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View Full Version : *Official* 6/15 Matt's Turn to Crap the Bed Postgame Thread


thomas35forever
06-16-2012, 01:16 AM
Matt, your best days with us are behind you. Time for you to be on a leash.

SoxSpeed22
06-16-2012, 01:18 AM
All those things we did to win games earlier, we haven't been doing them lately. At least the offense is getting better.

DrCrawdad
06-16-2012, 01:18 AM
Matt, your best days with us are behind you. Time for you to be on a leash.

0-2 single
walk runner into scoring position
get the runner home on wild pitch

As I asked in the game thread, is Matt Thornton in debt to gamblers?

PushinWeight
06-16-2012, 01:20 AM
Right now the AL Central Champ looks like it will be the team that sucks the least. They are going to have to add a whole lot more wild card teams before this White Sox team makes the playoffs, 1st place in June be damned.

WhiteSox5187
06-16-2012, 01:20 AM
I think that this team had a real good month of May and is otherwise a fairly mediocre ball club. I noticed on MLB Network that right before the pitch AJ went to the mound and was rather adamantly motioning to the dugout, I was wondering if AJ thought there was an injury or something else wrong with Thornton. It sucks to lose a game where you score six runs off of Clayton Kershaw but, oh well.

fram40
06-16-2012, 01:21 AM
Crain sucked tonight also.

But the wild pitch was just horrendous. Very disappointing game. I hope Humber steps up later on tonight

SephClone89
06-16-2012, 01:21 AM
Matt, your best days with us are behind you. Time for you to be on a leash.

Be on a leash? Huh?

LoveYourSuit
06-16-2012, 01:22 AM
Sox have major pitching issues. With a streaky offense, this is not looking good.

WhiteSox5187
06-16-2012, 01:22 AM
0-2 single
walk runner into scoring position
get the runner home on wild pitch

As I asked in the game thread, is Matt Thornton in debt to gamblers?

It seems like the shelf life of a good reliever is about three years (with some obvious exceptions) and Thornton has gone past that and is 35 years old. Simple as that.

supportsox
06-16-2012, 01:23 AM
I guess it's time to send him down to the minors, too. Fire Cooper!

On another note, why is it now whenever anybody makes a mistake it has to be "crap the bed"? Whatever happened to just screwing up? Can't anybody describe failure without invoking soiling sheets or projectile vomiting?

Lip Man 1
06-16-2012, 01:23 AM
Eight losses in the past 13 games. Another one run loss.

Pitching staff looks to be in disarray...not good at this point.

Lip

LoveYourSuit
06-16-2012, 01:24 AM
Crain sucked tonight also.

But the wild pitch was just horrendous. Very disappointing game. I hope Humber steps up later on tonight

Anyone else disappointed at AJ's pitch calling? Plus his half ass effort to block balls?

GoGoCrede
06-16-2012, 01:24 AM
I guess it's time to send him down to the minors, too. Fire Cooper!

On another note, why is it now whenever anybody makes a mistake it has to be "crap the bed"? Whatever happened to just screwing up? Can't anybody describe failure without invoking soiling sheets or projectile vomiting?


It's only marginally better than "pissing their pants," I suppose (I don't like either phrase).

LoveYourSuit
06-16-2012, 01:26 AM
It seems like the shelf life of a good reliever is about three years (with some obvious exceptions) and Thornton has gone past that and is 35 years old. Simple as that.

Matt has not been the same pitcher since getting rocked at the ASG in ANA.

Noneck
06-16-2012, 01:27 AM
They have to start winning some of these close games. A .500 road trip will be real tough now.

WhiteSox5187
06-16-2012, 01:28 AM
Anyone else disappointed at AJ's pitch calling? Plus his half ass effort to block balls?

I don't think the problem has been AJ's pitch calling, it doesn't matter what he has Floyd or Humber throw it seems to get hit HARD and tonight he called for an 0-2 fastball on Abreu up and in. Thornton's best pitch is his fastball and that's a pretty good location generally, the problem was Thornton threw it 58 feet. As for AJ's effort in blocking, I think that is a side effect of having a catcher with 35 year old knees. I would also say that I don't think that Flowers is that much better at blocking either. The Sox have a problem when they address who is their catcher next year.

Noneck
06-16-2012, 01:30 AM
Anyone else disappointed at AJ's pitch calling?

You sure hes doing the calling, not the dugout?

Nellie_Fox
06-16-2012, 01:30 AM
I guess it's time to send him down to the minors, too. Fire Cooper!

On another note, why is it now whenever anybody makes a mistake it has to be "crap the bed"? Whatever happened to just screwing up? Can't anybody describe failure without invoking soiling sheets or projectile vomiting?
Because it just sounds so much tougher and more angry about it if everything you say includes vulgarity.

supportsox
06-16-2012, 01:31 AM
I think that this team had a real good month of May and is otherwise a fairly mediocre ball club .



Before tonight, we had the league leader in ERA and WHIP, with another top 5 in WHIP. We still have the BA and HR leaders. I think "fairly mediocre" is a harsh assessment.

Noneck
06-16-2012, 01:33 AM
The Sox have a problem when they address who is their catcher next year.

AJ's a FA next year and said he wants one more good contract, if thats with the Sox they will have to go quite far this year.

WhiteSox5187
06-16-2012, 01:34 AM
Matt has not been the same pitcher since getting rocked at the ASG in SF.

He made the ASG in Anaheim not in SF :redneck

As I recall he also hurt his shoulder in the second half of 2010 right around the time he gave up that walk off homer to Thome which was also around the time that Putz got hurt after he blew a save against Detroit. The bullpen fell apart as did our season. You're right though, Thornton hasn't been the same since then.

WhiteSox5187
06-16-2012, 01:38 AM
Before tonight, we had the league leader in ERA and WHIP, with another top 5 in WHIP. We still have the BA and HR leaders. I think "fairly mediocre" is a harsh assessment.

We are a mediocre team with some guys who are having great years. Paul Konerko is great, Dunn is having a fantastic year as well, so is De Aza. But we are streaky in left field and right (though Rios is turning around in June) and mediocre to below average at short, second and third. Peavy and Sale are having great years in the rotation but everyone else is bad. The whole damned bullpen seems to be a question mark right now. So I would say that as a team mediocre is currently a fair assessment. As a team the White Sox had a great month of May and they could very well go out on another streak but I am still not sold that they are much better than mediocre.

pmck003
06-16-2012, 01:40 AM
First year in a long time the Sox have had a tough NL go - bad sp vs. the Astros and two great teams on the road. Rough loss but some positives in the offense and fielding. Hopefully take one here and keep a good spirit. Start winning at home vs. Cubs and Brewers.

WhiteSox5187
06-16-2012, 01:41 AM
You sure hes doing the calling, not the dugout?

It's hard to say with 100% certainty but usually he is calling the pitches, I don't see him looking to the dugout very often if at all. Maybe in certain spots the dugout calls the pitches but I suspect that AJ knows the pitching staff well enough that the coaches would trust him to call what he sees fit.

WhiteSox5187
06-16-2012, 01:44 AM
AJ's a FA next year and said he wants one more good contract, if thats with the Sox they will have to go quite far this year.

Perhaps this is a discussion for another thread but I don't know what the market would be for a catcher who will be 36 next year. I know he is having a nice year offensively but I have a hard time seeing any team giving him more than two years. I still think he is the White Sox best option for catcher for the foreseeable future.

pmck003
06-16-2012, 01:46 AM
We are a mediocre team with some guys who are having great years. Paul Konerko is great, Dunn is having a fantastic year as well, so is De Aza. But we are streaky in left field and right (though Rios is turning around in June) and mediocre to below average at short, second and third. Peavy and Sale are having great years in the rotation but everyone else is bad. The whole damned bullpen seems to be a question mark right now. So I would say that as a team mediocre is currently a fair assessment. As a team the White Sox had a great month of May and they could very well go out on another streak but I am still not sold that they are much better than mediocre.

I'd say the Rangers are a step above, but who else is "great"? Dodgers?

WhiteSox5187
06-16-2012, 01:51 AM
I'd say the Rangers are a step above, but who else is "great"? Dodgers?

There aren't many "great" teams right now. Even the Rangers have been struggling of late. Some "good" teams that come to my mind would be the Rangers, the Rays, the Reds, the Yankees, the Nationals (which is weird to say). Maybe the Orioles belong on that list too but I don't follow them that often and I am just not convinced that they are for real. To me the White Sox seem to be a fairly mediocre team but mediocre might be good enough to win the Central this year.

Soxman219
06-16-2012, 01:52 AM
I saw we were up 5-1 only to lose again. This blows.

LongLiveFisk
06-16-2012, 01:53 AM
So much for that interleague dominance. :shakehead:

This sucks.

Jollyroger2
06-16-2012, 02:03 AM
Before tonight, we had the league leader in ERA and WHIP, with another top 5 in WHIP. We still have the BA and HR leaders. I think "fairly mediocre" is a harsh assessment.

No it's not, it's pretty much spot-on. 3 of their 5 starters have ERAs over 5. They aren't going anywhere unless that radically improves. Some people on offense are having unusually outstanding seasons, or at least Mays and Junes. They've lost two games though this week with their better starters up.

They also are finding ways to lose.

PalehosePlanet
06-16-2012, 02:06 AM
We're in a slump, having lost 7 of 10 now, and games like this happen when that's the case, especially when playing a hot team like The Dodgers. After a hot streak this is what usually happens.

No need to panic, we'll start playing better soon. Earlier in the year we went on 7-15 skid; hopefully this one is a lot shorter.

CoopaLoop
06-16-2012, 02:07 AM
Put up 5 on Kershaw with Sale on the hill and you lose. Ouch.

Worst loss of the season.

palehozenychicty
06-16-2012, 02:17 AM
Just looked at the stats. Tough game to lose through a bad pen performance. You turn the page and keep it moving.

amsteel
06-16-2012, 03:26 AM
The 2003 Brewers won 10 games in a row. They also finished 26 games under 0.500.

Extended winning streaks aren't exclusive to good teams. We're back where we were at in April. If the starting pitching and offense is good, the relief pitching sucks. IF the pitching is good the offense doesn't show up. Etc, etc.

This team hasn't progressed at all since the start of the season. The ticket prices are dynamic, but the product on the field sure as hell isn't.

JB98
06-16-2012, 03:28 AM
When your No. 1 starter and one of your most consistent relievers combine to cough up a four-run lead in one inning, well, what can you say? That's a sure sign your team is in a funk. It's been hard to watch the last week or 10 days, and we just have to hope the Sox can minimize this losing streak.

The walk Thornton issued to a left-handed slap hitter bothers me far more than the wild pitch. Walks lose games.

LITTLE NELL
06-16-2012, 06:31 AM
We just have to win when Sale and Peavy are out there and also maybe Quintana. With Floyd and Humber acting like Home Run Derby pitchers and with Danks still hurting we will not be contenders much longer. At the beginning of the year we all thought that we had from 1 to 5 the best staff in the Majors, how things change.

kufram
06-16-2012, 07:27 AM
We just have to win when Sale and Peavy are out there and also maybe Quintana. With Floyd and Humber acting like Home Run Derby pitchers and with Danks still hurting we will not be contenders much longer. At the beginning of the year we all thought that we had from 1 to 5 the best staff in the Majors, how things change.

The pitching has been a problem of late but the chances are it will turn a corner hopefully sooner than later. At least the offense showed positive signs.

veeter
06-16-2012, 07:50 AM
Anyone else disappointed at AJ's pitch calling? Plus his half ass effort to block balls?Bingo!!! This game was lost on Hudson's piss poor effort on Uribe's double and AJ's horrible pitch call to Herrera. Crane got beat on his curve ball. Thornton's pitch sucked but again AJ tried to backhand it.

TomBradley72
06-16-2012, 09:08 AM
The story of this team is pitching.

10th in the AL for team ERA in May, 12th in June- outside of a few guys (Sale, Peavy, Jones, Crain, maybe Reed)- no one has been consistently reliable- and 2 of those guys were off last night. A few have been completely horrible- Humber, Floyd, Ohmann, Stewart. We let two of our best 2011 arms go in the offseason (Buehrle and Santos) with nothing in return at the major league level. Then losing Danks for an extended period on top of that.

In June the Sox are #4 runs scored as a team, we were #2 in May- there may be an off night he and there but overall- our best offense since probably 2006.

We're #3 in team fielding.

We're becoming the 1977 Southside Hitmen (great offense, sketchy pitching) but with good defense, fundamentals, and better uniforms.

I gotta give AJ a break- he's a 35 y.o. catcher who has logged alot of miles- and he's #3 in the league after Wieters and Mauer in innings caught (he also has the #1 OPS of any starting catcher).

By the way Adam Dunn is on pace to hit 58 home runs this year-

SCCWS
06-16-2012, 09:36 AM
Just looked at the stats. Tough game to lose through a bad pen performance. You turn the page and keep it moving.


HUH???? When your starter gives up 5 runs in 5.2 and the final score is 7-6, the starter was the main problem. The bullpen was not effective either but staking Sale to a big lead should have been enough. The kid has been outstanding overall, he just had a bad outing.

oldgrouch
06-16-2012, 09:39 AM
The story of this team is pitching.

10th in the AL for team ERA in May, 12th in June- outside of a few guys (Sale, Peavy, Jones, Crain, maybe Reed)- no one has been consistently reliable- and 2 of those guys were off last night. A few have been completely horrible- Humber, Floyd, Ohmann, Stewart. We let two of our best 2011 arms go in the offseason (Buehrle and Santos) with nothing in return at the major league level. Then losing Danks for an extended period on top of that.

In June the Sox are #4 runs scored as a team, we were #2 in May- there may be an off night he and there but overall- our best offense since probably 2006.

We're #3 in team fielding.

We're becoming the 1977 Southside Hitmen (great offense, sketchy pitching) but with good defense, fundamentals, and better uniforms.

I gotta give AJ a break- he's a 35 y.o. catcher who has logged alot of miles- and he's #3 in the league after Wieters and Mauer in innings caught (he also has the #1 OPS of any starting catcher).

By the way Adam Dunn is on pace to hit 58 home runs this year-

Buehrle and Santos aren't doing much this year, IIRC.

kevingrt
06-16-2012, 09:44 AM
Bingo!!! This game was lost on Hudson's piss poor effort on Uribe's double and AJ's horrible pitch call to Herrera. Crane got beat on his curve ball. Thornton's pitch sucked but again AJ tried to backhand it.

I thought AJ's (or Coop's) pitch selection was horrible all night. Sale obviously had no semblance of a breaking ball and was hanging it every other pitch yet they continued to call for the pitch. This isn't some great hitting Dodger line-up and Sale definitely could have gotten many of these guys out by locating his fastball, which he had been doing throughout the night.

Second most frustrating game of the year next to the Wednesday matinee debacle in Oakland earlier this year.

doublem23
06-16-2012, 09:53 AM
Matt, your best days with us are behind you. Time for you to be on a leash.

I fail to see how this loss is on anyone other than Sale

tstrike2000
06-16-2012, 09:55 AM
The Sox were up 5-1 when I conked out. Guess I fell asleep at the right time. After Rios' first bomb, I wrongly assumed we were in control. One really bad inning for Sale did him in. Sox are now 3-7 over their last ten with a bad back-end to the rotation. Unfortunately, Danks' return as been pushed back. We really need to salvage something this series and not let the Scrubs continue this next week.

Frater Perdurabo
06-16-2012, 09:59 AM
An occasional bad game by Sale, or a 1-0 loss by Peavy, are more acceptable in context if the other two veterans in the rotation were at least average.

Just because Sale didn't have a great game doesn't mean Floyd and Humber, and much of the pen, haven't stunk.

Golden Sox
06-16-2012, 10:05 AM
Famous author Tom Wolfe once said You can't go home again". Theres been all over these posts that the White Sox should trade Floyd for Kevin Youkilas. It doesn't look like that's going to happen. Why not bring back Juan Uribe and put him at third base. He played 3rd for us the September of 2008 and helped us get into the playoffs that year. He would be an upgrade over Hudson at third base. In the Dodgers half of the eighth inning last night Hudson missed an ordinary groundball that went for a single. Hudson simply isn't a third baseman. Even tho Uribe is better at shortstop he has certainly performed better at third base than anybody the White Sox have now.

SI1020
06-16-2012, 10:05 AM
I guess it's time to send him down to the minors, too. Fire Cooper!

On another note, why is it now whenever anybody makes a mistake it has to be "crap the bed"? Whatever happened to just screwing up? Can't anybody describe failure without invoking soiling sheets or projectile vomiting?
I'm hardly a prude but it's all so middle school juvenile.

Tragg
06-16-2012, 10:07 AM
We've been slumping for 2 weeks. The good news is that we haven't been swept, so we've kept the damage to a minimum. Let's keep it that way.

veeter
06-16-2012, 10:16 AM
I fail to see how this loss is on anyone other than SaleSale struggled, no doubt. But Hudson HAS to stop that ball. He got cute. He could have easliy knocked that down and stepped on third. Different inning if he does that. He needs to be released. Escobar could give you all that he does and more.

russ99
06-16-2012, 10:33 AM
This is a good learning experience for Sale.

When his backdoor pitch (that sets up all his other pitches) was getting less effective, and he was having trouble throwing it for strikes, he didn't adapt, but kept throwing his other pitches in hittable areas in pitcher-friendly counts.

That slider is a heck of a pitch. But he needs to be able to rely on his other pitches and throw them for strikes in less hittable areas at times, when the slider isn't doing what he wants it to do.

Also, sometimes your bullpen guys don't have it. Tomorrow is another day and Crane and Thornton are still good setup guys.

hawkjt
06-16-2012, 11:05 AM
I question Robin taking out Sale(a lefty) to have Crain(righty) face the lefty batter with two outs,up 5-3. I think Sale still has a better chance to get him out than Crain or any righty. If Sale gets that out, Sox probably win the game.

Crain and Thornton clearly let Sale down,I don't care how bad Sale was...Crain comes in and gives up a double and single with two out? Not good,not what you expect from your top righty.

Rains it pours,I guess. Thornton seems to be unable to locate vs lefties this year. Then he chokes away a game with wild pitch.
The vets in the bullpen have been disappointing this year.
Ohman,Crain and Thornton make the big bucks,but have not produced.

Alex was incredible last nite. All over those pitches.

Just a tough stretch for the Sox...Cards and Dodgers back to back on the road is not fun.

sox1970
06-16-2012, 11:19 AM
I question Robin taking out Sale(a lefty) to have Crain(righty) face the lefty batter with two outs,up 5-3. I think Sale still has a better chance to get him out than Crain or any righty. If Sale gets that out, Sox probably win the game.

Crain and Thornton clearly let Sale down,I don't care how bad Sale was...Crain comes in and gives up a double and single with two out? Not good,not what you expect from your top righty.

Rains it pours,I guess. Thornton seems to be unable to locate vs lefties this year. Then he chokes away a game with wild pitch.
The vets in the bullpen have been disappointing this year.
Ohman,Crain and Thornton make the big bucks,but have not produced.

Alex was incredible last nite. All over those pitches.

Just a tough stretch for the Sox...Cards and Dodgers back to back on the road is not fun.

This week scared me. If they went 6-3 at home instead of 4-5, then a 2-4 week in St. Louis and LA wouldn't have been that bad.

shingo10
06-16-2012, 11:50 AM
Maybe all the pitchers were nervous that Kenny was sitting behind the plate...

I guess I'll take a positive spin on this (or try to) and say that I'd rather struggle against the NL this year if it means the Sox will beat AL teams in the second half of the season unlike the previous 6 years.

Can't count on Sale and Peavy to be an ace EVERY time. It'd be easier to pick them up if the bullpen wasn't always working overtime when Floyd and Humber pitch. But Humber back on the west coast is gonna mean good things I hope. This Sox team has shown itself to be resilient so hopefully they come back strong.

Tragg
06-16-2012, 11:50 AM
The game also showed Thornton's value....other than the WP, he pitched out of the jam. And he's pretty much the best reliever we have at getting a key K and pitching us out of jams, although he's getting inconsistent.

TomBradley72
06-16-2012, 12:00 PM
I question Robin taking out Sale(a lefty) to have Crain(righty) face the lefty batter with two outs,up 5-3. I think Sale still has a better chance to get him out than Crain or any righty. If Sale gets that out, Sox probably win the game.

Crain and Thornton clearly let Sale down,I don't care how bad Sale was...Crain comes in and gives up a double and single with two out? Not good,not what you expect from your top righty.

Rains it pours,I guess. Thornton seems to be unable to locate vs lefties this year. Then he chokes away a game with wild pitch.
The vets in the bullpen have been disappointing this year.
Ohman,Crain and Thornton make the big bucks,but have not produced.

Alex was incredible last nite. All over those pitches.

Just a tough stretch for the Sox...Cards and Dodgers back to back on the road is not fun.

Crain has a 2.29 ERA this year- but you're right- lefties are hitting .303 off Crain this year-but Sale was at 107 pitches in the 6th inning- so Robin was in a rough spot at that point.

#1swisher
06-16-2012, 12:59 PM
Postgame video of Sale

http://www.chicagotribune.com/videogallery/70495364/Sports/Video-Sox-starter-Sale-I-was-all-over-the-place

PalehosePlanet
06-16-2012, 01:14 PM
Famous author Tom Wolfe once said You can't go home again". Theres been all over these posts that the White Sox should trade Floyd for Kevin Youkilas. It doesn't look like that's going to happen. Why not bring back Juan Uribe and put him at third base. He played 3rd for us the September of 2008 and helped us get into the playoffs that year. He would be an upgrade over Hudson at third base. In the Dodgers half of the eighth inning last night Hudson missed an ordinary groundball that went for a single. Hudson simply isn't a third baseman. Even tho Uribe is better at shortstop he has certainly performed better at third base than anybody the White Sox have now.

The Dodgers have the best record in baseball, why would they trade away Uribe now? He can play anywhere in the infield and has performed well in the postseason with us and The Giants. It makes no sense for The Dodgers to trade him away.

kufram
06-16-2012, 02:32 PM
I guess it's time to send him down to the minors, too. Fire Cooper!

On another note, why is it now whenever anybody makes a mistake it has to be "crap the bed"? Whatever happened to just screwing up? Can't anybody describe failure without invoking soiling sheets or projectile vomiting?


It's only marginally better than "pissing their pants," I suppose (I don't like either phrase).

Because it just sounds so much tougher and more angry about it if everything you say includes vulgarity.

I'm hardly a prude but it's all so middle school juvenile.


I sometimes wonder about the maturity of some posters because of the language and usage and just inane outbursts. But that might just be me being old. What I put down on the record, even under the persona of an anonymous internet alter ego, needs to be thought out and not embarrassing to me.... after all, we all know that every word you type is on file with several government agencies. I was going to teal that but there is some truth to it.

Maybe juvenile is the new sophisticated.

#1swisher
06-16-2012, 02:55 PM
Video of Beckhams catch!
EDIT: ESPN, Top 10 plays from Friday, comes in at #6.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=22325899&topic_id=11493214&partnerId=aw-6489096783968467160-996

TaylorStSox
06-16-2012, 04:39 PM
The pitch calling is coming from the catcher. AJ and Flowers call a game much differently.

Sox
06-16-2012, 09:40 PM
Postgame video of Sale

http://www.chicagotribune.com/videogallery/70495364/Sports/Video-Sox-starter-Sale-I-was-all-over-the-place

Hats off to Chris for being brutally honest about his performance in that game.

Hitmen77
06-17-2012, 02:51 PM
On another note, why is it now whenever anybody makes a mistake it has to be "crap the bed"? Whatever happened to just screwing up? Can't anybody describe failure without invoking soiling sheets or projectile vomiting?


Thank you! I totally agree.