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View Full Version : Attendance Woes - A Broadcaster Issue?


sox230
05-29-2012, 09:48 AM
I know we are probably all sick of the whole attendance thing and have probably beat the horse to death and then some. But on my way into work this morning, I heard a caller on the Score bring up a factor that I might not have thought of before: poor broadcasters. The caller immediately brought up Harry Caray and how the Sox attendance increased from just below 500K to over 800K and then over a million (he does appear to be right http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/wsoxatte.shtml). We all know what Harry did for the Cubs spike in attendance.

Every team has its diehard fans, but I agree with the caller that a big way teams can convert the casual fan is through the excitement of their radio and TV broadcasts. Seeing Hawk and Wimpy in the booth yesterday immediately brought me back to my childhood and some of the great times Hawk and Wimpy had in the booth. Do you think someone will get the same pleasure if Hawk and DJ ever reunited? (pity the thought!).

Breaking down the broadcasters, I'm pretty sure Hawk has a strong contingent of supporters and those that dislike him. But one thing is for sure, people talk about him. He brings attention to the Sox. Most people also seem to like Stoney, as he does provide great analysis and his only negative might be his massive ego, which really doesn't get in the way much.

The radio team is where it hurts. Listening to the game on the radio yesterday, I literally had no idea what was happening in the top of the fourth inning while Farmer and DJ interviewed Fred McGriff. They did not announce even a single out! It was a straight interview. I had to base the Tampa crowd noise (or what noise was there) in the background to know if something positive or negative happened. It is literally painful to listen to. Farmer and DJ are the anti-Hawk, toning down any excitement that might be happening in the game. DJ can't speak English.

Do you guys think broadcasters have an impact on attendance? Some nay-sayers might say that if you have good broadcasters, fans would be more inclined to stay at home instead of go to the game. I disagree. Am I taking this too far?

P.S. Hawk noted that both Wimpy and DJ were in the booth with him for ten years. It boggles my mind how Darrin Jackson has stayed employed as a Sox broadcaster for 14 years. The Sox CLEARLY do not take any polls of what Sox fans think in this department.

eriqjaffe
05-29-2012, 09:58 AM
Maybe they're hoping that people will go the park so they can see the Sox without having to listen to the announcers.

doublem23
05-29-2012, 10:15 AM
Do you guys think broadcasters have an impact on attendance?


No

TomBradley72
05-29-2012, 10:19 AM
I think it has a minimal impact on attendance.

But I agree that the radio team is beyond horrible- I used to put the radio on in the background while I was doing other stuff- regardless of the game, team outlook, etc.- just to listen to baseball- but I'll only listen to Farmer/DJ as an absolute last resort-

Noneck
05-29-2012, 10:26 AM
Do you guys think broadcasters have an impact on attendance?


The days of announcers like Harry are long gone and will never return. I dont remember any Sox announcer that spurred attendance except for Harry.

jdm2662
05-29-2012, 10:38 AM
If anything, the announcing crew makes me go to the games. I don't have to listen to them if I'm there...

And yes, the radio broadcast is beyond horrible. While I'm not fan of Hawk, he's been more tolerable this year.

SaltyPretzel
05-29-2012, 10:49 AM
I hate listening to Farmer. I have no idea if a ball hit is going to be a routine fly ball or a home run. He's absolutely terrible.

Also, instead of saying his next home run will be number 13, just say he has 12 home runs. It annoys the hell out of me.

kba
05-29-2012, 10:54 AM
The days of announcers like Harry are long gone and will never return. I dont remember any Sox announcer that spurred attendance except for Harry.

Harry was one of the few baseball announcers who could make his broadcasts entertaining, even when the team was terrible. He didn't sugar-coat what was happening on the field (at least during his Sox days); in fact, he could be brutal in his criticism. But it was never long before he was back to spelling players' names backwards, laughing about something with Piersall, or reminding us "you can't beat fun at the old ballpark."

Most other announcers have no ability to make a boring game any less boring or a lousy season any more tolerable. And Hawk can get downright grating when things aren't going well, with his exasperation, rants, and brooding silence. I've always thought that while die-hard fans can relate to Hawk's frustration, it turns off casual fans and potential fans who tune in to the broadcast for entertainment -- not to listen to a grumpy announcer.

RowanDye
05-29-2012, 11:15 AM
I listen to the Farmer and DJ for most games (I live 230 miles from U.S. Cellular and yet MLB.TV is blacked out).

Anyways, they've grown on me. I listen on my phone though, so I always have Gameday right there if I need to check the count or whatever.

Gameday actually runs a few seconds ahead of the radio feed though, so during big moments I stop myself from looking at Gameday so that I can enjoy Farmios call. Seriously.

Madscout
05-29-2012, 11:25 AM
DJ has to go...tired of him singing in the booth, and being an idiot all the time (and not in an endearing way). Farmer wants to hit him sometimes, and I wouldn't blame him if he did.

I love the idea of having a position player and a pitcher in the booth (as we have them on the radio and TV), but the quality on the Radio has to be better. I'd like to see what happens if they get rid of DJ (they won't) and then get Farmer off of there if it still sucks.

eriqjaffe
05-29-2012, 11:30 AM
DJ has to go...tired of him singing in the booth, and being an idiot all the time (and not in an endearing way). Farmer wants to hit him sometimes, and I wouldn't blame him if he did.

I love the idea of having a position player and a pitcher in the booth (as we have them on the radio and TV), but the quality on the Radio has to be better. I'd like to see what happens if they get rid of DJ (they won't) and then get Farmer off of there if it still sucks.The problem with DJ is that he learned everything he knows about broadcasting from Harrelson. It's like a caricature without the "folksy" charm.

Farmer is fine as a color guy, but he just lacks the focus needed to be a real play-by-play man

Man, oh, man, do I miss John Rooney.

shingo10
05-29-2012, 11:36 AM
At this point, people should just be resigned to the fact that DJ is gonna be here. Hawk is gonna be here. Farmer is gonna be here. The most likely one to go would be Stone. I'm guessing Reinsdorf doesn't have the relationship with him that he does the other 3. I could be wrong though. But Stone has never felt like a true Sox fan while broadcasting and from what I've read his pompous acts at Soxfest are cringe worthy and a poor reflection on the organization.

Chez
05-29-2012, 11:39 AM
I don't think there is any relationship between the Sox broadcasters and attendance at the ballpark. In my opinion, Sox fans will come up with every reason/excuse in the book to not attend games. I think there are only two sure-fire ways to increase attendance: (1) win games -- lots of games, and (2) decrease the cost of attending games.

sox230
05-29-2012, 11:52 AM
Man, oh, man, do I miss John Rooney.

I think this is what it pretty much boils down to. A play-by-play man who actually studied in school to be a journalist and (gasp) had previous experience.

sox230
05-29-2012, 11:56 AM
At this point, people should just be resigned to the fact that DJ is gonna be here. Hawk is gonna be here. Farmer is gonna be here. The most likely one to go would be Stone. I'm guessing Reinsdorf doesn't have the relationship with him that he does the other 3.

That's what has always KILLED me about Reinsdorf. He doesn't judge people on whether they actually do a good job, or if the fans like him, but rather if he likes him. He has used this philosophy with broadcasters, executives, coaches, players, etc. And it has absolutely reflected poorly on him throughout the years. I can't wait until he sells the team. He's a businessman, not a baseball owner.

Irishsox1
05-29-2012, 11:58 AM
I'm thinking it has to do with the usual stuff. 82 home games, school still isn't out, the team was supposed to struggle and the high cost of bringing a family to a game. School ends this week for most kids so I think attendance will start rising.

jabrch
05-29-2012, 12:03 PM
The team is playing great ball. It's an exciting team to watch. And people at WSI piss and moans about BROADCASTERS as an excuse to not go to games?

This isn't rocket science - it happens every year. IF the tickets aren't presold as part of season tickets, this team won't sell a ton of tickets until kids are out of school. Once kids are out of school, this team will only sell tickets if they continue to win. Nobody should be surprised by this - it's the same discussion any year where our season ticket base is lower than it has been.

Radio Announcers? Serously? That's why you think people aren't going to games?

soxinem1
05-29-2012, 12:08 PM
I think this is what it pretty much boils down to. A play-by-play man who actually studied in school to be a journalist and (gasp) had previous experience.

Not really. Don Drysdale was a former player who was an excellent announcer.

I always thought Dave Wills should have come back to replace Rooney, but after hearing Tommy John announce, I could not believe they didn't get him either. Those were two very solid options.

TJ fit the bill: Solid player, solid announcer, former White Sox.

Wills did the pre- and post-game and filled in great when needed.

With either Wills or John doing PBP, Farmer as color man would be fine. But when they went cheap and put Chris Singleton in the booth, it was like two Farmers.

DJ is tolerable, as he was with Hawk. But allowing them to do any type of PBP is terrible. Give your 'former player insight' when needed and that's it.

If I was working on the house or in my garage I listened to Joe McConnell, Lorn Brown, and John Rooney for hours with ease, even when the team sucked. But listening to Farmer while doing this stuff is a chore, to put it mildly.

I think I'd rather listen to Big Frank say 'No Doubt About It' four or five times an inning.

veeter
05-29-2012, 12:13 PM
I hate listening to Farmer. I have no idea if a ball hit is going to be a routine fly ball or a home run. He's absolutely terrible.

Also, instead of saying his next home run will be number 13, just say he has 12 home runs. It annoys the hell out of me.Every ground ball is fielded "at the rim of the infield". Every fly ball is caught with "a stutter step". The Sox play against the "Tampbay Rays". The Sox sometimes play against the "Arizona Dimebacks". Add in he or BJ never say the score and it is the biggest suckfest ever. They, not only, don't paint a picture- they describe a game not even being played.

kittle42
05-29-2012, 12:39 PM
Boy, it really sounds like the radio broadcast team HAS GOT SOME WORK....TO...DOOOOOO!

TheOldRoman
05-29-2012, 12:39 PM
the team is playing great ball. It's an exciting team to watch. And people at wsi piss and moans about broadcasters as an excuse to not go to games?

This isn't rocket science - it happens every year. If the tickets aren't presold as part of season tickets, this team won't sell a ton of tickets until kids are out of school. Once kids are out of school, this team will only sell tickets if they continue to win. Nobody should be surprised by this - it's the same discussion any year where our season ticket base is lower than it has been.

Radio announcers? Serously? That's why you think people aren't going to games?Where the hell have you been?

Procol Harum
05-29-2012, 12:50 PM
I think announcers are a small-to-tiny element in the overall buzz surrounding a sports franchise. So, yes, while this may play into Sox attendance to a small degree I don't think it's any kind of a substantive factor compared to the economy, school still being in session, and the fact that the Sox were a pretty dreadful team in 2010.

That said, personally I think the radio announcers are absolutely awful.

asindc
05-29-2012, 12:51 PM
The team is playing great ball. It's an exciting team to watch. And people at WSI piss and moans about BROADCASTERS as an excuse to not go to games?

This isn't rocket science - it happens every year. IF the tickets aren't presold as part of season tickets, this team won't sell a ton of tickets until kids are out of school. Once kids are out of school, this team will only sell tickets if they continue to win. Nobody should be surprised by this - it's the same discussion any year where our season ticket base is lower than it has been.

Radio Announcers? Serously? That's why you think people aren't going to games?

Where the hell have you been?

Just what I was thinking.:smile:

thomas35forever
05-29-2012, 12:56 PM
Boy, it really sounds like the radio broadcast team HAS GOT SOME WORK....TO...DOOOOOO!
/thread

Hitmen77
05-29-2012, 12:56 PM
The team is playing great ball. It's an exciting team to watch. And people at WSI piss and moans about BROADCASTERS as an excuse to not go to games?

This isn't rocket science - it happens every year. IF the tickets aren't presold as part of season tickets, this team won't sell a ton of tickets until kids are out of school. Once kids are out of school, this team will only sell tickets if they continue to win. Nobody should be surprised by this - it's the same discussion any year where our season ticket base is lower than it has been.



Agreed. Especially the underlined part.

I'm thrilled at the Sox current hot streak and look forward to seeing how long they can keep it up. But, it's funny how the Sox get hot for 2 weeks after 3 lackluster seasons and a salary cutting offseason and now there's 3 active threads with people complaining about Sox attendance and lack of support from Sox fans (and that's not aimed at the OP of this thread)

Oh, by the way, welcome back!

EMel9281
05-29-2012, 01:12 PM
DJ has to go...tired of him singing in the booth, and being an idiot all the time (and not in an endearing way). Farmer wants to hit him sometimes, and I wouldn't blame him if he did.

Couldn't agree more. While some of Hawk's-isms drive me up a wall, none do so more than DJ's, "He's got some WORK...to do." His idiocy is also not endearing, and I find myself cringing at Farmer and DJ's banter sometimes. But, it is what we have, and I'd rather have that than nothing.

TheOldRoman
05-29-2012, 01:16 PM
As for the premise of this thread, I don't think announcers have an impact on team attendance. Back in the day, Harry Caray may have drawn in more fans. However, there are way more distractions today from previous times. I am usually unneccesarily multitasking while watching games, and I would venture to guess that a minority of people sit watching the TV with undivided attention the entire game. I imagine a good number of people listen to music while watching the broadcast, put the TV on while cooking dinner, surf on their laptops/Ipads while watching, or do any number of things. I don't think the average casual fan is paying enough attention to the nuances of the game to become a fan of that team just to hear a particular announcer.

GoGoCrede
05-29-2012, 01:41 PM
I can't stand Hawk, but he's sure not keeping me from the ballpark. He does his part, though. He always talks up the park and the great weather.

LITTLE NELL
05-29-2012, 02:25 PM
IMHO, if fans had to go to a game or listen to Farmer on the radio the Sox would be drawing way over 3,000,000 a year.

Lip Man 1
05-29-2012, 02:31 PM
Soxinem:

Rooney was pitched by members of the organization for the job but JR just never warmed up to him. As I was told by an individual the "ship has sailed" as far as him ever returning.

John didn't get the position because some of the front offcie involved in the process didn't want two players from the same generation of the game sharing the duties as well as the fact that they were both pitchers.

Lip

jabrch
05-29-2012, 03:15 PM
Just what I was thinking.:smile:

Where the hell have you been?


Raising twin 5 year olds. Working. Playing golf. Enjoying White Sox baseball. And Lurking here every now and then - but doing my best to avoid threads just like this.

Finally after not posting since June 9, 2010, this one pushed me over the line.

I can tell the Sox are playing great ball - because stupid threads pop up at WSI complaining about broadcasters and contemplating our navals about the next time KW is going to screw up by trading some future hall of famer like Royce Ring or Josh Fogg.

Where's the resident genius who last year was saying "I told you so" about Adam Dunn sucking? (Who was that?) You guys don't know the restraint I had to use to avoid posting then. How about people who were furious that Williams traded away Sergio Santos?

jeesh....One post, and I'm already annoying myself with this?

Guys - The Sox are a half game out of first place. Instead of worrying about who isn't coming to the games, who's on the radio, and who's eventually going to get traded or not get traded, I'm going back to playing with my son (took him to his first game on Saturday and had a BLAST with him) and daughter (who for some reason has inherited the Cubs fan gene from my wife's side of the family) enjoying watching my favorite team playing great ball, and hoping they continue to improve collectively as the season progresses, but enjoying the game for what it is - not letting myself get tortured about imaginary crap that isn't relevant. I'm a die hard Sox fan...just not interested in allowing something I love so much to be a drag on me.

At this rate - my next posts are due May 19, 2014. See you then! :-)

eriqjaffe
05-29-2012, 03:15 PM
Boy, it really sounds like the radio broadcast team HAS GOT SOME WORK....TO...DOOOOOO!I hate it when he does that.

asindc
05-29-2012, 03:34 PM
Raising twin 5 year olds. Working. Playing golf. Enjoying White Sox baseball. And Lurking here every now and then - but doing my best to avoid threads just like this.

Finally after not posting since June 9, 2010, this one pushed me over the line.

I can tell the Sox are playing great ball - because stupid threads pop up at WSI complaining about broadcasters and contemplating our navals about the next time KW is going to screw up by trading some future hall of famer like Royce Ring or Josh Fogg.

Where's the resident genius who last year was saying "I told you so" about Adam Dunn sucking? (Who was that?) You guys don't know the restraint I had to use to avoid posting then. How about people who were furious that Williams traded away Sergio Santos?

jeesh....One post, and I'm already annoying myself with this?

Guys - The Sox are a half game out of first place. Instead of worrying about who isn't coming to the games, who's on the radio, and who's eventually going to get traded or not get traded, I'm going back to playing with my son (took him to his first game on Saturday and had a BLAST with him) and daughter (who for some reason has inherited the Cubs fan gene from my wife's side of the family) enjoying watching my favorite team playing great ball, and hoping they continue to improve collectively as the season progresses, but enjoying the game for what it is - not letting myself get tortured about imaginary crap that isn't relevant. I'm a die hard Sox fan...just not interested in allowing something I love so much to be a drag on me.

At this rate - my next posts are due May 19, 2014. See you then! :-)

Understood. I've had to take breaks myself, but just so you know, most of the trolls that infested WSI two years ago are thankfully gone. Just mostly run-of-the-mill BS nowadays.

ChiSoxGirl
05-29-2012, 08:09 PM
Boy, it really sounds like the radio broadcast team HAS GOT SOME WORK....TO...DOOOOOO!

:cower: :thud:

I hate it when he does that.

I don't know if there's any Sox fan around who hates DJ and his "We've got some work... taaa...doooo!!!!" and "Jean Pierre" references (which, thankfully are gone) than me. :angry: Pierre is not now, nor has he ever been, French, so why does his name need that type of pronunciation?!

tony1972
05-29-2012, 08:36 PM
I love Farmer and DJ. I love Farmer's dry sense of humor and DJ's cheesiness and goofiness. I think they work well together. Farmer and Singleton made me cringe.

slavko
05-29-2012, 10:47 PM
That's what has always KILLED me about Reinsdorf. He doesn't judge people on whether they actually do a good job, or if the fans like him, but rather if he likes him. He has used this philosophy with broadcasters, executives, coaches, players, etc. And it has absolutely reflected poorly on him throughout the years. I can't wait until he sells the team. He's a businessman, not a baseball owner.


And yet...a businessman would look at the bottom line and judge people about what they did for the bottom line. Something is wrong with your logic. I agree with you about how he judges people, but I think he runs the team like a retired guy's hobby. He sure as hell doesn't run it like a business.

DJ's "You can kiss it goodbye." Frank's "No doubt about it." Both ancient Lou Boudreau expressions on the home run call. But I don't mind DJ and Farmer. They get along well and I manage to figure out how the game is going. And I think Rooney's problem was that he couldn't paint a word picture. I liked him. Most of you love him.

LoveYourSuit
05-29-2012, 11:15 PM
I love Farmer and DJ. I love Farmer's dry sense of humor and DJ's cheesiness and goofiness. I think they work well together. Farmer and Singleton made me cringe.

I like Farmer also.

Doesn't get too high or too low on the action unlike Hawk the Clown.

We are so lucky the Sox are playing good making Hawk digestible right now.

Nellie_Fox
05-30-2012, 12:24 AM
If Harry, in his prime, was here today, there'd be a ton of you bitching about him. Do you really remember what it was like? Many games, he'd be slurring his words from too many "ice-cold Falstaffs" by the fifth inning. Name dropping instead of talking about the game: "Joe Schlabotnik is here with a group from his great restaurant" getting himself comped meals and drinks all over town. Overused phrases? "Paaaaahhhhhped it up." "That wouldn't be a homerun in a phone booth!" "Oh, for the long one."

I'm not saying he was bad, I enjoyed him as much as anybody. I'm just saying that he could be criticized for all the things you guys say about the current announcers, and then add on being half drunk a lot of the time. Seriously, listen to the broadcasters for other teams, TV or radio. It's all a matter of personal taste, and just because YOU dislike an announcer doesn't make management idiots for not seeing it the same way you do.

TomBradley72
05-30-2012, 06:52 AM
If Harry, in his prime, was here today, there'd be a ton of you bitching about him. Do you really remember what it was like? Many games, he'd be slurring his words from too many "ice-cold Falstaffs" by the fifth inning. Name dropping instead of talking about the game: "Joe Schlabotnik is here with a group from his great restaurant" getting himself comped meals and drinks all over town. Overused phrases? "Paaaaahhhhhped it up." "That wouldn't be a homerun in a phone booth!" "Oh, for the long one."

I'm not saying he was bad, I enjoyed him as much as anybody. I'm just saying that he could be criticized for all the things you guys say about the current announcers, and then add on being half drunk a lot of the time. Seriously, listen to the broadcasters for other teams, TV or radio. It's all a matter of personal taste, and just because YOU dislike an announcer doesn't make management idiots for not seeing it the same way you do.

At least Charlie Brown was happy- :cool:

soxnut67
05-30-2012, 10:22 AM
I think this is what it pretty much boils down to. A play-by-play man who actually studied in school to be a journalist and (gasp) had previous experience.

I lked John Rooney, but for the most part--any one of those pbp who went to school for it all sound THE SAME. I have mlb network and when they show clips of games with the audio, they all sound like the same guy---awful.

MetroPD
05-30-2012, 10:32 AM
Its not the broadcasters, its not the team play, its a combination of the economy and the stigma of the Sox being on the southside. They won;t have jammed packed stands full of drunks asking when Sammy Sosa is coming up to bat, but they will have people who want to see their team play well.

SoxandtheCityTee
05-30-2012, 10:45 AM
Its not the broadcasters, its not the team play, its a combination of the economy and the stigma of the Sox being on the southside. They won;t have jammed packed stands full of drunks asking when Sammy Sosa is coming up to bat, but they will have people who want to see their team play well.


I don't agree about south side stigma, as I live near south and so do lots of people who see no stigma at all. But I was noticing the fans' post-game celebration when the Flubs broke their losing streak the other day -- the PA system played Go Cubs Go and people were singing along merrily. Would the Sox play Let's Go Go Go White Sox in the same situation? Would the fans sing along, non-ironically? I've never seen it. It's just a different fan base.

Madscout
05-30-2012, 02:10 PM
I don't know if there's any Sox fan around who hates DJ and his "We've got some work... taaa...doooo!!!!" and "Jean Pierre" references (which, thankfully are gone) than me. :angry: Pierre is not now, nor has he ever been, French, so why does his name need that type of pronunciation?!

That, and what's up with the pronunciation of "Johnson"...always "Jooooonson". Just little BS like that which pisses me off. I don't mind the analysis part, as both DJ and Farmer do a decent job (though Farmer is always looking for the long ball...as a pitcher no less). I guess it boils down to "family friendly" doesn't also have to be DBaggery.

SephClone89
05-30-2012, 03:01 PM
Its not the broadcasters, its not the team play, its a combination of the economy and the stigma of the Sox being on the southside. They won;t have jammed packed stands full of drunks asking when Sammy Sosa is coming up to bat, but they will have people who want to see their team play well.

I don't agree about south side stigma, as I live near south and so do lots of people who see no stigma at all.

Well, obviously that part doesn't exactly apply to you...

kittle42
05-30-2012, 03:14 PM
Well, obviously that part doesn't exactly apply to you...

Exactly. None of us agrees that the stereotype is correct, but we cannot deny it exists and keeps people from going to the park as casually as they do at Wrigley.

kittle42
05-30-2012, 03:15 PM
\But I was noticing the fans' post-game celebration when the Flubs broke their losing streak the other day -- the PA system played Go Cubs Go and people were singing along merrily. Would the Sox play Let's Go Go Go White Sox in the same situation? Would the fans sing along, non-ironically?

Probably as to whether it would be played, and probably not as to whether fans would care.

doublem23
05-30-2012, 03:21 PM
Exactly. None of us agrees that the stereotype is correct, but we cannot deny it exists and keeps people from going to the park as casually as they do at Wrigley.

Yeah, bingo, in another thread there's a guy complaining about the parking prices and how it's too inconvienent for a family to go to the game and look for street parking, yet somehow Cub fans with kids have no problem parking in much denser Lakeview and dragging along the tykes for several city blocks to the park.

Scary Bridgeport?

:dunno:

kittle42
05-30-2012, 03:27 PM
Yeah, bingo, in another thread there's a guy complaining about the parking prices and how it's too inconvienent for a family to go to the game and look for street parking, yet somehow Cub fans with kids have no problem parking in much denser Lakeview and dragging along the tykes for several city blocks to the park.

Scary Bridgeport?

:dunno:

And parking at Wrigley is $30-$40+ at nearby lots. And tickets there are just as, or more, expensive. And food and beer and soda is just as expensive.

Just as Sox fans aren't a bunch of destitute criminals, Cub fans aren't a bunch of rich yuppies. There are plenty of different types of people at both parks. It's just that one park has had a lot more people in it for years. I'll actually give some Cubs fans some credit this and last season - when you ask them why they don't go to games, some will say they're finally priced out, but many more will say they're fed up with the on-field product.

doublem23
05-30-2012, 03:31 PM
And parking at Wrigley is $30-$40+ at nearby lots. And tickets there are just as, or more, expensive. And food and beer and soda is just as expensive.

Just as Sox fans aren't a bunch of destitute criminals, Cub fans aren't a bunch of rich yuppies. There are plenty of different types of people at both parks. It's just that one park has had a lot more people in it for years. I'll actually give some Cubs fans some credit this and last season - when you ask them why they don't go to games, some will say they're finally priced out, but many more will say they're fed up with the on-field product.

And the Sox have no one to blame but themselves for some of that perception. I'm sure the Tribune could have come in in the 80s and bought up land around Wrigley and turned it into parking lots for Cubs games, but they wisely helped market the "urban experience" of Wrigleyville and helped turn around what was a dilapidated, shady neighborhood into one of the most desireable places to live, work, and play between New York and Las Vegas. The Sox, meanwhile, bulldozed the hell out of Bridgeport, blighted their neighborhood, and here we are, 20 years later and there's still almost no development around the park, and 1/2 of what there is, they had to pay for themselves.

DumpJerry
05-30-2012, 03:53 PM
Yeah, bingo, in another thread there's a guy complaining about the parking prices and how it's too inconvienent for a family to go to the game and look for street parking, yet somehow Cub fans with kids have no problem parking in much denser Lakeview and dragging along the tykes for several city blocks to the park.

Scary Bridgeport?

:dunno:
I've been mystified by this as well. From reading the numerous threads here, you'd think there was a secret parking garage for 50,000 cars under Wrigley which charges only $1.00-refunded if the Cubs win and the Sox got rid of personal (and free) valet parking for anyone whose car has a suburban vehicle sticker.

SoxandtheCityTee
05-30-2012, 06:52 PM
I'll try to explain what I mean better.

Obviously people who choose to live in my neighborhood don't think that living south of Madison sucks. I happen to have grown up south and moved into the South Loop 25 years ago, so I have no reason to believe the stereotype. And I know it's out there. But I say it's fading.

Tens of thousands of people have moved Near South much more recently. Yes, even into Bridgeport. In addition to recent college grads from all over the Midwest they come from the North Shore (you'd be amazed), the north and northwest sides, the western burbs, other cities, everywhere. I don't quite know all of them but I do volunteering, belong to boards and committees, do parish stuff etc. and no one I've ever met around here came in with this perception of Bridgeport or the ballpark. Did they just change their minds the moment they moved? I don't think so.

Of course, I get that they wouldn't have moved here in the first place if they bought the stereotype -- but that's just it: despite all those places they came from where we might suppose that the stereotype obtains, it didn't for them, and there are more than a few of them.

The most recent time I have heard anyone invoke this stereotype (other than the Cubune, of course) were some friends of friends when I was visiting downstate maybe eight years ago. They were outspokenly racist, not worth even discussing.

But to say it's the way it was 25, 20 or even 10 years ago is just not true, in my experience and humble opinion. It's getting better all the time, to coin a phrase.