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View Full Version : McNeil finds all the Sox' negatives


delben91
06-08-2012, 08:51 AM
Says he's tempted to write off the season, and then doesn't, but then sort of does again.

Link (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-spt-0608-dan-mcneil--20120608,0,6968593.column)

doublem23
06-08-2012, 08:55 AM
I read this in the paper this morning. This takes up the bottom 1/3 of Page 3 of the Trib's Sports Section. The left 1/2 of the top 2/3 is some fluff garbage piece from Phil Rogers basically talking about how the Sox need Konerko to stay healthy or they'll be in trouble (like anyone needed to be told that).

:rolleyes:

****ing Tribune

LITTLE NELL
06-08-2012, 08:59 AM
Part of being a Chicago baseball fan is pessimism. As I mentioned in my pitching thread I'm concerned about Floyd and Humber. If we can get them back to normal which is a little above .500 for Floyd and .500 for Humber I think the Sox will win the division. Just give us quality starts guys and the rest will take care itself.

jdm2662
06-08-2012, 09:04 AM
McNeil is an arrogant blowhard with anger management issues. I'm sure he picked the Sox to finish last, and he's upset they are doing well. He has a history of rooting against teams or players just so he can stroke himself.

The Sox have issues, just like every single team in baseball. Just watch and hope they continue to do well. Why this is so hard is beyond me.

asindc
06-08-2012, 09:09 AM
Yawn. He says "when" Detroit wakes up, as if it is a certainty.

jdm2662
06-08-2012, 09:12 AM
Yawn. He says "when" Detroit wakes up, as if it is a certainty.

Right, since he picked DET to win the division, it must be true. It can certainly happen, but he's begging for it. He might get mad when his picks go wrong...

doublem23
06-08-2012, 09:16 AM
Yawn. He says "when" Detroit wakes up, as if it is a certainty.

Yeah, exactly, as if the Tigers don't have a laundry list of problems of their own and have just been hitting the snooze button for 50+ games.

Irishsox1
06-08-2012, 09:16 AM
I kind of agree with McNeil. This team just doesn't have the look of a division winner right now. Danks, Floyd, Humber and Morel/Hudson are big question marks. But that doesn't mean that the Sox can't add anyone or people can't come around. I'm just sitting back and watching what happens in Detroit, Cleveland.

If you would have told me in early July of 2005 that Jose Contreras was going to be the Sox best pitcher and would start Game 1 of ever playoff series I would have called you a dope smoking moron.

tstrike2000
06-08-2012, 09:19 AM
Right, since he picked DET to win the division, it must be true. It can certainly happen, but he's begging for it. He might get mad when his picks go wrong...

Of course, especially since they have Verlander and two big boppers in their lineup. McNeil and Rogers also need to remember that all three of those guys only play together once every five days. Of course Detroit's got a talented team, but they have just as many, if not more issues than the Sox.

asindc
06-08-2012, 09:21 AM
I kind of agree with McNeil. This team just doesn't have the look of a division winner right now. Danks, Floyd, Humber and Morel/Hudson are big question marks. But that doesn't mean that the Sox can't add anyone or people can't come around. I'm just sitting back and watching what happens in Detroit, Cleveland.

If you would have told me in early July of 2005 that Jose Contreras was going to be the Sox best pitcher and would start Game 1 of ever playoff series I would have called you a dope smoking moron.

In my view, it is not about the Sox' flaws as much as how flawed are they relative to the competition. Looking at it that way, I'm cautiously confident at this point.

TheOldRoman
06-08-2012, 09:30 AM
Of course, especially since they have Verlander and two big boppers in their lineup. McNeil and Rogers also need to remember that all three of those guys only play together once every five days. Of course Detroit's got a talented team, but they have just as many, if not more issues than the Sox.And let's not forget how last year we waited for the Sox to put it together, for Dunn to hit homers and walk like crazy, for Rios to play good defense and hit well, for Beckham to come out of his slump. The Sox were very talented last year, but they still had a horse **** season. Sometimes it happens. I'm not writing Detroit off this year, as I think I will be them and the Sox fighting for first place at season's end, but I wouldn't be shocked at all if they lost 85-90 games, as they did when they were the "best team EVAR" coming into 2008.

As for McNeil, jdm put it correctly. I haven't listened to him in a long time, but he was a total jackass and blowhard. He will crap on the Sox until mid-July, at which point he can complete ignore them to fondle himself while talking about preseason football.

hawkjt
06-08-2012, 09:31 AM
He does not follow the team all that closely. Last week,he was in Canada fishing,and did not see a single Sox game from the beginning of the Tribe sweep ,thru the Rays sweep,and the friday nite win vs the M's. Then he gets home in time to see the Sox lose to the M's on Sat.,then lose two to the Jays on Tues and Weds..then writes this column. So,from his standpoint what he has seen from the Sox in the last two weeks are 3 losses in 4 games...so he writes this column.

Now, that said, we are all concerned about Floyd,Humber and Danks.
The injury concern with Jake and Sale is just pointless speculation.
McNeil does mirror some fans who simply cannot enjoy the journey, even when having one of the best records in the AL.

We are all day to day,Danny Mac! Relax.

As for the Rodgers column, I actually learned more about PK's wrist problem. It has happened 50 times? Weird. Hope for no re-occurence this year....do not close any more doors,Paulie!

Zisk77
06-08-2012, 09:36 AM
To summarize detroit's problems:

No defensive range excepy in CH...and they play in a huge ballpark.

Poor defense.

starting pitching is an overworked Verlander some rookies they league is figuring out and inconsistent Porcello and Sherzer.

Not so good bullpen with Valverde being achey and so-so.

2b problems.

almost no team speed. No way to maufactur runs except slug.



Indian woes:

Injuries, injuries, injuries.

Starting staff good on paper, but Jimenez has been bad. Lowe is old.

If everyone got healthy they could be really dangerous.

Pen not nearly as good as Hawk would lead you to believe.

Tough remaining schedule.

Did I mention injuries?

soxinem1
06-08-2012, 09:40 AM
Yeah, exactly, as if the Tigers don't have a laundry list of problems of their own and have just been hitting the snooze button for 50+ games.

2012 DET strangely resembles the 2011 White Sox, other than their key FA pickup hitting well under .200.

I wonder where they would be if Prince wasn't there or hitting like 2011's Adam Dunn?

doublem23
06-08-2012, 10:01 AM
2012 DET strangely resembles the 2011 White Sox, other than their key FA pickup hitting well under .200.

I wonder where they would be if Prince wasn't there or hitting like 2011's Adam Dunn?

Surprisingly the Tigers and 2011 Sox are at the exact same spot at 57 games - 26-31.

doublem23
06-08-2012, 10:06 AM
Starting staff good on paper, but Jimenez has been bad. Lowe is old.


Masterson had a nice outing Opening Day, holding the Jays to 1 run on 2 hits over 8 innings with 10 strikeouts but since then he has been terrible... 11 starts, only 66.1 IP, 73 hits, 36 walks, 41 earned runs, and only 43 K's...

sachin
06-08-2012, 10:17 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XYbLxvPmyQw/TrmTLXWa6ZI/AAAAAAAAQx8/lpiVxzaZWyo/s800/11B_who%2Breally%2Bcares.jpg

jdm2662
06-08-2012, 10:19 AM
As for McNeil, jdm put it correctly. I haven't listened to him in a long time, but he was a total jackass and blowhard. He will crap on the Sox until mid-July, at which point he can complete ignore them to fondle himself while talking about preseason football.

Let's see if I can recall McNeil's greatest hits.

He didn't like Pods in 2005 because he didn't hit any homeruns. Translation: he was against the trade and just couldn't admit it worked out.

He acted like the Bears were 1-7 and not 7-1 after a loss to Miami in 2006. He also activately rooted against Rex Grossman because he predicted he wouldn't start all 16 games. He also ended up losing a bet, which made him $2000 lighter and a big blow to him. Then, when Grossman failed to turn the corner in 2007, he demanded people to give him an apology for being against him. Yeah sure Mac, go stroke your own ego. It's not that he thought he wasn't a good QB that was an issue. It's that he activately rooted against him because any success would've made him look bad.

And of course, who can forget his multiple suspensions because he couldn't control his anger on the air. HOW DARE YOU QUESTION ME!

I haven't listened to him since he left AM 1000. But, I did stumble on his show once during lunch last year. He was thumping his chest that the Bears shouldn't show up against the Eagles and he doesn't even care what the spread was. He also wrote an article with the same thing. How stupid for the Bears fans to get excited, etc. In particular, one of them was Earl Bennett returning. Yes Dan, I fail to see how a receiver that gets open and catches the ball is a bad thing. Of course, the Bears went on to beat the "dream team" and Bennett had a huge game. Poor Dan.

hawkjt
06-08-2012, 10:22 AM
There is a McNeil in every single town in MLB(cept for LA,maybe) who could write the same column about their local team.
Parity rules right now,Danny Mac.
Their is only two teams with less losses than the Sox today...Dodgers and Nationals with 21 and 23...then a bunch with 25,including the Sox.

So, at least every AL fanbase and local media can find issues with their teams. I am just glad the Sox are in that group tied for the fewest losses in the AL...with only the mighty Ranger a whole half game up on the Sox.

If you had told McNeil in March that the Sox would be 1.5 games in first place on June 8, he would have laughed you off the line...expectations were so low, it was inconceivable. Now, suddenly the Sox are flawed? Well....duh!

kittle42
06-08-2012, 10:54 AM
I know we're all on the bandwagon now because the team rattled off a nice stretch of wins, but I also fear that we do not have a real pennant contender here, and that - in what might be the greatest seller's market in years in baseball - the franchise will miss the chance to restock and screw itself out of being a stronger team in the coming seasons all for the sake of *maybe* reaching the playoffs if Detroit keeps stinking and Cleveland plays like we think they should.

Of course lost in our assessment of Detroit and Cleveland is the fact that both of those fanbases are just waiting for the Sox to play to their lower expectations, too.

asindc
06-08-2012, 11:03 AM
I know we're all on the bandwagon now because the team rattled off a nice stretch of wins, but I also fear that we do not have a real pennant contender here, and that - in what might be the greatest seller's market in years in baseball - the franchise will miss the chance to restock and screw itself out of being a stronger team in the coming seasons all for the sake of *maybe* reaching the playoffs if Detroit keeps stinking and Cleveland plays like we think they should.

Of course lost in our assessment of Detroit and Cleveland is the fact that both of those fanbases are just waiting for the Sox to play to their lower expectations, too.

1) I agree, we mostly likely don't have a real pennant contender. But I think, based on what I've seen so far this season, we have a legitimate division contender.

2) It is not lost in my assessment. I'm sure they are. But I never thought Detroit would walk away with the division or that Cleveland was much improved.

delben91
06-08-2012, 11:03 AM
I know we're all on the bandwagon now because the team rattled off a nice stretch of wins, but I also fear that we do not have a real pennant contender here, and that - in what might be the greatest seller's market in years in baseball - the franchise will miss the chance to restock and screw itself out of being a stronger team in the coming seasons all for the sake of *maybe* reaching the playoffs if Detroit keeps stinking and Cleveland plays like we think they should.

Of course lost in our assessment of Detroit and Cleveland is the fact that both of those fanbases are just waiting for the Sox to play to their lower expectations, too.

Yeah, and I can see that line of thought, but I don't think that's the argument McNeil is making. He's basically trying to find the worst case outcome for each player and assuming it'll happen, which might sell papers but doesn't pass the sniff test.

If it had been an article saying that the best long-term path for the Sox would be to take advantage of several key players' success this year and turn it into good return on trades, I think we'd be having a much different debate in this thread.

1989
06-08-2012, 11:09 AM
McNeil is an arrogant blowhard with anger management issues. I'm sure he picked the Sox to finish last, and he's upset they are doing well. He has a history of rooting against teams or players just so he can stroke himself.

The Sox have issues, just like every single team in baseball. Just watch and hope they continue to do well. Why this is so hard is beyond me.

How do you know this?

jdm2662
06-08-2012, 11:12 AM
How do you know this?

Between his multiple blowups on the air AND he has even admitted to them, that's how I know. He's gotten pissy multiple times on the air when you question him. He's also gotten suspended multiple times because of them.

Foulke You
06-08-2012, 11:12 AM
I know we're all on the bandwagon now because the team rattled off a nice stretch of wins, but I also fear that we do not have a real pennant contender here, and that - in what might be the greatest seller's market in years in baseball - the franchise will miss the chance to restock and screw itself out of being a stronger team in the coming seasons all for the sake of *maybe* reaching the playoffs if Detroit keeps stinking and Cleveland plays like we think they should.

Of course lost in our assessment of Detroit and Cleveland is the fact that both of those fanbases are just waiting for the Sox to play to their lower expectations, too.
When you have a chance to win a division title, you simply have to go for it. This is why they play the season. You can't dismantle a team and trade off key components because the team *might* fall a bit short. The 2003 White Sox traded off some talent to get Carl Everett and Roberto Alomar at the deadline. They fell a bit short but I never faulted KW or management for trying to win the AL Central with that team. It was the right thing to do then.

The 2012 Sox have some of the key ingredients you look for in a contender. A couple of aces at the front of the rotation, a strong bullpen with left and right handed balance, some speed at the top of the lineup, and some power in the middle. The two big flaws have been bottom of the order production and the inconsistency of the back end of the starting rotation. If this team ends up falling short, so be it. Getting to October is the whole point of the championship season. Let the Padres, Cubs, and Twins worry about next year.

Tragg
06-08-2012, 11:16 AM
I know we're all on the bandwagon now because the team rattled off a nice stretch of wins, but I also fear that we do not have a real pennant contender here, and that - in what might be the greatest seller's market in years in baseball - the franchise will miss the chance to restock and screw itself out of being a stronger team in the coming seasons all for the sake of *maybe* reaching the playoffs if Detroit keeps stinking and Cleveland plays like we think they should.

Of course lost in our assessment of Detroit and Cleveland is the fact that both of those fanbases are just waiting for the Sox to play to their lower expectations, too.
We didn't have that much to sell: The few pieces we had are having bad years anyway: Floyd, Thornton (clearly not what he was). And I haven't been overly impressed with what Ken Williams has acquired when he has sold (Zack Stewart - awful trade; the returns on Santos and Quentin don't look particularly compelling as of now).
The key, however, is to not buy and further put us in the hole for the future.

All in all, I'll take a good shot at a division title, while missing the chance at whatever Ken Williams would have gotten us for Floyd and Thornton. But please, just play this hand, leave our prospects alone, unless we can find something on the waiver wire.

Foulke You
06-08-2012, 11:26 AM
As for McNeil, jdm put it correctly. I haven't listened to him in a long time, but he was a total jackass and blowhard. He will crap on the Sox until mid-July, at which point he can complete ignore them to fondle himself while talking about preseason football.
This pretty much sums it up. The guy has been crapping on the Sox all year and despite being a "Sox fan", he seems to take a special delight in bringing up attendance troubles and can't wait to change the subject off of the winning baseball on the field. He is such a gambling junkie that I wonder if he bet heavily against the Sox this year.

McNeil loathes basketball, seems disinterested in baseball, has *some* interest in hockey, but the only sport he truly cares about is football. Any chance to talk football, and he will steer the show there. I'm not a football fan so it isn't my cup of tea. I just find it annoying that a local sports talk show host only wants to talk about one sport. Dan is a blowhard but pretty tame compared to other sports blab trolls of the past like Bill Simonson, Jay Mariotti, etc.

jdm2662
06-08-2012, 11:32 AM
This pretty much sums it up. The guy has been crapping on the Sox all year and despite being a "Sox fan", he seems to take a special delight in bringing up attendance troubles and can't wait to change the subject off of the winning baseball on the field. He is such a gambling junkie that I wonder if he bet heavily against the Sox this year.

McNeil loathes basketball, seems disinterested in baseball, has *some* interest in hockey, but the only sport he truly cares about is football. Any chance to talk football, and he will steer the show there. I'm not a football fan so it isn't my cup of tea. I just find it annoying that a local sports talk show host only wants to talk about one sport. Dan is a blowhard but pretty tame compared to other sports blab trolls of the past like Bill Simonson, Jay Mariotti, etc.

I'm a football fan first, and can talk about the Bears and the NFL all day if I wanted. The only problem is, it's June and there is nothing to talk about. From the end of the Super Bowl until training camp, there shouldn't be much air time for the sport. This is except during the week of free agency and the week of the draft. Talk about OTAs and mini-camps? Snooze bar please. There is nothing to come out of those workouts, unless a freak injury happens.

And you know what, I will put my Bears knowledge against him and bet I will win.

WhiteSox5187
06-08-2012, 11:37 AM
I know we're all on the bandwagon now because the team rattled off a nice stretch of wins, but I also fear that we do not have a real pennant contender here, and that - in what might be the greatest seller's market in years in baseball - the franchise will miss the chance to restock and screw itself out of being a stronger team in the coming seasons all for the sake of *maybe* reaching the playoffs if Detroit keeps stinking and Cleveland plays like we think they should.

Of course lost in our assessment of Detroit and Cleveland is the fact that both of those fanbases are just waiting for the Sox to play to their lower expectations, too.

That's a good point. I really don't think we have what it would take to win the pennant but it appears that for now we have a team that can contend and maybe even win the division and once you get into the playoffs anything can happen. That being said, I would hate to see a repeat of 2010 where we are contending with a clearly flawed team and Kenny goes out and trades a promising young player (I don't really know that we have any of those to be honest) for an over priced veteran and then miss the playoffs. If we're still in first come the trade deadline I think I would rather see us stand pat and try and win with what we have rather than depleting an already depleted farm system for Edwin Jackson or Nick Swisher 2.0

jdm2662
06-08-2012, 11:52 AM
That's a good point. I really don't think we have what it would take to win the pennant but it appears that for now we have a team that can contend and maybe even win the division and once you get into the playoffs anything can happen. That being said, I would hate to see a repeat of 2010 where we are contending with a clearly flawed team and Kenny goes out and trades a promising young player (I don't really know that we have any of those to be honest) for an over priced veteran and then miss the playoffs. If we're still in first come the trade deadline I think I would rather see us stand pat and try and win with what we have rather than depleting an already depleted farm system for Edwin Jackson or Nick Swisher 2.0

This White Sox team has issues, just like every team in the AL right now. My preference is to sink and swim if the Sox are still contending by the trade deadline. but, you don't just trade parts if you have a legit chance at the division. You just don't. There is no such thing as next year in sports. And, quite honostly, with the free agents on this team, I don't really know what to get excited about. There isn't much in the minors that excites me, and Kenny williams hasn't exactly hit many home runs lately with his trades.

hawkjt
06-08-2012, 11:57 AM
This pretty much sums it up. The guy has been crapping on the Sox all year and despite being a "Sox fan", he seems to take a special delight in bringing up attendance troubles and can't wait to change the subject off of the winning baseball on the field. He is such a gambling junkie that I wonder if he bet heavily against the Sox this year.

McNeil loathes basketball, seems disinterested in baseball, has *some* interest in hockey, but the only sport he truly cares about is football. Any chance to talk football, and he will steer the show there. I'm not a football fan so it isn't my cup of tea. I just find it annoying that a local sports talk show host only wants to talk about one sport. Dan is a blowhard but pretty tame compared to other sports blab trolls of the past like Bill Simonson, Jay Mariotti, etc.

Pretty much agree,cept that I do think that Hockey is his #1 sports love.
Or at least a close #2 to football. Those are his two sports...anything else,he is bored with,it seems.
Now, Spiegs loves baseball,and the NBA...which does make some sense in terms of a partnership on air. At least they have someone on every sport that matters.

Now, I realize that sportstalk radio is all about conflict,and debates,so to some extent, he seeks to be argumentative...to rile up the natives,a la Bernstein and Boers. They are all about being oppo to prevailing sentiment.

TomBradley72
06-08-2012, 12:01 PM
It's just silly to not consider the White Sox a legit contender at this point in the season- they have one of the best records in the league so far despite: no defined closer until about a month ago, 3/5 starting pitchers struggling, and Viciedo/Ramirez/Beckham only heating up in the past few weeks.

Both the Tigers and Indians have significant flaws- if we were going up against the Rangers- I'd be concerned- but after that we're in the hunt with everyone else.

Our achilles heal will be injuries with very little organizational depth or trade bait-

beasly213
06-08-2012, 12:08 PM
It's pretty slow in local sports right now. The Cubs are awful, bulls and hawks were out early in the playoffs, no bears for a while. The Sox are playing good ball but saying and writing things like "The Sox are playing pretty good now but we'll see." is pretty boring sports talk.

That's why it seemed like 2 weeks was spent on "Sox attendance problems" as if Sox attendance hasn't been an issue since 1995 or something. :rolleyes:

This column is a typical "Look at me! I'm saying things!" to get attention.

hawkjt
06-08-2012, 12:17 PM
McNeil and Speigs are interviewing Robin Ventura right now.

I have not heard Robin on air much since the start of the season.

Pretty decent interview really.
Talked about his style,and his coaching staff.
Touched on O-Dog.
Very matter of fact...said the other day, when he needed an outfielder,he asked Escobar if he had ever played outfield,and Edwardo said yes,so he sent him out...funny,but glad it worked out.

Was asked about the Sale/injury kerfuffle...very transparent process, admits they may have overreacted to the initial discomfort from Sale.
As far as an innings limit on Sale...''right now,just want him to go out with a starter's mentality and just pitch'' ....no drop dead innings number for the season at this point.

doublem23
06-08-2012, 12:44 PM
I know we're all on the bandwagon now because the team rattled off a nice stretch of wins, but I also fear that we do not have a real pennant contender here, and that - in what might be the greatest seller's market in years in baseball - the franchise will miss the chance to restock and screw itself out of being a stronger team in the coming seasons all for the sake of *maybe* reaching the playoffs if Detroit keeps stinking and Cleveland plays like we think they should.

Of course lost in our assessment of Detroit and Cleveland is the fact that both of those fanbases are just waiting for the Sox to play to their lower expectations, too.

I don't like this line of thinking for a few reasons -

A) Why don't the Sox have a real pennant contender? The AL East is a complete ****show right now, those teams are going to be going head-to-head for the full season, it's not like the late 90s when the Yankees would have a 25 game lead in the division by the 4th of July and just set it to cruise control for the 2nd half and be ready for the playoffs. Whoever wins the East and anyone other Wild Card team(s) that come out of that division are going to have cannibalized by its competitiveness. The AL West has not produced a dominant team in the Rangers or Angels, either, and both have had long stretches of pedestrian play, as well.

B) Given the general apathy of the Sox fanbase, a nice run to the postseason would almost assuredly be the best thing for the Sox. I know some dark cloud whiners will also rattle on about KW's hauls in recent deals, but it's the truth, teams aren't giving away their top prospects any more, and when they do, they still turn out to be crappy 1/2 the time. Seattle got Justin Smoak and Blake Beaven for Cliff Lee, a pair of former 1st round picks from the Rangers, and neither one of them has established themselves as anything better than a borderline average player. And that was for Cliff Lee.

C) The playoffs are an enormous crapshoot. Just getting there is the goal. There's almost no correlation between seeding and success in the postseason. Even if the Sox are only the 3rd or 4th best team in the AL, that still gives them the same shot at the pennant or World Series as anyone else. St. Louis was probably the 4th or 5th best team in the NL last season but they found a way to make the playoffs and then got hot at the right time. The idea of giving up on potential winning season now for the supposed payoff of great seasons down the line is not a winning strategy, IMO.

kittle42
06-08-2012, 12:48 PM
The playoffs are an enormous crapshoot.

This is what Kings fans told me!

kufram
06-08-2012, 01:24 PM
I don't like this line of thinking for a few reasons -

A) Why don't the Sox have a real pennant contender? The AL East is a complete ****show right now, those teams are going to be going head-to-head for the full season, it's not like the late 90s when the Yankees would have a 25 game lead in the division by the 4th of July and just set it to cruise control for the 2nd half and be ready for the playoffs. Whoever wins the East and anyone other Wild Card team(s) that come out of that division are going to have cannibalized by its competitiveness. The AL West has not produced a dominant team in the Rangers or Angels, either, and both have had long stretches of pedestrian play, as well.



B) Given the general apathy of the Sox fanbase, a nice run to the postseason would almost assuredly be the best thing for the Sox. I know some dark cloud whiners will also rattle on about KW's hauls in recent deals, but it's the truth, teams aren't giving away their top prospects any more, and when they do, they still turn out to be crappy 1/2 the time. Seattle got Justin Smoak and Blake Beaven for Cliff Lee, a pair of former 1st round picks from the Rangers, and neither one of them has established themselves as anything better than a borderline average player. And that was for Cliff Lee.

C) The playoffs are an enormous crapshoot. Just getting there is the goal. There's almost no correlation between seeding and success in the postseason. Even if the Sox are only the 3rd or 4th best team in the AL, that still gives them the same shot at the pennant or World Series as anyone else. St. Louis was probably the 4th or 5th best team in the NL last season but they found a way to make the playoffs and then got hot at the right time. The idea of giving up on potential winning season now for the supposed payoff of great seasons down the line is not a winning strategy, IMO.


Sense.

Foulke You
06-08-2012, 02:08 PM
C) The playoffs are an enormous crapshoot. Just getting there is the goal. There's almost no correlation between seeding and success in the postseason.

Indeed it is:

http://peoriachronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/WorldChamps.jpg

SI1020
06-08-2012, 02:19 PM
I don't like this line of thinking for a few reasons -

A) Why don't the Sox have a real pennant contender? The AL East is a complete ****show right now, those teams are going to be going head-to-head for the full season, it's not like the late 90s when the Yankees would have a 25 game lead in the division by the 4th of July and just set it to cruise control for the 2nd half and be ready for the playoffs. Whoever wins the East and anyone other Wild Card team(s) that come out of that division are going to have cannibalized by its competitiveness. The AL West has not produced a dominant team in the Rangers or Angels, either, and both have had long stretches of pedestrian play, as well.

B) Given the general apathy of the Sox fanbase, a nice run to the postseason would almost assuredly be the best thing for the Sox. I know some dark cloud whiners will also rattle on about KW's hauls in recent deals, but it's the truth, teams aren't giving away their top prospects any more, and when they do, they still turn out to be crappy 1/2 the time. Seattle got Justin Smoak and Blake Beaven for Cliff Lee, a pair of former 1st round picks from the Rangers, and neither one of them has established themselves as anything better than a borderline average player. And that was for Cliff Lee.

C) The playoffs are an enormous crapshoot. Just getting there is the goal. There's almost no correlation between seeding and success in the postseason. Even if the Sox are only the 3rd or 4th best team in the AL, that still gives them the same shot at the pennant or World Series as anyone else. St. Louis was probably the 4th or 5th best team in the NL last season but they found a way to make the playoffs and then got hot at the right time. The idea of giving up on potential winning season now for the supposed payoff of great seasons down the line is not a winning strategy, IMO. Excellent. In all honesty, I didn't think the Sox had a prayer this year. It's obvious that parity has come to baseball in a big way and you are so correct when you say the playoffs are a crapshoot. So for now at least I'm keeping hope alive.

ChiSoxGal85
06-08-2012, 02:34 PM
The playoffs are an enormous crapshoot. Just getting there is the goal.

This. All it takes is a team getting hot at the right time, coupled with other teams going cold or suffering injuries, and all "logical" predictions are off.

Zisk77
06-08-2012, 02:57 PM
How do you know this?

In regards to Mcneil's anger management issues, it common knowledge if you ever listen to the show. He has various mental/emotional issues that he takes meds and gets treatment. Recently, he thought he had his problems licked so he stupidly stopped taking his meds (without doctor's advice) because the meds were exhaustiing him. Well, he had some sort of drastic set back and had to take a leave of absence until he recovered.

DonnieDarko
06-08-2012, 03:01 PM
In regards to Mcneil's anger management issues, it common knowledge if you ever listen to the show. He has various mental/emotional issues that he takes meds and gets treatment. Recently, he thought he had his problems licked so he stupidly stopped taking his meds (without doctor's advice) because the meds were exhaustiing him. Well, he had some sort of drastic set back and had to take a leave of absence until he recovered.

That's actually a common problem with people who have mental disorders. You think that you're "cured" or you hate the side effects or whatever--or maybe you even just forget--and then you go into a downward spiral and your life, and the lives of those around you, suffers.

I honestly don't hold it against him, even if it wasn't the smartest thing to do.

Zisk77
06-08-2012, 03:07 PM
That's actually a common problem with people who have mental disorders. You think that you're "cured" or you hate the side effects or whatever--or maybe you even just forget--and then you go into a downward spiral and your life, and the lives of those around you, suffers.

I honestly don't hold it against him, even if it wasn't the smartest thing to do.

I agree.

DonnieDarko
06-08-2012, 03:11 PM
As long as he's doing better now, that's all that should matter. The man's mental illness should not be used as means to degrade him. Not that I see anyone actively doing that here in this thread, but I certainly see some...lack of empathy, I guess, for the guy. *shrug*

Living with mental illness (especially a serious one like I think McNeil has--bipolar disorder?) is honestly one of the worst curses that anyone can be given. If anything, I respect the man for being able to function in a public spotlight given the nature of his disease. That is a seriously hard to do for normal people let alone those with mental illnesses, and should not be discounted.

*gets off the soap box*

thomas35forever
06-08-2012, 03:16 PM
Indeed it is:

http://peoriachronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/WorldChamps.jpg
Don't forget last year either. NOBODY had the Cardinals in the playoffs. Then they take the lead on the last day of the season and win the whole thing. Nothing is certain in the playoffs. Just ask the 2001 Mariners.

central44
06-08-2012, 05:39 PM
I don't like this line of thinking for a few reasons -

A) Why don't the Sox have a real pennant contender? The AL East is a complete ****show right now, those teams are going to be going head-to-head for the full season, it's not like the late 90s when the Yankees would have a 25 game lead in the division by the 4th of July and just set it to cruise control for the 2nd half and be ready for the playoffs. Whoever wins the East and anyone other Wild Card team(s) that come out of that division are going to have cannibalized by its competitiveness. The AL West has not produced a dominant team in the Rangers or Angels, either, and both have had long stretches of pedestrian play, as well.

B) Given the general apathy of the Sox fanbase, a nice run to the postseason would almost assuredly be the best thing for the Sox. I know some dark cloud whiners will also rattle on about KW's hauls in recent deals, but it's the truth, teams aren't giving away their top prospects any more, and when they do, they still turn out to be crappy 1/2 the time. Seattle got Justin Smoak and Blake Beaven for Cliff Lee, a pair of former 1st round picks from the Rangers, and neither one of them has established themselves as anything better than a borderline average player. And that was for Cliff Lee.

C) The playoffs are an enormous crapshoot. Just getting there is the goal. There's almost no correlation between seeding and success in the postseason. Even if the Sox are only the 3rd or 4th best team in the AL, that still gives them the same shot at the pennant or World Series as anyone else. St. Louis was probably the 4th or 5th best team in the NL last season but they found a way to make the playoffs and then got hot at the right time. The idea of giving up on potential winning season now for the supposed payoff of great seasons down the line is not a winning strategy, IMO.

That was awesome and 100% true.

I see no reason why the Sox don't have a pennant contender. Looking at it objectively, there's no team in baseball right now I would say the Sox couldn't beat in a playoff series. That doesn't mean they're a juggernaught or anything, just that there are no dominant teams right now and it's anybody's guess. The other top teams are just as flawed as the Sox, if not more so.

And yeah, the world series winner is often the hottest team going into the postseason. Having two top end starters helps, and the Sox have that with Peavy and Sale.

I wouldn't fault KW if he decided to add a legitimate 3B or another SP at the trade deadline (Assuming Danks, Humber or Floyd don't bounce back--although i'm really high on Quintana right now, even though the jury is still out). Thats the whole point--to go for it when it's there for you. It doesn't happen particularily often, so make the most of the opportunity when it presents itself.

Nellie_Fox
06-09-2012, 12:21 AM
Isn't McNeil already counting down the "days until they're in pads" in Bourbonnais?

Harry Potter
06-09-2012, 12:20 PM
Not a surprise this came from from Dan "wahh, wahh, I'm depressed, poor me" McNeil.

SephClone89
06-09-2012, 12:21 PM
Not a surprise this came from from Dan "wahh, wahh, I'm depressed, poor me" McNeil.

Seriously? Show some tact.

slavko
06-09-2012, 03:21 PM
Seriously? Show some tact.

I wouldn't attack Dan on his serious troubles, but he has displayed very little tact in expressing himself over the years. When he doesn't like you.....WOW! Pot calling the chickens home to roost or something like that.

Dan H
06-10-2012, 07:00 AM
I didn't read the column and don't care to. While I see the Sox have many flaws, they have one thing that most teams in the AL have going for them: Baseball parity. With the possible exception of Texas, I really don't think any team is going to roll up a dominating record and that of course includes Detroit. So the Sox have just as good a chance as anyone else. It just won't be easy.

Harry Chappas
06-10-2012, 11:57 AM
Not a surprise this came from from Dan "wahh, wahh, I'm depressed, poor me" McNeil.

Stay classy Harry. I hope you and/or those close to you never suffer from depression. It's no picnic and you should applaud McNeil for his honesty on that front as well as his work for autism.

As for his broadcasting abilities, opinions, etc. - that's fair game.

SOXYoose
06-10-2012, 01:05 PM
2-3 years in a row, the Yankees got off to really sluggish starts and immediately "this is gonna be a lost season" talk. Pistons/Lakers Finals - guys like Jim Rome said "NO WAY they'll win the Game 3. By game 4: "no way they'll sweep." Then next season, right back to presenting things as if they're in the know. I don't worship these guys, so their opinions are as legit as my neighbor's.

BigKlu59
06-10-2012, 02:45 PM
2-3 years in a row, the Yankees got off to really sluggish starts and immediately "this is gonna be a lost season" talk. Pistons/Lakers Finals - guys like Jim Rome said "NO WAY they'll win the Game 3. By game 4: "no way they'll sweep." Then next season, right back to presenting things as if they're in the know. I don't worship these guys, so their opinions are as legit as my neighbor's.

Yup, cept he can throw a Porterhouse on the grill while the neighbour does burgers and dogs.. Opinion and *******s , we all have one...

Look around the league.. Other than the Dodgers at this point, all Division leaders are pretty much pushing the same W/L records. As alluded to in an earlier post, It is all about getting to the post season. Anything can and will happen... Thats baseball. This coming up series with the Bums should be a measure of where our guys fit into the puzzle. Go out to Chavez Ravine and put up a good show and that will solidify in their heads that they may have something special going on.

hey, if they can run off 15 straight that would be nice.. Right now its all about winning or sweepng each series here on out.. A .660 clip would be just what the Dr. ordered.

BK59

mahagga73
06-10-2012, 03:22 PM
Says he's tempted to write off the season, and then doesn't, but then sort of does again.

Link (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-spt-0608-dan-mcneil--20120608,0,6968593.column)
Mc Neil,Holmes,Spiegel,all the amateur hour they have on at night like Ostroski ,that station has sunk to the bottom.Boers and Bernstein and Mully and Hanley are the only listenable shows on there anymore.Rogers and Spiegel(Cub schills) do nothing but talk about the loser Cubs for 3 hours every week on the Cubfest Hit and Run show.Spiegel is from Boston so I'm not sure why he picked the Cubs.Mc Neil is a windsock and it's obvious he isn't a die-hard baseball fan so I wouldn't even care what he says.