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ZombieRob
05-26-2012, 12:38 AM
This may be the worst Cub team I have ever seen since 1978 and there has been some brutal ones over the years before that I'm sure. From the looks of it, there is now help in site and seemingly will get worse once Dempster and or Garza is traded. I'm also curious to see if the crowd will pack it in everyday like usual. On pace to set a record, I despise most things Cub, but I seriously almost feel bad for them.

doublem23
05-26-2012, 12:47 AM
I feel bad for real Cub fans like my mom or brother who have to sit through this bull****, but those Wrigley fans who don't even remember the '89 NLCS... **** them.

ZombieRob
05-26-2012, 12:52 AM
I feel bad for real Cub fans like my mom or brother who have to sit through this bull****, but those Wrigley fans who don't even remember the '89 NLCS... **** them.
That's where I agree. The true purist Cub fans don't bother me and I do have some pity on them. I really don't want that record hanging over Chicago period which to me is embarrassing.

Lip Man 1
05-26-2012, 01:14 AM
Worst Cub team ever?

I certainly hope so.

I won't shed any tears if they lose 20 in a row.

Lip

Saracen
05-26-2012, 02:06 AM
I'll be 43 years old this year. I feel for my true, knowledgeable, no-nonsense Cub fan buddies I grew up with - it's been a lifetime of good fandom and crappy baseball. They're good baseball fans, they deserve better.

That said this Cubs team is awful and I love it.

kittle42
05-26-2012, 06:36 AM
I'm just looking forward to the group of idiot fans who will call for Epstein's head after this season because they don't understand what rebuilding is.

DrCrawdad
05-26-2012, 07:30 AM
I'm just looking forward to the group of idiot fans who will call for Epstein's head after this season because they don't understand what rebuilding is.

The man is a genius! Theos has the Cubbies perfectly positioned for the 2013 top draft pick!!!!

eastchicagosoxfan
05-26-2012, 08:19 AM
The man is a genius! Theos has the Cubbies perfectly positioned for the 2013 top draft pick!!!!

Look at the track record of first rounders. Have at it Cubbies!

http://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/?query_type=franch_round&team_ID=CHC&draft_round=1&draft_type=junreg&

Worst Cubs team ever? It's a long season, and there's too much baseball left. If they're around 30-60 at the break, the debate can begin in earnest. That 1980 team was absolutely brutal.

Golden Sox
05-26-2012, 09:46 AM
Now that the White Sox have actually won a World Series in my lifetime my next dream is to have the White Sox get into the playoffs and have the Cubs end up in last place losing at least 100 games.This might actually happen this year.

StillMissOzzie
05-26-2012, 10:47 AM
This may be the worst Cub team I have ever seen since 1978 and there has been some brutal ones over the years before that I'm sure. From the looks of it, there is now help in site and seemingly will get worse once Dempster and or Garza is traded. I'm also curious to see if the crowd will pack it in everyday like usual. On pace to set a record, I despise most things Cub, but I seriously almost feel bad for them.

The announced attendance will still be huge, as a lot of those tickets have been sold, but I would not be surprised seeing more & more empty seats at the Friendly Confines.

SMO
:gulp:

doublem23
05-26-2012, 11:18 AM
I'm just looking forward to the group of idiot fans who will call for Epstein's head after this season because they don't understand what rebuilding is.

Actually I heard the first open dissent from the Chicago media regarding Theo last night. At the end of the 6 o'clock news on CBS, Walter Jacobson openly said "maybe he's not the genius we thought he was." Of course, their sports gal (Jill Carlson?) shot him down. But we're not even to June and patience is starting to run out.

DumpJerry
05-26-2012, 12:08 PM
Come on, everyone. Theo is a genius. This is the same approach he took with the Red S.........oh wait, never mind.

tstrike2000
05-26-2012, 12:32 PM
Cubs have had several teams over the last 30+ years that could give this one a run for it's money.

Red Barchetta
05-26-2012, 12:32 PM
I'll be 43 years old this year. I feel for my true, knowledgeable, no-nonsense Cub fan buddies I grew up with - it's been a lifetime of good fandom and crappy baseball. They're good baseball fans, they deserve better.

That said this Cubs team is awful and I love it.

I think I have also mellowed with age when it comes to the baby bears and the White Sox Chicago rivalry.

For me, it came to a feverish pitch during the height of the Tribune era carnival atmosphere with Sammy Sosa and his steroid activated, corked bat chase for the single season HR record, my genuine dislike for Mark "The Messiah" Prior and the over-hyped Dusty Baker. However I'm also old enough to remember when they closed off the upper deck in the late 70s due to lack of attendance.

I have a few friends and family who are true Cub fans and not just fans of the Wrigley Field "experience". I feel bad that that have to watch another train wreck of a season, however I also told them that if they continue to draw 3M plus "fans" every season, why would the ownership need to make any changes?

kittle42
05-26-2012, 01:06 PM
Actually I heard the first open dissent from the Chicago media regarding Theo last night. At the end of the 6 o'clock news on CBS, Walter Jacobson openly said "maybe he's not the genius we thought he was." Of course, their sports gal (Jill Carlson?) shot him down. But we're not even to June and patience is starting to run out.

It'll be interesting to see what he does at the deadline. A much different scenario than Boston, to be sure, and of course I hope he falls flat on his face, but as a baseball fan, I am curious as to the moves he'll make for 2013 and 2014.

doublem23
05-26-2012, 01:33 PM
It'll be interesting to see what he does at the deadline. A much different scenario than Boston, to be sure, and of course I hope he falls flat on his face, but as a baseball fan, I am curious as to the moves he'll make for 2013 and 2014.

Me, too, but moreso because I remain unconvinced that Epstein and Hoyer actually know what they are doing and more that they just happened to get lucky and land in the right place at the right time with Boston.

Zakath
05-26-2012, 01:55 PM
Despite their lackluster history, only two Cub teams have ever lost more than 100. The 1962 and 1966 Cub teams both lost 103 games, finishing with a .364 winning percentage.

This team is going to give those two a run for their money.

DumpJerry
05-26-2012, 02:33 PM
Me, too, but moreso because I remain unconvinced that Epstein and Hoyer actually know what they are doing and more that they just happened to get lucky and land in the right place at the right time with Boston.
Agreed. I think they spend too much time patting themselves on their backs for that computer program. Incidentally, the Cubs are the last team in MLB to buy a sabermetric-type of software for player development.

Brian26
05-26-2012, 03:00 PM
This may be the worst Cub team I have ever seen since 1978 and there has been some brutal ones over the years before that I'm sure. From the looks of it, there is now help in site and seemingly will get worse once Dempster and or Garza is traded. I'm also curious to see if the crowd will pack it in everyday like usual. On pace to set a record, I despise most things Cub, but I seriously almost feel bad for them.

The '81 team was pretty damn bad. They lost 12 or 13 in a row to start the season. I was eight years old at the time, a fan of the Bozo-to-Brickhouse afternoon turnover during the summer months when Kingman, Buckner, Reuschel and Barry Foote were doing their thing. After the 13th loss (may have set a record at the time, not sure), I gave up on the Cubs and adopted the Sox as my team, who had just signed Fisk and Luzinski (and I had always liked seeing the Chet Lemon diving-into-first highlights on the news). Got a new Sox cap for my birthday that year and never looked back.

TomBradley72
05-26-2012, 03:21 PM
Maybe this year can give us the 1994 season we never fully realized- the White Sox were in 1st place that year and Cubs completely sucked- but for their worst team ever I'd have to go with the 1962 Cubs- mediocrity + the ridiculous "College of Coaches" concept. Their managers that year were a blend of Charlie Metro + Lou Klein + El Tappe. They finished behind the expansion Houston Colt 45's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_of_Coaches

The 1966 team was bad- but at least had some young and promising talent- all of their 1969 starters except in CF and RF w/Holtzman and Hands in the rotation and Jenkins in the pen.

RadioheadRocks
05-26-2012, 06:45 PM
However I'm also old enough to remember when they closed off the upper deck in the late 70s due to lack of attendance.


Bingo... it was also closed quite a bit in the early 80s, and Harry Caray's first two seasons with the Cubs were nothing special either. I've said it time and time again, 1984 was the flashpoint of "Cubbie Mania" and they've been riding that wave ever since.

Frontman
05-26-2012, 07:11 PM
Despite their lackluster history, only two Cub teams have ever lost more than 100. The 1962 and 1966 Cub teams both lost 103 games, finishing with a .364 winning percentage.

This team is going to give those two a run for their money.

If it makes Dave Kaplan miserable, I'm all for it. I swear, I thought he was going to cry last night during the post-game show.

Lip Man 1
05-26-2012, 07:27 PM
The Cubs closed off the upper deck as 'recently' as September 1983 (have the story on tape about it...)

Lip

cub killer
05-26-2012, 07:49 PM
Has Sveum talked about the nickel-and-dime people who don't work, yet?

soxfan2504
05-26-2012, 09:45 PM
Has Sveum talked about the nickel-and-dime people who don't work, yet?

+1

:rolling:

Zakath
05-26-2012, 10:24 PM
Make it 11 in a row. Dolis plunks Hague in a tie game in the bottom of the ninth with the bases loaded. :lol::whiteflag:

WhiteSoxOnly
05-26-2012, 10:33 PM
Well, they just can't win 'em all ya know.

Frontman
05-26-2012, 10:46 PM
:o:


I saw that on the news. I thought they were bad, but my God, that's terrible baseball.

Zakath
05-26-2012, 11:14 PM
53-109 at this pace. Of course, given this team, things could easily take a turn for the worse.

GoSox2K3
05-26-2012, 11:59 PM
Make it 11 in a row. Dolis plunks Hague in a tie game in the bottom of the ninth with the bases loaded. :lol::whiteflag:

LOL.

I remember a Cubs team starting the season 0-14 sometime in the mid 1990s. If it wasn't 0-14 to start the season, I think it was at least a 14 game losing streak early in the season.

I'm sympathetic to the long-time true baseball fan Cubs fans. But, I have zero sympathies for the clowns who move to Chicago and instantly become Cubbie fans because they're the cool team to root for. :rolleyes:

slavko
05-27-2012, 12:04 AM
If it makes Dave Kaplan miserable, I'm all for it. I swear, I thought he was going to cry last night during the post-game show.

He did look verklemmt, didn't he. Near tears for sure. Nothing quite as enjoyable as that look on his Cubbie loving face. The day before he got under Gonzo's skin and got told off. I thought he had skills, but he's the wrong guy to host a general sports show.

doublem23
05-27-2012, 12:27 AM
I remember a Cubs team starting the season 0-14 sometime in the mid 1990s. If it wasn't 0-14 to start the season, I think it was at least a 14 game losing streak early in the season.

1997 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/1997-schedule-scores.shtml)

I'm pretty sure their 0-14 start is the worst in National League history.

cheezheadsoxfan
05-27-2012, 12:31 AM
I think I have also mellowed with age when it comes to the baby bears and the White Sox Chicago rivalry.

For me, it came to a feverish pitch during the height of the Tribune era carnival atmosphere with Sammy Sosa and his steroid activated, corked bat chase for the single season HR record, my genuine dislike for Mark "The Messiah" Prior and the over-hyped Dusty Baker. However I'm also old enough to remember when they closed off the upper deck in the late 70s due to lack of attendance.

I have a few friends and family who are true Cub fans and not just fans of the Wrigley Field "experience". I feel bad that that have to watch another train wreck of a season, however I also told them that if they continue to draw 3M plus "fans" every season, why would the ownership need to make any changes?
Thanks for mentioning that. I've met Cub fans who refuse to believe it. :rolleyes:

LongLiveFisk
05-27-2012, 12:34 AM
Thanks for mentioning that. I've met Cub fans who refuse to believe it. :rolleyes:

Must have been born after 1980.

cheezheadsoxfan
05-27-2012, 12:40 AM
Must have been born after 1980.
No, denial and blue kool-aid.
I remember seeing Koufax pitch, had to be '65, and if the upper deck wasn't closed it WAS empty. The Trib buying them was the worst thing to happen to true cub fans.

RKMeibalane
05-27-2012, 12:51 AM
1997 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/1997-schedule-scores.shtml)

I'm pretty sure their 0-14 start is the worst in National League history.

Ah, yes. The Kevin Orie era.

ZombieRob
05-27-2012, 01:05 AM
He did look verklemmt, didn't he. Near tears for sure. Nothing quite as enjoyable as that look on his Cubbie loving face. The day before he got under Gonzo's skin and got told off. I thought he had skills, but he's the wrong guy to host a general sports show.
I missed it what he say to Gonzo?

WhiteSox5187
05-27-2012, 03:33 AM
53-109 at this pace. Of course, given this team, things could easily take a turn for the worse.

You would think that they really couldn't get any worse but they will likely be trading their best pitcher and should really trade their second best pitcher away as well. It really isn't inconceivable that they wind up losing over 100 games.

C-Dawg
05-27-2012, 08:19 AM
I remember a Cubs team starting the season 0-14 sometime in the mid 1990s.

A funny story: Remember a few years ago when the Tigers started a season with a similar losing streak - what was it, 2003 or 2004 I think? I was having a conversation with some Cub fans, and they were suddenly all enamored with following the Tigers each day to see how long the streak would go on. On a hunch, I asked if they did the same thing in 1997 with the Cubs long losing streak. My question was met with blank stares. Finally, one claimed to me that "the Cubs would never have a losing streak like that!". Yeah, right.

:rolleyes:

DrCrawdad
05-27-2012, 09:03 AM
I think I have also mellowed with age when it comes to the baby bears and the White Sox Chicago rivalry.

For me, it came to a feverish pitch during the height of the Tribune era carnival atmosphere with Sammy Sosa and his steroid activated, corked bat chase for the single season HR record, my genuine dislike for Mark "The Messiah" Prior and the over-hyped Dusty Baker. However I'm also old enough to remember when they closed off the upper deck in the late 70s due to lack of attendance.

I have a few friends and family who are true Cub fans and not just fans of the Wrigley Field "experience". I feel bad that that have to watch another train wreck of a season, however I also told them that if they continue to draw 3M plus "fans" every season, why would the ownership need to make any changes?

I'm with you on that. Remember how Sox fans would get pummeled for suggesting that Sammy's quantum leap in body size and HR's might have not been natural? Meanwhile all the local yokel media eagerly lapped it up and turned around and peddled it to the public.

Interestingly, now it's in vogue for Cubbies fans to say the exact same things Sox fans said about Sammy. Of course very few had the courage to step up and dare to criticize Sammy until the Cubune turned their forces against Sammy.

Funny thing is how Sammy is shunned now by Cubbie fans and the team.


Me, too, but moreso because I remain unconvinced that Epstein and Hoyer actually know what they are doing and more that they just happened to get lucky and land in the right place at the right time with Boston.

The other day on the Score one of the hosts was saying how Epstein inherited a sub .500 Red Sox team and turned them into a 2 time World Series Champion. The 2002 Red Sox won 93 games, hardly asub .500 team.

The Epstein Mythology Machine makes him into the Genius Boy GM, who singlehandedly turned the Red Sox from sub .500 to two time World Series Champs and ignores...

* The winning team Epstein inherited.
* The 2005 White Sox sweeping away Epstein's Red Sox, and Epstein running away in a gorilla suit.
* The absolute train wreck of Epstein's 2011 Red Sox and the shambles he ran away from.
* The steroid fueled Red Sox World Series Championships.

Agreed. I think they spend too much time patting themselves on their backs for that computer

True.

Brian26
05-27-2012, 09:19 AM
He did look verklemmt, didn't he. Near tears for sure. Nothing quite as enjoyable as that look on his Cubbie loving face. The day before he got under Gonzo's skin and got told off. I thought he had skills, but he's the wrong guy to host a general sports show.

What was that one about? I missed that.

LITTLE NELL
05-27-2012, 10:11 AM
Maybe this year can give us the 1994 season we never fully realized- the White Sox were in 1st place that year and Cubs completely sucked- but for their worst team ever I'd have to go with the 1962 Cubs- mediocrity + the ridiculous "College of Coaches" concept. Their managers that year were a blend of Charlie Metro + Lou Klein + El Tappe. They finished behind the expansion Houston Colt 45's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_of_Coaches

The 1966 team was bad- but at least had some young and promising talent- all of their 1969 starters except in CF and RF w/Holtzman and Hands in the rotation and Jenkins in the pen.

I remember 1962 very well because I was a vendor that year at Comiskey and Wrigley. The Cubs were 10th out of 10 that year in attendance and drew a little over 600,000. 9,750 showed up for opening day. What I remember most about that day was a few of us vendors were sitting in the left field bleachers before the gates openned up and Lou Brock who was starting his first full season with the Cubs was shagging fly balls. I yelled out to him and threw him a penny for good luck and he picked it up, said thanks and put it in his back pocket. I still hated the Cubs and hated selling at Wrigley but it was part of the job. If I made 5 bucks a game selling Coke or peanuts at Wrigley, I was doing well. I can only remember a few games that the upper deck was open that year. At Comiskey 15 to 20 bucks a game was the norm for that summer.

SaltyPretzel
05-27-2012, 10:11 AM
Make it 11 in a row. Dolis plunks Hague in a tie game in the bottom of the ninth with the bases loaded. :lol::whiteflag:

http://www.sadtuba.com/ :tongue:

slavko
05-27-2012, 10:55 AM
I missed it what he say to Gonzo?

Questioning the Danks signing, implying the shoulder issue was common knowledge.

Hitmen77
05-27-2012, 12:25 PM
1997 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/1997-schedule-scores.shtml)

I'm pretty sure their 0-14 start is the worst in National League history.

Ah, Wrigley Field and the Cubs have such a rich and storied history!

Red Barchetta
05-27-2012, 01:02 PM
I'm with you on that. Remember how Sox fans would get pummeled for suggesting that Sammy's quantum leap in body size and HR's might have not been natural? Meanwhile all the local yokel media eagerly lapped it up and turned around and peddled it to the public.

Interestingly, now it's in vogue for Cubbies fans to say the exact same things Sox fans said about Sammy. Of course very few had the courage to step up and dare to criticize Sammy until the Cubune turned their forces against Sammy.

Funny thing is how Sammy is shunned now by Cubbie fans and the team.



I remember the season Sosa arrived late to spring training and then arrived by helicopter during the middle of practice to announce his arrival. I remember Mark Grace basically biting his tongue every time the media asked him questions about the clubhouse atmosphere, etc.

I for one was very happy when Grace got his WS ring with the Diamondbacks the season after leaving the Cubs and his series of 1-year contract extensions. I always thought both Grace and Kerry Wood were class acts in an organizations that had no class. The fact that Wood supposedly took a bat to Sosa's clubhouse shrine/boombox after Sosa quit on the team the last game of the season is priceless.

BigKlu59
05-27-2012, 03:04 PM
I remember 1962 very well because I was a vendor that year at Comiskey and Wrigley. The Cubs were 10th out of 10 that year in attendance and drew a little over 600,000. 9,750 showed up for opening day. What I remember most about that day was a few of us vendors were sitting in the left field bleachers before the gates openned up and Lou Brock who was starting his first full season with the Cubs was shagging fly balls. I yelled out to him and threw him a penny for good luck and he picked it up, said thanks and put it in his back pocket. I still hated the Cubs and hated selling at Wrigley but it was part of the job. If I made 5 bucks a game selling Coke or peanuts at Wrigley, I was doing well. I can only remember a few games that the upper deck was open that year. At Comiskey 15 to 20 bucks a game was the norm for that summer.

Thanks for the memories... I remember being dragged to Wrigley by a friends father who was lost in the 30's Cubdom. He said he was gonna deprogram me from following those nasty south siders..We used to get into some funny discussions bout who was the better team. I think I hit a nerve one day when I told him I was sure the Sox beat the Yankees more than they ever have... and that the team that was down on the field would finish behind the Washinton Senators.. Of course I could gloat, the Sox were in the process of reeling off 270+ wins in that time span:D:

Wow,20 bucks a game. you my good man were rolling in the dough.. I hope ya didnt waste it on the ponies at Maywood...

BK59

Zakath
05-27-2012, 04:00 PM
Barring a miracle, it's going to 12. Cubs are getting lit up in Pittsburgh.

DSpivack
05-27-2012, 04:42 PM
The Cubs closed off the upper deck as 'recently' as September 1983 (have the story on tape about it...)

Lip

When watching Ferris Bueller's Day Off with friends, I always point out how empty the park was that day.

Zakath
05-27-2012, 04:44 PM
It's official. 12 straight.

Maybe they can break it against the Padres... :redneck

If you include the end of the 1996 season and the beginning of 1997, the Cubs lost 16 straight. Still trying to see if there's a longer one.

LITTLE NELL
05-27-2012, 04:52 PM
When watching Ferris Bueller's Day Off with friends, I always point out how empty the park was that day.

Kids were still in school, except for Ferris and Co.

LITTLE NELL
05-27-2012, 04:58 PM
Thanks for the memories... I remember being dragged to Wrigley by a friends father who was lost in the 30's Cubdom. He said he was gonna deprogram me from following those nasty south siders..We used to get into some funny discussions bout who was the better team. I think I hit a nerve one day when I told him I was sure the Sox beat the Yankees more than they ever have... and that the team that was down on the field would finish behind the Washinton Senators.. Of course I could gloat, the Sox were in the process of reeling off 270+ wins in that time span:D:

Wow,20 bucks a game. you my good man were rolling in the dough.. I hope ya didnt waste it on the ponies at Maywood...

BK59

You know I only went to Maywood Park once and that was around 1990, spent a lot of time at Arlington though.

JB98
05-27-2012, 05:43 PM
Heh heh ... this is getting pretty funny.

Even more hysterical, if the Cubs do manage to scrape out a win against the Padres, the Wrigley sheep will still sing "Go Cubs Go" with great gusto. Idiots.

gobears1987
05-27-2012, 06:05 PM
It's no joke that the L flag has to be replaced far more frequently due to wear than the W flag.

I love every year during the crosstown series when a few Sox fans raise an "L" flag in the outfield when we beat them.

ZombieRob
05-27-2012, 06:05 PM
Heh heh ... this is getting pretty funny.

Even more hysterical, if the Cubs do manage to scrape out a win against the Padres, the Wrigley sheep will still sing "Go Cubs Go" with great gusto. Idiots.
True hence my dislike of their propaganda. The only place in the World where people think constant losing is fun.

FielderJones
05-27-2012, 06:09 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p480x480/552880_3290913624704_1324853585_n.jpg

DSpivack
05-27-2012, 06:11 PM
Heh heh ... this is getting pretty funny.

Even more hysterical, if the Cubs do manage to scrape out a win against the Padres, the Wrigley sheep will still sing "Go Cubs Go" with great gusto. Idiots.

A friend of mine lived here for 3 years for law school and is moving away soon after graduation. She's never been to a baseball game in Chicago, so I think I'll take here to a Cubs game this week--stub hub has tickets for $5. And a Sox game at some point this month.

SOXSINCE'70
05-27-2012, 07:01 PM
Has Sveum talked about the nickel-and-dime people who don't work, yet?

"They can kiss my ass,right downtown,and PRINT IT!":roflmao::rolling:

SOXSINCE'70
05-27-2012, 07:07 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p480x480/552880_3290913624704_1324853585_n.jpg

:whiteflag::roflmao:

TheOldRoman
05-27-2012, 07:12 PM
I had a laugh today when I remembered that turd Sveum's pouty "I couldn't get any lower than getting swept by the Sox" diatribe. One week later and they have now lost 12 in a row. Think it can get any lower still?

Dan H
05-27-2012, 07:20 PM
It's no joke that the L flag has to be replaced far more frequently due to wear than the W flag.

I love every year during the crosstown series when a few Sox fans raise an "L" flag in the outfield when we beat them.

I think it is pathetic that Cub fans still put out that W flag the few times their putrid team wins a game. This year's team is going nowhere and baby genuis Theo better pull them out of it or he'll be run up a flag pole.

DSpivack
05-27-2012, 07:28 PM
I think it is pathetic that Cub fans still put out that W flag the few times their putrid team wins a game. This year's team is going nowhere and baby genuis Theo better pull them out of it or he'll be run up a flag pole.

They wave a white flag... even when they win!

Zakath
05-27-2012, 07:37 PM
I had a laugh today when I remembered that turd Sveum's pouty "I couldn't get any lower than getting swept by the Sox" diatribe. One week later and they have now lost 12 in a row. Think it can get any lower still?

I'd say getting swept by a team that hasn't had a winning season in 20 years is a lot lower.

Sveum might want to go into a drug-induced coma until October. He's got a lot of low points left in the 2012 season.

JB98
05-27-2012, 07:58 PM
I think it is pathetic that Cub fans still put out that W flag the few times their putrid team wins a game. This year's team is going nowhere and baby genuis Theo better pull them out of it or he'll be run up a flag pole.

There's a guy who lives not too far from me who still has his W flag flying proudly outside his house. I just shake my head when I ride my bike past there each morning during my daily exercise routine.

RadioheadRocks
05-27-2012, 08:50 PM
It's no joke that the L flag has to be replaced far more frequently due to wear than the W flag.

I love every year during the crosstown series when a few Sox fans raise an "L" flag in the outfield when we beat them.


It's a Way of Life

A. Cavatica
05-27-2012, 09:06 PM
Worst Cub team ever?

All of them.

Railsplitter
05-27-2012, 10:58 PM
It's official. 12 straight.

Maybe they can break it against the Padres... :redneck

Pirates fans are sad the Cubs are leaving town. Loved the Brooms and Jolly Roger flags waved after the win today.

RCWHITESOX
05-27-2012, 11:47 PM
Come on Chicago The Cubs with one of the worst teams in baseball leading MLB in average attendance. The Sox are down towards the bottom; what the hell is going on here?

slavko
05-28-2012, 01:22 AM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p480x480/552880_3290913624704_1324853585_n.jpg

This is beyond Fun Bad, I really feel sorry for those fans. Aw, I'm ****tin' ya.

StillMissOzzie
05-28-2012, 01:38 AM
I think it is pathetic that Cub fans still put out that W flag the few times their putrid team wins a game. This year's team is going nowhere and baby genuis Theo better pull them out of it or he'll be run up a flag pole.

I get a chuckle when I think of all the blue sheep morons who have to slink home with their stupid "W" flags stuffed in theirs jackets after another Cub loss.

SMO
:gulp:

LongLiveFisk
05-28-2012, 10:56 AM
It's a Way of Life

I still laugh at the poor judgment of that slogan. :lol:

kittle42
05-28-2012, 11:12 AM
Come on Chicago The Cubs with one of the worst teams in baseball leading MLB in average attendance. The Sox are down towards the bottom; what the hell is going on here?

If you went to Wrigley today, I bet 25% of the people there would tell you the Cubs are in first place.

Red Barchetta
05-28-2012, 11:16 AM
Come on Chicago The Cubs with one of the worst teams in baseball leading MLB in average attendance. The Sox are down towards the bottom; what the hell is going on here?

That's because of the Cubs ad campaign: "It's the ballpark, stupid".

DumpJerry
05-28-2012, 11:44 AM
Come on Chicago The Cubs with one of the worst teams in baseball leading MLB in average attendance. The Sox are down towards the bottom; what the hell is going on here?
Those numbers are tickets sold, not turnstyle turns. The Cubs have a wait list for season tickets. Many of the seats around me at Comiskey that had been season seats for many years are now available at the Box Office. There's a reason why MLB does not report no-shows.

Golden Sox
05-28-2012, 11:45 AM
It's not the ballpark. It's the location of the ballpark. If you picked up Wrigley Field and put it at 35th and Shields, would the Cubs franchise be as popular as it is now? They have turned a Cubs game into a event. The Mardi Gras atmosphere has worked wonders for that franchise. I read last year in a article with the Cubs owner and he said that 38% of the Cubs attendance comes from people who live out of state. If you moved Wrigley Field to 35th and Shields, they would never attract that type of crowd. White Sox fans go to the Cell to see a baseball game. Cubs fans go to the Dump for other reasons than to just watch a baseball game. I have to admit that the whole Wrigleyville atmosphere has worked for them. They have a stadium thats a dump, outrageous ticket prices, lousy food, no parking and lousy teams and they draw 3 million people a year.

doublem23
05-28-2012, 11:50 AM
It's not the ballpark. It's the location of the ballpark. If you picked up Wrigley Field and put it at 35th and Shields, would the Cubs franchise be as popular as it is now?

That's kind of hard to say, there was a time I remember that Wrigleyville was a sketchy, run down neighborhood. Yeah, the area around Wrigley is a lot nicer than Bridgeport now, but there was a time when it wasn't sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows.

There's a lot of reasons why the Cubs and Sox are in their relative positions right now, singling out one isn't going to give you an answer.

FielderJones
05-28-2012, 12:33 PM
There's a lot of reasons why the Cubs and Sox are in their relative positions right now, singling out one isn't going to give you an answer.

I think Cubune Company marketing would be the major reason. Grandfathered exception to the anti-trust rules of the time gave them newspaper, radio, OTA-TV, and cable TV saturation of all things Cubs, paid for with internal bookkeeping entries. Reinsdorf didn't have that advantage for 30 years. That's two generations of fans.

Zakath
05-28-2012, 12:49 PM
Come on Chicago The Cubs with one of the worst teams in baseball leading MLB in average attendance. The Sox are down towards the bottom; what the hell is going on here?

No, they're not. They're 8th. Philadelphia leads MLB in average attendance.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

The Sox are 27th, unfortunately, which puts us 2 places above two teams that are both in first place, Tampa and Cleveland.

MarySwiss
05-28-2012, 01:08 PM
A house on the next block has been proudly flying their Cubs flag. I just drove by, and it's not there anymore.

That usually doesn't happen until mid-July or so. :cool:

FielderJones
05-28-2012, 02:36 PM
And Quentin hits an RBI double in his first 2012 MLB at bat, against the Cubs. :D:

gobears1987
05-28-2012, 02:46 PM
I hate to say it, but the Cubs will probably win a game against the Padres.

Frontman
05-28-2012, 04:30 PM
I hate to say it, but the Cubs will probably win a game against the Padres.

Don't post that too soon. Seems like both teams refuse to win this one.

Zakath
05-28-2012, 05:51 PM
The losing streak is over. Paint the town blue.

Frontman
05-28-2012, 05:55 PM
"Diz iz ourz year!!! SCREW DEM SUX FANZ!!!! GO CUBS GOooooo........!!!!"

Soxman219
05-28-2012, 06:05 PM
This will probably be the leading story on the news tonight.

JB98
05-28-2012, 06:05 PM
"Diz iz ourz year!!! SCREW DEM SUX FANZ!!!! GO CUBS GOooooo........!!!!"

"We got the power, we got the speed, to be the best in the National League!"

TDog
05-28-2012, 06:40 PM
This will probably be the leading story on the news tonight.

The long national nightmare is over.

Actually, when the White Sox won their first game of 1968, a sunny April afternoon in the old park, breaking a then-season-opening-record 10-game losing streak, it was the lead story on the WBBM news. But I doubt any station other than WGN would lead the newscast with today's Cubs win.

The fact that the low-scoring Cubs scored 11 today and the lower-scoring Padres scored 7 may put into perspective the high scoring going on this weekend on the south side, even though the Cubs and Sox play in different ballparks.

Or maybe it's just a coincidence.

Frontman
05-28-2012, 06:42 PM
This will probably be the leading story on the news tonight.

On WGN? Absolutely. Probably Fox as well. The rest will probably lead with something involving the holiday.......

kittle42
05-28-2012, 07:15 PM
I was on Clark St. when they won. You would have thought they just clinched the division.

You want to know why that place is packed every day? Because the attendees simply don't care what reality is.

Frontman
05-28-2012, 07:17 PM
I was on Clark St. when they won. You would have thought they just clinched the division.

You want to know why that place is packed every day? Because the attendees simply don't care what reality is.

That's a given, considering no matter what the record is, no matter how good or bad either team in town is, the first thing out of a Wrigley fan's mouth is "The Cubs are the better team."

DrCrawdad
05-28-2012, 07:27 PM
I was on Clark St. when they won. You would have thought they just clinched the division.

You want to know why that place is packed every day? Because the attendees simply don't care what reality is.

Don't repeat that urban legend here, please.

C-Dawg
05-28-2012, 08:33 PM
That's a given, considering no matter what the record is, no matter how good or bad either team in town is, the first thing out of a Wrigley fan's mouth is "The Cubs are the better team."

What I usually hear from them is "C'mon, man, its Wrigley Field!! What's not to love?"

Thus proving its all about the ballpark anyway.

chaotic8512
05-28-2012, 09:27 PM
What I usually hear from them is "C'mon, man, its Wrigley Field!! What's not to love?"

Thus proving its all about the ballpark anyway.

As a non-Chicagoan, this is all I seem to hear when I bring up my wife and I planning to visit Chicago. On the plus side, I've gotten really good at wincing.

Hitmen77
05-28-2012, 10:00 PM
What I usually hear from them is "C'mon, man, its Wrigley Field!! What's not to love?"

Thus proving its all about the ballpark anyway.

Bingo.

DumpJerry
05-28-2012, 10:12 PM
This will probably be the leading story on the news tonight.

Chanel 5 a 6:00 (long after both games ended) led with Chris Sale's 15. I guess they did not get thge memo.

You want to know why that place is packed every day?
What place? Wrigely? It isn't. They sell every ticket, but they have many no-shows. Whenever I see the highlights on the news, there are many empty seats. I was at the Friday Sox/Cub game this year-plenty of good seats were available.

ChiSoxGirl
05-28-2012, 10:19 PM
This will probably be the leading story on the news tonight.

WGN led the 9:00 news with the severe weather in the area, followed by today's record heat. There has been no mention of either sports story so far....

DSpivack
05-28-2012, 10:27 PM
Chanel 5 a 6:00 (long after both games ended) led with Chris Sale's 15. I guess they did not get thge memo.

What place? Wrigely? It isn't. They sell every ticket, but they have many no-shows. Whenever I see the highlights on the news, there are many empty seats. I was at the Friday Sox/Cub game this year-plenty of good seats were available.

The latter is a great point. A friend of mine has lived here three years and has somehow never been to a baseball game at either park (then again, she also just finished law school), so I'm taking her to a Cubs and Sox game in the next couple weeks. We got Cubs tickets for wednesday in the secondary market, for $5.

As for the first point, I don't think Sale wears Chanel #5, it's perfume.

TDog
05-28-2012, 10:27 PM
I was on Clark St. when they won. You would have thought they just clinched the division.

You want to know why that place is packed every day? Because the attendees simply don't care what reality is.

I would never criticize a fan base for supporting its team.

Zakath
05-28-2012, 11:21 PM
I would never criticize a fan base for supporting its team.

Most fan bases actually care about the team winning and losing.

Cubs "fans" are oblivious to it.

TDog
05-29-2012, 01:03 AM
Most fan bases actually care about the team winning and losing.

Cubs "fans" are oblivious to it.

There is nothing wrong with supporting your team, win or lose.

mzh
05-29-2012, 07:10 AM
There is nothing wrong with supporting your team, win or lose.
Yeah, but at least most fan bases have the humility to put the paper bag over their head when they're the worst team in baseball.

doublem23
05-29-2012, 09:30 AM
On WGN? Absolutely.

Only off by 58 minutes. :thumbsup:

And WGN lead Sports with the Sox.

cws05champ
05-29-2012, 10:11 AM
There is nothing wrong with supporting your team, win or lose.
This is a simplistic view when talking about Wrigley field and Cubs "fans". Sure the Cubs have many die hard fans...but the vast majority are just there because of the location or they are tourists. They are not supporting their team. They are just supporting Wrigley field more than anything...if the Cubs happen to win they can sing their silly song and go to the bars happy. This is seen in the paraphernalia around the park...the Wrigley Field shirts, with the "Shut up and drink your beer" on the back. Everytime I talk to someone wearing that shirt I ask them if Wrigley Field won today.

Lip Man 1
05-29-2012, 10:31 AM
With many "Cub fans" what matters most is that the beer is cold, the sun is shining and the women look good.

Unlike some of the previous posters that to me isn't "supporting" your team.

The bottom line is winning and losing, every thing else is window dressing.

Sox fans will not support garbage / mediocrity. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. The Sox are a business to many people, especially ownership, therefore they are under the same obligations as any other business. If they aren't good, just like a restaurant or a hardware store, customers are under no obligation...zero...to support them until they are. The Sox have had three losing seasons in the past five years, they had a manager who ripped the fan base on at least two occasions...both factors in my opinion on the situation as it exist today.

Lip

Hitmen77
05-29-2012, 11:50 AM
And WGN lead Sports with the Sox.

Yep, Dan Roan led off with Sox coverage. NBC5's sports segment at 10:00 led off with the Cubs.

PaleHoser
05-29-2012, 12:27 PM
Q: Why don't the Cubs have a web site?
A: They can't put three W's together.

DrCrawdad
05-29-2012, 03:26 PM
The Carlos Quentin just him a HR on Cubs pitcher, The Smarmy One. Quentin better be ready to be HBP his next AB.

Moses_Scurry
05-29-2012, 03:37 PM
The Carlos Quentin just him a HR on Cubs pitcher, The Smarmy One. Quentin better be ready to be HBP his next AB.

Damn, I was just coming here to post the exact same thing. Almost word for word. Good luck TCQ. Don't let it put you on the DL.

FielderJones
05-29-2012, 04:26 PM
The Carlos Quentin just him a HR on Cubs pitcher, The Smarmy One. Quentin better be ready to be HBP his next AB.

Quentin's ready to be HBP on every at bat.

DrCrawdad
05-29-2012, 04:57 PM
Quentin's ready to be HBP on every at bat.

You're right about that!

TDog
05-29-2012, 05:16 PM
With many "Cub fans" what matters most is that the beer is cold, the sun is shining and the women look good.

Unlike some of the previous posters that to me isn't "supporting" your team.

The bottom line is winning and losing, every thing else is window dressing.

Sox fans will not support garbage / mediocrity. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. The Sox are a business to many people, especially ownership, therefore they are under the same obligations as any other business. If they aren't good, just like a restaurant or a hardware store, customers are under no obligation...zero...to support them until they are. The Sox have had three losing seasons in the past five years, they had a manager who ripped the fan base on at least two occasions...both factors in my opinion on the situation as it exist today.

Lip

As someone who paid to see the White Sox play in 1970 and who went to opening day in 1977 where there were a lot of empty seats, as someone who drives more than an hour to see the White Sox play any time they are playing within three hours of me, I take great offense to your comments.

The White Sox haven't ignored the fans and put garbage on the field. They aren't even put mediocrity on the field this year while fans justify the integrity of low attendance. Sometimes they haven't played well, but it isn't like the White Sox are the the Pirates. The White Sox have a substantial payroll, and they are competitive in their division.

In fact, this 27-22 White Sox team is only one game off the pace of the beloved 1977 White Sox team that fans get misty over, although the 1977 team was two games out of first at the time. And this team is more fundamentally sound and has far superior pitching. Fans seem so intent on defending the integrity of White Sox fans who refuse to put up with a garbage team that they haven't even noticed that this team is playing pretty good baseball and should be worthy of even their high standards.

The attitude that good fans don't go to see their team play if their team doesn't win is a bad attitude because most teams in major league baseball don't win. I respect people who live in the Chicago area who talk about not being able to afford more games or not being excited enough about the team to pay to go to more games, but the idea that fans shouldn't go to games out of principle because they don't win more will not help the team improve. And when someone calls them on the asinine logic (logic that is more likely to result in the team being lost than the team improving), it is countered by the non sequitur response of attacking the attack as "blaming the fans."

I really despise the Cubs. I despise the way Cubs fans have treated me since the 1960s because I am a White Sox fan. I despise the discussion of attendance over wins. I would celebrate the disappearance of the Chicago Cubs from 21st century America. But I admire the fact Cubs fans support their team. I wish they would support my team.

Moses_Scurry
05-29-2012, 07:58 PM
I'm fairly late to this party, but I've been reading the thread. I just didn't really feel like typing a long response on the iPhone. I don't know if this is the worst all-around cub team ever, but their lineup is absolutely putrid right now. Lahair has cooled off pretty significantly leaving Castro as the only real threat (Soriano's recent hot streak doesn't qualify him as a threat yet). Even Castro isn't really much of a power threat right now, and he is terrible at drawing walks.

I do feel that they have a pretty solid rotation however. Maybe I'll be flamed for this (rightfully so), but I think that closer to the trade deadline, Kenny should at least put in a call to the Boy Wonder to see what they would have to give up to get Dempster as a 1/2 season rental. With Humber and Floyd really being inconsistent, they could use an extra piece in the rotation, and Dempster's been pretty good this year. He has 10/5 trade veto rights, but if he is staying in Chicago he might be more inclined to accept it. It would really depend on what the cubs would want for him. If salary relief and a C prospect is all it will take, then it might be a smart move. I certainly wouldn't give up any valuable prospects for him. Garza is a better pitcher, but would probably cost a lot more than the Sox have or would want to part with.

Frontman
05-29-2012, 08:30 PM
Only off by 58 minutes. :thumbsup:

And WGN lead Sports with the Sox.

Wow. Go figure.

Zakath
06-04-2012, 08:21 AM
The euphoria of sweeping the lowly Padres has been quickly tempered in the Bay Area, where the hapless Cubs have lost three straight low-scoring games to the Giants, scoring a grand total of 4 runs. They now stand at 18-35, which projects out to 55-107 for the season.

It doesn't get much easier, as after the wraparound series finale today, the Cubs go to Milwaukee for three then to Minnesota, before coming home to face the Tigers and Red Sox.

Hitmen77
06-04-2012, 04:51 PM
The euphoria of sweeping the lowly Padres has been quickly tempered in the Bay Area, where the hapless Cubs have lost three straight low-scoring games to the Giants, scoring a grand total of 4 runs. They now stand at 18-35, which projects out to 55-107 for the season.

It doesn't get much easier, as after the wraparound series finale today, the Cubs go to Milwaukee for three then to Minnesota, before coming home to face the Tigers and Red Sox.

I'll be rooting for the Cubs to sweep the Tigers.

jdm2662
06-04-2012, 04:52 PM
I'll be rooting for the Cubs to sweep the Tigers.

GO CUBS GO! At least against the Tigers.

Zakath
06-04-2012, 07:20 PM
Giants pull off the 4-game sweep, with a come-from-behind 3-2 win. Cubs have now lost 11 straight on the road, tying a franchise record that they can break tomorrow in Milwaukee.

Amazingly, they're still not the worst team in baseball. They're 1/2 a game ahead of the Padres (the only two teams in the majors who have NOT won their 20th game yet).

DrCrawdad
06-04-2012, 07:27 PM
Way to keep your head in the game there Castro!

Mod edit: NO COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL!
Sterling play!

Brewski
06-04-2012, 08:36 PM
Giants pull off the 4-game sweep, with a come-from-behind 3-2 win. Cubs have now lost 11 straight on the road, tying a franchise record that they can break tomorrow in Milwaukee.

Amazingly, they're still not the worst team in baseball. They're 1/2 a game ahead of the Padres (the only two teams in the majors who have NOT won their 20th game yet).

The great thing was seeing Marmol hit flush in the ass with a vicious line drive. I love pitchers who are in no position to field after delivering a pitch.

GlassSox
06-04-2012, 09:26 PM
I am really enjoying the Cubs this year. I have received only one email from Cubs fans and that one said she is done with the Cubs for this year. Fair weather fan!

TDog
06-04-2012, 10:00 PM
Way to keep your head in the game there Castro! ...

I've seen worse, including a first baseman who flipped the ball to a pitcher coming up the line thinking the second out with runners on base was the third out. (It was against the White Sox a long time ago, probably 1972 because pretty much all I remember was Harry Caray was calling the game.)

But this the sort of play in a 2-1 game that people won't forget, especially on a team that could lose more than 100 games.

The Cubs won't lose 120 as the 1962 Mets did, and probably won't generate the funny-way-to-lose stories. But in the last couple of weeks, including this weekend, they walked in the winning runs in one-run games. This didn't lose the game. I thought another bases-loaded walk would, but the Cubs instead conceded the eventual winning run to get a double play. That seemed an odd thing to do. Maybe the Cubs are treating this season like extended spring training and wanted to teach Castro how to do it right.

Golden Sox
06-04-2012, 10:47 PM
First of all, I hate them and I hope they lose every game they play. I've only followed them casually this year. I enjoyed the White Sox-Cubs series a few weeks ago at the Dump. From what I have seen of them they don't seem to have anybody who will hit 25 home runs. This might be the first time in years that they don't have a power hitter. Playing in a hitters park like they do, I find that amazing. Secondly, I have no clue as to what they are trying to do. I keep hearing on the Score that they are totally rebuilding the team and this might take 4-5 years. Bill Veeck once said "The future is now. 5 year plans usually lead to another 5 year plan". Needless to say, I wish them the worse.

Frontman
06-04-2012, 11:15 PM
I know all baseball teams have players with bizarre names, but to me it seems that the Cubs carry more than their fair share.

Hard not to laugh when a possible building block of the team for the future is named "Darwin Barney." :rolleyes: Can't help but feel he's the love child of these two:


http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/091124-charles-darwin-vsm.grid-4x2.jpg

and

http://www.awn.com/files/imagepicker/35/Barney%20arms%20out%20pose%203.jpg



I can't laugh too much at Castro's mental error today as it happens, but come on man, there are scoreboards everywhere on the field. Y'think it would be easy to keep track of how many outs the team has.

Eventually Theo will get the Cubs competitive, but its going to take a lot of work. Reports are Soriano is willing to be traded. Can't for the life of me see it happening, unless its a desperate AL team in need of a DH.

HomeFish
06-04-2012, 11:17 PM
We laugh now, but the Cubs will have awesome draft picks coming up. This is how you rebuild, not the half-ass rebuilding that is happening on the south side.

JB98
06-04-2012, 11:19 PM
We laugh now, but the Cubs will have awesome draft picks coming up. This is how you rebuild, not the half-ass rebuilding that is happening on the south side.

Name them.

DumpJerry
06-04-2012, 11:29 PM
We laugh now, but the Cubs will have awesome draft picks coming up. This is how you rebuild, not the half-ass rebuilding that is happening on the south side.
Theo, how do you have time to post on WSI on Draft Night? I thought you would be busy making history.

thomas35forever
06-04-2012, 11:34 PM
I don't think anyone thought the Cubs would be this bad. I know I should be laughing at them and their fans right now as we continue to win games, but the fans have been quiet and rightfully so. I actually feel a bit sorry for them. They might set an ML record for most times swept in a season. It's early June, so it's very possible. No team should ever have to go through what they are right now, but that's not how baseball works.

I know the Cubs are still outdrawing us, but at least there are some empty seats at Wrigley now. A nice way of saying "we're as mad as hell and we're not gonna take this anymore."

JB98
06-04-2012, 11:39 PM
I don't think anyone thought the Cubs would be this bad. I know I should be laughing at them and their fans right now as we continue to win games, but the fans have been quiet and rightfully so. I actually feel a bit sorry for them. They might set an ML record for most times swept in a season. It's early June, so it's very possible. No team should ever have to go through what they are right now, but that's not how baseball works.

I know the Cubs are still outdrawing us, but at least there are some empty seats at Wrigley now. A nice way of saying "we're as mad as hell and we're not gonna take this anymore."

Ehhh ... I don't feel sorry for them. They don't feel sorry for us when the White Sox struggle.

DrCrawdad
06-04-2012, 11:51 PM
We laugh now, but the Cubs will have awesome draft picks coming up. This is how you rebuild, not the half-ass rebuilding that is happening on the south side.

Blah, blah, blah...been hearing that for ages. I remember back when they drafted Beanball Ben Christenson (sp?), they drafted Bobby Hill (Cubbie Clowns were so cocky to have drafted and SIGNED a guy the Sox drafted and couldn't sign) then they had Hee Sop Choi. All the hype was how stacked they were with prospects - nothing could stop the Cubbies. How'd that work out for you?

TDog
06-04-2012, 11:53 PM
We laugh now, but the Cubs will have awesome draft picks coming up. This is how you rebuild, not the half-ass rebuilding that is happening on the south side.

This exaggerates the situation. The White Sox have a very good team right now. They are a contender, a fact you refuse to accept. Will the Cubs get the first pick in the draft next year? I don't know that they will. Will they get a bunch of compensation-round picks? Probably not. There are teams that will select at least two or three players before the Cubs pick two. And even draft picks that look awesome might not turn out that way.

The year the White Sox took Frank Thomas with the No. 7 pick in the first round, the Cardinals picking in front of them and the Cubs picking behind them, both selected players that never made it to the major leagues. The Phillies picked fourth that year, could have had Frank Thomas but had to have Chicago high school outfielder Jeff Jackson instead. And the year the White Sox took Gordon Beckham with the eight pick, a team with a reputation for great first-round picks, the Rays, had the first pick and drafted a player who has yet to make it to the majors, and is currently under suspension for his second violation of the drug rule.

The Cubs haven't rebuilt yet. Really they haven't started rebuilding. They still just getting worse. I will laugh now. Maybe I will keep laughing because the way they are going about it, the Cubs could well do a half-ass job of rebuilding.

Wait until the Cubs actually have rebuilt a contender before you rave about what a great job they're doing.

RadioheadRocks
06-05-2012, 12:23 AM
We laugh now, but the Cubs will have awesome draft picks coming up. This is how you rebuild, not the half-ass rebuilding that is happening on the south side.

:cleo

"I'll thank you not to do my job, mon!"

Soxman219
06-05-2012, 01:48 AM
We laugh now, but the Cubs will have awesome draft picks coming up. This is how you rebuild, not the half-ass rebuilding that is happening on the south side.

Yeah, like the Royals and Pirates right?

hawkjt
06-05-2012, 02:12 AM
The Cubs had a lot of picks in the draft,but it was loudly proclaimed the worst draft in at least a decade,so the jury is out on whether the Cubs will get good players with all those picks.

The Sox might have picked the next Mantle and Maris tonite....you just never know.

TomBradley72
06-05-2012, 07:26 AM
We laugh now, but the Cubs will have awesome draft picks coming up. This is how you rebuild, not the half-ass rebuilding that is happening on the south side.

The White Sox have a potential young All Star in the starting rotation (Sale) + 4 quality young arms in the pen (Reed, Jones, Santiago, Quintana) + quality young position players like Viciedo and Beckham. Seven players out of a 25 man roster. You can possibly add Flowers and Escobar to this list.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0605-bits-white-sox-blue-jays-chicago-2-20120605,0,5988173.story

Just because you're on track to lose 100+ games doesn't mean you're executing some awesome rebuilding strategy- after clueless Castro and the next coming of Ernie Banks at AAA- in what way are the Cubs really on track for rebuilding? (Ian Stewart? Travis Wood?) They got almost nothing in return for a high quality arm- Sean Marshall and a decent CF- Byrd and their new manager Sveum already comes across as overwhelmed and discouraged after only 8 weeks of the "best job in baseball". I can't see the Cubs being any good before 2015- after sucking since their last post season appearance (2008)- so at least a 7 year year run of mediocrity- sounds pretty half assed to me.

Moses_Scurry
06-05-2012, 07:33 AM
We laugh now, but the Cubs will have awesome draft picks coming up. This is how you rebuild, not the half-ass rebuilding that is happening on the south side.

Would you really want to sit through a season like the cubs are having in order to get a higher pick in the draft? Last year was pretty crappy too, and I would bet next year will also be crappy.

If I knew the Sox would be good because of the draft picks, but had to sit through 3 or more consecutive 90+ loss seasons, I wouldn't like it very much.

Zakath
06-05-2012, 07:51 AM
I don't think anyone thought the Cubs would be this bad. I know I should be laughing at them and their fans right now as we continue to win games, but the fans have been quiet and rightfully so. I actually feel a bit sorry for them.

Don't worry; they'll return to mediocrity soon from their current levels of hilarious ineptitude and their fans will perk right back up to being obnoxious again.

SI1020
06-05-2012, 08:29 AM
Blah, blah, blah...been hearing that for ages. I remember back when they drafted Beanball Ben Christenson (sp?), they drafted Bobby Hill (Cubbie Clowns were so cocky to have drafted and SIGNED a guy the Sox drafted and couldn't sign) then they had Hee Sop Choi. All the hype was how stacked they were with prospects - nothing could stop the Cubbies. How'd that work out for you? The Cubs have been hyping their prospects since the 1950's. When I was a kid every new phenom was going to be another Ernie Banks or an all star pitcher.

TomBradley72
06-05-2012, 08:42 AM
The Cubs have been hyping their prospects since the 1950's. When I was a kid every new phenom was going to be another Ernie Banks or an all star pitcher.

Don't forget Karl Pagel, Corey Patterson, Felix Pie-

DumpJerry
06-05-2012, 09:22 AM
I think the worst Cub team ever was the 2003 team. So close, yet......

white sox bill
06-05-2012, 09:35 AM
I had to laugh out loud when I read a few comments in the Trib who wanted Castro sent down to AAA. I'm thinking, "hell hes at AAA now..."

Hitmen77
06-05-2012, 10:34 AM
...... Secondly, I have no clue as to what they are trying to do. I keep hearing on the Score that they are totally rebuilding the team and this might take 4-5 years. Bill Veeck once said "The future is now. 5 year plans usually lead to another 5 year plan". Needless to say, I wish them the worse.

Blah, blah, blah...been hearing that for ages. I remember back when they drafted Beanball Ben Christenson (sp?), they drafted Bobby Hill (Cubbie Clowns were so cocky to have drafted and SIGNED a guy the Sox drafted and couldn't sign) then they had Hee Sop Choi. All the hype was how stacked they were with prospects - nothing could stop the Cubbies. How'd that work out for you?

Yeah, like the Royals and Pirates right?

Yeah, I'm not sure why Ricketts and Epstein decided that the Cubs needed to be this bad this year in order to "rebuild". Based on their ticket sales, it's not like they're not making money and need to slash payroll.

Is their plan really to just be as bad as possible this year just to get the highest draft pick possible? I know that some #1 picks have gone on to be potential HOFers (A-Rod, Mauer, Verlander), but it doesn't always happen that way. It seems to me that a high revenue team can rebuild their farm system by putting money into scouting, international draft, etc. without letting their major league squad become laughingstocks.

Is Cubs management essentially saying "**** you fans, we know you're going to show up anyway so we're going to stop spending money on getting veteran talent to keep this team respectable until we're done rebuilding"?

I'll say this about the Cubs though, you really can't compare their "rebuilding" effort to those of teams like the Royals, Pirates, or A's. The Cubs have revenue that those other teams don't. Once they have some talent break through to the majors, they won't have to unload them or let them leave once it's arbitration or free agent time. Also, I'm guessing that they don't need to rebuild their entire lineup from scratch. Unlike those other teams, the Cubs could just develop a few of their own stars and then fill out the rest of the team with high-priced free agents. I'm not saying they're guaranteed to succeed, it's just that I don't buy the comparisons between them an small market/low revenue teams that are perpetually "rebuilding".

hawkjt
06-05-2012, 10:51 AM
I will not say that Theo and co. intentionally sabotaged this season,but they probably are somewhat glad that it is going south in such epic proportions early,so that they can easily rationalize to cubs fans the trading every single vet worth a bag of balls before the end of July.

They can be horrible,get the #1 pick next year,and start over.
It is working out perfectly...but there is the pain of the games...ouch.

TomBradley72
06-05-2012, 11:47 AM
Unless they have a much stronger farm system today than I realize- this could take a while for the Cubbies- after Rizzo, Castro and Jackson- I don't see any other young talent that they can really build around (Vitters?).

Not really any young pitchers (outside of Smarmy) to build around either- as starter or bullpen.

Even as historically bad as they are this year- they are doing it with older/high priced players like Soriano, Garza, Dempster and DeJesus-
so they really haven't even started rebuilding until they move those guys-so they will likely get even worse before they start to get better.

Their current farm system hs been ranked around 20th in most of the rankings I've seen

Foulke You
06-05-2012, 12:01 PM
Is Cubs management essentially saying "**** you fans, we know you're going to show up anyway so we're going to stop spending money on getting veteran talent to keep this team respectable until we're done rebuilding"?
I believe that is essentially what they are saying. We are going to find out just how "bulletproof" the Cubs attendance thing is in the next few years. While they still are getting big crowds this year, I believe I read that attendance is down about 10% from last year. The secondary market is over flowing with tickets from brokers and season ticket holders dumping their tickets. I know there were tickets available to the crosstown series on the day of game which in previous years was unheard of. I'm also willing to bet their TV/radio ratings are taking a hit too. The last time the Cubs strung together a long stretch of truly pathetic losing seasons:

1999- 67W-95L (finished last place)
2000- 65W-97L (finished last place)
2001- 88W-74L (finished 3rd place)
2002- 67W-95 (finished 5th place)

Other than 2001 which appeared to be a bit of a fluke, this was a truly abysmal stretch for the Cubs. Attendance didn't suffer much but back then, they had the gate attractions of Sammy Sosa and Kerry Wood to bring fans in. For the next few years, the Cubs are only going to have the ballpark to fall back on unless they strike gold with some of their much hyped prospects like Rizzo or Jackson. Will fans continue to fill Wrigley at a 2.8 million clip? My feeling is that it will likely fall to a pre-1998 level in the 2.2 to 2.5 million range if they continue to post 90+ loss seasons.

tstrike2000
06-05-2012, 12:09 PM
If you went to Wrigley today, I bet 25% of the people there would tell you the Cubs are in first place.

http://cdn0.hark.com/images/000/003/583/3583/original.jpg

Ed Rooney: "Who's winning?"

Cook: "Uh, the Bears."

Dan H
06-05-2012, 05:41 PM
We've been getting the usual Cub propaganda about how great Cubs fans like a story by George Castle and the feel good stuff about Kerry Wood. Yet there are a lot of sea gulls and no shows at Wrigley. Their attendance still will be good in comparison to other teams, but I think this bubble has burst. This rebuilding effort will be painful and even some Cub fans are getting tired of the same old losing. And if the Sox make it to the playoffs, there are going to be a lot of bitter Cub fans around here.

I agree with others say about draft picks but I've heard radio pundits tell Cub fans they can be optimistic since they will draft high. Maybe Theo will change their history of bad drafting, but if I was a Cub fan, I wouldn't find that very comforting.

The truth is that the Cubs are approaching 70 years without even appearing in a World Series. Eventually the media brain washing isn't going to help. The Cubs have to turn things around soon or all of this bad baseball will finally catch up to them. And just think - the 2012 team may not be the worst. That may yet happen.

mzh
06-05-2012, 05:59 PM
The groundbreaking of the Epstein/Hoyer Cubs team of the future may be set back a bit:

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/05/cubs-first-round-pick-almore-my-main-priority-now-is-college/

slavko
06-05-2012, 06:46 PM
The groundbreaking of the Epstein/Hoyer Cubs team of the future may be set back a bit:

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/05/cubs-first-round-pick-almore-my-main-priority-now-is-college/


Almora and Boras playing a little hardball, IMO. Betcha a lemon cookie he comes to terms for big $$$.

Lip Man 1
06-05-2012, 07:40 PM
Foulke:

Check these out:

1960- 60-94
1961- 64-90-2
1962- 59-103
1963- 82-80
1964- 76-86
1965- 72-90-2

Lip

DrCrawdad
06-05-2012, 07:46 PM
Foulke:

Check these out:

1960- 60-94
1961- 64-90-2
1962- 59-103
1963- 82-80
1964- 76-86
1965- 72-90-2

Lip

Maybe they'll surpass the 1970 White Sox: 56-106

:crossfingers:

...For the next few years, the Cubs are only going to have the ballpark to fall back on unless they strike gold with some of their much hyped prospects like Rizzo or (Brett) Jackson. Will fans continue to fill Wrigley at a 2.8 million clip? My feeling is that it will likely fall to a pre-1998 level in the 2.2 to 2.5 million range if they continue to post 90+ loss seasons.

Brett Jackson? Think all the K's of Joe Borchard and then some without the Light Tower Power.

Brett Jackson, striking out 35% of the time. Compare that to Joe Borchard at the same age, 32.7%.

Foulke You
06-08-2012, 11:15 AM
Brett Jackson? Think all the K's of Joe Borchard and then some without the Light Tower Power.

Brett Jackson, striking out 35% of the time. Compare that to Joe Borchard at the same age, 32.7%.
I didn't say he would be good.:cool: I'm just commenting based upon the feverish hype that the local media gave the kid during Spring Training. People were calling for him to break camp as a starter.

Foulke You
06-08-2012, 11:50 AM
Foulke:

Check these out:

1960- 60-94
1961- 64-90-2
1962- 59-103
1963- 82-80
1964- 76-86
1965- 72-90-2

Lip
That is some impressive losing right there. What is with the 2 ties in 1961 and 1965? Games called because of darkness?

LITTLE NELL
06-08-2012, 12:40 PM
Foulke:

Check these out:

1960- 60-94
1961- 64-90-2
1962- 59-103
1963- 82-80
1964- 76-86
1965- 72-90-2

Lip

Lip, How could you omit 1966 when they went 59-103 and were 10th in a 10 team league. In 1962 they were also 59-103 but finished 9th due to the expansion Mets who finished 10th.

SI1020
06-08-2012, 01:03 PM
From 1947-66 the Cubs had 18 losing seasons, 1 winning and 1 other at an even .500.

LITTLE NELL
06-08-2012, 01:11 PM
From 1947-66 the Cubs had 18 losing seasons, 1 winning and 1 other at an even .500.

And from 1951-1967 the Sox had 17 staight winning seasons with a trip to the World Series. We outdrew the Cubs every year except 1958 .Those were the days.

SI1020
06-08-2012, 02:20 PM
And from 1951-1967 the Sox had 17 staight winning seasons with a trip to the World Series. We outdrew the Cubs every year except 1958 .Those were the days. Yes they were. It really was a Sox town when we were young.

TDog
06-08-2012, 05:03 PM
And from 1951-1967 the Sox had 17 staight winning seasons with a trip to the World Series. We outdrew the Cubs every year except 1958 .Those were the days.

But in 1967, when the White Sox were in first place from mid-June to mid-August and finished only three games out despite losing the last five games to the two last-place teams, the Cubs averaged less than 400 fewer paid admissions per date. The Cubs began drawing better than the White Sox when school let out and became the favored team in Chicago, even though they were 10 out in mid-August and never got closer while the White Sox remained in the greatest pennant race in AL history.

And, really, it hasn't changed since.

Frater Perdurabo
06-08-2012, 05:16 PM
But in 1967, when the White Sox were in first place from mid-June to mid-August and finished only three games out despite losing the last five games to the two last-place teams, the Cubs averaged less than 400 fewer paid admissions per date. The Cubs began drawing better than the White Sox when school let out and became the favored team in Chicago, even though they were 10 out in mid-August and never got closer while the White Sox remained in the greatest pennant race in AL history.

And, really, it hasn't changed since.

This coincides with the increase in urban riots in the mid-1960s. Unfortunately, people began to perceive that the south side was dangerous, and that often erroneous public perception really hasn't changed since, either. To go any further risks Roadhousing.

Lip Man 1
06-08-2012, 06:15 PM
Frater:

Exactly correct. Even though Daley's house was four blocks from the park, plus leaving WGN for a station that you couldn't get in Chicago even if you had a new TV or bought a converter box was disasterous.

At the upcoming 72 reunion celebration that is the subject of my speech at the Stadium Club that Monday night, the significance of the 1972 White Sox and how they 'saved' the franchise....in part because of the bad decisions the Sox made in the late 60's and the events that were beyond their control.

Lip

LITTLE NELL
06-08-2012, 07:34 PM
But in 1967, when the White Sox were in first place from mid-June to mid-August and finished only three games out despite losing the last five games to the two last-place teams, the Cubs averaged less than 400 fewer paid admissions per date. The Cubs began drawing better than the White Sox when school let out and became the favored team in Chicago, even though they were 10 out in mid-August and never got closer while the White Sox remained in the greatest pennant race in AL history.

And, really, it hasn't changed since.

Beg to differ somewhat, no team dominated attendance wise in the 70s and 80s. In the 70s the Cubs outdrew us by about 200,000 a year and in the 80s it was about 300,000 a year but some years we outdrew them and others where they outdrew us. Its in the last 20 years where they have outdrawn us every year and by 18,000,000 for an average of 900,000 a year.

Great site here with all teams attendance by decade.
http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/attendance.htm

SI1020
06-08-2012, 10:48 PM
This coincides with the increase in urban riots in the mid-1960s. Unfortunately, people began to perceive that the south side was dangerous, and that often erroneous public perception really hasn't changed since, either. To go any further risks Roadhousing. I'm going to go further because I was alive then and remember the era very well. I will just preface it by saying I'm speaking historically and not in any way making a political statement. First of all, as long as I can remember, and we first started going to games in 1958, the area near old Comiskey was considered rougher than Wrigley. Yes, there were numerous urban riots across the country beginning in 1964. They happened in Chicago in August of 1965, June and July of 1966, and in Chicago and all across the nation immediately after MLK was killed. The epicenter of the riots in Chicago in all 4 events was somewhere on the westside or near north west side of the city. Despite the presence of major housing projects near the ball park, to the best of my recollection there was never any organized mayhem near the ball park the reputation of the neighborhood notwithstanding. I attended a pretty decent number of games at the old ball yard alone between 1965-68, in my teen years. I also went once with my brother at age 12, he 9 in 1963 to see a double header with the Angels. I am short and you could probably say I was a little nerdy looking back then. I was very street savvy and can honestly say I never had any kind of problem, nor did I ever witness one. I used the CTA on what is now called the Green line from Uptown, Edgewater, or Albany Park on the north side. It is also important to note that the Cubs mini renaissance in 1967 coincided with a major decline in the neighborhood around Wrigley Field. Particularly in the vicinity of LeMoyne elementary to the east of the park. In his book Stuck on the Cubs, published in 1977 Cub fan author Rick Schwab makes note of the deterioration of the neighborhood. Of course in the 80's we see the beginnings of the rooftop phenomenon, and the widespread gentrification of the "Wrigleyville" neighborhood we just called Lake View when I was a kid. It is in this decade that IMHO the Sox really began losing the PR battle to the Cubs in a big way.

PalehosePlanet
06-09-2012, 02:24 AM
Trying to figure out which Cubs team was the worst ever is kind of like trying to figure out who the worst driver in Chicago is; the pool of contestants/seasons is infinite.

DumpJerry
06-09-2012, 09:04 AM
Trying to figure out which Cubs team was the worst ever is kind of like trying to figure out who the worst driver in Chicago is; the pool of contestants/seasons is infinite.
Other than this (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/1906.shtml) team (who lost the World Series to you-know-who), have there been any great Cub teams?

gobears1987
06-09-2012, 10:41 AM
I'm going to go further because I was alive then and remember the era very well. I will just preface it by saying I'm speaking historically and not in any way making a political statement. First of all, as long as I can remember, and we first started going to games in 1958, the area near old Comiskey was considered rougher than Wrigley. Yes, there were numerous urban riots across the country beginning in 1964. They happened in Chicago in August of 1965, June and July of 1966, and in Chicago and all across the nation immediately after MLK was killed. The epicenter of the riots in Chicago in all 4 events was somewhere on the westside or near north west side of the city. Despite the presence of major housing projects near the ball park, to the best of my recollection there was never any organized mayhem near the ball park the reputation of the neighborhood notwithstanding. I attended a pretty decent number of games at the old ball yard alone between 1965-68, in my teen years. I also went once with my brother at age 12, he 9 in 1963 to see a double header with the Angels. I am short and you could probably say I was a little nerdy looking back then. I was very street savvy and can honestly say I never had any kind of problem, nor did I ever witness one. I used the CTA on what is now called the Green line from Uptown, Edgewater, or Albany Park on the north side. It is also important to note that the Cubs mini renaissance in 1967 coincided with a major decline in the neighborhood around Wrigley Field. Particularly in the vicinity of LeMoyne elementary to the east of the park. In his book Stuck on the Cubs, published in 1977 Cub fan author Rick Schwab makes note of the deterioration of the neighborhood. Of course in the 80's we see the beginnings of the rooftop phenomenon, and the widespread gentrification of the "Wrigleyville" neighborhood we just called Lake View when I was a kid. It is in this decade that IMHO the Sox really began losing the PR battle to the Cubs in a big way.

There is no coincidence for it happening in that decade.

It is that decade that a certain newspaper company purchased the losers and became their house organ.

MarySwiss
06-09-2012, 12:27 PM
I'm going to go further because I was alive then and remember the era very well. I will just preface it by saying I'm speaking historically and not in any way making a political statement. First of all, as long as I can remember, and we first started going to games in 1958, the area near old Comiskey was considered rougher than Wrigley. Yes, there were numerous urban riots across the country beginning in 1964. They happened in Chicago in August of 1965, June and July of 1966, and in Chicago and all across the nation immediately after MLK was killed. The epicenter of the riots in Chicago in all 4 events was somewhere on the westside or near north west side of the city. Despite the presence of major housing projects near the ball park, to the best of my recollection there was never any organized mayhem near the ball park the reputation of the neighborhood notwithstanding. I attended a pretty decent number of games at the old ball yard alone between 1965-68, in my teen years. I also went once with my brother at age 12, he 9 in 1963 to see a double header with the Angels. I am short and you could probably say I was a little nerdy looking back then. I was very street savvy and can honestly say I never had any kind of problem, nor did I ever witness one. I used the CTA on what is now called the Green line from Uptown, Edgewater, or Albany Park on the north side. It is also important to note that the Cubs mini renaissance in 1967 coincided with a major decline in the neighborhood around Wrigley Field. Particularly in the vicinity of LeMoyne elementary to the east of the park. In his book Stuck on the Cubs, published in 1977 Cub fan author Rick Schwab makes note of the deterioration of the neighborhood. Of course in the 80's we see the beginnings of the rooftop phenomenon, and the widespread gentrification of the "Wrigleyville" neighborhood we just called Lake View when I was a kid. It is in this decade that IMHO the Sox really began losing the PR battle to the Cubs in a big way.
Yep. My brother and I were teenagers at that time, and we went to lots of games at Comiskey, often deciding to go at the last minute. We lived in Uptown at that time and thought nothing of jumping on the El and heading down. And like you, we never had any problems or saw anyone else having problems. And don't forget, Richard J. Daley was mayor then, and he lived in Bridgeport. There were plenty of cops around, and I always felt perfectly safe there. :smile:

DumpJerry
06-09-2012, 01:44 PM
I'm going to go further because I was alive then and remember the era very well. I will just preface it by saying I'm speaking historically and not in any way making a political statement. First of all, as long as I can remember, and we first started going to games in 1958, the area near old Comiskey was considered rougher than Wrigley. Yes, there were numerous urban riots across the country beginning in 1964. They happened in Chicago in August of 1965, June and July of 1966, and in Chicago and all across the nation immediately after MLK was killed. The epicenter of the riots in Chicago in all 4 events was somewhere on the westside or near north west side of the city. Despite the presence of major housing projects near the ball park, to the best of my recollection there was never any organized mayhem near the ball park the reputation of the neighborhood notwithstanding. I attended a pretty decent number of games at the old ball yard alone between 1965-68, in my teen years. I also went once with my brother at age 12, he 9 in 1963 to see a double header with the Angels. I am short and you could probably say I was a little nerdy looking back then. I was very street savvy and can honestly say I never had any kind of problem, nor did I ever witness one. I used the CTA on what is now called the Green line from Uptown, Edgewater, or Albany Park on the north side. It is also important to note that the Cubs mini renaissance in 1967 coincided with a major decline in the neighborhood around Wrigley Field. Particularly in the vicinity of LeMoyne elementary to the east of the park. In his book Stuck on the Cubs, published in 1977 Cub fan author Rick Schwab makes note of the deterioration of the neighborhood. Of course in the 80's we see the beginnings of the rooftop phenomenon, and the widespread gentrification of the "Wrigleyville" neighborhood we just called Lake View when I was a kid. It is in this decade that IMHO the Sox really began losing the PR battle to the Cubs in a big way.
In the 1970's and early 80's I used to park on State Street just north of 35th Street all the time. Had to stop when the City built out the curbs and eliminated the parking lane. We would walk along 35th Street to the game right across the street from Stateway Gardens and there was never an incident.

In the 1980's Cub home games were no longer a baseball game, but an all-day party. That's when people started telling me that I must go there because of the party atmosphere-nary a mention of the game or team.

LITTLE NELL
06-09-2012, 03:15 PM
Yep. My brother and I were teenagers at that time, and we went to lots of games at Comiskey, often deciding to go at the last minute. We lived in Uptown at that time and thought nothing of jumping on the El and heading down. And like you, we never had any problems or saw anyone else having problems. And don't forget, Richard J. Daley was mayor then, and he lived in Bridgeport. There were plenty of cops around, and I always felt perfectly safe there. :smile:

In 1962 when I was a vendor we made the trek from the El at 35th and State many times but never with the crowd. We would have to be in the park before the gates opened and after the game we would cash out and usually left about 30 minutes after a game. Never a problem.
Many times on our ride back to the Loyola Station my buddy and I would fall asleep and the conductor would have to wake us up at the end of the line at Howard St.

DrCrawdad
06-09-2012, 03:49 PM
Other than this (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/1906.shtml) team (who lost the World Series to you-know-who), have there been any great Cub teams?

The 2008 Cubbies were the greatest team in MLB history.

ZombieRob
06-09-2012, 03:50 PM
I wonder if the Samardzij-mania will end with the Twins posting 8 on him thru 5

LITTLE NELL
06-09-2012, 04:29 PM
Other than this (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/1906.shtml) team (who lost the World Series to you-know-who), have there been any great Cub teams?

Hate to say it but they did go to the World Series 4 times from 1929 to 1938. The 1932 Series is when the Babe called the shot.

thomas35forever
06-09-2012, 04:45 PM
Man, this is just sad. How can Kasper keep his opinions in any longer?

LITTLE NELL
06-09-2012, 05:13 PM
Man, this is just sad. How can Kasper keep his opinions in any longer?

Because he doesn't want to get fired.

Golden Sox
06-09-2012, 07:59 PM
Kasper is well aware of what happened to Chip Caray and Steve Stone when they spoke openly about the Cubs.

DumpJerry
06-11-2012, 03:39 PM
In all this hooplah over the Cubs "rebuilding" so they can win the World Series in three, no five, um make that ten, years is that the other 29 teams in MLB are also working to improve themselves.

I don't think in the 100+ year history of MLB (or any other professional sport) there was a team that said at the end of the season "We're good. No need to draft anyone new or sign any free agents."

But don't tell that to Cub fans, that would be mean.

doublem23
06-11-2012, 03:45 PM
In all this hooplah over the Cubs "rebuilding" so they can win the World Series in three, no five, um make that ten, years is that the other 29 teams in MLB are also working to improve themselves.

I don't think in the 100+ year history of MLB (or any other professional sport) there was a team that said at the end of the season "We're good. No need to draft anyone new or sign any free agents."

But don't tell that to Cub fans, that would be mean.

I'm not even 100% sure what that means, wasn't like 50%+ of the Cubs' Opening Day roster a new player to the organization?

DumpJerry
06-11-2012, 03:54 PM
I'm not even 100% sure what that means, wasn't like 50%+ of the Cubs' Opening Day roster a new player to the organization?
What it means is that the fans should not kill Theo and Co. until their contracts are over and they have left town to "rebuild" the previous year's World Series champions.....

It's an interesting contrast to our fanbase. Theo says "we're rebuilding" and the fansbase think it will lead to a World Series. Kenny says "we're sort of rebuilding" and the fanbase blames him for screwing up the past few years of management. I'm not saying Kenny is or is not culpable in the current state of the team (that's a topic for a different thread), but for some reason, White Sox fans don't drink Kool Aid like the folks up north.....

DumpJerry
06-11-2012, 03:57 PM
I think there's a good chance that Garza and Dempster will be gone by July 31st and a "decent" chance Soriano will be gone by then, too. You think the current Cubs are a losing machine on any given day now, wait for August 1st when they have two more AAA guys in the rotation.......

doublem23
06-11-2012, 03:59 PM
What it means is that the fans should not kill Theo and Co. until their contracts are over and they have left town to "rebuild" the previous year's World Series champions.....

It's an interesting contrast to our fanbase. Theo says "we're rebuilding" and the fansbase think it will lead to a World Series. Kenny says "we're sort of rebuilding" and the fanbase blames him for screwing up the past few years of management. I'm not saying Kenny is or is not culpable in the current state of the team (that's a topic for a different thread), but for some reason, White Sox fans don't drink Kool Aid like the folks up north.....

What are you talking about? There's plenty of people in the Clubhouse clammoring for a Cubs-style rebuild for the Sox. The only reason no one blames Theo yet is because he's new on the job, but it's not like Cub fans weren't calling for the head of Jim Hendry for years on the North Side. KW's prints are all over the Sox roster, so whatever feelings people had about it directly relates back to KW. You might argue that the only reason the Sox had to do "a little rebuilding" this year is because KW and JR are smart enough to know that even if they gave Sox fans an exciting, 1st place team, they'd still only get 25,000 people to show up and watch them.

bestkosher
06-11-2012, 03:59 PM
We do drink the Kool Aid. Unfortuantely ours is luke warm and never tastes like it did back when we were younger. And those who run the Kool Aid stand keep telling us to make the Kool Aid better we have to drink more of it.

DumpJerry
06-11-2012, 04:05 PM
What are you talking about? There's plenty of people in the Clubhouse clammoring for a Cubs-style rebuild for the Sox. The only reason no one blames Theo yet is because he's new on the job, but it's not like Cub fans weren't calling for the head of Jim Hendry for years on the North Side. KW's prints are all over the Sox roster, so whatever feelings people had about it directly relates back to KW. You might argue that the only reason the Sox had to do "a little rebuilding" this year is because KW and JR are smart enough to know that even if they gave Sox fans an exciting, 1st place team, they'd still only get 25,000 people to show up and watch them.
The thing is, when Theo was hired, we were told it would be "three years" to make the team a contender. Then it became "five years." Now the buzz in the media is that "ten years" is more realistic. My point is that while the Cubs may be stocking up their system with good young players, the fanbase is ignoring the fact that the other teams in MLB are doing the same thing. I'm pointing out that the cheerleaders up north are acting as if the other teams will remain static over the next few years while the Cubs are on the express train of player development. Look at the Pirates today. That team could very well be the NL Central powerhouse in three years.

ZombieRob
06-11-2012, 04:13 PM
What was that guy on the Score years ago the Preacher said? We don't have to get better (The Cubs) we just have to wait till everyone gets worse.

cub killer
06-12-2012, 09:27 AM
There's good proof of that Kool-Aid drinking over at northsidebaseball.com.

When their rivals, the Cardinals, won an NL record 11th World Series title, some idiots over there were saying, "Big deal. We have Theo and they don't."

Soxman24
06-12-2012, 01:05 PM
There's good proof of that Kool-Aid drinking over at northsidebaseball.com.

When their rivals, the Cardinals, won an NL record 11th World Series title, some idiots over there were saying, "Big deal. We have Theo and they don't."


Dude didn't you get the memo? An overrated GM is WAY better than a WS Championship!

TDog
06-12-2012, 02:18 PM
Beg to differ somewhat, no team dominated attendance wise in the 70s and 80s. In the 70s the Cubs outdrew us by about 200,000 a year and in the 80s it was about 300,000 a year but some years we outdrew them and others where they outdrew us. Its in the last 20 years where they have outdrawn us every year and by 18,000,000 for an average of 900,000 a year.

Great site here with all teams attendance by decade.
http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/attendance.htm

It wasn't just a matter of attendance. The Cubs didn't draw when they lost before the 1980s, but they still drew more than the White Sox who had a few gates in the 1970s of less than 1,000. Unless the Sox were at their peak, the Cubs had a higher season-ticket base. Outside Chicagoland, where I have spent my adult life, there has always been the perception that the Cubs are the team in the city and the White Sox are the second team, not unlike the A's have become in the Bay Area. That was true before the Tribune bought the Cubs, and it is true this year, with the Cubs losing two-thirds of their games and the White Sox in first place.

There was a time when there was a theory that there was right around 2 million in attendance between the two teams, and the team that was up got the bulk of it. In 1967, both teams drew a bit less than 1 million. That would have been true if the Sox had gone to the World Series, which they would have done if they had won the last game in Chicago and swept their final road series.

Television, at least the White Sox decision to go to WFLD, had little to do with the Cubs becoming more popular, as much as people want to blame management or such things. WGN was doing fewer White Sox games and more Cubs games. WGN already did the Cubs on the radio. The White Sox were becoming the second team on WGN with few games televised and would have remained so if they hadn't gone to Channel 32. WGN, which didn't want to interrupt its nighttime lineup for White Sox baseball was showing road night Cubs games after the White Sox left.

I moved to Munster, Indiana, in 1967, which was firmly entrenched Cubs country before the Sox moved to WFLD, although it should have been otherwise based on geography.

Cangelosi CF
06-12-2012, 02:30 PM
the Cubs just sacked hitting coach Rudy Jaramillo. That World Series is just around the corner! :redneck

Lip Man 1
06-12-2012, 02:58 PM
This and that:

In fact... the Sox lost a DH in K.C. which basically cost them the 1967 pennant earlier the final week. What was unusual about that night was the Sox hadn't played for over three days before it. They won Sunday afternoon at Cleveland, was off Monday when they flew to K.C., saw the Tuesday game rained out and didn't start the make up DH until Wednesday night. They were off, made three errors in the two games and wasted decent pitching performances by Peters and Horlen.

They closed the season in Chicago against the Senators and were eliminated on Friday thanks to NBC. With the World Series on Tuesday, NBC set up their equipment at all four potential locations. They built a camera placement and constructed a wall around it next to the first base dugout. In the first inning that Friday Paul Cassanova hit a pop that Tommy McCraw couldn't get to because of the wall. On the very next pitch, Cassanova singled in the game's only run. (Typical White Sox eh?) Sox lost 1-0 and were officially eliminated. The Saturday and Sunday games meant nothing.

Also in fact, leaving WGN was a unmitigated disaster because YOU COULDN'T GET WFLD-TV in the Chicago area. The technology was new and untested. Richard Roeper wrote about those issues in his book "Sox and the City..." At best, the picture you got was snowy and blurry.

Plus (and it's amazing looking back now the Sox didn't think of this...) MOST TV's COULDN'T GET CHANNEL 32! TV's sets in those days only went to channel 14, if you wanted to get channel 32 you either had to:

1. Buy a brand new TV that could get it....in theory anyway LOL.
2. Buy a converter box to attach to your old TV.

Playing "second string" to the Cubs in the late 60's would have been better than playing first string on a station that few could get. Jack Brickhouse and Arnie Harris that previous season had a meeting with Art Allyn and Jack pleaded that the Sox stay on channel 9. He warned Allyn they were making a very big mistake. Allyn ignored Jack, who history shows, was dead right.

Lip

SI1020
06-12-2012, 03:08 PM
This and that:

In fact... the Sox lost a DH in K.C. which basically cost them the 1967 pennant earlier the final week. What was unusual about that night was the Sox hadn't played for over three days before it. They won Sunday afternoon at Cleveland, was off Monday when they flew to K.C., saw the Tuesday game rained out and didn't start the make up DH until Wednesday night. They were off, made three errors in the two games and wasted decent pitching performances by Peters and Horlen.

They closed the season in Chicago against the Senators and were eliminated on Friday thanks to NBC. With the World Series on Tuesday, NBC set up their equipment at all four potential locations. They built a camera placement and constructed a wall around it next to the first base dugout. In the first inning that Friday Paul Cassanova hit a pop that Tommy McCraw couldn't get to because of the wall. On the very next pitch, Cassanova singled in the game's only run. (Typical White Sox eh?) Sox lost 1-0 and were officially eliminated. The Saturday and Sunday games meant nothing.

Also in fact, leaving WGN was a unmitigated disaster because YOU COULDN'T GET WFLD-TV in the Chicago area. The technology was new and untested. Richard Roeper wrote about those issues in his book "Sox and the City..." At best, the picture you got was snowy and blurry.

Plus (and it's amazing looking back now the Sox didn't think of this...) MOST TV's COULDN'T GET CHANNEL 32! TV's sets in those days only went to channel 14, if you wanted to get channel 32 you either had to:

1. Buy a brand new TV that could get it....in theory anyway LOL.
2. Buy a converter box to attach to your old TV.

Playing "second string" to the Cubs in the late 60's would have been better than playing first string on a station that few could get. Jack Brickhouse and Arnie Harris that previous season had a meeting with Art Allyn and Jack pleaded that the Sox stay on channel 9. He warned Allyn they were making a very big mistake. Allyn ignored Jack, who history shows, was dead right.

Lip Thank you. Sometimes I feel like banging my head against the nearest wall.

Lip Man 1
06-12-2012, 03:12 PM
This story looks at the history of Sox TV in Chicago and goes into detail about some of the issues (issues that were repeated again with SportsVision)

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=2&id=2096

Lip

TDog
06-12-2012, 03:47 PM
...
Plus (and it's amazing looking back now the Sox didn't think of this...) MOST TV's COULDN'T GET CHANNEL 32! TV's sets in those days only went to channel 14, if you wanted to get channel 32 you either had to:

1. Buy a brand new TV that could get it....in theory anyway LOL.
2. Buy a converter box to attach to your old TV.

Playing "second string" to the Cubs in the late 60's would have been better than playing first string on a station that few could get. Jack Brickhouse and Arnie Harris that previous season had a meeting with Art Allyn and Jack pleaded that the Sox stay on channel 9. He warned Allyn they were making a very big mistake. Allyn ignored Jack, who history shows, was dead right.

Lip

Had the White Sox stayed on WGN, no one would have seen them because the WGN wouldn't have done few of their games. There was only one VHF television station in Chicago that was going to do local baseball, and they had no interest in doing the White Sox. If they had television rights for the White Sox, and had more interest in the Cubs, they would have the power to keep the White Sox off TV.

It may have been a mistake for the White Sox to leave WGN, but it would have been a mistake not to. The point, really, is moot. The White Sox were screwed either way. And actually, the Reinsdorf regime put the White Sox back on WGN in the 1980s, which broadcast more games in those couple of years than WGN would have in the late 1960s, certainly more in prime time.

Moving from WGN was at least as much a cause of the Cubs' rise in popularity as the reason for the White Sox becoming less popular.

But I got WFLD. Everyone I knew got WFLD. There were many people converting to color television sets in the late '60s who got WFLD (that was going on then as people in recent years have been converting to HDTV). I saw a lot more White Sox baseball thanks to WFLD than I would have if they had stayed on WGN.

FielderJones
06-12-2012, 05:17 PM
But I got WFLD. Everyone I knew got WFLD. There were many people converting to color television sets in the late '60s who got WFLD (that was going on then as people in recent years have been converting to HDTV). I saw a lot more White Sox baseball thanks to WFLD than I would have if they had stayed on WGN.

Yeah, this "no access to UHF" doesn't quite ring true. My grandfather used to watch Bob Lewandowski on channel 26, and he died in 1965. According to this article (http://chicagotelevision.com/menofuhf.htm), UHF became a mandatory standard feature in 1964.

Granted, the first UHF tuners were crap, and it took some talent to get a UHF station tuned just right. But after 1966 the tuners on new TVs locked on to each UHF station discretely.

DumpJerry
06-12-2012, 06:32 PM
We never had trouble getting 32 or 44. You just had to adjust the loop antenna correctly and hit the spot with the dial.

Golden Sox
06-12-2012, 06:32 PM
The Bad Guys from the Northside play the Tigers 3 times this week. As much as it hurts me rooting for the Bad Guys on the Northside, they would help us by beating the Tigers. Hope I'm wrong, but I can't see the Tigers losing any of these 3 games to the Bad Guys.

kittle42
06-12-2012, 06:45 PM
The Bad Guys from the Northside play the Tigers 3 times this week. As much as it hurts me rooting for the Bad Guys on the Northside, they would help us by beating the Tigers. Hope I'm wrong, but I can't see the Tigers losing any of these 3 games to the Bad Guys.

For three days, it's sadly Go, Cubs, Go.

Lip Man 1
06-12-2012, 06:52 PM
Fielder:

Assuming you had a newer TV in the first place. It was mandatory by the FCC but if you didn't have a set with a dial that actually got UHF channels you were screwed.

In my neighborhood (Back of the Yards) there were Sox fans everywhere but very few of them were going to spring for a new TV.

Reception was awful when the Sox first went over and it didn't get better until the early 70's.

Lip

TDog
06-12-2012, 07:13 PM
For three days, it's sadly Go, Cubs, Go.

It wasn't Go, Cubs, Go for you the three days they were playing the Twins?

russ99
06-12-2012, 07:27 PM
Fielder:

Assuming you had a newer TV in the first place. It was mandatory by the FCC but if you didn't have a set with a dial that actually got UHF channels you were screwed.

In my neighborhood (Back of the Yards) there were Sox fans everywhere but very few of them were going to spring for a new TV.

Reception was awful when the Sox first went over and it didn't get better until the early 70's.

Lip

Wasn't there a broadcast range issue with UHF then too?

By the time I was watching games with regularity, the Sox and Harry were on Ch.44 and the UHF reception issues were lessened. But there were times I had to wiggle the dial.

DumpJerry
06-12-2012, 09:20 PM
For three days, it's sadly Go, Cubs, Go.
I would post they will do the same for us over the next three days, but that won't change the big picture for them.

kba
06-12-2012, 10:29 PM
This and that:
Also in fact, leaving WGN was a unmitigated disaster because YOU COULDN'T GET WFLD-TV in the Chicago area. The technology was new and untested. Richard Roeper wrote about those issues in his book "Sox and the City..." At best, the picture you got was snowy and blurry.


The WFLD move was a disaster in a lot of ways, but the Sox did it because the station paid the then-unheard-of amount of million dollars a year for the rights to the telecasts. In a 1971 Tribune article, Sox GM Stu Holcomb said the WFLD money was the only thing keeping the Sox franchise afloat and keeping John Allyn from moving the team.

The same article quoted announcer Jack Drees saying that even if WFLD sold out all the advertising time on the telecasts, the station would still lose $600,000 to $700,000 a year. While the Cubs ratings on WGN were in the mid-teens, the Sox were getting 2's and 3's on WFLD.

FielderJones
06-12-2012, 11:41 PM
In my neighborhood (Back of the Yards) there were Sox fans everywhere but very few of them were going to spring for a new TV.

My gramps was Back of the Yards too, not exactly rolling in dough as he had been a laborer in the Stockyards. Some of my single uncles who still lived at home popped for the TV.

Were there really that many B&W Philcos with only VHF still left by 1968?

Lip Man 1
06-12-2012, 11:56 PM
Fielder:

Yes there was. Folks who bought sets in 64-65 weren't going to suddenly dump them just to see the Sox.

Seriously I don't think I'm exaggerating the issue, although granted 45 years ago is a long time. But Rich Lindberg the Sox historian has written the same thing in his books and as I said, Richard Roeper devoted a chapter to it in his book.

KBA:

Valid point. Although I'd say Art Allyn (who owner the team then, not John) was still being shortsighted. He had to know (unless someone sold him a bill of goods, which is possible) that reception was going to be poor and you didn't have the same number of sets that could even get the channel. I can't fault him heavily for taking the money (although the Sox weren't losing money through 68) but in retrospect it was a disasterous decision.

I'd argue (and its going to be a part of my speech in a few weeks at the Allen celebration), that it was the money the Sox made because of the 72 season AND the resulting new AM radio contract with WMAQ for 1973 that kept them from moving. John Allyn had just enough money to survive when his other business interests went belly-up and he nearly went bankrupt. He hung on long enough to sell to Veeck instead of doing what the league wanted and move the Sox to Seattle.

By the way you wouldn't happen to have a link to the story with Jack Drees would you?

Lip

Noneck
06-13-2012, 12:31 AM
Were there really that many B&W Philcos with only VHF still left by 1968?


Yes there were, just about everyone in my family didnt have uhf TV's. Also the outside antennas had to be changed because a different type of antenna was needed to to get uhf.

LITTLE NELL
06-13-2012, 08:46 AM
Yes there were, just about everyone in my family didnt have uhf TV's. Also the outside antennas had to be changed because a different type of antenna was needed to to get uhf.

We had to be one of the first families in our neighborhood to have UHF, my Dad was a electronics nut and always was up on the latest technology, IIRC it was summer of 64 or 65 when we got the UHF. I can't remember what shows were on but when I was discharged from the USAF in 1969 all the Sox games came in very clear and there were never any ghosts like you would get on VHF.

kba
06-13-2012, 09:40 AM
Fielder:

By the way you wouldn't happen to have a link to the story with Jack Drees would you?

Lip

Behind a paywall here (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/chicagotribune/access/633595642.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:AI&type=historic&date=Jun+25%2C+1971&author=Robert+Markus&pub=Chicago+Tribune+%281963-Current+file%29&edition=&startpage=C1&desc=Sox+Are+Hurting+Despite+Streak). If you have access to ProQuest, you can search the Tribune archives free.

FielderJones
06-13-2012, 11:03 AM
We had to be one of the first families in our neighborhood to have UHF, my Dad was a electronics nut and always was up on the latest technology, IIRC it was summer of 64 or 65 when we got the UHF.

Same here. My Dad had an amateur radio license as a kid, was a radio tech in the Navy and for UAL at Midway, so we had UHF in 1964. I remember him watching the stock ticker on Channel 26. There was never a time when I couldn't watch the Sox.