PDA

View Full Version : *Official* "This is not acceptable" White Sox-Cubs 6/18 Postgame Thread


Viva Medias B's
06-18-2012, 10:59 PM
Okay, have at it boys and girls. Hopefully, none of you will be going to your respective emergency rooms after venting your spleens tonight.

amsteel
06-18-2012, 11:01 PM
WSI Overreaction Factors:

Twins x15
Cubs x10
Teams under 0.500 x5
Rest of AL Central x2

ChiSoxGal85
06-18-2012, 11:01 PM
Sometimes I wish I didn't care. Embarrassing.

vinny
06-18-2012, 11:01 PM
Garbage in, garbage out.

JB98
06-18-2012, 11:02 PM
No spleen venting, but Stewart is not a big-league pitcher. I knew that before tonight. Him getting pounded by an AAA team is just further evidence.

The Cubs are 3-15 against lefty starters. The Sox aren't starting any lefties against them. Not a fan of the rotation juggling this week.

Need a good one from Peavy tomorrow.

Madvora
06-18-2012, 11:02 PM
5-1 was the last thing I saw. I knew when to stop watching.

Tragg
06-18-2012, 11:02 PM
Kenny Williams trades - the gifts that keep on giving.

Viva Medias B's
06-18-2012, 11:05 PM
Kenny Williams trades - the gifts that keep on giving.

:roflmao:

:popcorn:
Now time for the Ranger to face all the callers, who might be a little upset.

RadioheadRocks
06-18-2012, 11:07 PM
Like I said in the game thread, the blind squirrels found some acorns tonight. Let's just hope the Sox get their heads out of their collective asses and win the final two.

Lip Man 1
06-18-2012, 11:07 PM
Four words for tonight:

ZAC STEWART... YOU SUCK

Lip

mahagga73
06-18-2012, 11:09 PM
:roflmao:

:popcorn:
Now time for the Ranger to face all the callers, who might be a little upset.
Ranger will agree with the managers moves 100 percent like he always does.Worst postgame in sports.

Frater Perdurabo
06-18-2012, 11:09 PM
Kenny Williams trades - the gifts that keep on giving.

KW inherited a team with a heart of the lineup that could mash. Only PK remains, and he's amazingly better now than he was in 2000. But Rios, while very good this year, is worse than Dye, who in turn was a downgrade from Maggs at his peak. Viciedo is a downgrade from Lee, and Dunn, while very good this year, is a downgrade from 2006-2009 Thome, who was a downgrade from 2000-2004 Frank.

LoveYourSuit
06-18-2012, 11:10 PM
This pitching staff blows!

thomas35forever
06-18-2012, 11:10 PM
Well, we all know where Stewart stands in the future of this team. I just hope the brass does too.

Lip Man 1
06-18-2012, 11:12 PM
Just remember friends this is a team that lost a home series to the A's...and to the Royals...and to the Astros...

Why should we expect them to do anything different against another trash team?

Lip

Nelfox02
06-18-2012, 11:12 PM
Had basically no hope that they would win this game when it was announced stewart would go against garza.......hate games like this

SoxSpeed22
06-18-2012, 11:13 PM
Maybe this could help Stewart for his future.
http://www.charlottesgotalot.com/

amsteel
06-18-2012, 11:14 PM
Real 1st place teams don't surrender consecutive games because their bench is so bad (or because of roster mis-management) and because they have nada lined up in the way of SP help.

arKnaD7
06-18-2012, 11:14 PM
I expected an "L" unless the offense put up a big number.

They didn't.

kittle42
06-18-2012, 11:16 PM
Regardless of opponent or strength of opponent, this team has sucked the last few weeks as much as it was awesome for the weeks immediately prior. You know where that eventually ends up? .500.

mahagga73
06-18-2012, 11:16 PM
Maybe this could help Stewart for his future.
http://www.charlottesgotalot.com/
I was thinking South Bend

tstrike2000
06-18-2012, 11:18 PM
No spleen venting, but Stewart is not a big-league pitcher. I knew that before tonight. Him getting pounded by an AAA team is just further evidence.

The Cubs are 3-15 against lefty starters. The Sox aren't starting any lefties against them. Not a fan of the rotation juggling this week.

Need a good one from Peavy tomorrow.

Let's start Thornton.

amsteel
06-18-2012, 11:21 PM
I was thinking South Bend

Don't wish that on anyone. That's just cruel and unusual.

Viva Medias B's
06-18-2012, 11:22 PM
John Danks has a Grade 1 tear. No surgery but longer time before he returns, per Rongey.

Tragg
06-18-2012, 11:23 PM
KW inherited a team with a heart of the lineup that could mash. Only PK remains, and he's amazingly better now than he was in 2000. But Rios, while very good this year, is worse than Dye, who in turn was a downgrade from Maggs at his peak. Viciedo is a downgrade from Lee, and Dunn, while very good this year, is a downgrade from 2006-2009 Thome, who was a downgrade from 2000-2004 Frank.

Those moves were okay - but note that none were via trades. IN fact, the only players on this roster that Williams got via trade are Thronton, Peavy, Floyd (a product of probably his best trade) and Danks. Now, count up all the trades Williams has made in the last 3 or 4 years.
He's so much better with Free Agents, waiver wire pick ups, and doink trades (Thornton).
Williams is equally poor at veterans he trades for and prospects. he likes vets past their prime and declining/failed prospects.
NO trades is the best policy, until JR can kick him upstairs.

mahagga73
06-18-2012, 11:24 PM
Regardless of opponent or strength of opponent, this team has sucked the last few weeks as much as it was awesome for the weeks immediately prior. You know where that eventually ends up? .500.
Thats the problem too.They always finish within a few games of .500.I bet the overrall record since 05 is about .500.The problem with that really is that there is no discernable plan for the future.The farm doesn't have enough talent to really go young ,although they have a few players this year homegrown that are good prospects.It seems like the goal is to just pick up enough players to finish around .500 and hope they all have career years and make the playoffs.It's not working,they need a new direction in the front office. At least the Flubs have a plan of action and they are sticking to it.

WhiteSox5187
06-18-2012, 11:25 PM
Regardless of opponent or strength of opponent, this team has sucked the last few weeks as much as it was awesome for the weeks immediately prior. You know where that eventually ends up? .500.

That's a good thing to remember. This team isn't awful but they aren't very good either. They are pretty much the definition of mediocre.

As for tonight, well, Zach Stewart is just not a major league pitcher. The Cubs threw a version of the Iowa Cubs out there and Stewart gave up what? Five runs? Maybe it was a side effect of him not being stretched out properly but it's not like he has been very good in long relief either. I think it's time to send him down. And then there was Will Ohman, my goodness. Last year at least he could get lefties out consistently. This year it seems like he's struggling against them too (or at least he did tonight). There are too many lefties in this bullpen already and I think Ohman has to be the one to go.

Oh well, get them tomorrow.

Lip Man 1
06-18-2012, 11:25 PM
Viva:

And the good news just keeps on coming! LOL.

Kenny's going to be on the spot again (and I'm sure he's getting tired of it...) do you try to stay in this, in a mediocre division and roll the dice...

Or do you start cutting payroll by shipping guys out and feel the wrath of the fans (even though that might be the wise thing to do...)

Inquiring minds want to know!!!

Lip

amsteel
06-18-2012, 11:25 PM
John Danks has a Grade 1 tear. No surgery but longer time before he returns, per Rongey.

No surprise there, the roster shuffle was more of a tryout for Stewart than a rest for Sale.

Communiques sent out after midnight on Saturdays are less about what's in the press release and more about what's between the lines.

WhiteSox5187
06-18-2012, 11:27 PM
Thats the problem too.They always finish within a few games of .500.I bet the overrall record since 05 is about .500.The problem with that really is that there is no discernable plan for the future.The farm doesn't have enough talent to really go young ,although they have a few players this year homegrown that are good prospects.It seems like the goal is to just pick up enough players to finish around .500 and hope they all have career years and make the playoffs.It's not working,they need a new direction in the front office. At least the Flubs have a plan of action and they are sticking to it.

They were built to win every year up until the end of 2008, that's when Kenny started his "rebuilding on the fly" program that lasted until July when he went out and got Peavy and Rios. Then it was back to "all in." This year was supposed to be another rebuilding effort but we will see if he sticks with it or goes out and gets another high priced veteran. Personally I think they are best served standing pat and seeing where they are in July.

Jollyroger2
06-18-2012, 11:33 PM
Disgraceful. But not unexpected. That's what happens when you have a rotation with two decent starters. And hey three more Ks for Dunn woo-hoo.

Lip Man 1
06-18-2012, 11:34 PM
Mahagga:

Since the start of the 2006 season through tonight's farce, the Sox are:

532 - 508

Since after the All Star Break in 2006 (when the Sox forgot how to play) through this evening's farce the Sox are:

475 - 477

The Sox have had three winning seasons in the past six full years.

You've hit it right on the head, mediocre any way you slice it.

Lip

palehozenychicty
06-18-2012, 11:36 PM
They were built to win every year up until the end of 2008, that's when Kenny started his "rebuilding on the fly" program that lasted until July when he went out and got Peavy and Rios. Then it was back to "all in." This year was supposed to be another rebuilding effort but we will see if he sticks with it or goes out and gets another high priced veteran. Personally I think they are best served standing pat and seeing where they are in July.

The second wild card is holding a lot of teams back right now. Even if they stand pat, I think that slot comes out of the East or West. It'll probably be either the Angels or Rays.

The division is our only shot. Can the arms give them a chance?

JB98
06-18-2012, 11:38 PM
Let's start Thornton.

Honestly, they could have thrown Santiago tonight if they wanted to give a reliever a spot start.

WhiteSox5187
06-18-2012, 11:39 PM
The second wild card is holding a lot of teams back right now. Even if they stand pat, I think that slot comes out of the East or West. It'll probably be either the Angels or Rays.

The division is our only shot. Can the arms give them a chance?

I think by July they will know if they have a shot at the division. It looks like the Tigers are starting to come together a bit and it could be that they are in first place come the trading deadline. If I were GM I would wait until the deadline and have plans for either buying or selling but I suspect that if the Sox are around .500 and within five games of first place they will be buying. And given Kenny's track record of late that is a scary proposition.

DrCrawdad
06-18-2012, 11:41 PM
Had basically no hope that they would win this game when it was announced stewart would go against garza.......hate games like this

Maybe this could help Stewart for his future.
http://www.charlottesgotalot.com/

I understand in a way the rotation shuffle but as someone said the Cubs are terrible against LH starters (and terrible in general, I know) but how about the Sox call up Charles Leesman for a spot start?

As it was said in this discussion, you've been on a downward spiral lately, tossing Zach Stewart in for a start was a guaranteed loss. Not a good decision.

palehozenychicty
06-18-2012, 11:43 PM
I think by July they will know if they have a shot at the division. It looks like the Tigers are starting to come together a bit and it could be that they are in first place come the trading deadline. If I were GM I would wait until the deadline and have plans for either buying or selling but I suspect that if the Sox are around .500 and within five games of first place they will be buying. And given Kenny's track record of late that is a scary proposition.

Indeed. This team does not look like a division winner.

Soxman219
06-18-2012, 11:43 PM
John Danks has a Grade 1 tear. No surgery but longer time before he returns, per Rongey.

:whiner:

PalehosePlanet
06-18-2012, 11:44 PM
Honestly, they could have thrown Santiago tonight if they wanted to give a reliever a spot start.

We should have brought up Charlie Leesman from Charlotte, if we payed attention to such things as stats.

DirtySox
06-18-2012, 11:45 PM
I suspect that if the Sox are around .500 and within five games of first place they will be buying. And given Kenny's track record of late that is a scary proposition.

Meh. The Sox don't have much of anything worthwhile to trade anyhow. Mitchell is the best piece they could move, and he still has significant contact issues. I suspect they will stand pat, but there isn't much on the farm that we should worry about being traded.

JB98
06-18-2012, 11:45 PM
We should have brought up Charlie Leesman from Charlotte, if we payed attention to such things as stats.

Or, they could have thrown Stewart yesterday, since they were essentially tanking the game with the Sunday lineup anyway. Then, Quintana starts today against the Cubs.

There are a lot of options for giving Peavy and Sale some extra rest. They picked one of the worst ones.

DrCrawdad
06-18-2012, 11:47 PM
We should have brought up Charlie Leesman from Charlotte, if we payed attention to such things as stats.

No, they wouldn't do that because of they probably either don't want to start Leesman's ML clock ticking or expose him but could it have been worse than starting Zach Stewart?

JB98
06-18-2012, 11:49 PM
No, they wouldn't do that because of they probably either don't want to start Leesman's ML clock ticking or expose him but could it have been worse than starting Zach Stewart?

They couldn't possibly have been worrying about that. He's hardly a big prospect.

Lip Man 1
06-18-2012, 11:50 PM
Palehose:

I forwarded you question on to Gonzo because I thought it was a legit one.

Here is his answer, take it for what it's worth. (and I assume he might have asked about this because his answer came back literally a few seconds after I sent it...)

"The Sox didn't want to make a move just for this game because it would start the "service time" clock on Leesman..."

Lip

Soxman219
06-18-2012, 11:52 PM
This blows, Danks is out for a while, team's free-falling, can't trust anyone on the mound anymore and even if they pitch well the bullpen can't hold leads. I stopped watching after 6-1, I had enough. If Stewart is not sent back down to Charlotte the time I wake up tomorrow then I will be severely disappointed.

PalehosePlanet
06-18-2012, 11:53 PM
Or, they could have thrown Stewart yesterday, since they were essentially tanking the game with the Sunday lineup anyway. Then, Quintana starts today against the Cubs.

There are a lot of options for giving Peavy and Sale some extra rest. They picked one of the worst ones.

Agreed. Instead of giving away two games you give away one.

Still though, as just a thought, why not bring up Leesman to start tomorrow (if he's within a day of his turn) send down Stewart and push back Jake one more day?

Won't happen, of course, but it's fun to be an armchair GM sometimes.

amsteel
06-18-2012, 11:54 PM
Or, they could have thrown Stewart yesterday, since they were essentially tanking the game with the Sunday lineup anyway. Then, Quintana starts today against the Cubs.

Boom. Roster mismanagement gave away 2 games instead of 1.

WhiteSox5187
06-18-2012, 11:57 PM
Palehose:

I forwarded you question on to Gonzo because I thought it was a legit one.

Here is his answer, take it for what it's worth. (and I assume he might have asked about this because his answer came back literally a few seconds after I sent it...)

"The Sox didn't want to make a move just for this game because it would start the "service time" clock on Leesman..."

Lip

Good to see the White Sox are once again bringing out the old "Fiscally Responsible" Banner!

guillensdisciple
06-19-2012, 12:04 AM
But yet they want us to pay huge amounts of money to watch them.

If the White Sox lose this series, I do believe that's a pretty good indicator of where we're headed.

Good teams rebound from a winning streak by winning series. We have sucked horribly and are hanging on to our .500 record because of that winning streak.

At this pace, we will be out of first place by next week and under .500 then too.

Shame, I thought we had the tools to win this thing. Our hitting does well when our pitching sucks, and vice versa. Can't win that way. Also, Robin really needs to learn how to manage better.

Noneck
06-19-2012, 12:04 AM
"The Sox didn't want to make a move just for this game because it would start the "service time" clock on Leesman..."



As I smile and shake my head, I am not at all surprised.

central44
06-19-2012, 12:18 AM
Am I the only one who expected to lose today? It was Stewart vs. Garza. You can't read too much into a mismatch like that. It would have been nice if the offense could have done more, but don't tell me that you would have been surprised to hear that Stewart was terrible tonight and the Cubs scored 10 runs.

The offense has had a few rough games lately, but this is still far from the corpseball of the last few years. The problems really come from two terrible starters and an inconsistent bullpen (and for all we know, the bullpen might just be overworked after the horrible displays from Floyd and Humber).

There was no way to predict that both Floyd and Humber would be this bad. The Sox need starting pitching help, badly. That said, getting a mediocre starter shouldn't be too difficult (and that's all the Sox really need, anyway--mediocre would be a big time upgrade from what Floyd and Humber have given us.)

Overall though, it's not that big of a deal. The problems are very fixable (one SP can make a world of difference for this team) and the division remains winnable with a lot of games to play. They weren't going to stay that hot all year but they can't afford to have 2 black holes in the rotation.

This was the game the Cubs had a chance to steal. I agree they should have punted yesterday with Stewart and started Quintana tonight, but what's done is done.

PalehosePlanet
06-19-2012, 12:19 AM
Palehose:

I forwarded you question on to Gonzo because I thought it was a legit one.

Here is his answer, take it for what it's worth. (and I assume he might have asked about this because his answer came back literally a few seconds after I sent it...)

"The Sox didn't want to make a move just for this game because it would start the "service time" clock on Leesman..."

Lip

Great...so what are we Tampa now, that we're worried that we won't be able to pay a guy 3 mil. a year in 2015?

That's a terrible answer from KW and co.

DSpivack
06-19-2012, 12:21 AM
As I smile and shake my head, I am not at all surprised.

Palehose:

I forwarded you question on to Gonzo because I thought it was a legit one.

Here is his answer, take it for what it's worth. (and I assume he might have asked about this because his answer came back literally a few seconds after I sent it...)

"The Sox didn't want to make a move just for this game because it would start the "service time" clock on Leesman..."

Lip

What an utter load of bull**** by Gonzales. Leesman is a 25-year old AAAA guy.

Soxman219
06-19-2012, 12:22 AM
Am I the only one who expected to lose today? It was Stewart vs. Garza. You can't read too much into a mismatch like that. It would have been nice if the offense could have done more, but don't tell me that you would have been surprised to hear that Stewart was terrible tonight and the Cubs scored 10 runs.

The offense has had a few rough games lately, but this is still far from the corpseball of the last few years. The problems really come from two terrible starters and an inconsistent bullpen (and for all we know, the bullpen might just be overworked after the horrible displays from Floyd and Humber).

There was no way to predict that both Floyd and Humber would be this bad. The Sox need starting pitching help, badly. That said, getting a mediocre starter shouldn't be too difficult (and that's all the Sox really need, anyway--mediocre would be a big time upgrade from what Floyd and Humber have given us.)

Overall though, it's not that big of a deal. The problems are very fixable (one SP can make a world of difference for this team) and the division remains winnable with a lot of games to play. They weren't going to stay that hot all year but they can't afford to have 2 black holes in the rotation.

This was the game the Cubs had a chance to steal. I agree they should have punted yesterday with Stewart and started Quintana tonight, but what's done is done.

When I heard Stewart was starting yesterday and the way the Sox have been playing, I expected the Sox to lose also.

WhiteSox5187
06-19-2012, 12:23 AM
What an utter load of bull**** by Gonzales. Leesman is a 25-year old AAAA guy.

Why is Gonzalez to blame if the Sox don't want to call a guy up? Is he making personnel decisions now?

Lip Man 1
06-19-2012, 12:26 AM
Spivak:

The impression I got, and this is just my thinking, was that the answer didn't come from Gonzo. He answered literally a few seconds after I sent him the question.

It sounds to me like he asked someone in the Sox organization about this area ahead of time and that was the answer he got.

Gonzo doesn't strike me as someone who pulls things out of his ass.

Lip

DSpivack
06-19-2012, 12:27 AM
Why is Gonzalez to blame if the Sox don't want to call a guy up? Is he making personnel decisions now?

Because I think it's a lazy and incorrect answer. It makes no sense. At the age of 25, Leesman can become a minor league FA soon, anyway, so I think (but am not exactly sure) that the service time comment makes absolutely zero sense. That applies to much younger and much more talented players whom you would like to hold on to for the full 6 seasons and avoid Super 2 arbitration, not a 25-year old who has never been quite good enough.

Lip Man 1
06-19-2012, 12:27 AM
Central:

I agree somewhat with your comments but it is a fact that Humber had a bad second half last year, there were warning signs. And Floyd's record the past three years speaks for itself no?

Lip

PalehosePlanet
06-19-2012, 12:28 AM
What an utter load of bull**** by Gonzales. Leesman is a 25-year old AAAA guy.

You don't know that yet. He has as good of stuff as Hector and much better stuff than Quintana. You're pissed at the answer as am I, but no need to rip on a kid who has yet to have a chance at the big league level.

At the very worst he could replace Ohman tomorrow and be a hell of a lot better.

DSpivack
06-19-2012, 12:28 AM
Spivak:

The impression I got, and this is just my thinking, was that the answer didn't come from Gonzo. He answered literally a few seconds after I sent him the question.

It sounds to me like he asked someone in the Sox organization about this area and that was the answer he got.

Gonzo doesn't strike me as someone who pulls things out of his ass.

Lip

Service time issues are for guys you expect to hold on to for 6 years and you don't want to start their arbitration clock too early. I really don't see how it applies to a 25-year old AAAA pitcher. Either he was pulling it out of his ass, or the person he asked is absolutely clueless.

DSpivack
06-19-2012, 12:30 AM
You don't know that yet. He has as good of stuff as Hector and much better stuff than Quintana. You're pissed at the answer as am I, but no need to rip on a kid who has yet to have a chance at the big league level.

At the very worst he could replace Ohman tomorrow and be a hell of a lot better.

That still doesn't make the service time comment logical at all. I don't have any opinion on Leesman, other than that he is a 25-year old pitcher who is not doing great in AAA who has never made the major leagues. My anger and confusion at the comment is directed at either Gonzales or whatever Sox official fed him a line of bull.

WhiteSox5187
06-19-2012, 12:30 AM
Service time issues are for guys you expect to hold on to for 6 years and you don't want to start their arbitration clock too early. I really don't see how it applies to a 25-year old AAAA pitcher. Either he was pulling it out of his ass, or the person he asked is absolutely clueless.

Well, if he asked someone in the Sox front office it's not impossible that that is the case.

Lip Man 1
06-19-2012, 12:30 AM
Spivak:

Again I don't think Gonzo pulls things out of his ass. The second part of your response seems more likely to me.

Lip

DSpivack
06-19-2012, 12:31 AM
Well, if he asked someone in the Sox front office it's not impossible that that is the case.

Spivak:

Again I don't think Gonzo pulls things out of his ass. The second part of your response seems more likely to me.

Lip

That's certainly a possibility that I didn't assume at first, and if that's the case than I was unfair to Gonzalez. I was just trying to pick apart the statement that made no sense to me.

Noneck
06-19-2012, 12:37 AM
Because I think it's a lazy and incorrect answer. It makes no sense. At the age of 25, Leesman can become a minor league FA soon, anyway, so I think (but am not exactly sure) that the service time comment makes absolutely zero sense. That applies to much younger and much more talented players whom you would like to hold on to for the full 6 seasons and avoid Super 2 arbitration, not a 25-year old who has never been quite good enough.

We have no idea what is in their future plans. Peavy and Floyd will be gone after this season. Humber is showing he is may not be a major leaguer, Danks suddenly has been on the DL twice this year, many say Sale doesnt have the mechanics to have a long career in the majors. Thats doesnt leave much for the future, Leesman as sad as it may be, may be considered a shinning star in their eyes.

PalehosePlanet
06-19-2012, 12:39 AM
That still doesn't make the service time comment logical at all. I don't have any opinion on Leesman, other than that he is a 25-year old pitcher who is not doing great in AAA who has never made the major leagues. My anger and confusion at the comment is directed at either Gonzales or whatever Sox official fed him a line of bull.

I agree that the answer is bull****, but don't get hung up on the fact that he's 25. His first year in our minors system (other than a coupe of games at the tail end of '08) was in 2009; he's not eligible for minor league free agency until 2015; and he's throwing at a 2.25 clip in 77 innings in this, his first, year at AAA.

DrCrawdad
06-19-2012, 12:48 AM
That still doesn't make the service time comment logical at all. I don't have any opinion on Leesman, other than that he is a 25-year old pitcher who is not doing great in AAA who has never made the major leagues. My anger and confusion at the comment is directed at either Gonzales or whatever Sox official fed him a line of bull.

I agree that the answer is bull****, but don't get hung up on the fact that he's 25. His first year in our minors system (other than a coupe of games at the tail end of '08) was in 2009; he's not eligible for minor league free agency until 2015; and he's throwing at a 2.25 clip in 77 innings in this, his first, year at AAA.

Thank you! I'm not starting a Charlie Leesman fanclub but let the facts speak for themselves. Leesman is doing very well this season in AAA. Is a 2.25 ERA in AAA great? Well it's much better than the 4.26 ERA that Zach Stewart had in his most recent stint in AAA.

And BTW Zach Stewart is one year older than Leesman.

DSpivack
06-19-2012, 12:54 AM
Thank you! I'm not starting a Charlie Leesman fanclub but let the facts speak for themselves. Leesman is doing very well this season in AAA. Is a 2.25 ERA in AAA great? Well it's much better than the 4.26 ERA that Zach Stewart had in his most recent stint in AAA.

And BTW Zach Stewart is one year older than Leesman.

I'm no fan of Stewart. If Leesman is doing so well in AAA, why not bring him up now? I don't give a crap about his service time.

BigKlu59
06-19-2012, 12:55 AM
Front office feeding lines of bull ? Say it aint obviously so, Joe !! These guys think the fan base is clueless and throw horse**** out for horse**** sake to cover up for the horse**** that the team has stepped on in the field..

Wow.. I knew there was a chance of a BP session tonite and I wasnt denied that horrid experience... Should have watched a rerun of Mel Allen and Home Run Derby instead... would have had the same effect..

I'm gonna go throw up now.. I hope they turn this thing around cause things are starting to get tight at the top. Another **** week and they could be looking up from 4th place..

BK59

DSpivack
06-19-2012, 12:56 AM
Front office feeding lines of bull ? Say it aint obviously so, Joe !! These guys think the fan base is clueless and throw horse**** out for horse**** sake to cover up for the horse**** that the team has stepped on in the field..

Wow.. I knew there was a chance of a BP session tonite and I wasnt denied that horrid experience... Should have watched a rerun of Mel Allen and Home Run Derby instead... would have had the same effect..

I'm gonna go throw up now.. I hope they turn this thing around cause things are starting to get tight at the top. Another **** week and they could be looking up from 4th place..

BK59

How about that!

WhiteSox5187
06-19-2012, 12:57 AM
I'm no fan of Stewart. If Leesman is doing so well in AAA, why not bring him up now? I don't give a crap about his service time.

Evidently the White Sox front office does though.

DSpivack
06-19-2012, 12:58 AM
Evidently the White Sox front office does though.

Or they're just blowing smoke up Gonzo's ass.

Tragg
06-19-2012, 01:04 AM
Honestly, they could have thrown Santiago tonight if they wanted to give a reliever a spot start.

Indeed. And he pitched as a starter for most of his minor league career. I kind of hope they work him back into the role. It think he has promise.

Stewart is just awful. There's no way that Sox Scouts came up with Stewart as who Williams should go after. If they did, they should be fired.

hawkjt
06-19-2012, 01:48 AM
Stewart was actually throwing harder tonite in the 4th inning than anytime lately out of the bullpen. He was bringing it at 93mph rather than 89mph out of the bullpen,but they hit him even harder as he threw harder.

I guess it goes back to command for Stewart and Floyd and Humber...their fastballs are right over the middle and high.

Jake throws about the same speed but seems to get away with it...I hope anyway.

Bad nite. This is misery. Must do better tomorrow nite,please.

DrCrawdad
06-19-2012, 02:17 AM
Stewart was actually throwing harder tonite in the 4th inning than anytime lately out of the bullpen. He was bringing it at 93mph rather than 89mph out of the bullpen,but they hit him even harder as he threw harder.

I guess it goes back to command for Stewart and Floyd and Humber...their fastballs are right over the middle and high.

Jake throws about the same speed but seems to get away with it...I hope anyway.

Bad nite. This is misery. Must do better tomorrow nite, please.

I think the difference is Jake's varying speed, movement and location.

wassagstdu
06-19-2012, 07:46 AM
No mention of Jones' role in this fiasco? To me that was the most disappointing aspect. His performance was worse than Stewart's or Ohman's.

russ99
06-19-2012, 08:07 AM
No mention of Jones' role in this fiasco? To me that was the most disappointing aspect. His performance was worse than Stewart's or Ohman's.

Two collapses in one week, not good...

But a rookie middle reliever who has had good outings and may be a bit overused should have more leeway than guys like Stewart and Ohman who aren't doing anything and should have been sent down or released weeks ago.

Time for Kenny to stop meddling with his manager and whining about attendance and find us a few arms for our rapidly imploding pitching staff.

Hartman
06-19-2012, 08:14 AM
This team, all of a sudden, has major pitching issues all the way around. Kenny needs to do something and fast...it doesn't have to be a blockbuster signing. A middle reliever might be all it takes.

A decision must be made on Humber or Floyd. If they can't decide who to give the boot, flip a coin.

SI1020
06-19-2012, 08:40 AM
How about that! I'm impressed.

Jollyroger2
06-19-2012, 08:45 AM
This team, all of a sudden, has major pitching issues all the way around. Kenny needs to do something and fast...it doesn't have to be a blockbuster signing. A middle reliever might be all it takes.

A decision must be made on Humber or Floyd. If they can't decide who to give the boot, flip a coin.

I don't think it's all that sudden. 3 of their 5 starters have been lousy for a long time. They aren't going anywhere with that.

October26
06-19-2012, 09:00 AM
Sometimes I wish I didn't care. Embarrassing.

+1

My sentiments exactly. I was going to text you last night to see how you were doing and decided against it. I figured you were in the same place I was. What a hideously awful game to watch! Hope the Sox got all of the "bad" out of their system yesterday and the day before and last week for that matter. I am still hoping that my two favorite Cuban players will step up and have a good series against the Cubs (after all the weather is as hot as it is in Havana right now). Alexei made a good play with the glove, but that was about it. Oh, and Adam Dunn, please keep hitting home runs so that DumpJerry can win his bet. :tongue:

Seriously, the Sox need a good game from Peavy tonite and need to get a win.

slavko
06-19-2012, 09:52 AM
No mention of Jones' role in this fiasco? To me that was the most disappointing aspect. His performance was worse than Stewart's or Ohman's.

I noticed it for sure this morning. Not at the time it happened because I gave up on the game earlier. But because I love the guy's stuff. Well, what's left to like?

Garza'a a helluva pitcher and Stewart is what you all said, but we were betting favorites in the game. I don't bet, too bad.

Hitmen77
06-19-2012, 10:13 AM
Kenny Williams trades - the gifts that keep on giving.

This trade is essentially Daniel Hudson for Zack Stewart for the Sox. I'm not saying Hudson is anything close to an all-star, but he's not nearly as terrible as Stewart.

For Kenny, that trade with Toronto was as much about dumping the awful contract extension he gave to Mark Teahen as it was getting anyone of significant talent for Edwin Jackson.

DeadMoney
06-19-2012, 11:00 AM
I'm going to go ahead and set the O/U on Stewart's time on the 25-man roster at 5 hours (or at least news breaking about it).

With Axelrod scheduled to start tonight in Charlotte, and a serious need for another arm (assuming Santiago/Jones/Stewart are all unavailable), I have to figure Axelrod will be scratched and heading to the bullpen tonight.

hawkjt
06-19-2012, 11:01 AM
This trade is essentially Daniel Hudson for Zack Stewart for the Sox. I'm not saying Hudson is anything close to an all-star, but he's not nearly as terrible as Stewart.

For Kenny, that trade with Toronto was as much about dumping the awful contract extension he gave to Mark Teahen as it was getting anyone of significant talent for Edwin Jackson.

The Sox got a year of good pitching out of Edwin Jackson in this trade also,that is not nothing.
Hudson has an ERA of 5.76 in a pitchers ballpark in Zona,in the inferior league with no DH. These trades are not an exact science.

sox1970
06-19-2012, 11:06 AM
The Sox got a year of good pitching out of Edwin Jackson in this trade also,that is not nothing.
Hudson has an ERA of 5.76 in a pitchers ballpark in Zona,in the inferior league with no DH. These trades are not an exact science.

*cough*Holmberg*cough*

kittle42
06-19-2012, 11:09 AM
Hudson has an ERA of 5.76 in a pitchers ballpark in Zona,in the inferior league with no DH. These trades are not an exact science.

This ignores what Hudson did last year and the fact that he has been injured most of this one.

hawkjt
06-19-2012, 11:22 AM
This ignores what Hudson did last year and the fact that he has been injured most of this one.


Hudson had a good year last year. So did Humber.
I am not saying that Kenny is perfect,far from it.
When he ''goes for it'' most fans are on board.
Then they turn on him later.

Maybe they should have fired him and gone for a Theo,who will start from scratch,and have the worst record in baseball for a couple of years,and then the critics will be happy,finally.

DrCrawdad
06-19-2012, 11:27 AM
The Sox got a year of good pitching out of Edwin Jackson in this trade also,that is not nothing.
Hudson has an ERA of 5.76 in a pitchers ballpark in Zona,in the inferior league with no DH. These trades are not an exact science.

This ignores what Hudson did last year and the fact that he has been injured most of this one.

I looked earlier and IIRC Hudson's numbers are hurt this season by a couple very short, very bad starts. But outside of those he's been fine.

Lip Man 1
06-19-2012, 12:41 PM
Hawk:

Humber had a very good first half last season. His second half was not that good at all was it?

Lip

Chez
06-19-2012, 01:14 PM
I'm going to go ahead and set the O/U on Stewart's time on the 25-man roster at 5 hours (or at least news breaking about it).

With Axelrod scheduled to start tonight in Charlotte, and a serious need for another arm (assuming Santiago/Jones/Stewart are all unavailable), I have to figure Axelrod will be scratched and heading to the bullpen tonight.

I agree that we'll likely see a roster move before tonight's game. I hope it's not Axlerod. I've been underwhelmed by him.

oldgrouch
06-19-2012, 06:35 PM
Boy, would this guy look good in the rotation right now? KW should have been
fired over this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gio_Gonzalez

Boondock Saint
06-19-2012, 06:44 PM
Boy, would this guy look good in the rotation right now? KW should have been
fired over this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gio_Gonzalez

Christ, the hindsight of some people here must be crippling. Where were the cries for KW's head when no-doubter, super-megastar Gio was traded the first time for Jim Thome?

If trading him was such a big ****ing deal, why did Philly trade him away for Freddy ****ing Garcia?

WhiteSox5187
06-19-2012, 07:17 PM
Christ, the hindsight of some people here must be crippling. Where were the cries for KW's head when no-doubter, super-megastar Gio was traded the first time for Jim Thome?

If trading him was such a big ****ing deal, why did Philly trade him away for Freddy ****ing Garcia?

Nobody made a big deal about the first time we traded Gio because we were getting a future Hall of Famer in the deal and because Rowand was the center piece of that deal, not Gio. I suppose the Phillies probably felt comfortable trading Gio for Freddy because he had a rough year in AA for them.