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TheOldRoman
06-13-2012, 11:28 AM
I don't know whether the Sox have talked about it or not, but I think using a six-man rotation might be a good idea for a month or so. I say that not because of of a desire to keep Quintana in the rotation (although he has certainly earned that right), but because I think more rest might help the other pitchers. Peavy has been great all year, but we all know his past health issues and I feel it wouldn't hurt to give him an extra day off each time around. It's pretty much the same with Danks, Floyd and Humber.

For me, the reason for going to a six-man rotation would be to help preserve Chris Sale. He has already pitched more innings than last year, and should be around 160 innings in early to mid August. He has pitched as a starter in college and high school, but the seasons aren't nearly as long. We have all heard the possible drop-offs for young pitchers who make huge jumps in innings (30 more than the previous year). The Nationals said coming into the season that Stephen Strasburg will be shut down at 160 innings. They may have backed themselves into the corner as it looks like they are in a pennant race. I don't know if they will have the balls to fold up tents on the season and shut him down in early August if they are.

Now, the Sox haven't come out and stated a set limit on Sale, but I imagine they would like to keep him as close to 160 innings as possible. They might shut him down in August in other years, but not if they are competing and he is pitching as well as he has been. The other concern is whether or not he will wear down as the season goes on. Going to a six-man rotation for the rest of the year would be the difference between Sale getting 20 more starts or 17, saving him approximately 20 innings. However, it would also mean six less times that Peavy or Sale take the mound. Using it for a month or so would only save Sale two to three starts, but it might keep him a little fresher towards the end of the season.

tstrike2000
06-13-2012, 11:35 AM
Health is definitely a concern for Peavy and Sale, so a rotation of six makes sense. The only problem is Humber shouldn't be in the rotation right now.

FoulTerritory
06-13-2012, 11:46 AM
Health is definitely a concern for Peavy and Sale, so a rotation of six makes sense. The only problem is Humber shouldn't be in the rotation right now.

I agree with this. A six man rotation is really only a viable option if you have six minimally functional pitchers. Currently, Humber and Floyd are almost automatic losses (unless the offense goes crazy in their starts).

Indeed, a six man rotation might be ideal given the health concerns of Sale and Peavy, but you can't have any rotation with two pitchers going as bad as Humber and Floyd and hope to win a division. One of those guys needs to go to the pen and work their **** out.

nug0hs
06-13-2012, 11:56 AM
I'm fully on board with a 6 man rotation. That 6th guy could be used in long relief for blowouts or spot starts if needed.

LITTLE NELL
06-13-2012, 12:13 PM
Not a bad idea if we had 6 reliable starters but we don't. I'm counting on Danks getting back to form but right now Floyd and Humber are nothing more than very good batting practice pitchers.

kittle42
06-13-2012, 12:15 PM
Really not viable when one of your starters is as bad as Humber.

Actually, in today's game, rarely viable at all, though I know the Sox recently tried it for a short time.

delben91
06-13-2012, 12:16 PM
Not a bad idea if we had 6 reliable starters but we don't. I'm counting on Danks getting back to form but right now Floyd and Humber are nothing more than very good batting practice pitchers.

Yep. Short of something more drastic (brining up Axelrod and dumping both Floyd and Humber in the pen or AAA), one of Floyd or Humber is still going to have to run out there every 5 games.

Floyd at least has the history of following months of terrible starts with months of great ones, so I'd rather keep him in the rotation and find a home for Humber in the pen.

LITTLE NELL
06-13-2012, 12:26 PM
Yep. Short of something more drastic (brining up Axelrod and dumping both Floyd and Humber in the pen or AAA), one of Floyd or Humber is still going to have to run out there every 5 games.

Floyd at least has the history of following months of terrible starts with months of great ones, so I'd rather keep him in the rotation and find a home for Humber in the pen.

Without a trade it looks like thats the way we should be going, put Humber in the pen and send Stewart down to the farm.

Lip Man 1
06-13-2012, 12:32 PM
Trades will start happening in about a month so we'll see how the Sox play it.

Till then in my opinion, Q is in the rotation, Humber goes to the pen for spot starting / long relief until (or unless) he figures it out.

Lip

Noneck
06-13-2012, 12:33 PM
If this helps the Sox franchise player (Sale) it may be worth a shot. But on the other hand when the second half rolls around I would like the Sox to ride Peavy like a $3500 claimer. Get whatever is left in his tank.

Many here have given up on Floyd and Humber. Both in the last outing had 9 K's in 6 or less innings. To me that means these guys still have something, yes they groove some meatballs and have control issues but you still have to have good stuff to get those strikeouts.

russ99
06-13-2012, 01:32 PM
A bit torn on the idea, but it wouldn't be a bad idea at least until the break.

Pros:
Less wear on Peavy and Sale
Keep Quintana in the rotation
Spread out Danks' appearances ramping him up for more quality second half starts
More time between starts, hopefully helps Floyd/Humber get things together.

Cons:
Less appearances by our two top guys, less chances for easier wins.
One less arm in the pen, and I doubt Kenny flushes Ohman, and we still need a long man - Stewart? (or one less man on bench - needed in NL parks this week)
More of a workload on the pen with starters not expected to go 7 strong innings 4 out of 6 starts.
More appearances by Humber/Floyd, delaying the obvious demotion for one of them.

hawkjt
06-13-2012, 01:32 PM
If this helps the Sox franchise player (Sale) it may be worth a shot. But on the other hand when the second half rolls around I would like the Sox to ride Peavy like a $3500 claimer. Get whatever is left in his tank.

Many here have given up on Floyd and Humber. Both in the last outing had 9 K's in 6 or less innings. To me that means these guys still have something, yes they groove some meatballs and have control issues but you still have to have good stuff to get those strikeouts.


Agree. Floyd and Humber's breaking stuff was good in their last outings,and resulted in a lot of strikeouts. Every mistake was hit out,it seemed,with Soxpark playing tiny on those days.
They are flyball pitchers which is a problem,but I think they are close to being decent again. A little better command,and fewer mistakes,and they are back in the groove. Patience.

As for the 6 man rotation, I think it is a worthy idea...for many reasons.
Peavy's health. Sale's health. Danks health. Q's continued good run. Humber's stamina,and Floyds peace of mind.

Do it.

what the foulke?
06-13-2012, 02:49 PM
I really cant agree on the six man rotation because our bullpen has been terrific and it adds a stuggling pitcher to the rotation.

As far as spot starting or using Humber as bullpen relief, that would be a definite solution but WHEN Danks returns to the rotation we should hope JQ stays in this groove and stick with 5.

A bullpen can easily be addressed through acquisitions and not simply by moving our guys around. We all know Mr. Perfect has to figure his stuff out right now (anywhere but the starting role) because losing a game your offense scores 9 runs for you in is not acceptable.

kufram
06-13-2012, 03:21 PM
I'll only weigh in to say that many things that look unacceptable on the surface have happened this year and yet we are in first place. I would guess that means that unacceptable things are happening elsewhere in the division but possibly slightly less so with us. Baseball.... the game can always be lost in the 9th inning no matter what the score is.

It took more than the starting pitcher to lose the game in which we scored 9 runs.

To talk about replacing 3 of your starting 5, which I read somewhere earlier thread, just doesn't bear commenting on. I prefer the real world.

I don't like what's been happening to Floyd, Danks, and Humber for parts of this season any more than anyone else but I have a feeling that if all 3 went on the DL it just might stir some suspicion.

I'm willing to trust the coaching staff (and the team) to find answers. I doubt very much if those answers are as easy to bring about as some imply.

I think a lot of the trouble behind the calls for the more radical of changes are, at least in part, due to the poor home record. That is understandable, but if the home/away records were reversed people would feel better but we would still be exactly where we are.... which isn't bad.

sox1970
06-13-2012, 03:52 PM
6-man rotation is a real bad idea.

Sox don't owe Humber anything. If he sucks on Saturday, he's out of the rotation when Danks gets back.

doublem23
06-13-2012, 03:59 PM
6-man rotation is a real bad idea.

Sox don't owe Humber anything. If he sucks on Saturday, he's out of the rotation when Danks gets back.

The idea of going to a 6-man rotation isn't due to "owing" Philip anything, it's to help preserve Peavy and Sale's arms.

sox1970
06-13-2012, 04:03 PM
The idea of going to a 6-man rotation isn't due to "owing" Philip anything, it's to help preserve Peavy and Sale's arms.

They get enough off days. Maybe a strategically placed spot start during a long run of games, but I don't want anyone, including Peavy and Sale sitting 6 days between starts.

TheOldRoman
06-13-2012, 04:37 PM
They get enough off days. Maybe a strategically placed spot start during a long run of games, but I don't want anyone, including Peavy and Sale sitting 6 days between starts.While I think it would help Peavy to give him an extra day off each go-round, I agree that the Sox should basically pitch him into the ground this year because it's his last year under contract (option not withstanding). However, if the Sox are in the race come August and September, particularly if they make the playoffs, Sale is going to end up with well over 200 innings pitched, which is likely going to cause him to be considerably worse next year and possibly lead to injuries. The idea of going to a six-man rotation is less about giving all the pitchers an extra day off and more about preserving Sale's career while still competing this year.

For the people commenting on Floyd and Humber's struggles, it's not about them. I think that both of them showed signs in their last starts of coming out of it, but they are both messed up mechanically and possibly in the heads right now. I am confident Floyd will come around, less so about Humber. However, there is no way other than injury that both of them are out of the Sox rotation come August. You have to accept the fact that at least one of them is going to start the entire season, even if Quintana is kept in the rotation. It's not about Floyd or Humber pitching poorly, but about giving Sale little, extra breaks so we don't have to skip him every other start down the stretch or shut him down completely while still in the hunt.

hawkjt
06-13-2012, 05:30 PM
I think that Jake is already showing some signs of arm fatigue,as he has been progressively less sharp the last few starts. I think it would really behoove the Sox to get him an extra day or two thru the dog days,if they want to actually have a solid starter in a playoff game. Same with Sale.

If the Sox should win the division,and have healthy and strong Peavy,Sale and Danks, they could make some noise in those playoffs. I am not saying it is a must,but it is worth considering.

WLL1855
06-13-2012, 08:19 PM
I think that Jake is already showing some signs of arm fatigue,as he has been progressively less sharp the last few starts. I think it would really behoove the Sox to get him an extra day or two thru the dog days,if they want to actually have a solid starter in a playoff game. Same with Sale.

If the Sox should win the division,and have healthy and strong Peavy,Sale and Danks, they could make some noise in those playoffs. I am not saying it is a must,but it is worth considering.

Whoever came up with the thought that a six man rotation was a good idea needs to have their head checked. Why not go with an eight man rotation? Hell, make it a ten man rotation! Even better!

This is the first I've heard of Jake having a tired arm. You have Coop over for dinner the other night and he share this tidbit with you? Jake has had two non-quality starts this season. That's pretty good. I want him on the mound every fifth day.

Worry about the postseason if and when we get there. Last thing I want to see is the Sox miss the playoffs by two games because we went with a dead fish on the mound for five starts.

TheOldRoman
06-13-2012, 10:32 PM
Whoever came up with the thought that a six man rotation was a good idea needs to have their head checked. Why not go with an eight man rotation? Hell, make it a ten man rotation! Even better!

This is the first I've heard of Jake having a tired arm. You have Coop over for dinner the other night and he share this tidbit with you? Jake has had two non-quality starts this season. That's pretty good. I want him on the mound every fifth day.

Worry about the postseason if and when we get there. Last thing I want to see is the Sox miss the playoffs by two games because we went with a dead fish on the mound for five starts.So... how do you propose the Sox decrease Sale's workload?

Lip Man 1
06-13-2012, 11:30 PM
Roman:

Well you could try an idea Tony LaRussa was considering at one time to limit the workload. Now I don't know how serious he was about it just that it was on the table.

10 pitchers on a staff. Each pitcher goes three innings and three innings only every game.

This is what I mean:

Monday: Pitchers #1, 2, 3 work three innings each
Tuesday: Pitchers #4, 5, 6
Wednesday: Pitchers #7, 8, 9
Thursday: Day Off
Friday: Pitchers #10, 1, 2

and so forth...

Lip

JB98
06-13-2012, 11:40 PM
100 percent opposed to a six-man rotation. Shouldn't even be discussed.

Right now, we have only three reliable starters, and one of them is a rookie with a grand total of six MLB appearances.

It would be one thing if everybody was throwing the ball well. Right now, we have two guys who suck and one guy on the DL.

There's a reason the Sox haven't been swept in a series all year. Namely, the opposition is going to have to face one of Peavy or Sale sometime in every three-game set. Let's keep it that way.

Lip Man 1
06-13-2012, 11:45 PM
According to Gonzo it's all a moot point now.

He said Ventura said before the game he wouldn't be going to a six man rotation. Said it would "throw people off. I would stay away from that."

End of discussion I assume.

Again if it were me, Humber goes to the pen, Q stays in the rotation, activate Danks, Stewart goes to Charlotte.

Lip

Noneck
06-13-2012, 11:45 PM
So... how do you propose the Sox decrease Sale's workload?

Starting in August you let Peavy pitch on 4 days rest, then in September Peavy goes on 3 days rest. This will enable the other Sox starters to get more than normal rest and the Sox will finally get some of the return on investment for Peavy.

doublem23
06-14-2012, 12:33 AM
According to Gonzo it's all a moot point now.

He said Ventura said before the game he wouldn't be going to a six man rotation. Said it would "throw people off. I would stay away from that."

End of discussion I assume.

Again if it were me, Humber goes to the pen, Q stays in the rotation, activate Danks, Stewart goes to Charlotte.

Lip

Ventura also said Sale was going to be the closer so let's not confuse his word with that of the Lord's.

TaylorStSox
06-14-2012, 01:53 AM
I think you stay the course for now. You might skip Sale if the opportunity presents itself. I'm fine with replacing Humber. However, Floyd is fine. He's laid some eggs, but that's his MO. He'll bounce back. He still has the stuff of a low 2 or high 3.