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View Full Version : *Official* 5-15 Ohman meltdown, DET 10 SOX 8 Postgamer


Frater Perdurabo
05-15-2012, 05:54 PM
Too bad AJ's 5-5 day was wasted.

amsteel
05-15-2012, 05:55 PM
Eh, I'll take a split with Detroit, regardless of how it comes about.

LITTLE NELL
05-15-2012, 05:56 PM
Eh, I'll take a split with Detroit, regardless of how it comes about.

Yeah but it's another losing homestand, not good.

JB98
05-15-2012, 05:56 PM
The Sox stink, but at least they don't roll over and play dead like the clubs of the last few years.

The Tigers aren't nearly as good as people predicted they would be. They stink just like the rest of this crummy division. They can hit, sure, but their pitching and defense are of second-division quality.

ChiSoxGal85
05-15-2012, 05:56 PM
Nice to see the Sox at least try to battle back. Peavy's been pretty solid up to now and a bad game on occasion will happen. But I think Robin needs to take a hard look at how he uses the bullpen.

Lip Man 1
05-15-2012, 05:57 PM
And just like that you’ve got another losing homestand.

One thing you could always count on from the Sox regardless of how bad they were overall was they’d usually play well enough at home to keep the fans semi-interested. I think they have only had three or four losing records at home since the park opened in 1991 and one of those came last season.

I simply can’t explain what’s happened to this team at home since April 2011.

And what happened today just makes you sick. 12 outs away from an easy win and a sweep of Detroit and they completely implode. That's four games already they’ve lost when taking a lead into the 7th inning or later this year and now this…that’s a lot of wins they are pissing away.

I wonder if Kenny tipped over the postgame spread? LOL.

One other thought, Ohman’s contract is already a sunk cost…with all the young left handers on the roster he needs to be released faster than you can say Jose Paniagua.

Ryan Raburn, a .162 hitter gets four RBI's...incredible.

Lip

Boondock Saint
05-15-2012, 05:57 PM
It's shocking how quickly things went from "Peavy's doing well, and the offense is destroying Scherzer", to "We can't buy an out, and the offense gave up yet again". This team just sucked the joy out of what should have been a statement win.

kevingrt
05-15-2012, 05:58 PM
Did anyone check on Hawk to make sure he is OK and didn't break anything after the telecast went off the air?

soxinem1
05-15-2012, 05:58 PM
Eh, I'll take a split with Detroit, regardless of how it comes about.

When you lose 3-1 or something like that sure.

But when your ace melts down and squanders a 6-0 lead and you throw three bomb HR's in an inning the split is not appreciated.

One other thought, Ohman’s contract is already a sunk cost…with all the young left handers on the roster he needs to be released faster than you can say Jose Paniagua.

Lip

Maybe Juan Agosto is a better analogy.. :D:

thomas35forever
05-15-2012, 05:58 PM
Wish there was more wind to carry it out, but oh well. Should have taken care of business on the pitching end earlier.

shingo10
05-15-2012, 05:59 PM
Wow.

Sucks to be that freaking close to winning on a walkoff...DAMMMIT!

Ugh.

JB98
05-15-2012, 06:00 PM
It's shocking how quickly things went from "Peavy's doing well, and the offense is destroying Scherzer", to "We can't buy an out, and the offense gave up yet again". This team just sucked the joy out of what should have been a statement win.

He was never doing well, though. His stuff was dreadful all afternoon. It was just a matter of time until he got hit, honestly.

The offense didn't give up either.

thomas35forever
05-15-2012, 06:01 PM
That's four games already they’ve lost when taking a lead into the 7th inning or later this year and now this…that’s a lot of wins they are pissing away.

To be fair, they lost it in the 6th inning, but I see your point.

Boondock Saint
05-15-2012, 06:03 PM
He was never doing well, though. His stuff was dreadful all afternoon. It was just a matter of time until he got hit, honestly.

The offense didn't give up either.

I agree that he didn't look great, but up until the 6th, he was throwing a shutout against a dangerous offense. He was effective.

Chez
05-15-2012, 06:04 PM
Didn't see the telecast, but the only reason I can think of for Robin staying with Jake for so long was that the bullpen was taxed last night and he felt he needed to get at least 6 out of his starter.

Ohman is terrible. Bring back Quintana or Stults or Bruney.

JB98
05-15-2012, 06:06 PM
I agree that he didn't look great, but up until the 6th, he was throwing a shutout against a dangerous offense. He was effective.

It was smoke and mirrors, though. He couldn't throw strike one. His breaking ball had no bite. He was trying to survive with his changeup, since his slider was so ineffective. It worked for a couple times through the order, but not a third.

Hawk wants us to believe Peavy let down mentally with a lead. I don't buy it. Jake just stunk today. It happens.

Patrick134
05-15-2012, 06:06 PM
The sox are just 1.5 games back of Detroit, who have last years cy young and they paid Fielder all the Dominos pizza he can eat. The tribe will be a non factor.

slavko
05-15-2012, 06:14 PM
The sox are just 1.5 games back of Detroit, who have last years cy young and they paid Fielder all the Dominos pizza he can eat. The tribe will be a non factor.

I got another non factor for ya. Three guesses and the first two don't count.

Tragg
05-15-2012, 06:14 PM
Peavy was left in too long.

Lip Man 1
05-15-2012, 06:15 PM
Thomas:

I realize that. They've lost four games already where they had the lead in the 7th inning or later plus you had what happened today. Not in the 7th inning or later to be sure, but a game they had won none-the-less.

Put those five games in the win column that they have basically given away and the situation looks completely different.

The Orioles are showing what some luck, early momentum and belief can do, the Sox, if you win those games, could be in the same position. But they didn't...what can you do?

And they way they are playing at home is dreadful, they keep this up by the time I get home for the Allen ceremonies they might have 14 thousand at the games.

Lip

Soxman219
05-15-2012, 06:15 PM
I HATE losses like this. Listened on the radio and I was sure it was a walk-off only for it to be caught. It's so maddening, giving up a six-run lead only to be inches away from a walkoff winner only to lose again. :gah:

This division is so winnable and the Sox are not taking advantage of this opportunity!

Lip Man 1
05-15-2012, 06:23 PM
Soxman says:

"This division is so winnable and the Sox aren't taking advantage of the opportunity..."

You're right but what else is new? I've seen this movie before.

Lip

amsteel
05-15-2012, 06:25 PM
The Tigers aren't nearly as good as people predicted they would be. They stink just like the rest of this crummy division. They can hit, sure, but their pitching and defense are of second-division quality.

Detroit is exactly where they are now as they were 36 games into last season when they won the division by 15 games. I'm sure they'd like to be better but I doubt they're panicking. Every team can blow a 3 run lead like they did last night, not every team can come back from 6 down. They'll be fine.

The Sox are actually 3 games better than they were at this point last year, which unfortunately is still 3 games under.

JB98
05-15-2012, 06:37 PM
Detroit is exactly where they are now as they were 36 games into last season. I'm sure they'd like to be better but I doubt they're panicking. Every team can blow a 3 run lead like they did last night, not every team can come back from 6 down. They'll be fine.

The Sox are actually 3 games better than they were at this point last year, which unfortunately is still 3 games under.

Detroit might slug its way to a title in this weak division, but I'll bet you they don't get 95 wins again.

hawkjt
05-15-2012, 06:38 PM
If you read the Sox game thread on Motown last nite, their fans are ready to trade Avila,and fire Leyland...what nu? Coming into Chicago they were calling Fielder a complete bust also....fans be fans...Tiger or White Sox.

But yes,this was a very painful loss. I agree that Jake just did not have command today,and in the 5th I thought he seemed to have a bit of a hitch on one pitch....was fearing an arm blowout on any pitch. Hope he is healthy.

Still, he left with a lead,albeit one run,and Ohman quickly gave it up. I was hoping that Robin would not let him face Jackson. Ohman,like our other lefties,struggle to throw strikes to leftys,and cannot get righties out...not good. I was hoping that Robin would debut Jesse Crain to get out of that inning with a lead. Would have been huge. Then Ohman would not have still been in there to put another pair on in the next inning to put it out of reach. Ohman stinks. Same with Thornton...two of our most expensive relievers,along with Crain.

It looked like the wind was whipping to left field so that probably held Dayan's last drive in the park in the right corner,right?

Valverde goes down to injury...he was pitching so slowly,it was ridiculous. I started timing him between pitches...it was over 30 seconds on some pitches. Guess he has a lower back stiffness. Big deal. This guy was gettable,too bad he left.

Brutal month since our last home series win. One step forward,one step back. Angels are stinking these days...go out and win a pair,please,and then come home and go to Wrigley and find a way to win a couple. Not too optimistic tho,with the way the Cubs are playing and pitching.

Lip Man 1
05-15-2012, 06:42 PM
Hawk:

So have only one series win at home all season.... and that was the first series they played.

All you can do is shake your head.

Lip

chisoxfanatic
05-15-2012, 06:53 PM
I was following some of this on gamecast from my classroom. We were up 6-0, then I started grading some papers, and when I opened up gamecast again, it was 8-6. I thought my eyes were fooling me. Sucky!

The only positive is that the pitchers pitched so slowly that I was able to easily get into the neighborhood before the Sox traffic spilled out into the streets.

The Immigrant
05-15-2012, 06:55 PM
The worst thing about losses this year is that you know the same ****ing dead horse will get beaten again in the postgame thread.

shingo10
05-15-2012, 07:03 PM
The worst thing about losses this year is that you know the same ****ing dead horse will get beaten again in the postgame thread.

I actually think given the circumstances surrounding this loss, this thread has been for the most part valid and thought provoking. There have been much worse postgame threads to be sure.

DSpivack
05-15-2012, 07:12 PM
The worst thing about losses this year is that you know the same ****ing dead horse will get beaten again in the postgame thread.

:deadhorse:

There ya go. :tongue:

TDog
05-15-2012, 07:51 PM
Peavy was left in too long.

Perhaps, but it took the White Sox six innings of scoreless bullpen work to win Monday night. You really don't know if going to the bullpen earlier today would have yielded a better result.

It's odd that the Tigers and White Sox in Detroit traded games decided by ninth-inning two-run homers and in this two-game series, the White Sox and Tigers traded games decided by leads blown by middle relief after starters with great ERAs had their worst starts of the year.

When you lose as many games as the White Sox have this season with leads in the late innings (while today was a late-middle inning lead, it was still six runs), the problem isn't the offense. Obviously, this was another game the White Sox should have won.

Still, the starters seem good enough and the bullpen arms seem good enough, that the pitching should be better. Maybe the bullpen will come together. In 2007, though, everyone liked the White Sox bullpen in the spring. Baseball Prospectus in predicting a miserable season for the Sox cited the bullpen as a team strength. There was an April WSI thread speculating if that bullpen was the greatest in Sox history. Then things went horribly, horribly wrong. Bullpens are unpredictable, but this bullpen looks like it could be pretty good, especially as Ventura has more experience with it.

Fortunately, this Sox team hasn't dug itself a big hole. This division will probably go to the team that starts to click first and keeps it going the longest. The postseason will probably go to the team with the best pitching. I see no reason to give up on this team.

chisox12
05-15-2012, 07:55 PM
Getting pretty sick of Will Ohman. And Ventura leaving him in too long.

Lip Man 1
05-15-2012, 08:18 PM
The worst thing about losses this year is that you know the same ****ing dead horse will get beaten again in the postgame thread.

Well I guess the answer then is to win ****ing games.

Lip

SI1020
05-15-2012, 08:36 PM
The worst thing about losses this year is that you know the same ****ing dead horse will get beaten again in the postgame thread.

F8fvf6kcFIM&feature=related

October26
05-15-2012, 08:38 PM
Nice to see the Sox at least try to battle back. Peavy's been pretty solid up to now and a bad game on occasion will happen. But I think Robin needs to take a hard look at how he uses the bullpen.

I did not get to watch the game today as I was at work. I'm disappointed to learn that the Sox blew a lead in this game. A couple of Sox fan friends of mine texted me that Viciedo just missed a walk-off homer. Damn.

What did you mean by your comment (bolded) above? Are you speaking about how Robin uses the bullpen in general or specifically how he used it in today's game?

Golden Sox
05-15-2012, 09:34 PM
Why wasn't Crain brought in to face Jackson? I thought Crain was activated today. The White Sox are 4-4 against the Tigers this year. We could of been 6-2 easily. Thornton blew that one game and todays game should of been put in the win column for the White Sox. I know this been beaten to death on these posts, but are the White Sox really going to stick with Beckham and Morel the rest of the season?

SI1020
05-15-2012, 09:45 PM
Why wasn't Crain brought in to face Jackson? I thought Crain was activated today. The White Sox are 4-4 against the Tigers this year. We could of been 6-2 easily. Thornton blew that one game and todays game should of been put in the win column for the White Sox. I know this been beaten to death on these posts, but are the White Sox really going to stick with Beckham and Morel the rest of the season? Who are the alternatives?

kittle42
05-15-2012, 09:46 PM
Who are the alternatives?

Maybe it will be the kids we get for AJ, Peavy, and co.

mzh
05-15-2012, 10:25 PM
Well I guess the answer then is to win ****ing games.

Lip
This team is what it is. There's no sense getting worked up about it. Enjoy the wins, shake off the losses. This team was not built to compete this year.

Whether to trust the organization to execute the process to compete in the future is another story, but right now, it is what it is.

Tragg
05-15-2012, 10:34 PM
Perhaps, but it took the White Sox six innings of scoreless bullpen work to win Monday night. You really don't know if going to the bullpen earlier today would have yielded a better result.

You have to use your pen. They can pitch 2 days in a row. Peavy gave up a single, a double, 2 homers, one hit batsman in the 6th and he still didn't take him out. Finally when he gave up a walk, he took him out. Use the pen.
I don't know what Cooper's doing either. They sort of crowned him king, keeping him around when the manager was fired. Danks stinks, this dog and pony show with Sale. I don't know.
We're blowing games. We are getting good pitching for the most part, any hitter we know can hit is hitting except maybe Ramirez. Detroit's playing poorly. Heck, we probably should be right with Cleveland. Instead, we're closer to the Royals.

ChiSoxGal85
05-15-2012, 11:59 PM
What did you mean by your comment (bolded) above? Are you speaking about how Robin uses the bullpen in general or specifically how he used it in today's game?

I don't know; my comment was rooted more in frustration than logic. :cool: Ohman makes me nuts; he always seems to be in the middle of a bullpen meltdown.

palehozenychicty
05-16-2012, 12:00 AM
Aside from all of the bullpen fiascos, the win was almost pulled out.

I'm not getting too worked up. It's early.

Foulke You
05-16-2012, 12:53 AM
Aside from all of the bullpen fiascos, the win was almost pulled out.

I'm not getting too worked up. It's early.
It helps that I didn't get to see this debacle but I feel the same way. We won a game Monday we shouldn't have won. They won a game today that they shouldn't have won. We walk away even.

As far as the pen goes, I've never liked Ohman against right handers. With his delivery, they just see the ball out of his hand too long and he doesn't have the stuff to compensate for that. As a 2nd or 3rd lefty specialist, he is usually "okay" despite having a bad day today. Just keep him far away from right handed batters. I'm not too worried overall about the pen. Crain is really the key. He is the 8th inning guy to get the ball to Reed. Thornton won't need to be as overtaxed either.

cards press box
05-16-2012, 02:08 AM
The Tigers aren't nearly as good as people predicted they would be. They stink just like the rest of this crummy division. They can hit, sure, but their pitching and defense are of second-division quality.

Absolutely right. The Tigers will win some games like this one where they just club the opposition into submission. But even in this game, they came within a foot or two of an 11-10 loss.

I will say that the Tiger defense has been better than I expected. But it is a long season and Detroit just doesn't look that good.

I simply can’t explain what’s happened to this team at home since April 2011.

Lip

I think that I can. Even with a resurgent Adam Dunn this year and strong offensive years from De Aza and Pierzynski, the Sox offense just has too many holes in it. And it is almost impossible to play well in a homer haven like U.S. Cellular with a substandard and often punchless offense.

Ohman is terrible. Bring back Quintana or Stults or Bruney.

If the Sox are going to be a .500 club or so, they should try to develop their young talent as much as possible. That points to dealing or releasing Ohman and calling up Quintana.

BainesHOF
05-16-2012, 04:45 AM
I've seen enough of Ohman. He needs to go.

Mishandling the pitching staff is becoming a Ventura characteristic.

LITTLE NELL
05-16-2012, 07:16 AM
Well I guess the answer then is to win ****ing games.

Lip

Hey Lip, I think you hit on something there.

LITTLE NELL
05-16-2012, 07:29 AM
This team is what it is. There's no sense getting worked up about it. Enjoy the wins, shake off the losses. This team was not built to compete this year.

Whether to trust the organization to execute the process to compete in the future is another story, but right now, it is what it is.

With our roster the way it is right now I just don't see it as a rebuilding year. The starting lineup does not have one rookie in it, everyone has been around at least one year. With guys like PK, AJ, Dunn, Rios and Alexei it is hardly a rebuilding year. Last years second half lineup is the same except TCQ is missing but he was missing a lot with all his injuries. The starting pitchers are all vets except for Sale and he has a year and a half of MLB experience. The bullpen is the only spot with some kids. This team can compete if it had some production from Morel and Beckham. Viciedo and Alexei will heat up with the weather. Rios is better than last year but considering the money he makes we need some better production from him, he is on a pace for a whopping 4 HRs and 61 RBIs. As far as the pitching our ace has to pick it up, he has been horrible. Thornton needs to pick it up also. Ohman just plain stinks and maybe Santiago can take over his role. If KW must keep Ohman, bring him in as a mop up guy in lost cause games or just to face one LH hitter.

kufram
05-16-2012, 08:30 AM
I was tracking the game from my mobile. 6-0 with Peavy pretty high pitch count went to 8-6 and that was that. I'm not ready to hang myself. Bullpen mismanagement?... easy to call from the sidelines. We have a rookie manager, folks. There are going to be learning curves.

For a team to compete for a division title you have to have all of the components functioning and doing their jobs at the same time. So far we do not have that. The offense wakes up, the bull pen goes to sleep. The starting pitchers are good, the runs don't come to win.

One thing this team does not do is give up, and that cannot be taught or inspired.... it has to be there. I don't think we are the hopeless case others on this site think. I just think it has to come together. The fact that it hasn't yet is not the end of the world. KC beat Texas the day after they beat us.... does that make Texas any less a good team?

Winning actual baseball games in not fantasy baseball... you don't put the right piece in and get the statistically predictable result. It's more fun than that. There are actual human beings involved.

Detroit had an unstoppable inning and Peavy was pitching without all of his weapons available.... that happens a lot more than it doesn't. I think Koufax said that to be a good mlb pitcher you have to know how to win without your best stuff because you don't have your best most of the time.

October26
05-16-2012, 08:58 AM
I don't know; my comment was rooted more in frustration than logic. :cool: Ohman makes me nuts; he always seems to be in the middle of a bullpen meltdown.

I hear ya. I read the Box Score from yesterday's game and learned that Ohman's ERA is now 7.82. Yeesh.

asindc
05-16-2012, 09:27 AM
I hear ya. I read the Box Score from yesterday's game and learned that Ohman's ERA is now 7.82. Yeesh.

I realize Ohman is making more than the minimum, but at this point I would like to see him DFA'ed and bring up a AAAA pitcher in his place. He is terrible, even against lefties at this point. It would be sunk cost, I know, but how much more can the team take? Even if you do it just for RV's peace of mind, it will be well worth it IMO.

doublem23
05-16-2012, 09:35 AM
I actually think given the circumstances surrounding this loss, this thread has been for the most part valid and thought provoking. There have been much worse postgame threads to be sure.

Most of the loss threads have been pretty good. In the last few years, a lot of people had higher expectations for the Sox so the losses were devastating. Now, we all know what this team really is.

Robin and Coop's bullpen management is starting to frustrate me. Hoping they make some strides as this season progresses. I don't think there was anyone in the park who though Ohman should have pitched to Jackson except the two guys calling the shots. ****ing frustrating.

FielderJones
05-16-2012, 03:00 PM
Mishandling the pitching staff is becoming a Ventura characteristic.

Like LaRussa, when Robin finally figures out how to handle a pitching staff he will be fired.

TomBradley72
05-16-2012, 03:42 PM
I'd like to see a more consistent use of the bullpen for the next few weeks now that Crain is back.

Closer- Reed
8th Inning/Set Up- Crain
LHP-7th/8th- Thornton
7th Inning- Jones
LHP-6th/7th- Santiago
LOOGY (Only!)- Ohman
Long Relief- Stewart
Four very young arms in the pen- Ventura will walking a tightrope with 4 "virtual rookies" all year- especially when he hasn't been able to count on his veterans like Crain (injury) and Thornton (performance).

Sale/Humber/Danks and Peavy all used a ton of pitches to get to the 5th/6th inning over the past few games(if that)- would be nice to see the starters get a little deeper into the game.

Viciedo coming on is a big lift to the offense- if he sustains it.