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Lip Man 1
06-20-2012, 11:12 PM
Very interesting column, should promote some lively discussions here to be sure:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0621-haugh-city-series-chicago--20120621,0,2585309.column

Quotes Brooks on ticket prices for Cubs-Sox series.

Lip

DSpivack
06-20-2012, 11:29 PM
It's a nice start, though the violence nonsense is just hashing up crap the Tribune has tried to spew about the White Sox for a long time now. Haugh touched a bit on the pricing, but not enough, IMHO, as I think that's the major factor. As well as the team sliding into mediocrity since the 2007 season.

WhiteSox5187
06-20-2012, 11:37 PM
It's a nice start, though the violence nonsense is just hashing up crap the Tribune has tried to spew about the White Sox for a long time now. Haugh touched a bit on the pricing, but not enough, IMHO, as I think that's the major factor. As well as the team sliding into mediocrity since the 2007 season.

Agreed, the non-sense about the violence is well, non-sense. If you're coming from La Grange or whatever suburb he mentioned it's not likely you're going to be driving through a place like Englewood or some high crime area on your way to or from the park. Besides the low expectations going into the year and mediocre play on the field the fact that a ticket to the bleachers cost $90 and an Upper Reserved ticket cost $54 is what kept people away. Maybe Mr. Boyer didn't feel "comfortable taking it any lower than that" but if he wants people to come to the park they are going to have to lower the price. This is all about supply and demand and the demand is just not there to justify the prices the White Sox are asking fans to pay.

soxfanreggie
06-20-2012, 11:42 PM
Haugh touched a bit on the pricing, but not enough, IMHO, as I think that's the major factor.

Ding-ding-ding! When you're talking about $90 for bleacher seats, you aren't going to find a lot of families of four (Sox fans) that would likely have to spend over $400 to go to a mid-week game. In addition, not as many Cubs' fans as in years pass are going to spend that amount of money to go see their (last place) team this year.

DSpivack
06-20-2012, 11:44 PM
Ding-ding-ding! When you're talking about $90 for bleacher seats, you aren't going to find a lot of families of four (Sox fans) that would likely have to spend over $400 to go to a mid-week game. In addition, not as many Cubs' fans as in years pass are going to spend that amount of money to go see their (last place) team this year.

On top of that, it was a weekday series when it's usually a weekend series.

Noneck
06-20-2012, 11:54 PM
I think this attendance issue will continue. I am really curious what will happen if the Sox are say 2 1/2 out in 3rd place in the end of July. Ownership better be real careful what they do, unless they have things all figured out how to make money drawing 1.2M next year and maybe they already do.

Wedema
06-20-2012, 11:55 PM
Brooks was not comfortable taking the ticket prices lower for the Cub games? Wow, how comfortable was he looking at the empty seats in the series? He is clueless rignt now and needs to go!

DSpivack
06-21-2012, 12:08 AM
I think this attendance issue will continue. I am really curious what will happen if the Sox are say 2 1/2 out in 3rd place in the end of July. Ownership better be real careful what they do, unless they have things all figured out how to make money drawing 1.2M next year and maybe they already do.

1.2M, well below the threshold where the state will pay the Sox because of low attendance?

Brooks was not comfortable taking the ticket prices lower for the Cub games? Wow, how comfortable was he looking at the empty seats in the series? He is clueless rignt now and needs to go!

While I agree, the buck doesn't stop at Brooks' desk.

kevingrt
06-21-2012, 12:11 AM
Brooks was not comfortable taking the ticket prices lower for the Cub games? Wow, how comfortable was he looking at the empty seats in the series? He is clueless rignt now and needs to go!

While I really like Brooks either he needs to be fired or resign because he has no say in whatever is going on.

MUsoxfan
06-21-2012, 12:11 AM
Brooks was not comfortable taking the ticket prices lower for the Cub games? Wow, how comfortable was he looking at the empty seats in the series? He is clueless rignt now and needs to go!

I agree

He wasn't comfortable selling horrible seats for less than $100 each? That should be a red flag that he has no sense of reality and needs to be relieved of his duties. A recent college grad would do a better job

MUsoxfan
06-21-2012, 12:14 AM
Also, this series should tell him that not only has he priced him out of Sox fans in Chicago, he's priced himself out of ALL fans in Chicago. And that's really saying something.

DSpivack
06-21-2012, 12:14 AM
I agree

He wasn't comfortable selling horrible seats for less than $100 each? That should be a red flag that he has no sense of reality and needs to be relieved of his duties. A recent college grad would do a better job

Only if that recent grad had any power in that position.

MUsoxfan
06-21-2012, 12:17 AM
Only if that recent grad had any power in that position.


Power is good and bad. I don't know why Brooks is looked upon so highly within the organization when he costs the team so much money and doesn't really deny it

Lip Man 1
06-21-2012, 12:39 AM
I asked David tonight about the "violence" reference and he said it was included for two reasons, he said it's been a hot topic in Chicago this summer (I assume that there have been some incidents in the city the past few weeks) and because he said he was told it from fans that he was talking to at the game Wednesday.

I told him that it might be a small factor but that in my opinion the larger factors were, dynamic-pricing, mediocrity over the past six years, Ozzie ripping the fan base and Sox management doing nothing to rebuke those statements over the past few years and an off season of zero expectations with nothing done to excite the fan base.

Lip

mbwhitesox
06-21-2012, 12:40 AM
Ticket prices ARE too high. I'm in my mid 20s and in grad school. Recently I met a girl who is also a Sox fan and thought it would be fun to take her to a game. I looked into this upcoming series against the Brewers and UD tickets are $45 each! With Ticketmaster fees that's nearly $100 before you even get in the door...for the upper deck! Even seats in the lousy sections of the UD were $35 apiece. God forbid you want to get a few beers or something to eat - it really adds up fast. I know Milwaukee doesn't come into town very often so maybe that's some of the reason for the high prices, but still...

For my money I'd rather just go out to dinner or to a bar or something. Baseball is fun and I love going to games but personally the Sox have priced me out.

Unrelated, but I was watching the Nats game on MLB.tv tonight and the announcers talked about a pretty cool ticket promotion they had - buy 3 games and get a free New Era cap (http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/was/ticketing/flex.jsp). Out of curiosity I looked into it and they had decent tickets available for about $25 each. I wish the Sox would do something like that, seems like a great way to get people wearing your team gear and sell tickets for games in the later months of the season.

hawkjt
06-21-2012, 12:52 AM
Pricing is a huge problem,clearly. The Good News? At least Sox telecasts are up 10% from last year,and radio ratings up 26%,so there are some Sox fans out there anyway.

I live on the NW side ,and I seem to see more Sox hats than Cub hats around here. Big in the latin community,I think.

Brooks needs to think about that 90 dollar bleacher seat....that is ridiculous.

Now, Cub tickets are even more expensive,and I find myself marveling that they have any fans in their place at those prices.

Honestly, I think they should just not comment on attendance,and lower prices...and let nature take its course. Commenting seems to just piss off more fans. Many Sox fans on here will be pissed if they add at the trade deadline,as they prefer that Kenny sell anyway. He will enrage some Sox fans no matter what he does.

central44
06-21-2012, 01:07 AM
I was watching Chicago Tribune Live a few weeks back (yeah I know, sue me) and I remember they were discussing this. Teddy Greenstein compared the Sox situation to the Tribune, saying that people approached him on the street about doing more in depth college football coverage, and he would always say that they didn't have the money, and if people wanted that they should buy more papers and that "they had no comeback for that."

...This has absolutley nothing to do with the thread, I just thought it was stupid when I heard it and have been waiting weeks to express that sentiment.

But really. This is a business, and the fans don't owe them a damn thing--especially in a two-team market. If we wanted (and i'm not advocating this, but hypothetically) we could all jump ship and become Cub fans.

If they want to be cheap, or price fans out, or alienate the fans (personally, I have never p***** on a statue, but that's just me), then they'll get what they deserve with the half-empty stadium. It's not our job to support the team, it's THEIR job to put together a team worth supporting. The fans will come if given a reason to. Right now, between the inconsistency and overpriced seats, that reason hasn't been strong enough.

The best owners in pro sports are the ones who don't treat it as a business, but as a hobby. They're the ones who aren't afraid to lose money because they do it for fun, and wanting to see a winner. And i'm willing to bet that they do just fine with regard to turning a profit.

Mod edit: DO NOT self-censor or attempt to get around the language filters. Type the word you mean and let the filters do their job.

hawkjt
06-21-2012, 01:33 AM
Some Sox fans will not come out until they actually clinch,and then they would say ''why bother,its over''.

Even in the 2005,when they wire to wire, some fans did not jump on board,because they always doubted that they could hold on all the way.

2006 is the only year where fans showed up early,it seems to me.

Isn't there a ban on attendance threads on here anymore? Just wondering?

thomas35forever
06-21-2012, 01:38 AM
Brooks really does need to do something about ticket prices if that ship hasn't sailed yet. If he doesn't and the Sox are contending well into September with the same number of people in the seats, it'll be time to head in a different direction. He's not doing himself any favors right now keeping prices as they are. I mean, premier prices for Milwaukee? Seriously? That's like having them for the Dodgers series a couple of years back. This is NOT the way to fill up the ballpark in a bad economy. Things aren't much better in St. Louis (having just been there last week), but they still have much lower prices for even good seats in the place. Why can't Brooks take a clue from them? It's gotta be one reason Busch Stadium comes close to a sellout every night.

LITTLE NELL
06-21-2012, 05:20 AM
90 ****ing dollars for a ****ing bleacher seat says it all.
Boyer said he didn't feel comfortable lowering prices for the Cub series, how can he feel comfortable charging the prices they do for tickets and parking?

amsteel
06-21-2012, 06:17 AM
If the Sox somehow win the division with around 85 wins and lose the LDS in 3-4 games, is attendance really gonna be up that much next year?

MtGrnwdSoxFan
06-21-2012, 06:25 AM
If the Sox somehow win the division with around 85 wins and lose the LDS in 3-4 games, is attendance really gonna be up that much next year?

No, but you can bet the prices will be.

SOXfnNlansing
06-21-2012, 06:45 AM
I would have bought 4 tickets each to the first 2 games if they were weekend games. Price would not have been an issue. The Sox killed the golden goose by scheduling the games during the week. I'm glad they didn't sell out.

roylestillman
06-21-2012, 06:46 AM
Maddening article. The Brooks quote was the topper.

Let's take a look at a lower box seat for Monday night. A "Regular Game" ticket would have been $40. (actually $20 with the Monday discount.) Because it's the Cubs it is a Premier game and listed under my handy ticket pricing matrix as $54. I bought six tickets a couple of months ago through the Sox for $79 each. The day before the game the Sox site listed those seats for $104.

Brooks claims that it's just like the airlines price their tickets. Great plan, given that almost every airline has gone into bankruptcy over the last couple of decades. At least I get a free Coke during the flight

Steelrod
06-21-2012, 07:15 AM
I would have bought 4 tickets each to the first 2 games if they were weekend games. Price would not have been an issue. The Sox killed the golden goose by scheduling the games during the week. I'm glad they didn't sell out.
You don't really think that the Sox schedule their games, do you? Can't imagine that thay'd desire 9 home games in July, now that school is over for the summer.

Jollyroger2
06-21-2012, 07:23 AM
Ticket prices ARE too high. I'm in my mid 20s and in grad school. Recently I met a girl who is also a Sox fan and thought it would be fun to take her to a game. I looked into this upcoming series against the Brewers and UD tickets are $45 each! With Ticketmaster fees that's nearly $100 before you even get in the door...for the upper deck! Even seats in the lousy sections of the UD were $35 apiece. God forbid you want to get a few beers or something to eat - it really adds up fast. I know Milwaukee doesn't come into town very often so maybe that's some of the reason for the high prices, but still...

For my money I'd rather just go out to dinner or to a bar or something. Baseball is fun and I love going to games but personally the Sox have priced me out.

Unrelated, but I was watching the Nats game on MLB.tv tonight and the announcers talked about a pretty cool ticket promotion they had - buy 3 games and get a free New Era cap (http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/was/ticketing/flex.jsp). Out of curiosity I looked into it and they had decent tickets available for about $25 each. I wish the Sox would do something like that, seems like a great way to get people wearing your team gear and sell tickets for games in the later months of the season.

The Nationals have some very good ticket options, not bad with the team in first and some high profile players on the roster.

doublem23
06-21-2012, 07:43 AM
So, percieved threat of relatively non-existant violence is the new, cool scapegoat for why Sox fans can't be bothered to show up at the park?

OK.

I also love how you guys think Brooks is the guy who actually sets the ticket prices. :rolling:

balke
06-21-2012, 08:29 AM
Wouldn't you want 40,000 fans buying 35 dollar tickets with the hope they buy jerseys/drinks/food and whatever else once inside? I would think that would be better than 20,000 fans buying $100 tickets.

I don't believe price is the only thing keeping Sox fans out though. I don't get the results of where they are now compared to the support they get. Then again I say the same thing about the Rays year after year.

Just looked - more people are coming out to see the Astros right now than the Sox. Sox are just ahead of Tampa Bay. 4th to last in the league.

TomBradley72
06-21-2012, 08:33 AM
I think Brooks got off to a great start as the marketing guy for the Sox- creative commercials, ad campaigns, promotions, etc.

But he now comes across as out of new and creative ideas and pretty stubborn:


It's now almost July- and I'm still seeing Robin Ventura's grand slam in 1991 followed by Robin standing in an empty stadium in the offseason? Really? That's the best you can do with an exciting and likeable team in 1st place? (How about "Let Go White Sox" playing over highlights of Humer's perfect game? Viciedo's diving catch on Opening Day? Dunn on pace for 50+ HRs? etc.)
The pricing is horrible- the corners of the 100 bowl might as well have tarps over the seats- it's just horrible- stop with the bull**** promos that expire at 2pm etc.- clean up and staiblize your pricing for your fans- be aggressive- get people in the seats- especially the 100 level that shows up on TV and highlights- all of these images of an empty stadium are killing you.
Adjust the stadium experience a little- fire up "Sweet Home Chicago" after a win- not the dead silence followed by a player being interviewed in an empty stadium as people leave- get a feeling of celebration and fun going after each win.

dickallen15
06-21-2012, 08:51 AM
I asked David tonight about the "violence" reference and he said it was included for two reasons, he said it's been a hot topic in Chicago this summer (I assume that there have been some incidents in the city the past few weeks) and because he said he was told it from fans that he was talking to at the game Wednesday.

I told him that it might be a small factor but that in my opinion the larger factors were, dynamic-pricing, mediocrity over the past six years, Ozzie ripping the fan base and Sox management doing nothing to rebuke those statements over the past few years and an off season of zero expectations with nothing done to excite the fan base.

Lip

I agree. There is always a carryover from the previous season. There was really nothing last year or during the offseason that generated any excitement, so pre sales and season tickets sales will be down. For attendance to boom, you will need in season ticket buying. Dynamic pricing doesn't lend itself toward that. They have priced out anyone wanting to jump on the bandwagon.

russ99
06-21-2012, 08:56 AM
Wouldn't you want 40,000 fans buying 35 dollar tickets with the hope they buy jerseys/drinks/food and whatever else once inside? I would think that would be better than 20,000 fans buying $100 tickets.

I don't believe price is the only thing keeping Sox fans out though. I don't get the results of where they are now compared to the support they get. Then again I say the same thing about the Rays year after year.

Just looked - more people are coming out to see the Astros right now than the Sox. Sox are just ahead of Tampa Bay. 4th to last in the league.

The Astros are an interesting case.

The new owner Jim Crane knew he upset a large majority of fans by agreeing to a move to the AL that Bud foisted on him, but from day one taking over for the despised Drayton McLane, he's tried to make good with the fans.

The Astros have shown a concerted effort to involve fan feedback on lots of decisions as minor as food at the park and as major as their new uniforms next year.

He also hired a GM that for the first time since Gerry Hunsicker's owner meddling-involved resignation knows what he's doing and it shows on the field.

So while the Astros will still lose 85-95 games this year, they have good momentum with the fans.

The Sox should learn a thing or two... Too much of an adversarial relationship and always dangling the carrot. It's time for a new approach, be it in marketing or the front office.

Rocky Soprano
06-21-2012, 08:56 AM
I really hope someone in the Sox organization, with power, reads this thread. I used to go to close to 20 games per year but the ticket/parking prices are now ridiculous. I could afford it but I choose to spend my hard earned money wisely. If pricing were lower, I am sure more people would show up. They will make up the discount on the ticket in what they charge for parking, drinks, food, etc. It is really not that hard of a concept. An empty seat is not worth more than a filled seat.

WhiffleBall
06-21-2012, 08:58 AM
Haugh and Rogers articles were both good today. The Sox do need to take a hard look at ticket pricing but you are not going to get even close to $5 seats for these crosstown games. Maybe break up these massive outfield sections into different pricing tiers, the first 15 rows of the bleachers for the cubs for $90 is probably true market value. Then make the rest of the rows $75. They could probably do the same for many other sections. They could actually charge a lot more for the first 10 rows in the lower level between the bases. Those go for $200+ on stubhub for high demand games but the regular price is the same as seats in row 37. A person could make a living reselling blocks of those seats which I would presume is how places like Gold Coast tickets pay for their high overhead. That Nationals package with the 3 games get a free hat deal sounds like something the Sox should be doing. If it is a nice enough hat then it is like getting one game free.

Regarding some of the other comments in this thread, the Sox do not control the schedule. They may have some input but MLB has the final say in all things schedule related. We would not be hearing about the low turnout for these games if this had been a weekend series especially if it was last weekend with Fathers day on Sunday which I'm 100% sure is what the Sox would have preferred.

The violence thing is ridiculous. You have to travel pretty far from the cell to find a truly dangerous neighborhood. Yes crime does trend upwards when it gets hot but that has nothing to do with going to a baseball game other than the standard issues you have with large crowds.

I also find it hard to believe that Ozzie's rants and the Sox reactions to those rants are keeping anyone away from the ballpark. I think almost all fans have moved on from Ozzie even those who put him on a Ditka like pedestal (all 6 of them). The Sox reaction to Ozzie was to let him out of his contract early/sent him packing depending on how you interpret the move.

Tragg
06-21-2012, 09:00 AM
And yet when the author mentions a specific piece to add, he mentions the mediocre, but clubhouse "great" (read media great) Dempster.

Quentin08
06-21-2012, 09:00 AM
The Sox have always had attendance issues. I've been a fan since '93, and this issue comes up every year.

I remember in '06, I went to a game on a Monday night with some out of towners. It was half price night, and my friends were expecting people to be lined up outside the ticket window ready to sell the place out to see the world champs. Only 27,000 fans showed up.. the UD was half empty. I'll never forget my friend turning to me and saying this is a disgrace. Granted the fans showed up in the 2nd half and sold out a string of consecutive home games, but still every season that I can remember, attendance has been a hot topic of conversation. I think the fact that we lost 5,000 season ticket holders this season and are still averaging 22,000 per game is quite impressive in the context of things.

Jerko
06-21-2012, 09:10 AM
The headline had more to it than the article IMO. I don't care about Brooks' drive to work, or how they "Feel like a team even though they don't throw or catch". Barf. I AM sick of them crying poor because of attendance. Either make a move or don't Kenny, quit waxing poetic about it every ****ing June. As for violence, there is probably more violence INSIDE the park during these obnoxious BP classic games than on the way to, or outside the park.

soxgirl617
06-21-2012, 09:16 AM
A lot of interesting thoughts in this thread, and I certainly don't know how to solve the "attendance issue". However, I'll just note that, at least partially thanks to the ridiculous decision to make bleacher seats $90 (WTH---I think that's more than the absurd prices at Wrigley!), and Upper Deck $54, we were able to sell our Premium Club Box seats on StubHub for two of the three Cub games. (Work conflicts prevented going to the games.) We got more than we pay for the seats, and they were still less than bleacher seats. That is just crazy. You know something is wrong when the Sox set "dynamic" prices for bleacher seats higher than the going rate for their most expensive (barring scout seats and the ridiculous Gold Coast Tickets club) seats.

Procol Harum
06-21-2012, 09:22 AM
Wouldn't you want 40,000 fans buying 35 dollar tickets with the hope they buy jerseys/drinks/food and whatever else once inside? I would think that would be better than 20,000 fans buying $100 tickets.

I don't believe price is the only thing keeping Sox fans out though. I don't get the results of where they are now compared to the support they get. Then again I say the same thing about the Rays year after year.

Just looked - more people are coming out to see the Astros right now than the Sox. Sox are just ahead of Tampa Bay. 4th to last in the league.

Actually, 20,000 fans buying seats at $100 would be better for the Sox than 40,000 tickets at $35--i.e., $2,000,000 as opposed to $1,400,000, and that's the way the Sox are thinking. But nonetheless your basic example holds: the problem comes when seats remain empty because you're trying to sell seats at $100 a pop to a fan base that is willing--all other things being even--to pay say, $35. That's what the Sox have run up against in this terrible economy and with an on-the-field product that hasn't exactly been lights out for the last 3-4 years: a lack of demand at market prices.

It's apparent the Sox have lost their wager on dynamic pricing (and heck, let's face it--the entire pricing structure including tickets to all games, refreshments, parking, etc.) because the demand--at these prices--just isn't there. The Sox would be well advised to scrap dynamic pricing and consider trimming back other prices to start attracting more customers.

BainesHOF
06-21-2012, 09:26 AM
I think Brooks got off to a great start as the marketing guy for the Sox- creative commercials, ad campaigns, promotions, etc.

But he now comes across as out of new and creative ideas and pretty stubborn:


It's now almost July- and I'm still seeing Robin Ventura's grand slam in 1991 followed by Robin standing in an empty stadium in the offseason? Really? That's the best you can do with an exciting and likeable team in 1st place? (How about "Let Go White Sox" playing over highlights of Humer's perfect game? Viciedo's diving catch on Opening Day? Dunn on pace for 50+ HRs? etc.)
The pricing is horrible- the corners of the 100 bowl might as well have tarps over the seats- it's just horrible- stop with the bull**** promos that expire at 2pm etc.- clean up and staiblize your pricing for your fans- be aggressive- get people in the seats- especially the 100 level that shows up on TV and highlights- all of these images of an empty stadium are killing you.
Adjust the stadium experience a little- fire up "Sweet Home Chicago" after a win- not the dead silence followed by a player being interviewed in an empty stadium as people leave- get a feeling of celebration and fun going after each win.


All excellent points. They're also pretty obvious, too. You have to wonder what's going on in the front office.

Boyer is a liability. He's never understood the sport and the team, and apparently he's become lazy, too. The continued running of the Ventura preseason commercial and now the new one with some ticket front-office guy sitting in an empty stadium are epic fails. Returning emails only goes so far.

dickallen15
06-21-2012, 09:29 AM
Actually, 20,000 fans buying seats at $100 would be better for the Sox than 40,000 tickets at $35--i.e., $2,000,000 as opposed to $1,400,000, and that's the way the Sox are thinking. Of course, the Sox aren't trying to sell that many tickets at that price and the relative alternative wouldn't be that low, either. But nonetheless the example holds: the problem comes in actually trying to sell those seats at $100 a pop for a fan base that is willing, all other things being even to pay, say, $40. That's what the Sox have run up against amid a terrible economy and with an on-the-field product that hasn't exactly been lights out for the last 3-4 years.

It's apparent the Sox have lost their wager on dynamic pricing (and heck, let's face it--the entire pricing structure including tickets to all games, refreshments, parking, etc.) because the demand--at these prices just isn't there. The Sox would be well advised to scrap dynamic pricing and consider trimming back other prices to start attracting more customers.
Initially they get more but when you factor in parking, concessions and souveniers, they are most likely losing out. I read an article a few years ago when ticket prices were a lot lower which stated the average fan spends more money on those things than they did buying their ticket. Now if someone buys a $105 ticket to sit in the LF corner, do they skimp on concessions? Obviously the Sox have more of that kind of information available to them and they chose this route. I just don't see where pricing out the average Joe is going to help them in the short or long run.

Harry Potter
06-21-2012, 09:38 AM
The violence argument is a joke especially when it has been much more dangerous in the area immediately surrounding Wrigley Field than US Cellular Field as of late.

I live up in Lakeview and the increase in violence up that area is rather alarming.

palehosepub
06-21-2012, 09:46 AM
The best line in the article:

"How many restaurateurs vow to improve the food only when the dining room is busier?"

Foulke You
06-21-2012, 10:12 AM
The Sox have always had attendance issues. I've been a fan since '93, and this issue comes up every year.

I remember in '06, I went to a game on a Monday night with some out of towners. It was half price night, and my friends were expecting people to be lined up outside the ticket window ready to sell the place out to see the world champs. Only 27,000 fans showed up.. the UD was half empty. I'll never forget my friend turning to me and saying this is a disgrace. Granted the fans showed up in the 2nd half and sold out a string of consecutive home games, but still every season that I can remember, attendance has been a hot topic of conversation. I think the fact that we lost 5,000 season ticket holders this season and are still averaging 22,000 per game is quite impressive in the context of things.
I really don't know what you are talking about. We had zero attendance issues in 2006 or 2007 for that matter. In 2006, 3,000,000 fans pushed the turnstyles which was 3rd overall in the American League. In 2007, we had 2.7 million fans (5th in the American League) to watch a dreadful 72W-90L season. We also had a lot of great attendance in the early 90s so it hasn't been a problem every single year.

The Sox are paying the piper this year for the disaster of 2011's "ALL IN" season combined with out of touch ticket pricing. The season ticket base dropped more than they are letting on and as PHG always correctly points out, it is season tickets that fill the park and not walk ups. Prolonged winning will sell more season ticket packages and the attendance will rise.

russ99
06-21-2012, 10:22 AM
While I'm sure they got a hit from season ticket renewals being down, I do think that the core Sox fan that buys their tickets well ahead of the season still does so.

I bought tickets to 7 games this year in February (down from my usual 15) and will pick up extra games when I want to and can afford to go.

IMO, where they're losing fans due to pricing are impulse "let's go to the game tomorrow" buys and walk-up, and the "dynamic pricing" doesn't help.

I can see that some fans would rather pass on going to a game when their choice is either buying highly priced "best seat available" tickets or the only relatively inexpensive ticket option in the upper deck past the dugouts.

hawkjt
06-21-2012, 10:34 AM
When you look at MLB attendance so far some things stand out:

1. These are the teams who have the biggest average decline in attendance from the prior year:
Twins, Yanks,Angels,Mets,Sox, in order.

So they are teams that have had disappointing prior seasons,or have the highest ticket prices,or both.

Only the Cubs buck this trend by being slightly higher than last year.

2. Attendance as a whole is up,but a big chunk of that has to be in Miami,with a jump of over 11k/game,due to the new stadium.
Texas and Baltimore are up significantly also.
Cleveland,Yanks and Sox are first place teams that are down from last year.

The Sox are near the bottom in attendance,but only by a few fans. They could jump 6 teams in attendance who are less than 500 more than the Sox at this point...a real cluster around 22k in average.

lpneck
06-21-2012, 10:37 AM
i think brooks got off to a great start as the marketing guy for the sox- creative commercials, ad campaigns, promotions, etc.

But he now comes across as out of new and creative ideas and pretty stubborn:


it's now almost july- and i'm still seeing robin ventura's grand slam in 1991 followed by robin standing in an empty stadium in the offseason? Really? That's the best you can do with an exciting and likeable team in 1st place? (how about "let go white sox" playing over highlights of humer's perfect game? Viciedo's diving catch on opening day? Dunn on pace for 50+ hrs? Etc.)
the pricing is horrible- the corners of the 100 bowl might as well have tarps over the seats- it's just horrible- stop with the bull**** promos that expire at 2pm etc.- clean up and staiblize your pricing for your fans- be aggressive- get people in the seats- especially the 100 level that shows up on tv and highlights- all of these images of an empty stadium are killing you.
adjust the stadium experience a little- fire up "sweet home chicago" after a win- not the dead silence followed by a player being interviewed in an empty stadium as people leave- get a feeling of celebration and fun going after each win.


+1,000,000

Johnny Mostil
06-21-2012, 11:07 AM
A little OT but something I'm curious about: does anybody have any idea how many "casual" fans buy tickets through StubHub rather than directly from the Sox?

I don't have any idea, but, since giving up my partial-season plan, have bought nearly all my tickets (just a few games a year now, given other time commitments) from StubHub.

I find the Sox ticket-price structure maddening, but personally irrelevant. Is it the same for many others, or not really?

Hitmen77
06-21-2012, 11:14 AM
I agree. There is always a carryover from the previous season. There was really nothing last year or during the offseason that generated any excitement, so pre sales and season tickets sales will be down. For attendance to boom, you will need in season ticket buying. Dynamic pricing doesn't lend itself toward that. They have priced out anyone wanting to jump on the bandwagon.

Lots of good points in this thread. But, I think this is a key factor. When you combine the offseason drop in season ticket holders and pre-season sales, there's no way this team is going to be able to charge high prices and expect the place to be packed in June.

The Sox are up there in the standings so far this year, but aside from their 2 week hot streak in late May, it's not like they're steamrolling through the rest of the league. They were pretty mediocre before May 17 and they've been rather flat all of this month.

If Sox ownership really expected attendance to suddenly skyrocket after a 2 week hot streak and at current prices, they're more out of touch than I imagined.

I agree that the idea that the increased violence around Chicago this summer is affecting attendance is silly. I don't think it's affected ticket sales in any noticeable way.

FoulTerritory
06-21-2012, 11:14 AM
Maddening article. The Brooks quote was the topper.

Let's take a look at a lower box seat for Monday night. A "Regular Game" ticket would have been $40. (actually $20 with the Monday discount.) Because it's the Cubs it is a Premier game and listed under my handy ticket pricing matrix as $54. I bought six tickets a couple of months ago through the Sox for $79 each. The day before the game the Sox site listed those seats for $104.

Brooks claims that it's just like the airlines price their tickets. Great plan, given that almost every airline has gone into bankruptcy over the last couple of decades. At least I get a free Coke during the flight

If brooks thinks that using dynamic pricing in the way airlines do will work for baseball then he has rocks in his head.

The reason airlines can jack up prices close to departure is because they know there will be one or two people with a need to be on said flight. Someone will have to buy a ticket on short notice because of a death in the family or a job interview, etc. So the airlines end up selling a lot of those super inflated tickets due to that type of short term demand.

Baseball games are not a need! They are just entertainment. No one is going to be compelled to buy a ticket on game day because of a life necessity. In fact, its the opposite. If demand for a game is low the prices should go down as the game approaches. That way you lure people in who hadn't planned to go and at least get butts in seats and profit off of the expensive parking and concessions.


Man. What is going on in the marketing department?

Thome25
06-21-2012, 11:15 AM
I'm a longtime Sox fan (20+ years) and this team's attendance issues are wearing EXTREMELY thin after all of this bull**** year in and year out.

Whatever the reasons be it fans' supposed lack of funds, or our "show me fair weather attitude" or the current ownership regime's being clueless when it comes to realizing that they have to put a good product on the field before fans will buy into it, there is absolutely no excuse for a team in the 3rd largest market in the country being in the bottom 3 in attendance.

We fans and team ownership are both to blame for this. It has been going on for far too long and IMO it's obscenely pathetic.

This organization and the players on the field deserve so much better. As a result, the fans and ownership are cultivating a poor image for Chicago sports fans in general with this pathetic nonsense.

It's to the point where I wish the current regime would just sell the team to an ownership group that better understands the White Sox fair weather fanbase.

EDIT: This post is MY OPINION so take it FWIW....I'm not saying I'm right. Just putting my 2 cents in.

doublem23
06-21-2012, 11:21 AM
The violence argument is a joke especially when it has been much more dangerous in the area immediately surrounding Wrigley Field than US Cellular Field as of late.

I live up in Lakeview and the increase in violence up that area is rather alarming.

There has been an uptick in violence in some South Side neighborhoods, the problem is that the Trib, other media, and people in general refer to the entire city south of Roosevelt as "the South Side," so even when some banger gets killed in the Wild 100s, it reflects poorly on Bridgeport even though its 8 miles from the park. When someone gets shot in Uptown or Humboldt Park, people don't immediately think of the entire North Side as one homogeneous area.

soltrain21
06-21-2012, 11:21 AM
I'm a longtime Sox fan (20+ years) and this team's attendance issues are wearing EXTREMELY thin after all of this bull**** year in and year out.

Whatever the reasons be it fans' supposed lack of funds, or our "show me fair weather attitude" or the current ownership regime's being clueless when it comes to realizing that they have to put a good product on the field before fans will buy into it, there is absolutely no excuse for a team in the 3rd largest market in the country being in the bottom 3 in attendance.

We fans and team ownership are both to blame for this. It has been going on for far too long and IMO it's obscenely pathetic.

This organization and the players on the field deserve so much better. As a result, the fans and ownership are cultivating a poor image for Chicago sports fans in general with this pathetic nonsense.

How are fans to blame? Games are expensive. If people don't want to spend that money then they have every right not to.

I love the White Sox. I'm not a "bad fan" because I can't afford to go to a ton of games. We just put a new roof on our house.

Standing Ovation
06-21-2012, 11:23 AM
i'm a longtime sox fan (20+ years) and this team's attendance issues are wearing extremely thin after all of this bull**** year in and year out.

Whatever the reasons be it fans' supposed lack of funds, or our "show me fair weather attitude" or the current ownership regime's being clueless when it comes to realizing that they have to put a good product on the field before fans will buy into it, there is absolutely no excuse for a team in the 3rd largest market in the country being in the bottom 3 in attendance.

We fans and team ownership are both to blame for this. It has been going on for far too long and imo it's obscenely pathetic.

This organization and the players on the field deserve so much better. As a result, the fans and ownership are cultivating a poor image for chicago sports fans in general with this pathetic nonsense.

It's to the point where i wish the current regime would sell the team to an ownership group that better understands the white sox fair weather fanbase.

-1

Jason82807
06-21-2012, 11:27 AM
It's simple. There needs to be more pricing categories in the seating map, and those corners need to be reduced significantly. The $14 upper corners dynamic pricing for the Brewers series seems to be an acknowledgement that those seats had zero chance of selling at premier pricing. They did the same thing for the weeknight Jays series with $5 seats. They need to expand those dynamic discounts to the lower corners and eventually maybe have a separate pricing tier for those upper and lower corners.

Even if the Sox don't make much money on the ticket price, a full house will lead to more revenue from parking, concessions, and advertisements. I feel they can maintain their high parking and concessions prices if they lower the ticket prices, and everyone will come out ahead.

Thome25
06-21-2012, 11:28 AM
How are fans to blame? Games are expensive. If people don't want to spend that money then they have every right not to.

I love the White Sox. I'm not a "bad fan" because I can't afford to go to a ton of games. We just put a new roof on our house.

Sure there's plenty of fans who are hit hard by the bad economy and live on a budget etc. (I'm one of them) but, being in the country's 3rd largest market, there should be more fans out there who CAN afford to go to games.

Plus, this fair weather nonsense from the fanbase is getting older than old. I spent the first 25 years of my life in Chicago. I went to about 6-10 Sox games EVERY year....even in bad years like the "kids can play" era.

It would be nice to be like one of the large market clubs with deep pockets for once...you know, they ones that can actually go out and get players when the team is bad or when it's on the cusp of the playoffs and needs that extra push.

Just my opinion though....doesn't mean it's right. Just take it FWIW.

Hitmen77
06-21-2012, 11:29 AM
I'm a longtime Sox fan (20+ years) and this team's attendance issues are wearing EXTREMELY thin after all of this bull**** year in and year out.

Whatever the reasons be it fans' supposed lack of funds, or our "show me fair weather attitude" or the current ownership regime's being clueless when it comes to realizing that they have to put a good product on the field before fans will buy into it, there is absolutely no excuse for a team in the 3rd largest market in the country being in the bottom 3 in attendance.

We fans and team ownership are both to blame for this. It has been going on for far too long and IMO it's obscenely pathetic.

This organization and the players on the field deserve so much better. As a result, the fans and ownership are cultivating a poor image for Chicago sports fans in general with this pathetic nonsense.

I completely disagree. I have been a loyal Sox fans for years. I go to my fair share of games.

All my life, I have been mostly surrounded by Cubs fans (at school, work, neighborhood). Does it make me a bad fan that most people in the 3rd largest market in Chicago either do not like or do not follow the Sox?

What am I supposed to do about it? Force other people to become die hard Sox fans?

What has worn thin is this "what wrong with YOU STUPID SOX fans?!" comments I get thrown in my face over and over from the media, from Cubs fans, and from other Sox fans. If my team has a small fan base compared to other big market teams, that translates the ballpark not being "packed". That doesn't make me a bad fan. That doesn't make the fan base of my favorite team "bad".

The current Sox ownership has been in place for 30 years now. What they have failed to do over that time is grow the market share of this team. I have no control over that no matter how many games I attend a year.

aryzner
06-21-2012, 11:31 AM
The $14 upper corners dynamic pricing for the Brewers series seems to be an acknowledgement that those seats had zero chance of selling at premier pricing.

I'm going to the Sunday game using this $14 deal with 7 other people and it's all because of the lowered price. I was not really considering it before. I heard about the deal and decided it was worth a trip to the ballpark for that price. (But to be honest, I'm not sure how much those tix were before this price change.)

Thome25
06-21-2012, 11:44 AM
I completely disagree. I have been a loyal Sox fans for years. I go to my fair share of games.

All my life, I have been mostly surrounded by Cubs fans (at school, work, neighborhood). Does it make me a bad fan that most people in the 3rd largest market in Chicago either do not like or do not follow the Sox?

What am I supposed to do about it? Force other people to become die hard Sox fans?

What has worn thin is this "what wrong with YOU STUPID SOX fans?!" comments I get thrown in my face over and over from the media, from Cubs fans, and from other Sox fans. If my team has a small fan base compared to other big market teams, that translates the ballpark not being "packed". That doesn't make me a bad fan. That doesn't make the fan base of my favorite team "bad".

The current Sox ownership has been in place for 30 years now. What they have failed to do over that time is grow the market share of this team. I have no control over that no matter how many games I attend a year.

So you're saying that the 3rd largest market in the country can't support 2 MLB teams?

There are far more White Sox fans in the city and surrounding areas than the (what seems like) 20,000 or less fans that the White Sox have drawn pretty much every night indicates in my 20+ years as a fan of the team.

FielderJones
06-21-2012, 11:46 AM
I'm going to the Sunday game using this $14 deal with 7 other people and it's all because of the lowered price. I was not really considering it before. I heard about the deal and decided it was worth a trip to the ballpark for that price. (But to be honest, I'm not sure how much those tix were before this price change.)

They weren't $14, that's for sure.

Jason82807
06-21-2012, 11:48 AM
They weren't $14, that's for sure.

I think they were around double that.

JB98
06-21-2012, 11:56 AM
90 ****ing dollars for a ****ing bleacher seat says it all.
Boyer said he didn't feel comfortable lowering prices for the Cub series, how can he feel comfortable charging the prices they do for tickets and parking?

The bottom line is a lot of Sox fans I know don't "feel comfortable" paying the prices the team is charging.

greenpeach
06-21-2012, 12:01 PM
I went to Dodger Stadium last weekend to watch the Sox play the Dodgers. My upper deck ticket (good view) was $7 & parking on site was only $10 per car. Next time I'm in California, I will not hesitate to take in another game or two.

JB98
06-21-2012, 12:05 PM
I completely disagree. I have been a loyal Sox fans for years. I go to my fair share of games.

All my life, I have been mostly surrounded by Cubs fans (at school, work, neighborhood). Does it make me a bad fan that most people in the 3rd largest market in Chicago either do not like or do not follow the Sox?

What am I supposed to do about it? Force other people to become die hard Sox fans?

What has worn thin is this "what wrong with YOU STUPID SOX fans?!" comments I get thrown in my face over and over from the media, from Cubs fans, and from other Sox fans. If my team has a small fan base compared to other big market teams, that translates the ballpark not being "packed". That doesn't make me a bad fan. That doesn't make the fan base of my favorite team "bad".

The current Sox ownership has been in place for 30 years now. What they have failed to do over that time is grow the market share of this team. I have no control over that no matter how many games I attend a year.

I agree with you completely. I go to 15-20 games per year. I think I do my part to support White Sox baseball. But yet I have to be told what a ****ty fan I am by the Sox organization, some members of the media, Cub fans and even some other Sox fans.

We all go to as many games as time and finances allow. End of story.

Thome25
06-21-2012, 12:19 PM
I agree with you completely. I go to 15-20 games per year. I think I do my part to support White Sox baseball. But yet I have to be told what a ****ty fan I am by the Sox organization, some members of the media, Cub fans and even some other Sox fans.

We all go to as many games as time and finances allow. End of story.

I don't think the issue is with the fans on this website. We are diehards who love the team enough to join a fan site and have/do go to as many games as we can.

The problem is that IMO the White Sox fanbase as a whole consists of far too many fans that could be considered casual/fair weather.

kevingrt
06-21-2012, 12:21 PM
I went to Dodger Stadium last weekend to watch the Sox play the Dodgers. My upper deck ticket (good view) was $7 & parking on site was only $10 per car. Next time I'm in California, I will not hesitate to take in another game or two.

I heard when the Magic Johnson ownership group took over one of his first moves was lowering parking from $15 to $10.

kittle42
06-21-2012, 12:24 PM
The problem is that IMO the White Sox fanbase as a whole consists of far too many fans that could be considered casual/fair weather.

I think that Sox fanbase consists of a lot of fans who demand a winner and value going to see a winning ballgame over much of the rest of the ballpark experience, i.e. "I'll pay $100 to go to a game if they're likely to win but not if they're going to lose."

Call it fair weather if you'd like, but I don't think it's casual.

DeadMoney
06-21-2012, 12:45 PM
Brooks really does need to do something about ticket prices if that ship hasn't sailed yet. If he doesn't and the Sox are contending well into September with the same number of people in the seats, it'll be time to head in a different direction. He's not doing himself any favors right now keeping prices as they are. I mean, premier prices for Milwaukee? Seriously? That's like having them for the Dodgers series a couple of years back. This is NOT the way to fill up the ballpark in a bad economy. Things aren't much better in St. Louis (having just been there last week), but they still have much lower prices for even good seats in the place. Why can't Brooks take a clue from them? It's gotta be one reason Busch Stadium comes close to a sellout every night.

I was also in St. Louis for the entire series and bought all tickets through St. Louis team site. Since buying those tickets in April, I have received multiple e-mails per week of their "Dynamic Ticket Deals". The big difference between the Cardinals "Deals" and the White Sox "Deals" is that the Cardinals significantly cut prices to get butts in the seats (what a logical/novel idea!). Heck, for the StL/KC series they significantly slashed prices. Similarly (looking back at my e-mails), they lowered Field Level seats for an early May series with Milwaukee to as low as $14. It's shocking to be that a team actually knows how to use Dynamic Pricing to benefit themselves.

Does our Marketing Department pay ANY attention to what other teams do? Because it certainly seems like they're stuck with their heads in the sand waiting for the GM to beg people to come out multiple times per season.

hdog1017
06-21-2012, 12:45 PM
There is no reason why the Sox should have the 4th highest avg. ticket price in baseball. Granted the cost is overstated over the past week since the Cubs were at the Cell, but Sox tix are still expensive in relation to the market.

There isn't enough demand out in the marketplace for White Sox baseball for them to be charging such high ticket prices. The White Sox brand is definitely behind the Cubs brand in terms of popularity in Chicago, and nationally, I would rank the White Sox brand in the lower half of MLB.

http://seatgeek.com/baseball-mlb-ticket-prices

dickallen15
06-21-2012, 12:50 PM
Last year the Sox attendance was 21st in baseball but their revenue was 10th. The fans did their part. If you are going to price tickets ridiculously, like Brooks has during the season, and you didn't have a good season last year, and nothing really to increase expectations over the winter, he's really lucky attendance isn't even lower.

Instead of basing White Sox ability to add payroll based on attendance, shouldn't it be based on revenue?

kittle42
06-21-2012, 12:55 PM
I was also in St. Louis for the entire series and bought all tickets through St. Louis team site. Since buying those tickets in April, I have received multiple e-mails per week of their "Dynamic Ticket Deals". The big difference between the Cardinals "Deals" and the White Sox "Deals" is that the Cardinals significantly cut prices to get butts in the seats (what a logical/novel idea!). Heck, for the StL/KC series they significantly slashed prices. Similarly (looking back at my e-mails), they lowered Field Level seats for an early May series with Milwaukee to as low as $14. It's shocking to be that a team actually knows how to use Dynamic Pricing to benefit themselves.

Does our Marketing Department pay ANY attention to what other teams do? Because it certainly seems like they're stuck with their heads in the sand waiting for the GM to beg people to come out multiple times per season.

Is there any other team in all of sports who does dynamic pricing in the exact reverse of how it should be?

How stupid are they? This is a fanbase who pays to see a winner, and it shows over the years. It's a team that has benefited from strong walkup sales in seasons where the team overachieves. Who the hell was going to buy tickets early (and, thus, "cheaper") this season, when the team all but announced it was not planning on making the playoffs? Then, when they're in first, gouge the fans by *raising* ticket prices for people who might want to go to a game on a lovely weeknight in late May or June?

**** you, Sox.

Lip Man 1
06-21-2012, 01:00 PM
Kittle:

Your post in response to Thome was well stated.

If the Sox want more fans, win more games...it's that simple.

Don't make the playoffs once every six years or so, don't average 84 wins a year for six seasons or so and don't have members of your organization bite the hand that feeds you by ripping either directly or indirectly the fan base.

It's not rocket science.

Lip

Sox35th
06-21-2012, 01:00 PM
For myself it stops at the parking lot... $25 what a joke!!
(Dodger Stadium only charges $10)

kobo
06-21-2012, 01:03 PM
I'm a longtime Sox fan (20+ years) and this team's attendance issues are wearing EXTREMELY thin after all of this bull**** year in and year out.

Whatever the reasons be it fans' supposed lack of funds, or our "show me fair weather attitude" or the current ownership regime's being clueless when it comes to realizing that they have to put a good product on the field before fans will buy into it, there is absolutely no excuse for a team in the 3rd largest market in the country being in the bottom 3 in attendance.

We fans and team ownership are both to blame for this. It has been going on for far too long and IMO it's obscenely pathetic.

This organization and the players on the field deserve so much better. As a result, the fans and ownership are cultivating a poor image for Chicago sports fans in general with this pathetic nonsense.

It's to the point where I wish the current regime would just sell the team to an ownership group that better understands the White Sox fair weather fanbase.

EDIT: This post is MY OPINION so take it FWIW....I'm not saying I'm right. Just putting my 2 cents in.
Supposed lack of funds? You don't know what each individual fan can and cannot afford. I was unemployed for almost 2 years and just recently found a job. Guess what, I have no money right now. In my situation I need to get some bills paid and get back on my feet, but if I could afford to go to a game I would. As it stands now, unless I find ticket codes for half off to a game I am not going to go see a game. That's the reality and I'm sure I'm not the only one with this type of situation.

It's outrageous that a ticket to a baseball game costs upwards of $50 a game. The Sox play 81 home games every year. I understand that payroll is high, but still, it's baseball. I have plenty of opportunities to go to a game if I am able, but it doesn't mean I have to or are willing to spend that kind of money for a ballgame.

guillensdisciple
06-21-2012, 01:06 PM
I went to Dodger Stadium last weekend to watch the Sox play the Dodgers. My upper deck ticket (good view) was $7 & parking on site was only $10 per car. Next time I'm in California, I will not hesitate to take in another game or two.

You gotta be ****ing kidding me..., coming from a big fan base and a big market.

Wow, that sais it all about white sox ticket prices.

Johnny Mostil
06-21-2012, 01:07 PM
There is no reason why the Sox should have the 4th highest avg. ticket price in baseball. Granted the cost is overstated over the past week since the Cubs were at the Cell, but Sox tix are still expensive in relation to the market.

There isn't enough demand out in the marketplace for White Sox baseball for them to be charging such high ticket prices. The White Sox brand is definitely behind the Cubs brand in terms of popularity in Chicago, and nationally, I would rank the White Sox brand in the lower half of MLB.

http://seatgeek.com/baseball-mlb-ticket-prices

Interesting to see the Brewers are the cheapest ticket in baseball: just 90 miles away from two of the most expensive.

I've thought of, but have yet to pulled the trigger on, taking my youngest to Milwaukee to see them. Not sure yet if $9 parking and upper-deck tix behind the plate for about $20 would offset the drive and a team five games under .500 . . .

You gotta be ****ing kidding me..., coming from a big fan base and a big market.

Wow, that sais it all about white sox ticket prices.

This is about a dozen years ago now, but when I lived in SoCal both the Dodgers and Angels had very well advertised "family" packages: four tix, four dogs, four drinks, and a souvenir for about $40. I can't remember if parking was included, and I've no idea what such a package might now cost.

Edit: it's $18 to $42 per ticket now for select Wednesday and Sunday games (http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/la/ticketing/valuepacks.jsp).

PatK
06-21-2012, 01:14 PM
The violence argument is a joke especially when it has been much more dangerous in the area immediately surrounding Wrigley Field than US Cellular Field as of late.

I live up in Lakeview and the increase in violence up that area is rather alarming.

You just had someone getting their throat slit in Wrigleyville (same night as a night game), and someone got killed outside the park after a game a couple of years ago.

The "violent neighborhood" argument is old, tired, and should be dead and buried.

Thome25
06-21-2012, 01:19 PM
Supposed lack of funds? You don't know what each individual fan can and cannot afford. I was unemployed for almost 2 years and just recently found a job. Guess what, I have no money right now. In my situation I need to get some bills paid and get back on my feet, but if I could afford to go to a game I would. As it stands now, unless I find ticket codes for half off to a game I am not going to go see a game. That's the reality and I'm sure I'm not the only one with this type of situation.

It's outrageous that a ticket to a baseball game costs upwards of $50 a game. The Sox play 81 home games every year. I understand that payroll is high, but still, it's baseball. I have plenty of opportunities to go to a game if I am able, but it doesn't mean I have to or are willing to spend that kind of money for a ballgame.

That's why I used the word "supposed". As in "alleged" or I'm not entirely sure whether Sox fans lack of funds or not. Look it up.

But, it has been said in this thread and in other places that fans can't fit the Sox into their budgets.

guillensdisciple
06-21-2012, 01:26 PM
Interesting to see the Brewers are the cheapest ticket in baseball: just 90 miles away from two of the most expensive.

I've thought of, but have yet to pulled the trigger on, taking my youngest to Milwaukee to see them. Not sure yet if $9 parking and upper-deck tix behind the plate for about $20 would offset the drive and a team five games under .500 . . .

This is about a dozen years ago now, but when I lived in SoCal both the Dodgers and Angels had very well advertised "family" packages: four tix, four dogs, four drinks, and a souvenir for about $40. I can't remember if parking was included, and I've no idea what such a package might now cost.

Edit: it's $18 to $42 per ticket now for select Wednesday and Sunday games (http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/la/ticketing/valuepacks.jsp).

Awesome deals, just awesome. They pack that place up on a year to year basis. Los Angeles is a historic franchise playing in a big market. Hmmmm the white sox have a smaller fan base and inconsistent attendance- I wonder....

In all honesty though, I have tried my hardest to buy tickets and fit the sox in. Had I not had the ability to ask my parents for an extra 10 bucks, I would probably be screwed. Ye I got nice parents, but when I leave this summer I probably won't go to a sox game for a while. Being out of state will be part of the reason, but even when i'm back to visit I'm not going to budget the sox in there with the money I won't have.

This is essentially the last year the sox take more money than they should from me.

Jerko
06-21-2012, 01:30 PM
Price aside, one of the problems as I see it, and I've been saying so for years, is this: When you DO go to a game, and it's a light crowd, or a day game, or the team stinks, or whatever, the place is staffed like they can't wait for the game to be over, and a lot of the people working there can't wait until we leave. Sitting in the LF corner and want a slice? Walk to the fan deck, the stand in left center is closed. Need a cold beer on the concourse in right center? Sorry, the permanent stand is closed, go chase a vendor or go to the fan deck. Need a chair so you can sit with your disabled friend or family member behind the last row of seats? Go 3 sections over to find an usher, maybe you'll get a metal chair younger than you before 3 innings pass. Parking? Well, you can park here if you have this pass, you cant park there without that pass, and cash only is over dere. Want to sit on the fan deck? Well, some nights it's open, some nights it's not. And I LIKE going to games. My point is, people that attend as a passing fancy probably don't come back after a typical in-park Sox experience.

kobo
06-21-2012, 01:33 PM
That's why I used the word "supposed". As in "alleged" or I'm not entirely sure whether Sox fans lack of funds or not. Look it up.

But, it has been said in this thread and in other places that fans can't fit the Sox into their budgets.
No need to get pissy with me. You're the one who seems to not believe when people say they can't afford to go to a game.

kittle42
06-21-2012, 01:38 PM
Price aside, one of the problems as I see it, and I've been saying so for years, is this: When you DO go to a game, and it's a light crowd, or a day game, or the team stinks, or whatever, the place is staffed like they can't wait for the game to be over, and a lot of the people working there can't wait until we leave. Sitting in the LF corner and want a slice? Walk to the fan deck, the stand in left center is closed. Need a cold beer on the concourse in right center? Sorry, the permanent stand is closed, go chase a vendor or go to the fan deck. Need a chair so you can sit with your disabled friend or family member behind the last row of seats? Go 3 sections over to find an usher, maybe you'll get a metal chair younger than you before 3 innings pass. Parking? Well, you can park here if you have this pass, you cant park there without that pass, and cash only is over dere. Want to sit on the fan deck? Well, some nights it's open, some nights it's not. And I LIKE going to games. My point is, people that attend as a passing fancy probably don't come back after a typical in-park Sox experience.

It's one of the least fan-friendly ballparks I've visited in the past few years (I've been to about 10 in that time) as far as a convenience/niceness/"I'd really like to come back here again" feeling.

Domeshot17
06-21-2012, 01:39 PM
I don't think the issue is with the fans on this website. We are diehards who love the team enough to join a fan site and have/do go to as many games as we can.

The problem is that IMO the White Sox fanbase as a whole consists of far too many fans that could be considered casual/fair weather.

I think you are way off personally. I would not consider myself fair weather at all. Probably watch all, if not most of, every game on TV unless I am out for the night. I used to go to 10-15 games a year.

That said, I have a 9 month old son. His first baseball game? The IHSA Final 4. His Next Game? Joliet Slammers at the same field. Would I love to take him to a Sox game, sure, but when you factor in the 140 bucks for 2 good seats (I am not lugging a 9 month old around the Upper Deck), then another 40 bucks to eat, 25 to park, it becomes a 200 dollar night out.

Sorry, but a .500 ish team that doesn't consistently make the playoffs, had a manager who trashed the fans, has a GM who blames the fans, and has a VP of marketing that doesn't even understand who his fan base is, yah, I will take that 200 bucks and do something else.

The White Sox have ruined the White Sox Experience. They are trying so hard to be something they are not, to attract fans that they don't have and won't be coming, is a joke.

I am sorry, but I better have 200 dollars worth of fun at a Sox Game and with this team you won't. I would not pay 200 bucks to eat at McDonalds either.

I think the final straw for me was last year. I realize you can't have a one size fits all approach to fans, all 40k are different. But as someone who has to evaluate market/consumer trends, if there was a forum dedicated to making my job easier, I would view it everyday. I had a long email exchange with Brooks, and it was frustrating. We talked about some common problems at the park, and Brooks answers were basically deal with it or don't go.

TomBradley72
06-21-2012, 01:39 PM
Price aside, one of the problems as I see it, and I've been saying so for years, is this: When you DO go to a game, and it's a light crowd, or a day game, or the team stinks, or whatever, the place is staffed like they can't wait for the game to be over, and a lot of the people working there can't wait until we leave. Sitting in the LF corner and want a slice? Walk to the fan deck, the stand in left center is closed. Need a cold beer on the concourse in right center? Sorry, the permanent stand is closed, go chase a vendor or go to the fan deck. Need a chair so you can sit with your disabled friend or family member behind the last row of seats? Go 3 sections over to find an usher, maybe you'll get a metal chair younger than you before 3 innings pass. Parking? Well, you can park here if you have this pass, you cant park there without that pass, and cash only is over dere. Want to sit on the fan deck? Well, some nights it's open, some nights it's not. And I LIKE going to games. My point is, people that attend as a passing fancy probably don't come back after a typical in-park Sox experience.

Well said!

One of the best examples I can remember of the White Sox "cheapness" was in the 90's when the 'souvenir" cups early in the season were the leftovers from the previous season. Reminded me of the scene from "Eight Men Out" with the stale champagne.

I've been to 20+ MLB ballparks- many when the attendance for a given game was in the 10-15,000 range- and I've NEVER experience the bull**** described in this post.

kittle42
06-21-2012, 02:00 PM
We talked about some common problems at the park, and Brooks answers were basically deal with it or don't go.

Well, at least he adopted the Sox' philosophy of the past few decades!

hawkjt
06-21-2012, 02:07 PM
I went to Dodger Stadium last weekend to watch the Sox play the Dodgers. My upper deck ticket (good view) was $7 & parking on site was only $10 per car. Next time I'm in California, I will not hesitate to take in another game or two.


This needs to be sent to Brooks....Dodgers have the best record in baseball,and they are selling at this price? Maybe Hawk should also be made aware of the price disparity.

FielderJones
06-21-2012, 02:09 PM
I had a long email exchange with Brooks, and it was frustrating. We talked about some common problems at the park, and Brooks answers were basically deal with it or don't go.

:rolling:


Incredible. Charge top tier prices when the demand is not there, blame the fans for not filling up the park when the prices are too high, and then tell us don't go if you don't want to.


:selljerry

And take your incompetent marketing department with you.

:shakehead:

Thome25
06-21-2012, 02:24 PM
I personally don't understand the White Sox fanbase sometimes. We complain that the team doesn't spend enough and as a result doesn't put good talent out on the field.

Then payroll goes up a lot over the last 5 to 7 years and as a result so do tickets, concessions, and parking and now our problem is that prices are too high.

We can't have it both ways with this ownership.

Sure, large market clubs like the Dodgers may have lower prices but, their ownership also draws more so they can afford to lower prices. The Sox draw less so ownership is trying to make up the difference by raising prices on those who do come...which may or may not be the best businessd practice. (IMO it's the latter)

kittle42
06-21-2012, 02:51 PM
I personally don't understand the White Sox fanbase sometimes. We complain that the team doesn't spend enough and as a result doesn't put good talent out on the field.

Then payroll goes up a lot over the last 5 to 7 years and as a result so do tickets, concessions, and parking and now our problem is that prices are too high.

...and they still don't have good talent out on the field.

Lip Man 1
06-21-2012, 02:52 PM
Thome:

Fine. But the Sox need to actually win something more than going to the playoff once every five to 10 years.

But the facts are they aren't....two World Series appearances since 1917.

If you want to charge like the Yankees you damn sure need to win like them no?

Lip

kittle42
06-21-2012, 02:55 PM
Thome:

Fine. But the Sox need to actually win something more than going to the playoff once every five to 10 years.

But the facts are they aren't....two World Series appearances since 1917.

If you want to charge like the Yankees you damn sure need to win like them no?



Correct, Lip.

I tell ya - if fans sold out the park every day, I still wouldn't trust this regime to spend the money right.

WhiffleBall
06-21-2012, 02:55 PM
Well said!

One of the best examples I can remember of the White Sox "cheapness" was in the 90's when the 'souvenir" cups early in the season were the leftovers from the previous season. Reminded me of the scene from "Eight Men Out" with the stale champagne.

I was in STL last week and the souvenir cups were from last years NLDS.

comiskey2000
06-21-2012, 03:00 PM
This needs to be sent to Brooks....Dodgers have the best record in baseball,and they are selling at this price? Maybe Hawk should also be made aware of the price disparity.

I wish someone did. But if parking was reduced to $10, I would go to more games. Can I afford $25? Yes. But if I go to three games, $75 to park does not sit well with me, which is fine. They price it how they need to. So instead I watch on my couch. Now I just need Hawk to stop commenting on how other fans support their club.

Hitmen77
06-21-2012, 03:03 PM
So you're saying that the 3rd largest market in the country can't support 2 MLB teams?

That's not what I said. Whether Chicago can support 2 teams and whether the Sox currently have enough market share in Chicago are different questions.

There are far more White Sox fans in the city and surrounding areas than the (what seems like) 20,000 or less fans that the White Sox have drawn pretty much every night indicates in my 20+ years as a fan of the team.

I disagree. The Cubs fans I know go to fewer Cubs games than I do Sox games. They, too, are influence by 1) prices 2) other personal commitments and 3) lousy play by the team.

The difference is that there are more Cubs fans. For every one of their fans who can't/won't make it to many games, there are plenty others from that fan base to fill the void (not to mention tourists, etc.)

I personally don't understand the White Sox fanbase sometimes. We complain that the team doesn't spend enough and as a result doesn't put good talent out on the field.

Then payroll goes up a lot over the last 5 to 7 years and as a result so do tickets, concessions, and parking and now our problem is that prices are too high.

We can't have it both ways with this ownership.

Sure, large market clubs like the Dodgers may have lower prices but, their ownership also draws more so they can afford to lower prices. The Sox draw less so ownership is trying to make up the difference by raising prices on those who do come...which may or may not be the best businessd practice. (IMO it's the latter)

There you go, ripping on Sox fans again. It's not our fault that market demand isn't there for the team. The question here is whether the Sox should be charging their current prices for a product that doesn't have much demand. They, as a business, need to decide that. But the current prices don't seem to be working for what the demand is for Sox tickets.

It's like Lip said, if they want to build up a stronger following, they need to be more consistent playoff contenders. The seasons since 2005 and 2008 have eroded ticket sales. After last year's disappointment and an offseason that seemed to indicate the team wasn't going to compete, their season tickets and pre-season sales were down again.

That low number of pre-sold tickets is a big hurdle to overcome. Just because the Sox had a 2 week hot streak in late May doesn't mean everyone gets a license to start ripping on the Sox fan base when the ballpark isn't suddenly full.

Wedema
06-21-2012, 03:05 PM
Price aside, one of the problems as I see it, and I've been saying so for years, is this: When you DO go to a game, and it's a light crowd, or a day game, or the team stinks, or whatever, the place is staffed like they can't wait for the game to be over, and a lot of the people working there can't wait until we leave. Sitting in the LF corner and want a slice? Walk to the fan deck, the stand in left center is closed. Need a cold beer on the concourse in right center? Sorry, the permanent stand is closed, go chase a vendor or go to the fan deck. Need a chair so you can sit with your disabled friend or family member behind the last row of seats? Go 3 sections over to find an usher, maybe you'll get a metal chair younger than you before 3 innings pass. Parking? Well, you can park here if you have this pass, you cant park there without that pass, and cash only is over dere. Want to sit on the fan deck? Well, some nights it's open, some nights it's not. And I LIKE going to games. My point is, people that attend as a passing fancy probably don't come back after a typical in-park Sox experience.

How about in the ninth inning when the ushers all go down towards the first rows and sit until the game ends. Then, even though the Sox announce for you to stay and watch Robin's post game press conference on the scoreboard, the ushers all direct you away from the field. I guess you have to sit in your exact seat to watch the press conference.

TomBradley72
06-21-2012, 03:19 PM
How about in the ninth inning when the ushers all go down towards the first rows and sit until the game ends. Then, even though the Sox announce for you to stay and watch Robin's post game press conference on the scoreboard, the ushers all direct you away from the field. I guess you have to sit in your exact seat to watch the press conference.

And who the hell wants to sit around and watch a press conference or an interview? Crank up the post win celebration music and have people leaving energized and happy-

Rocky Soprano
06-21-2012, 03:32 PM
I personally don't understand the White Sox fanbase sometimes. We complain that the team doesn't spend enough and as a result doesn't put good talent out on the field.

Then payroll goes up a lot over the last 5 to 7 years and as a result so do tickets, concessions, and parking and now our problem is that prices are too high.

We can't have it both ways with this ownership.

Sure, large market clubs like the Dodgers may have lower prices but, their ownership also draws more so they can afford to lower prices. The Sox draw less so ownership is trying to make up the difference by raising prices on those who do come...which may or may not be the best businessd practice. (IMO it's the latter)

Perhaps the reason the Dodgers draw more is because of the lower prices.
Hence why people are saying the Sox need to lower their prices!

MP#3
06-21-2012, 03:52 PM
For me it does not matter how good they play or how much they win, when you can't afford to go you can't afford to go and the White Sox have totally priced me out.

25 dollars to park is an absolute joke and one of the main reasons I have only gone to a handful of games this year. And as far as parking on the street and walking, how many people from the Burbs even know where the spots are? And why would a business make people go out of their way to fork over their cash?

I moved up to Waukegan a while ago and I was surprised by the amount of people I have seen wearing Sox hats and t-shirts. When I ask them if they have gone to any games this year, you know what I usually hear? "****, who can afford it?"

TomBradley72
06-21-2012, 03:55 PM
I was in STL last week and the souvenir cups were from last years NLDS.

Good for them- a souvenir cup from a post season series is a little different than a cup featuring the 1998 regular season schedule.

Noneck
06-21-2012, 04:05 PM
As I read the comments here, I realize the Sox know the reasons why people arent showing up. If they dont try to rectify some of the reasons people dont go to games, it means that they are still going to make money, one way or the other. This organization may be many things but one of them is not stupid.

Jason82807
06-21-2012, 04:12 PM
Just got an e-mail. That $14 dynamic deal for the Brewers series expires today at 4:30 (20 mins). They're killing a potentially huge walk up crowd.

shingo10
06-21-2012, 04:17 PM
I remember a series against KC in September of 2005 in which the Sox were in first place but had been struggling and the turnout was not good at all. If it was like that in 2005, then of course it is going to be worse when a team isn't as good as that team and prices are even higher.

The moral of the story is that the Sox product has to be better in order for people to pay for it.

And as many have stated it starts with the team on the field but then those who attend a game have to be left wanting more as well. That's where food, parking, and all that comes in.

Irishsox1
06-21-2012, 04:23 PM
Going to watch pro sports became a ripoff in the late 1990's and as long as people to continue to pay, they will move up the prices because that's what the market dictates. If someone doesn't want to pay $70 for a ticket then don't go. Once the Bears tickets started getting too high, I just stopped going. Needless to say, someone was gladly willing to pay the higher price.

LITTLE NELL
06-21-2012, 04:28 PM
I remember a series against KC in September of 2005 in which the Sox were in first place but had been struggling and the turnout was not good at all. If it was like that in 2005, then of course it is going to be worse when a team isn't as good as that team and prices are even higher.

The moral of the story is that the Sox product has to be better in order for people to pay for it.

And as many have stated it starts with the team on the field but then those who attend a game have to be left wanting more as well. That's where food, parking, and all that comes in.

On Sept 6, 2005 the Sox had a 9.5 game lead and KC was in town for a 3 game series, the games drew 14,571, 18,531 and 17,701. Not good for a team with a 9.5 game lead.
Oh, I forgot, the kids were back in school.

roylestillman
06-21-2012, 04:33 PM
Just got an e-mail. That $14 dynamic deal for the Brewers series expires today at 4:30 (20 mins). They're killing a potentially huge walk up crowd.

I just sent a reply to this email suggesting the same thing. Got a reply thanking me for my interest in Major League Baseball, but that my reply was sent to a mailbox that is not monitored. ....But they do want to hear from me!

TomBradley72
06-21-2012, 04:39 PM
Just got an e-mail. That $14 dynamic deal for the Brewers series expires today at 4:30 (20 mins). They're killing a potentially huge walk up crowd.

They are just ****ing idiots.

LITTLE NELL
06-21-2012, 04:41 PM
They are just ****ing idiots.

Does anyone at 333 West 35th St. have a clue?

kittle42
06-21-2012, 04:42 PM
They are just ****ing idiots.

I seriously don't understand what they gain from people having tickets 1-3 days early. Just make it the damn price for the whole series!!!

Jason82807
06-21-2012, 04:47 PM
I seriously don't understand what they gain from people having tickets 1-3 days early. Just make it the damn price for the whole series!!!

People wouldn't mind buying early, but there's the $5.25 per ticket convenience fee, and a $3.50 per order processing fee.

JB98
06-21-2012, 04:53 PM
Going to watch pro sports became a ripoff in the late 1990's and as long as people to continue to pay, they will move up the prices because that's what the market dictates. If someone doesn't want to pay $70 for a ticket then don't go. Once the Bears tickets started getting too high, I just stopped going. Needless to say, someone was gladly willing to pay the higher price.

People don't want to pay $70 for a ticket. And they aren't.

Sox fans are sending a message to Sox management loud and clear that their product is overpriced. Sox management refuses to hear that message. Their response is basically, "If you don't like it, don't come." So, people don't come. To quote our GM, "I can't spend a dollar when I only have 50 cents."

You can't compare a baseball team to an NFL team. There are 81 home games in a baseball season. There are 8 home games in a football season. The supply and demand there is completely different.

guillensdisciple
06-21-2012, 05:02 PM
My response to the if you don't like it don't come thing is a simple go **** yourself.


What makes this funny to me is you know they read these forums, they read what we write. They know why we don't come. So it's either they're ****ing idiots and believe we'll all become rich or they're *******s who would rather drown with a sinking ship than fix it and make it work.

Whatever, your move. I wanted to go to six games this year. I will go to three because of the prices you charge.

kittle42
06-21-2012, 05:06 PM
I've been to 5 games already and cost isn't *that* much of a factor for me as to whether I'll attend or not as long as the secondary market stays cheap.

However, their attitude and refusal to shift really rubs me the wrong way and will likely decrease the total number of games I attend this season.

Crooked Number
06-21-2012, 05:10 PM
I've been to 5 games already and cost isn't *that* much of a factor for me as to whether I'll attend or not as long as the secondary market stays cheap.

However, their attitude and refusal to shift really rubs me the wrong way and will likely decrease the total number of games I attend this season.

I've gone to 6 six games this season, and I've only paid full price for two. I bolded your statement, because this is how I am starting to feel. I am usually immune to the whole attendance situation, but I believe this has come to a head. There must be some give from the Sox. They need to start changing some things. The way they handle things rubs me the wrong way also, and it's getting really hard to ignore nowadays.

Harry Potter
06-21-2012, 05:12 PM
Having been to the series in St. Louis and Los Angeles last week, I was amazed at how reasonably priced parking was around the stadium. As ChiSoxGirl mentioned, there was $5 parking available in garages a few blocks away from Busch and even the lots immediately next to the stadium were only $15. Then you have Los Angeles where one of the first acts the new ownership group reduces parking at Dodger Stadium from $15 to $10.

Another thing that was noticeable in both stadiums is how friendly and courteous the workers/support staff were at both Busch Stadium and Dodger Stadium. All of the workers we came across were very friendly, asking if we had any questions, needed help, etc. Something you will NEVER see at US Cellular Field.

One difference was that a good percentage of the workers at Busch Stadium and Dodger Stadium were older folk, perhaps retirees who really cared about their jobs. Not the snotty, youth that fill out the red guest services shirts at The Cell.

LITTLE NELL
06-21-2012, 05:26 PM
Having been to the series in St. Louis and Los Angeles last week, I was amazed at how reasonably priced parking was around the stadium. As ChiSoxGirl mentioned, there was $5 parking available in garages a few blocks away from Busch and even the lots immediately next to the stadium were only $15. Then you have Los Angeles where one of the first acts the new ownership group reduces parking at Dodger Stadium from $15 to $10.

Another thing that was noticeable in both stadiums is how friendly and courteous the workers/support staff were at both Busch Stadium and Dodger Stadium. All of the workers we came across were very friendly, asking if we had any questions, needed help, etc. Something you will NEVER see at US Cellular Field.

One difference was that a good percentage of the workers at Busch Stadium and Dodger Stadium were older folk, perhaps retirees who really cared about their jobs. Not the snotty, youth that fill out the red guest services shirts at The Cell.

Same thing at the Trop in St. Pete.

Dan H
06-21-2012, 05:27 PM
Does anyone at 333 West 35th St. have a clue?


No, they don't and never will. The trouble with the White Sox is that they have run the organization from the top down from day one and chased fans away in the process. And many times they are chasing loyal fans away.

We are not Cub fans. Those fans tolerate ticket scalping and cement falling down from their stadium.

I don't blame the team when know-nothings tell them how to run their club and they don't listen. But when fans talk about their ball park experience, the team should listen. But they don't.

kittle42
06-21-2012, 05:34 PM
I don't blame the team when know-nothings tell them how to run their club and they don't listen. But when fans talk about their ball park experience, the team should listen. But they don't.

Amen.

LITTLE NELL
06-21-2012, 06:29 PM
Well, I don't want to give anything away because I know plenty of people who rely on those spots for the cheap parking, but I can assure you they're there, not very hard to find, and not much of a longer walk than the 35th Street Green Line stop.

Also, St. Louis is a ****ing ****hole. They could give me $25 and I wouldn't bother going there. That'd be like saying, "oh, there's a lot of great parking at the baseball stadium in Libya!"

Can't be all that bad down there, they hate the Cubs, don't they?

ChicagoG19
06-21-2012, 08:13 PM
Which is it? "that close," as you mentioned earlier, or "not much of a longer walk," as you claim now?

I'm with JB on this. I've been driving and parking for free there longer than most posters on this board have been alive, but it's harder and harder, or the residential parking perimeter is wider and wider, every year.

To be clear, I don't really have a problem with that. But if the Sox want to take the burden off residents (and they should), then I'm not sure why they don't lower parking prices. Why are Sox parking prices the fourth highest in the majors?

Telling fans to find their own cheap parking is a bit like telling them to find their own cheap tickets. I do find my own on Stubhub and through various codes, but why don't the Sox make it easier for fans in general to do so? Neither the ballpark nor the parking lots are overflowing, are they?



St. Louis isn't my cup of tea, either. Yet, somehow, the Cardinals have finished in the top eight, and usually in the top four, in MLB attendance every year since 2001 (the earliest year I looked). I may be wrong, but I doubt a team in Libya would do that.


I went to the Sox/Cards game in St. Louis. Bleacher tickets were $20 and parking was $5. The park had 40K people on a Thursday night. Sox can't sell out games against the Cubs. The pricing at the Cell sucks and I have gone to far fewer games this year because of it. I lived in Peoria (3 hours from Chicago) the last three years and made it to 20-25 games a year. Now I am back on the Southside and I doubt I will make it to that many.

Brian26
06-21-2012, 09:02 PM
Another thing that was noticeable in both stadiums is how friendly and courteous the workers/support staff were at both Busch Stadium and Dodger Stadium. All of the workers we came across were very friendly, asking if we had any questions, needed help, etc. Something you will NEVER see at US Cellular Field.

One difference was that a good percentage of the workers at Busch Stadium and Dodger Stadium were older folk, perhaps retirees who really cared about their jobs. Not the snotty, youth that fill out the red guest services shirts at The Cell.

Gospel.

I've mentioned this here before, but I went to a couple of games at Comerica in 2005. The ushers/concessionaires in DETROIT (frickin' Detroit) were a hundred times better than the kids working at the Cell. The Tigers' crew were generally older gentlemen and ladies. An usher actually came down and wiped my seat off for me before I sat down. Just unbelievable.

I don't even want to get into the Sportservice employees and Sox "security" staff. It's beyond awful.

I remember on Opening Day at the Cell, I went up early to watch Batting Practice in Section 533 where my seat was. The young lady made me get my ticket out and prove to her that I actually was sitting there. In the Upper Deck. An hour and a half before the start of the game. :thumbsup: You know, in case I was going to pull a Ligue on Roger Bossard from row 17 of Section 533 and hour and a half before the game.

Brian26
06-21-2012, 09:06 PM
This needs to be sent to Brooks....Dodgers have the best record in baseball,and they are selling at this price? Maybe Hawk should also be made aware of the price disparity.

Brooks is so in over his head right now, its not even funny. The guy was handed a silver platter in 2004 when he took over, and he's done nothing but piss everything away. He's been on cruise control since the World Series. His first blunder was letting TwoxFour go on the marketing side.

I wouldn't waste another ounce of energy emailing him.

russ99
06-21-2012, 09:21 PM
I have bought tickets to some of the more expensive games well in advance and full price, and to me if the team plays well and i have fun it's worth it. This way I payed for my summer Sox fun in February so it's not so painful now.

But I scaled back my annual advance purchases due to the payroll cut and how the Sox handled 's FA. While I'd love to go more impulse buy games, but who knows what you may pay from day to day? That Brewers deal was interesting, but I have vacation in a week. They may have hooked me for tomorrow night's game by 5pm...

But what irks me the most is that the fans are always being called out, as if we don't have a choice on how our dwindling disposable entertainment dollars are spent.

tebman
06-21-2012, 09:37 PM
Brooks is so in over his head right now, its not even funny. The guy was handed a silver platter in 2004 when he took over, and he's done nothing but piss everything away. He's been on cruise control since the World Series. His first blunder was letting TwoxFour go on the marketing side.

I wouldn't waste another ounce of energy emailing him.

I have, though not on this topic. I was concerned about the low-key scoreboard fireworks on opening day. I wrote, saying that I had read on WSI that there had been a complaint made to the alderman about the noise and wanted to get the straight story from him.

He replied in a timely way to assure me that noisier fireworks were coming in the next homestand. But he also made a point to tell me that things I read in "blogs" should not be taken seriously.

I thought about that response when I read this thread. I have no doubt that somebody from the Sox office reads WSI and uses it as one of several data points. But as a "blog," WSI is not considered a reliable barometer of the fan base.

We were at a game a few weeks ago and were approached by a red-shirted young woman asking if we'd participate in a fan survey. The questions were multiple choice and had to do with what would get us to attend more games. I replied honestly and said an exciting, competitive team is the main factor but also that cost was a major concern. We each got $1.00 in Comiskey Cash for our time.

This was not a focus group where we could provide in-depth responses, but a cue-carded, multiple-choice survey that was clearly drawn up by professional pollsters. That's the kind of data the front office relies on, not the stories of unwashed boors like us who have collective generations of Sox history behind us.

If Brooks and his staff want to know what's really on folks' minds, they should wander through the stands, look for somebody with a scorecard or somebody else concentrating on the game, and talk to those people. That's where they'll get real insight. They're not going to get useful feedback from the luxury suites or from shrink-wrapped survey questions.

WhiteSox5187
06-21-2012, 09:44 PM
I have, though not on this topic. I was concerned about the low-key scoreboard fireworks on opening day. I wrote, saying that I had read on WSI that there had been a complaint made to the alderman about the noise and wanted to get the straight story from him.

He replied in a timely way to assure me that noisier fireworks were coming in the next homestand. But he also made a point to tell me that things I read in "blogs" should not be taken seriously.

I thought about that response when I read this thread. I have no doubt that somebody from the Sox office reads WSI and uses it as one of several data points. But as a "blog," WSI is not considered a reliable barometer of the fan base.

We were at a game a few weeks ago and were approached by a red-shirted young woman asking if we'd participate in a fan survey. The questions were multiple choice and had to do with what would get us to attend more games. I replied honestly and said an exciting, competitive team is the main factor but also that cost was a major concern. We each got $1.00 in Comiskey Cash for our time.

This was not a focus group where we could provide in-depth responses, but a cue-carded, multiple-choice survey that was clearly drawn up by professional pollsters. That's the kind of data the front office relies on, not the stories of unwashed boors like us who have collective generations of Sox history behind us.

If Brooks and his staff want to know what's really on folks' minds, they should wander through the stands, look for somebody with a scorecard or somebody else concentrating on the game, and talk to those people. That's where they'll get real insight. They're not going to get useful feedback from the luxury suites or from shrink-wrapped survey questions.

The White Sox have never really been interested in the fans who keep score or any of the other die hards. They have been desperate to get the luxury suite people to come to Sox games pretty much ever since Jerry took over. The whole sort of "here it is, take it or leave it" attitude predates Brooks by about 23 years.

Brian26
06-21-2012, 09:57 PM
He replied in a timely way to assure me that noisier fireworks were coming in the next homestand. But he also made a point to tell me that things I read in "blogs" should not be taken seriously.

The pomposity of Boyer continues to amaze me.

Not as good as the quote I read earlier today though:

"I wasn't comfortable taking the prices (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-06-20/sports/ct-spt-0621-haugh-city-series-chicago--20120621_1_sox-fans-white-sox-ken-williams#) for this series lower,'' Boyer said.

DSpivack
06-21-2012, 10:06 PM
The pomposity of Boyer continues to amaze me.

Not as good as the quote I read earlier today though:

I wasn't comfortable taking the prices (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-06-20/sports/ct-spt-0621-haugh-city-series-chicago--20120621_1_sox-fans-white-sox-ken-williams#) for this series lower,'' Boyer said.

I get that they're run like a business, that they don't want to lose money, that they want to run in the black every year.

High prices despite low demand? That kind of business move boggles my mind.

LongLiveFisk
06-21-2012, 10:28 PM
I get that they're run like a business, that they don't want to lose money, that they want to run in the black every year.

High prices despite low demand? That kind of business move boggles my mind.

Yes, as mentioned here it's all about supply and demand. When the demand for your product is not there, you cannot charge "demand" prices. It's just that simple.

SI1020
06-21-2012, 10:37 PM
[/I][/B]

Same thing at the Trop in St. Pete. The nicest service people at any ball park that I've ever been to.

DoItForDanPasqua
06-21-2012, 10:52 PM
Agreed, the non-sense about the violence is well, non-sense. If you're coming from La Grange or whatever suburb he mentioned it's not likely you're going to be driving through a place like Englewood or some high crime area on your way to or from the park.

I didn't get that either. You are basically on the expressway the entire way. I'm not a fan of the suburbs myself, but he makes people that live there seem completely out of touch. I don't think that is really a factor.

Perhaps Brooks should realize that all their scoreboard races, dancing on the dugout, blaring music between pitches, and the Chevy Pride Crew is a nuisance and he doesn't need to turn baseball games into the NBA. Or that charging $90 for bleacher seats to see a team that took steps towards rebuilding is not going to get people into the park.

Parrothead
06-21-2012, 10:53 PM
Brooks is so in over his head right now, its not even funny. The guy was handed a silver platter in 2004 when he took over, and he's done nothing but piss everything away. He's been on cruise control since the World Series. His first blunder was letting TwoxFour go on the marketing side.

I wouldn't waste another ounce of energy emailing him.

There was an issue with TwoxFour. Can't say what it was but I would have fired them too.

fram40
06-21-2012, 11:07 PM
I didn't get that either. You are basically on the expressway the entire way. I'm not a fan of the suburbs myself, but he makes people that live there seem completely out of touch. I don't think that is really a factor.

Perhaps Brooks should realize that all their scoreboard races, dancing on the dugout, blaring music between pitches, and the Chevy Pride Crew is a nuisance and he doesn't need to turn baseball games into the NBA.

I dislike all the crap they do in between innings. If I ever win the lottery, I am going to sponsor the "Fram40 mid-Fourth Inning Quiet Time".

As someone who has detested ownership since the moment they bought the team, I understand the resentment expressed by so many fans in this (and similar threads). This ownership group - since the second they assumed control - has seemingly gone out of their way to antagonize and push away Sox fans. As I read this thread, it appears they have succeeded. Now they can reap what they have sown.

I live in the 'burbs, I tolerate horrific rush hour traffic after work to get to ten+ night games a year, I park on the street to save money, I quite often bring in food from outside to save on concessions, and, other than opening day, I do not select premium games. My 7 game package, which includes no Monday night value games, averaged 25 bucks per ticket.

FielderJones
06-21-2012, 11:28 PM
In 1977 I went to probably 20-25 games, I lost count. Every weekend the team was in town in June, July, August I went to Friday, Saturday, and Sunday games. Sometimes we would go mid-week as well. I was just out of college and making not much more than minimum wage. But the games were affordable. I could pop for $2 or whatever it was to sit in the outfield upper deck. We would park near the corner of Union and 35th.

Now, I live much more comfortably. But there's no way I would feel comfortable paying list price for 25 games worth of tickets and parking. The inflation rate of attending a Sox game has gone up much faster than average wages.

kittle42
06-21-2012, 11:40 PM
Congrats, Boyer - you have managed to bring in next to zero new/casual fans and alienate die hards.

I often get mad and say I'm not going to games because the team stinks. Never did I think I would honestly say I would go to fewer games because the White Sox organization infuriated me and others and completely lost touch with its fanbase. But that time has come. Going to several stadiums with far better experiences over the past three seasons - MIN, DET, PHI, STL, BOS, CIN, MIL, and yes, to an extent (at least the kindness of ushers and concession salespeople), Wrigley, has really opened my eyes more than when I would go to a new park maybe once every few seasons.

White Sox Baseball: Appreciate the Game

WhiteSox5187
06-21-2012, 11:51 PM
Congrats, Boyer - you have managed to bring in next to zero new/casual fans and alienate die hards.

I often get mad and say I'm not going to games because the team stinks. Never did I think I would honestly say I would go to fewer games because the White Sox organization infuriated me and others and completely lost touch with its fanbase. But that time has come. Going to several stadiums with far better experiences over the past three seasons - MIN, DET, PHI, STL, BOS, CIN, MIL, and yes, to an extent (at least the kindness of ushers and concession salespeople), Wrigley, has really opened my eyes more than when I would go to a new park maybe once every few seasons.

White Sox Baseball: Appreciate the Game

I really hope that someone from the Sox reads this, I doubt that they would care sadly but I do not know if I have ever seen members of this board so angry at the White Sox when it is not related to the product on the field. The White Sox have some serious issues that need to be addressed ESPECIALLY if their mediocre play continues. You can afford to piss off your fan base if your'e consistently winning but not if you're consistently mediocre.

DSpivack
06-21-2012, 11:53 PM
I didn't get that either. You are basically on the expressway the entire way. I'm not a fan of the suburbs myself, but he makes people that live there seem completely out of touch. I don't think that is really a factor.

Perhaps Brooks should realize that all their scoreboard races, dancing on the dugout, blaring music between pitches, and the Chevy Pride Crew is a nuisance and he doesn't need to turn baseball games into the NBA. Or that charging $90 for bleacher seats to see a team that took steps towards rebuilding is not going to get people into the park.

I dislike all the crap they do in between innings. If I ever win the lottery, I am going to sponsor the "Fram40 mid-Fourth Inning Quiet Time".

As someone who has detested ownership since the moment they bought the team, I understand the resentment expressed by so many fans in this (and similar threads). This ownership group - since the second they assumed control - has seemingly gone out of their way to antagonize and push away Sox fans. As I read this thread, it appears they have succeeded. Now they can reap what they have sown.

I live in the 'burbs, I tolerate horrific rush hour traffic after work to get to ten+ night games a year, I park on the street to save money, I quite often bring in food from outside to save on concessions, and, other than opening day, I do not select premium games. My 7 game package, which includes no Monday night value games, averaged 25 bucks per ticket.

I don't like the crap between innings, either, but it won't make me not go to a game, and I doubt it has that kind of effect for casual fans, either. Looking around baseball, every team has gimmicks like that, I don't see the White Sox as unique in that regard. Thus, I don't see how that explains the poor attendance for the White Sox.

I think it's because of the idiotic pricing plan that completely ignores the demand part of dynamic pricing (dynamic means forever changing; if a price can't really go down or approach anything close to market value, I see that as more static than dynamic, if you will). The combination of 4th highest ticket prices and 4th lowest attendance just seems like nothing more to me than utter stupidity.

Noneck
06-22-2012, 01:06 AM
I dont think baseball is meant to be a rich mans game. When you have 81 games a year and are competing with summer activities I dont see how they can price tickets the way they do. Back in the day getting 1m through the gates was a decent year. That was also when not many games were on a 19in b&w TV, Not all the games today on a 50inch HD TV. It was also the time when you could get good seats for all games including doubleheaders for $1.75. Food was brought into the park so the only concession money spent was maybe Dad would have a beer or two and if the kids were good they would get a malt cup. Parking was of course free on the street close by.

Now because of players salaries, owners expect at least 2m a year at huge ticket prices. Many seats in the new parks are crap, all upper deck seats now a days are ridiculously bad which is a result of accommodating the rich and their sky boxes. Parks now prohibit bringing food into the park and they charge crazy prices for what they sell. Parking is prohibited on the street and they charge as much as a downtown garage. Baseball still competes with all other summer activities but they now expect double the attendance of the days of yore at inflated ticket prices.

I think the chickens are finally coming to roost and they are crowing 1st here and it will soon spread throughout.

DSpivack
06-22-2012, 01:35 AM
I dont think baseball is meant to be a rich mans game. When you have 81 games a year and are competing with summer activities I dont see how they can price tickets the way they do. Back in the day getting 1m through the gates was a decent year. That was also when not many games were on a 19in b&w TV, Not all the games today on a 50inch HD TV. It was also the time when you could get good seats for all games including doubleheaders for $1.75. Food was brought into the park so the only concession money spent was maybe Dad would have a beer or two and if the kids were good they would get a malt cup. Parking was of course free on the street close by.

Now because of players salaries, owners expect at least 2m a year at huge ticket prices. Many seats in the new parks are crap, all upper deck seats now a days are ridiculously bad which is a result of accommodating the rich and their sky boxes. Parks now prohibit bringing food into the park and they charge crazy prices for what they sell. Parking is prohibited on the street and they charge as much as a downtown garage. Baseball still competes with all other summer activities but they now expect double the attendance of the days of yore at inflated ticket prices.

I think the chickens are finally coming to roost and they are crowing 1st here and it will soon spread throughout.

What parks do that?

I don't view it in the way you do. Other teams have high ticket prices as they have correspondingly high demand; the Sox have low demand (4th lowest in MLB) and high prices (4th highest in MLB). That seems like basic economics to me. What the White Sox are currently doing with dynamic pricing is quite different from other teams, and it seems like an idiotic and unsustainable way to run a business.

LITTLE NELL
06-22-2012, 05:53 AM
I dont think baseball is meant to be a rich mans game. When you have 81 games a year and are competing with summer activities I dont see how they can price tickets the way they do. Back in the day getting 1m through the gates was a decent year. That was also when not many games were on a 19in b&w TV, Not all the games today on a 50inch HD TV. It was also the time when you could get good seats for all games including doubleheaders for $1.75. Food was brought into the park so the only concession money spent was maybe Dad would have a beer or two and if the kids were good they would get a malt cup. Parking was of course free on the street close by.

Now because of players salaries, owners expect at least 2m a year at huge ticket prices. Many seats in the new parks are crap, all upper deck seats now a days are ridiculously bad which is a result of accommodating the rich and their sky boxes. Parks now prohibit bringing food into the park and they charge crazy prices for what they sell. Parking is prohibited on the street and they charge as much as a downtown garage. Baseball still competes with all other summer activities but they now expect double the attendance of the days of yore at inflated ticket prices.

I think the chickens are finally coming to roost and they are crowing 1st here and it will soon spread throughout.

Excellent take on the situation, especially the last sentence. There will be a point that fans will say ''Thats it, I'm not going to pay that kind of money to see a game'' and like you said it's happening at USCF right now.

Thome25
06-22-2012, 05:54 AM
Personally, the "I'm not going to the park unless my team wins" attitude is not for me.

You're talking about a sport where even the best teams lose almost half the time (Teams that win 92 games lose approx 43% of their games). IMO To expect your team to win everytime you attend is unrealistic when rooting for an MLB team.

I go to root for my team, help give them that push to play harder, and if they played the game right but still lost, chances are I still had fun regardless of the outcome.

IDK maybe I'm wrong. Just my opinion. Maybe I'm a White Sox fan with a Cub fan mentality.

soltrain21
06-22-2012, 06:13 AM
IDK maybe I'm wrong. Just my opinion. Maybe I'm a White Sox fan with a Cub fan mentality.

You go because of the bar scene or you are a tourist from Ohio?

Thome25
06-22-2012, 06:17 AM
You go because of the bar scene or you are a tourist from Ohio?


Nope neither.

C-Dawg
06-22-2012, 06:56 AM
We were at a game a few weeks ago and were approached by a red-shirted young woman asking if we'd participate in a fan survey... We each got $1.00 in Comiskey Cash for our time.



Wow, I didn't know they were still doing those! I did a bunch of those surveys early in Brooks' tenure but hadn't seen them in several years.

TomBradley72
06-22-2012, 07:32 AM
Brooks is so in over his head right now, its not even funny. The guy was handed a silver platter in 2004 when he took over, and he's done nothing but piss everything away. He's been on cruise control since the World Series. His first blunder was letting TwoxFour go on the marketing side.

I wouldn't waste another ounce of energy emailing him.

I sent Brooks a lenghthy email last night- using alot of the points that have been made in this thread.

To his credit- he responded in detail to every point I made late last night- extremely thorough response- I'll ask him if it's Ok to share with this board (I don't want to pull a "wikileaks" on him :cool:).

But I'll give the guy a lot of credit for responding so quickly and so thoroughly.

RealFan
06-22-2012, 07:48 AM
I sent Brooks a lenghthy email last night- using alot of the points that have been made in this thread.

To his credit- he responded in detail to every point I made late last night- extremely thorough response- I'll ask him if it's Ok to share with this board (I don't want to pull a "wikileaks" on him :cool:).

But I'll give the guy a lot of credit for responding so quickly and so thoroughly.

I was going to send him a note myself but I'll wait to see what you post so that I don't just send him something which is 90%+ the same as yours.

FoulTerritory
06-22-2012, 08:00 AM
Personally, the "I'm not going to the park unless my team wins" attitude is not for me.

You're talking about a sport where even the best teams lose almost half the time (Teams that win 92 games lose approx 43% of their games). IMO To expect your team to win everytime you attend is unrealistic when rooting for an MLB team.

I go to root for my team, help give them that push to play harder, and if they played the game right but still lost, chances are I still had fun regardless of the outcome.

IDK maybe I'm wrong. Just my opinion. Maybe I'm a White Sox fan with a Cub fan mentality.

In the past I've gone to many Sox games, win or lose (like many people on this board, I suspect). But at these ticket prices . . . I'm not going regularly unless they are regular world series contenders. Even then, sheer cost will reduce the volume of games I can attend.

Quentin08
06-22-2012, 08:04 AM
Back in 2004, Brooks' first year with the Sox, I sent him a letter (yep an actual letter :lol:) regarding low attendance at USCF, and a few days later I received a hand-written card from him addressing all my points. He's one of the nicest guys in the Sox organization and that's saying a lot. He's probably written thousands of letters/emails to fans about attendance over the past 8 years.

Dan H
06-22-2012, 08:42 AM
Back in 2004, Brooks' first year with the Sox, I sent him a letter (yep an actual letter :lol:) regarding low attendance at USCF, and a few days later I received a hand-written card from him addressing all my points. He's one of the nicest guys in the Sox organization and that's saying a lot. He's probably written thousands of letters/emails to fans about attendance over the past 8 years.

I have also recieved timely responses from Brooks Boyer and I think he made some real inroads when he assumed his job in 2004. For the most part, I think he is pretty decent and was a great change from Rob Gallas.

I think the problems the Sox are having are bigger than him even though he has done a good job in many ways. However, I don't know if he understands the nature of the problems.

Recently, I sent him a letter regarding my experience at SoxFest, (I had a booth) and also mentioned the Sox shouldn't sit by idly as the media bashes Sox fans. I didn't receive a response. I don't know what happened. Did he even see the letter? Regardless, I'd like to know what he thinks. Meanwhile, as I told Boyer, I barely read the sports pages and refuse to listen to sports talk radio. We White Sox fans have been ripped for as long as I can remember and I don't want to read it or hear it anymore. And that constant bashing is only making things worse.

Johnny Mostil
06-22-2012, 08:42 AM
Margalus raises some interesting points here (http://www.southsidesox.com/2012/6/22/3105232/the-biggest-problem-with-the-attendance-debate), including some which have been discussed on these boards before (Sox failing to make postseason in two consecutive seasons, making more money with smaller crowds). I thought particularly insightful his points that the Sox raising the attendance issue leads their own fans to complain about the product and that a second collection might work at church but not for a business.

Noneck
06-22-2012, 08:45 AM
What parks do that?



Dinner or lunch for a family was meant, not a peanut butter sandwich tucked into ones pocket. You do not remember but it was possible to bring in a picnic basket back in the day. There was even a picnic area below the left field stands.

Rocky Soprano
06-22-2012, 08:51 AM
There was an issue with TwoxFour. Can't say what it was but I would have fired them too.

This is the first I ever hear about an issue with them. If I recall correctly the Sox asked a few marketing companies to place a bid and invited TwoxFour to bid. TwoxFour was not happy that the Sox were doing this and decided to not even bid. Now you may have some insider info, but I never heard any negative about them.

hawkjt
06-22-2012, 09:29 AM
I sent Brooks a lenghthy email last night- using alot of the points that have been made in this thread.

To his credit- he responded in detail to every point I made late last night- extremely thorough response- I'll ask him if it's Ok to share with this board (I don't want to pull a "wikileaks" on him :cool:).

But I'll give the guy a lot of credit for responding so quickly and so thoroughly.


I hope you put this response in this thread. If Boyer has taken the time to respond in detail,then it is worth reading. The only way for either side to understand the situation from both sides is dialogue.
Good job.

DonnieDarko
06-22-2012, 09:44 AM
I hope you put this response in this thread. If Boyer has taken the time to respond in detail,then it is worth reading. The only way for either side to understand the situation from both sides is dialogue.
Good job.

This. I hope you can post the response. Can't wait.

Lip Man 1
06-22-2012, 10:44 AM
South Side Sox story was pretty good. He touched on a lot of points fans have been making for years.

I know frankly that it's astonishing that in over 100 seasons the Sox have never made the post season in consecutive years.

I could get it when there were only two teams going to the World Series but with expanded playoffs around since 1969, that's unbelieveable and a testimony to the franchise (and not in a good way...)

Lip

Jason82807
06-22-2012, 10:57 AM
Slightly OT, but when I was at the game on Tuesday, I went to the ticket window on the 100 level concourse to buy some of the $14 tickets for the Brewers series. She told me that that price was online only. I asked her if she wouldn't mind double-checking, and sure enough, I was able to buy tix to all 3 games without the fees.

I wonder how many potential ticket buyers didn't buy tickets simply because of a misunderstanding.

Rocky Soprano
06-22-2012, 11:04 AM
Slightly OT, but when I was at the game on Tuesday, I went to the ticket window on the 100 level concourse to buy some of the $14 tickets for the Brewers series. She told me that that price was online only. I asked her if she wouldn't mind double-checking, and sure enough, I was able to buy tix to all 3 games without the fees.

I wonder how many potential ticket buyers didn't buy tickets simply because of a misunderstanding.

Wow, there is no excuse for them not having accurate information.

kittle42
06-22-2012, 11:13 AM
Wow, there is no excuse for them not having accurate information.

Par for the course with the White Sox.

cheezheadsoxfan
06-22-2012, 11:42 AM
There are some excellent points about pricing and the Ozzie hangover but I'm up to here with the ****ing "violence" BS. Reading the Trib, you wonder why they even need cops near Wrigleyville it's such a little Mayberry! :angry:

Wedema
06-22-2012, 12:07 PM
Slightly OT, but when I was at the game on Tuesday, I went to the ticket window on the 100 level concourse to buy some of the $14 tickets for the Brewers series. She told me that that price was online only. I asked her if she wouldn't mind double-checking, and sure enough, I was able to buy tix to all 3 games without the fees.

I wonder how many potential ticket buyers didn't buy tickets simply because of a misunderstanding.


I have seen, and agree with, all of the complaints about the ushers, concession workers, and Sox "security", but the workers at the ticket windows are also very rude. Bob Espisoto (his name is on the window) on the 100 level window inside the park is one of the rudest and I avoid him at all times. If the other line is longer, I will wait so I don't have to deal with Bob.

chisoxfanatic
06-22-2012, 12:13 PM
Dinner or lunch for a family was meant, not a peanut butter sandwich tucked into ones pocket. You do not remember but it was possible to bring in a picnic basket back in the day. There was even a picnic area below the left field stands.
You do not need to tuck anything in your pocket. Picnic baskets are not needed to bring food into the ballpark. People use plastic shopping bags for that. I've brought in footlong subway sandwiches, large salads, yogurt, veggie trays, etc. I've seen tons of people bringing in complete meals as well. You can bring a complete meal in.

Wedema
06-22-2012, 12:16 PM
You do not need to tuck anything in your pocket. Picnic baskets are not needed to bring food into the ballpark. People use plastic shopping bags for that. I've brought in footlong subway sandwiches, large salads, yogurt, veggie trays, etc. I've seen tons of people bringing in complete meals as well. You can bring a complete meal in.


That is correct. You can bring in lunch, dinner, and dessert if you choose. And, you can bring in unopened 1 liters of water per person to wash it down.

Oblong
06-22-2012, 12:17 PM
You do not need to tuck anything in your pocket. Picnic baskets are not needed to bring food into the ballpark. People use plastic shopping bags for that. I've brought in footlong subway sandwiches, large salads, yogurt, veggie trays, etc. I've seen tons of people bringing in complete meals as well. You can bring a complete meal in.

Comerica Park allows you to bring in soft coolers for food. We bring in Subway, carryout from a deli, pizza... really the only restriction is you can only bring in non flavored water that is unopened. If you have kids they'll let you bring in juice boxes for them.

DSpivack
06-22-2012, 12:46 PM
Dinner or lunch for a family was meant, not a peanut butter sandwich tucked into ones pocket. You do not remember but it was possible to bring in a picnic basket back in the day. There was even a picnic area below the left field stands.

You can bring in whatever food you want into USCF. There is no change there. When I was in HS (~10 years ago) and then college, I would often attend games with a friend who kept kosher. He would usually bring in his own food, in a plastic bag, as there is no kosher food at USCF. Never had a problem or anyone say anything, as the team allows you to bring in whatever you want.

Comerica Park allows you to bring in soft coolers for food. We bring in Subway, carryout from a deli, pizza... really the only restriction is you can only bring in non flavored water that is unopened. If you have kids they'll let you bring in juice boxes for them.

Same thing at USCF.

South Side Sox story was pretty good. He touched on a lot of points fans have been making for years.

I know frankly that it's astonishing that in over 100 seasons the Sox have never made the post season in consecutive years.

I could get it when there were only two teams going to the World Series but with expanded playoffs around since 1969, that's unbelieveable and a testimony to the franchise (and not in a good way...)

Lip

Yeah, that was a good post, and the comments were interesting, as well. One person there mentioned the lease agreement the Sox have. Last season, paid attendance was below 1.9 million, and thus the Sox were able to avoid paying extra rent to the ISFA ($1.5 million base rent plus $3-7 per ticket sold beyond 1.9 million). As currently projected, the Sox will end up with 1.797 million in attendance this season (paid probably being a little less than that). Maybe the Sox are purposefully keeping down attendance in order to not pay that extra rent? That said, according to a linked Crain's story from last fall (http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20111026/NEWS02/111029790), that would only amount to about $500,000, so doing that would seem counterproductive.

XplodingScorbord
06-22-2012, 12:53 PM
Yeah, that was a good post, and the comments were interesting, as well. One person there mentioned the lease agreement the Sox have. Last season, paid attendance was below 1.9 million, and thus the Sox were able to avoid paying extra rent to the ISFA ($1.5 million base rent plus $3-7 per ticket sold beyond 1.9 million). As currently projected, the Sox will end up with 1.797 million in attendance this season (paid probably being a little less than that). Maybe the Sox are purposefully keeping down attendance in order to not pay that extra rent? That said, according to a linked Crain's story from last fall (http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20111026/NEWS02/111029790), that would only amount to about $500,000, so doing that would seem counterproductive.

One thing Jerry Reinsdorf is not is stupid.

JB98
06-22-2012, 12:56 PM
Gospel.

I've mentioned this here before, but I went to a couple of games at Comerica in 2005. The ushers/concessionaires in DETROIT (frickin' Detroit) were a hundred times better than the kids working at the Cell. The Tigers' crew were generally older gentlemen and ladies. An usher actually came down and wiped my seat off for me before I sat down. Just unbelievable.

I don't even want to get into the Sportservice employees and Sox "security" staff. It's beyond awful.

I remember on Opening Day at the Cell, I went up early to watch Batting Practice in Section 533 where my seat was. The young lady made me get my ticket out and prove to her that I actually was sitting there. In the Upper Deck. An hour and a half before the start of the game. :thumbsup: You know, in case I was going to pull a Ligue on Roger Bossard from row 17 of Section 533 and hour and a half before the game.

This made me LOL. I've got a 27-game weekend plan in Row 13 of 533. My buddy and I went to the Sunday afternoon game against the Astros a few weeks back. There was nobody else, and I mean *nobody* else sitting up there that day. I walked out through the tunnel there with my hands full of concessions, and I had a young lady demand to see my ticket. I had to put down all my food and drink and dig into my pockets to show my ticket. Moments later, my buddy made his way through the tunnel toward the seating area, also carrying his food, and he was also ordered to put everything down and show his ticket.

I mean, c'mon. I realize USCF staff has the right to check tickets whenever they want. But who the **** is trying to sneak into Sec. 533 on a day where the ballpark is two-thirds empty? And even if someone were trying to sneak into that section, so what? We were the only two guys in our row, and I think we counted something like 14 people in the whole section. We were just shaking our heads and laughing at the absurdity of it all. We were hassled for no reason.

doublem23
06-22-2012, 01:09 PM
Yeah, that was a good post, and the comments were interesting, as well. One person there mentioned the lease agreement the Sox have. Last season, paid attendance was below 1.9 million, and thus the Sox were able to avoid paying extra rent to the ISFA ($1.5 million base rent plus $3-7 per ticket sold beyond 1.9 million). As currently projected, the Sox will end up with 1.797 million in attendance this season (paid probably being a little less than that). Maybe the Sox are purposefully keeping down attendance in order to not pay that extra rent? That said, according to a linked Crain's story from last fall (http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20111026/NEWS02/111029790), that would only amount to about $500,000, so doing that would seem counterproductive.

One thing Jerry Reinsdorf is not is stupid.

The attendance/rent issue is always kind of an elephant in the room whenever you talk about Sox attendance problems. My general feeling has always been that the Sox price their seats so that most seasons they're able to keep it under the threshhold for rent, which is about 2 million for the season, right (That's just under 25 K per night, which is about what they're drawing)? I'd assume they then pray for good seasons like 2005 and 2006 when they would just hit the jackpot.

Jason82807
06-22-2012, 01:12 PM
The attendance/rent issue is always kind of an elephant in the room whenever you talk about Sox attendance problems. My general feeling has always been that the Sox price their seats so that most seasons they're able to keep it under the threshhold for rent, which is about 2 million for the season, right (That's just under 25 K per night, which is about what they're drawing)? I'd assume they then pray for good seasons like 2005 and 2006 when they would just hit the jackpot.

If each ticket sold only increases rent $3-7, then any ticket over $7 would be more than enough to offset the increased rent. What am I missing?

kittle42
06-22-2012, 01:18 PM
I mean, c'mon. I realize USCF staff has the right to check tickets whenever they want. But who the **** is trying to sneak into Sec. 533 on a day where the ballpark is two-thirds empty? And even if someone were trying to sneak into that section, so what? We were the only two guys in our row, and I think we counted something like 14 people in the whole section. We were just shaking our heads and laughing at the absurdity of it all. We were hassled for no reason.

I was at that game. Sat in the first row behind the Astros dugout, which sure made the end result more palatable. I had tickets down the line in the lower bowl. No one ever checked me.

doublem23
06-22-2012, 01:19 PM
If each ticket sold only increases rent $3-7, then any ticket over $7 would be more than enough to offset the increased rent. What am I missing?

Employees and utilities aren't free

kittle42
06-22-2012, 01:20 PM
Employees and utilities aren't free

Correct. Electric and water cost $150 each.

doublem23
06-22-2012, 01:24 PM
Correct. Electric and water cost $150 each.

Your monopoly's pathetic and that hotel on Baltic is a dump.

JB98
06-22-2012, 01:25 PM
I was at that game. Sat in the first row behind the Astros dugout, which sure made the end result more palatable. I had tickets down the line in the lower bowl. No one ever checked me.

Maybe I should have just gone downstairs.

DonnieDarko
06-22-2012, 01:29 PM
Maybe I should have just gone downstairs.

Yes. I go down to the lower level all the time. With the park not being even half-way full or just over half-way full, I NEVER get ticketed.

TomBradley72
06-22-2012, 01:31 PM
OK everyone- Brooks was OK with me sharing this with all of you- it's pretty much unedited- both my comments (in black) and his replies (in red).

I'm very impressed that he took the time to have this dialogue with me.

Our email exchange (Part 1- Part 2 to Follow)

Original Email from Yesterday & His Response:

Brooks,

I have emailed you several times over the years and you have always had the decency to respond which has always impressed me.

I have been a loyal fan since 1971- and I am also responsible for a $30M business- so I think I bring a balanced perspective as both a loyal fan as well as a business executive.

The White Sox are completely irritating and alienating your fan base- the most loyal segment of that fan base- the diehards.


Examples that you should be aware of (including comments from your most loyal customers)

Dynamic Pricing- please stop with all the "herky jerky" short term promos that expire in a few hours, etc. Just put out a clear promotion on tickets for upcoming games- and stick with it up until game time. Comment from your customers:
"Just got an e-mail. That $14 dynamic deal for the Brewers series expires today at 4:30 (20 mins). They're killing a potentially huge walk up crowd."
We are trying things as we want to see what works within the new dynamic pricing system. We created a dynamic deal for last weekend with outfield seats. Those must be the ones you are talking about because the $14 seats can be bought at the box office up until game time or until the supply is completely sold. We have set prices low so those that buy early, save the most. Prices will creep up as you get closer to game day. We do have baseline prices so for those that are more “traditional” in their thinking, that is the safest bet. And, if you get the ticket for lower, they should be happy. What is weird is that this is the first time I have heard someone say “don’t do promotions” on pricing unless they go until gametime. I would think the more promotions the better. We had a pretty good response to the outfield promotion we promoted via social media so I cannot promise we won’t do it again. It was a pretty good deal. I hope you are cool with me shooting your straight with the answers. You may not agree with them but they are honest and, hopefully, reasonable.
I just don’t see why this is irritating or alienating our diehard fans. You need to expound on that one for me. I would think these types of offers would be great because our die hards are the fans that know they are going to the game. Again, for clarity, the $14 tix promotion for this weekend does go all the way to the game.


Cost of Parking- This is really a hot button with your customers- and you look even worse compared to the other ballparks your customers have visited (Dodgers- $10, Brewers- $9, etc.) Comment from your fans: "25 dollars to park is an absolute joke and one of the main reasons I have only gone to a handful of games this year. And as far as parking on the street and walking, how many people from the Burbs even know where the spots are? And why would a business make people go out of their way to fork over their cash?

I moved up to Waukegan a while ago and I was surprised by the amount of people I have seen wearing Sox hats and t-shirts. When I ask them if they have gone to any games this year, you know what I usually hear? "****, who can afford it?"
Well, this one is hard to argue. We did get smacked with a heavy additional tax from the city this year that gets passed along to the customer. To my understanding, we are still (significantly) lower than Soldier Field, United Center and Wrigley as they all raised via the tax too. I was hoping the metra would help alleviate some of this issue for people coming from the south. Obviously, this does not help in Waukegan. The people who live north, the bigger issue is time due to traffic. I think people from the north would happily pay $25 to park if it did not take them 2 hours to get the ballpark. I think I should look to see if discounted parking really makes a difference on attendance. The issue is that our season ticket holders have paid a discounted rate for season long parking. Offering too many discounts is unfair to the people that have committed to us. That said, your point is a valid one and, if can truly help, it is worth looking into. As for being able “to afford it”, sometimes I think people use it as an excuse. If they really want to come to a game, we offer $7 tickets on Mondays (we even did a few $5 games where four tickets were less than a parking spot). $28 for four people. Now, if people say, “I cannot afford seats where I want to sit”, that is a different animal. I know you get it.


Ballpark Experience: Comment from your customers:
"Price aside, one of the problems as I see it, and I've been saying so for years, is this: When you DO go to a game, and it's a light crowd, or a day game, or the team stinks, or whatever, the place is staffed like they can't wait for the game to be over, and a lot of the people working there can't wait until we leave. Sitting in the LF corner and want a slice? Walk to the fan deck, the stand in left center is closed. Need a cold beer on the concourse in right center? Sorry, the permanent stand is closed, go chase a vendor or go to the fan deck. Need a chair so you can sit with your disabled friend or family member behind the last row of seats? Go 3 sections over to find an usher, maybe you'll get a metal chair younger than you before 3 innings pass. Parking? Well, you can park here if you have this pass, you cant park there without that pass, and cash only is over dere. Want to sit on the fan deck? Well, some nights it's open, some nights it's not. And I LIKE going to games. My point is, people that attend as a passing fancy probably don't come back after a typical in-park Sox experience."
This has been one of my frustrations as well. Closing stands early drives me crazy. That said, as much as we try, ask, beg, our service staff is not like Disney World. We have trained and we try but the reality is that many (not all – some buy in and are terrific representatives of the White Sox) of the people working are working their second jobs and, to your point, they want to be done. I promise you that we are not blind to it and it is something we strive to improve upon every year. What drives me even more nuts is when we go into extras and everything is shut down. I plan to share your thoughts with our head of Sportservice who runs those stands. Always better to hear from fans than from me.

"It's one of the least fan-friendly ballparks I've visited in the past few years (I've been to about 10 in that time) as far as a convenience/niceness/"I'd really like to come back here again" feeling."


Are you saying this or are you quoting someone that posted this?

General Feedback:

It's now almost July- and I'm still seeing Robin Ventura's grand slam in 1991 followed by Robin standing in an empty stadium in the offseason? Really? That's the best you can do with an exciting and likeable team in 1st place? (How about "Let Go White Sox" playing over highlights of Humer's perfect game? Viciedo's diving catch on Opening Day? Dunn on pace for 50+ HRs? etc.)
We create six spots per year (creating TV and placing TV is not inexpensive). Our first two spots revolved around Robin (one where he was walking into the ballpark and you could hear his thoughts, the other one you are referring to), third was a spot called Moments where a piano is playing and it pays homage to the fans, fourth was a guy who relates everything in his life to the White Sox. The fifth and sixth spots have yet to be released. One will launch July 1st and the last one August 1st. You will probably also start seeing at some point a spot about Chicago Sports Depot.

Jason82807
06-22-2012, 01:33 PM
Employees and utilities aren't free

No but the marginal cost goes down with each additional paid ticket. There should be plenty of room for the Sox to lower ticket prices for those corner sections and still cover their expenses.

Otherwise, the Sox and ISFA need to renegotiate a lease that is mutually beneficial.

TomBradley72
06-22-2012, 01:33 PM
Our email exchange (Part 2- Part 3 to Follow)


The pricing is horrible- the corners of the 100 bowl might as well have tarps over the seats- it's just horrible- stop with the bull**** promos that expire at 2pm etc.- clean up and stabilize your pricing for your fans- be aggressive- get people in the seats- especially the 100 level that shows up on TV and highlights- all of these images of an empty stadium are killing you."
I don’t like the empty seats more than you don’t like the empty seats. You have run a successful business and at some point you probably have felt the pain. That said, you have probably never given away your product either only to piss off your loyal customers. There is a fine balance there. Faking demand will only condition everyone involved to wait for the handout. Ask the Detroit Pistons how that has treated their business over the years.
Adjust the stadium experience a little- fire up "Sweet Home Chicago" after a win- not the dead silence followed by a player being interviewed in an empty stadium as people leave- get a feeling of celebration and fun going after each win.
Were you here yesterday? That is exactly what happened. After about two/three minutes, we went to the Beckham interview. People like hearing from the star of the game.

It's a real shame- you have a very likeable team with a great, respected new manager- and very little competition from the Cubs, Bulls or Hawks- and a fan base that is ready to come out to support your team. But that fan base feels manipulated and unappreciated- and in a rough economy- cannot afford to pay the prices you are asking. And if your most loyal customers will not pay those prices- you will not attract new ones either.

Is it not fair to say that we have offered some great pricing options? $5? $7? $14? Bleachers at $17? I am not trying to fight back, just stating the reality. What is your suggestion? And, when suggesting what you want, ask yourself the question: “if I held season tickets, would I be pissed off if the team offered those prices on a regular basis?”

But there is very little "good feeling" about what should be a pleasant surprise of a team this season- just games or highlights on TV of a stadium filled with empty seats and fans who when inspired to go to a game run into a wall of overpriced tickets/fees and parking or manipulative promotions that expire within hours, etc.2012 is turning into a very big missed opportunity for the White Sox- and you and your organization are running out of time to turn things around.

I love the White Sox and have attended 5 games already this season- and will be at Dick Allen Day on Sunday- but to be honest- I make a very good income- and even I've just about had it. So when a diehard fan who has not realy been impacted by the economy has had it- you can imagine how the less fanatical, less financially secure members of your fan base are feeling.

Steve, as always, I appreciate you taking the time to give me your thoughts. I always feel if fans take the time to convey their thoughts in a productive, respectful manner, I have a responsibility to return my honest thoughts. As you could imagine, sometimes fans go a bit overboard with their opinions of the White Sox or me that are beyond the need to respond. You probably see them on message boards. With you, I hope you are cool with my honest dialogue. Even if you do not agree, hopefully you see my responses as somewhat reasonable. I feel like you understand that there are other things that need to be taken into consideration when making decisions that affect the fan base and, yes, even though the fan base does not want to hear it, some decisions need to be made to maximize revenue to put the best possible product out on the field. I know it would be worse if our team was not performing to the level they are performing and, we need to support the payroll.

Again, I appreciate the thoughts. Have a good evening. I hope to meet you in the concourse this season so I can shake your hand and thank you for your support of the White Sox.

Have a great evening, I have to get home to the kids.

Brooks

TomBradley72
06-22-2012, 01:38 PM
Part 3- email exchange today-


Thank you so much for taking the time to reply- rather than commenting on your comments in the orginal email I'm responding via bullett points below:

Dynamic Pricing- My perception that the root cause of any "backlash" on dynamic pricing is that their could be a general misunderstanding of how the overall process works (maybe more with the older fans who are not as tech savvy or into social media? Chicago can be a pretty parochial market- some technology based approaches that would be second nature in a market like San Francisco (when I lived there- the Giants were doing some of the things you're doing- and it was fine). There is a specific perception that the Brewers promo expired yesterday- I'm not sure what is driving that confusion.
We have to continue to educate on dynamic pricing. My sense is that the term “dynamic pricing” has been cast in a negative light when it should be considered a fan amenity. Changing or adding some new things is always a challenge and there are growing pains. We will continue to do our best to communicate how dynamic pricing makes the games affordable and, on the flip side, gives the fan an opportunity to sit where they want to sit, if that is their ultimate desire. Again, that said, that DOES NOT mean you will find a 15th row seat on the dugout for $25. As I stated, we are also learning the best practices/prices to maximize our attendance while not alienating our best customers, our season ticket holders. I don’t believe that dropping prices at the 11th hour is the best way to run this business so I would not look for something like that to be put out there.

Parking- The tax issue is one I was not aware of- so that may be an issue of "educating" the customers, but I would disagree that anyone will "happily" pay $25 for parking- the comparison to the Bears/Cubs/UC are a little off when it comes to benchmarking- your customers are comparing your parking rates to those of other major league teams, and while someone may go to 1-2 Bears or UC events in a year- I think a baseball fan is taking into account 5-10 visits/year, and frankly many fans are already priced out of personally attending those events at Soldier Field or the UC. Only you know the financial impact- but if you came out and dropped parking to < $20 (even if only specific lots, or weekdays only, etc.)- it would send a very strong and positive signal to your customers
Fair points and good ideas. Thank you. Something worth us trying and throwing some ideas around.

Ballpark Experience- Sounds like your hands are tied on this one. I can tell you from personal experience- that on the few occasions when I've attended a game at another major league ballpark (Miller Park, Comerica, Progressive Field, etc.) within a day or two of attending a game The Cell- it is an absolute "jolting" experience on the contrast (not in a good way) between the other parks and The Cell. I've been lucky enough to experience >20 MLB ballparks and the White Sox experience is by far the lowest quality (Rogers Centre about 2 years ago was close). The quote in my original email was not from me personally-but it could have been.
At some point, I would like to have a conversation about this if you are open to it. We have had people from all over baseball come in to see and tour our “experience”. We constantly get high ranks from MLB and our surveys are very positive. I would like to understand where this comes from in your point of view and probably not easy to do via email. Let me know, if you are open to it.

TV Commercials- I loved the "Moments" spot- tapped into my pride of the team and our fans and our traditions. From my experience in business- everyone is an amature marketer- so please take this for what it's worth- but I would suggest a way to communicate a sense of energy and fun combined with the unique culture and tradition of the White Sox. Use music like "Na Na" playing over home run highlights, "Let's Go Go Go White Sox" over highlights of Sox players hustling, sliding into home, fans cheering, there are also some very interesting songs specifically about the White Sox going back all the way to the 40's. Maybe consider a contest asking local musicians/bands to record "cover versions" of these songs- and then use in your marketing? (gospel singers doing Na Na? blues musicians playing "Let's Go Go White Sox"? Dennis Deyoung?).
There are rights issues with the music but I see where you are trying to go. One thing you have to ask yourself: what you suggest will hit right to the heart of our core fans. They will all get it. But, will it motivate the mom in Naperville to bring her family to a game? Hopefully, when you look at all of our spots, some cut to the core and some are focused on other segments that will hopefully drive the same behavior, buying tickets to come see the team play.

Post Game- I was not there on Wednesday- I'm glad to hear Sweet Home Chicago is back- I guess you have survey data that says people want to watch an interview after a game- my impression is that its like turning the lights on at a bar and turning the juke box off- it stops the celebration and good feeling in it's tracks- but maybe that's just my personal bias.
Sometimes the DJ will go with the closer music too depending on how we won because that is more of an “up” song (clap to it, bang your head to it, whatever floats your boat). I always like Sweet Home Chicago too but I get it if the DJ wants to try some different things.

Pricing vs. Loyal Customers- You're right this is a balancing act- and I actually reviewed this specifically with my leadership team last night. BUT, I've been through a few cycles of "market changes" at different companies- and at some point (and we are doing this right now)- we have shifted to a "price to win" strategy and to send a signal to our customers that we are "easy to do business with" and flexible/hungry to do business with them. Without exception- this has always helped my businesses drive top line growth, market share gains- and while it led to some other adjustments we needed to make in our business (take cost out, adjust pricing/incentives a bit for our current/loyal customers)- we have never regretted changing our approach and if anything, as we debriefed- should have done it sooner. The 2012 schedule is not your friend this year- with only 3 home games between July 9th and August 2nd- and only 18 home dates between July 9th and Labor Day- so the window is closing on having any impact for this season.
Good to see you get it. The life’s blood of every organization is its season ticket base. They, like you, are typically paying attention to every move. The nice part is that we now have a tool with dynamic pricing that allows us to be aggressive and take some chances without alienating our STH base. Honestly, it is something we are taking a really close look at. Most often, I will error on the side of the season ticket holders.

TomBradley72
06-22-2012, 01:40 PM
Part 4- End of Exchange

Concerns About Season Ticket Holders- I understand this a very delicate balancing act. And maybe there is a way to make the adjustments necessary for 2013 to allow you to serve both your season ticket holders as well as expanding overall attendance. Overall- the #1 issue is all of those 100 level empty seats showing up on TV and sending a poor signal about the White Sox. Have you surveyed that group specifically on how they feel about you offering aggressive incentives to expand the fan base? I guess I would want to make sure that my countermeasures to expand attendance overall would truly be alienating them- or would they be happy to see a full, high energy ballpark- that would overtime increase the value of their season tickets when they need to re-sell, etc.?
Now we are getting into some good exchange and I appreciate it. Typically, I get the: “Dude, you are an idiot and should be fired because you are a moron, you idiot. All upper deck tickets should be $5 forever. Bleachers $15 and beer should be no more than $2.50……that will pack the park.” That and we will be fielding a team with the payroll of the Pirates a few years ago. I make no apologies for protecting the value of the season ticket holders as my answer would be similar to the above. I think we agree that we are a bit in unchartered waters here blending time commitment, price, value, team performance and experience. It is a bit of a trickier equation than simply “lower the prices”. There is no silver bullet here. Thanks again for taking the time Brooks- I'll be sitting Club Level down the RF line on Sunday and I'm hoping to attend the Dick Allen dinner on Monday night.


If you think of it, please shoot me an email on Sunday. If there is an open seat somewhere near you (this was my attempt at humor), let’s talk about the ballpark experience thing if you are open to it.

Do you mind if I share some of your comments with others (I don't want to pull a "Wikileaks" on you :) )- they are thoughtful and reasonable responses and it says alot about you and the White Sox that you took time on a Thursday night to respond.

If you think that it will help educate some of the fans (never works for everyone – I get that), I am open to it and thanks for asking. Typically, when I respond, I know there is a risk that things can be posted and I have to hope that they are not taken out of context. I felt comfortable having an exchange with you because you are willing to have an open dialogue and want to TRY to understand our thinking as opposed to having an argument. I don’t know where you plan to post but if you believe that my comments are reasonable and would help educate some of our best fans to what we are trying to do, I am fine with it. If it just causes an uproar, maybe my strategy should be one fan at a time. Either way works for me and I will trust your judgment based on the readers and the temperament of the group (or mob if they are really angry). That said, thanks for thinking that our exchange could help and for keeping an open mind.

Let's sweep the Brewers and get back into 1st.

Let’s get tonight and get back into first. Then whip ‘em on Saturday and Sunday to take some momentum on the road.

Go Sox.

XplodingScorbord
06-22-2012, 01:48 PM
Kudos to Brooks for his responses, and to you for having a reasonable dialog not driven by anger and accusations. This is the way to move the needle when you want to get something done.

doublem23
06-22-2012, 01:49 PM
Overall a good exchange. Only a couple of things I noticed:

The new city tax on parking for this year was only $2. That's 8% of the total amount of what you fork over when you hit the lots. I don't know how much the Sox need to pay for the lots, how much taxes or rent there is (if any) but I have a hard time believing they don't make megacash on the lots.
I get that you need to protect season ticket holders and committed fans and what not, but some of these problems have been going on for years. Have the corners of the Upper or Lower Bowls ever been hot tickets? They're never full, it's not like this is a new phenomenon to this season that the Sox can't respond to without pissing off season ticket holders, the Sox have had years to try and find a solution and they refuse to. Frankly, I'm surprised they haven't turned 1-2 of the corner OF sections into the Comcast Family Zone or whatever; slash the prices of the tickets and have it be an alcohol-free area. I think it would be huge for the Sox.

Jerko
06-22-2012, 01:55 PM
OK, the closed stands one was mine. I wasn't talking about stands closing "early", I was talking about them being closed for the ENTIRE game with a bad WordPerfect sign taped to it telling people where to go get service. And wow, they played sweet home chicago once! Those answers seemed evasive, at best.

FielderJones
06-22-2012, 01:57 PM
Good job.

I think the one thing Brooks should take out of this exchange is that the dynamic pricing is not being perceived as a good thing, that people are unaware of the special deals, and that they need to change their communication strategy about affordable tickets. I think the TV spots on WGN, WCIU, and CSN need to spell these deals out clearly, show some exciting plays and some excited fans, and make a White Sox game look like affordable, fun family entertainment.

LITTLE NELL
06-22-2012, 01:59 PM
I almost choked on my afternoon banana when he said people will be happy to pay 25 dollars to park if it takes them 2 hours to get to the park.
Yeah right, I'm driving for 2 hours burning up expensive gas in stop and go traffic and I'm going to be so so happy to fork over 25 bucks to park.

dagame2005
06-22-2012, 02:01 PM
Part 4- End of Exchange

Concerns About Season Ticket Holders- I understand this a very delicate balancing act. And maybe there is a way to make the adjustments necessary for 2013 to allow you to serve both your season ticket holders as well as expanding overall attendance. Overall- the #1 issue is all of those 100 level empty seats showing up on TV and sending a poor signal about the White Sox. Have you surveyed that group specifically on how they feel about you offering aggressive incentives to expand the fan base? I guess I would want to make sure that my countermeasures to expand attendance overall would truly be alienating them- or would they be happy to see a full, high energy ballpark- that would overtime increase the value of their season tickets when they need to re-sell, etc.?

Now we are getting into some good exchange and I appreciate it. Typically, I get the: “Dude, you are an idiot and should be fired because you are a moron, you idiot. All upper deck tickets should be $5 forever. Bleachers $15 and beer should be no more than $2.50……that will pack the park.” That and we will be fielding a team with the payroll of the Pirates a few years ago. I make no apologies for protecting the value of the season ticket holders as my answer would be similar to the above. I think we agree that we are a bit in unchartered waters here blending time commitment, price, value, team performance and experience. It is a bit of a trickier equation than simply “lower the prices”. There is no silver bullet here. Thanks again for taking the time Brooks- I'll be sitting Club Level down the RF line on Sunday and I'm hoping to attend the Dick Allen dinner on Monday night.


If you think of it, please shoot me an email on Sunday. If there is an open seat somewhere near you (this was my attempt at humor), let’s talk about the ballpark experience thing if you are open to it.

Do you mind if I share some of your comments with others (I don't want to pull a "Wikileaks" on you :) )- they are thoughtful and reasonable responses and it says alot about you and the White Sox that you took time on a Thursday night to respond.

If you think that it will help educate some of the fans (never works for everyone – I get that), I am open to it and thanks for asking. Typically, when I respond, I know there is a risk that things can be posted and I have to hope that they are not taken out of context. I felt comfortable having an exchange with you because you are willing to have an open dialogue and want to TRY to understand our thinking as opposed to having an argument. I don’t know where you plan to post but if you believe that my comments are reasonable and would help educate some of our best fans to what we are trying to do, I am fine with it. If it just causes an uproar, maybe my strategy should be one fan at a time. Either way works for me and I will trust your judgment based on the readers and the temperament of the group (or mob if they are really angry). That said, thanks for thinking that our exchange could help and for keeping an open mind.

Let's sweep the Brewers and get back into 1st.

Let’s get tonight and get back into first. Then whip ‘em on Saturday and Sunday to take some momentum on the road.

Go Sox.



Thanks for posting this dialogue. It is good to know that they aren't just "sitting on their hands" over there.

DonnieDarko
06-22-2012, 02:01 PM
That was a wonderful exchange, man. Thanks a bunch for posting it!

I think that I see where Brooks is coming from now. I mean, worrying about not pissing off the STH makes complete sense now that I think about it, and I see that he has to walk a very fine line. That said however, I also agree with the previous comment: I see no reason why the corner seats shouldn't be some of the cheapest seats in the park (maybe THE cheapest). How many STH do you know that take seats there? I doubt there are very many, if any. Those seats if anything, I think, should get the $5 seat treatment. I bet that that'll get more butts into those seats.

And I don't think that beers should be $2.50 or something (even I have to admit that that won't work--that's less than any bar in the city charges!), but surely they shouldn't be...what, $7.50 per aluminum pint like they are now? Something like $6.25-$6.50 I could see, but anything over that is a bit too steep.

And for the love of God, water should not cost more than beer (even if just by a quarter)...then again, I may have misremembered this one, so please someone correct me on it if I'm wrong.

If you can, please pass the above on to Brooks, and this: I think that he's doing a good job while not having the best tools to work with. I understand that he cannot be as flexible as he wants. That does not mean that I don't have legitimate gripes with some things he's done (like the TV spots and not bringing back those $5 seats), but overall I like what he's done.

DonnieDarko
06-22-2012, 02:04 PM
I almost choked on my afternoon banana when he said people will be happy to pay 25 dollars to park if it takes them 2 hours to get to the park.
Yeah right, I'm driving for 2 hours burning up expensive gas in stop and go traffic and I'm going to be so so happy to fork over 25 bucks to park.

Uh, Nell. I think you misread that part. Brooks said the exact opposite...

Jerko
06-22-2012, 02:05 PM
Good job.

I think the one thing Brooks should take out of this exchange is that the dynamic pricing is not being perceived as a good thing, that people are unaware of the special deals, and that they need to change their communication strategy about affordable tickets. I think the TV spots on WGN, WCIU, and CSN need to spell these deals out clearly, show some exciting plays and some excited fans, and make a White Sox game look like affordable, fun family entertainment.

They can't "experiment to see what works" and expect people to be aware of that. Some of his answers were ridiculous.

doublem23
06-22-2012, 02:10 PM
I almost choked on my afternoon banana when he said people will be happy to pay 25 dollars to park if it takes them 2 hours to get to the park.
Yeah right, I'm driving for 2 hours burning up expensive gas in stop and go traffic and I'm going to be so so happy to fork over 25 bucks to park.

No, he said that they think the bigger obstacle to getting people to the games, especially from the Norther burbs, is the travel time, not the parking costs.

LITTLE NELL
06-22-2012, 02:12 PM
Uh, Nell. I think you misread that part. Brooks said the exact opposite...

Misread the 2 hour part but he still said people would be happy to pay 25 bucks if it didn't take 2 hours to get to the park, where are all these happy people.

DeadMoney
06-22-2012, 02:18 PM
I certainly understand trying to protect Season Ticket holders, but as I've said in other threads on WSI, there are other ways to do this (and I know they already do things like pre-sales, Grinder Bash, etc.). But, if they were really worried about protecting STH more than they are now (allowing them to lower prices on other tickets) then give the STH more perks...
- Invite STH to a suite for a game (and/or the Miller Lite Party Deck when it's not being used)
- Allow STH to have a voice in all things White Sox/Ballpark related (more so than a survey/call at season's end)
- Give STH food vouchers for food/drink on occassion (looking at Cle/Det perks, they do variations of this)
- Give STH *more* of a decreased price of parking benefit (Cle is $810 parking for 81 games for STH)

Honestly, there are many, many, many more of these small things the White Sox could do to make the Season Ticket holders feel like they're appreciated. And to "protect" them when things like decreasing prices on game-to-game tickets comes up.

ChiSoxGal85
06-22-2012, 02:26 PM
Thanks for sharing this, TomBradley.

OK everyone- Brooks was OK with me sharing this with all of you- it's pretty much unedited- both my comments (in black) and his replies (in red).

I'm very impressed that he took the time to have this dialogue with me.

Our email exchange (Part 1- Part 2 to Follow)

Original Email from Yesterday & His Response:

Brooks,

I have emailed you several times over the years and you have always had the decency to respond which has always impressed me.

I have been a loyal fan since 1971- and I am also responsible for a $30M business- so I think I bring a balanced perspective as both a loyal fan as well as a business executive.

The White Sox are completely irritating and alienating your fan base- the most loyal segment of that fan base- the diehards.


Examples that you should be aware of (including comments from your most loyal customers)

Dynamic Pricing- please stop with all the "herky jerky" short term promos that expire in a few hours, etc. Just put out a clear promotion on tickets for upcoming games- and stick with it up until game time. Comment from your customers:

"Just got an e-mail. That $14 dynamic deal for the Brewers series expires today at 4:30 (20 mins). They're killing a potentially huge walk up crowd."
We are trying things as we want to see what works within the new dynamic pricing system. We created a dynamic deal for last weekend with outfield seats. Those must be the ones you are talking about because the $14 seats can be bought at the box office up until game time or until the supply is completely sold. We have set prices low so those that buy early, save the most. Prices will creep up as you get closer to game day. We do have baseline prices so for those that are more “traditional” in their thinking, that is the safest bet. And, if you get the ticket for lower, they should be happy. What is weird is that this is the first time I have heard someone say “don’t do promotions” on pricing unless they go until gametime. I would think the more promotions the better. We had a pretty good response to the outfield promotion we promoted via social media so I cannot promise we won’t do it again. It was a pretty good deal. I hope you are cool with me shooting your straight with the answers. You may not agree with them but they are honest and, hopefully, reasonable.
I just don’t see why this is irritating or alienating our diehard fans. You need to expound on that one for me. I would think these types of offers would be great because our die hards are the fans that know they are going to the game. Again, for clarity, the $14 tix promotion for this weekend does go all the way to the game.



I just started reading through this but I must take issue with Brooks saying the $14 price is good through the game - I have an email right in front of me that says the price is only good through 4:30 pm. Someone's not on the same page.

Wedema
06-22-2012, 02:36 PM
Thanks for sharing this, TomBradley.




I just started reading through this but I must take issue with Brooks saying the $14 price is good through the game - I have an email right in front of me that says the price is only good through 4:30 pm. Someone's not on the same page.

Maybe the $14 price expired on line but is good at the box office until gametime.

TomBradley72
06-22-2012, 02:45 PM
Thanks for sharing this, TomBradley.




I just started reading through this but I must take issue with Brooks saying the $14 price is good through the game - I have an email right in front of me that says the price is only good through 4:30 pm. Someone's not on the same page.

This is very interesting- Brooks and I are getting to be email buddies. :cool:

Here's his response to this:

I just talked to our head of tickets. It was inadvertently shut down. $14 tix go all the way up to game time or until the supply of upper reserves are gone.

Thanks for the heads up.

Brooks

Jason82807
06-22-2012, 02:48 PM
On the balancing act between discounts and protecting season ticket holder value here are two ideas:

1. Separate pricing tiers for the upper and lower corners. Low attendance is one thing, but when the empty seats are always in the same sections game after game, year after year, that's saying something. I understand if the Sox don't want to charge less for a single game ticket than the season ticket rate of that section, otherwise season ticket holders would cry foul. If the corners were in a different category, they can price them more appropriately.

2. Rewards plan. Give full-season ticket holders a small percentage of each single-game ticket sale that was sold in their zone below the season ticket holder rate. This could create huge referral sales and pacify season ticket holders crying foul over discounts.

ChiSoxGal85
06-22-2012, 02:53 PM
I certainly understand trying to protect Season Ticket holders, but as I've said in other threads on WSI, there are other ways to do this (and I know they already do things like pre-sales, Grinder Bash, etc.). But, if they were really worried about protecting STH more than they are now (allowing them to lower prices on other tickets) then give the STH more perks...
- Invite STH to a suite for a game (and/or the Miller Lite Party Deck when it's not being used)
- Allow STH to have a voice in all things White Sox/Ballpark related (more so than a survey/call at season's end)
- Give STH food vouchers for food/drink on occassion (looking at Cle/Det perks, they do variations of this)
- Give STH *more* of a decreased price of parking benefit (Cle is $810 parking for 81 games for STH)

Honestly, there are many, many, many more of these small things the White Sox could do to make the Season Ticket holders feel like they're appreciated. And to "protect" them when things like decreasing prices on game-to-game tickets comes up.

I think these are great ideas. I would think season ticket holders would rather see the ballpark full of fans cheering for the team. Plus when demand goes up, it makes it easier and probably a little more profitable for them to sell any season ticket they won't use.

This is very interesting- Brooks and I are getting to be email buddies. :cool:

Here's his response to this:

I just talked to our head of tickets. It was inadvertently shut down. $14 tix go all the way up to game time or until the supply of upper reserves are gone.

Thanks for the heads up.

Brooks
:thumbsup:

Jerko
06-22-2012, 02:59 PM
I'm a split STH and I don't care if the Sox drop prices for certain games I already have tickets to.

I still think the "ballpark experience" end of things is being run like a dog and pony show however. That HAS to improve.

kittle42
06-22-2012, 03:09 PM
I'm a split STH and I don't care if the Sox drop prices for certain games I already have tickets to.

I still think the "ballpark experience" end of things is being run like a dog and pony show however. That HAS to improve.

I am a full season STH (though my other two partners split the whole plan this season at my request), and I wouldn't care if we weren't as "protected" as the Sox think we need to be.

You purchase ST so you have guaranteed seats - in a location you like - to every game, and get some nice perks, too. Don't rip off the rest of the public for our "benefit."

Oh, and even with those "benefits," STH have been dropping.

Quentin08
06-22-2012, 03:12 PM
I certainly understand trying to protect Season Ticket holders, but as I've said in other threads on WSI, there are other ways to do this (and I know they already do things like pre-sales, Grinder Bash, etc.). But, if they were really worried about protecting STH more than they are now (allowing them to lower prices on other tickets) then give the STH more perks...
- Invite STH to a suite for a game (and/or the Miller Lite Party Deck when it's not being used)
- Allow STH to have a voice in all things White Sox/Ballpark related (more so than a survey/call at season's end)
- Give STH food vouchers for food/drink on occassion (looking at Cle/Det perks, they do variations of this)
- Give STH *more* of a decreased price of parking benefit (Cle is $810 parking for 81 games for STH)

Honestly, there are many, many, many more of these small things the White Sox could do to make the Season Ticket holders feel like they're appreciated. And to "protect" them when things like decreasing prices on game-to-game tickets comes up.

+1

Protecting your STH base and attracting more season ticket holders each season has to be the #1 objective. There needs to be major incentives to keep STH happy.

I'd like to hear some insight from current or former STH on the benefits you received, besides seeing a winning team. Is it all worth it? Would you get pissed off if someone next to you paid half of what you paid because of a promo deal? I really doubt I'd be pissed off if I was a STH and the Sox had to consistently resort to promo deals to fill the seats. It's always more fun when the Cell is packed. And if I received enough perks, I'd be happy. I still think the main reason people aren't going is because they know it's not a hot ticket. Everyone wants a hot ticket. And a string of sell outs can turn any product into a hot ticket.

Thanks, TomBradley72, for sharing your dialogue. Great read..

Lip Man 1
06-22-2012, 03:15 PM
I give a lot of credit to both Tom and Brooks for a very solid exchange.

I understand where Brooks is coming from but I also think he's overstating the importance of 'pleasing' (for wont of a better word) the season ticket base.

Season ticket holders get perks for making the investment that folks who just buy a few tickets a season don't get. You can increase the value of season tickets by offering more perks and that shouldn't upset the same season ticket base because tickets in the bleachers say or the corners were marked down for sale.

My initial thought when reading Brooks comments along the line of the season ticket holders was that this was the same mentality the Hawks used to 'justify' not televising home games...i.e. don't want to upset the "season reservation" (Dollar Bill Wirtz's words) holders.

That worked out really well for them didn't it?

The Hawks franchise had one foot in the grave in part because of that type of thinking.

The Sox have lost total fans from the previous season for five straight years now. That's getting into former Hawks territory there.

Lip

DeadMoney
06-22-2012, 03:15 PM
I am a full season STH (though my other two partners split the whole plan this season at my request), and I wouldn't care if we weren't as "protected" as the Sox think we need to be.

You purchase ST so you have guaranteed seats - in a location you like - to every game, and get some nice perks, too. Don't rip off the rest of the public for our "benefit."

Oh, and even with those "benefits," STH have been dropping.

I'd hazard to guess that a good number of STH are on the same page. I know for me, as a full STH (with two other guys I split with), I'd have no problem with lowering prices (below STH prices) for games.

It just seems odd - if Brooks is so worried about protecting STH as much as he seems to portray, how about the White Sox try to talk to STH about it to see how we feel before jumping to such conclusions.

Lip Man 1
06-22-2012, 03:17 PM
Dead:

That's an excellent observation.

Lip

kittle42
06-22-2012, 03:21 PM
It just seems odd - if Brooks is so worried about protecting STH as much as he seems to portray, how about the White Sox try to talk to STH about it to see how we feel before jumping to such conclusions.

Thank you!

DeadMoney
06-22-2012, 03:31 PM
Dead:

That's an excellent observation.

Lip

Thank you!

It's interesting... I sent an e-mail to Brooks back on June 8 and haven't gotten a response. In it, I included this:
"Additional to having account representatives speak with season ticket holders about some of these issues we have, would it be possible to put together a season ticket holder focus group that can meet once or twice per year (and off season)? This group could meet before games and speak to White Sox personnel about issues that they've seen and would like to possibly change. At the very least, this would allow for fans (or select fans) to have a visible opinion in the process of improving fan experience. And although the surveys at the end of the season are undoubtedly seen, I think offering this opportunity may make some people feel as if they're part of the White Sox family as well (and not just a number, words in a survey, or a dollar amount in a budget)."

I'm starting to think I should maybe forward this along again... I just don't want to bombard him with my lengthy thoughts on things after he and Tom/fans have clearly had in depth discussions on this already.

S-SideTrifecta
06-22-2012, 03:37 PM
When Brooks talks about not wanting to piss off season ticket holders, I got a real good chuckle from that, haven't they done just that over the last 5-6 years? I used to be a season ticket holder for many years and finally said to hell with it when they started that whole "playoff ticket" thing trying to lock everyones money up for next years season tickets. That was the final straw for me. I think the Sox need to get real creative and restructure all ticket pricing including season tickets. The Sox have already pissed off the season ticket holders, Brooks seriously? Don't you know that?

Rocky Soprano
06-22-2012, 03:40 PM
I am a full season STH (though my other two partners split the whole plan this season at my request), and I wouldn't care if we weren't as "protected" as the Sox think we need to be.

You purchase ST so you have guaranteed seats - in a location you like - to every game, and get some nice perks, too. Don't rip off the rest of the public for our "benefit."

Oh, and even with those "benefits," STH have been dropping.

I wonder if Brooks has reached out to STH about this. If most feel like you then they are really missing an opportunity to pack the park.

LITTLE NELL
06-22-2012, 03:51 PM
Just curious, does a full season ticket holder pay a flat rate per game, in others words X amount of dollars X 81 games or does he also pay the extra amount for premium games?

kobo
06-22-2012, 03:53 PM
I understand Brooks not wanting to alienate or anger STH, but how many STH are out there? The numbers have decreased over the last few years and I'm not sure just what percentage of those that are left would really be angered by lowering ticket prices. It almost seems to me that if he did anger say 25% of the current STH base by lowering tickets that perhaps they would gain more STH next year due to the lowering of prices. It's almost a Wirtzian way of thinking and I don't agree with it at all.

The other thing that got to me is that it seems dynamic pricing is here to stay. Not only that, but Brooks does not seem to understand how it should actually work. The demand is not there to justify raising ticket prices the closer a game approaches. If anything, the prices should be going down to draw in customers. Same goes for the 'supply' of discounted tickets. Don't limit yourself by offering a limited number of tickets at a discounted rate. Again, the point is to get people in the seats. Limiting the amount of tickets that can be sold at X price makes no sense; but that just goes back into not wanting to alienate the already dwindling number of STH.

I'm glad Tom and Brooks were able to have a civil discussion, but Brooks just doesn't seem to get 'it'. He mentioned a few times about maximizing revenue but fails to understand you can't maximize revenue when people don't come out to see your product. It's disheartening to say the least.

hawkjt
06-22-2012, 03:58 PM
Good dialogue,thanks to Tom and Brooks.

I agree with Lip that I though of Bill Wirtz's line about protecting ''reservation owners''...weird hocky lingo...:smile:..when Brooks kept referring to protecting the STH's.

I agree that they should just go with some ads during the game advertising 6 dollar tickets in the upper corners...I think I saw that on the Cardinal telecast the other nite on MLBNetwork...just come right out and flash that 6 dollar ticket number ...make it obvious. Even if it is just a few thousand seats in the upper tank corners...would that really enrage STH's? I have serious doubts. STH's want a buzz in the park and the team to win,right? More buzz,better chance of winning,which is the ultimate ballpark experience,imo. I do think that the losing record at home the last two seasons has probably soured more fans than anything. I hate losing the games I attend and I have a lousy record the last two years...just kills my enjoyment of attending...maybe I am too much of a fan?

soxgirl617
06-22-2012, 03:59 PM
TomBradley, thanks so much for posting your exchange with Brooks, and for your thorough but civil summary of the concerns on this thread. I too am very impressed with Brooks' responses--both his quick response and the substance of his comments. I don't agree with everything he said, but then I don't expect to agree with everything anyone says!

Just wanted to add my two cents on the "don't piss off the STH" issue. I am a full season ticketholder (split with a partner), and have had season tickets every year since 1991---the year The Cell opened. I will admit that, from a selfish standpoint, it annoys me that we (STH) don't get a discount on our season tickets on Half-Price Mondays. We, unlike pretty much anyone else in the park, pay full price for those games, and it irritates me every year. So, on the one hand, Brooks is right to be concerned about annoying STH by undercutting prices during the season---which is ironically something the Sox do re Half Price Mondays. However, I also agree that it's more fun to go to a game when the park is full. (I also believe that a full park has an indirect but positive impact on the players, so that's good.) I can see a benefit to me, and to the team, by having a full park, even if that means sometimes ticket prices are lower than what I paid.

Obviously, since I've been a STH for so long, it's not all about the cost for me. I'm a STH so I get my choice of seats and am guaranteed playoff tickets. Plus, I love baseball, and the White Sox, so that's what I do in the summers. If it were only about the dollars and cents, I'd give up my season tickets, and do what others have done---just buy single game tickets, on the secondary market, for the same number of games. There is more to it than money. BUT, I do appreciate Brooks keeping STH in mind. It's a fine line, especially when you're talking about the people who shell out thousands of dollars, months before the season, to help keep the money coming in when there are no games.

Golden Sox
06-22-2012, 04:00 PM
I've been a STH for years. I wouldn't be the least bit offended if they discounted the Upper Deck tickets like they did a few weeks ago against Toronto. It makes sense to discount those Upper Deck seats permanently so you could attract more younger fans like they did that particular series.

MarySwiss
06-22-2012, 04:01 PM
I'm a split STH and I don't care if the Sox drop prices for certain games I already have tickets to.

I still think the "ballpark experience" end of things is being run like a dog and pony show however. That HAS to improve.

I am a full season STH (though my other two partners split the whole plan this season at my request), and I wouldn't care if we weren't as "protected" as the Sox think we need to be.

You purchase ST so you have guaranteed seats - in a location you like - to every game, and get some nice perks, too. Don't rip off the rest of the public for our "benefit."

Oh, and even with those "benefits," STH have been dropping.

I'd hazard to guess that a good number of STH are on the same page. I know for me, as a full STH (with two other guys I split with), I'd have no problem with lowering prices (below STH prices) for games.

It just seems odd - if Brooks is so worried about protecting STH as much as he seems to portray, how about the White Sox try to talk to STH about it to see how we feel before jumping to such conclusions.

Interesting! When I was reading Brooks's comments about angering STHs, I was wondering what STHs would actually think about this. It did seem sort of lame. Why would STHs, who buy blocks of games or full seasons' worth, care if someone got a better deal for one game? Or two? And are the seats available for single games anywhere near as good--for the most part--as the STH seats?

soxgirl617
06-22-2012, 04:01 PM
Just curious, does a full season ticket holder pay a flat rate per game, in others words X amount of dollars X 81 games or does he also pay the extra amount for premium games?

STH pay the premium amount. We pay different prices for "regular', "prime", "premier", and "Cub" games, just like everyone else. We DON'T, however, get a discount for Value Mondays.

LITTLE NELL
06-22-2012, 04:04 PM
STH pay the premium amount. We pay different prices for "regular', "prime", "premier", and "Cub" games, just like everyone else. We DON'T, however, get a discount for Value Mondays.

Thanks for the info.

soxgirl617
06-22-2012, 04:06 PM
I've been a STH for years. I wouldn't be the least bit offended if they discounted the Upper Deck tickets like they did a few weeks ago against Toronto. It makes sense to discount those Upper Deck seats permanently so you could attract more younger fans like they did that particular series.

The real question is whether it would annoy you if the Sox discounted tickets in YOUR section (assuming your season seats aren't in the UD).

I agree that it makes sense to discount UD tickets permanently (or at least parts of the UD).

MarySwiss
06-22-2012, 04:10 PM
The real question is whether it would annoy you if the Sox discounted tickets in YOUR section.

I agree that it makes sense to discount UD tickets permanently (or at least parts of the UD).

See, that's what I'm wondering about. Does this actually happen? I always assumed that STHs basically blocked out the best seats. So how could tickets be available in your section? Or am I missing something?

kevingrt
06-22-2012, 04:11 PM
See, that's what I'm wondering about. Does this actually happen? I always assumed that STHs basically blocked out the best seats. So how could tickets be available in your section? Or am I missing something?

STH holders can sit anywhere in the park.

Wedema
06-22-2012, 04:17 PM
See, that's what I'm wondering about. Does this actually happen? I always assumed that STHs basically blocked out the best seats. So how could tickets be available in your section? Or am I missing something?

Most of the seats from first base to third base are STH seats. I have been a STH since 1987 at the old Park with my Dad and 1991 on my own. I could care less if the UD seats or lower corner sections are sold cheap as I have no interest in sitting in those areas. I would rather have a full, lively Park to enjoy the game. My sections (129 and 120) are all STH's except for maybe the last couple of rows.

Max Power
06-22-2012, 05:02 PM
We are trying things as we want to see what works within the new dynamic pricing system. ... We have set prices low so those that buy early, save the most. Prices will creep up as you get closer to game day. We do have baseline prices so for those that are more “traditional” in their thinking, that is the safest bet.

First, props to TomBradley72 for his email and to Brooks for allowing his response to be posted.

I'm still trying to make sense of Brooks's response to the first question. His comments about prices going up as a game approaches are just not true. With the random ticket deals and dynamic pricing, ticket prices are falling as games approach. I guess, in theory, they could rise if we were selling out all the time, but we're not even close.

Also, what's with Brooks's obsession over the "safest" way to buy tickets? I mean ten years ago maybe I could understand it, but has anyone been burned by Stubhub or any other reputable ticket re-seller lately?

kevingrt
06-22-2012, 05:12 PM
First, props to TomBradley72 for his email and to Brooks for allowing his response to be posted.

I'm still trying to make sense of Brooks's response to the first question. His comments about prices going up as a game approaches are just not true. With the random ticket deals and dynamic pricing, ticket prices are falling as games approach. I guess, in theory, they could rise if we were selling out all the time, but we're not even close.

Also, what's with Brooks's obsession over the "safest" way to buy tickets? I mean ten years ago maybe I could understand it, but has anyone been burned by Stubhub or any other reputable ticket re-seller lately?

Both your points are what I am completely lost by. If there are 20k unsold seats an hour before the game and this is dynamic ticket pricing and a true market economy system shouldn't they be near giving away tickets as the game approaches? Isn't that simple economics 101? I mean look at scalpers on the street. As the game approaches they have to lower there ticket prices because either supply is too high or demand is too low. They can keep dynamic ticket pricing next year but the name really has to change.

And the safest way stuff is crap. StubHub, Ticketsnow, Gold Coast (which is a sponsor of the Sox), etc. are all super safe. Heck even eBay I have never had one problem on. Every way is safe to buy tickets now Brooks save some instances on Craigslist and maybe scalping on the streets.

DSpivack
06-22-2012, 06:27 PM
Both your points are what I am completely lost by. If there are 20k unsold seats an hour before the game and this is dynamic ticket pricing and a true market economy system shouldn't they be near giving away tickets as the game approaches? Isn't that simple economics 101? I mean look at scalpers on the street. As the game approaches they have to lower there ticket prices because either supply is too high or demand is too low. They can keep dynamic ticket pricing next year but the name really has to change.

And the safest way stuff is crap. StubHub, Ticketsnow, Gold Coast (which is a sponsor of the Sox), etc. are all super safe. Heck even eBay I have never had one problem on. Every way is safe to buy tickets now Brooks save some instances on Craigslist and maybe scalping on the streets.

StubHub is an official partner of MLB, no?

Noneck
06-22-2012, 06:35 PM
All the real good seats are held by season ticket holders and I am sure these seats are the majority of season tics sold. Why would they care if the rest of the seats are now cut price? Its not like all seats are the same, they realize what they have and shouldnt care what the crappier seats go for.

Brian26
06-22-2012, 06:41 PM
They can't "experiment to see what works" and expect people to be aware of that. Some of his answers were ridiculous.

It's pretty amazing to watch a guy like Brooks dig his own grave with these ridiculous responses.

For a vice-president within a multi-million dollar company to publicly admit that he is "experimenting to see what works" is a gross miscalculation.

As a fan who has spent a lot of money on tickets over the years, I'd never want to hear that I'm the guinea pig in an "experiment". I'd like, instead, to know the Sox did their homework and research in advance.

Brian26
06-22-2012, 06:48 PM
Now we are getting into some good exchange and I appreciate it. Typically, I get the: “Dude, you are an idiot and should be fired because you are a moron, you idiot. All upper deck tickets should be $5 forever. Bleachers $15 and beer should be no more than $2.50……that will pack the park.” That and we will be fielding a team with the payroll of the Pirates a few years ago.

Let me go on record that I never said that about Brooks.

I only said he's an idiot and a moron because he started messing with the uniforms because of "branding". :thumbsup:

I_Liked_Manuel
06-22-2012, 10:18 PM
Brooks isn't a bright guy.

roylestillman
06-22-2012, 11:31 PM
Let me add to the thanks to TomBradley and Brooks for the exchange. Can't agree with all of His points, but it was an open discussion and at least I understand some of the logic behind it. The one point that wasn't made clear is why dynamic pricing takes ticket prices above face value, even when there are 15,000 empty seats in the park. It kept me home for the weekend Cleveland series, and made getting a group together for the Cub series a nightmare as the prices rose from $54 to $79 to $104, yet there was still thousands of empty seats.

Golden Sox
06-23-2012, 09:06 AM
Perhaps this attendance topic has become too big of an issue. To the best of my knowledge the White Sox have the 10th best revenues in MLB. With their Tv and Radio deals they are in better shape financially than some other teams who might have better attendance than the White Sox. Pittsburgh, Kansas City and St. Louis could outdraw the White Sox but the White Sox are still making more money than those teams.

dickallen15
06-23-2012, 09:06 AM
56.1 % capacity last night. Premium lower boxes were only $85 on ticketmaster. Bleachers only $57. Friday night, perfect weather. Milwaukee, 90 miles away, you'd think at least SOME Brewers fans would make the trek.

How many more of these until Brooks realizes he's wrong? I'm starting to get the feeling the White Sox really like the low attendance, because its something they use as a crutch. No one asks them about revenue, which up until at least this year, puts them well into the top half of MLB, usually even in the top 10. Just attendance. They had the 4th or 5th highest ticket price in baseball the last few years. They don't lower the price, they keep it the same except raise it drastically if you don't want to buy the tickets months in advance. Sure, they offer "dynamic deals" on upper deck seats beyond the foul pouls which rarely are sold, and in all fairness, if you didn't want to wait until game day, you could have got a bleacher seat for $38 on a "dynamic deal".

I read the exchange with Brooks, and really his argument is he knows everything is overpriced but you can go on a Monday and get a seat where you can't pick up a ball for $7. I understand he wants to "protect" the season ticketholders. If I were in his position, I would feel the same way, but again, he talks out of both sides of his mouth. The big accounts he really doesn't want to piss off are the premium seat holders. Those seats (premium lower box, premium club box, Scout Seats, Gold Coast Tickets Club) aren't available except for scattered tickets in the worst locations of those locations. If Brooks is willing to sell lower boxes for x amount using a code, but charges almost double that for people who can't navigate the internet to find these codes, how is that "protecting" the season ticketholder? How is not giving season ticketholders the 50% discount on Monday's protecting them? Notice a few years ago, the White Sox did away with the 50% discount on Mondays for premium lower and premium club boxes. You know who Brooks really wants to protect, and lowering prices in other sections isn't going to set them off.

RealFan
06-23-2012, 09:13 AM
I became a full season STH in 2008 (good timing I know) without any partners. For me, the advent of Stub Hub has been a god send and I have been able to sell most if not all games at a reasonable value so that my "loss" is mitigated.

Similar to the STH's who have posted before me in this thread, I derive the greatest value from 1) attending games in great seats that I know I control for as long as I can afford them, 2) watching my beloved White Sox in person, 3) and enjoying that experience with as many fellow Sox fans as possible.

What someone else paid to sit in the bleachers, upper deck, near my section or even in my row is not something that I worry about. I get that the Sox will have to price tix lower sometimes to get people to the park. And similar to the 2006 season, I understand that if demand is high that the secondary market will allow STHs to make a profit.

But I'm not in this for the money. I've been blessed by God with the ability to afford these tickets without concern and having grown up lower middle class and attending one game every other year, I truly am thankful for the opportunity.

I think Brook should do a survey of STHs. I very much appreciate his desire to protect us as we are the ones most willing to commit dollars to the organization year in and year out. But I also think he needs to put himself in our shoes to understand our motivations and desires.

I summarize as follows - the value of a STH's EXPERIENCE at the park goes up when attendance is higher. You feel part of something bigger and that alone mitigates any negative feelings about the prices paid by others in the park.

This is a great thread - I hope the Sox see it and react accordingly.

GO WHITE SOX!!!

Thome25
06-23-2012, 09:18 AM
I became a full season STH in 2008 (good timing I know) without any partners. For me, the advent of Stub Hub has been a god send and I have been able to sell most if not all games at a reasonable value so that my "loss" is mitigated.

Similar to the STH's who have posted before me in this thread, I derive the greatest value from 1) attending games in great seats that I know I control for as long as I can afford them, 2) watching my beloved White Sox in person, 3) and enjoying that experience with as many fellow Sox fans as possible.

What someone else paid to sit in the bleachers, upper deck, near my section or even in my row is not something that I worry about. I get that the Sox will have to price tix lower sometimes to get people to the park. And similar to the 2006 season, I understand that if demand is high that the secondary market will allow STHs to make a profit.

But I'm not in this for the money. I've been blessed by God with the ability to afford these tickets without concern and having grown up lower middle class and attending one game every other year, I truly am thankful for the opportunity.

I think Brook should do a survey of STHs. I very much appreciate his desire to protect us as we are the ones most willing to commit dollars to the organization year in and year out. But I also think he needs to put himself in our shoes to understand our motivations and desires.

I summarize as follows - the value of a STH's EXPERIENCE at the park goes up when attendance is higher. You feel part of something bigger and that alone mitigates any negative feelings about the prices paid by others in the park.

This is a great thread - I hope the Sox see it and react accordingly.

GO WHITE SOX!!!

This post among others from STHs in this thread is very well said. You and the rest of the STHs should reiterate your feedback to Brooks directly IMO.

Jerko
06-23-2012, 09:30 AM
How about a graphic on tv during games, or on the scoreboards at the Cell? Would it have been so hard to flash, say, during Monday's game vs the Cubs: "Upper deck/lower corner tickets for the upcoming Brewers series are X amount of dollars", then LEAVE IT THAT WAY? No, they try to raise it as high as they can for as long as they can, then nobody comes, then they try it again when the next team comes to town and the circle of life goes on and on and on and on. street lights, people......oh, sorry.

RealFan
06-23-2012, 09:34 AM
This post among others from STHs in this thread is very well said. You and the rest of the STHs should reiterate your feedback to Brooks directly IMO.

Thanks - I actually just sent him an e-mail on all of this. I was waiting for Brooks' response to be posted in this thread before I wrote my e-mail.

Dan H
06-23-2012, 09:51 AM
56.1 % capacity last night. Premium lower boxes were only $85 on ticketmaster. Bleachers only $57. Friday night, perfect weather. Milwaukee, 90 miles away, you'd think at least SOME Brewers fans would make the trek.

How many more of these until Brooks realizes he's wrong? I'm starting to get the feeling the White Sox really like the low attendance, because its something they use as a crutch. No one asks them about revenue, which up until at least this year, puts them well into the top half of MLB, usually even in the top 10. Just attendance. They had the 4th or 5th highest ticket price in baseball the last few years. They don't lower the price, they keep it the same except raise it drastically if you don't want to buy the tickets months in advance. Sure, they offer "dynamic deals" on upper deck seats beyond the foul pouls which rarely are sold, and in all fairness, if you didn't want to wait until game day, you could have got a bleacher seat for $38 on a "dynamic deal".

I read the exchange with Brooks, and really his argument is he knows everything is overpriced but you can go on a Monday and get a seat where you can't pick up a ball for $7. I understand he wants to "protect" the season ticketholders. If I were in his position, I would feel the same way, but again, he talks out of both sides of his mouth. The big accounts he really doesn't want to piss off are the premium seat holders. Those seats (premium lower box, premium club box, Scout Seats, Gold Coast Tickets Club) aren't available except for scattered tickets in the worst locations of those locations. If Brooks is willing to sell lower boxes for x amount using a code, but charges almost double that for people who can't navigate the internet to find these codes, how is that "protecting" the season ticketholder? How is not giving season ticketholders the 50% discount on Monday's protecting them? Notice a few years ago, the White Sox did away with the 50% discount on Mondays for premium lower and premium club boxes. You know who Brooks really wants to protect, and lowering prices in other sections isn't going to set them off.

I understand too that the Sox have to do what they can please season ticket holders. They invest more money and time than the average fan. But there problems still remain no matter how season ticket holders are appeased.

The current ownership understood one thing very well when they purchsed the team in 1981: Baseball economics was changing and they had to appeal to the season ticket holder more and then to the corporate fan. What they didn't understand was the average fan began to feel left out in the cold. Once fans who went to 4-5 games a year were considered the backbone of the team fan base. Not so much anymore. And the problem this causes for attendance is obvious since the overwhleming majority of fans don't have the money or time to purchase season tickets and they certainly will not end sitting in a sky box.

I realize that the White Sox, as well as any other organization, can't make everybody happy all the time. But they should at least understand history in that Baseball was a working class game. It can't be said it is that anymoe.

kittle42
06-23-2012, 11:50 AM
I will say that it very much seems like the Sox just want to keep crowds at 25k or below.

I mean, I know they don't, but their baffling logic only leads to that end.

Basically, they're full of **** and I'm getting a little sick of it. It doesn't help when I travel the country and go to stadiums that are much nicer, and cheaper, and talk with STHs in those towns that don't seem to have nearly the level of backlash toward their team that I do.

hawkjt
06-23-2012, 01:17 PM
I became a full season STH in 2008 (good timing I know) without any partners. For me, the advent of Stub Hub has been a god send and I have been able to sell most if not all games at a reasonable value so that my "loss" is mitigated.

Similar to the STH's who have posted before me in this thread, I derive the greatest value from 1) attending games in great seats that I know I control for as long as I can afford them, 2) watching my beloved White Sox in person, 3) and enjoying that experience with as many fellow Sox fans as possible.

What someone else paid to sit in the bleachers, upper deck, near my section or even in my row is not something that I worry about. I get that the Sox will have to price tix lower sometimes to get people to the park. And similar to the 2006 season, I understand that if demand is high that the secondary market will allow STHs to make a profit.

But I'm not in this for the money. I've been blessed by God with the ability to afford these tickets without concern and having grown up lower middle class and attending one game every other year, I truly am thankful for the opportunity.

I think Brook should do a survey of STHs. I very much appreciate his desire to protect us as we are the ones most willing to commit dollars to the organization year in and year out. But I also think he needs to put himself in our shoes to understand our motivations and desires.

I summarize as follows - the value of a STH's EXPERIENCE at the park goes up when attendance is higher. You feel part of something bigger and that alone mitigates any negative feelings about the prices paid by others in the park.

This is a great thread - I hope the Sox see it and react accordingly.

GO WHITE SOX!!!

Please send this to Brooks....good to hear from a STH who has this viewpoint.

Hitmen77
06-23-2012, 04:54 PM
The current ownership understood one thing very well when they purchsed the team in 1981: Baseball economics was changing and they had to appeal to the season ticket holder more and then to the corporate fan. What they didn't understand was the average fan began to feel left out in the cold. Once fans who went to 4-5 games a year were considered the backbone of the team fan base. Not so much anymore. And the problem this causes for attendance is obvious since the overwhleming majority of fans don't have the money or time to purchase season tickets and they certainly will not end sitting in a sky box.

I realize that the White Sox, as well as any other organization, can't make everybody happy all the time. But they should at least understand history in that Baseball was a working class game. It can't be said it is that anymoe.

This might be at the core of this franchise's problem. JR and Co. have owned the team for more than 30 years now. There have been good times and bad during those 3 decades. But one overarching constant that I have felt from the very beginning in 1981 is that they are a little too focused on corporate fans while making average fans feel left out in the cold.

Even the way New Comiskey was built seems to be around the luxury suites that pushed the upper deck even higher. I know that's just part of baseball economics today, but it really seemed to stand out at the new park (are some of those suites still empty to this day?).

When was the last time most fans saw the 2005 WS trophy in person? It's nowhere to be seen at the park. Last I heard, it's on display in the luxury suites area. I don't know if that's still true or not, but I believe this was the case the last couple of years. I've gone to Anaheim and Phoenix and they have their trophy prominently on display at the main entrance or in the main concourse. Of course, no one stays away from the Cell because the WS trophy is not on display (that's not what I'm suggesting), but to me, this is just very representative of the mentality of Sox ownership....and where their focus has always been.

This has been going on so long that this simply won't change until ownership changes. That doesn't mean they won't spend money on the team (as long as the revenue is there). But there has always been a penny wise, pound foolish philosophy to the current ownership.

amsteel
06-23-2012, 05:23 PM
I think the Sox have figured out that the maximum on their revenue curve falls around attendances between 22K-25K.

Someone earlier mentioned that they get out of some extra payments if attendance is below 1.9M they avoid some taxes. Also, on a game to game basis with the current prices, fewer fans, while meaning less concession revenue, means a higher profit per ticket, and lower costs regarding security, concession workers, parking attendants, cleaning, etc.

I would assume that the per fan concession revenue drops as the attendance grows.

LITTLE NELL
06-23-2012, 05:24 PM
I think the Sox have figured out that the maximum on their revenue curve falls around attendances between 22K-25K.

Someone earlier mentioned that they get out of some extra payments if attendance is below 1.9M they avoid some taxes. Also, on a game to game basis with the current prices, fewer fans, while meaning less concession revenue, means a higher profit per ticket, and lower costs regarding security, concession workers, parking attendants, cleaning, etc.

I would assume that the per fan concession revenue drops as the attendance grows.

What a way to run a business as our fan base shrinks and we send more fans to the Urinal.

Frater Perdurabo
06-23-2012, 08:20 PM
I agree with these last few posts. Sox ownership may be many things, but they are not business-stupid.

They would like to have working class business, but they are not going to put much of an effort into attracting it.

SI1020
06-23-2012, 09:38 PM
They may not be stupid but they've always been arrogant. Eventually the my way or the highway attitude comes out. It has been that way since 1981.

Wedema
06-23-2012, 11:18 PM
This might be at the core of this franchise's problem. JR and Co. have owned the team for more than 30 years now. There have been good times and bad during those 3 decades. But one overarching constant that I have felt from the very beginning in 1981 is that they are a little too focused on corporate fans while making average fans feel left out in the cold.

Even the way New Comiskey was built seems to be around the luxury suites that pushed the upper deck even higher. I know that's just part of baseball economics today, but it really seemed to stand out at the new park (are some of those suites still empty to this day?).

When was the last time most fans saw the 2005 WS trophy in person? It's nowhere to be seen at the park. Last I heard, it's on display in the luxury suites area. I don't know if that's still true or not, but I believe this was the case the last couple of years. I've gone to Anaheim and Phoenix and they have their trophy prominently on display at the main entrance or in the main concourse. Of course, no one stays away from the Cell because the WS trophy is not on display (that's not what I'm suggesting), but to me, this is just very representative of the mentality of Sox ownership....and where their focus has always been.

This has been going on so long that this simply won't change until ownership changes. That doesn't mean they won't spend money on the team (as long as the revenue is there). But there has always been a penny wise, pound foolish philosophy to the current ownership.

The World Series Trophy is in the Scout Seat Lounge area.

BainesHOF
06-23-2012, 11:28 PM
The World Series Trophy is in the Scout Seat Lounge area.

Yep, and so are the items that used to be on display in the team's Hall of Fame.

Brutal beyond belief.

chisoxfanatic
06-23-2012, 11:37 PM
Yep, and so are the items that used to be on display in the team's Hall of Fame.

Brutal beyond belief.
Important team memorabilia never has any business in premium seating areas.

russ99
06-23-2012, 11:50 PM
Yep, and so are the items that used to be on display in the team's Hall of Fame.

Brutal beyond belief.

The worst part about this, is with the opening of Chicago Sports Depot, that space where the "hall of fame" used to be is no longer so important as a prime retail space.

The Bulls have many memorabilia items at the 100 level so why not the Sox?

Dan H
06-24-2012, 07:09 AM
A few years ago I spoke with a woman who lives by Wrigley and was living there when night games first started. After the first few night games, she noticed that the neighborhood was free of litter and debris the mornings after. She said the Cubs organization had people out cleaning up the area. To her this was what was important: In many cases, people are bothered by little thngs and she thought the Cubs organization paid attention to those little things. (Not that keeping a neighborhood clean is little but I know what she meant.)

Some of the gripes on this thread are little but that doesn't mean they are not important. And when little things add up, they equal big things. I never thought the current onwership understood their fans or human nature in general. If they did, attendance would be better. It wouldn't skyrocket, but it would be better. And the White Sox might find that it doesn't cost them much.

tony1972
06-24-2012, 08:47 PM
I do understand that STH should have some preferential treatment. But this dynamic pricing is killing ...absolutely killing walk up crowds. Plus...the average fan who used to go to 5 or 6 games a year..now maybe goes to 1 or 2..not going and not taking their kids..will lower the STH fan base in years to come.

Foulke You
06-25-2012, 10:27 AM
Not sure if this has been posted anywhere but a good article about MLB price gouging in 2012. As we all suspected, our Sox are very high on most of these lists.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/price-gouging-in-2012/

salty99
06-25-2012, 11:39 AM
Does anyone else remember in the not too distant past when you park in LOT G at lot opening for around $8? They need to bring something like this back.

ChiSoxFann
06-25-2012, 11:45 AM
Yep, and so are the items that used to be on display in the team's Hall of Fame.

Brutal beyond belief.


Exactly. Every fan in the park deserves to see the WS trophy or those items displayed prominently somewhere. I splurged for my first Scout Seat experience earlier this year and they have some cool and interesting things in that lounge, but they put the roast beef and turkey servers in front of the case so you couldn't get a good look at them if you wanted.

Plus in that interview with Garfein on CSN Jerry Reinsdorf had a lot of memorabilia in his office. If they had a nice team HOF exhibit or something in the park you could display so many things. Who knows what else they have boxed up in the stadium somewhere.

Jerko
06-25-2012, 12:05 PM
Was at the game Saturday and saw a few things that might make people not want to come back to the Cell. Nothing major, but annoyances that don't need to happen.

A visibly pregnant woman and a large group of her friends were attempting to go to their seats, but she had another little kid and stroller with her. The usher would not let ANY of them go down to the seats until he "got clearance" from a different security guy, to the point the woman was in tears. Fold the thing up and put it under the seats. After about 30 minutes of wrangling, they finally let the group sit and said not to put the stroller in the aisle. DUH. This was about 45 minutes before first pitch and the place was empty at the time. Usher should know the rules (fold the stroller)

Now, after the game had started, a guy with a cane who walks faster than I do and 5 other people ambled up. The same usher went and got folding chairs for them, plopped them behind the last row of seats in the outfield concourse (which is in front of where people who stand watch the game) and proceeded to stand there with his hands in his pockets while the 2 bimbos in the group stood up the whole time, DURING game play, taking pictures. They asked me to take a pic of/for them and I said i would......if they sat down afterwards or waited until the inning was over. They sat, but why should that be MY ****ing job? Same usher; 2 different sets of rules. The people that WANTED to sit got ****ed with, but 2 idiots who were standing in the way of others during the action were ignored. NO consistency whatsoever.

Oh, and another note to park management if you are reading this: Tell the "fan photo" dudes to stay on the concourse. THAT tool was in the seating area, taking pics, making people stand up to pose DURING the game play. I'm sure the people sitting behind them were happy about that. ***, some of us ARE there to watch the game.

JB98
06-25-2012, 12:28 PM
Was at the game Saturday and saw a few things that might make people not want to come back to the Cell. Nothing major, but annoyances that don't need to happen.

A visibly pregnant woman and a large group of her friends were attempting to go to their seats, but she had another little kid and stroller with her. The usher would not let ANY of them go down to the seats until he "got clearance" from a different security guy, to the point the woman was in tears. Fold the thing up and put it under the seats. After about 30 minutes of wrangling, they finally let the group sit and said not to put the stroller in the aisle. DUH. This was about 45 minutes before first pitch and the place was empty at the time. Usher should know the rules (fold the stroller)

Now, after the game had started, a guy with a cane who walks faster than I do and 5 other people ambled up. The same usher went and got folding chairs for them, plopped them behind the last row of seats in the outfield concourse (which is in front of where people who stand watch the game) and proceeded to stand there with his hands in his pockets while the 2 bimbos in the group stood up the whole time, DURING game play, taking pictures. They asked me to take a pic of/for them and I said i would......if they sat down afterwards or waited until the inning was over. They sat, but why should that be MY ****ing job? Same usher; 2 different sets of rules. The people that WANTED to sit got ****ed with, but 2 idiots who were standing in the way of others during the action were ignored. NO consistency whatsoever.

Oh, and another note to park management if you are reading this: Tell the "fan photo" dudes to stay on the concourse. THAT tool was in the seating area, taking pics, making people stand up to pose DURING the game play. I'm sure the people sitting behind them were happy about that. ***, some of us ARE there to watch the game.

Better yet, send them home and tell them to never come back.

DeadMoney
06-25-2012, 01:17 PM
Better yet, send them home and tell them to never come back.

Every park I've been to has them, so that's not going to happen. I just wish they'd stay on the Fan Deck, on the Fundamentals Deck, in the BPSB, and on the concourses (by the statues) during the game. Heck, Seattle had a special area set up in/above CF that had a great view of the field in the background. St. Louis had a a few of them set up to take pictures with the World Series trophy. Last week, we had the BP Cup (feelings of this thing aside) out on the LF concourse with 1 security guard and people kept walking up to take pictures of it (no FanFoto person around).

WisSoxFan
06-25-2012, 01:38 PM
Every park I've been to has them, so that's not going to happen. I just wish they'd stay on the Fan Deck, on the Fundamentals Deck, in the BPSB, and on the concourses (by the statues) during the game. Heck, Seattle had a special area set up in/above CF that had a great view of the field in the background. St. Louis had a a few of them set up to take pictures with the World Series trophy. Last week, we had the BP Cup (feelings of this thing aside) out on the LF concourse with 1 security guard and people kept walking up to take pictures of it (no FanFoto person around).

So let me get this straight - Fans can get a picture with the BP cup, but the World Series trophy is no where to be found for the casual fan? That makes no sense to me.