PDA

View Full Version : MLBTR: White Sox are buyers


doublem23
06-01-2012, 03:51 AM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/05/white-sox-plan-to-add-players-midseason.html

I didn't quite get that from the piece they link to, but hey, good news is good news.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/story/2012-05-30/cubs-white-sox-opposite-directions/55293118/1#.T8esXx153-c.twitter

PeteWard
06-01-2012, 03:59 AM
Just so happy this season is not a bust already -- which I predicted it would be by now. :redface:

Half full glass: I think the starting pitching will improve and most hitters will level off which means except for AJ and Paulie and maybe Dunn, everyone will start hitting for higher averages.

Half empty glass: After watching Dunn in Tampa, I got this ugly feeling that he could go back to last year's level of futility. :o: I hope not Also not 100% convinced we have a season-long closer yet.

Mostly enjoying a great year and hope it continues. I do like the Sox' playoff chances.

white sox bill
06-01-2012, 07:10 AM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/05/white-sox-plan-to-add-players-midseason.html

I didn't quite get that from the piece they link to, but hey, good news is good news.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/story/2012-05-30/cubs-white-sox-opposite-directions/55293118/1#.T8esXx153-c.twitter

I guess this means good bye to whatever our ahem "top" prospects are and hello to some 38 yr olds in the twilight of thier career

Harry Potter
06-01-2012, 09:52 AM
Half empty glass: After watching Dunn in Tampa, I got this ugly feeling that he could go back to last year's level of futility. :o: I hope not

I'm guessing you got this feeling after Tues/Weds games and not after his GW HR on Monday?

TomBradley72
06-01-2012, 09:57 AM
I'm guessing you got this feeling after Tues/Weds games and not after his GW HR on Monday?

Yeah- not sure if a 2 run HR that was the difference in the game and almost hit the back wall of the dome is exactly "futility".

hawkjt
06-01-2012, 10:01 AM
This basically says that the Sox right now are not looking to dump their valuable vets like Peavy. Does not indicate that the Sox are actually going to mortgage the future to trade for 38 year old washed up has-beens.

Is this actually news? Would anyone really expect Kenny to start floating rumors right now that the Sox are looking to dump players in July?
Now that would really help the gate this homestand.

Its early. Nothing major will happen trade-wise for another month. Lets see where the Sox sit in a month. If they are in first place for the entire month of June, I suspect attendance will spike and dumping talent will not be an option. If they tail off, then by July 31st, Kenny might look to move Jake and others....too early to get britches in a bunch.

TheOldRoman
06-01-2012, 10:10 AM
This basically says that the Sox right now are not looking to dump their valuable vets like Peavy. Does not indicate that the Sox are actually going to mortgage the future to trade for 38 year old washed up has-beens.But that's the meme! 38 year old vets LOLZ! Kenny gets his guy 15 years 2 late!!1! And he trades away superstars for them even though we have the worst. farm. system. ever.

cws05champ
06-01-2012, 10:34 AM
But that's the meme! 38 year old vets LOLZ! Kenny gets his guy 15 years 2 late!!1! And he trades away superstars for them even though we have the worst. farm. system. ever.

Torii Hunter come on down!!!

kittle42
06-01-2012, 11:25 AM
How can a team be a buyer if it has nothing to give in trade except for the things it needs to keep?

DonnieDarko
06-01-2012, 11:29 AM
How can a team be a buyer if it has nothing to give in trade except for the things it needs to keep?

This. I don't get it either.

102605
06-01-2012, 11:32 AM
Danks for Dempster?

JORDAN.

beasly213
06-01-2012, 11:50 AM
I really don't know what they would add.. maybe a starter? Or another bull pen guy? Possibly a utility infielder.

I don't see any "HUGE SPLASH" moves to be made for the Sox.

everafan
06-01-2012, 11:52 AM
Danks for Dempster?

JORDAN.

I wouldn't - I feel like Dempster will bomb in the AL.

kittle42
06-01-2012, 12:21 PM
About the only trades the Sox could make are trades where they take on an albatross contract and agree to pay almost the entirety of it. They simply have no prospects worth a damn to trade.

So the "Sox are buyers" thing will REALLY have to mean BUYers. It's all $$$. That's all they have to give in return.

gobears1987
06-01-2012, 12:41 PM
I wouldn't - I feel like Dempster will bomb in the AL.

That first post should've been deep pinked, but Jordan Danks will never smell an MLB roster so I'd pull the trigger in a heart beat.

Lip Man 1
06-01-2012, 12:42 PM
I suspect Kenny would be looking for starting pitching.

And while I think its unlikely, I'd have no problem with the Sox paying to pick up contracts and then not have to trade anything. Hang on to whatever resources you have.

Lip

ChiSoxFann
06-01-2012, 12:48 PM
I really don't know what they would add.. maybe a starter? Or another bull pen guy? Possibly a utility infielder.

I don't see any "HUGE SPLASH" moves to be made for the Sox.


My guess would be the Sox stand pat and ride the season out with what they have, mostly because they don't have anything of value to trade. (Unless they completely tank by July 31, which I doubt) And if they do make a move it will be a small, Geoff Blum type trade where Kenny just does something to try to help out the team.

PeteWard
06-02-2012, 12:06 AM
I'm guessing you got this feeling after Tues/Weds games and not after his GW HR on Monday?

Yes the last two games. Don't really have much to back it up other than the way he looked at the plate. And he bombs one against the Ms today so glad to be wrong.

Brian26
06-02-2012, 12:11 AM
I suspect Kenny would be looking for starting pitching.

And while I think its unlikely, I'd have no problem with the Sox paying to pick up contracts and then not have to trade anything. Hang on to whatever resources you have.

Lip

Money is as big of a resource as any "prospect" nowadays. If the Sox can take on payroll, they can make a deal.

shingo10
06-02-2012, 11:43 AM
About the only trades the Sox could make are trades where they take on an albatross contract and agree to pay almost the entirety of it. They simply have no prospects worth a damn to trade.

So the "Sox are buyers" thing will REALLY have to mean BUYers. It's all $$$. That's all they have to give in return.

You think they couldn't move Mitchell or Quintano for some middle of the pack starting pitching? Not saying they should especially when Jose looks like he can pitch up in the big leagues. But they could probably pull off a move for some pitching if they wanted.

All of this reminds me...how's Nester Molina doing? He moved up to our top prospect when we got him right? Hopefully he's coming along well. Everyone is really high on all his "stuff."

SCCWS
06-02-2012, 12:15 PM
There could be another decision to make. They may end up around the trade deadline with a major injury ( say an outfielder). They then would have to decide whether to acquire a replacement or go w the guys on the depth chart.

HomeFish
06-02-2012, 01:36 PM
I believe a major mistake that KW made in 2009-2011 was not being a seller at the deadline. The Sox in that era had an unfortunate habit of playing excellent baseball in June/July, and would collapse again shortly after the deadline.

Who knows what we might have gotten for guys like Buehrle, Jenks, and Quentin in those days. Perhaps KW *did* try to sell and just didn't get anything worthwhile offered in return.

But if this Sox team sells, what is left to sell?

A. Cavatica
06-02-2012, 06:09 PM
You think they couldn't move Mitchell or Quintano for some middle of the pack starting pitching? Not saying they should especially when Jose looks like he can pitch up in the big leagues. But they could probably pull off a move for some pitching if they wanted.

Mitchell wouldn't bring a mid-rotation starter. Quintana would bring...well, Quintana.

mahagga73
06-02-2012, 09:46 PM
Can they get anything for Gavin Floyd?

dickallen15
06-02-2012, 09:50 PM
Money is as big of a resource as any "prospect" nowadays. If the Sox can take on payroll, they can make a deal.
That's a good point, especially with the new rules regarding draft pick compensation. I read where only 2 or 3 players will probably get the qualifying offer to net their team compensatory picks.

TDog
06-02-2012, 10:16 PM
I believe a major mistake that KW made in 2009-2011 was not being a seller at the deadline. The Sox in that era had an unfortunate habit of playing excellent baseball in June/July, and would collapse again shortly after the deadline.

Who knows what we might have gotten for guys like Buehrle, Jenks, and Quentin in those days. Perhaps KW *did* try to sell and just didn't get anything worthwhile offered in return.

But if this Sox team sells, what is left to sell?

Being a seller at the deadline is generally a mistake. Even in 1997, it didn't really help the White Sox, and it pissed off fans.

palehozenychicty
06-03-2012, 04:23 AM
Being a seller at the deadline is generally a mistake. Even in 1997, it didn't really help the White Sox, and it pissed off fans.

Well, 1997 was long forgiven by me. That team wasn't going to win anything, even if they somehow caught Cleveland and won the division.

So, how does a team improve if it has no assets to trade nor depth in the system?

kittle42
06-03-2012, 11:09 AM
So, how does a team improve if it has no assets to trade nor depth in the system?

Please do answer this, TDog.

TDog
06-03-2012, 01:30 PM
Well, 1997 was long forgiven by me. That team wasn't going to win anything, even if they somehow caught Cleveland and won the division.

So, how does a team improve if it has no assets to trade nor depth in the system?

Veterans tend to have a lower value at the deadline than they do during the offseason, certainly lower than fans believe they have. Players traded at the deadline to contenders are thrust into the race without time to adjust. so in most cases, they disappoint the fans on their new teams.

You could do what Oakland does -- trade young, under-control players who have developed to their peak trade value at the major league level (Andrew Bailey, Gio Gonzalez, Trevor Cahill etc.) along with some prospects of your own that you've drafted or acquired in other trades (Andre Ethier, Carlos Gonzalez etc.) for more prospects you plan to trade for more prospects some day. That's not totally true. The A's traded Ethier for Milton Bradley after the winter meetings. But when you look at prospects the A's have, and it is an impressive lot by many accounts, you have to consider that they got them by trading away the healthiest half of their young, starting rotation and their young closer, not by trading veterans a the deadline. These weren't veterans. They weren't threatening free agency, and they were under control of the A's for at least a few years.

The teams that score with trade-deadline deals are the ones who either get lucky or find a future star who has fallen out of favor or under the radar by the team developing him. It's mostly a matter of dumping fan favorites for future promises that won't be fulfilled.

The 1997 deadline deal that the White Sox made had very little to do with building the team that had the American League's best record in 2000. The top prospects didn't develop into stars. Keith Foulke and Bob Howry were in the bullpen, but both, certainly Foulke, could have been acquired from the Giants much more cheaply. The White Sox went from a depleted loser to a winner in a couple of years. Trading Cameron for Konerko and Navarro for Valentin in separate winters was a big part of that. Developing good young starting pitching (although arm problems became contagious late in the season) was another. The haul from Giants prospects didn't add produce any major league starting pitching.

It was the deadline deal that finally depleted them and the deadline deal played a very small role in building them back up again.

palehozenychicty
06-03-2012, 05:03 PM
Veterans tend to have a lower value at the deadline than they do during the offseason, certainly lower than fans believe they have. Players traded at the deadline to contenders are thrust into the race without time to adjust. so in most cases, they disappoint the fans on their new teams.

You could do what Oakland does -- trade young, under-control players who have developed to their peak trade value at the major league level (Andrew Bailey, Gio Gonzalez, Trevor Cahill etc.) along with some prospects of your own that you've drafted or acquired in other trades (Andre Ethier, Carlos Gonzalez etc.) for more prospects you plan to trade for more prospects some day. That's not totally true. The A's traded Ethier for Milton Bradley after the winter meetings. But when you look at prospects the A's have, and it is an impressive lot by many accounts, you have to consider that they got them by trading away the healthiest half of their young, starting rotation and their young closer, not by trading veterans a the deadline. These weren't veterans. They weren't threatening free agency, and they were under control of the A's for at least a few years.

The teams that score with trade-deadline deals are the ones who either get lucky or find a future star who has fallen out of favor or under the radar by the team developing him. It's mostly a matter of dumping fan favorites for future promises that won't be fulfilled.

The 1997 deadline deal that the White Sox made had very little to do with building the team that had the American League's best record in 2000. The top prospects didn't develop into stars. Keith Foulke and Bob Howry were in the bullpen, but both, certainly Foulke, could have been acquired from the Giants much more cheaply. The White Sox went from a depleted loser to a winner in a couple of years. Trading Cameron for Konerko and Navarro for Valentin in separate winters was a big part of that. Developing good young starting pitching (although arm problems became contagious late in the season) was another. The haul from Giants prospects didn't add produce any major league starting pitching.

It was the deadline deal that finally depleted them and the deadline deal played a very small role in building them back up again.

Thanks. All of that is spot on. So, in short, if the Sox are still in contention by the deadline, which looks very possible, then the waiver wire in August is the best option for finding talent, no?

Tragg
06-03-2012, 05:07 PM
Danks for Dempster?

JORDAN.

Hell no.
He's a mediocre national league pitcher.
That's all we're going to get as a starter anywhere - some mediocre pitcher we think can do better than Quintana. Garza? The Cubs act like he's an ace #1 with their price.

The only thing we really have to trade are Walker and Mitchell. There is no way we can trade either one of those guys if we care anything at all beyond 2012 or 2013.
Well, to be fair, we may have some guys in A ball or new to AA making some fast progress that I'm unaware of (like Reed did).

Lip Man 1
06-03-2012, 05:14 PM
Tragg:

How about Millwood?

Lip

Tragg
06-03-2012, 05:17 PM
Tragg:

How about Millwood?

Lip
double hell no. He's another inning-eating snowball pitcher.

I don't think starting pitching is the problem here and it's not realistic to improve it (i.e. how are we going to get a 1 or 2?). Quninta's done at least as well as you'll get out of Millwood or Dempster.
People complain about Floyd - well at least Floyd has some "Stuff", is capable of pitching a gem. At the end, his numbers will be no worse than those guys.
That said, if we simply can't find 5 acceptable starters, then you can get a Milwood - but it should be for salary only. PItchers like him are a dime a dozen.

What we need is a lefty bat. I don't think it's that hard to get an upgrade on Fukudome, but we'll see. And 3B is a work in process.

TDog
06-03-2012, 06:10 PM
Thanks. All of that is spot on. So, in short, if the Sox are still in contention by the deadline, which looks very possible, then the waiver wire in August is the best option for finding talent, no?

I think so. Where the Giants, for example, improved themselves late in 2010, for example, was picking up relievers and Cody Ross off the waiver sire in August. They seemed like small transactions at the time, but they were why they won their division and eventually the World Series.