PDA

View Full Version : Joe Maddon Whines


shingo10
05-30-2012, 09:02 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-rays-miffed-at-soxs-antics-20120530,0,5580840.story


What a coward. Good move Joe, by hitting A.J. you lost the game for your team. Now please shut the hell up.

Frater Perdurabo
05-30-2012, 09:05 PM
Maddon is a great manager, but Robin beat him this series.

I like throwing behind hitters - it sends the necessary message without giving the opponent a base runner. That was the difference in today's game.

TomBradley72
05-30-2012, 09:11 PM
Interesting that the article mentions De Aza getting hit with the pick off throw at 2nd- I don't think I've ever seen that done deliberately- but it sure looked like it on the replays.

Hartman
05-30-2012, 09:12 PM
Just look at the pattern here...first Boston, now us? Maybe man up and play some baseball instead of taking out your frustrations on other teams. Maddon single handledly gave us the game today so for that I say THANK YOU.

Good teams punish other teams by beating the snot out of them, which the Sox did for 3 straight games.

sox1970
05-30-2012, 09:16 PM
I don't blame the Rays throwing at AJ after the late slide the night before.

But Wegner, who should have known what that was about, should have called the warning right there. Then if Quintana or a Rays pitcher hits another, they're gone.

Quintana would have been better off actually hitting Zobrist. He may have got a warning out of it. Throwing behind him made it too obvious.

thomas35forever
05-30-2012, 09:17 PM
Maddon, don't make me hate you. A good way to do that is not say **** like that.

WhiteSox5187
05-30-2012, 09:28 PM
I honestly don't mind the Rays plunking AJ. If Zobrist was that upset about AJ's slide on Tuesday night (which I still haven't seen) then a good pitcher and manager would let Zobrist know that they have his back by hitting AJ. My objection is that they should have done it last night.

Throwing at AJ today opened up the door for the White Sox to retaliate which they probably should have done and I think they handled it well by not actually hitting Zobrist. What a good umpire would have done is issued a warning as soon as AJ was hit and then the problem would have been solved.

All this talk in the media is total BS on both sides (even though the Rays are the only ones who are talking). Of course Maddon is going to praise the ump for tossing Quintana after his guy got plunked, I suspect most managers would do that.

Tragg
05-30-2012, 10:03 PM
I don't blame the Rays throwing at AJ after the late slide the night before.

But Wegner, who should have known what that was about, should have called the warning right there. Then if Quintana or a Rays pitcher hits another, they're gone.

Quintana would have been better off actually hitting Zobrist. He may have got a warning out of it. Throwing behind him made it too obvious.

But throwing behind doesn't hit him, doesn't put a man on base, but sends the message. That's exactly what you should do.

FielderJones
05-30-2012, 10:06 PM
Of course Maddon is going to praise the ump for tossing Quintana after his guy got plunked, I suspect most managers would do that.

Except that his guy didn't get plunked. Maddon got warned by Robin and Quintana.

If Sox pitchers are going to get tossed for not hitting batters, then get your money's worth and drill someone.

Shoeless
05-30-2012, 10:10 PM
But throwing behind doesn't hit him, doesn't put a man on base, but sends the message. That's exactly what you should do.

It blows you can throw behind a guy after never being warned, not hurt him, but still get your starter thrown out. You should have to hit the guy to get thrown out, but maybe that's just me.

sox1970
05-30-2012, 10:13 PM
Unless it's at the head, there should always be a warning before an ejection.

But in Quintana's case, hit the guy with 2 outs. That throwing behind a guy stuff is dumb.

amsteel
05-30-2012, 10:20 PM
Now that he has a couple playoff losses under his belt it looks like he thinks he can run his mouth in the media.

If the Rays had any fans, they'd probably complain about it.

Have fun coaching future Yankees and Red Sox in front of playoff crowds of 25000.

WhiteSox5187
05-30-2012, 10:45 PM
Except that his guy didn't get plunked. Maddon got warned by Robin and Quintana.

If Sox pitchers are going to get tossed for not hitting batters, then get your money's worth and drill someone.

You're right, I forgot Zobrist didn't get hit. I stand by my point that Maddon was just defending his guy in the press. I also don't mind the Sox not hitting Zobrist there.

Soxman219
05-31-2012, 12:35 AM
Maddon is starting to run his mouth a little too much. Thanks for the win today though.:wink:

hawkjt
05-31-2012, 02:16 AM
I find it interesting that yesterday after AJ's alleged transgression on the basepaths, no one in the media even mentioned it.

Then today on Baseball Tonite,and MLB Network everyone is going back to that slide to justify the Rays throwing at AJ,and then universally condemning Quitana for throwing behind Zobrist.

Yesterday, the AJ slide looked like a very awkward attempt to break up a double play and more injurious to himself than Zobrist...then today it becomes the rationale for the Rays to headhunt with no retaliation.

Baseball 2Nite had their resident retired ump on,who said he was at all three games and the way the ''situation was brewing after AJ's slide'', Wegner had to eject Quintana..and said that Wegner did his job.

Wild Thing on QuickPitch said that hitting AJ evened it out and should have been the end of it.

If the umps really felt that the AJ slide was a true offense they should have warned the teams after Beckham got hit, or after AJ got hit, or before the game....it was just BS! After the fact rationalizations,to justify a complete idiotic move by an ump.

Wild Thing did say that maddon denying that they threw at AJ was total BS,also.

LITTLE NELL
05-31-2012, 05:24 AM
Lets see now, Gordo gets hit, AJ gets hit, DeAza hit in the knee on a questionable throw on a pickoff attempt. No one on the Rays hit. Who gets thrown out in this mess. Quintana and Robin.....***.
By the way Nellie Fox would have been a rich rich man if he got a few bucks everytime he was taken out by guys trying to break up DPs. Maddon, Zobrist and all the minor league fans in TB that I listened to on the drive home from the game need to shut up.

TomBradley72
05-31-2012, 08:37 AM
Now that he has a couple playoff losses under his belt it looks like he thinks he can run his mouth in the media.

If the Rays had any fans, they'd probably complain about it.

Have fun coaching future Yankees and Red Sox in front of playoff crowds of 25000.

Really? A rip on attendance?:scratch:

Madvora
05-31-2012, 08:47 AM
Why does everybody think Quintana purposely threw behind Zobrist? I think he just missed him. It wasn't an errant pitch. He was trying to hit him, and he missed.

amsteel
05-31-2012, 09:13 AM
Really? A rip on attendance?:scratch:

When the Sox fail to sell out a playoff game, I'll rescind my comment.

Bobby Thigpen
05-31-2012, 09:20 AM
When the Sox fail to sell out a playoff game, I'll rescind my comment.
When they get there as frequently as the Rays have recently, maybe your comment will make sense.

doublem23
05-31-2012, 09:34 AM
When they get there as frequently as the Rays have recently, maybe your comment will make sense.

Doesn't it make more sense?

If the Sox were coming off back-to-back playoff appearances, I think it's safe to say we'd be probably, at worst, somewhere in the middle of the pack in MLB attendance.

Irishsox1
05-31-2012, 10:19 AM
The ump blew it if he thought something was left over from AJ's horrible slide from the day before. The second batter of the game, Beckham was hit. If something was up, issue a warning then. But he doesn't. Third inning with Rios on second, A.J. get's hit. Right then, issue a warning but the ump doesn't. The Sox finally retaliate and the ump over reacts. As for the pitcher pegging DeAza, maybe that was the plan but it's a stretch.

Bobby Thigpen
05-31-2012, 10:33 AM
Doesn't it make more sense?

If the Sox were coming off back-to-back playoff appearances, I think it's safe to say we'd be probably, at worst, somewhere in the middle of the pack in MLB attendance.
I don't really care, but Sox fans ridiculing anyone for attendance issues is ironically hilarious.

amsteel
05-31-2012, 10:39 AM
I don't really care, but Sox fans ridiculing anyone for attendance issues is ironically hilarious.

I think you missed the word playoff in the original post

amsteel
05-31-2012, 10:41 AM
If Cole Hamels can get suspended for telling the truth, can Maddon get suspended for blatantly lying?

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/31/joe-maddon-people-throw-at-us-intentionally-we-never-do-it/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

doublem23
05-31-2012, 10:42 AM
I don't really care, but Sox fans ridiculing anyone for attendance issues is ironically hilarious.

Eh, the Sox have "issues," the Rays have ISSUES

Jerko
05-31-2012, 10:56 AM
Who is missing from the Rays besides Longoria? They don't seem to be a very good team. I know he's a great player but I wasn't really worried about them coming back in any game once the Sox took the lead.

doublem23
05-31-2012, 11:18 AM
Who is missing from the Rays besides Longoria? They don't seem to be a very good team. I know he's a great player but I wasn't really worried about them coming back in any game once the Sox took the lead.

Desmond Jennings is out, too, who is supposed to be one of their starting OF and up-and-coming stars.

They're also missing Sam Fuld and Brandon Guyer, I don't know if they're penciled in as star players, but they were going to be on the MLB roster. In the bullpen, Kyle Farnsworth is out, one of their potential closers, and Jeff Neimann is out, who has been a regular starter for them since 2009.

asindc
05-31-2012, 11:42 AM
Desmond Jennings is out, too, who is supposed to be one of their starting OF and up-and-coming stars.

They're also missing Sam Fuld and Brandon Guyer, I don't know if they're penciled in as star players, but they were going to be on the MLB roster. In the bullpen, Kyle Farnsworth is out, one of their potential closers, and Jeff Neimann is out, who has been a regular starter for them since 2009.

That's actually a good thing for them, though they seem not to realize it.

palehozenychicty
05-31-2012, 11:44 AM
Who is missing from the Rays besides Longoria? They don't seem to be a very good team. I know he's a great player but I wasn't really worried about them coming back in any game once the Sox took the lead.

They're a well-managed team that has a lot of young talent. Some of it is on the disabled list, but come on now. They've been in the playoffs three of the past four years. These ain't the DRays of Greg Vaughn.

CHISOXFAN13
05-31-2012, 11:49 AM
That's actually a good thing for them, though they seem not to realize it.

Rodney has been stellar in his absence, but let's not get crazy. Farnsworth had the best year of his career last year.

He was very good in 2010, too.

pythons007
05-31-2012, 11:53 AM
Back to back series Maddon is saying they don't throw at players. Maddon, I think you're a good manager but shut the **** up!

JB98
05-31-2012, 11:56 AM
Here's the thing all the national commentators don't understand: I don't care what the Rays' motivation was for hitting Pierzynski.

A.J. is one of our 25, and I'm taking his side no matter what. Other teams don't get to take a shot at him. Ever. For any reason. End of story.

I know some people will think I'm a Neanderthal meathead and a bad fan for saying that. Oh well.

I suspect all these former pitchers who are criticizing Quintana now might have done the same thing Jose did during their playing days. You protect your team and accept the consequences.

DrCrawdad
05-31-2012, 12:01 PM
Wednesday’s game:
HBP – G Beckham (by A Cobb); A Pierzynski (by A Cobb).
Monday’s game: HBP – A De Aza (by M Moore).

And in yesterday’s game in a pick-off play Cobb appeared to not even try to throw it to the baseman covering 2nd but hit De Aza in the knee causing De Aza to leave the game.

HERE ARE THE TOTALS:
3 Sox players HBP
1 Sox player injured by a throw by Ray’s pitcher
1 Sox player tossed out of the game
1 Sox manager tossed out of the game

0 Rays players HBP
1 Rays player hit by a hard slide/spike
0 Rays player tossed out of the game
0 Rays manager tossed out of the game

Ava83
05-31-2012, 01:22 PM
Here's the thing all the national commentators don't understand: I don't care what the Rays' motivation was for hitting Pierzynski.

A.J. is one of our 25, and I'm taking his side no matter what. Other teams don't get to take a shot at him. Ever. For any reason. End of story.

I know some people will think I'm a Neanderthal meathead and a bad fan for saying that. Oh well.

I suspect all these former pitchers who are criticizing Quintana now might have done the same thing Jose did during their playing days. You protect your team and accept the consequences. Seconded.

Well except for the neanderthal, meathead, bad fan part....

Bobby Thigpen
05-31-2012, 02:14 PM
I think you missed the word playoff in the original post
No, I read it.

So, we've gotten to the point as a fanbase that we'll ridicule another organization, who has made the playoffs as many times in the last four years as the Sox have in the past 12 years, because of attendance problems at those games?

Are you just dying to use Cub fans arguments against someone else?

RKMeibalane
05-31-2012, 02:24 PM
Here's the thing all the national commentators don't understand: I don't care what the Rays' motivation was for hitting Pierzynski.

A.J. is one of our 25, and I'm taking his side no matter what. Other teams don't get to take a shot at him. Ever. For any reason. End of story.

I suspect all these former pitchers who are criticizing Quintana now might have done the same thing Jose did during their playing days. You protect your team and accept the consequences.

Completely agree with this, and can't believe that other players/media are taking shots at the Sox for protecting one of their own, while having no problem with the Rays doing the same. As you pointed out, AJ is a member of the White Sox family: that should be all the explanation anyone needs as to why Sox pitchers would protect him, and why Ventura would argue on their behalf after Quintana was tossed.

The media don't get it. They seem to be just fine with one set of rules for other teams, and a different set of rules for the Sox. Ozzie Guillen is gone. The days of the Sox rolling over for other teams are gone, too. Robin seems heavily invested in standing up for his players, and in sending a message to the rest of the league that the Sox will retaliate against anyone who takes a shot at his players. I fully support his using whatever means necessary to drive this message home.

amsteel
05-31-2012, 02:44 PM
So, we've gotten to the point as a fanbase that we'll ridicule another organization, who has made the playoffs as many times in the last four years as the Sox have in the past 12 years, because of attendance problems at those games?

Depending how you look at it, the Sox and Rays have made the playoffs the same amount of times in the last 15 years.

The fact they couldn't scrape together 30000 people to show up for a playoff game out of a metro area of 4.8 million, seems like fair game to **** on them as an organization.

Over By There
05-31-2012, 02:45 PM
Here's the thing all the national commentators don't understand: I don't care what the Rays' motivation was for hitting Pierzynski.

A.J. is one of our 25, and I'm taking his side no matter what. Other teams don't get to take a shot at him. Ever. For any reason. End of story.

I know some people will think I'm a Neanderthal meathead and a bad fan for saying that. Oh well.

I suspect all these former pitchers who are criticizing Quintana now might have done the same thing Jose did during their playing days. You protect your team and accept the consequences.

:thumbsup:

Also, regarding the De Aza pickoff play... If someone explained it to me, and I hadn't seen it myself, I would probably think it was a crazy conspiracy theory. However, when you actually see the replay (particularly the one from the outfield camera), it sure as hell looks like the pitcher was throwing at De Aza. He misses the bag by a long margin, not to mention on the other side of the bag from where the 2B was.

amsteel
05-31-2012, 02:49 PM
Also, regarding the De Aza pickoff play... If someone explained it to me, and I hadn't seen it myself, I would probably think it was a crazy conspiracy theory. However, when you actually see the replay (particularly the one from the outfield camera), it sure as hell looks like the pitcher was throwing at De Aza. He misses the bag by a long margin, not to mention on the other side of the bag from where the 2B was.

It looks plausible, but the risk/reward too high. If that ball gets away, De Aza could conceivably score. Any pitcher that is willing to put on a guy on third or allow to score solely to 'settle the score' is nuts.

RKMeibalane
05-31-2012, 03:02 PM
It looks plausible, but the risk/reward too high. If that ball gets away, De Aza could conceivably score. Any pitcher that is willing to put on a guy on third or allow to score solely to 'settle the score' is nuts.

This sort of thing has happened before. Rob Dibble intentionally threw a ball at Doug Dascenzo of the Cubs in 1991, striking the latter in the back. Dibble was immediately ejected by Joe West. This was the same game in which West ejected Andre Dawson for arguing balls and strikes, prompting Dawson to empty the Cubs bat rack.

TomBradley72
05-31-2012, 03:04 PM
It looks plausible, but the risk/reward too high. If that ball gets away, De Aza could conceivably score. Any pitcher that is willing to put on a guy on third or allow to score solely to 'settle the score' is nuts.

I agree- but when you watch the replay closely its hard not to think he's throwing at De Aza. Giving up one base to hit a guy is similar to giving a guy 1st base via HBP.

I've never really heard of a team doing that- but the replay really leaves that impression.

aryzner
05-31-2012, 03:08 PM
For those debating the De Aza incident, here is a link to the video:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?c_id=cws&content_id=21894483

Edit: And it shows a view from high behind home plate

amsteel
05-31-2012, 03:16 PM
This sort of thing has happened before. Rob Dibble intentionally threw a ball at Doug Dascenzo of the Cubs in 1991, striking the latter in the back. Dibble was immediately ejected by Joe West. This was the same game in which West ejected Andre Dawson for arguing balls and strikes, prompting Dawson to empty the Cubs bat rack.

Interesting, I've never seen/heard of this. Edit: Dibble is pretty well known as a spazz, so if someode did it, I'm not surprised it was him.

I agree- but when you watch the replay closely its hard not to think he's throwing at De Aza. Giving up one base to hit a guy is similar to giving a guy 1st base via HBP.

I've never really heard of a team doing that- but the replay really leaves that impression.

There's a big difference between putting a guy on 3rd as opposed to putting a guy on 1st, though, especially with 0 out. Additionally, you're throwing at a moving target, that's probably low to the ground, meaning if you miss the target that ball is pretty much guaranteed to go into the outfield.

We'll never be able to determine what the intention was, but if Howell did it on purpose he's a ****ty ballplayer for a multitude of reasons.

Domeshot17
05-31-2012, 03:24 PM
I highly highly highly doubt there was any intention their by Howell. If you watch closely, the ball just takes off, almost like a cutter.

It is a funny conspiracy theory, but no one can seriously believe there was intent here.

beasly213
05-31-2012, 03:52 PM
I highly highly highly doubt there was any intention their by Howell. If you watch closely, the ball just takes off, almost like a cutter.

It is a funny conspiracy theory, but no one can seriously believe there was intent here.


:hawk:

No one?

LITTLE NELL
05-31-2012, 04:04 PM
I highly highly highly doubt there was any intention their by Howell. If you watch closely, the ball just takes off, almost like a cutter.

It is a funny conspiracy theory, but no one can seriously believe there was intent here.

No intent, Howell is a lousy pitcher and is not good enough to try to hit someone in the knee on purpose on a pickoff move.

Frontman
05-31-2012, 05:11 PM
Maddon is a great manager, but Robin beat him this series.

I like throwing behind hitters - it sends the necessary message without giving the opponent a base runner. That was the difference in today's game.

And far less of a chance for someone to get hurt. I think the whole thing is rather stupid, but I'd rather see someone miss on purpose, instead of aiming to hit, hitting the guy the wrong way or wrong place and sending someone to the DL.

BigKlu59
05-31-2012, 05:24 PM
Couple or more of few things...

Madden just dropped out of Sagedom with that infantile remark. Been in the game long enough to understand its picadillos to grandstand in this fashion.

Going back to Nell.. If a Sox pitcher plunked and opponent each time Little Louie applied mecurachrome to a slice, I dont think there would be the amount of opposition in the Hall Of Fame.. I wonder how the Gas House Gang could play in this day and age.

Hats off to Robin. The league baited and have presented us as the new boogy man. Send em out and keep winning. In the end whining doest win championships. WINNING does..

BK59

samurai_sox
05-31-2012, 05:26 PM
Hey Joe Maddon stop whining and move on.

As far as this series went, well....

M5QGkOGZubQ

Thome25
05-31-2012, 07:54 PM
To Maddon and Zobrist:

You *******s can have the perceived moral victory all you want. We'll take the actual W in the standings over that bull**** any day of the week.

cws05champ
05-31-2012, 08:23 PM
I highly highly highly doubt there was any intention their by Howell. If you watch closely, the ball just takes off, almost like a cutter.

It is a funny conspiracy theory, but no one can seriously believe there was intent here.
I believe it was Ken Rosenthal on twitter that even mentioned it right after the pick off play happened. He didn't come out and say he was throwing at him, but he said was an "interesting" pick off play after everything else had gone down.

Lip Man 1
05-31-2012, 08:38 PM
Hawk was speculating the same thing on the WGN feed.

Lip

SaltyPretzel
05-31-2012, 09:35 PM
Hawk was speculating the same thing on the WGN feed.

Lip

I was thinking the same thing when it happened, as far-fetched as it seemed.

You have to consider though, with the center fielder charging on the play on the artificial turf and De Aza sliding head first, there's a good chance he doesn't advance. Also, it looks like Howell's throwing right at him as if he was playing dodge ball.

I'm not saying he did it on purpose, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he did.

amsteel
06-20-2012, 08:21 AM
This can get moved to the general baseball forum, but for anyone who likes piling on Joe Maddon:
http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=320619120

He's not upset that his pitcher cheated, he's upset the other team thought he was cheating and turned out to be correct.

JB98
06-20-2012, 03:52 PM
It does seem like several clubs have had problems with the Rays this year in one fashion or another.

Oblong
06-21-2012, 09:56 PM
I like how Davey Johnson referred to him as "that guru over there".

I for one am tired of the Maddon genius talk.