is what happens when you put a pitcher in a JAM, tied ballgame......versus handling the pen more proactively, with more foresight by letting Jones confortably start the 6th from scratch, with bases empty, infield playing back...pitching with a lead--- with more pressure on the Brewers hitters, accordingly).

I try not to second-guess after the fact. Try to be consistent. This isn't 1968. Bullpen is there for a reason; highly specialized and well-compensated monetarily. Even in case of over-use related injury, much easier to replace on year-to-year basis than it is to replace a quality starter (which is why I hated how Ozzie burned out Danks and Humber arms in games where Sox had blow-outs late, for instance). Moreover, most relievers are much tougher 1st time through the order than starters 3rd and 4th time just by virtue of having better stuff and attack mentality.

Either way, Axelrod does not deserve benefit of the doubt until he consistently earns it. Baby steps.