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View Full Version : Does this season remind anybody of 2005?


soxfandy
06-02-2012, 11:53 AM
Let me begin by saying that I am not saying this team is going to win the WS. All I'm saying is this year has a lot of similarities.

In 2005 we were not expected to compete. This season we were also not expected to compete.

We are catching a lot of timely breaks this season and we caught a ton in 05.

The pitching is solid this year as it was in 05. I'd even say this years rotation has more talent at the top end in Peavy and Sale.

We have a brand new leadoff man that seems to give the team a spark whenever on base.

I believe this years team has a lot more power in the everyday lineup. The one thing that scares me is we lack the veterans in the bullpen that the 05 team had.

With all of this being said I have found the White Sox to be a lot more fun to watch when the expectations are low going into the season. This has been one of the best seasons to watch in quite some time for me. I love watching the come back seasons of Peavy, Dunn, and Rios. I have also liked watching guys like Sale, De Aza, and Viciedo grow in front of our eyes.

Let's keep this thing rolling. Go Sox!!!

StillMissOzzie
06-02-2012, 11:56 AM
One big difference though, the Sox had that crazy string of scoring first in the first 35 games or so. They didn't win every one of those games, of course, but there was constant pressure on the opposition. I am hoping to see more of that.

SMO
:gulp:

soxfandy
06-02-2012, 12:00 PM
One big difference though, the Sox had that crazy string of scoring first in the first 35 games or so. They didn't win every one of those games, of course, but there was constant pressure on the opposition. I am hoping to see more of that.

SMO
:gulp:

Agreed. That was a crazy stat that we may never see again. Just so hard to believe when all it takes is allowing a solo shot when at home and the streak is over.

sox1970
06-02-2012, 12:02 PM
This season has its own flavor, but you pick things from different years that are similar.

1983- Last night the ball hitting Saunders in the face. Winnin' ugly. We take dat one. Hopefully Peavy and Sale will be this year's Hoyt and Dotson, with Danks being the second half version of Floyd Bannister.

1990- a very good young bullpen, a different hero every day, a calm even-keeled manager.

2005- Stacking wins, a quick start, a lot of homers. And most of all...fundamental baseball. This team, besides having the wrong closer for a month, doesn't beat themselves. The 2005 team rarely beat themselves.

central44
06-02-2012, 12:42 PM
I think mentally this Sox team is probably the strongest since 2005/2006. They seem to *expect* to win every time they step onto the field, regardless of who they play. If they fall behind, give up a lead, etc, they don't pack it in and give up--they fight back. That attitude is the attitude of championship teams, and you can tell when a team gets it.

For example--the Bulls in 2009 expected to compete. In 2010 when they started winning, the focus shifted and they expected to *win* every time they stepped on the court. I've been told the Blackhawks went through a similiar process, but I can't guarantee that because I don't follow hockey. Still though.

Oh, and the numbers are ridiculous. The Sox have scored the most runs in the division, and allowed the least. That's a really big deal imo. As a basketball coach one of my philosophies is that you want players to bring as much to the table as possible while taking off as little as possible. A team like Detroit might score a ton of runs, but if they're giving a lot of those runs back then they're taking off almost as much as they put on.

The Sox have proven they can be an elite offensive AND defensive team. That's not a flash in the pan, that's a legitimate contender--possibly the most legitimate we've had since the 2006 season.

HomeFish
06-02-2012, 12:45 PM
Reminds me a bit of the 2002 team that was in first place for a while in the early summer.

Madvora
06-02-2012, 01:38 PM
I remember looking back and some of my earliest posts about the 2005 season and I fully believed that the Sox had a chance to do something special. Around here, people were excited about that team. They weren't picked to do anything nationally, and that's why people around here were so pissed, especially with Steve Phillips's quote about them not having a chance.
This year, they were truly not picked to do anything. I don't think anyone around here could have expected what we've seen so far.

doublem23
06-02-2012, 01:39 PM
The '05 team exploded out of the gate. This team reminds me most of the 2010 team.

FoulTerritory
06-02-2012, 01:49 PM
The '05 team exploded out of the gate. This team reminds me most of the 2010 team.

Except the 2010 team was horrible fundamentally.

doublem23
06-02-2012, 01:52 PM
Except the 2010 team was horrible fundamentally.

This team was pretty so-so fundamentally until a few weeks ago

guillensdisciple
06-02-2012, 02:04 PM
Not really. Our pitching staff alone does not compare to that team. We had a solid 1 through 5 then. This year we have holes after Peavy and Sale.

WhiteSox5187
06-02-2012, 02:52 PM
This team reminds me more of the 2000 White Sox far more than 2005. I don't see this team being able to manufacture runs or wins the way the 2005 team was.

Red Barchetta
06-02-2012, 04:22 PM
There are some similarities with winning teams as with losing teams.

The main difference this year vs. last year is that Rios and Dunn are contributing. I am convinced the SOX would have won the division last year if Rios and Dunn simply played to career averages.

At this point, I am thrilled the SOX are where they are on top of the division and with the other division leaders in winning percentage. I'm a little scared with Floyd and Danks at this point. Peavy's history of injuries is always out there as well. The offense is better (Fire Walker?!) and the pitching overall has been solid.

The outfield is much better defensively and the entire team is playing fundamentally better (Ventura?!). Plus I am really enjoying the lack of drama compared to the Ozzie era.

slavko
06-02-2012, 06:17 PM
No. Not really. But euphoric is not a bad way to be, so let's all enjoy while it lasts, and may it last a long time.

DumpJerry
06-02-2012, 06:24 PM
Let me begin by saying that I am not saying this team is going to win the WS. All I'm saying is this year has a lot of similarities.

In 2005 we were not expected to compete. This season we were also not expected to compete.

We are catching a lot of timely breaks this season and we caught a ton in 05.

The pitching is solid this year as it was in 05. I'd even say this years rotation has more talent at the top end in Peavy and Sale.

We have a brand new leadoff man that seems to give the team a spark whenever on base.

I believe this years team has a lot more power in the everyday lineup. The one thing that scares me is we lack the veterans in the bullpen that the 05 team had.

With all of this being said I have found the White Sox to be a lot more fun to watch when the expectations are low going into the season. This has been one of the best seasons to watch in quite some time for me. I love watching the come back seasons of Peavy, Dunn, and Rios. I have also liked watching guys like Sale, De Aza, and Viciedo grow in front of our eyes.

Let's keep this thing rolling. Go Sox!!!
First, to answer the overall question: Not at all.
The 2005 team was picked by many to be a force to reckon with heading into Opening Day. Also, Kenny did not explicitly state or imply during the 04-05 offseason that the Sox would be rebuilding.

The '05 rotation >>>>>>>>> '12 rotation. There have been too many "days off" by Danks, Humber and Floyd this season.

The '05 team had power. They hit 200 home runs.

HomeFish
06-02-2012, 06:33 PM
Looks like Alejandro de Aza just tore his ACL. This season now reminds me of 2004.

EDIT: whew, he's OK.

soltrain21
06-02-2012, 06:41 PM
Looks like Alejandro de Aza just tore his ACL. This season now reminds me of 2004.

EDIT: whew, he's OK.

I wonder if your "whew" is heartfelt.

Lip Man 1
06-02-2012, 07:38 PM
Biggest difference has been the starting pitching. In 2005 it was 'lights-out' this season not so much (especially when you consider what Floyd and Danks have brought to the table or perhaps NOT brought to the table is more accurate.)

Lip

CoopaLoop
06-02-2012, 07:41 PM
lol no. I had expectations of being a playoff team in 05. And you know they were the best team at every check point that season.

LITTLE NELL
06-02-2012, 07:48 PM
We would have won this game today if it was 2005.

everafan
06-02-2012, 10:25 PM
As of now 05 pitching was much better. 12 offense is a bit better than 05 offense.

DumpJerry
06-02-2012, 11:38 PM
Looks like Alejandro de Aza just tore his ACL. This season now reminds me of 2004.

EDIT: whew, he's OK.
So, now you're a doctor? On the television, it was clear he rolled his ankle and did not twist his knee. Also, he was holding his ankle when he was down. By the way, the ACL is in the knee joint, not the ankle.

Foulke You
06-03-2012, 01:08 AM
Biggest difference has been the starting pitching. In 2005 it was 'lights-out' this season not so much (especially when you consider what Floyd and Danks have brought to the table or perhaps NOT brought to the table is more accurate.)

Lip

Agreed. At the moment, the '12 team doesn't have the depth of starting pitching that the '05 team had out of the gate. The '05 club was 6 deep with Buehrle, Contreras, Garcia, Garland, El Duque, and McCarthy. This year's team has a bit more inconsistency in the rotation so far. The good news is that we still have probably the best starting pitching in the Central.

WhiteSox5187
06-03-2012, 01:18 AM
So, now you're a doctor? On the television, it was clear he rolled his ankle and did not twist his knee. Also, he was holding his ankle when he was down. By the way, the ACL is in the knee joint, not the ankle.

With all the injuries in Chicago sports this year when I first saw him down on the ground and grabbing his leg kind of struggling to get up (obviously he eventually did get up but it was far from immediate) my first thought was "Oh no...he tore something..."

Moses_Scurry
06-03-2012, 06:33 AM
If Gavin or Humber can pull a second half like Contreras's 2005 second half, I'll see the connection ... and the Sox will win the World Series.

Frater Perdurabo
06-03-2012, 07:28 AM
As others are saying, this team will go as far as the starting pitching takes it. The defense will catch most of what's hit to it, but there's no defending the long ball or the walk, both of which have at times plagued the back end of our rotation.

Bucky F. Dent
06-03-2012, 04:25 PM
I don't talk about no-hitters while they are happening, and I'm not going to talk about this now.

Tragg
06-03-2012, 04:42 PM
The 2005 team was picked by many to be a force to reckon with heading into Opening Day.

BP predicted the Sox to win under 75 games in 2005.
So did Steve Phillips.
This was caused mainly by the exit of 2 major run producers Lee and Ordonez.

soxinem1
06-03-2012, 04:47 PM
Maybe when all is said and done this team will establish it's own identity and be remembered as the 2012 White Sox.

DumpJerry
06-03-2012, 04:58 PM
BP predicted the Sox to win under 75 games in 2005.
So did Steve Phillips.
This was caused mainly by the exit of 2 major run producers Lee and Ordonez.
I'm sorry. I should have said picked by many who knew what they were talking about. In mid-Feb. my WSI signature was (in large font) "bring it on!" There was a sense of optimism at WSI never felt before or since that Spring Training.

DumpJerry
06-03-2012, 05:00 PM
This team is 1977 but with hopefully a better ending.

Mingo
06-03-2012, 05:33 PM
The Sox have been in it to win every game this year - you can see this team is professional. They even play like they appreciate the game. I can't believe the quantum leap in fundamental skills of recent teams - this team hits the cutoff man - throws to the right base - makes good baserunning decisions and can flash the leather - and hits to the opposite field.

I do agree with those of you said the Sox need a 3rd pitcher to jump up and dominate in the 2nd half of the season and with Floyd, Humber and Danks - they have guys who can do it. With 3 hot starters at the end of the season - the Sox will be contenders. Long way to go until then.

LITTLE NELL
06-03-2012, 05:33 PM
This team is 1977 but with hopefully a better ending.

This team has better pitching and defense.

fram40
06-03-2012, 07:33 PM
BP predicted the Sox to win under 75 games in 2005.
So did Steve Phillips.
This was caused mainly by the exit of 2 major run producers Lee and Ordonez.

which led to a reduction of 124 fewer runs scored in '05. One might conclude that scoring that many fewer runs would lead to a worse record.

Runs allowed, however, decreased 186 runs. Pretty sure no one expected the pitching staff and defense to improve as much as they did

Railsplitter
06-03-2012, 07:43 PM
This team is 1977 but with hopefully a better ending.
Or 1983, only getting thier act together earlier in the season.

DumpJerry
06-03-2012, 09:07 PM
The heck with the above comparisons (including mine) to past teams. This team is the repudiation of the anti-Kenny crowd because he went against ALL conventional wisdom and hired Robin Ventura when there were some very good and experienced people out there.

fuzzy_patters
06-03-2012, 09:09 PM
This team reminds me of the 2000 team in that the pitching carried the team for awhile early and then it became a homerfest in late May. We'll have to wait and see if the barrage of home runs continues the rest of the summer. Finding another Herbert Perry off of the scrap heap to play third and hit bombs would help. The Milkman always delivered.

sullythered
06-03-2012, 09:24 PM
I think this team is actually better defensively, and close offensively, but the '05 team had those absolute horses in the starting rotation. Go take a look at the damn ERAs and innings pitched of the top four starters. It was INSANE.

doublem23
06-03-2012, 10:29 PM
I think this team is actually better defensively, and close offensively, but the '05 team had those absolute horses in the starting rotation. Go take a look at the damn ERAs and innings pitched of the top four starters. It was INSANE.

It was even more than that, the whole pitching staff was lights out. The Sox used a total of 17 pitchers that season, the bottom 4 accounted for only like 21 innings over a combined 20 appearances. Which essentially means the Sox used 13 pitchers over an entire season. Cotts was lights out. Politte was lights out. Hermanson was lights out (when healthy). Vizcaino and Marte we more than effective.

That pitching staff was absolutely amazing that season. Hard to believe we'll ever see another team achieve such stunning results.

1989
06-03-2012, 11:16 PM
For some reason this season reminds me more of 2008. Some parallels: Tigers overwhelming favorites to win the Central, a complete rotation, getting major offensive contributions from our left fielder (Quentin, Viciedo) and Beckham is starting to heat up at 2B like Alexei was at this time in 2008. Our third baseman is having back issues as well.

Hitmen77
06-04-2012, 08:48 AM
It's still too early for me to make parallels between this team and past Sox teams. I'm thrilled that they're doing well and optimistic that they can stay on top. But, it was only on May 17 that this team seemed to be going nowhere. I'll have a better idea of what this team reminds me of at the end of this month.

I'm not saying the Sox suck, but even sucky teams go on a 2 week hot streak. I think I have read that '76 last place team had something like a 10 game winning streak. In 2010, the Sox on 11 in a row and looked like world beaters for a 4-6 week period, but then did their typical 2nd half fade and fell to 12 games out of first by mid September.


This team is 1977 but with hopefully a better ending.

For some reason, a similarity I see between '77 and '12 is that 1977 was the Sox "rent a player" season. They knew that Zisk and Gamble would be gone at the end of the season. This year, Peavy's been an ace for us, but I think he's pretty much gone after this season unless the Sox stay hot and see a spike in attendance that will convince JR to put more into payroll. Likewise, I expect AJ to be gone too. Those will be 2 big holes to fill for 2013. It's not quite the same as '77, but for some reason, this season has a bit of that rent a player feeling to me.

For some reason this season reminds me more of 2008. Some parallels: Tigers overwhelming favorites to win the Central, a complete rotation, getting major offensive contributions from our left fielder (Quentin, Viciedo) and Beckham is starting to heat up at 2B like Alexei was at this time in 2008. Our third baseman is having back issues as well.

That 2008 team was 6 games ahead in 1st place on June 10. Similarly, this team is currently 6 games ahead of Detroit (who I still see as a bigger threat than Cleveland). That team squandered that lead and needed game 163 to make the playoffs. We'll see what happens this year.

tstrike2000
06-04-2012, 08:55 AM
which led to a reduction of 124 fewer runs scored in '05. One might conclude that scoring that many fewer runs would lead to a worse record.

Runs allowed, however, decreased 186 runs. Pretty sure no one expected the pitching staff and defense to improve as much as they did

Definitely wasn't expecting that. The defense was pretty solid and Garland, Contreras, Cotts, and Politte all having career years helped to create that perfect storm.

hawkjt
06-04-2012, 09:31 AM
This team is still taking shape.
I would never have thought the Sox would be in 1st at this point with Danks,Floyd and Humber all very erratic so far.

I do think this team has had some good luck...not facing Verlander this deep into the season is nice. Having Hafner,Castillo,and Cabrera miss the Tribe series last week was fortunate. Just saw that El Cabello went on the DL this weekend,so Sox miss him when the Astros visit this weekend.
Kemp will be out for the Dodger series.

So far, lot of fun, but like everyone, Sox are day to day.

DonnieDarko
06-04-2012, 09:45 AM
This team is still taking shape.
I would never have thought the Sox would be in 1st at this point with Danks,Floyd and Humber all very erratic so far.

I do think this team has had some good luck...not facing Verlander this deep into the season is nice. Having Hafner,Castillo,and Cabrera miss the Tribe series last week was fortunate. Just saw that El Cabello went on the DL this weekend,so Sox miss him when the Astros visit this weekend.
Kemp will be out for the Dodger series.

So far, lot of fun, but like everyone, Sox are day to day.

El *Caballo*

Domeshot17
06-04-2012, 10:43 AM
The feel of the team is very 2005. I hope at the end of the year I was very wrong on this team because I loving this season. I thought for sure if everything went right it was still a mid 80 win team. This team could be better. It feels the same in a way that the team has energy and no expectations.

That said, the way they win, I don't know, is nothing like 2005 to me. 2005 was a collection of veterans who all had career years. It all came together.

This team, its all about how Robin has them playing. One pitch at a time, one play at a time, one at bat. It is a new hero every night. We have a lot of guys posting poor stats, but they still contribute each night.

It is almost like this team is too young and too stupid to know they shouldn't be this good. They have so much heart, so much, you never feel like they are out of the game. This is an inspiring baseball team. They do not quit. I love it.

This team reminds me more of the San Francisco Giants team that won it all in a lot of ways.

sullythered
06-04-2012, 11:45 AM
Just saw that El Cabello went on the DL this weekend,so Sox miss him when the Astros visit this weekend.

The hair?

Huisj
06-04-2012, 11:51 AM
It reminds me of the 2010 team too. After a slow start, that team was unbelievably red hot for a decently long period of time in June and leading into the all star break, and then they just fizzled went back to being a .500 team. This streak has been nice, but with the pieces the team is made up of, it still feels like they're just one or two moderately bad breaks away from again being mediocre.

The thing is, the rest of the division already is mediocre or worse, so that might actually be enough this year.

DonnieDarko
06-04-2012, 11:54 AM
It reminds me of the 2010 team too. After a slow start, that team was unbelievably red hot for a decently long period of time in June and leading into the all star break, and then they just fizzled went back to being a .500 team. This streak has been nice, but with the pieces the team is made up of, it still feels like they're just one or two moderately bad breaks away from again being mediocre.

The thing is, the rest of the division already is mediocre or worse, so that might actually be enough this year.

I think that 2010 so far is a better comparison than 2005, yeah. We'll truly know after the All-Star Break, I guess. I mean, this team HAS to have some bad baseball left in it: I highly doubt that they'll stay a .600+ winning team all season. They HAVE to hit a patch of bad games where they lose more than half of them. I just hope that it doesn't happen down the stretch is all...

Golden Sox
06-04-2012, 12:35 PM
We will probably never see another White Sox team like the 2005 team. The starting pitching and 3rd base was much stronger than this 2012 team. The one place I think we're stronger is behind the plate. AJ is having another good year and Flowers is definitely a better backup catcher than what we had in 2005. The day is going to come when Flowers is our starting catcher and I have no doubt in my mind he will end up on the All Star team.

sullythered
06-04-2012, 01:27 PM
It reminds me of the 2010 team too. After a slow start, that team was unbelievably red hot for a decently long period of time in June and leading into the all star break, and then they just fizzled went back to being a .500 team. This streak has been nice, but with the pieces the team is made up of, it still feels like they're just one or two moderately bad breaks away from again being mediocre.

The thing is, the rest of the division already is mediocre or worse, so that might actually be enough this year.

54 games in, the Sox are 31-23. 54 games into the 2010 season, the Sox were 23-31. The "slow start" you refer to was way worse for the 2010 team. This Sox team looks a good deal better, so far.

DonnieDarko
06-04-2012, 01:30 PM
54 games in, the Sox are 31-23. 54 games into the 2010 season, the Sox were 23-31. The "slow start" you refer to was way worse for the 2010 team. This Sox team looks a good deal better, so far.

Wow, a totally inverse record? That's freakishly random. XD

sullythered
06-04-2012, 01:31 PM
If you look at the season breakdown so far, this team looks a lot more like a good team that had one bad stretch than a bad team with a few good stretches.

Hitmen77
06-04-2012, 02:08 PM
54 games in, the Sox are 31-23. 54 games into the 2010 season, the Sox were 23-31. The "slow start" you refer to was way worse for the 2010 team. This Sox team looks a good deal better, so far.

They were also 8.5 games out after 54 games in 2010 (and would even drop to 9.5 out before going on their hot streak). The ups and downs of that season were just crazy. The Sox totally rampaged through the interleague schedule racking up an 11-game winning streak against NL teams. Then they racked up another 9-game streak vs. AL teams in early July. They were tied for 1st as late as Aug 11 and then plummeted to 12 games out by Sept. 21 before going 9-2 to end the season and make a meaningless climb back to 6 games out.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2010-schedule-scores.shtml

I think it's hard to compare 2010 to any other season.

Huisj
06-05-2012, 01:16 PM
They were also 8.5 games out after 54 games in 2010 (and would even drop to 9.5 out before going on their hot streak). The ups and downs of that season were just crazy. The Sox totally rampaged through the interleague schedule racking up an 11-game winning streak against NL teams. Then they racked up another 9-game streak vs. AL teams in early July. They were tied for 1st as late as Aug 11 and then plummeted to 12 games out by Sept. 21 before going 9-2 to end the season and make a meaningless climb back to 6 games out.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2010-schedule-scores.shtml

I think it's hard to compare 2010 to any other season.

They definitely dug a bigger hole before they got red hot that year. Let's hope that because they found the hot streak earlier this year that there will be time for another one later in the year too that helps more than the 9-2 finish did two years ago.