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View Full Version : *Official* 'All Good Things Must Come To An End' SEA vs SOX 6/2 Post Game Thread


soxinem1
06-02-2012, 08:26 PM
Let's start a new streak tomorrow, win the series, and go from there....

Brian26
06-02-2012, 08:28 PM
Bitch about Floyd, but Hudson lost the damn game for us.

soxnut1018
06-02-2012, 08:28 PM
Can't win 'em all. Start a new one tomorrow.

guillensdisciple
06-02-2012, 08:28 PM
Well, win tomorrow. Crappy game.

I still dislike Gavin Floyd. Beckham is slowly getting on my good side.

Boondock Saint
06-02-2012, 08:29 PM
There is something with this team and nine game win streaks.

The offense got the job done. Gavin kept burying their effort early, and the bullpen blew up at bad times.

tstrike2000
06-02-2012, 08:31 PM
Floyd had the curveball going, just too many mistakes otherwise. Can't give up two homers to Ichiro and three leadoff homers in a row. Oh well, just come back and win the series tomorrow.

CoopaLoop
06-02-2012, 08:31 PM
Let's go to a six man rotation where Floyd only pitches against the Tigers.

soxinem1
06-02-2012, 08:31 PM
There is something with this team and nine game win streaks.

The offense got the job done. Gavin kept burying their effort early, and the bullpen blew up at bad times.

So did the defense. Having a converted 2B at 3B will do that sometimes.

Dick Allen
06-02-2012, 08:31 PM
The Sox' last 3 losses have been on Gavin Floyd. Can you say "weak link"?

GoGoCrede
06-02-2012, 08:32 PM
I hate to see Floyd struggle like this, he seems like such a great guy. He will get a lot of heat for this game, but I'm willing to see if he bounces back. This season's proven that Sox players are capable of doing so.

October26
06-02-2012, 08:32 PM
Sox offense kept battling all day. Can't win 'em all. Win tomorrow.

PS: And what GoGoCrede said above. Still rooting for Gavin.

soxinem1
06-02-2012, 08:33 PM
There is something with this team and nine game win streaks.

The offense got the job done. Gavin kept burying their effort early, and the bullpen blew up at bad times.

I'll be honest with you. I do not like long winning streaks. They make you seem better than you are and don't happen all that often.

I'd rather win 4-5 in a row, lose 1-2, win 3-4 in a row, etc., etc. That means you are consistent, and more realistic ass-kickers.

LoveYourSuit
06-02-2012, 08:33 PM
Bitch about Floyd, but Hudson lost the damn game for us.

Hudson joined this team less than 2 weeks ago. Picked up from the scraps.

Gavin, like Danks, haven't done anything for this team and were expected to be anchors for this staff since they have been here so long.

Lip Man 1
06-02-2012, 08:33 PM
Especially now that the Sox look like legit contenders in the division you simply can't piss away games to terrible teams. Period.

5th game this year the Sox lost when taking a lead into the 7th inning or later.

1-3 in extra inning games this season.

Second straight game the bullpen has looked bad.

Gavin Floyd is terrible... hasn't progressed much if at all since 2008.

Kenny's going to need to get starting pitching.

Just a bad day all around. Win the ****ing series tomorrow...(I hope.)

Lip

doublem23
06-02-2012, 08:36 PM
Yawn

GoGoCrede
06-02-2012, 08:37 PM
Just win the series and it's fine.

Soxman219
06-02-2012, 08:37 PM
Oh well, start a new 9-game win streak tomorrow. Sale has to go deep tomorrow.

LoveYourSuit
06-02-2012, 08:40 PM
Especially now that the Sox look like legit contenders in the division you simply can't piss away games to terrible teams. Period.

5th game this year the Sox lost when taking a lead into the 7th inning or later.

1-3 in extra inning games this season.

Second straight game the bullpen has looked bad.

Gavin Floyd is terrible... hasn't progressed much if at all since 2008.

Kenny's going to need to get starting pitching.

Just a bad day all around. Win the ****ing series tomorrow...(I hope.)

Lip

Lip,

The bullpen is looking bad because it is being overworked. Peavy and now Sale appear like the only guys who can give you 6 solid maybe 7 every time. The other 3 guys struggle to get past 5.

LITTLE NELL
06-02-2012, 08:41 PM
Hudson did not look good today, before today I wanted Morel to spend some time down at Charlotte to try to get a swing, but now I'm not so sure. It seems like the ball always has a way of finding your weakest defensive player.
Not all his fault, the guy is a second baseman.

CoopaLoop
06-02-2012, 08:42 PM
Especially now that the Sox look like legit contenders in the division you simply can't piss away games to terrible teams. Period.

5th game this year the Sox lost when taking a lead into the 7th inning or later.

1-3 in extra inning games this season.

Second straight game the bullpen has looked bad.

Gavin Floyd is terrible... hasn't progressed much if at all since 2008.

Kenny's going to need to get starting pitching.

Just a bad day all around. Win the ****ing series tomorrow...(I hope.)

Lip

You are right every contender sweeps every terrible team every time.

slavko
06-02-2012, 08:43 PM
Bitch about Floyd, but Hudson lost the damn game for us.

The truth is the truth. And that is the truth.

Lip Man 1
06-02-2012, 08:49 PM
Coopa:

Contenders also don't blow games after the 7th inning as often as the Sox have the past few years either. (I can provide the numbers if you really want...) Those are games that are ready to be put in the win column and then snatched away...those games loom BIG in September don't they?

Four of the five games the Sox have blown this year for example have come against teams that right now have losing records.

There's a reason those teams have losing records...they aren't very good.

Lip

Brian26
06-02-2012, 08:51 PM
Hudson joined this team less than 2 weeks ago. Picked up from the scraps.

Gavin, like Danks, haven't done anything for this team and were expected to be anchors for this staff since they have been here so long.

The truth is the truth. And that is the truth.

I don't care who the anchors of the staff were supposed to be. I'm just talking about today. If Hudson catches a completely catchable throw from AJ and puts the tag down, the Sox win their 10th in a row. It's a crappy way to end the streak.

slavko
06-02-2012, 09:02 PM
I don't care who the anchors of the staff were supposed to be. I'm just talking about today. If Hudson catches a completely catchable throw from AJ and puts the tag down, the Sox win their 10th in a row. It's a crappy way to end the streak.

Don't ignore that he turned an infield single into a 2 run double (Ryan). Anyone stops that ball. I stop that ball. You stop that ball.

He didn't get his glove down on AJ's throw. Should have been an easy out.

kevingrt
06-02-2012, 09:03 PM
Lip,

The bullpen is looking bad because it is being overworked. Peavy and now Sale appear like the only guys who can give you 6 solid maybe 7 every time. The other 3 guys struggle to get past 5.

Sox are right in the middle of the league in innings pitched by relievers at 153 though.

Lip Man 1
06-02-2012, 09:08 PM
Kevin:

Love may have a point though. It's not just the innings pitched in games, you have to factor in the times a pitcher warms-up. I know many MLB teams track warm-up pitches too when making decisions.

It all adds up.

Lip

ChiSoxGal85
06-02-2012, 09:12 PM
Can't win 'em all. Start a new one tomorrow.
Yep.

Regarding Hudson - he's been a great temporary stopgap. But this is why the game is not just about hitting. Good defensive players can make or break a game, as we've seen.

sox1970
06-02-2012, 09:17 PM
Sox are right in the middle of the league in innings pitched by relievers at 153 though.

My problem with the Sox bullpen is that they haven't leaned on Zach Stewart enough as a long reliever. If they don't trust him, fine. Bring in Axelrod or Doyle from AAA. But they need a long reliever/spot starter that would give 80-90 innings to keep the other guys fresh for the close games the Sox are holding on to a 1-3 run lead.

kevingrt
06-02-2012, 09:18 PM
My problem with the Sox bullpen is that they haven't leaned on Zach Stewart enough as a long reliever. If they don't trust him, fine. Bring in Axelrod or Doyle from AAA. But they need a long reliever/spot starter that would give 80-90 innings to keep the other guys fresh for the close games the Sox are holding on to a 1-3 run lead.

Completely agree. When Stewart comes in they have to figure 2+ innings from him. Ventura cannot use him for one batter or else stuff like today happens.

cws05champ
06-02-2012, 09:19 PM
I hate to see Floyd struggle like this, he seems like such a great guy. He will get a lot of heat for this game, but I'm willing to see if he bounces back. This season's proven that Sox players are capable of doing so.

I have a feeling that Floyd will have a big bounce back in the 2nd half....hopefully Danks will as well. If Sale/Peavy can keep it going it could be fun.
Just too many mistakes in this game to win....

sox1970
06-02-2012, 09:22 PM
I have a feeling that Floyd will have a big bounce back in the 2nd half....hopefully Danks will as well. If Sale/Peavy can keep it going it could be fun.
Just too many mistakes in this game to win....

Floyd's track record:

Bad for 11 starts
Good for 11 starts
Mediocre for 11 starts

Today was his 11th start.

mahagga73
06-02-2012, 09:38 PM
Let's start a new streak tomorrow, win the series, and go from there....
Gavin Floyd s@#$%%He has to be the most erratic pitcher I have ever seen.It's been several years now with the Sox,and while he has great stuff,for some reason he cannot keep his concentration .He has a million dollar arm and a ten cent head basically.

DickAllen72
06-02-2012, 09:43 PM
Costly loss for the Sox because of the overworking of the bullpen. Now they need to rely on Sale to go very deep tomorrow.

Get well soon, Morel.

mahagga73
06-02-2012, 09:43 PM
My problem with the Sox bullpen is that they haven't leaned on Zach Stewart enough as a long reliever. If they don't trust him, fine. Bring in Axelrod or Doyle from AAA. But they need a long reliever/spot starter that would give 80-90 innings to keep the other guys fresh for the close games the Sox are holding on to a 1-3 run lead.
Stewart is mediocre at best.Garbage time is the only time he can be trusted.He couldn't even get the ball over the plate today.

TDog
06-02-2012, 09:47 PM
So did the defense. Having a converted 2B at 3B will do that sometimes.


That really did end up being the difference in the game.

Floyd didn't have a good start, but he kept the Sox in the game. Anytime you're at home and you take a two-run lead into the eighth inning, you should win the game. Solid defense, which the White Sox have been playing of late, wins this game.

Of course, during this streak, Hudson made a play at third that probably ended up being the difference between winning and losing. But Hudson hasn't been as consistent as you would like. And it appears teams are testing him defensively. In the eighth today, Ryan played like he had something to show the White Sox because he still believes he didn't swing at the last pitch in Humber's perfect game.

In another sense, the game was lost because Ventura didn't leave Floyd in longer. It wasn't that Floyd was certain to have pitched effectively. Ventura probably saw that he had no choice but to take Floyd out. But by going to the bullpen so soon, especially by playing the game in the sixth as if it was the seventh or later, he limited his moves later in the game. He was out of relievers by the time he got to Reed, thanks to Viciedo, or rather the hitters behind him who could get on base against a surprise 100-mph fastball out of the Mariners bullpen (if not the defense). After Reed's inning, he should have been able to go to Stewart with the ability to go long relief, but he had used Stewart and Ohman to protect a middle-inning one-run lead.

Ventura has worked to not overwork the bullpen. Some fans believe he leaves starters in too long, but bullpen's are most effective when they aren't overworked. Suddenly, after Quintana's ejection Wednesday, the bullpen is getting a lot of work this week.

But you have to get a lot of breaks to put together a nine-game winning streak. The longer your streak goes, the more likely it is breaks will go against you. Even the 2005 White Sox couldn't manage to win their last 16 games. They had to work a one-run loss between the two eight-game streaks.

I hope Sale is on Sunday and can go deep, with the Sox supporting him in a ballpark which has been playing very small of late.

LongLiveFisk
06-02-2012, 10:17 PM
Damn, finally got out to see a Sox game and this is the crap I get.

Oh well, at least I got a nice Carlton Fisk replica statue so it wasn't a total loss.

Frontman
06-02-2012, 10:22 PM
Can't win 'em all, but the Sox did enough to let the Mariners win. Horrid throw by AJ to Hudson. Bad play by Hudson on that one down the line. I really thought De Aza hurt himself bad when he went down. Glad he was ok.

Sox will get 'em tomorrow.

soxinem1
06-02-2012, 10:33 PM
My problem with the Sox bullpen is that they haven't leaned on Zach Stewart enough as a long reliever. If they don't trust him, fine. Bring in Axelrod or Doyle from AAA. But they need a long reliever/spot starter that would give 80-90 innings to keep the other guys fresh for the close games the Sox are holding on to a 1-3 run lead.

I hear DJ Carrasco is available.... :D:

mmmmmbeeer
06-02-2012, 10:37 PM
Hudson is new to 3b...he should get a bit of slack, especially on the steal attempt. Ryan's double was right over the bag, barely fair, not a routine play.

I've been very impressed with Robin this season but his management of the bullpen today was atrocious. I know Jones was a little under the weather but, as we saw, he was able to pitch and pitch well. My jaw dropped when Crain came back out to pitch in the 8th. Jones should have been in and passed it to Reed to close it out. Crain just pitched last night and then you use him the next day in 2 innings? C'mon....not a good decision. Not to mention burning through 3 pitchers in the 6th.

TDog
06-02-2012, 10:45 PM
Coopa:

Contenders also don't blow games after the 7th inning as often as the Sox have the past few years either. (I can provide the numbers if you really want...) Those are games that are ready to be put in the win column and then snatched away...those games loom BIG in September don't they?

Four of the five games the Sox have blown this year for example have come against teams that right now have losing records.

There's a reason those teams have losing records...they aren't very good.

Lip

You are simply overreacting.

Before coming to Chicago, the Mariners won two of three games in Texas, scoring at least 10 runs in each of their two wins. They scored 21 in their second win.

This year every contender has been blowing leads from the seventh inning on at least as often as the White Sox have. And today's bullpen may have turned in a better performance if the White Sox had an experienced third baseman playing third.

The Immigrant
06-02-2012, 10:48 PM
Gavin Floyd s@#$%%He has to be the most erratic pitcher I have ever seen.It's been several years now with the Sox,and while he has great stuff,for some reason he cannot keep his concentration .He has a million dollar arm and a ten cent head basically.

His velocity is down big time. Not so sure he has great stuff right now. Hopefully it comes back.

sullythered
06-02-2012, 11:10 PM
His velocity is down big time. Not so sure he has great stuff right now. Hopefully it comes back.

His average velocity is down only 0.5 mph from last year. I wouldn't exactly call that "big time."

Lip Man 1
06-02-2012, 11:50 PM
Gavin's ERA is over 11 in his last three starts.

:o:

Lip

JB98
06-03-2012, 12:54 AM
Especially now that the Sox look like legit contenders in the division you simply can't piss away games to terrible teams. Period.

5th game this year the Sox lost when taking a lead into the 7th inning or later.

1-3 in extra inning games this season.

Second straight game the bullpen has looked bad.

Gavin Floyd is terrible... hasn't progressed much if at all since 2008.

Kenny's going to need to get starting pitching.

Just a bad day all around. Win the ****ing series tomorrow...(I hope.)

Lip

Lip,

The Tigers are 1-5 against Seattle this season. The Sox are 4-1. Don't lose too much sleep over losing one game to the Mariners.

I will say I have not been happy with the bullpen the last two days. Yes, Floyd sucked, but the Sox still had a 7-5 lead with six outs to get. When a relief pitcher walks the leadoff hitter, that's usually bad news. That was the case in the eighth inning today.

I will commend the offense. They rallied from a deficit on four occasions today. Thanks to the poor pitching, it wasn't enough.

Foulke You
06-03-2012, 01:13 AM
Get well soon, Morel.
Yeah, I can't wait for 0 for 4 with 2 KS, GIDP, and a 6-3 ground out that Morel brings to the table. Hudson's first bad defensive day and everyone is out with the pitchforks and torches for the guy. He is a stop gap who has given us some quality at bats and up until today, hadn't hurt us much with the glove. Let's not judge him based on one really bad game.

Also, people can blame Hudson if they want and he did have an awful game, but for me, this loss is on Gavin. Four HRs given up in four straight innings put the Sox in the uphill climb from the beginning. We need him to be better. As a previous poster pointed out, he has a track record for being on and off. I just hope the "on" portion comes back to him soon.

RKMeibalane
06-03-2012, 01:14 AM
Get well soon, Morel.

What the hell is this ****?

QCIASOXFAN
06-03-2012, 01:16 AM
Can't win 'em all, but the Sox did enough to let the Mariners win. Horrid throw by AJ to Hudson. Bad play by Hudson on that one down the line. I really thought De Aza hurt himself bad when he went down. Glad he was ok.

Sox will get 'em tomorrow.
I just got home and was scouring the net for De Aza updates after seeing that happen when I was out and about earlier. I was literally just telling my buddy how awesome of a leadoff guy De AZA is for the Sox and than he just dropped like a sack of potatoes.:o: Super glad to hear everything is fine.

SoxSpeed22
06-03-2012, 01:39 AM
Between the Tampa series and now this game, De Aza's knees are kind of a concern and I think he should get the day off tomorrow.

billyvsox
06-03-2012, 02:22 AM
Hudson joined this team less than 2 weeks ago. Picked up from the scraps.

Gavin, like Danks, haven't done anything for this team and were expected to be anchors for this staff since they have been here so long.

I agree that Floyd and Danks have not developed much at all. But they are both giys that KW traded for and we all no how stubborn he is about "his guys". Thats why they are both still here and Buehrle is gone.

In fact the entire pitching staff are his pick ups or his drafted guys.

Nellie_Fox
06-03-2012, 02:32 AM
I agree that Floyd and Danks have not developed much at all. But they are both giys that KW traded for and we all no how stubborn he is about "his guys". Thats why they are both still here and Buehrle is gone.

In fact the entire pitching staff are his pick ups or his drafted guys.You do realize that this is bound to happen, given enough time. It's not evidence of stubbornness or some conspiracy. He's been GM for quite a while now. Eventually, everybody on the team will be his pick ups or drafted guys.

kufram
06-03-2012, 03:52 AM
I enjoyed the game. Ok, not the 12th. It is silly to find doom and gloom in this game. We lost. You are going to lose baseball games.... at least 60 of them. A couple of players could have done a couple of things better. You can call Seattle a bad team if you want, but ask Texas about that right now.

What matters is how they come back from this loss. Just win today and move on. Hudson has been ok. Morel may have looked as bad as he did because of injury.... it would explain his horrible body language at the plate.

Why get down on them when they've won 13 of 15 or something like that? I mean, give me (them) a break. There are so many reasons we should be positive.

There is only one team in the AL with a better record and Seattle killed them the other day. There are times to get down on a team. This ain't one of them in my opinion.

doublem23
06-03-2012, 05:38 AM
Costly loss for the Sox because of the overworking of the bullpen. Now they need to rely on Sale to go very deep tomorrow.

Get well soon, Morel.

Eh, they have a day off Monday and a few arms down there haven't been particularly overworked. I'd guess Reed is the only guy DEFINITELY out for tomorrow.

doublem23
06-03-2012, 05:42 AM
I agree that Floyd and Danks have not developed much at all. But they are both giys that KW traded for and we all no how stubborn he is about "his guys". Thats why they are both still here and Buehrle is gone.

Buehrle is gone because the Marlins payed him an insane amount of money. It has nothing to do with any bull**** conspiracy theories.

TomBradley72
06-03-2012, 06:11 AM
My $0.02:


Overall- the team started to look a little "ragged" and tired the last 2 games (2 pop ups dropping Friday night, Hudson's plays on Saturday, bullpen performance)- 10 consecutive games with the same line up- I think the guys were getting a little gassed. Konerko and Dunn have really cooled off for now.
I like Hudson- but yesterday demonstrates how defense can impact this team- I'm surprised people don't give Morel more slack now that it's clear he had a back injury to deal with plus some mysterious weight loss thing going on- if his health means we can get a .250 batting average with his solid defense- I'd want him getting at least 2/3's of the starts at 3rd.
The actually NEED a Sunday line up today- I'd expecf De Aza and AJ to be getting days off
But they fight- they just keep fighting and coming back- Viciedo goes deep opposite field to tie it late in the game- very clutch and very impressive.

gobears1987
06-03-2012, 06:27 AM
Gavin still sucks. Now that I said that, he will be awesome next game just to give us false hope before sucking again.

MetroPD
06-03-2012, 06:28 AM
My thoughts are this:

1.) Jones looked fantastic with really good control.
2.) Reed still looks terrible and shouldn't be the closer
3.) Paulie looked a little frustrated and may be coming back down to earth
4.) DeAza was a fantastic pickup
5.) Sox still look pretty good overall.

doublem23
06-03-2012, 08:43 AM
My thoughts are this:

1.) Jones looked fantastic with really good control.
2.) Reed still looks terrible and shouldn't be the closer
3.) Paulie looked a little frustrated and may be coming back down to earth
4.) DeAza was a fantastic pickup
5.) Sox still look pretty good overall.

Reed looks "terrible?" Good ****ing god, 1 loss in 10 games and this thread goes completely insane.

doublem23
06-03-2012, 08:46 AM
I like Hudson- but yesterday demonstrates how defense can impact this team- I'm surprised people don't give Morel more slack now that it's clear he had a back injury to deal with plus some mysterious weight loss thing going on- if his health means we can get a .250 batting average with his solid defense- I'd want him getting at least 2/3's of the starts at 3rd


Still a pretty large leap of faith to think Morel can hit. 250. If the Sox are going to add pieces they need a 3B more than anything.

Chez
06-03-2012, 09:00 AM
Still a pretty large leap of faith to think Morel can hit. 250. If the Sox are going to add pieces they need a 3B more than anything.

Now that Beckham and Viciedo have warmed up and Ramirez seems to be getting there, you can live with Morel and his solid D -- even if he only hits .220. Morel's woes at the plate were magnified a few weeks ago when the entire lower third of the order were automatic outs.

Tough loss Saturday. I've been impressed all year at how this team battles till the end. Sox scored 8 with Dunn and Konerko a combined 0 for 10. Win today.

Moses_Scurry
06-03-2012, 09:14 AM
You do realize that this is bound to happen, given enough time. It's not evidence of stubbornness or some conspiracy. He's been GM for quite a while now. Eventually, everybody on the team will be his pick ups or drafted guys.

Yeah right. Wouldn't the hypothetical new guys replacing Danks and/or Floyd also be "Kenny's guys"?

doublem23
06-03-2012, 09:16 AM
Yeah right. Wouldn't the hypothetical new guys replacing Danks and/or Floyd also be "Kenny's guys"?

Not if we bring back Jack McDowell, Wilson Alvarez, and Jason Bere. Winning this division 1993-style, baby!

hawkjt
06-03-2012, 09:48 AM
My notions:

1. Soxpark is playing tiny right now,and only promises to be worse as the weather gets even hotter this summer. The wind was howling to right yesterday,with a M's lineup packed with young strong lefty hitters,and a Gavin on the mound who was up in the zone again.....deadly combo. The M's remind me of the Tribe, a team full of young strong leftys also. The whole AL Central seems to have a bunch of young strong lefty hitters,outside of the Sox. Sox could use another lefty starter to counter it. Quintana maybe in spot starts?

2. Gavin was up in the zone yesterday,but his velocity was fine and his breaking ball was good. They hit every single mistake hard. The M's are on fire offensively right now,with 44 runs in their last 4 games!! Hopefully Chris Sale can cool them down a bit...then goodbye and good riddance.
The Sox were 20-3 against the M's in their last 23 going into yesterday...I guess they were due?

3. O-Dog did not have a great day with the glove but AJ's throw was in the dirt...Hudson should have dropped down and blocked it,but if he picks it and gets the out,it would have been a huge play. So, blame is shared..AJ's throw turned the play from an out, to a salvage situation.
As for the grounder over the base by Ryan, that was barely fair,so I don't think it was some kind of automatic out or even an infield single..he was gold glove at 2nd,not 3rd.

4. The Sox offense continue to shine. Noesi had 5 quality starts in his last six outings, going into yesterday...and the Sox shelled him. Again, that park was unfair for pitchers yesterday,almost.

5. I agree that this is where the early ejection of Quintana on Wed. came back to bite the Sox...thanks a lot,Wegner! The Joe West balk call was again ridiculous,altho it did not cost the Sox, but it almost felt like MLB assigned West to the Sox just to test Hawk's newfound restraint. And making sure that West works 1st base,and today behind the plate just seems so perfect to test Hawk. It was very amusing to listen to Stoney kind of bait Hawk on the balk...and Hawk could not resist quietly flatly stating the truth..''not a balk''. I was so proud of Hawk...he did not rant,but he ain't backing away from the truth either!:D: Screw Bud!

6. Go get'm today,boys!

Over By There
06-03-2012, 09:54 AM
Why get down on them when they've won 13 of 15 or something like that?

Because WSI postgame thread following loss.

doublem23
06-03-2012, 09:56 AM
Because WSI postgame thread following loss.

Don't you know the Mariners are a bad team and bad teams NEVER beat good teams (don't mind those 2 wins they had over the Rangers before entering this series). Good baseball teams never, ever, ever lose games ever.

hawkjt
06-03-2012, 10:03 AM
Don't you know the Mariners are a bad team and bad teams NEVER beat good teams (don't mind those 2 wins they had over the Rangers before entering this series). Good baseball teams never, ever, ever lose games ever.

I concurr.
Actually,the M's took 2 of 3 from the lowly Rangers twice in the last 3 series before hitting Chicago. This M's lineup has scored 44 runs in their last 4 games....they are hot right now,and that is what matters.

doublem23
06-03-2012, 10:06 AM
I concurr.
Actually,the M's took 2 of 3 from the lowly Rangers twice in the last 3 series before hitting Chicago. This M's lineup has scored 44 runs in their last 4 games....they are hot right now,and that is what matters.

Yep. Sale's been hot lately so let's just get that series win today, take a deserved day off Monday, and get ready for another tough series with a good Blue Jays team before 15 straight games against teams from the Powderpuff League.

oldgrouch
06-03-2012, 10:12 AM
Especially now that the Sox look like legit contenders in the division you simply can't piss away games to terrible teams. Period.

5th game this year the Sox lost when taking a lead into the 7th inning or later.

1-3 in extra inning games this season.

Second straight game the bullpen has looked bad.

Gavin Floyd is terrible... hasn't progressed much if at all since 2008.

Kenny's going to need to get starting pitching.

Just a bad day all around. Win the ****ing series tomorrow...(I hope.)

Lip

The Phillies let Gavin go for a reason. KW thinks Coop make a pitcher out of any stiff he picks up.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

sox1970
06-03-2012, 10:22 AM
Floyd has been what he's always been.

11 starts, 5 quality, 66 innings, and the Sox are 5-6 when he starts. That's pretty much par for the course with him the first couple months of the season.

He's his best in the middle 11 starts, so let's see what he brings from June 8 to early August.

doublem23
06-03-2012, 10:23 AM
The Phillies let Gavin go for a reason. KW thinks Coop make a pitcher out of any stiff he picks up.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Oh give me a break. The Phillies gave up Gavin because the Sox gave them Freddy Garcia, who was coming off a pair of seasons in which he won a combined 30 games and had an ERA+ of 110.

Floyd's been a good pitcher since he joined the Sox, 6 years, 210 IP per 162 G, ERA, WHIP, QS% all better than the league average for that time, the only thing he doesn't have to show for it is a nice, sparkly record (which means, of course, absolutely nothing but people still cling to it because the 1950s are going to come back any day now!!!1!) because the Sox bullpen and offense keeps blowing games for him (17 wins lost by the bullpen and 15 losses in QS in his tenure here).

I know, every pitcher who isn't a Cy Young candidate every year "sucks" and needs to be run out of town, but this is even pretty far fetched. Even if Floyd is breaking down and his career with the Sox will be over soon, they've gotten almost 150 starts and 1,000 IP from him that's been consistently better than league average. Hard to argue with that.

****ing ridiculous.

oldgrouch
06-03-2012, 10:29 AM
The Phillies let Gavin go for a reason. KW thinks Coop make a pitcher out of any stiff he picks up.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Here are Gavin's record and stats. He has always had trouble with the gopher:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/floydga01.shtml

Tragg
06-03-2012, 11:13 AM
Oh give me a break. The Phillies gave up Gavin because the Sox gave them Freddy Garcia, who was coming off a pair of seasons in which he won a combined 30 games and had an ERA+ of 110..

Well Floyd had been unsuccessful in his major league efforts with the Phillies. He wasn't a failed prospect, but was stunted some (and so was Carlos Quentin when we got him) and trending down.
We also got Gio Gonazles (and then gave him away; but we did get him in that trade).
The Phillies were never going to trade 2 "A" pitching prospects for 30 year old Freddy Garcia, who was a 2 starter at his best (and generally a 3). We got a former A in Floyd, and sort of a B+ in Gonzales.
Still, I'm not sure I get the Floyd complaints. He's a little too inconsistent, but as the #4 man on a staff, he's fine. Gonzales is a solid 2. One of Williams' best trades ever.

Foulke You
06-03-2012, 11:25 AM
Now that Beckham and Viciedo have warmed up and Ramirez seems to be getting there, you can live with Morel and his solid D -- even if he only hits .220. Morel's woes at the plate were magnified a few weeks ago when the entire lower third of the order were automatic outs.

Tough loss Saturday. I've been impressed all year at how this team battles till the end. Sox scored 8 with Dunn and Konerko a combined 0 for 10. Win today.

I disagree. In the AL, you can't afford to have a defensive specialist who is an automatic out especially at the 3B spot which is traditionally a power position. You might be able to get away with that in the NL. I'm not sold on Morel's health being the answer to his woes. KW might need to shop for a 3B at the deadline. Until then, Hudson is probably our best option.

Tragg
06-03-2012, 11:25 AM
Lip,

The Tigers are 1-5 against Seattle this season. The Sox are 4-1. Don't lose too much sleep over losing one game to the Mariners.

I will say I have not been happy with the bullpen the last two days. Yes, Floyd sucked, but the Sox still had a 7-5 lead with six outs to get. When a relief pitcher walks the leadoff hitter, that's usually bad news. That was the case in the eighth inning today.
Well relief pitchers will be relief pitchers.
We have 8 in the pen and that seems like a full pen. BUT 3 of those 8 are lefties and if all they are only situational, that really means the pen is a lot thinner. Some of the lefties have to be used for more than the lefty batter. Now they are, but Thornton is starting to show some wear.
I'm still high on Santiago - he has his weaknesses (getting the ball up like everyone else; lack of movement sometimes) but I think he can get both sides out.

kufram
06-03-2012, 11:33 AM
I guess having someone/anyone to blame for a loss makes some people feel better. The team lost. Blaming elements of that team for the loss is meaningless.

Dunn and Konerko went 0 for 10, I think... does that make the loss their fault? I doubt that the players are looking for excuses or scapegoats.

The 2nd loss in the last 15 games and some people need blood.

Lip Man 1
06-03-2012, 12:25 PM
Kufram:

I don't mind the loss...I mind HOW they lost the game.

When you take a lead into the late innings you win the game, period.

Blowing games late has absolutely, positively KILLED the Sox over the past few years.

You simply CAN'T keep giving away games.

The Sox have lost five games where they had a lead in the 7th inning or later this year.

The Sox have won ONE game where they trailed in the 7th inning or later this year.

Think those games won't matter in September?

Lip

tstrike2000
06-03-2012, 12:31 PM
Yeah, I can't wait for 0 for 4 with 2 KS, GIDP, and a 6-3 ground out that Morel brings to the table. Hudson's first bad defensive day and everyone is out with the pitchforks and torches for the guy. He is a stop gap who has given us some quality at bats and up until today, hadn't hurt us much with the glove. Let's not judge him based on one really bad game.

Also, people can blame Hudson if they want and he did have an awful game, but for me, this loss is on Gavin. Four HRs given up in four straight innings put the Sox in the uphill climb from the beginning. We need him to be better. As a previous poster pointed out, he has a track record for being on and off. I just hope the "on" portion comes back to him soon.

Some of my thoughts as well. At the same time, I'm not defending Hudson to the degree that he didn't have a bad game yesterday, he did. However, the double down the line and AJ's throw weren't automatically going to be caught by Morel. Could he have had AJ's throw? Sure he could of, but it was also in the dirt. The Sox pitching was constantly putting the defense behind the eight ball all day.

Brian26
06-03-2012, 01:07 PM
Yeah, I can't wait for 0 for 4 with 2 KS, GIDP, and a 6-3 ground out that Morel brings to the table. Hudson's first bad defensive day and everyone is out with the pitchforks and torches for the guy. He is a stop gap who has given us some quality at bats and up until today, hadn't hurt us much with the glove. Let's not judge him based on one really bad game.

Two bad defensive games in a row, including a hair-brained play Friday to ruin Peavy's no-hit bid.

Also, people can blame Hudson if they want and he did have an awful game, but for me, this loss is on Gavin. Four HRs given up in four straight innings put the Sox in the uphill climb from the beginning. No doubt, Floyd was bad. However, in this 13-out-of-15 run the team has been on, there have been multiple games where the starting pitching has been atrocious, and the bats have come back to save the day (starts by Humber and Peavy come to mind immediately). You don't hear much discussion about the starting pitcher if the Sox win 10-8. You can say Floyd shouldn't have given up four homers, but you could also say Dunn should not have struck out multiple times. Bottom line is that the game was winnable, and Hudson blew the game yesterday on two bad defensive plays late. No pitchforks necessary, but Hudson lost the game.

All the said, get the series win today.

kufram
06-03-2012, 02:20 PM
Kufram:

I don't mind the loss...I mind HOW they lost the game.

When you take a lead into the late innings you win the game, period.

Blowing games late has absolutely, positively KILLED the Sox over the past few years.

You simply CAN'T keep giving away games.

The Sox have lost five games where they had a lead in the 7th inning or later this year.

The Sox have won ONE game where they trailed in the 7th inning or later this year.

Think those games won't matter in September?

Lip

I'm sorry but games are lost in the late innings by all kind of teams.... they're called late comebacks. Last night's game will matter exactly as much as every other game in the season come September. It got away from us. Take a deep breath.

MetroPD
06-03-2012, 08:32 PM
Reed looks "terrible?" Good ****ing god, 1 loss in 10 games and this thread goes completely insane.
Its insane because my observations of our closer are less than ideal? Sorry I don't agree with your observations, but my opinion of him stands. He needs more work before he becomes our so called bonifide closer. For what its worth, I don't see anyone shouting the sky is falling, just some observations and opinions.