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View Full Version : *Official* 6/6 "Singing The Blues (Jays)" Postgame Thread


Lip Man 1
06-06-2012, 10:03 PM
Sox just can't beat these guys, period. Doesn't matter who they play or who they pitch.

Q deserved better.

Lead down to a half game.

5th time this year Sox have been shutout.

Was hoping they could have a really kick ass homestand...Seattle (bad), Toronto (mediocre), Houston (terrible) maybe go 7-2 or 6-3...now they'll be lucky to go 5-4.

What can you do.

Lip

MtGrnwdSoxFan
06-06-2012, 10:07 PM
Sox just can't beat these guys, period. Doesn't matter who they play or who they pitch.

Q deserved better.

Lead down to a half game.

Lip

Rasmus sucks.

Quintana needed a shutout, and didn't get it....so he loses.

SoxSpeed22
06-06-2012, 10:08 PM
One of those 60 you're supposed to lose. Toronto has had injury problems lately, but if they get one of the wild card spots, I wouldn't be surprised.

Lip Man 1
06-06-2012, 10:08 PM
Remember at one time there was a lot of talk Rasmus was headed to the Sox.

Lip

Lip Man 1
06-06-2012, 10:10 PM
Speed:

Well the Sox haven't exactly been injury free lately have they?

Lip

Tragg
06-06-2012, 10:16 PM
Down 2, pull the night's most productive hitter out and the PR tries to steal?

TheOldRoman
06-06-2012, 10:17 PM
So much for our hot streak. It's a shame we couldn't pull off a really long one like in 2010. Well, at least our hitters didn't overexert themselves tonight. They should be nice and rested for tomorrow.

As much as I was pissed by the offensive performance, I was just as mad at Santiago's pitching in the ninth. Gave up at hit and then kept ****ing around throwing to first, even though the runner was no threat at all to steal. That distracted him and he gave up a homer to a horrible hitter. It wouldn't have made a bit of difference in the outcome, but that shouldn't happen. Hopefully he learns from it.

JB98
06-06-2012, 10:18 PM
Remember at one time there was a lot of talk Rasmus was headed to the Sox.

Lip

In retrospect, I'm glad that didn't happen. He sucks. It's embarrassing that the Sox are having problems getting him out.

Romero and Morrow are tough pitchers, and the Sox couldn't solve them. Thought the Sox swung at too many bad pitches tonight.

TheOldRoman
06-06-2012, 10:19 PM
Down 2, pull the night's most productive hitter out and the PR tries to steal?Yeah, I forgot about that. Lillibridge shouldn't see the field for a good, long time after that. He can't keep having horrible lapses running the bases. He should have never been stealing late in a two run game. Him being at second meant nothing.

FielderJones
06-06-2012, 10:23 PM
As much as I was pissed by the offensive performance, I was just as mad at Santiago's pitching in the ninth. Gave up at hit and then kept ****ing around throwing to first, even though the runner was no threat at all to steal. That distracted him and he gave up a homer to a horrible hitter. It wouldn't have made a bit of difference in the outcome, but that shouldn't happen. Hopefully he learns from it.

Santiago gives up a lot of home runs. That's why he lost the closer job.

cws05champ
06-06-2012, 10:24 PM
It has been our #5 & 6 starters vs. Their 1 & 2 so far....so I'm not too concerned yet. Hopefully they can salvage one.

JB98
06-06-2012, 10:25 PM
It has been our #5 & 6 starters vs. Their 1 & 2 so far....so I'm not too concerned yet. Hopefully they can salvage one.

A good point. And the Sox are without their best player. These matchups have been tough.

Let's hope Peavy can stop this little two-game slide tomorrow.

BigKlu59
06-06-2012, 10:25 PM
Ok... I think they got it backwards in the clubhouse. You're supposed to freeze the Balls , not the Bats... Damn, this was a tough one to watch after the offensive barrage over the last couple of weeks... Yup, that double switch confused me as well. AJ was the only Hose to get a good bead on Morrow and they put his bat back in the rack. Hey Lip... I feel your pain. Just when these guys see some daylight they run back into the cellar with Auntie Em... I too was hoping for an .800 clip on this homestand. Hope this is just a small hiccup and they come out tomorrow and turn this thing around again. Q did what he had to do. Sucks he had no support.

BK59

all*star quentin
06-06-2012, 10:33 PM
"Many teams have the shift on for players like Thome and Dunn. What the Blue Jays did tonight, they had the third baseman in short right field.
This is Major League baseball, should we have rules that make guys stay in the general area of the position that they play. Really starting to bother him.
Frank said he would be four for four, take the avg. night. He would lay down four bunts. If they're going to leave the whole left side open, a hits a hit."

TDog
06-06-2012, 10:39 PM
Rasmus sucks.

Quintana needed a shutout, and didn't get it....so he loses.

A lot of teams, most teams are going to lose to Morrow tonight. Not having Konerko in the lineup made it that much harder. The Sox might have been able to scratch across a run. If Lillibridge had been able to get to second with none out and come around to score, the Sox might have had a chance to tie it in the ninth by scratching out another, but obviously that plan didn't come close to working.

Rajai Davis essentially won the game with a stolen base, which allowed him to score the first run moments later. His home run in the ninth pretty much killed any hopes the White Sox had tonight. Missing Verlander in every Tigers series so far, the Sox shouldn't have any reason to complain about facing a tough pitcher.

I didn't understand why the Giants released Davis (actually the A's claimed him off waivers) or why the A's traded him. Billy Beane doesn't appreciate stolen bases, I've been told, and he had to have these two Blue Jays pitching prospects.

I also don't understand why runners take third on defensive indifference as De Aza did in the ninth. I've seen it a few times this year, and it makes no sense. Second base I understand. It removes the force. I would think, though, that if his run doesn't mean anything, you lose a possible advatage by gong to third. At second, the runner can see where the catcher is setting up and can possibly pick up signs. On the plus side, I guess De Aza can't be accused of stealing signs. But I digress.

Losing to the Blue Jays doesn't really bother me any more than losing itself. The 1993 ALCS bothered me, and it would bother me if the White Sox lost to the Blue Jays consistently while playing 18 games a year against them. But the Blue Jays history begins with a two-of-three series win over the White Sox in 1977, a season in which they lost 107 games.

Foulke You
06-06-2012, 10:45 PM
Down 2, pull the night's most productive hitter out and the PR tries to steal?
I didn't understand that move either. It was a rally killer for sure. We finally had Morrow pitching under stress with nobody out and just like that, we let him off the hook.

Soxman219
06-06-2012, 10:46 PM
Why doesn't Dunn try to hit to the left side if 3b is open?

RKMeibalane
06-06-2012, 10:48 PM
Why doesn't Dunn try to hit to the left side if 3b is open?

For the same reason that Ryan Howard and David Ortiz don't. It's not part of his approach at the plate. People have been advocating for the bunt from left-handed power-hitters for years. It's not going to happen. These guys are paid to hit the ball four hundred mother****ing feet, and not an inch less.

palehozenychicty
06-06-2012, 10:57 PM
For the same reason that Ryan Howard and David Ortiz don't. It's not part of his approach at the plate. People have been advocating for the bunt from left-handed power-hitters for years. It's not going to happen. These guys are paid to hit the ball four hundred mother****ing feet, and not an inch less.

Hello.

TDog
06-06-2012, 11:00 PM
Why doesn't Dunn try to hit to the left side if 3b is open?

A cynic might argue that he would actually have to hit the ball to hit it to the left side. All joking aside, he isn't going to put up big power numbers going the other way. The outfield doesn't employ a radical shift. The shift against Dunn is only giving him singles.

It could be argued that if Dunn did go the other way for singles, eventually they would stop employing the shift. If the White Sox are down five runs in the eighth with no one on base (I think that was last night's situation), a single or a walk pretty much helps your team as much as a home run does. I don't think it would be a bad thing for him to do so, and shorten his swing with two strikes to cut down on strikeouts, something Konerko has effectively done during his career.

I believe the way to beat the shift is to take advantage of the openings it creates, but I don't get paid millions of dollars to hit.

Noneck
06-06-2012, 11:09 PM
Why doesn't Dunn try to hit to the left side if 3b is open?

This was brought up many times when Thome was on the Sox and the conclusion was , you cant teach an old dog new tricks, which I never bought.

tstrike2000
06-06-2012, 11:15 PM
With PK out and Morrow pitching, it was just a tip your cap night. The last few nights, we've been swinging at a lot of pitches well out of the zone. Hopefully take the finale tomorrow.

Crooked Number
06-06-2012, 11:34 PM
Rode my bike to the park, brought a water, and enjoyed some seven dollar baseball. Not a bad night at all. The result wasn't good, but you just can't do much when these past two Jay pitchers are dealing like this. Try to avoid the sweep tomorrow.

TDog
06-06-2012, 11:35 PM
I didn't understand that move either. It was a rally killer for sure. We finally had Morrow pitching under stress with nobody out and just like that, we let him off the hook.

Ventura gambled and lost, but he was looking to push across at least one run in the eighth, hold the Jays in the ninth and work to scratch another run in the ninth. With the lineup turning over, you could have Dunn coming up with a chance to tie or win a one-run game.

If Lillibridge steals, Ramirez grounds out to the right side, and you can pull within one by getting the runner in from third with less than two out. The Jays are going to concede the run up by two in the eighth.

Most of the contact against Morrow is on the ground. If you leave Pierzynski at first, the chances of the White Sox hitting into a doubleplay are high. You don't want to sacrifice, because that takes away the chance to score the runner from first without getting a hit.

Not having Pierzynski in the game to hit again is irrelevant because if the Sox don't tie the game, he isn't going to come up to bat again. If the game goes into extra innings, but bullpen should be easier to hit. If it were the ninth, Pierzynski would have stayed in the game because scratching across just one run when you're down by two in the last inning would be meaningless. That was asusming the White Sox held the Blue Jays in the ninth, which they needed to do to have a realistic chance of winning.

I was impressed with the move becasue it looked like the best chance the White Sox had. It didn't work. Maybe Morrow out of the stretch would have been ineffective, but his splits don't he will be. In the end, pinch-running Lillibridge probably did nothing to change the outcome of the game.

thomas35forever
06-06-2012, 11:36 PM
Just got back from the game. Thought the bats made good contact. They just happened to hit balls right at guys. Morrow knew how to pitch to contact and the Sox couldn't solve him. Glad the defense (or rather, Hudson) made some plays or this would have been uglier.

Also, too bad Quintana couldn't get any support, but he lived dangerously all night. He's going to be something special. He just needs to do a better job of shutting down the order, which he did only once tonight.

Forget about it. Move on and hope you can salvage a game.

BigHurt3515
06-06-2012, 11:49 PM
Just got back from the game. Thought the bats made good contact. They just happened to hit balls right at guys. Morrow knew how to pitch to contact and the Sox couldn't solve him. Glad the defense (or rather, Hudson) made some plays or this would have been uglier.

Also, too bad Quintana couldn't get any support, but he lived dangerously all night. He's going to be something special. He just needs to do a better job of shutting down the order, which he did only once tonight.

Forget about it. Move on and hope you can salvage a game.


I think he is going to be like Buehrle in the sense he lets up a lot of hits but not a lot of damage is done.. I like him

DumpJerry
06-06-2012, 11:55 PM
On the bright side, there was some serious leather flashed in our infield tonight.

Last night my buddy and I were looking at the Dunn Shift. He was saying if he was Dunn, he'd drop a bunt on the Third Base side and get to First. I pointed out the problem with that is Dunn is pretty slow and if the Catcher or Pitcher gets to it quick enough, he's out. It would have to a perfect bunt that comes to a rest in that no-mans' land on the line about twenty feet from the Plate.

Tragg
06-07-2012, 12:02 AM
Ventura gambled and lost, but he was looking to push across at least one run in the eighth, hold the Jays in the ninth and work to scratch another run in the ninth. With the lineup turning over, you could have Dunn coming up with a chance to tie or win a one-run game.

If Lillibridge steals, Ramirez grounds out to the right side, and you can pull within one by getting the runner in from third with less than two out. The Jays are going to concede the run up by two in the eighth.

Chunking for a run, risking the few remaining outs - that's, well, Guillen ball. It's silly.
You finally get the leadoff man on, and you play defensive. No.

And within that scenario, you've yanked the night's most productive hitter of the evening out of the lineup. Well, if you get lucky and tie it up with infield grounders, eventually you're going to have to win it.

JB98
06-07-2012, 12:32 AM
On the bright side, there was some serious leather flashed in our infield tonight.

Last night my buddy and I were looking at the Dunn Shift. He was saying if he was Dunn, he'd drop a bunt on the Third Base side and get to First. I pointed out the problem with that is Dunn is pretty slow and if the Catcher or Pitcher gets to it quick enough, he's out. It would have to a perfect bunt that comes to a rest in that no-mans' land on the line about twenty feet from the Plate.

Here's what people have to understand: Even if Dunn bunts successfully for a single, then the Sox still need three more singles after that for him to score a run. In most situations, that's not helping matters. The Sox need Dunn to hit the ball off the wall or over it.

TDog
06-07-2012, 12:34 AM
Chunking for a run, risking the few remaining outs - that's, well, Guillen ball. It's silly.
You finally get the leadoff man on, and you play defensive. No.

And within that scenario, you've yanked the most productive hitter of the evening out of the lineup. Well, if you get lucky and tie it up with infield grounders, eventually you're going to have to win it.

Your most productive hitter isn't going to hit again if you don't tie the game. Your chances of winning the game increase dramatically if it's 2-1 after eight. But even then, I'm not talking about sacrificing down by two runs in the eight. I am pointing out that if Lillibridge steals second, the White Sox have a good chance to score even if they don't get a hit. Maybe if it's 2-1, Morrow doesn't stay in the game for the ninth. Maybe he walks De Aza to lead off the ninth, Beckham sacrifices and you have Dunn and Viciedo with a chance to tie or win the game.

If Pierzynski stays in the game, the Sox have less chance to tie it. But if they do, Toronto brings in a pitcher who matches up more in the Blue Jays' favor when he does because you're into the bullpen.

I responded to a question of what Ventura could possibly have been thinking. He wasn't sitting on the bench, watching the frustration and hoping things would change. He made a proactive move that he believed gave the White Sox a better chance to win the game.

The move is not the reason the White Sox lost tonight.

pudge
06-07-2012, 02:28 AM
Sox just can't beat these guys, period. Doesn't matter who they play or who they pitch.

Q deserved better.

Lead down to a half game.

5th time this year Sox have been shutout.

Was hoping they could have a really kick ass homestand...Seattle (bad), Toronto (mediocre), Houston (terrible) maybe go 7-2 or 6-3...now they'll be lucky to go 5-4.

What can you do.

Lip

Ah Lip - good to see some things never change. I mean come on, Peavy goes tomorrow, "lucky" to go 5-4? We'll see. Heck they might go 4-5, but who cares, they've been blazing hot, they were bound to cool off. Konerko's been out. Look at the standings, NOBODY outside of Seattle, Minnesota, and possibly OAK and KC are pushovers in the AL.

TDog
06-07-2012, 03:27 AM
Ah Lip - good to see some things never change. I mean come on, Peavy goes tomorrow, "lucky" to go 5-4? We'll see. Heck they might go 4-5, but who cares, they've been blazing hot, they were bound to cool off. Konerko's been out. Look at the standings, NOBODY outside of Seattle, Minnesota, and possibly OAK and KC are pushovers in the AL.

The first-place Rangers have lost series at home to Kansas City and Seattle and this week dropped two of three in Oakland. I'm not sure there are any pushovers in the American League this year.

It's not a matter of this team is bad or medicocre so they should lose to a better team (although the Mariners may have reason to believe the Tigers are one such team). It's a matter of some teams being more consistent amd winning more often than others.

LITTLE NELL
06-07-2012, 05:42 AM
Sometimes you run into a pitcher that just dominates a team, thats what happened last night. We need to win tonight to get back into a good frame of mind with a bad club coming in on Friday. You don't want this to turn into a major losing streak. We have given up 2 games in the standings the last 2 nights, win tonight and take at least 2 from the Astros and things should be all right.

Zakath
06-07-2012, 06:04 AM
Last night my buddy and I were looking at the Dunn Shift. He was saying if he was Dunn, he'd drop a bunt on the Third Base side and get to First. I pointed out the problem with that is Dunn is pretty slow and if the Catcher or Pitcher gets to it quick enough, he's out. It would have to a perfect bunt that comes to a rest in that no-mans' land on the line about twenty feet from the Plate.

Not necessarily a bunt, but one of those Ichiro-esque slap swings that drops the ball in no-man's land down the left field line. Do that a few times and watch the shift shift back.

TomBradley72
06-07-2012, 06:51 AM
Sox just can't beat these guys, period. Doesn't matter who they play or who they pitch.

Q deserved better.

Lead down to a half game.

5th time this year Sox have been shutout.

Was hoping they could have a really kick ass homestand...Seattle (bad), Toronto (mediocre), Houston (terrible) maybe go 7-2 or 6-3...now they'll be lucky to go 5-4.

What can you do.

Lip

If Toronto is "mediocre" than so are the White Sox- we have exactly 1 more win- they seem like a good, well managed young team to me- and we've run into 2 very good pitchers- while we're playing a little short handed (no Paulie, Dunn with flu, etc.).

beasly213
06-07-2012, 08:14 AM
Sucks losing 2 in a row but it was going to happen at some point during the year after our hot streak.

Nice thing about this year is we have 2 guys in Peavy and Sale back to back who will prevent us from having too many long losing streaks.

TheOldRoman
06-07-2012, 09:01 AM
Here's what people have to understand: Even if Dunn bunts successfully for a single, then the Sox still need three more singles after that for him to score a run. In most situations, that's not helping matters. The Sox need Dunn to hit the ball off the wall or over it.I don't buy that line of reasoning. Getting on base is better than an out. Knowing what the outcome was in his last AB on Saturday to end the game, I would have rather he tried to hit a meek single to 3B than swing like normal and ground into the shift again. Then he would have been pinch ran for and another guy would have had a chance to tie it up. Any time he gets on base is a time he didn't make an out, and we have home run hitters behind him, anyway.

I don't think Dunn should ever bunt, by the way, I just disagree with the whole "it takes three hits to score him" argument.

Chez
06-07-2012, 09:04 AM
Win tonight; pound Houston over the weekend,

The Immigrant
06-07-2012, 09:37 AM
I didn't understand that move either. It was a rally killer for sure. We finally had Morrow pitching under stress with nobody out and just like that, we let him off the hook.

I think Brent was hung out to dry on a botched hit and run, but either way it was not a good managerial move. Although, with how bad Alexei has been scuffling I can understand why Robin wanted to give it a shot.

tstrike2000
06-07-2012, 09:38 AM
Sox just can't beat these guys, period. Doesn't matter who they play or who they pitch.

Q deserved better.

Lead down to a half game.

5th time this year Sox have been shutout.

Was hoping they could have a really kick ass homestand...Seattle (bad), Toronto (mediocre), Houston (terrible) maybe go 7-2 or 6-3...now they'll be lucky to go 5-4.

What can you do.

Lip

You can't worry too much about that right now. The Sox are still in a good spot. Even with Danks, Humber, and Floyd being more than frustrating, I certainly wouldn't worry about that vaunted Cleveland Indians lineup. They're not that good. The Tigers aren't anything special after Miggy, Prince, and Verlander. The Sox will be in the hunt all season with this bad division.

doublem23
06-07-2012, 09:38 AM
I don't buy that line of reasoning. Getting on base is better than an out. Knowing what the outcome was in his last AB on Saturday to end the game, I would have rather he tried to hit a meek single to 3B than swing like normal and ground into the shift again. Then he would have been pinch ran for and another guy would have had a chance to tie it up. Any time he gets on base is a time he didn't make an out, and we have home run hitters behind him, anyway.

I don't think Dunn should ever bunt, by the way, I just disagree with the whole "it takes three hits to score him" argument.

I'm going agree here, I'd rather Dunn get on base than make an out, but the reasoning for him not to try and start poking balls down the 3B line is that it would wreck his approach at the plate. He's here because he has incredible power to his pull side and it is in his and our best interest if he keeps that consistent approach at the plate. The best way for the Sox to beat the shift is to have runners on base when he is up so defenses can't put such extreme shifts on against him.

asindc
06-07-2012, 09:41 AM
Why doesn't Dunn try to hit to the left side if 3b is open?

For the same reason that Ryan Howard and David Ortiz don't. It's not part of his approach at the plate. People have been advocating for the bunt from left-handed power-hitters for years. It's not going to happen. These guys are paid to hit the ball four hundred mother****ing feet, and not an inch less.

Actually, Ortiz has bunted and hit away from the shift many times, forcing some teams to at least modify the shift to put the SS on the 3rd base side of 2B. It seems odd to me that so many people advocate swinging away when some of the same people would gladly accept a walk in that situation.

In Dunn's best season in 2004 (based on an OPS+ of 147), he hit 80 extra base hits out of 681 PAs, good for about 11-12% of the time. He made an out 422 times, with an OBP of .388. Essentially, what some want Dunn to continue doing is continue to swing away into the shift on the 12% chance (at best, based on his best season's numbers) he will get past 1B on the play. If you want to factor in his BBs and singles, his best OBP season was in 2009 with .398. So essentially he fails to reach base 60% of the time even at his best (not a criticism, mind you, just a fact. And yes, I know this is a great OBP regardless of how it is achieved). I prefer that he take 1B every time until teams stop shifting on him. With Pauly, AJ, Tank, and Rios following him, I think the Sox can manage to score some runs with him on 1B.

asindc
06-07-2012, 09:45 AM
Sometimes you run into a pitcher that just dominates a team, thats what happened last night. We need to win tonight to get back into a good frame of mind with a bad club coming in on Friday. You don't want this to turn into a major losing streak. We have given up 2 games in the standings the last 2 nights, win tonight and take at least 2 from the Astros and things should be all right.

That sums it up well.

TheOldRoman
06-07-2012, 09:46 AM
You can't worry too much about that right now. The Sox are still in a good spot. Even with Danks, Humber, and Floyd being more than frustrating, I certainly wouldn't worry about that vaunted Cleveland Indians lineup. They're not that good. The Tigers aren't anything special after Miggy, Prince, and Verlander. The Sox will be in the hunt all season with this bad division.Yeah. Furthermore, ignore the Indians. We are up 6 on the Tigers, and that's all that matters. The Tigers are going to put up a fight and the Indians are going to spiral into oblivion again.

kufram
06-07-2012, 09:47 AM
We need Peavy to be the stopper tonight, but we need the offense to do something even more. It's never good to lose a couple of games but you're never far from losing a couple games in baseball. The important thing is to not let it get bigger than that.

We've still only lost one more game than any other team in the league so no need to sound the alarm as yet. The good news is that we are where we are without a few things firing on all cylinders of late. The hitting cooled suddenly possibly due to the quality of the opposition and a bit of injury and sickness. There is room for improvement, and no reason not to expect it, from 2 or 3 of the starters also.

As far as Dunn hitting to the left side is concerned I would point out that Dunn is a one dimensional hitter and, although not my favourite type of hitter, he is one of the best in the game. He hits for power. He drives in runs. He doesn't have the bat control that a Konerko or an AJ has. I'd love to see guys like him slap a ball down the left field line every once in a while to spoil the shift (and it does look so easy to do), but I'm sure there is a reason why they don't develop that skill. I can live with it as long as he's producing like he is this year.

cws05champ
06-07-2012, 09:47 AM
I'm going agree here, I'd rather Dunn get on base than make an out, but the reasoning for him not to try and start poking balls down the 3B line is that it would wreck his approach at the plate. He's here because he has incredible power to his pull side and it is in his and our best interest if he keeps that consistent approach at the plate. The best way for the Sox to beat the shift is to have runners on base when he is up so defenses can't put such extreme shifts on against him.
The last thing I would want is for Dunn to wreck his approach and his awesome .219 average. I say I don't want him to wreck his approach in all seriousness though....but if he would just drop the head of the bat and poke a single down the 3B line with a concerted effort to do so just one time every other series, teams would start to shift a lot less and he would get more hits to the right side.

amsteel
06-07-2012, 09:50 AM
How do we get Lillibridge and Santiago off the ML roster?

doublem23
06-07-2012, 09:58 AM
The last thing I would want is for Dunn to wreck his approach and his awesome .219 average. I say I don't want him to wreck his approach in all seriousness though....but if he would just drop the head of the bat and poke a single down the 3B line with a concerted effort to do so just one time every other series, teams would start to shift a lot less and he would get more hits to the right side.

His OPS is still Top 10 in the AL, though, so whatever, I'll live with it.

SI1020
06-07-2012, 10:06 AM
I didn't understand why the Giants released Davis (actually the A's claimed him off waivers) or why the A's traded him. Billy Beane doesn't appreciate stolen bases, I've been told, and he had to have these two Blue Jays pitching prospects.
The stolen base is anathema in the religion of sabermetrics.

hawkjt
06-07-2012, 10:20 AM
Morrow was filthy last nite. When I saw that he was hit in the leg with a line drive last week,and had to be helped off the field,I was hoping he would miss a start...turns out it just meant he was stronger than normal off of a short start. He has Chris Sale kind of stuff and is one of the best starters in the league...tip our cap type of nite.

The Jays top two pitchers,who we have faced this series, are as good a 1-2 punch as there is in the league. I would rather face the Yanks or Red Sox.

The Sox bats have cooled,collectively,not unexpected,but still painful.

Quintana is a crafty lefty type of pitcher,which is not all bad as we know...a bit of a contrast to our other starters. Being a lefty is always helpful vs some of these teams that feature great lefty hitters.
I hope we keep him around,and maybe go to 6 man rotation to ease the pressure on Jake and Chris Sale.

We need a big effort from Jake tonite,no doubt. Just get us to the NL games with a little momentum,please,Jake!
Hurry back,PK!

Bucky F. Dent
06-07-2012, 10:36 AM
We need a big effort from Jake tonite,no doubt. Just get us to the NL games with a little momentum,please,Jake!
Hurry back,PK!


+1 Peavy needs to stop this little slide. This is one of those nights when you need your veteran starter to give you a dominant performance.

Hartman
06-07-2012, 11:05 AM
I'm concerned that the party's over and that the corpseball has returned. Last night was dreadful.

kittle42
06-07-2012, 11:23 AM
The last thing I would want is for Dunn to wreck his approach and his awesome .219 average. I say I don't want him to wreck his approach in all seriousness though....but if he would just drop the head of the bat and poke a single down the 3B line with a concerted effort to do so just one time every other series, teams would start to shift a lot less and he would get more hits to the right side.

Sigh. A lot of comments on hitting from people who I am guessing don't have a great grasp of professional hitters and how different baseball players treat hitting and what they are capable of.

Maybe he simply cannot do it, much like he simply cannot cut his strikeout rate without changing the other, much more important to him aspects of his hitting style.

It's all easy when we're playing a video game.

And the average issue? Give it a rest. The guy is Top 10 in the AL in OPS and has been very, very valuable this season playing like he always has except one really freaky outlier season in 2011.

Foulke You
06-07-2012, 11:42 AM
I'm concerned that the party's over and that the corpseball has returned. Last night was dreadful.
I'm not concerned yet. We faced their #1 and #2 pitchers versus our #5 and #6. They are a team that we traditionally struggle with. Also, we played without our best hitter and that flu bug is running through the clubhouse. Dunn and Ramirez were sick yesterday but gutted through it. We'll be fine. Astros are coming to town for 3 games this weekend and Carlos Lee is on the DL. Some NL Central pitching will perk this team right up. We won't be facing anything close to the quality of Romero or Morrow this weekend.

JB98
06-07-2012, 12:35 PM
The last thing I would want is for Dunn to wreck his approach and his awesome .219 average. I say I don't want him to wreck his approach in all seriousness though....but if he would just drop the head of the bat and poke a single down the 3B line with a concerted effort to do so just one time every other series, teams would start to shift a lot less and he would get more hits to the right side.

I'll bet you they wouldn't. Opposing teams will gladly give Dunn singles to left field in order to keep him in the ballpark.

Funny how nobody was suggesting Dunn bunt about three weeks ago when he was tearing the cover off the ball.

He needs to stay with his approach. He'll get hot again.

asindc
06-07-2012, 12:58 PM
I'll bet you they wouldn't. Opposing teams will gladly give Dunn singles to left field in order to keep him in the ballpark.

Funny how nobody was suggesting Dunn bunt about three weeks ago when he was tearing the cover off the ball.

He needs to stay with his approach. He'll get hot again.

I'm not suggesting bunting, I'm suggesting hitting to the left side. By the way, do opposing teams gladly walk him in order to keep him in the ballpark?

doublem23
06-07-2012, 01:03 PM
I'm not suggesting bunting, I'm suggesting hitting to the left side. By the way, do opposing teams gladly walk him in order to keep him in the ballpark?

The 108 career intentional walks suggest that sometimes, yes, they do

delben91
06-07-2012, 01:09 PM
I'm concerned that the party's over and that the corpseball has returned. Last night was dreadful.

Two bad offensive nights against two good pitchers and without our top offensive player and you're ready to throw in the towel?

Wow.

asindc
06-07-2012, 01:13 PM
The 108 career intentional walks suggest that sometimes, yes, they do

Out of 6806 PAs. Yeah, that really shows that teams are desperately trying to avoid the less than 10% of the time he hits a HR.

doublem23
06-07-2012, 01:17 PM
Out of 6806 PAs. Yeah, that really shows that teams are desperately trying to avoid the less than 10% of the time he hits a HR.

And how often do they put the shift on? Isn't them shifting basically saying, fine, hit a single to LF, just don't jack one to RF?

RKMeibalane
06-07-2012, 01:30 PM
"Many teams have the shift on for players like Thome and Dunn. What the Blue Jays did tonight, they had the third baseman in short right field.

This is Major League baseball, should we have rules that make guys stay in the general area of the position that they play. Really starting to bother him.
Frank said he would be four for four, take the avg. night. He would lay down four bunts. If they're going to leave the whole left side open, a hits a hit."

I don't want Dunn laying down bunts or changing his approach at the plate. He's on the Sox roster to hit. The days of "grinders" and slap-hitters are over.

JB98
06-07-2012, 01:37 PM
I'm not suggesting bunting, I'm suggesting hitting to the left side. By the way, do opposing teams gladly walk him in order to keep him in the ballpark?

Yes, they do. He has walked 100 or more times in a season eight times during the first 11 years of his MLB career. He's on pace to make it nine out of 12.

asindc
06-07-2012, 01:57 PM
Yes, they do. He has walked 100 or more times in a season eight times during the first 11 years of his MLB career. He's on pace to make it nine out of 12.

Gladly? I doubt it.

SI1020
06-07-2012, 02:01 PM
I don't want Dunn laying down bunts or changing his approach at the plate. He's on the Sox roster to hit. The days of "grinders" and slap-hitters are over. Don't look at my comments in the thread about ban the shift in Talking Baseball.

kittle42
06-07-2012, 04:52 PM
Out of 6806 PAs. Yeah, that really shows that teams are desperately trying to avoid the less than 10% of the time he hits a HR.

Do some research before posting.

It ranks him 101 *all-time* and 15 active.

That's a lot of IBBs.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/IBB_career.shtml

JB98
06-07-2012, 05:15 PM
Gladly? I doubt it.

On some occasions, yes, on some occasions, no.

I'm sure they weren't glad to walk Dunn last season. This season, I've seen Dunn pitched around on several occasions.

asindc
06-07-2012, 05:37 PM
Do some research before posting.

It ranks him 101 *all-time* and 15 active.

That's a lot of IBBs.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/IBB_career.shtml

I did research it. That represents less than 2% of his total PAs. Like I said, desperately avoiding pitching to him. Do some analysis before posting.

kittle42
06-07-2012, 05:47 PM
I did research it. That represents less than 2% of his total PAs. Like I said, desperately avoiding pitching to him. Do some analysis before posting.

OK, and what is the % of the guys who rank above him?

1st is Bonds at 688/12606. 5.5%. Admittedly very high.

2nd is Aaron at 293/13090. 2.3%. That is SECOND ALL TIME.

Dunn is not so far off from that. He's barely outside the top 100 players ever in IBB numbers. That's a lot of IBBs, comparatively.

Is 2.3% - second all-time - "desperately avoiding" someone?