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Lip Man 1
05-17-2012, 08:15 PM
http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/7935598/chicago-cubs-chicago-white-sox-face-different-challenges-selling-tickets

Lip

DumpJerry
05-17-2012, 08:21 PM
This dovetails into the phone call I got the other day from my sales rep. She asked how things were going, etc. When I mentioned that Is had some on StubHub, she zeroed in on that and asked me how my experience was this year (did I have trouble moving tickets on StubHub? and so forth).

This is the first time in seven years of being a STH I have gotten a phone call from my rep to see "how things are going."

balke
05-17-2012, 08:22 PM
Fan favorite/sox legend is gone (Buehrle). Worst player in baseball last year is the reason (Dunn). Team became embarrassment between Ozzie and Kenny and now Robin is apparently conflicting with Coop.

It's just not exciting. Maybe if Viciedo or Beckham takes off offensively to get people excited. I'm mainly waiting for the roster to roll over so I can forget some of these guys. Even if they were in first right now... our best players feel kinda like borrowed pieces to me.

BigKlu59
05-17-2012, 08:29 PM
I'm lost in a time warp... People actually spend this kind of quid to sit in the bleachers at the "Friendly Confines" these days ? As far as not spinning the turnstyles at "The Cell" that 3,000 odd drop can turn around with a couple of series wins and a run. Sure, 1/2 price night, a MONDAY nite. How about tossing in a couple of Fri Night or Wed night throughout the schedule and things would perk up. Whats the old saying... Win and the attendance will take care of itself. The Cell is a Ball Park, not an outdoor Tavern.

BK59

dickallen15
05-17-2012, 09:17 PM
This dovetails into the phone call I got the other day from my sales rep. She asked how things were going, etc. When I mentioned that Is had some on StubHub, she zeroed in on that and asked me how my experience was this year (did I have trouble moving tickets on StubHub? and so forth).

This is the first time in seven years of being a STH I have gotten a phone call from my rep to see "how things are going."


Before 2005, I would get 2 or 3 calls a year. Then zero until last season.

With dynamic pricing, does anyone know if the prices you see at Ticketmaster for a day of game ticket, which are ridiculously priced, especially when you see the sea of green, the same as the box office, or is the box office a more uniformed price?

chisoxfanatic
05-17-2012, 09:33 PM
This dovetails into the phone call I got the other day from my sales rep. She asked how things were going, etc. When I mentioned that Is had some on StubHub, she zeroed in on that and asked me how my experience was this year (did I have trouble moving tickets on StubHub? and so forth).

This is the first time in seven years of being a STH I have gotten a phone call from my rep to see "how things are going."
I haven't had a season ticket plan for three years, and the Sox have contacted me each year since to see if I wanted to "come back." They have been pretty persistent, and have also offered to give me "specialized payment plan" options if money were the issue. I told them that I'd rather choose which games I go to instead of being tied down to games they give me. I still consider myself fortunate that I had season tickets for 5 years, yet I never ate a single ticket!

Brian26
05-17-2012, 10:22 PM
I told them that I'd rather choose which games I go to instead of being tied down to games they give me.

:scratch: There are several ticket plans that allow you to pick the games you want to go to.

kittle42
05-17-2012, 10:38 PM
:scratch: There are several ticket plans that allow you to pick the games you want to go to.

Perhaps she means she'd rather choose on the fly than having to be tied to preseason choices?

DumpJerry
05-17-2012, 10:46 PM
Perhaps she means she'd rather choose on the fly than having to be tied to preseason choices?
These days, the cache of having tickets to a popular game is gone. You can pretty much pick any game of the 81 and rarely pay above face. Last year, Elvis Night was not even close to a full house.

34rancher
05-17-2012, 11:01 PM
If Brooks is reading this...

For me, I stopped paying to go to the games for 4 reasons:
#1. Pissed off about the "premium" games idea. It's the major leagues, respect that.
#2. Costs. Parking is ridiculous, tickets are expensive.
#3. Dynamic pricing. BS pricing. Hate it with airlines, hate it even more with baseball. Feeling like I am being taken advantage of just alienates me and makes me feel like the sox are treating fans like cubs do. Like they just don't care.
#4. Time. The world is a crazy place now that demands too much of my time. So rather than go to a game where I would normally enjoy, I just don't want to feel the way I do about dynamic and premium pricing. Not worth my futilities.

kevingrt
05-17-2012, 11:27 PM
I like stealing ticket codes off other sites and using them. Then every game becomes half price game.

And mods I am sorry if this is frowned upon but it is fairly easy to do. And if price point is the problem with you for going to games just google search coupons and you will find a TON of good deals on Sox games. Hell, check on StubHub 2-7 days beforehand and you'll find more great deals

doublem23
05-18-2012, 12:06 AM
These days, the cache of having tickets to a popular game is gone. You can pretty much pick any game of the 81 and rarely pay above face. Last year, Elvis Night was not even close to a full house.

Pretty much, not to mention this "Dynamic Pricing" bull**** is the most insulting thing ever. Oh great, the prices only go up! And we have 19,000 people in the park! What a brilliant idea. And then Brooks has the gall to go on the radio and be all like, "bla bla bla Whitesox.com is the only safe place to get your Sox tickets, <under his breath> you ****ing morons," and then I go to the game and I see ads for StubHub as an official partner of the White Sox. I mean, when was the last time anyone got ripped off on StubHub? 2007? GMAB.

I've been to 3 games already, have tickets for 3 games already purchased. All via StubHub. Haven't even come close to paying 50% of the face value yet, and that's even with the ludicrous amount of admin fees StubHub charges (HOW DOES IT COST $10 FOR YOU TO SEND ME AN AUTOMATED EMAIL???? Is Stephen King personally writing each one?)

doublem23
05-18-2012, 12:09 AM
I like stealing ticket codes off other sites and using them. Then every game becomes half price game.

And mods I am sorry if this is frowned upon but it is fairly easy to do. And if price point is the problem with you for going to games just google search coupons and you will find a TON of good deals on Sox games. Hell, check on StubHub 2-7 days beforehand and you'll find more great deals

As long as you don't post the codes here, you're fine. Yes, we all know the codes are pretty easy to find, but if the Sox wanted to make them public they would.

Don't worry about StubHub, they're an official partner of Major League Baseball. You're free to openly talk about them.

kittle42
05-18-2012, 12:18 AM
I'll go as far as to say that if you buy a full-price ticket via the Sox for any game this season, you are possibly insane.

doublem23
05-18-2012, 12:22 AM
I'll go as far as to say that if you buy a full-price ticket via the Sox for any game this season, you are possibly insane.

You definitely should at least see if you can deduct a portion of your total price as a "charitable contribution" on your federal tax return next year

DSpivack
05-18-2012, 12:43 AM
Pretty much, not to mention this "Dynamic Pricing" bull**** is the most insulting thing ever. Oh great, the prices only go up! And we have 19,000 people in the park! What a brilliant idea. And then Brooks has the gall to go on the radio and be all like, "bla bla bla Whitesox.com is the only safe place to get your Sox tickets, <under his breath> you ****ing morons," and then I go to the game and I see ads for StubHub as an official partner of the White Sox. I mean, when was the last time anyone got ripped off on StubHub? 2007? GMAB.

I've been to 3 games already, have tickets for 3 games already purchased. All via StubHub. Haven't even come close to paying 50% of the face value yet, and that's even with the ludicrous amount of admin fees StubHub charges (HOW DOES IT COST $10 FOR YOU TO SEND ME AN AUTOMATED EMAIL???? Is Stephen King personally writing each one?)

At least the White Sox aren't unique in doing that, that's across baseball as a whole, at least from what I understand.

What I don't understand about the White Sox is that their face value tickets are so expensive. Many other teams with similar middle-of-the-road attendance figures offer much more affordable ticket options than do the White Sox. As stub hub is already a ticket partner with MLB, I assume the White Sox and MLB get a small cut of those tickets. Instead of allowing them to be sold at below face value in the secondary market, why not lower the prices for those seats going unsold as it is?

amsteel
05-18-2012, 12:56 AM
People like seeing a winner, but I really think the decline in attendance is due in large part to prices. Minimum 40$ (thru the team, no discount code) to sit lower tank for a weeknight game against the Twins? Plus 25$ to park? Yeah, that's gonna drive down business.

The last 3 years I've paid face for Opening Day and nothing more than 1/2 face for the 50+ games I've been to. With 80% of those games coming off of Stubhub. Plus if you know the neighborhood/take public trans you can get around the parking costs. Anyone buying a seat thru the Sox at full price is getting grossly ripped off.

I love the Sox, but I can get a better deal for their product by circumventing them.

Parrothead
05-18-2012, 08:00 AM
I like stealing ticket codes off other sites and using them. Then every game becomes half price game.

And mods I am sorry if this is frowned upon but it is fairly easy to do. And if price point is the problem with you for going to games just google search coupons and you will find a TON of good deals on Sox games. Hell, check on StubHub 2-7 days beforehand and you'll find more great deals

What sites ? Give me a hint or shoot me a message. Please.

comiskey2000
05-18-2012, 08:41 AM
People like seeing a winner, but I really think the decline in attendance is due in large part to prices. Minimum 40$ (thru the team, no discount code) to sit lower tank for a weeknight game against the Twins? Plus 25$ to park? Yeah, that's gonna drive down business.

The last 3 years I've paid face for Opening Day and nothing more than 1/2 face for the 50+ games I've been to. With 80% of those games coming off of Stubhub. Plus if you know the neighborhood/take public trans you can get around the parking costs. Anyone buying a seat thru the Sox at full price is getting grossly ripped off.

I love the Sox, but I can get a better deal for their product by circumventing them.

This is exactly how I feel. That is why I do not feel bad about not going to games of my favorite team. It costs too much money for me. No problem, I will watch for $0 on my couch.

Noneck
05-18-2012, 08:57 AM
No problem, I will watch for $0 on my couch.

I think thats a misconception. Anyone that watches games on non broadcast tv is indeed paying to support the team. We saw what teams like the rangers and angels received for their broadcast contracts. It has also been reported that comcast pays the Sox 500k for each game. Attendance is important but teams still do well even when attendance goes down and tv revenue increases.

TomBradley72
05-18-2012, 09:18 AM
We've been a .500 team over the past 5+ seasons- with one (brief) post season appearance in that span- on top of that the management has coummunicated a muddled "rebuilding" message while not really having anything in the minor league system that would indicate any reason for optimism on that strategy (just look at our AAA/AA rosters/stats).

The whole organization still enjoys a halo effect from 2005- otherwise the last 5 years looks alot like 1998-2003.

All the marketing in the world won't attract White Sox fans with that outlook- on top of that- I think their "dynamic pricing" strategy is backfiring- Sox used to get nice walk up sales when there was nice weather before Memorial Day- not anymore.

chisox12
05-18-2012, 09:32 AM
People like seeing a winner, but I really think the decline in attendance is due in large part to prices. Minimum 40$ (thru the team, no discount code) to sit lower tank for a weeknight game against the Twins? Plus 25$ to park? Yeah, that's gonna drive down business.

The last 3 years I've paid face for Opening Day and nothing more than 1/2 face for the 50+ games I've been to. With 80% of those games coming off of Stubhub. Plus if you know the neighborhood/take public trans you can get around the parking costs. Anyone buying a seat thru the Sox at full price is getting grossly ripped off.

I love the Sox, but I can get a better deal for their product by circumventing them.


A winning team will definitely draw more, but you make a great point with the prices. With the decline in attendance the past few years, the face value prices are pretty insane. Add on the ridiculous parking fee and it turns into a very expensive night.

For me, I'll go the stubhub/craigslist route and take the el to the game.

chisoxfanatic
05-18-2012, 09:39 AM
A winning team will definitely draw more, but you make a great point with the prices. With the decline in attendance the past few years, the face value prices are pretty insane. Add on the ridiculous parking fee and it turns into a very expensive night.

For me, I'll go the stubhub/craigslist route and take the el to the game.
They are, and I'm shocked that they've increased prices with a steady decline in production! That's not a good business model to follow.

soxgirl617
05-18-2012, 10:11 AM
On the off-chance Brooks is reading this, from a 20-year plus season ticket holder: PLEASE dump the dynamic pricing! It is hurting those of us who shell out money, every year, well before the season, and provide some of the "bottom line" support for the organization.

(Yes, I know they likely won't dump stupid dynamic pricing, but I can dream!)

DumpJerry
05-18-2012, 10:25 AM
They are, and I'm shocked that they've increased prices with a steady decline in production! That's not a good business model to follow.
Prices went down this year.

ChicagoG19
05-18-2012, 10:36 AM
Brooks mentions in the article that prices aren't the problem because they didn't draw well on half-price Monday against the Tigers. Do you think it could be because prices vary so wildly and that even at half prices, the Sox tickets are more expensive than a lot of teams' full prices.

kittle42
05-18-2012, 10:55 AM
Brooks mentions in the article that prices aren't the problem because they didn't draw well on half-price Monday against the Tigers. Do you think it could be because prices vary so wildly and that even at half prices, the Sox tickets are more expensive than a lot of teams' full prices.

I think it's because the Sox suck. The past 30 years have shown fans only show when they're winning, and even then maybe not.

Hitmen77
05-18-2012, 11:22 AM
People like seeing a winner, but I really think the decline in attendance is due in large part to prices. Minimum 40$ (thru the team, no discount code) to sit lower tank for a weeknight game against the Twins? Plus 25$ to park? Yeah, that's gonna drive down business.

At the risk of being accused of being a "typical Sox fan" who likes to "find excuses to not support the team", I agree with this. To take a family of 4 to a ballgame plus parking costs something like $200....and that's before you spend money on food and drinks.

It's not an excuse, it's a reality for most fans. The Cubs are just as expensive, but they have a much larger fan base plus tourists to draw from.


We've been a .500 team over the past 5+ seasons- with one (brief) post season appearance in that span- on top of that the management has coummunicated a muddled "rebuilding" message while not really having anything in the minor league system that would indicate any reason for optimism on that strategy (just look at our AAA/AA rosters/stats).

The whole organization still enjoys a halo effect from 2005- otherwise the last 5 years looks alot like 1998-2003.


I think it's because the Sox suck. The past 30 years have shown fans only show when they're winning, and even then maybe not.

Yep, I think their record since July 2006 is below .500. This is really the first time in about 25 years that I can think of a Sox team that is mediocre at best plus does not have any exciting prospects to look forward to. At least when the Sox were bad in the late 90s, they had Konerko, Magglio, Carlos Lee, etc on the rise. In 1989, they were in last place but anyone who halfway followed them knew they had a bunch of young talent ready to explode on the scene. I think I have to go back to maybe 1986 or '87 as the last time a Sox team was so mediocre plus had nothing much in the way of young players to look forward to developing into stars.

After 2005, the Sox were flush with revenue and had a golden opportunity to pour that into the organization to try to fill it with talent from top to bottom. Instead, they went for broke with players like Dunn and Rios, hoped to build a winner through under-the-radar and scrap heap acquisitions, and meanwhile kept cranking out players like Josh Fields, Brian Anderson, and Brent Morel. Meanwhile, Ozzie and Kenny feuded while Ozzie lashed out at the fans and the Sox sputtered out the gate and down the stretch year after year.

Now, they're stuck with a bunch of bad contracts, there's not much talent in the organization, and support has fizzled back to pre-2005 levels.....and we're back to the old "we won't have money to spend on this team since attendance is declining". Ugh.

If Sox management is at all surprised at where they are right now ticket sales-wise, they're really out of touch with reality.

voodoochile
05-18-2012, 11:34 AM
On the off-chance Brooks is reading this, from a 20-year plus season ticket holder: PLEASE dump the dynamic pricing! It is hurting those of us who shell out money, every year, well before the season, and provide some of the "bottom line" support for the organization.

(Yes, I know they likely won't dump stupid dynamic pricing, but I can dream!)Actually, dumping dynamic ticket pricing for season ticket holders would be a good way of attracting more season ticket holders.

KMcMahon817
05-18-2012, 11:35 AM
If Brooks is reading this...

#2. Costs. Parking is ridiculous, tickets are expensive.


I actually think this is a huge factor.

amsteel
05-18-2012, 11:39 AM
I actually think this is a huge factor.

Easily. Parking makes a half price ticket a full price ticket.

Steelrod
05-18-2012, 11:39 AM
They may not be crazy about Stubhub or the secondary market, but I'll tell you one thing. If the time comes that I cannot sell my tickets at a fair price, I will cancel the season tickets that I have had for over 25 years. Stubhub is an asset, not a liability to ticketholders.

Jerko
05-18-2012, 12:10 PM
They may not be crazy about Stubhub or the secondary market, but I'll tell you one thing. If the time comes that I cannot sell my tickets at a fair price, I will cancel the season tickets that I have had for over 25 years. Stubhub is an asset, not a liability to ticketholders.

One of my friends is selling his unused tickets like hotcakes, while another can't give them away, and they only sit 2 sections apart in the 100 level. I guess a guy in the "difficult" section is putting all of his seats up for like 10 bucks.

Lip Man 1
05-18-2012, 12:51 PM
This and that:

To Kittle's point, it's actually been longer than 30 years. The bottom line mentality for most Sox fans is, "win or else..." and I don't have any problems with that.

In fairness though the attendance issues in the mid 60's even though the Sox kept winning and were involved in the 67 race down to the last week was because of social issues outside the control of the organization.

The race riots simply gave the perception to many Chicagoans that Comiskey Park was an unsafe place and they stayed away in droves. That perception was wrong but perception becomes reality.

Leaving WGN for the 'new' WFLD-TV and the inability of most Chicago fans to even get that channel on their older TV's was a disaster and falls completely on Art Allyn and the organization though.

And like Dan and I touched upon, if you want consistent attendance, win consistently.

The Sox remain the only franchise out of the original 16 pre-expansion teams in MLB to have never made back to back postseason appearances.

Lip

WhiffleBall
05-18-2012, 12:52 PM
If the Sox continue on with these poor seasons then the only season tickets holder left will be premium lower boxes, premium club level, and the first few rows down the line and outfield. The rest of the ballpark will be wide open which would actually be back to the norm. In 2005 we had partial season tickets and our rep offered to upgrade us to full season tix with full post season rights in row 3 or 4 in section 117 after the all star break. We waited until the post season began to upgrade to full season and the best we could do was section 102 row 5 with UD tix for the World Series. A few weeks later there would be a waiting list to get season tickets! So not only do the Sox have to consistently win, they have to make it deep into the previous postseason to keep those seats full during the following regular season.

I would recommend that they make all the upper deck reserved seats past the bases $10 for most games, $25 for opener/cubs-sox, and a special $600 full season ticket plan. You will get fans in the ballpark spending money on overpriced concessions and ridiculous parking to make up for the low ticket cost.

comiskey2000
05-18-2012, 12:56 PM
Take for example Saturday, June 9th vs the Astros (not that attractive of a matchup). Two tickets on Ticketmaster in section 148 (down the LF line) total $108 after all the fees. Add $23 to park since we are coming from the burbs, and $10 for gas, you are at $141 without any food/drink. It is certainly their right to price their product at what they want to, but $141 is not worth it for me, for two people. Yes, it is the price that is keeping me away.

Wedema
05-18-2012, 01:02 PM
One of my friends is selling his unused tickets like hotcakes, while another can't give them away, and they only sit 2 sections apart in the 100 level. I guess a guy in the "difficult" section is putting all of his seats up for like 10 bucks.


Besides for the Boston series when it was freezing and rainy outside, I have had no problem selling my unused tickets for around face value.

tstrike2000
05-18-2012, 01:12 PM
I actually think this is a huge factor.

Last month when I parked in Lot D, I came back to find my car damaged on passenger's side. I can get my car damaged for free somewhere else. That has nothing to do with Sox pricing, just a bad coincidence.

fram40
05-18-2012, 02:19 PM
The complaints about the prices sometimes seem unfair. I have a 7 game plan this year - actually chose 2 tickets each to 10 games. Opening Day was probably the only premium game - and no 1/2 price nights were selected. I paid full price (insane, right?) 538.00 bucks total for the twenty tickets - including the hated Ticketmaster fee. 27.00 bucks per ticket. We park free on the street. Seats are upper deck behind home plate. Closer to the cheapest seats, much closer, than to the most expensive

Although I realize that is still more than 100 bucks for the stereotypical family of four who wouldn't park on the street and probably can't get away without buying food and drinks for the kids. So probably closer to 200 bucks for the family.

But for my friend and I - both middle-aged men, a pretty reasonable price.

I could talk about this attendance issue for years. I despise the current ownership team - always have, from day 1 - and only recently relented and started going to more than 2 games a season. I had been an Ozzie plan fan since 2005 - until this year when we downgraded. Altho I will likely still go to about 15 games total.

I enjoy going to the games - even if they suck, even if they lose, even if it rains. I have a good time.

LITTLE NELL
05-18-2012, 02:55 PM
This Stub Hub is all new stuff to me, I bought Tampa Bay Lightning tickets in Nov for about half price for a game that was sold out.
We are going to see the Sox in St Pete on May 30 and just bought upper deck box seats at the Trop for 9 bucks each plus the sevice charges and instant download for a total of 28 bucks for 2 tickets, its 10 bucks to park so I guess thats pretty good.

russ99
05-18-2012, 04:06 PM
The complaints about the prices sometimes seem unfair. I have a 7 game plan this year - actually chose 2 tickets each to 10 games. Opening Day was probably the only premium game - and no 1/2 price nights were selected. I paid full price (insane, right?) 538.00 bucks total for the twenty tickets - including the hated Ticketmaster fee. 27.00 bucks per ticket. We park free on the street. Seats are upper deck behind home plate. Closer to the cheapest seats, much closer, than to the most expensive

Although I realize that is still more than 100 bucks for the stereotypical family of four who wouldn't park on the street and probably can't get away without buying food and drinks for the kids. So probably closer to 200 bucks for the family.

But for my friend and I - both middle-aged men, a pretty reasonable price.

I could talk about this attendance issue for years. I despise the current ownership team - always have, from day 1 - and only recently relented and started going to more than 2 games a season. I had been an Ozzie plan fan since 2005 - until this year when we downgraded. Altho I will likely still go to about 15 games total.

I enjoy going to the games - even if they suck, even if they lose, even if it rains. I have a good time.

I'm the same but I ditched the Ozzie plan in 2007 since you can generally get better seats via single game that from Ticketmaster's idea of "best available" farce.

I used to go to 10-15 games a year, this year I got tickets to 5 games in advance and will use StubHub a few times.

The Sox really need to work on this, since especially in Summer they get a pretty big gate via walk-up and all that money is going to the secondary market.

I did get a dynamic pricing e-mail for cheaper tickets the day of a game, they may need to resort to this more often to get tickets sold.

sachin
05-18-2012, 05:12 PM
So far I've made it to 2 games and have averaged $10/per ticket. I catch Metra down, have a few pops on the train, a few more in the parking lot and then see if anyone is looking to get rid of an extra, then sit where I want.

Inside, I'll have a dog and a churro (maybe). Total cost for me for the evening is around $30.

TDog
05-18-2012, 07:22 PM
On the Giants flagship station this morning while I was out working, the announcers were talking about attendance (100-something straight sellouts) and saying the person who thought up dynamic pricing (it was being done by the Giants before other teams I believe) was a genius. Callers called in to agree.

doublem23
05-18-2012, 07:31 PM
On the Giants flagship station this morning while I was out working, the announcers were talking about attendance (100-something straight sellouts) and saying the person who thought up dynamic pricing (it was being done by the Giants before other teams I believe) was a genius. Callers called in to agree.

Do the Giants offer true dynamic pricing where the price falls for undersold games or do they do White Sox style pricing where they keep jacking the price up despite having sold less than 50% of the seats? Because I agree the former is genius while the latter is bull****.

Wedema
05-18-2012, 07:37 PM
So far I've made it to 2 games and have averaged $10/per ticket. I catch Metra down, have a few pops on the train, a few more in the parking lot and then see if anyone is looking to get rid of an extra, then sit where I want.

Inside, I'll have a dog and a churro (maybe). Total cost for me for the evening is around $30.


I agree, there are ways to go to games and not spend a lot of money there. I park for free on the street, sign up for the designated driver to get free sodas, bring in some snacks (peanuts, chips, etc.) and buy a Vienna dog with grilled onions to eat.

TDog
05-18-2012, 07:43 PM
Do the Giants offer true dynamic pricing where the price falls for undersold games or do they do White Sox style pricing where they keep jacking the price up despite having sold less than 50% of the seats? Because I agree the former is genius while the latter is bull****.

I don't know. The problem may be that White Sox fans as a group really aren't really into attending games so charging less for some and more than others doesn't work.

Wedema
05-18-2012, 08:02 PM
This and that:

To Kittle's point, it's actually been longer than 30 years. The bottom line mentality for most Sox fans is, "win or else..." and I don't have any problems with that.

In fairness though the attendance issues in the mid 60's even though the Sox kept winning and were involved in the 67 race down to the last week was because of social issues outside the control of the organization.

The race riots simply gave the perception to many Chicagoans that Comiskey Park was an unsafe place and they stayed away in droves. That perception was wrong but perception becomes reality.

Leaving WGN for the 'new' WFLD-TV and the inability of most Chicago fans to even get that channel on their older TV's was a disaster and falls completely on Art Allyn and the organization though.

And like Dan and I touched upon, if you want consistent attendance, win consistently.

The Sox remain the only franchise out of the original 16 pre-expansion teams in MLB to have never made back to back postseason appearances.

Lip

Today's attendance has nothing to do with 1967, race riots, WFLD or Art Allyn. History is great but most Sox fans today probably have no clue what you are talking about here. The attendance was there in 2006 (and 2007) after the World Series win.

doublem23
05-18-2012, 08:24 PM
I don't know. The problem may be that White Sox fans as a group really aren't really into attending games so charging less for some and more than others doesn't work.

Actually if you bothered to read the thread and not post your self-righteous, judgmental bull****, you'd notice price is a huge concern for a lot of people.

Have you ever noticed how 1/2 Price Mondays are always big hit?

Lip Man 1
05-18-2012, 08:56 PM
Wedema:

Allow me to explain. Kittle said Sox fans attitude has been "win or else" for 30 years...simply saying that attitude has prevailed a lot longer than that and clarified the issue in the mid 60's (that it wasn't totally the Sox fault)

I have no idea what you are bothered about.

And just my opinion but maybe Sox fans today SHOULD know more about their own history, it would help explain a lot of things.

Sox attendance was also there in 1972, 1977 and 1983-84. The problem is they could never sustain it and one of the main reasons is as Dan and I have posted, they don't consistently win.

Lip

Wedema
05-18-2012, 09:06 PM
Wedema:

Allow me to explain. Kittle said Sox fans attitude has been "win or else" for 30 years...simply saying that attitude has prevailed a lot longer than that and clarified the issue in the mid 60's (that it wasn't totally the Sox fault)

I have no idea what you are bothered about.

And just my opinion but maybe Sox fans today SHOULD know more about their own history, it would help explain a lot of things.

Lip

Not really bothered but in my opinion, in this day and age of win now or else, the history of the team has nothing to do with attendance today.

TDog
05-18-2012, 09:18 PM
Actually if you bothered to read the thread and not post your self-righteous, judgmental bull****, you'd notice price is a huge concern for a lot of people.

Have you ever noticed how 1/2 Price Mondays are always big hit?

There was nothing self-righteous or judgmental about what I wrote. If other teams have more success with dynamic pricing than the White Sox do, it could be because marketing strategies that work in other cities aren't successful with White Sox fans. That should be a concern in the White Sox marketing department.

I'm sure if the White Sox gave away tickets for free, attendance would be better still. That doesn't change the fact that dynamic pricing is a successful marketing strategy that has worked in other markets.

I was coming at this from a professional marketing perspective and don't appreciate your rudeness.

Golden Sox
05-18-2012, 09:22 PM
As much as I have always disliked Walter O'Malley for moving the Dodgers out of Brooklyn, he knew how to run a franchise. Even tho LA became a goldmine for the Dodgers, he rarely raised the price of the tickets at Dodgers Stadium. He made sure the average person could afford to bring his family to the Dodgers games. This dynamic ticket pricing is for the birds. I'm told the White Sox have the 4th highest ticket prices in MLB. Its bad enough that these tickets are expensive then they turnaround and charge you even more for games against the Cubs, Yankees and Red Sox.

Boondock Saint
05-18-2012, 09:23 PM
There was nothing self-righteous or judgmental about what I wrote. If other teams have more success with dynamic pricing than the White Sox do, it could be because marketing strategies that work in other cities aren't successful with White Sox fans. That should be a concern in the White Sox marketing department.

I'm sure if the White Sox gave away tickets for free, attendance would be better still. That doesn't change the fact that dynamic pricing is a successful marketing strategy that has worked in other markets.

I was coming at this from a professional marketing perspective and don't appreciate your rudeness.

I bet it'd work here, too, if they ever actually lowered the price of tickets. As it stands, "dynamic pricing" is just a fancy nickname for "Let's charge you more for these games, because people are going anyway".

dickallen15
05-18-2012, 09:30 PM
I bet it'd work here, too, if they ever actually lowered the price of tickets. As it stands, "dynamic pricing" is just a fancy nickname for "Let's charge you more for these games, because people are going anyway".
I don't understand the model when there are 20k seats unsold and they want you to pay at least $45 to sit downstairs, $75 if you want to sit in the infield, and $36 to sit in the infield upstairs 3 hours before the first pitch.

I believe they want to train people to buy their tickets well in advance. I think it will go over about as well as the upper deck did. If they did it in 2006, it may have had a chance. There is no chance now.

Wedema
05-18-2012, 09:36 PM
Actually if you bothered to read the thread and not post your self-righteous, judgmental bull****, you'd notice price is a huge concern for a lot of people.

Have you ever noticed how 1/2 Price Mondays are always big hit?


If you bothered to read the article from the OP, you'd notice the low attendance at last week's 1/2 Price Monday vs. the Tigers. I remember when you couldn't even get a seat for 1/2 Price Monday's unless you bought well in advance.

doublem23
05-18-2012, 09:36 PM
I bet it'd work here, too, if they ever actually lowered the price of tickets. As it stands, "dynamic pricing" is just a fancy nickname for "Let's charge you more for these games, because people are going anyway".

Yeah, I am sure for most posters this isn't a difficult concept to grasp. The Sox have one of the lowest average attendance figures in the league and one of the highest average ticket prices. I guess you could just go and blame the fans for not showing up, but I'd bet most other people are capable of putting 2 and 2 together.

Boondock Saint
05-18-2012, 09:41 PM
If you bothered to read the article from the OP, you'd notice the low attendance at last week's 1/2 Price Monday vs. the Tigers. I remember when you couldn't even get a seat for 1/2 Price Monday's unless you bought well in advance.

Somehow, going to watch a sometimes mediocre, sometimes dog**** team on a Monday night just because it's cheap doesn't sound so great. God forbid they actually discount a weekend game here or there.

doublem23
05-18-2012, 09:47 PM
If you bothered to read the article from the OP, you'd notice the low attendance at last week's 1/2 Price Monday vs. the Tigers. I remember when you couldn't even get a seat for 1/2 Price Monday's unless you bought well in advance.

It would take someone about 10 minutes to look over the Sox attendance numbers from the last few years to realize 1/2 Price Mondays are always among the highest attended games every season.. for a decade. You're right though, 1 exception CLEARLY negates 10 years of data.

Also, it would take someone about... 15 seconds... to look it up and see that even though last Monday's game was a stinker, it still had the most butts in the seats of any game since Opening Weekend, including the games against the Red Sawx, which are usually big draws.

Wedema
05-18-2012, 09:52 PM
Somehow, going to watch a sometimes mediocre, sometimes dog**** team on a Monday night just because it's cheap doesn't sound so great. God forbid they actually discount a weekend game here or there.

I doubt there are any teams (in any sport) that will have discounted seats on weekends. I do think that the Sox should discount all Monday through Thursday games early and late in the season when the kids are still in school. Also, how about 6:10 p.m. starts for all of the early and late season weekday games so more families can attend without having to keep the kids out late on school nights (I think that the Rays did this a couple of years ago).

DSpivack
05-18-2012, 10:00 PM
I doubt there are any teams (in any sport) that will have discounted seats on weekends. I do think that the Sox should discount all Monday through Thursday games early and late in the season when the kids are still in school. Also, how about 6:10 p.m. starts for all of the early and late season weekday games so more families can attend without having to keep the kids out late on school nights (I think that the Rays did this a couple of years ago).

It's not about discounts, it's a question overall as to why White Sox pricing is so high. It's one of the highest in MLB without the demand pushing that price up so high, as happens with the Yankees, Red Sox or Cubs. Other comparable teams, a la the Braves, Rockies or Nationals, have much more affordable tickets at the low end than do the White Sox.

That said, I agree somewhat with BoondockSaint, as well, that if the Sox had a winning team then attendance would be better, as well. I think demand there is a mix of cost and team play. I think that currently the White Sox have neither affordable tickets nor a good team, and thus attendance suffers.

Wedema
05-18-2012, 10:07 PM
It would take someone about 10 minutes to look over the Sox attendance numbers from the last few years to realize 1/2 Price Mondays are always among the highest attended games every season.. for a decade. You're right though, 1 exception CLEARLY negates 10 years of data.

Also, it would take someone about... 15 seconds... to look it up and see that even though last Monday's game was a stinker, it still had the most butts in the seats of any game since Opening Weekend, including the games against the Red Sawx, which are usually big draws.


I didn't need to look up any numbers, as I was probably in attendance for most of the Monday games over the last decade. If I did not get the game as part of my season ticket group, I would always purchase the Monday games early due to the discounted price.

Also, once again, it was in the article about last Monday being the fourth highest attended game this year. Unfortunately for the Sox, it was also 35 degrees and rainy when the Red Sox were in town.

TommyGavinFloyd
05-18-2012, 10:10 PM
As others have mentioned, the Sox version of "dynamic pricing" seems to be a one way street. I hate it and can't see any reason why I wouldn't go Stubhub every time.

Boondock Saint
05-18-2012, 10:10 PM
I doubt there are any teams (in any sport) that will have discounted seats on weekends. I do think that the Sox should discount all Monday through Thursday games early and late in the season when the kids are still in school. Also, how about 6:10 p.m. starts for all of the early and late season weekday games so more families can attend without having to keep the kids out late on school nights (I think that the Rays did this a couple of years ago).

Hey, if they'd prefer to have a half-empty stadium every weekend rather than get people buying cheap tickets and spending money on beer and delicious nacho helmets, that's fine. But they shouldn't expect me to give a rat's ass about the empty stands when they jack up the price for popular games, and never go out of their way to throw us a bone when there's a ****ty team coming to town. You don't get to have it both ways.

voodoochile
05-18-2012, 10:40 PM
Well for all the talk about how attendance is bad this year I would like to point out that the Sox will still easily beat every year's attendance figure prior to 1982 in team history and probably everything prior to 1990 with the exception of 1984 and 1983. I realize it's a different world now and more people go to sporting events, but it still is something to think about...

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/wsoxatte.shtml

Lip Man 1
05-18-2012, 11:17 PM
Voodoo:

Good point however they'll lose people in the seats for the 6th consecutive year compared to the previous season.

That is an ominous trend.

Lip

voodoochile
05-18-2012, 11:32 PM
Voodoo:

Good point however they'll lose people in the seats for the 6th consecutive year compared to the previous season.

That is an ominous trend.

Lip

Well to be picky the 2006-2008 seasons were three of the top 6 seasons in team history for attendance. 2009 and 2010 were the 7th and 8th highest ever (in the middle of one of the worst economic downturns in the country's history) and last year they still broke the 2M mark for only the 13th time in team history.

There isn't a lot of hype around this year's team. There wasn't any hype at all coming into the season. We know the reasons why this is happening, what happens this year is kind of already a done deal because any attendance will have to rely on heavy single game sales which as we saw with Gallas is a bad way to drive attendance, but each season/window is unique and can come up at any time.

The Sox have plenty of money to spend this we know. How soon they can start driving attendance by opening another window only time will tell.

Lamp81
05-18-2012, 11:51 PM
While I do think they should work on lowering the price of their own tickets to prevent the Stubhub effect, they could also give fans other benefits, namely parking and food discounts. Fountain sodas are extremely cheap to produce. How about a large soda for $1. McDonalds can do it and make money. How about half price food before 1st pitch? How about half price parking on weeknights? $25 dollars to park is insane! How about lowering the price of souveneirs at the park. Make sure every kid that comes to the park, goes home with something.

The families are getting priced out of the stadium experience. If we don't get the next generations involved in the game of baseball, eventually it will fade away. I do everything I can to instill the love of White Sox baseball in my kids, the way my Dad did for me. Anything the Sox can do to promote families at the ballpark, will pay off for years to come.

Domeshot17
05-18-2012, 11:54 PM
I don't know why this is a shock. As someone who is a marketing manager and has a degree in economics, the entire problem can be solved by taking Marketing 101 and Econ 101 at any local community college.

Demand is already low, and the price point is far too high. The White Sox want to charge you like they are a Lexus, and then want you to drive off in a Suzuki.

Of course Brooks is not going to say he messed up, if he does, he will be fired. He is going to blame the consumer.

For me, it is simple. To go to a game on the weekend with my wife and newborn son, It will cost around 100 bucks when you factor in food and such. I would not pay 20 bucks to go see a movie that gets horrendous reviews just to go to a movie. I use that same concept when going to games. The team is below average, they don't intend to win, so I won't go at that price. If it cost me 60 bucks, I might be more inclined.

In terms of Dynamic Pricing, it is a model that works for teams that already draw well. The entire concept is, demand peaks at points and demand is greater than supply, so we can charge more and still have the same number of people in the stands. However, it is a bad concept for fickle fan bases and teams that do not draw well.

The white sox as a whole have a more blue collar and younger fan base. Less disposable income. With the economy down, your average family with children has less disposable income. The cell does not draw people who go for a fun night out like wrigley does. So you bank everything that people will chose to spend their money on an inferior product vs. spending it elsewhere. This very much comes down to the fact that Brooks Boyer has never understood his target market. He has wanted to change the climate of who is a Sox fan, and he has failed miserably. When the Sox win, it does not matter, when they lose, his ineptness is highly exposed.

doublem23
05-19-2012, 12:19 AM
The white sox as a whole have a more blue collar and younger fan base. Less disposable income. With the economy down, your average family with children has less disposable income. The cell does not draw people who go for a fun night out like wrigley does. So you bank everything that people will chose to spend their money on an inferior product vs. spending it elsewhere. This very much comes down to the fact that Brooks Boyer has never understood his target market. He has wanted to change the climate of who is a Sox fan, and he has failed miserably. When the Sox win, it does not matter, when they lose, his ineptness is highly exposed.

I think one look at the Cubs Bud Light bleachers will disprove that point. I'm not sure the problem is one of demographics or money or anything like that, I think the biggest challenge the Sox face inside the Chicago market is that they don't compete AT ALL with the Cubs for transplants to the area. Especially in the city, there's a big number of kids and adults living here from other parts of the Midwest and country not native to Chicago and pretty much all those people wind up choosing the Cubs as the team they follow if they adopt one of the Chicago teams as one of their own. For every Cub fan that grows up in Chicago and moves away for school, work, etc. there's a new transplant to the region that takes his place. For every Sox fan that grows up here and eventually moves away, they are not replaced. Aside from our own GoGoCrede who was shown the light by her college roommate (I think), I don't really know of anyone who moved here and chose the Sox.

Probably also doesn't help that in my life (I'm 29), aside from 2005, the Sox have won a grand total of 4 playoff games in my lifetime, one of which I can't remember because it happened about 32 days after I was born.

The Immigrant
05-19-2012, 12:30 AM
Especially in the city, there's a big number of kids and adults living here from other parts of the Midwest and country not native to Chicago and pretty much all those people wind up choosing the Cubs as the team they follow if they adopt one of the Chicago teams as one of their own.

I don't have any data to back this up, but it seems to me that a very high percentage of Midwestern transplants come from cities/states with their own AL franchises (Michigan, Ohio, Minnesota, Kansas City area...). I think everyone in the city knows someone from Michigan or Ohio who adopted the Cubs as their NL team upon moving here.

kittle42
05-19-2012, 12:44 AM
I think one look at the Cubs Bud Light bleachers will disprove that point. I'm not sure the problem is one of demographics or money or anything like that, I think the biggest challenge the Sox face inside the Chicago market is that they don't compete AT ALL with the Cubs for transplants to the area. Especially in the city, there's a big number of kids and adults living here from other parts of the Midwest and country not native to Chicago and pretty much all those people wind up choosing the Cubs as the team they follow if they adopt one of the Chicago teams as one of their own. For every Cub fan that grows up in Chicago and moves away for school, work, etc. there's a new transplant to the region that takes his place. For every Sox fan that grows up here and eventually moves away, they are not replaced. Aside from our own GoGoCrede who was shown the light by her college roommate (I think), I don't really know of anyone who moved here and chose the Sox.

Amen. It seems most Sox fans deny this. It's so true. Go out of town. Tell someone you are from Chicago Does anyone ever ask you whether you are a Sox fan before they ask whether you are a Cub fan? My unscientific answer is 20 of 20 times no.

FielderJones
05-19-2012, 12:47 AM
I don't have any data to back this up, but it seems to me that a very high percentage of Midwestern transplants come from cities/states with their own AL franchises (Michigan, Ohio, Minnesota, Kansas City area...). I think everyone in the city knows someone from Michigan or Ohio who adopted the Cubs as their NL team upon moving here.

Lakeview seems to be the destination for young Big 10 grads, so naturally they would gravitate to the Cubs.

I've noticed an interesting demographic change in Naperville, however. Five, ten years ago, that was completely a Cubs town. The last few times I was there, I was surprised by all the people wearing Sox gear on the streets. I wonder if all the non-native yuppies who moved out of the city to Naperville got tired of dragging their kids on the long trek to Wrigley, when US Cellular is a much more convenient drive up 55 with plenty of parking for the minivan or SUV.

SephClone89
05-19-2012, 12:52 AM
I've noticed an interesting demographic change in Naperville, however. Five, ten years ago, that was completely a Cubs town. The last few times I was there, I was surprised by all the people wearing Sox gear on the streets. I wonder if all the non-native yuppies who moved out of the city to Naperville got tired of dragging their kids on the long trek to Wrigley, when US Cellular is a much more convenient drive up 55 with plenty of parking for the minivan or SUV.

Yeah, the Sox seem to have made fairly significant gains in the Western suburbs. When I was a kid growing up it seemed to be 75/25, but these days it's probably gloser to 60/40.

FielderJones
05-19-2012, 12:53 AM
Yeah, the Sox seem to have made fairly significant gains in the Western suburbs. When I was a kid growing up it seemed to be 75/25, but these days it's probably gloser to 60/40.

Hinsdale and Clarendon Hills have a decidedly Sox tilt.

dllrbll7
05-19-2012, 01:03 AM
I think part of the problem is the season ticket holders dumping tickets for way under face on stubhub. I am just as guilty as the next season ticket holder, $10 is better than nothing, and that's all I have gotten for many games this year for my premium lower box seats.

My suggestion to the sox was to revamp the season ticket holder unused ticket policy. If they said they would give me 50% credit towards next year on any ticket that is not used I would not be so worried to go and dump the tickets on stubhub for a fraction of the cost. This would not only make it more valuable to be a season ticket holder but it would also make more people go to the box office and not to stubhub. They would be losing out on some revenue the next year, but if we keep taking a loss on all these tickets on stubhub, they may not be getting any revenue from us next year. Then if they have a product that is good, they wouldn't have to worry about it anyways.

thomas35forever
05-19-2012, 03:19 AM
This is just a general thought, but I feel it's relevant to this thread. Often times, I'll get into conversations with my 80-year-old grandfather about how cheap it used to be to go to games and buy concessions there. He believes the biggest problem in pro sports today is that the "little guy" has been priced out. Obviously, he's referring to the average Joe who could go out and buy a ticket or two or four as he pleases. I know the problem itself isn't going to go away anytime soon, but based on some of the things I'm reading here, a lot of folks (young and old) probably share the same sentiment.

Steelrod
05-19-2012, 04:56 AM
This is just a general thought, but I feel it's relevant to this thread. Often times, I'll get into conversations with my 80-year-old grandfather about how cheap it used to be to go to games and buy concessions there. He believes the biggest problem in pro sports today is that the "little guy" has been priced out. Obviously, he's referring to the average Joe who could go out and buy a ticket or two or four as he pleases. I know the problem itself isn't going to go away anytime soon, but based on some of the things I'm reading here, a lot of folks (young and old) probably share the same sentiment.
No just sports. A newspaper was a penny, a movie and a candy bar a nickel. Cars were $500, a hamburger was 15 cents a steak was a buck. and the average worker made $1000 a year.

russ99
05-19-2012, 08:41 AM
I think part of the problem is the season ticket holders dumping tickets for way under face on stubhub. I am just as guilty as the next season ticket holder, $10 is better than nothing, and that's all I have gotten for many games this year for my premium lower box seats.

My suggestion to the sox was to revamp the season ticket holder unused ticket policy. If they said they would give me 50% credit towards next year on any ticket that is not used I would not be so worried to go and dump the tickets on stubhub for a fraction of the cost. This would not only make it more valuable to be a season ticket holder but it would also make more people go to the box office and not to stubhub. They would be losing out on some revenue the next year, but if we keep taking a loss on all these tickets on stubhub, they may not be getting any revenue from us next year. Then if they have a product that is good, they wouldn't have to worry about it anyways.

I don't want to disrespect the season ticket holders, but I also think there should be a change, both by the team and the attitude of the holders.

Seems to me it's like the housing bubble, and some season ticket holders liked being able to make some money back on the bigger games. Now the demand isn't there and they have to take a loss on resale.

I realize it's a huge commitment to prepay for 81 games in advance, and the team should recognize that too and find a way for these people who keep the franchise afloat every year with that commitment find some other method for resale that doesn't push them towards taking huge losses on Stub Hub.

If there was some way to guarantee face value (akin to Nine Inch Nails' no tickets idea for their final tour to remove scalpers) and take the notion of profit and loss out of the ticket market at least a little bit, that would be the best.

Quentin08
05-19-2012, 09:40 AM
I don't think it has much to do with price. Yeah it's ridiculously expensive for most people just to park.. but overall even if every day was free parking and half-price tickets, most would opt to stay home and watch the games on tv.

Why? It's just not that enjoyable. The hassle getting to and from the game, sitting next to some obnoxious drunk from Joliet - or worse, some Cub fan - and sitting for 3 hours in a ballpark that's not that exciting, doesn't seem that worth it. I used to love going to US Cellular Field, but the whole ballpark vibe has gotten dull to me. They've tried sprucing it up over the years, but to me it's still an old Amerisuites with a nice glowing Hyatt Place sign attached to it.

dickallen15
05-19-2012, 09:56 AM
I don't think it has much to do with price. Yeah it's ridiculously expensive for most people just to park.. but overall even if every day was free parking and half-price tickets, most would opt to stay home and watch the games on tv.

Why? It's just not that enjoyable. The hassle getting to and from the game, sitting next to some obnoxious drunk from Joliet - or worse, some Cub fan - and sitting for 3 hours in a ballpark that's not that exciting, doesn't seem that worth it. I used to love going to US Cellular Field, but the whole ballpark vibe has gotten dull to me. They've tried sprucing it up over the years, but to me it's still an old Amerisuites with a nice glowing Hyatt Place sign attached to it.


I think the park is beautiful. I do think a lot of the gimmicks have gotten as stale as most of the hot dog buns they use. These heritage days are a joke. The Cinco de Mayo game was ushers wearing sombreros and the Sox dedicating a half inning trying to sell ballpark Mexican fare on the scoreboard. They aren't even cranking the canned music as much as in the past. When there is no organ, there are long stretches of silence. With a small crowd, it gives off a library vibe, although there does appear to be more fan-o-meter than before, which is irksome.

That will all change when the product on the field is more exciting to watch. I think the White Sox need to revisit their pricing model. 20k unsold seats on the day of the game isn't reason to jack UP the price. All it takes is someone looking at that one time, and they will think White Sox games are too expensive to attend, even though with some research, you can always find a good deal. Not everyone is up for the research.

fisk4ever
05-19-2012, 10:08 AM
They aren't even cranking the canned music as much as in the past. When there is no organ, there are long stretches of silence. With a small crowd, it gives off a library vibe, although there does appear to be more fan-o-meter than before, which is irksome.

I enjoy having less canned music. I'd love to get rid of the vendors blocking my view and the fans coming and going mid-inning so I could just watch baseball.

dickallen15
05-19-2012, 10:21 AM
They aren't even cranking the canned music as much as in the past. When there is no organ, there are long stretches of silence. With a small crowd, it gives off a library vibe, although there does appear to be more fan-o-meter than before, which is irksome.

I enjoy having less canned music. I'd love to get rid of the vendors blocking my view and the fans coming and going mid-inning so I could just watch baseball.
With the music, there just is such long moments of silence in the top half of innings. It doesn't seem like you're at a MLB game.
I'm with you on the coming and going. Make it like hockey, and don't let the people down the aisle until the inning is over. And I don't understand those people that buy something everytime a vendor comes by and for some reason have to stand up until the transaction is completed.

SI1020
05-19-2012, 10:50 AM
Amen. It seems most Sox fans deny this. It's so true. Go out of town. Tell someone you are from Chicago Does anyone ever ask you whether you are a Sox fan before they ask whether you are a Cub fan? My unscientific answer is 20 of 20 times no. There's a popular sporting goods place about a mile from where we live. The last time I was there they didn't even have one White Sox hat in stock. Not one. Plenty of Cubs hats and it looked like just about every other MLB team.

BainesHOF
05-20-2012, 10:53 AM
What would happen if parking was reduced to $10 or even made free?

Wedema
05-20-2012, 11:04 AM
What would happen if parking was reduced to $10 or even made free?


I don't think much of an impact on attendance. You only pay for parking once, but you pay for multiple tickets if you are taking your family. The ticket prices need to come down more, especially those weekday night games early and late in the season when kids are in school. Make all of those games $10 tickets in the Upper Deck and you might see a bump.

dickallen15
05-20-2012, 11:19 AM
I don't think much of an impact on attendance. You only pay for parking once, but you pay for multiple tickets if you are taking your family. The ticket prices need to come down more, especially those weekday night games early and late in the season when kids are in school. Make all of those games $10 tickets in the Upper Deck and you might see a bump.

I think you're right, but the White Sox are always going to have a problem with their upper deck. People don't want to sit there. If you're in the first couple rows of the infield in the upper deck, its a far better place to watch a game than many of the seats downstairs, but its still taboo. Winning will solve the problem, but they may eventually have to do something about it, like make every OF seat an all inclusive ticket or something like that. The Sox did what they could to physically fix it, but the upper deck at USCF still has a bad reputation. Ask a season ticketholder how they do on stubhub with even great upper deck seats. I bet you the worst seat downstairs does better.

Wedema
05-20-2012, 12:16 PM
I think you're right, but the White Sox are always going to have a problem with their upper deck. People don't want to sit there. If you're in the first couple rows of the infield in the upper deck, its a far better place to watch a game than many of the seats downstairs, but its still taboo. Winning will solve the problem, but they may eventually have to do something about it, like make every OF seat an all inclusive ticket or something like that. The Sox did what they could to physically fix it, but the upper deck at USCF still has a bad reputation. Ask a season ticketholder how they do on stubhub with even great upper deck seats. I bet you the worst seat downstairs does better.


When New Comiskey opened, I had season tickets in the second row in Sect. 530 for a couple of years and loved the seats. But, now, after upgrading to the Lower bowl, I have no interest in going to the UD ever again. The entire ballpark experience is just better in the lower bowl.

The Immigrant
05-20-2012, 12:36 PM
What would happen if parking was reduced to $10 or even made free?

Sox fans would find other excuses for not attending the games.

ChicagoG19
05-20-2012, 12:44 PM
Sox fans would find other excuses for not attending the games.

I disagree. I still think price plays a huge part. I remember reading not too long ago that the Sox have the 4th or 5th highest average ticket price in baseball. That goes against supply/demand fundamentals.

Steelrod
05-20-2012, 01:43 PM
I disagree. I still think price plays a huge part. I remember reading not too long ago that the Sox have the 4th or 5th highest average ticket price in baseball. That goes against supply/demand fundamentals.
Disagree!
Very few people buy average tickets. The Sox have more Suites and premium seating areas than most teams. The only cost you should concern yourself with is the cost of the ticket you buy!
And BTW, have you ever parked a car in New York, Boston, or the other side of town? Or downtown for that matter! Take a train or bus, it's a lot cheaper.

ChicagoG19
05-20-2012, 01:55 PM
Disagree!
Very few people buy average tickets. The Sox have more Suites and premium seating areas than most teams. The only cost you should concern yourself with is the cost of the ticket you buy!
And BTW, have you ever parked a car in New York, Boston, or the other side of town? Or downtown for that matter! Take a train or bus, it's a lot cheaper.

New York, Boston, and the Cubs all have larger fan bases and bigger demand for tickets. They can charge higher prices and the cost of parking is less of a factor for them.

I take the train, bike to the park, or find street parking near the stadium when I go. I also do extra work to get tickets at a reasonable price (IMO). I search the internet for the Sox promo codes, go to stub hub, or craigslist. However, the casual fan wants to go to the game at a reasonable price (subjective) without having to jump through hoops. While most of us on this forum know that Bridgeport is safe neighborhood, the neighborhood and the south side still suffer from the perception that they are unsafe. Additionally, most casual fans don't want to search for promo codes or trust stub hub or craigslist. The diehards will continue to come to the park, but the Sox have to make the cost more reasonable for casual fans without all the hoops.

MUsoxfan
05-20-2012, 02:05 PM
Take a train or bus, it's a lot cheaper.

So like much of the fanbase, I live in the suburbs. Theres no easy way to get there by train or bus, and as a result I have a fixed cost of $25 to attend a game before a ticket is purchased. I could understand if a lot space was at a premium, but it's not as there are many acres of unused White Sox owned parking spaces for almost every game.

There's only so many years you can hike the price of parking and expect people to pay it. Parking prices certainly drive me away from attending games

DumpJerry
05-20-2012, 02:14 PM
So like much of the fanbase, I live in the suburbs. Theres no easy way to get there by train or bus, and as a result I have a fixed cost of $25 to attend a game before a ticket is purchased. I could understand if a lot space was at a premium, but it's not as there are many acres of unused White Sox owned parking spaces for almost every game.

There's only so many years you can hike the price of parking and expect people to pay it. Parking prices certainly drive me away from attending games
Really? I did not know there was a law that prohibits parking near a Metra, Red Line or Green Line station an catching the train to the game.

Wedema
05-20-2012, 02:33 PM
Really? I did not know there was a law that prohibits parking near a Metra, Red Line or Green Line station an catching the train to the game.


I, personally, do not like to leave my car unattended by a train station.

MUsoxfan
05-20-2012, 02:58 PM
Really? I did not know there was a law that prohibits parking near a Metra, Red Line or Green Line station an catching the train to the game.

I don't like to do that. I'm usually getting to the game rather close to first pitch. The train would add another 2-3 hours to my commute

HomeFish
05-20-2012, 03:14 PM
No just sports. A newspaper was a penny, a movie and a candy bar a nickel. Cars were $500, a hamburger was 15 cents a steak was a buck. and the average worker made $1000 a year.

Yeah, except that over the course of my lifetime (I am 25), the relative cost of going to a White Sox game has dramatically increased much more than the relative cost of buying a newspaper or a candy bar.

I used to attend 30+ games a year in high school and college. Today, if I still lived in Chicago, there's no way I would do that, due to the sharper increases in price. Thank god I live in the DC area, where I can still see the Expos play several times a week for relatively little.

But this is the idea behind dynamic pricing: they run up the price on people who are willing to pay more, and by doing this they make more money than they would by giving discounts to lots of cheapos like me. That will reslt in smaller crowds, but if the team makes more money I'm all for it.

DumpJerry
05-20-2012, 04:03 PM
Question for those of you complaining about the price of parking: are you willing to forego any future complaints about the team not spending enough on free agents? Also, are you aware that there are parking lots in Chinatown which, when combinwd with CTA fare, are less expensive than Sox parking and add about six minutes to your commute time??

kittle42
05-20-2012, 06:09 PM
Question for those of you complaining about the price of parking: are you willing to forego any future complaints about the team not spending enough on free agents? Also, are you aware that there are parking lots in Chinatown which, when combinwd with CTA fare, are less expensive than Sox parking and add about six minutes to your commute time??

Kudos, Dump. If you are willing to add maybe - realistically - 15 minutes to your commute time both ways, you can park for nothing.

"I don't like to leave my care anattended at a train station." Do you ever leave it unattended in a lot or on the street? Is there data that says you are overwhelmingly more likely to get vandalized at a train station (if there is, I will be happy to admit it)?

Quit whining, suburbanites. It's laziness. I wish they charged $100 for parking.

Steelrod
05-20-2012, 06:54 PM
Kudos, Dump. If you are willing to add maybe - realistically - 15 minutes to your commute time both ways, you can park for nothing.

"I don't like to leave my care anattended at a train station." Do you ever leave it unattended in a lot or on the street? Is there data that says you are overwhelmingly more likely to get vandalized at a train station (if there is, I will be happy to admit it)?

Quit whining, suburbanites. It's laziness. I wish they charged $100 for parking.
Are you willing to leave your car unattended at a Sox lot? Or do you expect them to hire security and have the lots well lit? And direct traffic? These things cost money this year that last, etc.

kevingrt
05-20-2012, 07:08 PM
So like much of the fanbase, I live in the suburbs. Theres no easy way to get there by train or bus, and as a result I have a fixed cost of $25 to attend a game before a ticket is purchased. I could understand if a lot space was at a premium, but it's not as there are many acres of unused White Sox owned parking spaces for almost every game.

There's only so many years you can hike the price of parking and expect people to pay it. Parking prices certainly drive me away from attending games

Would you go to many more games if you could park for free? There are various spots that are 6-10 blocks away from the stadium in nice neighborhoods. Cost of parking should not keep you from the ballpark.

Wedema
05-20-2012, 07:38 PM
Kudos, Dump. If you are willing to add maybe - realistically - 15 minutes to your commute time both ways, you can park for nothing.

"I don't like to leave my care anattended at a train station." Do you ever leave it unattended in a lot or on the street? Is there data that says you are overwhelmingly more likely to get vandalized at a train station (if there is, I will be happy to admit it)?

Quit whining, suburbanites. It's laziness. I wish they charged $100 for parking.

I actually park for free now but I used to leave my car at Jewel at 87th and the Ryan and take the Red line to the park. Maybe I'm just a "suburbanite", but I would bet if you tried that once, you would know why I don't do it anymore.

DumpJerry
05-20-2012, 07:56 PM
I actually park for free now but I used to leave my car at Jewel at 87th and the Ryan and take the Red line to the park. Maybe I'm just a "suburbanite", but I would bet if you tried that once, you would know why I don't do it anymore.
Why park it there if you don't feel comfortable? The Red Line goes all the way up to Howard Street with plenty of street parking all the way (except downtown, of course).

DumpJerry
05-20-2012, 07:58 PM
Would you go to many more games if you could park for free?
Good question. Every year the Sox have the audacity to charge for parking, we have people on here whining about the cost and none of them have ever said they would go to more games if parking was free.

JB98
05-20-2012, 08:30 PM
I live in the suburbs, but I NEVER drive to the ballpark anymore. I'd have to come to far fewer games if I were shelling out that parking fee every game. Does public transportation add to my commute time? Yeah, but oh well. I'd rather take a little longer getting to and from the ballpark than cough up that dough to have my car sit in the stadium lot for four hours.

mrfourni
05-20-2012, 08:32 PM
Good question. Every year the Sox have the audacity to charge for parking, we have people on here whining about the cost and none of them have ever said they would go to more games if parking was free.

I don't pay to park and I would definitely go to less games if I had to tack on an extra 25 to every game

Parrothead
05-20-2012, 10:26 PM
In my opinon, what also hurts attendance is that if you have an upper deck ticket you can't get into the lower deck. There is lots of stuff in the lower deck that people would want to see / do...see the statues, different food choices, ect. If the ushers just did their job and keep seat weasels out of someone's seats, I think it would help. So far USCF is the only field that I have been to in the MLB that has this policy (I only have both NY's, Fla's and Texas to go to).

sachin
05-20-2012, 10:50 PM
I actually park for free now but I used to leave my car at Jewel at 87th and the Ryan and take the Red line to the park. Maybe I'm just a "suburbanite", but I would bet if you tried that once, you would know why I don't do it anymore.

I take the Metra down from Beverly, which, RT, is $8.50. I typically go with 2 friends, though, so we could theoretically pay the same amount and drive, but we're usually having a few adult beverages and don't want to drive...

Noneck
05-20-2012, 10:58 PM
In my opinon, what also hurts attendance is that if you have an upper deck ticket you can't get into the lower deck. There is lots of stuff in the lower deck that people would want to see / do...see the statues, different food choices, ect. If the ushers just did their job and keep seat weasels out of someone's seats, I think it would help. So far USCF is the only field that I have been to in the MLB that has this policy (I only have both NY's, Fla's and Texas to go to).

What concessions are open in upper deck in 15K game? I watch the game on TV and see a handful of people up there and the poor souls cant even go downstairs.

chisoxfanatic
05-20-2012, 10:59 PM
What concessions are open in upper deck in 15K game? I watch the game on TV and see a handful of people up there and the poor souls cant even go downstairs.
Pretty much all the concessions near the area behind home plate are open. But, the concession stands down the foul lines can be ghostly.

Noneck
05-20-2012, 11:01 PM
Pretty much all the concessions near the area behind home plate are open. But, the concession stands down the foul lines can be ghostly.

Even the concessions behind the plate must be dead with only a handful of people up there.

chisoxfanatic
05-20-2012, 11:31 PM
Even the concessions behind the plate must be dead with only a handful of people up there.
And, it seems as if THOSE games, the concession workers seem to be the SLOWEST! Guess they really aren't given a chance to get into a true "rhythm" when crowds are sparse.

DumpJerry
05-20-2012, 11:44 PM
Pretty much all the concessions near the area behind home plate are open. But, the concession stands down the foul lines can be ghostly.

And, it seems as if THOSE games, the concession workers seem to be the SLOWEST! Guess they really aren't given a chance to get into a true "rhythm" when crowds are sparse.
Not sure which games you've been to, but there have been steady lines at all lower bowl stands at the dozen or games I've been to this year.

chisoxfanatic
05-20-2012, 11:45 PM
Not sure which games you've been to, but there have been steady lines at all lower bowl stands at the dozen or games I've been to this year.
Upper and lower deck are two separate things. Noneck asked about the uppers.

WhiteSox5187
05-21-2012, 12:04 AM
Question for those of you complaining about the price of parking: are you willing to forego any future complaints about the team not spending enough on free agents? Also, are you aware that there are parking lots in Chinatown which, when combinwd with CTA fare, are less expensive than Sox parking and add about six minutes to your commute time??

Seeing as how the White Sox are allegedly rebuilding, I doubt that they will really be spending a whole lot of their parking revenue on any top tier free agents.

The real problem here for the White Sox seems to be the law of supply and demand. In 2010 it cost $258.68 (tickets, parking, concessions) to take a family of four to a White Sox game. I believe that ticket prices went up in 2011 and I am not sure that they went down at all in 2012. That is the fourth highest in baseball behind only the Yankees, the Red Sox and the Cubs. The Cubs, the Yankees, the Red Sox can charge those prices because for whatever reason the demand IS there. For the White Sox the demand is clearly not there for whatever reason. I honestly have no idea if they would attract more fans by lowering ticket and parking prices. The fact that half price Mondays are typically so well attended would suggest that they might. But seeing as how this team is supposed to be rebuilding and cutting payroll it seems ridiculous to continue to have the costs for a game be in the top five in baseball. To even be in the top ten seems a bit silly.

Here is where I got my figures in case anyone is wondering: http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=6281410

soxgirl617
05-21-2012, 09:39 AM
I don't want to disrespect the season ticket holders, but I also think there should be a change, both by the team and the attitude of the holders.

Seems to me it's like the housing bubble, and some season ticket holders liked being able to make some money back on the bigger games. Now the demand isn't there and they have to take a loss on resale.

I realize it's a huge commitment to prepay for 81 games in advance, and the team should recognize that too and find a way for these people who keep the franchise afloat every year with that commitment find some other method for resale that doesn't push them towards taking huge losses on Stub Hub.

If there was some way to guarantee face value (akin to Nine Inch Nails' no tickets idea for their final tour to remove scalpers) and take the notion of profit and loss out of the ticket market at least a little bit, that would be the best.

Do you really think I pay thousands of dollars, months before the season starts, so I might make a few bucks on a few games?! Absolutely not. I'm a season ticket holder for a number of reasons, none of which are making money on reselling tickets. That's crazy.

As to the Sox commitment to their season ticket holders, this is the thanks we got this year. I sit in the premium club level. Every other season ticket holder in the park, except for those in the club level and IIRC the premium lower boxes, had their ticket prices reduced. Our ticket price stayed the same. At least they didn't go up, I suppose. To add insult to injury, we pay full price for Monday night games.

Please don't respond that tickets in the premium club level are owned by businesses. At least in my section, that's not true at all. Most seats are owned by individuals. The Sox could have gained some good will, if nothing else, by lowering our prices as they did for everyone else.

Okay, rant over. Returning to the topic: if the Sox had a good team on the field, they would sell more tickets. That's the bottom line, IMHO. Price is important, but the quality of the team is the most important thing.

jdm2662
05-21-2012, 10:05 AM
Yet another thread where someone points something out about costs or other means of getting to the park, and the city snobs are rubbing their noses because they are cool. You know, when you take family members and other people to games, its not as easy as some think it is. When it's just myself and my wife who go to games often, then yes, other means (which I know plenty of, believe it or not. How a non-city moron like myself even knows this is amazing), is very possible. For the Brewers series, I'm planning a tailgate party and inviting friends and in laws. Another means of traveling and parking is simply not possible. But hey, I'm some stupid suburban guy for parking in the Sox lots.

kobo
05-21-2012, 10:37 AM
Good question. Every year the Sox have the audacity to charge for parking, we have people on here whining about the cost and none of them have ever said they would go to more games if parking was free.
If parking was cheaper I would definitely drive more. For the most part I usually take the L when I go to a game. That's great for going to the game, but the return trip is what I hate. I live in Mount Prospect so I have to drive over to Rosemont and get on the blue line and then transfer to the red. It's about a 45 minute ride on the L for me, and another 10-15 to get to the station. It's a hassle, but it beats paying $25 to park my car for a few hours. If it was cheaper to park, say like $15, I'd be more inclined to drive to the game so I could tailgate and get home much faster after the game ends.

I think that the Sox are missing out on the opportunity to promote tailgating at the park by charging what they charge for parking. If the price was a little more reasonable that might help draw the casual fan to the park because they could spend a couple hours grilling and drinking in the lot and then not spend as much money inside the park. But I also understand that the Sox want you to spend money in the park so it's kind of a catch-22.

amsteel
05-21-2012, 10:47 AM
And, it seems as if THOSE games, the concession workers seem to be the SLOWEST! Guess they really aren't given a chance to get into a true "rhythm" when crowds are sparse.

This might be my biggest non-monetary complain about USCF. It shouldn't take an inning-plus to buy 1 beer and one dog. I don't know if it's incompetence or what, but it shouldn't take any longer than 30 seconds per customer.

beasly213
05-21-2012, 10:52 AM
This might be my biggest non-monetary complain about USCF. It shouldn't take an inning-plus to buy 1 beer and one dog. I don't know if it's incompetence or what, but it shouldn't take any longer than 30 seconds per customer.

That's not really unique to USCF. Lots of stadiums I've been to across the country have had slow lines. Credit/Debit cards as payment tend to hurt the flow of lines as sometimes the machines aren't instant and people need to sign for their purchase, etc.

That and I can't tell you how many times I've been in line and it's someones turn and they don't know what they want. What were you looking at while you were in line??

chisoxfanatic
05-21-2012, 11:08 AM
That's not really unique to USCF. Lots of stadiums I've been to across the country have had slow lines. Credit/Debit cards as payment tend to hurt the flow of lines as sometimes the machines aren't instant and people need to sign for their purchase, etc.

That and I can't tell you how many times I've been in line and it's someones turn and they don't know what they want. What were you looking at while you were in line??
A lot of places I've been to have a small menu that's way behind the counter. They should put them right at the same spot the title of the concession stand is so that people in the back can see it.

PaleHoser
05-21-2012, 11:23 AM
I have a family of five, used to have weekend season tickets and attend Soxfest regularly. The Sox have priced me out of attending games with my entire family.

I'd like the option to be able to roam the lower deck concourse with an upper deck ticket. I should have the option of standing on the concourse and watching the game from the lower-level, but don't. I wouldn't watch a game from the upper deck for free.

I understand why it was closed. A few bad apples spoiling it for everyone. But at $8 a beer, who can afford to get loaded at a ballgame anymore?

Steelrod
05-21-2012, 12:38 PM
I have a family of five, used to have weekend season tickets and attend Soxfest regularly. The Sox have priced me out of attending games with my entire family.

I'd like the option to be able to roam the lower deck concourse with an upper deck ticket. I should have the option of standing on the concourse and watching the game from the lower-level, but don't. I wouldn't watch a game from the upper deck for free.

I understand why it was closed. A few bad apples spoiling it for everyone. But at $8 a beer, who can afford to get loaded at a ballgame anymore?
Let me understand. You want to buy the cheapest ticket possible but refuse to sit there. You are upset by how much it costs to get drunk, but no longer go with your family. Who drives you home? I recommend you stand in front of your tv with a six pack and everyone will be better off!

kellykid
05-21-2012, 12:55 PM
Let me understand. You want to buy the cheapest ticket possible but refuse to sit there. You are upset by how much it costs to get drunk, but no longer go with your family. Who drives you home? I recommend you stand in front of your tv with a six pack and everyone will be better off!
I think he was referring to the reason for the fans being confined to the upper deck :smile:

GoGoCrede
05-21-2012, 12:59 PM
That's not really unique to USCF. Lots of stadiums I've been to across the country have had slow lines. Credit/Debit cards as payment tend to hurt the flow of lines as sometimes the machines aren't instant and people need to sign for their purchase, etc.

That and I can't tell you how many times I've been in line and it's someones turn and they don't know what they want. What were you looking at while you were in line??


I'd have to agree. The actual food prep and payment takes less than a minute when you're paying cash, but other factors have to be taken into account, like some moron not knowing what they want when they've been standing there for 5 minutes. Also, sometimes they're so busy, they run out of certain kinds of hot dog. Or someone just has a huge order. It happens. Maybe they just need more hot dog stands.

Jerko
05-21-2012, 01:04 PM
I'd have to agree. The actual food prep and payment takes less than a minute when you're paying cash, but other factors have to be taken into account, like some moron not knowing what they want when they've been standing there for 5 minutes. Also, sometimes they're so busy, they run out of certain kinds of hot dog. Or someone just has a huge order. It happens. Maybe they just need more hot dog stands.


Also, on poorly attended dates, a lot of stands are closed and the whole outfield has to order from the fan deck, which makes a small group turn into a large line.

DumpJerry
05-21-2012, 01:15 PM
A lot of places I've been to have a small menu that's way behind the counter. They should put them right at the same spot the title of the concession stand is so that people in the back can see it.
Some of the concession stands at The Urinal have the menu boards visible from several yards away. I've stood in line for an inning plus waiting to place my order at the stand with only four or five items on the menu. Why does it take so long? After staring at the meager offerings on the menu board for up to 30 minutes, the idiot Blue Fans say "ummmm.....what do I want?" When asked by the cashier.:angry:

kittle42
05-21-2012, 02:01 PM
Yet another thread where someone points something out about costs or other means of getting to the park, and the city snobs are rubbing their noses because they are cool. You know, when you take family members and other people to games, its not as easy as some think it is. When it's just myself and my wife who go to games often, then yes, other means (which I know plenty of, believe it or not. How a non-city moron like myself even knows this is amazing), is very possible. For the Brewers series, I'm planning a tailgate party and inviting friends and in laws. Another means of traveling and parking is simply not possible. But hey, I'm some stupid suburban guy for parking in the Sox lots.

Kudos for telling it like it is! :tongue:

jdm2662
05-21-2012, 02:04 PM
Kudos for telling it like it is! :tongue:

By all means, please continue to stroke yourself and your ego. I hate to see you on a day where you think lesser of yourself.

kittle42
05-21-2012, 02:30 PM
By all means, please continue to stroke yourself and your ego. I hate to see you on a day where you think lesser of yourself.

If you had known the fight I got into with my fiancee last night, you'd know that today *is* a day where I think lesser of myself. Thus, you got me on a good day!

Elitism 2012!

chisoxfanatic
05-21-2012, 04:06 PM
Some of the concession stands at The Urinal have the menu boards visible from several yards away. I've stood in line for an inning plus waiting to place my order at the stand with only four or five items on the menu. Why does it take so long? After staring at the meager offerings on the menu board for up to 30 minutes, the idiot Blue Fans say "ummmm.....what do I want?" When asked by the cashier.:angry:
Wouldn't it be great to tell those people to get back to the end of the line?!

jdm2662
05-23-2012, 12:43 PM
On another note, the Sox can do all the marketing, etc. they want. I'm sure their 7-13 home record won't get people excited to come to the ol ball park.

amsteel
05-23-2012, 01:01 PM
On another note, the Sox can do all the marketing, etc. they want. I'm sure their 7-13 home record won't get people excited to come to the ol ball park.

I'm not sure how much the home record affects the general ticket buying public. I would assume if you're a casual fan, or family you have a general sense of whether the team is good or bad, and based on that you look and see how expensive tickets are. Based on those 2 factors you decide wheter to go. I have my doubts that walk up fans are checking the paper to see what the home/road splits are, and basing their decision on that, regardless of other factors.

People on here hate the poor home record because we're gonna go to games whether the team is good or bad and mostly regardless of price and a losing record at home means we're gonna see more losses. So yes, maybe fewer die-hards will go, but the casual fan base is relatively unaffected.

RowanDye
05-24-2012, 01:48 AM
I live in Bloomington, Indiana, which is ~4 1/2hrs from the ballpark and MLB.TV is blacked out.

The whole system is ****ed up. We need major change.

roylestillman
05-26-2012, 10:44 AM
So here I am, beautiful day, Sox playing great, nothing to do, maybe I'll hop on the train and take in a ballgame. I check the Sox site and the cheapest seat downstairs is $50. A "prime" game added $4, dynamic pricing added $5 and "fees" added another $5. The worst seat in the house down the line in the upper deck can't be had for less than $28. Dynamic pricing has even been applied to those seats. The site also shows that there tons of seats available. How many people looking at this same scenario this morning, especially families, will decide to go to the ballpark today.

The day of the walk up crowd is dead.

dickallen15
05-26-2012, 10:49 AM
So here I am, beautiful day, Sox playing great, nothing to do, maybe I'll hop on the train and take in a ballgame. I check the Sox site and the cheapest seat downstairs is $50. A "prime" game added $4, dynamic pricing added $5 and "fees" added another $5. The worst seat in the house down the line in the upper deck can't be had for less than $28. Dynamic pricing has even been applied to those seats. The site also shows that there tons of seats available. How many people looking at this same scenario this morning, especially families, will decide to go to the ballpark today.

The day of the walk up crowd is dead.
This is what I've been saying. They have at least 10,000 unsold seats, how do they price them higher now? It makes zero sense. I think they are trying to train people to buy tickets well in advance, and with Chicago's climate, good luck with that in April and May.


They are killing the walk up crowd. When you don't have a lot of advanced tickets sold, that doesn't appear to be a very good idea.

soxgirl617
05-26-2012, 10:53 AM
So here I am, beautiful day, Sox playing great, nothing to do, maybe I'll hop on the train and take in a ballgame. I check the Sox site and the cheapest seat downstairs is $50. A "prime" game added $4, dynamic pricing added $5 and "fees" added another $5. The worst seat in the house down the line in the upper deck can't be had for less than $28. Dynamic pricing has even been applied to those seats. The site also shows that there tons of seats available. How many people looking at this same scenario this morning, especially families, will decide to go to the ballpark today.

The day of the walk up crowd is dead.


Your experience demonstrates why StubHub, not the Sox, will get those "last minute" buyers. Last Tuesday morning my niece bought tickets from StubHub for that night. She got lower box tickets at third base, in the front row, for $40 per ticket including fees. "Walk up" buyers should be using StubHub, apparently.

roylestillman
05-26-2012, 10:55 AM
Your experience demonstrates why StubHub, not the Sox, will get those "last minute" buyers. Last Tuesday morning my niece bought tickets from StubHub for that night. She got lower box tickets at third base, in the front row, for $40 per ticket including fees. "Walk up" buyers should be using StubHub, apparently.

Except for today Stub Hub prices area worse.

FielderJones
05-26-2012, 11:01 AM
Only upper deck seats are currently available on Stubhub. Maybe the Ventura bobblehead promo has something to do with it.

SephClone89
05-26-2012, 11:56 AM
Only upper deck seats are currently available on Stubhub. Maybe the Ventura bobblehead promo has something to do with it.

There are plenty of lower level tickets...

ChicagoG19
05-26-2012, 11:57 AM
Either way this dynamic pricing idea is so stupid. Even the Cardinals (who won the world series btw) do dynamic pricing the "true" way. If there are unsold tickets, they lower prices. There are some games where tickets can be had for $5 directly from the team. $28 for a nosebleed ticket? Give me a break. Even the Cubs series won't sell out with this dynamic pricing bull****.

kevingrt
05-26-2012, 12:06 PM
Either way this dynamic pricing idea is so stupid. Even the Cardinals (who won the world series btw) do dynamic pricing the "true" way. If there are unsold tickets, they lower prices. There are some games where tickets can be had for $5 directly from the team. $28 for a nosebleed ticket? Give me a break. Even the Cubs series won't sell out with this dynamic pricing bull****.

Look how the dynamic pricing did at Wrigley on Friday and Sunday of the Sox vs Cubs series. And IMO the lack of a sell out had nothing to do with NATO. Had to do with "bad" baseball teams and overpriced tickets for the market.

ChiSoxGal85
05-26-2012, 12:08 PM
Either way this dynamic pricing idea is so stupid. Even the Cardinals (who won the world series btw) do dynamic pricing the "true" way. If there are unsold tickets, they lower prices. There are some games where tickets can be had for $5 directly from the team. $28 for a nosebleed ticket? Give me a break. Even the Cubs series won't sell out with this dynamic pricing bull****.

No kidding!!! Isn't it better to get $5 than nothing for an empty seat?

Frater Perdurabo
05-26-2012, 12:14 PM
No kidding!!! Isn't it better to get $5 than nothing for an empty seat?

Plus the concessions sales, parking, etc...

TomBradley72
05-26-2012, 12:40 PM
I sure hope Brooks or someone from the White Sox reads these boards- usually the White Sox are able to generate nice walk up sales when their team is "surprisingly good" or the weather is great, etc.

But this year- I don't see any evidence of that- I think this pricing 'scheme" is ridiculous and is killing "day of game" sales- especially when you know you don't have a "premium" product and your fan base is going through a very tough economic environment- really stupid approach.

Then you're stuck with lots of images on TV of an empty ballpark and it's reinforced in the media- all for what? So you can squeeze a few dollars more out of the ticket price- while you give up parking/concessions revenue?

You can give me all the incentive you want to buy tix ahead of time- but based on the uncertainty of Chicago weather April-June (I attended a mid-June game once when the weather was in the 40's)- I'm not going to bite.

The only games I'll purchase in advance are Opening Day, and big weekend series (if we're contending) in July and August.

jdm2662
05-26-2012, 12:49 PM
I will be heading down to the ballpark today, and the there aren't really any deals on Stub Hub.

FoulTerritory
05-26-2012, 12:49 PM
I'm starting to think Brooks Boyer has rocks in his head.

I used to get annoyed with his marketing gaffs like diminishing organ play, the conversion of the ballpark atmosphere to bulls-game style, the tinkering with the formerly awesome road grey uniforms, etc. It sometimes seems like he uses a cookie-cutter marketing approach on a fan-base that is actually quite unique.

And now, this faux dynamic pricing where lack of demand actually seems to make ticket prices rise. I mean is he trying to crush the fan base? What on earth is going on in the marketing and sales department? Its baffling.

WLL1855
05-26-2012, 01:09 PM
I will be heading down to the ballpark today, and the there aren't really any deals on Stub Hub.

Day of the game sales on Stub Hub are always going to be hit or miss. Personally I know of a few ticket holders that work on coming up with a plan B a few days before the game is played.

Now look at the games after July 4th on Stub Hub. With the lone exception of the Yankees series you can get a ticket for the game for below face value. And if you aren't terribly fussy about where you sit there's an abundance of tickets for ten bucks or less on the site.

Now compare that to the screwjob you get from Ticketmaster for those dates. It is just absurd.

doublem23
05-26-2012, 01:16 PM
There are plenty of lower level tickets...

Right now there are 42

Look how the dynamic pricing did at Wrigley on Friday and Sunday of the Sox vs Cubs series. And IMO the lack of a sell out had nothing to do with NATO. Had to do with "bad" baseball teams and overpriced tickets for the market.

Eh, I think NATO had something to do with it. I know there were a lot of people who basically went into hiding for that weekend, they actually bought all the doomsday predictions from the media and thought the Chicago Police Department couldn't actually handle a bunch of hippies. Also, the Metra restrictions were brutal for that weekend, too. I'm sure plenty of people figured it wasn't worth the hassle.

amsteel
05-26-2012, 02:08 PM
Look how the dynamic pricing did at Wrigley on Friday and Sunday of the Sox vs Cubs series.

Only the bleachers at Wrigley are dynamic. Everything else is tiered the same way the base prices are at USCF.

gobears1987
05-26-2012, 02:17 PM
The only thing that shocks me about dynamic pricing is that this guy didn't come up with it first.

:dollarbill:

Frater Perdurabo
05-26-2012, 02:37 PM
I think Brooks is a smart man. I also think he knows his market, and is executing a marketing strategy specifically to maximize revenues from what the organization believes is its most underutilized market demographic.

I think he knows that we "core of the core" fans are only so many in number. We are the ones who wanted Nancy to play all games, we are the ones who wanted green seats, we are the ones who - if we live in the area and can afford it - generally come out to the park no matter what.

Just outside of the "core of the core" are the "core" fans, who watch as many games as possible on TV and come to the park more when the team is playing well. I think Brooks also realizes this group is relatively limited.

Then there are the casual fans who will come out for fireworks or family promotions, and will jump on the bandwagon during really good years. I think this group generally doesn't belong to Sox message boards and doesn't know the minutiae of the team's ticketing practices. Most probably can't even name all five starting pitchers. I think it is this market the Sox are trying to develop (and exploit for as much profit as possible), and therefore Brooks is charged with developing marketing practices that will achieve these objectives.

It doesn't make sense to us because it isn't designed for us - they know we won't switch teams just because the marketing practices annoy us.

roylestillman
05-26-2012, 03:00 PM
I think Brooks is a smart man. I also think he knows his market, and is executing a marketing strategy specifically to maximize revenues from what the organization believes is its most underutilized market demographic.

I think he knows that we "core of the core" fans are only so many in number. We are the ones who wanted Nancy to play all games, we are the ones who wanted green seats, we are the ones who - if we live in the area and can afford it - generally come out to the park no matter what.

Just outside of the "core of the core" are the "core" fans, who watch as many games as possible on TV and come to the park more when the team is playing well. I think Brooks also realizes this group is relatively limited.

Then there are the casual fans who will come out for fireworks or family promotions, and will jump on the bandwagon during really good years. I think this group generally doesn't belong to Sox message boards and doesn't know the minutiae of the team's ticketing practices. Most probably can't even name all five starting pitchers. I think it is this market the Sox are trying to develop (and exploit for as much profit as possible), and therefore Brooks is charged with developing marketing practices that will achieve these objectives.

It doesn't make sense to us because it isn't designed for us - they know we won't switch teams just because the marketing practices annoy us.

I disagree to a certain extent. I think your third category is made up people who come to a game as a special event, maybe somebody's birthday or part of a trip to Chicago. For the most part they are going to buy their tickets in advance and only go once or twice a year. The category I'm thinking of is truly the casual fan - the impulse buyer if you will - that cuts across all three of your categories. This is the day of game customer that decides to go because its a nice day and why not. They then look at the jacked up dynamic price, and on just the principle of the thing, say screw you. That was me today. I still wil go to 25 games a year on my share of a season plan, but they've lost me on the impulse buy.

I wont be surprised if they get 25,000-28,000 today, but they could have had 35,000. I have seen it, especially on Saturdays, when a walk up crowd fills the place.

TomBradley72
05-26-2012, 03:02 PM
Then there are the casual fans who will come out for fireworks or family promotions, and will jump on the bandwagon during really good years. I think this group generally doesn't belong to Sox message boards and doesn't know the minutiae of the team's ticketing practices. Most probably can't even name all five starting pitchers. I think it is this market the Sox are trying to develop (and exploit for as much profit as possible), and therefore Brooks is charged with developing marketing practices that will achieve these objectives.

.

But IMHO- this is the group that you want to attract to the ballpark so they become repeat customers- and hope that a certain number develop into core fans.

The casual fan is the one that will visit the website/ticketmaster- see $28 to sit in horrible seats or $60 to sit at the 100 level- and make a choice to do something else with their day/evening that won't cost the family $200 + parking/concessions. This is exactly the group that you would want to make game day/walk up/upper deck seats VERY attractive to entice them to give the Sox a try.

chisoxfanatic
05-26-2012, 03:31 PM
While it won't create sell-outs, you'd have to think that, if the Sox continue winning like this, more fans will be willing to pay the dynamic prices. I think that there are so many people who take the "wait and see" approach, who don't want to be pulled in just because of a single hot streak.

Is there any chance the July 4th game gets sold out? I'm trying to mull over my plans for that day, but haven't set in stone 100%.

FoulTerritory
05-26-2012, 03:37 PM
I think Brooks is a smart man. I also think he knows his market, and is executing a marketing strategy specifically to maximize revenues from what the organization believes is its most underutilized market demographic.

I think he knows that we "core of the core" fans are only so many in number. We are the ones who wanted Nancy to play all games, we are the ones who wanted green seats, we are the ones who - if we live in the area and can afford it - generally come out to the park no matter what.

Just outside of the "core of the core" are the "core" fans, who watch as many games as possible on TV and come to the park more when the team is playing well. I think Brooks also realizes this group is relatively limited.

Then there are the casual fans who will come out for fireworks or family promotions, and will jump on the bandwagon during really good years. I think this group generally doesn't belong to Sox message boards and doesn't know the minutiae of the team's ticketing practices. Most probably can't even name all five starting pitchers. I think it is this market the Sox are trying to develop (and exploit for as much profit as possible), and therefore Brooks is charged with developing marketing practices that will achieve these objectives.

It doesn't make sense to us because it isn't designed for us - they know we won't switch teams just because the marketing practices annoy us.

I am a hardcore fan and former partial season ticket holder. Granted I moved to New Mexico last year so I can't go to many games anymore, but my last three years living in Illinois I went to far far fewer games than previously. I used to go to 20-25 games a year and enjoy them regardless of how the Sox are doing, but now the whole experience seems taxing. The intrinsic atmosphere at the park sucks (I mean the aspects of the atmosphere not related to wins/losses), and this dynamic pricing stuff definitely makes a spontaneous "walk up" less appealing.

So I disagree that these decisions don't have an effect on the core of the core as well. And if you are a smart marketer you want to please your core (and build it) because if you do then they will do half the marketing work for you . . . they will sell the Sox experience and help make new generations of fans.

GoGoCrede
05-26-2012, 03:44 PM
I am a hardcore fan and former partial season ticket holder. Granted I moved to New Mexico last year so I can't go to many games anymore, but my last three years living in Illinois I went to far far few games than previously. I used to go to a 20-25 games a year and enjoy them regardless of how the Sox are doing, but now the whole experience seems taxing. The intrinsic atmosphere at the park sucks (I mean the aspects of the atmosphere not related to wins/losses), and this dynamic pricing stuff definitely makes a spontaneous "walk up" less appealing.

So I disagree that these decisions don't have an effect on the core of the core as well. And if you are a smart marketer you want to please your core (and build it) because if you do then they will do half the marketing work for you . . . they will sell the Sox experience and help make new generations of fans.

I can see what you're saying. I'm a new fan compared to many on this board. I think my fandom was really cemented in those early years when I could afford more of the games (and definitely cemented by being able to attend the Blackout Game, which was only $38 each for my friend and me). However, I'm very much a walk-up person. In 2010 I attended 30 games and most of those were last-minute decisions since I can get to the park fairly quickly through public transit. I see myself as an example of being able to attend more games cements my status as a lifelong fan - which isn't to say that I wouldn't be a fan if I couldn't attend. But it's very much a bonus.

There have been some pretty cheap tickets this season, but this weekend I'm priced out completely (not that I would have been able to go, as I'm working/broke right now). Although I understand it's a holiday.

roscrea
05-27-2012, 09:15 AM
I have been a full season ticket holder along with a group of friends since the day the park opened. I have used the tickets over the last 20 years not just for me and my friends and family, but for client entertainment. It seems everyone wants tickets when they are cheap or free. What killed the Sox attendance this year is the excitement that lead to significant pre-season sales of season and partial season tickets over the last three years. There was excitement in the offseason, excitement at Soxfest, and large numbers of presale tickets for individual games and series were sold as well. After the first week or so of the season, the teams dug holes that they could not get out of. Last year was the worst. By May 1 people felt the season was lost. Many people felt ripped off by the performance of the team and the way it was handled and managed. A large number of these people did not renew their tickets and are not buying tickets on presale in the winter. They are taking a wait and see approach.

These things always run in cycles. At some point the Sox will have a playoff team that everyone believes in early and the attendance will change. Management needs to recognize the significant investment the fanbase made in the Sox the last 3 years created a wound that needs to heal. I agree better pricing will help prevent a scar.

On a sidenote I was there yesterday and had a great time. This is a very promising team that deserves support. I will be taking my kids to at least 10 games this summer.

ode to veeck
05-28-2012, 06:47 AM
Welcome to WSI!!



I have been a full season ticket holder along with a group of friends since the day the park opened. I have used the tickets over the last 20 years not just for me and my friends and family, but for client entertainment. It seems everyone wants tickets when they are cheap or free. What killed the Sox attendance this year is the excitement that lead to significant pre-season sales of season and partial season tickets over the last three years. There was excitement in the offseason, excitement at Soxfest, and large numbers of presale tickets for individual games and series were sold as well. After the first week or so of the season, the teams dug holes that they could not get out of. Last year was the worst. By May 1 people felt the season was lost. Many people felt ripped off by the performance of the team and the way it was handled and managed. A large number of these people did not renew their tickets and are not buying tickets on presale in the winter. They are taking a wait and see approach.

These things always run in cycles. At some point the Sox will have a playoff team that everyone believes in early and the attendance will change. Management needs to recognize the significant investment the fanbase made in the Sox the last 3 years created a wound that needs to heal. I agree better pricing will help prevent a scar.

On a sidenote I was there yesterday and had a great time. This is a very promising team that deserves support. I will be taking my kids to at least 10 games this summer.

ode to veeck
05-28-2012, 11:44 AM
Dynamic pricing is an insult, and we're 3rd generation Sox fans with a 4th and 5th generation already here. Nothing turns me off more and I refuse to pay such "premiums" ever, period, end of story.

The part of this I have been saying for more than 20 years is Reindorf & co. "abdicated"' Chicago to the Scrubs... the comments about 20 out of 20 out of towners asking you today about the Cubs when they find you're from Chicago and not even thinking about the White Sox is spot on; today is absolutely much worse then even 30 years ago, in the early 80s, when the Sox were more popular across the US than today by a long shot, even after a long serious of struggles throughout the 70s....while they brought us a champtionship, the Sox ownership have totally failed in making the White Sox as a brand stand out...it continues to decline....growing up it was much more a Sox town in 50s and 60s, and pretty even through the 70s (in spite of the Sox's struggles on the field for the most park), Veeck actually grew the brand fairly successfully in his last tenure, albeit was in no financial position to really make a consistent contender, but since then the "brand" has been in continuous decline, in spite of serious competitve streaks early 90s and early "oughts"

Lip Man 1
05-28-2012, 12:24 PM
Veeck:

Without question the Sox got the lion's share of the media coverage in the 50's through 1965 or so.

It is a fact that from day one, the ownership particularly Eddie Einhorn, insisted on marketing the Sox as "Chicago's American League team" and refused to 'take on' the Cubs when they had the chance to.

What was so puzzling to me about that philosophy was that Cub fans simply were not going to start showing up at Comiskey Park to support the Sox when the Cubs were on the road. It wasn't going to happen.

You'd think that both JR and EE would know this basic understanding of Chicago baseball, after all they both lived in the area since 1957. JR also going on the radio in the mid 90's and saying that "Chicago has always been a Cubs town" was also bizarre and flat out wrong.

:?:

Lip

LITTLE NELL
05-28-2012, 02:03 PM
I have been a full season ticket holder along with a group of friends since the day the park opened. I have used the tickets over the last 20 years not just for me and my friends and family, but for client entertainment. It seems everyone wants tickets when they are cheap or free. What killed the Sox attendance this year is the excitement that lead to significant pre-season sales of season and partial season tickets over the last three years. There was excitement in the offseason, excitement at Soxfest, and large numbers of presale tickets for individual games and series were sold as well. After the first week or so of the season, the teams dug holes that they could not get out of. Last year was the worst. By May 1 people felt the season was lost. Many people felt ripped off by the performance of the team and the way it was handled and managed. A large number of these people did not renew their tickets and are not buying tickets on presale in the winter. They are taking a wait and see approach.

These things always run in cycles. At some point the Sox will have a playoff team that everyone believes in early and the attendance will change. Management needs to recognize the significant investment the fanbase made in the Sox the last 3 years created a wound that needs to heal. I agree better pricing will help prevent a scar.

On a sidenote I was there yesterday and had a great time. This is a very promising team that deserves support. I will be taking my kids to at least 10 games this summer.

They ran in cycles at one time but not anymore, when was the last time we outdrew the Cubs? It was in the early 90s when Comiskey II first openned.
We could not even outdraw them in 2005 when we were World Champs and 2006 when teams always draw great after a championship year.
Sundays crowd was an absolute disgrace, 22,000 and the smallest crowd in the majors. 10 million people in the Chicago metro area and 22,000 show up. I feel for the players especially PK, 30.000 should come out just to watch him hit.
So whats the answer, we can't beat Wrigley Field, its a tourist attraction in a trendy part of town. When a business is not doing as well as it should be what do the owners do, they lower the prices.
Mr. Reinsdorf you can put some fannies in the seats by lowering parking prices and making any seat above the post line in the upper deck 8 or 10 bucks, maybe lower. The Reds when they played at Riverfront had cheap prices for what they called ''Top 6'' seats. The last 6 rows of the UD all around the park were dirt cheap. No more of this charging more for some games than others. I think Sox fans are starting to fight this idea. Major League Baseball is just that, its not minor league baseball when the Royals come to town.
If things don't improve we just might start hearing talk of the Sox relocating, I think the lease is up in 2021 which is only 8 years away.
Never say never, in the early 60s the Sox were drawing well and by 1968 the talk was that their days in Chicago were numbered.

FoulTerritory
05-28-2012, 03:04 PM
And there is an article in the trib today suggesting that Kenny is hoping for a "spike" in attendance so he can be a buyer.

Well, if they keep deterring the walk-up crowd with dynamically high game-day pricing, then good luck getting that "spike."

There wasn't enough hype in this team to expect a spike in attendance without the benefit of walk-ups, and to have this system in place which deters that portion of gate, parking, and concession revenue is ludicrous.

ChicagoG19
05-28-2012, 03:15 PM
And there is an article in the trib today suggesting that Kenny is hoping for a "spike" in attendance so he can be a buyer.

Well, if they keep deterring the walk-up crowd with dynamically high game-day pricing, then good luck getting that "spike."

There wasn't enough hype in this team to expect a spike in attendance without the benefit of walk-ups, and to have this system in place which deters that portion of gate, parking, and concession revenue is ludicrous.

The Sox will blame the fans for not showing up, but I continue to believe it's their stupid pricing decisions this year.

roylestillman
05-28-2012, 03:21 PM
The Sox lease with the ISFA ends 2029. (I think it was extended after the US Cellular naming rights bond deal which renovated the stadium in the mid 2000's) Your points are still valid though Nell. The difference is that this attendance drought seems to be self-inflicted, beyond just performance. Dynamic pricing, $25 parking and $7.75 beer are just nuts.

I'm all for premium prices for the best seats in the house. I also see nothing wrong with higher prices for weekend and premium draws like the Cubs, Yankees, and Red Sox. But to jack up the prices of the nosebleed seats over the weekend with an average of 15,000 empty seats ought to tell them something.

(oh and to Roscrea-On Offaly!)

34rancher
05-28-2012, 03:22 PM
The Sox will blame the fans for not showing up, but I continue to believe it's their stupid pricing decisions this year.

Not just this year. A LOT of people I know stopped going with the "premier" bull. It's a joke to charge more because of who you are playing. Since I love "sports", and not "business", I've stopped going. Since they force me to think of my money and their business, and not my enjoyment, I've saved my money for other things. Sorry, this has been debated here for a while, but its garbage and wrong. They are seeing their greed cost them at the gate. Learn from it is my attitude.

WhiteSox5187
05-28-2012, 03:28 PM
The Sox lease with the ISFA ends 2029. (I think it was extended after the US Cellular naming rights bond deal which renovated the stadium in the mid 2000's) Your points are still valid though Nell. The difference is that this attendance drought seems to be self-inflicted, beyond just performance. Dynamic pricing, $25 parking and $7.75 beer are just nuts.

I'm all for premium prices for the best seats in the house. I also see nothing wrong with higher prices for weekend and premium draws like the Cubs, Yankees, and Red Sox. But to jack up the prices of the nosebleed seats over the weekend with an average of 15,000 empty seats ought to tell them something.

(oh and to Roscrea-On Offaly!)

That is typical of the White Sox though. The White Sox have had a long history of being penny wise and pound foolish dating back to the original owner Charles Comiskey.

Brian26
05-28-2012, 03:29 PM
If things don't improve we just might start hearing talk of the Sox relocating, I think the lease is up in 2021 which is only 8 years away.
Never say never, in the early 60s the Sox were drawing well and by 1968 the talk was that their days in Chicago were numbered.

The Sox aren't going anywhere.

Remember that the discussions back in the 60s (and 70s) occurred when there weren't 30 major league teams in the league, so you had cities like Denver, Seattle, and Milwaukee starved for baseball. Now, those cities have franchises, there are two poorly-drawing teams in Florida, Oakland had a huge stadium mess, etc. The Sox aren't moving anywhere. If anyone moves to Charlotte, it will be the Rays.

LITTLE NELL
05-28-2012, 03:46 PM
The Sox aren't going anywhere.

Remember that the discussions back in the 60s (and 70s) occurred when there weren't 30 major league teams in the league, so you had cities like Denver, Seattle, and Milwaukee starved for baseball. Now, those cities have franchises, there are two poorly-drawing teams in Florida, Oakland had a huge stadium mess, etc. The Sox aren't moving anywhere. If anyone moves to Charlotte, it will be the Rays.

If the lease is over in 2029 I'm not going to worry about it, I don't know if I'll make 83 years of age. Following the Sox has probably taken a few years from me, its almost as bad as smoking. It still bothers the **** out of me that the Sox are the 2nd banana in town especially growing up when they were #1 in town.

keloms
05-28-2012, 05:15 PM
Day of the game sales on Stub Hub are always going to be hit or miss. Personally I know of a few ticket holders that work on coming up with a plan B a few days before the game is played.

Now look at the games after July 4th on Stub Hub. With the lone exception of the Yankees series you can get a ticket for the game for below face value. And if you aren't terribly fussy about where you sit there's an abundance of tickets for ten bucks or less on the site.

Now compare that to the screwjob you get from Ticketmaster for those dates. It is just absurd.

Stubhub is fine as long as you are checking more than 2 hours before the game. If it's less than 2 hours, only tickets that are with their LMS branch are listed and prices, due to the limited quantity, go back up.

The best time to buy Sox tix on Stubhub is about 2 1/2-3 hours before the game. It's close enough to know what the day / night will look like and, at that point, sellers are thinking "whatever I get now is better than nothing" and lowered prices substantially.

Wedema
05-28-2012, 06:47 PM
They ran in cycles at one time but not anymore, when was the last time we outdrew the Cubs? It was in the early 90s when Comiskey II first openned.
We could not even outdraw them in 2005 when we were World Champs and 2006 when teams always draw great after a championship year.
Sundays crowd was an absolute disgrace, 22,000 and the smallest crowd in the majors. 10 million people in the Chicago metro area and 22,000 show up. I feel for the players especially PK, 30.000 should come out just to watch him hit.
So whats the answer, we can't beat Wrigley Field, its a tourist attraction in a trendy part of town. When a business is not doing as well as it should be what do the owners do, they lower the prices.
Mr. Reinsdorf you can put some fannies in the seats by lowering parking prices and making any seat above the post line in the upper deck 8 or 10 bucks, maybe lower. The Reds when they played at Riverfront had cheap prices for what they called ''Top 6'' seats. The last 6 rows of the UD all around the park were dirt cheap. No more of this charging more for some games than others. I think Sox fans are starting to fight this idea. Major League Baseball is just that, its not minor league baseball when the Royals come to town.
If things don't improve we just might start hearing talk of the Sox relocating, I think the lease is up in 2021 which is only 8 years away.
Never say never, in the early 60s the Sox were drawing well and by 1968 the talk was that their days in Chicago were numbered.

It was 94 degrees and humid at gametime on Sunday. If I did not have tickets already, there would be no way that I would have attended that game. I even considered not going due to the extreme heat and ended up sitting towards the back of my section in the shade for the entire game. The Sox even cancelled the pre game Kids Day autograph session due to the heat.

LITTLE NELL
05-28-2012, 07:10 PM
It was 94 degrees and humid at gametime on Sunday. If I did not have tickets already, there would be no way that I would have attended that game. I even considered not going due to the extreme heat and ended up sitting towards the back of my section in the shade for the entire game. The Sox even cancelled the pre game Kids Day autograph session due to the heat.

It was hot in other places in the country, 90 in St Louis, 45,000......90 in Cincy, 30,000.
I play golf 4 or 5 times a week in the same conditions here in Florida. Never heard it was too hot to go to a game.

kittle42
05-28-2012, 07:17 PM
It was hot in other places in the country, 90 in St Louis, 45,000......90 in Cincy, 30,000.

Good point. According to some posters here, we are also the only fanbase that has children attending school before the summer.

LITTLE NELL
05-28-2012, 07:21 PM
Good point. According to some posters here, we are also the only fanbase that has children attending school before the summer.

I'm not going to say anything more because I don't want to get roadhoused or banned but there is a problem and it comes down to cost. Thats it.

tony1972
05-28-2012, 07:32 PM
Back in June of 2009 a "casual" fan I work with wanted to go to a Sox game - it was against the Dodgers and a beautiful day. As we work in the South Loop we drove to Bridgeport for lunch and stopped by the ballpark to get tickets for the game that night. He hadn't been to a Sox game since 2006..I can't remember if this was before the dynamic ticket pricing.

We were shocked..absolutely shocked at the ticket prices for a week day game vs. the Dodgers. The game was one of the premier ones with the inflated prices. Needless to say..we decided not to go.

Watching the game on TV that night..Hawk made a comment 'only 22,000 for an interleague game vs. the Dodgers?'. Well..I'm wondering if it had been a regularly priced game..I wouldn't be suprised if that number had been 32,000. I'm sure we weren't the only ones turned off by the "premier" game pricing.

I do walk ups a lot too but not as much as I did. I really believe this hurt walk up crowds when you'd get an extra 5,000 a game on a Saturday when it's 75 and beautiful out. If we go to games now..we'll see the Royals on a half price night. Honestly..I'd buy regularly priced tickets to see the Royals, the Indians, etc..but would not spend extra money for the Yankees, Red Sox or Cubs. I'm there to see the WHITE SOX not the Cubs..the Yankees, the Twins, etc. Unless it's a different White Sox team playing (a better Sox team during premium games?)...I refuse to pay extra just b/c of the opponent.

Golden Sox
05-28-2012, 07:39 PM
It's absolute nonsense to think the White Sox will move. The lease expires in 2029. More importantly the White Sox get some serious TV money which I'm sure will go up after this TV deal expires in 2019. They will never move anywhere and get a better stadium lease deal or a better TV deal than what they have in Chicago. I would think the White Sox will have a new ownership by 2029 and if anything they might play in a new park in the Chicagoland area after this stadium lease deal expires. Also, White Sox attendance has always increased after they have a good year. They drew 600,000 more people in 2006 than what they did in 2005.

Brian26
05-28-2012, 07:41 PM
I'm not going to say anything more because I don't want to get roadhoused or banned but there is a problem and it comes down to cost. Thats it.

Just said it in another thread. The Sox have a buzz going right now. I was at the Zoo this morning and saw about 50 Sox caps and two Cubs hats. I was actually blown away.

The Sox need to fix the dynamic pricing nonsense sooner rather than later. There are fans out there that would attend games if the price was right.

Hitmen77
05-28-2012, 07:59 PM
Good point. According to some posters here, we are also the only fanbase that has children attending school before the summer.

Oh come on. Who really suggested that here? Maybe you're right, I don't read every thread - but do you have any examples of people saying this?

I've said my position on this before and I'll repeat it again. The Sox, LIKE ANY OTHER TEAM, have fans who just can't attend many games due to costs and or commitments (like kids in school).

The difference is that other teams have their entire market to themselves. The Tigers have all of Michigan to themselves. The Cardinals have a huge swath of Missouri and S. Ill as their exclusive base, etc.

The Cubs have fans in the exact same boat as what Sox fans say here. I know plenty of Cubs fans who don't go to games all of the time because of cost or other commitments in their lives. But, guess what - for every one of those fans, the Cubs have a deep fan base to overcome that. The Sox don't.

It gets back to what Nell and Ode to Veeck said. The Sox have failed to grow their brand over the last 30 years or so.

Just because the Sox have less overall fans than the Cubs doesn't mean our fans "make more excuses" or are worse at supporting their team.

TommyGavinFloyd
05-28-2012, 08:01 PM
I just looked up what they're charging for a Thursday game against Toronto in our next homestand. Still the $19 or whatever for the far corners of the upper deck, 28 for the parts of the UD around the plate. Meanwhile on Stubhub for 28 I saw tickets behind the 3rd base dugout.

Ticket prices in general are too high (and that's not even factoring in parking) but dynamic pricing just makes it worse. It's a slap in the face for them to act like it's some benefit to us.

kittle42
05-28-2012, 08:22 PM
Oh come on. Who really suggested that here? Maybe you're right, I don't read every thread - but do you have any examples of people saying this?

In fact, I believe there was an unscientific survey conducted in which it was shown that Sox fans are the most likely of all baseball fans to not attend games with school-aged children on weeknights during the spring and fall.

Wedema
05-28-2012, 08:43 PM
It was hot in other places in the country, 90 in St Louis, 45,000......90 in Cincy, 30,000.
I play golf 4 or 5 times a week in the same conditions here in Florida. Never heard it was too hot to go to a game.


Don't both of the teams in Florida play indoors (or have a retractable roof) due to the heat?

LITTLE NELL
05-28-2012, 10:26 PM
Don't both of the teams in Florida play indoors (or have a retractable roof) due to the heat?

More due to the summer afternoon showers. It rains just about every day from June 1st to Oct 1st. They usually start around 3 pm sometimes lasting 20 minutes, sometimes lasting hours. Without a dome it kills your walkup sale.
Bottom line, Florida is not a good baseball market. The Rays with a very good team struggle at the gate and look at the Marlins, they have a brand new stadium and the way it looks might have the lowest attendance in recent history for the first year of a new stadium.

jdm2662
05-28-2012, 10:48 PM
In today's world, you need advanced sales in order to survive. Depending on walk-ups just isn't going to cut it. Can you imagine what the attendance would've been in 2007 had there not been so much advanced sales? As bad as last year's team was, they still had a remote chance as late as the middle of August. The 2007 was done by early June. While I hate scalpers with a passion, sadly, the demand for them drives up the ticket sales.

The Sox had nothing to go by this season. None. Image wise, the team was an embarrassment last season. Sure, they got rid of their assphat manager, but their arrogant, ego-manic, non-performing GM is still around. Last year was by far the worst atmosphere I ever experienced at the ball park. And, the Sox were 6-2 in the games I attended. They also don't get the tourists attractions that Cub games/Wrigley gets. They had a suspect roster and a rookie manager with no coaching experience what-so-ever. Hell, one can argue that hire was just to please some fans.

So, of course, the advanced sales is down. How the hell do you market that? Seriously. Yes, there will be a small spike in sales should the Sox continue to contend to the end of the season. However, they aren't going to get 30K+ every night even if they are in first place from June on. I had no problem going to any game I wanted in 2005. They just aren't. It's the way it is when you depend on walk-up sales. Also, why should people commit to season tickets when they can just go to any game they please?

And, I do not agree with the dynamic pricing, especially since prices are supposed to be LOWER when demand is low.

kevingrt
05-28-2012, 10:59 PM
And, I do not agree with the dynamic pricing, especially since prices are supposed to be LOWER when demand is low.

That is what makes no sense to me. Isn't the point of dynamic pricing supposed to make tickets like a market place? So high demand = high prices. Low demand = low prices?

WLL1855
05-29-2012, 01:13 AM
That is what makes no sense to me. Isn't the point of dynamic pricing supposed to make tickets like a market place? So high demand = high prices. Low demand = low prices?

No, the point of dynamic pricing is to screw the little guy (fan).

If dynamic pricing worked as it should, stubhub wouldn't exist.

GoSox2K3
05-29-2012, 09:17 AM
It was hot in other places in the country, 90 in St Louis, 45,000......90 in Cincy, 30,000.
I play golf 4 or 5 times a week in the same conditions here in Florida. Never heard it was too hot to go to a game.

St. Louis is World Series champions (and historically strong ticket sales) and Cincinnati is defending division champs and looking like they might repeat again this year.

I would hazard to guess that these other teams had much better advance sales of tickets than the White Sox. In other words, they didn't didn't to rely on walk up ticket sales.

It wasn't just 90 in Chicago - it was close to 100. I wouldn't expect teams to get a big boost in walk-up ticket sales on a day that is nearing the century mark.

That's not a "Sox fan excuse", that's just market reality.

doublem23
05-29-2012, 09:20 AM
St. Louis is World Series champions (and historically strong ticket sales) and Cincinnati is defending division champs and looking like they might repeat again this year.

I would hazard to guess that these other teams had much better advance sales of tickets than the White Sox. In other words, they didn't didn't to rely on walk up ticket sales.

It wasn't just 90 in Chicago - it was close to 100. I wouldn't expect teams to get a big boost in walk-up ticket sales on a day that is nearing the century mark.

That's not a "Sox fan excuse", that's just market reality.

Monday was basically just as hot in Chicago and the Cubs put 38,000+ in the seats.

Looks like a Sox fan excuse.

GoSox2K3
05-29-2012, 09:25 AM
In today's world, you need advanced sales in order to survive. Depending on walk-ups just isn't going to cut it. Can you imagine what the attendance would've been in 2007 had there not been so much advanced sales? As bad as last year's team was, they still had a remote chance as late as the middle of August. The 2007 was done by early June. While I hate scalpers with a passion, sadly, the demand for them drives up the ticket sales.

The Sox had nothing to go by this season. None. Image wise, the team was an embarrassment last season. Sure, they got rid of their assphat manager, but their arrogant, ego-manic, non-performing GM is still around. Last year was by far the worst atmosphere I ever experienced at the ball park. And, the Sox were 6-2 in the games I attended. They also don't get the tourists attractions that Cub games/Wrigley gets. They had a suspect roster and a rookie manager with no coaching experience what-so-ever. Hell, one can argue that hire was just to please some fans.

So, of course, the advanced sales is down. How the hell do you market that? Seriously. Yes, there will be a small spike in sales should the Sox continue to contend to the end of the season. However, they aren't going to get 30K+ every night even if they are in first place from June on. I had no problem going to any game I wanted in 2005. They just aren't. It's the way it is when you depend on walk-up sales. Also, why should people commit to season tickets when they can just go to any game they please?

And, I do not agree with the dynamic pricing, especially since prices are supposed to be LOWER when demand is low.

Thank you!

I wish more people would grasp this. Maybe then we'd have less posts on this site from people chiding Sox fans for making excuses to not support our team.

After more than 30 years in MLB, this current ownership apparently doesn't get this concept either as they're already starting their annual "we could get more players if only the fans turned out more" message to their fans.

The White Sox have spend the good part of the last 3 years letting ticket sales slip away. Just because they don't suddenly zoom back up to 35,000 a night after a two week hot streak isn't the indictment on Sox fans that some people like to think it is.

GoSox2K3
05-29-2012, 09:31 AM
Monday was basically just as hot in Chicago and the Cubs put 38,000+ in the seats.

Looks like a Sox fan excuse.

:rolleyes: Did the Cubs get most of that 38,000 from walk up sales?

The comparison to the Cubs is apples and oranges and you know it. The Cubs have a much larger fan base, the tourist crowd, and advanced sales to fall back on.

Sorry, I know people here really want to rip on the Sox fan base for not supporting the team, but it doesn't "look like a Sox fan excuse".

doublem23
05-29-2012, 09:36 AM
:rolleyes: Did the Cubs get most of that 38,000 from walk up sales?

The comparison to the Cubs is apples and oranges and you know it. The Cubs have a much larger fan base, the tourist crowd, and advanced sales to fall back on.

Sorry, I know people here really want to rip on the Sox fan base for not supporting the team, but it doesn't "look like a Sox fan excuse".

Apples to oranges? :rolleyes: It's baseball at Wrigley and the Cell. Here's some more "apples to oranges," the Cubs park is located in a dense, residential neighborhood, miles from an expressway, has zero parking, and is accessible by 1 train line. Sox Park is next to a 16-lane superhighway, has acres of parking lots, and is within walking distance of 3 train lines.

It just boils down to excuses, really.

GoSox2K3
05-29-2012, 09:36 AM
I suppose this board rule is not a real one since I keep reading griping here about Sox attendance and Sox fans' apparent lack of loyalty:

Discussing Attendance - no one wants to hear about it. We all go to as many games as time and finances afford. Making broad sweeping generalizations about Sox fan loyalty is trolling. We don't allow trolling.

GoSox2K3
05-29-2012, 09:39 AM
St. Louis is World Series champions (and historically strong ticket sales) and Cincinnati is defending division champs and looking like they might repeat again this year.

I would hazard to guess that these other teams had much better advance sales of tickets than the White Sox. In other words, they didn't didn't to rely on walk up ticket sales.

It wasn't just 90 in Chicago - it was close to 100. I wouldn't expect teams to get a big boost in walk-up ticket sales on a day that is nearing the century mark.

That's not a "Sox fan excuse", that's just market reality.Monday was basically just as hot in Chicago and the Cubs put 38,000+ in the seats.

Looks like a Sox fan excuse.



:rolleyes: Did the Cubs get most of that 38,000 from walk up sales?

The comparison to the Cubs is apples and oranges and you know it. The Cubs have a much larger fan base, the tourist crowd, and advanced sales to fall back on.

Sorry, I know people here really want to rip on the Sox fan base for not supporting the team, but it doesn't "look like a Sox fan excuse".Apples to oranges? :rolleyes: It's baseball at Wrigley and the Cell. Here's some more "apples to oranges," the Cubs park is located in a dense, residential neighborhood, miles from an expressway, has zero parking, and is accessible by 1 train line. Sox Park is next to a 16-lane superhighway, has acres of parking lots, and is within walking distance of 3 train lines.

It just boils down to excuses, really.

Well, that's two posts in a row where you totally ignored the point I made and tried to make this an argument about Sox fan support vs. Cubs fan support.

What do your replies have to do with the fact that the Cubs have a larger fan base and strong advance ticket sales? .

All that stuff you just stated simply ignores all the points I made. It sounds like an excuse to rip on Sox fans, really.

amsteel
05-29-2012, 10:27 AM
That is what makes no sense to me. Isn't the point of dynamic pricing supposed to make tickets like a market place? So high demand = high prices. Low demand = low prices?

In theory, yes, but if prices consistently drop below what STHs are paying there would be a STH revolt.

jdm2662
05-29-2012, 11:03 AM
In theory, yes, but if prices consistently drop below what STHs are paying there would be a STH revolt.

Right, the other reality in life is this:

No matter how good of a job you do, no matter what you do or try, someone will complain about something." Pleasing everybody just isn't realistic...

FoulTerritory
05-29-2012, 12:08 PM
In theory, yes, but if prices consistently drop below what STHs are paying there would be a STH revolt.

Well then the Sox could set a "dynamic" minimum price that is equal to what a STH would pay for a given seat.

The problem is that many of the ticket prices on game day are actually quite a bit higher than what STH are paying regardless of the fact that only 19,000 people show up.

It's folly.

jdm2662
05-29-2012, 12:13 PM
Well then the Sox could set a "dynamic" minimum price that is equal to what a STH would pay for a given seat.

The problem is that many of the ticket prices on game day are actually quite a bit higher than what STH are paying regardless of the fact that only 19,000 people show up.

It's folly.

And when you do that, there is no incentive of buying season tickets. That goes back to the advanced sales situation that I've been talking about. Advanced sales is what spikes attendance, not a hot two week stretch of good baseball. If you don't give out perks to being a season ticket holder, what is the point of being one?

mrfourni
05-29-2012, 12:28 PM
The problem is that many of the ticket prices on game day are actually quite a bit higher than what STH are paying regardless of the fact that only 19,000 people show up.

.

While on any given night this is true, when you factor in that STH pay double the face value of a 1/2 price Monday ticket, STH do not pay considerably less per ticket than the walk up crowd. It's one of the biggest reasons I gave up season tickets.

Compare that to the Bulls and the Blackhawks, where every ticket for every game is cheaper for STH's than face value.

FoulTerritory
05-29-2012, 12:33 PM
And when you do that, there is no incentive of buying season tickets. That goes back to the advanced sales situation that I've been talking about. Advanced sales is what spikes attendance, not a hot two week stretch of good baseball. If you don't give out perks to being a season ticket holder, what is the point of being one?

So they should screw any chance at increasing walk-up attendance and in-season ticket purchases by grossly over-pricing those tickets just so season ticket holders will feel that they are getting perks?

Again, I'm not talking about selling all the tickets for super cheap, but some of the same day or even same week prices are just absurd through ticketmaster or the box office. You gotta find the water level here . . . find the happy medium.

And before I moved I used to be a season ticket holder and would personally have had no problem with the Sox "dyamically" reducing tickets to more reasonable prices to increase attendance. In the long term, the more happening and full the park is the more appealing it is to be at, and thus, the value of my season tickets on the secondary market will go up instead of down.

kittle42
05-29-2012, 12:35 PM
I suppose this board rule is not a real one since I keep reading griping here about Sox attendance and Sox fans' apparent lack of loyalty:

When the team's GM publicly makes a point of it, I think there's fertile ground to discuss.

Chez
05-29-2012, 12:50 PM
Apples to oranges? :rolleyes: It's baseball at Wrigley and the Cell. Here's some more "apples to oranges," the Cubs park is located in a dense, residential neighborhood, miles from an expressway, has zero parking, and is accessible by 1 train line. Sox Park is next to a 16-lane superhighway, has acres of parking lots, and is within walking distance of 3 train lines.

It just boils down to excuses, really.

Completely agree.

Jerko
05-29-2012, 01:24 PM
I think part of the problem is the in-park experience to new or casual fans. Don't get me wrong, I personally have a blast at Sox games; but, for casual fans/newbies; once you get near/in the park, you're kind of on your own. The only "informative" signs inside the park are posted on closed concession stands that say "go to the fan deck for food". If someone doesn't know the layout of the park, and can't find their seat (which seems to be a bigger problem than it should be for some reason) good luck finding an usher in every section. They staff the park based on predicted attendance, and the park is usually half closed. Kinda gives people a "hurrry up and get out of here, you're bothering us" feeling at times.

Also, even getting to the park (for newbies) can be a hassle. This coupon only works for this lot, that coupon only works in that lot; if you want to pay cash you can only get into a certain entrance of the other lot, etc. The parking attendants are kind of surly as well, and they answer questions as if the person asking the question knows where they're going. If they knew, they wouldn't ask. The Sox call the fans "guests", they should start treating them as such if they want more people to show up more than once. I live close and don't park there, and I know my way around the joint, but I can see the general experience not being palatable to people who don't go all the time.

SaltyPretzel
05-29-2012, 01:28 PM
While on any given night this is true, when you factor in that STH pay double the face value of a 1/2 price Monday ticket, STH do not pay considerably less per ticket than the walk up crowd. It's one of the biggest reasons I gave up season tickets.

Compare that to the Bulls and the Blackhawks, where every ticket for every game is cheaper for STH's than face value.

They get bobbleheads at the end of the year though. That should count for something.

Ragator43
05-29-2012, 02:11 PM
I listened to the game, pre, and post on the radio at work yesterday. Every time the did the read for tickets and dynamic pricing, it was along the lines of, "Don't wait,get your seats for later in the season cheaper now than in the time just before the game with dynamic pricing."

Pulled up the Sox ticketing page and what does it show? Three games vs. Toronto next week as the featured dynamic deals. There were no other games listed in the upcoming deals, nor were there any games dynamically priced throughout the rest of the season.

How can you try to push sales of tickets through what seems to be a non-existent scenario?

Dynamic pricing wouldn't bother me if it were true to its name and applied to all 81 games of the season (as stated in the 'more info' section). As it is now, it's nothing but a half-baked marketing/sales gimmick.

mrfourni
05-29-2012, 02:20 PM
I listened to the game, pre, and post on the radio at work yesterday. Every time the did the read for tickets and dynamic pricing, it was along the lines of, "Don't wait,get your seats for later in the season cheaper now than in the time just before the game with dynamic pricing."

Pulled up the Sox ticketing page and does it show? Three games vs. Toronto next week as the featured dynamic deals. There were no other games listed in the upcoming deals, nor were there any games dynamically priced throughout the rest of the season.

How can you try to push sales of tickets through what seems to be a non-existent scenario?

Dynamic pricing wouldn't bother me if it were true to its name and applied to all 81 games of the season (as stated in the 'more info' section). As it is now, it's nothing but a half-baked marketing/sales gimmick.

I agree, and if their reasoning behind Dynamic Pricing is to get people to buy tickets earlier, wouldn't it make more sense to set a face value for tickets and then offer a set discount for buying earlier (i.e. 10% discount if bought prior to a certain date)? Instead we're told that ticket prices can change at any minute based on demand but the price never seems to go down when the demand is obviously very low.

jdm2662
05-29-2012, 03:00 PM
So they should screw any chance at increasing walk-up attendance and in-season ticket purchases by grossly over-pricing those tickets just so season ticket holders will feel that they are getting perks?

Again, I'm not talking about selling all the tickets for super cheap, but some of the same day or even same week prices are just absurd through ticketmaster or the box office. You gotta find the water level here . . . find the happy medium.

And before I moved I used to be a season ticket holder and would personally have had no problem with the Sox "dyamically" reducing tickets to more reasonable prices to increase attendance. In the long term, the more happening and full the park is the more appealing it is to be at, and thus, the value of my season tickets on the secondary market will go up instead of down.

Maybe you wouldn't be offended by lowering the prices for walk-ups, but people who commit just might be. On crappy weather days or if the team tanks, a person that hasn't committed for the season simply can stop going to the games. The season ticket holders are stuck with the tickets after making a huge commitment.

I have zero incentive in buying season tickets or just any in advance. Why should I? I can go to any game I want at any time. I went on Saturday because it was a 3:00 game, the weather was perfect, and I had a babysitter for my son. There have been times where I bought tickets in advance, and ended up not wanting to go for whatever reason. Since the demand for season tickets is so low, AND you need a high volume to be succesful, you have to have perks to buying season tickets. The White Sox didn't exactly give people reasons to give them lots of money.

And while tickets are easy to get, 10-15 thousand people aren't going to wake up one day and decide to come to the game. Life doesn't work that way, and it's unrelastic to expect it. The Sox drew 2.7 million people in 2007 where they lost 90 games. Why? Because they sold so many in advance, them tanking by early June didn't matter.

LITTLE NELL
05-29-2012, 03:18 PM
Maybe you wouldn't be offended by lowering the prices for walk-ups, but people who commit just might be. On crappy weather days or if the team tanks, a person that hasn't committed for the season simply can stop going to the games. The season ticket holders are stuck with the tickets after making a huge commitment.

I have zero incentive in buying season tickets or just any in advance. Why should I? I can go to any game I want at any time. I went on Saturday because it was a 3:00 game, the weather was perfect, and I had a babysitter for my son. There have been times where I bought tickets in advance, and ended up not wanting to go for whatever reason. Since the demand for season tickets is so low, AND you need a high volume to be succesful, you have to have perks to buying season tickets. The White Sox didn't exactly give people reasons to give them lots of money.

And while tickets are easy to get, 10-15 thousand. Life doesn't work that way, and it's unrelastic to expect it. people aren't going to wake up one day and decide to come to the gameThe Sox drew 2.7 million people in 2007 where they lost 90 games. Why? Because they sold so many in advance, them tanking by early June didn't matter.

Could happen, Baltimore broke its own record last week when they had 11,000 walk ups for a game.

DSpivack
05-29-2012, 03:21 PM
Maybe you wouldn't be offended by lowering the prices for walk-ups, but people who commit just might be. On crappy weather days or if the team tanks, a person that hasn't committed for the season simply can stop going to the games. The season ticket holders are stuck with the tickets after making a huge commitment.

I have zero incentive in buying season tickets or just any in advance. Why should I? I can go to any game I want at any time. I went on Saturday because it was a 3:00 game, the weather was perfect, and I had a babysitter for my son. There have been times where I bought tickets in advance, and ended up not wanting to go for whatever reason. Since the demand for season tickets is so low, AND you need a high volume to be succesful, you have to have perks to buying season tickets. The White Sox didn't exactly give people reasons to give them lots of money.

And while tickets are easy to get, 10-15 thousand people aren't going to wake up one day and decide to come to the game. Life doesn't work that way, and it's unrelastic to expect it. The Sox drew 2.7 million people in 2007 where they lost 90 games. Why? Because they sold so many in advance, them tanking by early June didn't matter.

The Sox current ticketing and marketing plan seems to offer the worst of both: low season-ticket base because of what you say, you can get similarly-priced tickets whenever, and little walkup crowd because day-of ticket prices are jacked up beyond what the normal market price would be.

DSpivack
05-29-2012, 03:22 PM
Could happen, Baltimore broke its own record last week when they had 11,000 walk ups for a game.

I seem to recall the Sox getting continuously good walk-up crowds when they were competitive in the early 2000s.

jdm2662
05-29-2012, 03:30 PM
I seem to recall the Sox getting continuously good walk-up crowds when they were competitive in the early 2000s.

Yes, half price nights.

jdm2662
05-29-2012, 03:32 PM
Could happen, Baltimore broke its own record last week when they had 11,000 walk ups for a game.

It can certainly happen on some nights. Not happening every single night.

kufram
05-29-2012, 03:50 PM
Ok, I'm going to put my two cents in, although I might get ripped and maybe justifiably so because I have only attended 5 mlb games in my life. I've never lived in an mlb locale. That doesn't mean I don't know anything.

My mom took the us when I was about 12 (1963) to Comiskey for a double header. It was packed, I was awed because I had no idea Floyd Robinson was black, and Mike Hershberger made a throw from the right field wall to home that was like a rocket and never more than 10 feet from the ground.... unfortunately the ump blew the call and I've never heard such a noise as the crowd made since then! Garbage thrown on the field and everything.

Luis Aparicio was my hero and I could see his smile from my seat... which was not close to the field.

Next, I was taken to Wrigley (another double header) by a friend's dad when I was about 15. Ferguson Jenkins made his debut and pitched a gem that was boring to watch for me. The ivy did nothing for me.

Then in 2006 I took my daughter and sister to the second game of the season, got our replica rings. Traveled 7000 miles to get there..... oh, ok I was going to visit home....but we did drive 130 miles one way... the seats were small (I'm not).. spent an ungodly sum of money on 3 tickets... even more on parking, food, swag. Sox lost but Thome hit one out of the park.

All in all if I can't walk to the park or get there easily and get in a decent seat for something less than highway robbery, the tv or computer suits me fine.

Marketing can only do so much. You can't make something into something it ain't but I think you shouldn't need to be middle class to afford to go to baseball games regularly. The poorest kids in the city should be able to get in the bleachers.... regularly.

But, hey, that's just me.

DSpivack
05-29-2012, 03:53 PM
Yes, half price nights.

No, I meant night and night out during the summer. I don't mean to think that the Sox could draw 30k/night, but how about 25?

jdm2662
05-29-2012, 04:01 PM
No, I meant night and night out during the summer. I don't mean to think that the Sox could draw 30k/night, but how about 25?


They didn't get 10K walkups every night. They did get that many on some half price nights, espeically the Tuesday ones where you had to bring in the Pepsi cans.

LITTLE NELL
05-29-2012, 04:08 PM
I just glanced at the prices for upcoming games on the Sox website, I was flabbergasted when I saw $87.00 a game to sit in the bleachers for the Cubs series. Anybody that pays $87.00 to sit in the bleachers should have their head examined. I thought that $25.00 was say out of line to sit in the bleachers. No wonder the fans are staying away from the ballpark.

DSpivack
05-29-2012, 04:13 PM
I just glanced at the prices for upcoming games on the Sox website, I was flabbergasted when I saw $87.00 a game to sit in the bleachers for the Cubs series. Anybody that pays $87.00 to sit in the bleachers should have their head examined. I thought that $25.00 was say out of line to sit in the bleachers. No wonder the fans are staying away from the ballpark.

I don't expect the Sox to sell out the place every night, but there is no good reason why a Sox team 6 games over .500 should be 4th from the bottom in MLB attendance. And I don't blame the fans for that.

TomBradley72
05-29-2012, 04:17 PM
I just glanced at the prices for upcoming games on the Sox website, I was flabbergasted when I saw $87.00 a game to sit in the bleachers for the Cubs series. Anybody that pays $87.00 to sit in the bleachers should have their head examined. I thought that $25.00 was say out of line to sit in the bleachers. No wonder the fans are staying away from the ballpark.

About $50 to sit in the bleachers to see the Mariners on Friday. $30 to sit in the worst seats in the park- by the foul pole in the UD.

No way.

doublem23
05-29-2012, 04:17 PM
I just glanced at the prices for upcoming games on the Sox website, I was flabbergasted when I saw $87.00 a game to sit in the bleachers for the Cubs series. Anybody that pays $87.00 to sit in the bleachers should have their head examined. I thought that $25.00 was say out of line to sit in the bleachers. No wonder the fans are staying away from the ballpark.

Obviously that's an unusually high price because it's the Cubs series. Even most of the Upper Deck touches $50 per seat for the Cubs.

kobo
05-29-2012, 04:40 PM
I just glanced at the prices for upcoming games on the Sox website, I was flabbergasted when I saw $87.00 a game to sit in the bleachers for the Cubs series. Anybody that pays $87.00 to sit in the bleachers should have their head examined. I thought that $25.00 was say out of line to sit in the bleachers. No wonder the fans are staying away from the ballpark.
Why buy tickets from the official site when they are way cheaper on stubhub? There are ways around paying full price for a ticket with the easiest option being Stubhub.

DonnieDarko
05-29-2012, 04:55 PM
Why buy tickets from the official site when they are way cheaper on stubhub? There are ways around paying full price for a ticket with the easiest option being Stubhub.

This. I got tickets to the upper level for Thursday's game against the Twins for about $6 each. We were even able to move down to the first row right behind home plate because of the lack of people there. In other words, it's a waste of money NOT to buy off of StubHub. I don't even get my tickets directly from the Sox anymore because their prices are so outrageous.

WhiteSox5187
05-29-2012, 04:55 PM
Obviously that's an unusually high price because it's the Cubs series. Even most of the Upper Deck touches $50 per seat for the Cubs.

I don't mind them jacking up the prices for Cubs series or even against the Yankees and Red Sox because they know the demand will be there. That's just smart business. But as someone pointed out to pay $50 against the Mariners on a Friday night and about $30 for the upper deck behind a pole is just ridiculous. The demand just isn't there to ask those kind of prices.

doublem23
05-29-2012, 04:57 PM
Why buy tickets from the official site when they are way cheaper on stubhub? There are ways around paying full price for a ticket with the easiest option being Stubhub.

Actually for the Cubs series, there aren't much better deals on Stubhub. Best deal I found for bleachers was in Section 164, 1 ticket, for $78. Of course, the games are still a few weeks away. Would suspect those will fall again.

doublem23
05-29-2012, 05:01 PM
I don't mind them jacking up the prices for Cubs series or even against the Yankees and Red Sox because they know the demand will be there. That's just smart business. But as someone pointed out to pay $50 against the Mariners on a Friday night and about $30 for the upper deck behind a pole is just ridiculous. The demand just isn't there to ask those kind of prices.

No argument from me, although, FWIW, I've been looking at a few upcoming series for tickets and have noticed that even the deals on Stubhub are getting harder to find. For instance, Friday's game vs. Seattle, best price for a ticket right now is $9.99. And it's by itself. Cheapest lower deck seats are in 161 (Bleachers) for $30 a pop. Perhaps that's a good sign.

LITTLE NELL
05-29-2012, 05:04 PM
Why buy tickets from the official site when they are way cheaper on stubhub? There are ways around paying full price for a ticket with the easiest option being Stubhub.

I agree, living in Florida I was just curious what the Sox are charging for tickets. We are going to St. Pete tomorrow to see the Sox game and I paid $9 on Stub Hub for $10 seats.. Did not save much but these seats are in the first row of the UD right behind home plate so I grabbed them. Main thing is that the regular price of these seats are 10 bucks and I've sat up there before and they are damn good seats. What would it cost to sit in the first row behind home plate in the UD at the cell?

DonnieDarko
05-29-2012, 05:07 PM
I agree, living in Florida I was just curious what the Sox are charging for tickets. We are going to St. Pete tomorrow to see the Sox game and I paid $9 on Stub Hub for $10 seats.. Did not save much but these seats are in the first row of the UD right behind home plate so I grabbed them. Main thing is that the regular price of these seats are 10 bucks and I've sat up there before and they are damn good seats. What would it cost to sit in the first row behind home plate in the UD at the cell?

Not on StubHub, I think it's about...20-something a ticket? On StubHub you can probably find them for less than 20 depending on the matchup.

doublem23
05-29-2012, 05:09 PM
I agree, living in Florida I was just curious what the Sox are charging for tickets. We are going to St. Pete tomorrow to see the Sox game and I paid $9 on Stub Hub for $10 seats.. Did not save much but these seats are in the first row of the UD right behind home plate so I grabbed them. Main thing is that the regular price of these seats are 10 bucks and I've sat up there before and they are damn good seats. What would it cost to sit in the first row behind home plate in the UD at the cell?

Usually around $20-30 depending on date and opponent.

mrfourni
05-29-2012, 05:23 PM
I agree, living in Florida I was just curious what the Sox are charging for tickets. We are going to St. Pete tomorrow to see the Sox game and I paid $9 on Stub Hub for $10 seats.. Did not save much but these seats are in the first row of the UD right behind home plate so I grabbed them. Main thing is that the regular price of these seats are 10 bucks and I've sat up there before and they are damn good seats. What would it cost to sit in the first row behind home plate in the UD at the cell?

For the next homestand+, the premium upper box go from $27 mid week, $31-$32 for weekend and $76 for Cubs

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/ticketing/dynamic_pricing.jsp?c_id=cws&layout=gameflow#date=05/29/2012

I actually don't think that is all that outrageous (minus the Cubs ticket which is a differnt discussion alltogether.) But I do think that the Upper Reserved prices are one place the Sox can make a price adjustment and not upset season ticket holders. Make those tickets $5 for weekday $10 for weekend, make one section alcohol free and call it a day.

RockJock07
05-29-2012, 05:44 PM
I interned with the Milwaukee Brewers during the 2009 season selling season and group tickets. We didn't have dynamic pricing but did charge more for cubs games on an individual purchase basis but not within a package.

Looking at the packages on the White Sox website I was pretty shocked to see per game prices for both the 7 and 14 game plans were the same. That's not what's supposed to happen. The 14 probably comes with more "benefits" but people with to play less per ticket for committing to more games.

As far as the Dymanic Pricing goes that's justs marketing attempt to help drive season ticket sales which is just mine in my book. This allows the Sox rep to cold call you and say "I can help you save money off the gate price by getting them within a package" all the while reminding you why you love the ballpark and the great moments you've seen in person.

RockJock07
05-29-2012, 05:53 PM
About $50 to sit in the bleachers to see the Mariners on Friday. $30 to sit in the worst seats in the park- by the foul pole in the UD.

No way.

While we all want to believe the oppenent matters, it doesn't. It's all supply and demand. It's a Friday night, plain and simple.

While most of us would look other places for tickets the average fan who hates the internet would rather go to the box office and pay whatever the cost is. The Sox probably only had/have 500-100 $30 UD tickets and they can sell them at that cost.

Toronto series are $5/$14 in the UD, what more do people want?

TomBradley72
05-29-2012, 06:05 PM
While we all want to believe the oppenent matters, it doesn't. It's all supply and demand. It's a Friday night, plain and simple.

While most of us would look other places for tickets the average fan who hates the internet would rather go to the box office and pay whatever the cost is. The Sox probably only had/have 500-100 $30 UD tickets and they can sell them at that cost.

Toronto series are $5/$14 in the UD, what more do people want?

Another Friday night w/23,000 in attendance- my point was that's its not a compelling attraction for me as a potential customer- and other than immediately around the infield- they should just sell the rest of the UD at about $15/seat-

salty99
05-29-2012, 06:11 PM
Bottom line: Dynamic ticket pricing was a bad idea when they started it, and still continues to be a bad idea.

ChicagoG19
05-29-2012, 07:11 PM
While we all want to believe the oppenent matters, it doesn't. It's all supply and demand. It's a Friday night, plain and simple.

While most of us would look other places for tickets the average fan who hates the internet would rather go to the box office and pay whatever the cost is. The Sox probably only had/have 500-100 $30 UD tickets and they can sell them at that cost.

Toronto series are $5/$14 in the UD, what more do people want?

I believe these are currently dynamic "deals" and won't be available the day of the day of the game, which is key. If someone can walk up to the box office the day of the game and get a ticket for $5, then that is indeed a very good deal.

ChiSoxGirl
05-29-2012, 09:19 PM
About an hour ago, I looked on whitesox.com for four against the Blue Jays on Friday, July 6 for my annual Girl's Night with three of my friends. One of my friends will only sit on the 100-level, so amidst my search, I was hoping to find some cheaper tickets; not so much. The cheapest lower level tickets I found for that night were for $46.45 each in the outfield; $50.75 if I want tickets from Sec. 117 or 146 toward the foul poles.

According to my calculations, the cheapest way we could get into the ballpark via the White Sox is for $185.80. If we want to sit down either of the lines, it'd set us back $203. If these are the "cheap advanced" prices, I'd hate to see how much these tickets spike the closer we get to July! :o:

chisoxfanatic
05-29-2012, 09:27 PM
About an hour ago, I looked on whitesox.com for four against the Blue Jays on Friday, July 6 for my annual Girl's Night with three of my friends. One of my friends will only sit on the 100-level, so amidst my search, I was hoping to find some cheaper tickets; not so much. The cheapest lower level tickets I found for that night were for $46.45 each in the outfield; $50.75 if I want tickets from Sec. 117 or 146 toward the foul poles.

According to my calculations, the cheapest way we could get into the ballpark via the White Sox is for $185.80. If we want to sit down either of the lines, it'd set us back $203. If these are the "cheap advanced" prices, I'd hate to see how much these tickets spike the closer we get to July! :o:
Would your friends be opposed to going the StubHub route? I'm pulling up 4 tickets in 114 close to the field for slightly less...And, I'm sure StubHub has less fees than TM does.

The prices are sure to spike if the Sox continue playing like this, even though it's not a good idea, since I think cost is a bigger factor than the product on the field.

dickallen15
05-29-2012, 09:40 PM
Would your friends be opposed to going the StubHub route? I'm pulling up 4 tickets in 114 close to the field for slightly less...And, I'm sure StubHub has less fees than TM does.

The prices are sure to spike if the Sox continue playing like this, even though it's not a good idea, since I think cost is a bigger factor than the product on the field.

I agree, the pricing has priced out many.

Check out the prices for Saturday against the terrible Seattle Mariners. It would cost at least $40 to sit upstairs in the infield. Dynamic Pricing is really working against the White Sox right now. You can sit in a premium lower deck box for $90 after fees.

chisoxfanatic
05-29-2012, 09:44 PM
I don't think it's been answered (if it has, please humor me by answering): Do the Sox charge dynamic prices at the ticket window? I know you're getting a deal by not paying TM fees by going to the actual ballpark. But, are there standard or flexible prices at the Comiskey Park ticket booth? If the prices are not dynamic, then couldn't fans just not look on TM and buy tickets right before they enter the ballpark and save cash?

ChiSoxGirl
05-29-2012, 09:48 PM
Places like StubHub and Ticketnow are definite options. I was just looking at the Sox webpage to see what they offered.

ChiSoxFann
05-29-2012, 10:14 PM
I don't think it's been answered (if it has, please humor me by answering): Do the Sox charge dynamic prices at the ticket window? I know you're getting a deal by not paying TM fees by going to the actual ballpark. But, are there standard or flexible prices at the Comiskey Park ticket booth? If the prices are not dynamic, then couldn't fans just not look on TM and buy tickets right before they enter the ballpark and save cash?


The box office does sell at the dynamic price, minus the fees. I would check the prices on Ticketmaster to see what the box office would charge when I used to do walkup. Now it's just StubHub or a promo code for my tickets.

DoItForDanPasqua
05-29-2012, 10:34 PM
Pretty much, not to mention this "Dynamic Pricing" bull**** is the most insulting thing ever. Oh great, the prices only go up! And we have 19,000 people in the park! What a brilliant idea. And then Brooks has the gall to go on the radio and be all like, "bla bla bla Whitesox.com is the only safe place to get your Sox tickets, <under his breath> you ****ing morons," and then I go to the game and I see ads for StubHub as an official partner of the White Sox. I mean, when was the last time anyone got ripped off on StubHub? 2007? GMAB.

I've been to 3 games already, have tickets for 3 games already purchased. All via StubHub. Haven't even come close to paying 50% of the face value yet, and that's even with the ludicrous amount of admin fees StubHub charges (HOW DOES IT COST $10 FOR YOU TO SEND ME AN AUTOMATED EMAIL???? Is Stephen King personally writing each one?)

This post should tell the Sox everything they need to know about their attendance problem. In many cases they are charging double what the free market dictates and that's why Stubhub is so much cheaper. They have failed at the pricing of their tickets.

kevingrt
05-29-2012, 10:44 PM
The box office does sell at the dynamic price, minus the fees. I would check the prices on Ticketmaster to see what the box office would charge when I used to do walkup. Now it's just StubHub or a promo code for my tickets.

Shh....... :angry:

chisoxfanatic
05-29-2012, 11:10 PM
The box office does sell at the dynamic price, minus the fees. I would check the prices on Ticketmaster to see what the box office would charge when I used to do walkup. Now it's just StubHub or a promo code for my tickets.
Now that is just stupid! There should be a reward for purchasing right from the ballpark. And, it should be a SET price. You should be able to look on a board and know how much you're paying instead of being surprised if you didn't look at TM. The Sox are doing all of the wrong things with the way they are handling ticket sales!

Golden Sox
06-01-2012, 12:17 PM
I'm told that the White Sox lost close to 2,500 Season Ticket holders this past off season. Unless my math is bad, thats losing 200,000 tickets sold. I was also told that the White Sox budgeted themselves this year for an attendance of 1.8 million this year. They figured that the attendance wouldn't be that good. This was before the season started. That being the case, I would like to think that if the team continues to win games, they should see somewhat of a bump in their attendance the rest of the year.

DeadMoney
06-01-2012, 12:38 PM
Brooks was on ESPN1000 a bit earlier and said when trying to promote tickets this weekend: "Dynamically priced tickets means the ticket prices are very similar to what you’d find in the secondary market." What secondary markets is he looking at!?

kittle42
06-01-2012, 12:39 PM
Brooks was on ESPN1000 a bit earlier and said when trying to promote tickets this weekend: "Dynamically priced tickets means the ticket prices are very similar to what you’d find in the secondary market." What secondary markets is he looking at!?

They're so full of crap.

ChiSoxFann
06-01-2012, 12:52 PM
Brooks was on ESPN1000 a bit earlier and said when trying to promote tickets this weekend: "Dynamically priced tickets means the ticket prices are very similar to what you’d find in the secondary market." What secondary markets is he looking at!?


He must have done the rounds this morning because I was listening to Eric and Kathy on the drive in to work and he was on their show too, boasting about Fireworks, the Fisk statue and the Southpaw pillow pet giveaways. He said basically the same thing, "Our tickets are dynamically price and comparable to secondary market prices. The best place to buy tickets is whitesox.com." Yeah, no. And MLB has a partnership with StubHub so they are just as safe to buy from as the team.

beasly213
06-01-2012, 01:03 PM
Why can't the Sox just suck it up and admit the Dynamic pricing is a total flop?

Lip Man 1
06-01-2012, 01:04 PM
I don't think you can say that it's just one thing that's driving the attendance issue.

It's a combination of things, some that the Sox simply can't do anything about and others that then can dramatically affect.

The Sox can't do a thing about the location of the park and the Sox can't do a thing about the issues surrounding WCIU-TV and the MLB blackout rules (believe me, they've tried...).

They can do something about how they price tickets, how they market and if they could ever consistently win to build the fan base. (For me it's enough to have a 'winning season' but in this case I mean more along the lines of multiple playoff appearances, either in a row or like five of seven seasons...). I'm not a business person so my impression might be totally wrong but I'd rather have someone sitting in seats, even if they only cost five or 10 bucks, than nobody...which means I get zero income out of it.

I've stated that at this point, the biggest reasons for the Sox slow home attendance are as follows (in no particular order...)

1. They weren't expected to do anything this season. No off season buzz heading into it.

2. Three losing seasons in the past five years. One playoff appearance since 2008. (no consistent stretch of winning)

3. Ozzie's blasts at the fan base the past few years, which rubbed raw a lot of people. (For example, I sent Brooks an e-mail after Ozzie's 'pissing on statue's' comment. It was a week before he got back to me, which is very unusual. Brooks apologized saying he was trying to catch up to all the fans who had written him.)

If they can stay in this thing, I think the fan base will start to respond but if you want to consistently get a large attendance seasonally, the Sox are simply going to have to start consistently winning. The had (in relative terms) a consistent winner (i.e. winning seasons) from 2003 through 2006 capped off by a World Series win...attendance grew over that time period.

It's going to take the same consistent winning / playoff appearances to do that again in my opinion. And the longer the Sox could do that, the greater the buzz and the bigger the number of fans who'll come out. The problem is though that in over 100 years the Sox have NOT been able to consistently win...they are the only one of the original 16 (pre expansion) baseball franchises to have never made the playoffs in back to back years.

That's incredible.

Lip

FielderJones
06-01-2012, 01:09 PM
He said basically the same thing, "Our tickets are dynamically price and comparable to secondary market prices.

Okay Brooks.

Right now, for Tuesday's game against the Jays, which you're promoting as dynamic, there are Stubhub seats in 529 for $18. On the Sox site, best price is $28.45. In 134, Stubhub has seats for $45. Sox site, $69.45.

I don't know what you're comparing, but stop by WSI and give us some more detail about how you're researching the secondary market.

LITTLE NELL
06-01-2012, 01:10 PM
I don't think you can say that it's just one thing that's driving the attendance issue.

It's a combination of things, some that the Sox simply can't do anything about and others that then can dramatically affect.

The Sox can't do a thing about the location of the park and the Sox can't do a thing about the issues surrounding WCIU-TV and the MLB blackout rules (believe me, they've tried...).

They can do something about how they price tickets, how they market and if they could ever consistently win to build the fan base. (For me it's enough to have a 'winning season' but in this case I mean more along the lines of multiple playoff appearances, either in a row or like five of seven seasons...). I'm not a business person so my impression might be totally wrong but I'd rather have someone sitting in seats, even if they only cost five or 10 bucks, than nobody...which means I get zero income out of it.

I've stated that at this point, the biggest reasons for the Sox slow home attendance are as follows (in no particular order...)

1. They weren't expected to do anything this season. No off season buzz heading into it.

2. Three losing seasons in the past five years. One playoff appearance since 2008. (no consistent stretch of winning)

3. Ozzie's blasts at the fan base the past few years, which rubbed raw a lot of people. (For example, I sent Brooks an e-mail after Ozzie's 'pissing on statue's' comment. It was a week before he got back to me, which is very unusual. Brooks apologized saying he was trying to catch up to all the fans who had written him.)

If they can stay in this thing, I think the fan base will start to respond but if you want to consistently get a large attendance seasonally, the Sox are simply going to have to start consistently winning. The had (in relative terms) a consistent winner (i.e. winning seasons) from 2003 through 2006 capped off by a World Series win...attendance grew over that time period.

It's going to take the same consistent winning / playoff appearances to do that again in my opinion. And the longer the Sox could do that, the greater the buzz and the bigger the number of fans who'll come out. The problem is though that in over 100 years the Sox have NOT been able to consistently win...they are the only one of the original 16 (pre expansion) baseball franchises to have never made the playoffs in back to back years.

That's incredible.

Lip

We came close in 1993-94 if not for the strike.

kittle42
06-01-2012, 01:11 PM
Okay Brooks.

Right now, for Tuesday's game against the Jays, which you're promoting as dynamic, there are Stubhub seats in 529 for $18. On the Sox site, best price is $28.45. In 134, Stubhub has seats for $45. Sox site, $69.45.

I don't know what you're comparing, but stop by WSI and give us some more detail about how you're researching the secondary market.

And that doesn't even count Craigslist and brokers, from whom you can often find even better deals, especially on the day of the game when desperation sets in. I bet you I could get a seat in Sec. 146 in the first few rows for $25 cash or less at 3 or 4 p.m. today.

Lorenzo Barcelo
06-01-2012, 01:17 PM
I think the ambiguity of Dynamic Pricing affects the walk up crowd. As discussed in prior posts, not knowing what the price of a ticket will be before heading over to the park can be frustrating. Yes, you can look at what TM is charging online, but that could change by the time you get to the park (even online it says prices are subject to change without notice).

I was fine with the tiered pricing of the past (Charging extra for the Yankees, Cubs, Boston, etc.). I knew what to expect regarding prices. White Sox Fans are likely more price conscious consumers, and I do not think this strategy works for this demographic.

beasly213
06-01-2012, 01:18 PM
And that doesn't even count Craigslist and brokers, from whom you can often find even better deals, especially on the day of the game when desperation sets in. I bet you I could get a seat in Sec. 146 in the first few rows for $25 cash or less at 3 or 4 p.m. today.


Yeah, but to be fair we have to only use stubhub as the main secondary market. Brooks and the Sox keep saying "whitesox.com is the safest place to buy your tickets because it's official." OK well, Stubhub is the "official" partner with MLB. So even with Brooks and The Sox claim that if you buy tickets you have to be kept "safe" the Dynamic pricing isn't close to the "official" secondary market.