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Frater Perdurabo
05-14-2012, 09:23 PM
Phil Rogers has mentioned several times over the last 7-10 days that the Sox might be interested in acquiring, and Boston might be interested in trading, Kevin Youkilis. Rogers says the ALC is winnable and the Sox have the best rotation in the division. He further argues that adding Youkilis would put butts in seats and give the Sox a better shot at making the playoffs.

I'm not advocating for or against this, but I wanted to take WSI's temperature on this issue.

What say ye?

palehozenychicty
05-14-2012, 09:57 PM
I would be open to him on a short deal. He's been banged up, but when healthy, he has a good eye and hits all over the field. Defense is decent.

He would be a good comeback candidate.

HomeFish
05-14-2012, 10:00 PM
I really, really want to like Kevin Youkilis, because of his absolutely bizarre approach at the plate. But I can't like him as long as he's in Boston. I'd love a reason to cheer for him.

asindc
05-14-2012, 10:19 PM
I would be open to him on a short deal. He's been banged up, but when healthy, he has a good eye and hits all over the field. Defense is decent.

He would be a good comeback candidate.

His defense used to be decent, but now it is subpar, even when healthy. His bat would make up for that, though.

amsteel
05-14-2012, 10:43 PM
I like this idea, not because Youkilis will make the Sox a contender, but mostly because I like Youkilis, and him playing means Morel isn't.

I think I overestimate the 'butts-in-seats' factor of the deal, but Youk definitely has more drawing power than Brent Morel. Although the 13$M pricetag for 2013 is a little discouraging since I don't think he's worth simply a rental. Less discouraging if/when Peavy is off the books and if you can get Boston to chip in something.

Lip Man 1
05-14-2012, 10:48 PM
If the Sox can hang around in this thing, his bat could really help.

Lip

Noneck
05-14-2012, 11:46 PM
A lot would have to happen for this to happen. The Sox would have to start winning and drawing at the gate big time. If they would get him, then they would have to keep Peavy in order to truly compete. Youkilis is a good player but he wont put people in the seats, only the Sox winning will do that.

Tragg
05-15-2012, 12:38 AM
No
He has 1 year left on a $12 mill per contract, that we would clearly buy out for $1 Mill.
Can't keep digging ourselves further into the hole.
Pursue a young third baseman.

Nellie_Fox
05-15-2012, 01:10 AM
Youkilis is the kind of acquisition a team makes when they think he might be the final piece to put them over the top for a championship, not the kind of acquisition a rebuilding team makes.

RCWHITESOX
05-15-2012, 01:45 AM
Youkilis is the kind of acquisition a team makes when they think he might be the final piece to put them over the top for a championship, not the kind of acquisition a rebuilding team makes.

I would take him in a heartbeat. If anyone needs another bat in their lineup it's the Sox. And as many have said here winning puts buts in the seat.

Boondock Saint
05-15-2012, 02:54 AM
Don't like him, don't want him.

Moses_Scurry
05-15-2012, 03:32 AM
I am skeptical that Boston would really trade him. He's been a fixture there for so long. They'd probably want more than the sox should/could give.

dickallen15
05-15-2012, 06:11 AM
His defense used to be decent, but now it is subpar, even when healthy. His bat would make up for that, though.
Really? Do you know since last All Star Break he's hitting .207 with a .645 OPS? He's been on the DL 5 times the past 4 seasons, is 33 years old, and makes $12 million with a $13 million option. He's exactly the player we all have been ripping the White Sox for acquiring.

DumpJerry
05-15-2012, 07:23 AM
Would that mean Tom Brady would be throwing the first pitch? It would be funny if he bounced it......

doublem23
05-15-2012, 07:43 AM
What this team really needs is a guy who can come here and hit .200

Chrisaway
05-15-2012, 07:51 AM
Heard on the score this morning that we'd give up Thornton for him. It'd be a smart money move and "The Greek God of walks" might put a few butts in the seats. I dunno, he's gotta be better than Morel?

asindc
05-15-2012, 08:06 AM
Really? Do you know since last All Star Break he's hitting .207 with a .645 OPS? He's been on the DL 5 times the past 4 seasons, is 33 years old, and makes $12 million with a $13 million option. He's exactly the player we all have been ripping the White Sox for acquiring.

Oh, I wouldn't do the move because of the money, but his poor performance is directly attributable to his injuries. In the few stretches that he has been healthy over the past three seasons, he has produced. Small windows, true, which is the other reason why I wouldn't do it. Even now, though, he would hit better than Morel when (IF) healthy, allowing Morel to go to AAA for seasoning.

hawkjt
05-15-2012, 09:20 AM
I would have preferred taking a shot with a low cost guy like Inge.
As painful as it is, I think they have to just stick with Morel,and hope he pops out of it a la Jolting Joe Crede. Morel has the glove,and just needs to hit .260 to be good enough,and is certainly cheap.

I want to trade Thornton in July to the Yankees or Marlins for good prospects. Everyone needs relievers by July.

CPditka
05-15-2012, 09:49 AM
Youk is now available in my fantasy league, why? Because hes been terrible, Both with the bat and the glove.... and hes on the DL

In real life baseball he makes a ton of money. I would not like this if we gave up anything for him. We need to think long term and continue to build for the future. Aquirring young players. If were going to give up someone like MT, it should be for a young stud, not a guy on the fantasy waiver wire that will dig us in a further payroll hole.

Anything that happens this year is a bonus. We need to build for the future.

sullythered
05-15-2012, 09:54 AM
I would have preferred taking a shot with a low cost guy like Inge.
As painful as it is, I think they have to just stick with Morel,and hope he pops out of it a la Jolting Joe Crede. Morel has the glove,and just needs to hit .260 to be good enough,and is certainly cheap.

I want to trade Thornton in July to the Yankees or Marlins for good prospects. Everyone needs relievers by July.

Crede didn't ever have to "pop out of" anything even remotely as terrible at what Brent Morel is. Crede's worst season (in which he played at least 50 games) is miles better than anything Morel has ever produced. He's not gonna snap out of it. He's terrible.

skobabe8
05-15-2012, 10:38 AM
No thanks.

SCCWS
05-15-2012, 11:10 AM
Heard on the score this morning that we'd give up Thornton for him. It'd be a smart money move and "The Greek God of walks" might put a few butts in the seats. I dunno, he's gotta be better than Morel?

I think that ship already sailed. Boston has added 2 lefty relievers this month so I don't think they would add Thornton as well.

FielderJones
05-15-2012, 11:35 AM
Too old, too injured, too much money. No thanks.

Tragg
05-15-2012, 12:04 PM
Heard on the score this morning that we'd give up Thornton for him. It'd be a smart money move and "The Greek God of walks" might put a few butts in the seats. I dunno, he's gotta be better than Morel?

What we really would be giving up is the young player that we could get if we used Thornton wisely. This is the precise kind of Williams move that has put us in this position.
Package Thornton and Peavy to a good team that needs pitching, and then we should be able to get a player(s) that can help us for several years.

As if Youkalis is going to sell thousands of tickets. Come on.

kittle42
05-15-2012, 12:13 PM
If this team starts getting ideas that it's fighting for something *this* season, I fear we're stuck with the same crap even longer...

Lip Man 1
05-15-2012, 01:51 PM
Kittle:

But what if it turns out come July they actually are still in the race?

What do you do?

Lip

JB98
05-15-2012, 01:56 PM
Kittle:

But what if it turns out come July they actually are still in the race?

What do you do?

Lip

You stay with the plan.

It would be one thing if Youkilis were actually good. I realize he was good in the past, but he is just a combination of injured and bad right now.

I want to acquire players for what they are going to do in the future, not for what they have done in the past.

Even if Youkilis were healthy and playing well, I can't see how his presence would suddenly cause an increase in attendance. I don't know anybody who buys tickets because they want to see Kevin Youkilis.

TDog
05-15-2012, 02:06 PM
Youkilis is the kind of acquisition a team makes when they think he might be the final piece to put them over the top for a championship, not the kind of acquisition a rebuilding team makes.

Are you sure White Sox management believes the team in the latter category rather than the former?

doublem23
05-15-2012, 02:07 PM
Even if Youkilis were healthy and playing well, I can't see how his presence would suddenly cause an increase in attendance. I don't know anybody who buys tickets because they want to see Kevin Youkilis.

Seriously. That's the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard, like people are going come out in droves to watch Kevin Youkilis' epic battle with the Mendoza Line.

The team that wins the AL Central is still probably going to be the #4 (at best) team in the AL Play-offs. No reason to throw everything at 2012. If they're still alive in the race in July, then maybe just stay put with the roster we have and pray we get lucky. But no reason at all to throw everything at 2012.

Foulke You
05-15-2012, 02:13 PM
You stay with the plan.

It would be one thing if Youkilis were actually good. I realize he was good in the past, but he is just a combination of injured and bad right now.

I want to acquire players for what they are going to do in the future, not for what they have done in the past.
Even if Youkilis were healthy and playing well, I can't see how his presence would suddenly cause an increase in attendance. I don't know anybody who buys tickets because they want to see Kevin Youkilis.
This is really the key for me if a deal were to be made. Youkalis was likely playing bad because he was probably playing hurt. If he is healthy and paired up with Dr. Herm, it could be a trade that would give the Sox lineup a much different look. Youkalis might be worth it for the dose of OBP alone. He is also the type of hitter that will make a manager go to his bullpen based on his reputation. It really comes down to how much money Boston eats and who we had to give up. The AL Central looks to be up for grabs this year. Kenny's track record is to go for it when he has a chance. It's a philosophy that I personally have never minded about Kenny but I know not everyone agrees with that.

JB98
05-15-2012, 02:42 PM
This is really the key for me if a deal were to be made. Youkalis was likely playing bad because he was probably playing hurt. If he is healthy and paired up with Dr. Herm, it could be a trade that would give the Sox lineup a much different look. Youkalis might be worth it for the dose of OBP alone. He is also the type of hitter that will make a manager go to his bullpen based on his reputation. It really comes down to how much money Boston eats and who we had to give up. The AL Central looks to be up for grabs this year. Kenny's track record is to go for it when he has a chance. It's a philosophy that I personally have never minded about Kenny but I know not everyone agrees with that.

I don't have a problem with the philosophy -- when it's prudent. To be honest, I believe the Sox are more than just one player away.

One concern I have is that maybe KW doesn't have the temperament or the patience to see a rebuilding/retooling effort through to its conclusion.

RCWHITESOX
05-15-2012, 03:21 PM
What we really would be giving up is the young player that we could get if we used Thornton wisely. This is the precise kind of Williams move that has put us in this position.
Package Thornton and Peavy to a good team that needs pitching, and then we should be able to get a player(s) that can help us for several years.

As if Youkalis is going to sell thousands of tickets. Come on.

Why in the world would you want to trade Peavy? This division is up for grabs. Enough with all the white flag talk.Why trade all your core players for a bunch if prospects who might or not make it to the big leagues
Who wants to sit through several rebuilding seasons? We already have had our share of can't miss prospects.

ChiSoxGal85
05-15-2012, 03:46 PM
I don't have a problem with the philosophy -- when it's prudent. To be honest, I believe the Sox are more than just one player away.

One concern I have is that maybe KW doesn't have the temperament or the patience to see a rebuilding/retooling effort through to its conclusion.

I though JR was the one who has less patience for a rebuild. Didn't he say something along those lines before 2011, the year of "All In"?

Tragg
05-15-2012, 03:48 PM
Why in the world would you want to trade Peavy? This division is up for grabs. Enough with all the white flag talk.Why trade all your core players for a bunch if prospects who might or not make it to the big leagues
Who wants to sit through several rebuilding seasons? We already have had our share of can't miss prospects.
Why? Because we are losing him after this year and we need young players.
We haven't had a can't miss prospect in a decade. (the closest we had was Chris Young - Williams sent him packing for that #1 starter).
You really think this team is a contender?
We don't have to rebuild like the Royals and Pirates because we have more money so we can keep the team competitive. We can sign a few free agents. But chasing 1 year players, more over the hill types when the only decent hitters under 30 are only decent (DeAza and Ramirez) and zero available in the minors is silly.

kittle42
05-15-2012, 03:53 PM
Kittle:

But what if it turns out come July they actually are still in the race?

What do you do?

Lip

I don't think they will be, but unless we're talking 3 games out, you trade everyone.

Domeshot17
05-15-2012, 04:29 PM
I am kind of with a lot of people here. Youk is a guy you get if you have 1 hole. We have 4 players out of the starting 9 hitting less than .230. This is a severely flawed team that is only in it because the division is weak. To mortgage the future and future money for a guy who maybe gets us back to being .500 is not worth it.

sullythered
05-15-2012, 09:15 PM
I am kind of with a lot of people here. Youk is a guy you get if you have 1 hole. We have 4 players out of the starting 9 hitting less than .230. This is a severely flawed team that is only in it because the division is weak. To mortgage the future and future money for a guy who maybe gets us back to being .500 is not worth it.

Yeah, if we are gonna move pitching (which is what Boston would be looking for) I would rather move it for young talent.

WhiteSox5187
05-15-2012, 09:36 PM
Too old, too injured, too much money. No thanks.

Old? Injury prone? Expensive? Sounds like the perfect Kenny Williams acquisition!

Honestly the only reason to trade for Youkilis is if he winds up being a type A free agent.

SCCWS
05-15-2012, 09:37 PM
Yeah, if we are gonna move pitching (which is what Boston would be looking for) I would rather move it for young talent.


Boston's best young talent is at 3rd and SS. Since Youk got hurt, the third-baseman has arrived w a bang............hence the Youk trade talk. I don't see the White Sox getting another SS so I don't think Boston will be a good trade partner. Now the Yankees may have a stud or two.

sullythered
05-15-2012, 10:48 PM
Old? Injury prone? Expensive? Sounds like the perfect Kenny Williams acquisition!

Honestly the only reason to trade for Youkilis is if he winds up being a type A free agent.

Wouldn't we have to offer arbitration for the type A free agent thing to help us?

Foulke You
05-16-2012, 12:08 AM
I am kind of with a lot of people here. Youk is a guy you get if you have 1 hole. We have 4 players out of the starting 9 hitting less than .230. This is a severely flawed team that is only in it because the division is weak. To mortgage the future and future money for a guy who maybe gets us back to being .500 is not worth it.

One of those 4 players (Alexei) has a track record and usually hits when it gets warm. Viciedo is showing a pulse too now that the mercury has risen. Adding a bat may not be as worthless as people think. Youkalis also is a bat that gets on base and makes pitchers work which is a dynamic missing from the bottom of our lineup.

DSpivack
05-16-2012, 12:24 AM
Wouldn't we have to offer arbitration for the type A free agent thing to help us?

That arbitration and draft pick compensation has been changed with the new CBA, IIRC, to discourage teams from gaming the system like that to receive draft picks from in-season trades.

Foulke You
05-16-2012, 12:34 AM
I don't have a problem with the philosophy -- when it's prudent. To be honest, I believe the Sox are more than just one player away.

One concern I have is that maybe KW doesn't have the temperament or the patience to see a rebuilding/retooling effort through to its conclusion.

I don't believe Kenny views it as a rebuild and neither do I really. Retooling is a better word but this team still has a pricey veteran contending core of Konerko, Dunn, AJ, Peavy, and Rios. Kenny should operate as a buyer until his core team proves him otherwise. I'm not suggesting moving young players but I wouldn't necessarily blame him for trying to add a piece to this team early if he sees a flaw. Don't forget, two wild cards are sitting there along with an open division this year. 85 wins might make the postseason. (Although, it may just buy you one extra game) Some of these 3-2, and 2-1 losses could be decided by one guy. If a low cost move to replace our light hitting young 3B (now with bulging discs) comes around, who am I to be critical of Kenny? Now, if you are sitting 8 games behind Detroit come July 31, then by all means you trade Peavy, Thornton, etc. for as many prospects as you can.

DirtySox
05-16-2012, 05:40 AM
That arbitration and draft pick compensation has been changed with the new CBA, IIRC, to discourage teams from gaming the system like that to receive draft picks from in-season trades.

Correct. They need to have Youkilis under team control for an entire season to be eligible for draft pick compensation.

gobears1987
05-16-2012, 07:14 AM
Youkilis has always been one of my favorites. I'd take him in a heartbeat.

DumpJerry
05-16-2012, 07:42 AM
Youkilis has always been one of my favorites. I'd take him in a heartbeat.
I hear Koufax is available, too.

Lip Man 1
05-16-2012, 10:43 AM
Koufax could probably still get a guy or two out...unlike Ohman.

Lip

DSpivack
05-16-2012, 01:16 PM
I hear Koufax is available, too.

As long as we're at it, I wouldn't mind Ryan Braun and Ian Kinsler, either.

And maybe Scott Feldman could replace Ohman.

DumpJerry
05-16-2012, 01:37 PM
As long as we're at it, I wouldn't mind Ryan Braun and Ian Kinsler, either.

And maybe Scott Feldman could replace Ohman.
.......now if we could only find the next Hank Greenberg......

palehozenychicty
05-17-2012, 03:02 AM
I don't believe Kenny views it as a rebuild and neither do I really. Retooling is a better word but this team still has a pricey veteran contending core of Konerko, Dunn, AJ, Peavy, and Rios. Kenny should operate as a buyer until his core team proves him otherwise. I'm not suggesting moving young players but I wouldn't necessarily blame him for trying to add a piece to this team early if he sees a flaw. Don't forget, two wild cards are sitting there along with an open division this year. 85 wins might make the postseason. (Although, it may just buy you one extra game) Some of these 3-2, and 2-1 losses could be decided by one guy. If a low cost move to replace our light hitting young 3B (now with bulging discs) comes around, who am I to be critical of Kenny? Now, if you are sitting 8 games behind Detroit come July 31, then by all means you trade Peavy, Thornton, etc. for as many prospects as you can.

Even if you make the postseason with 85 wins, I seriously doubt this team is built to win it all. When 3-4 players can barely hit their weight, you are not winning a World Series.

TheVulture
05-18-2012, 11:56 PM
When 3-4 players can barely hit their weight, you are not winning a World Series.

You are if they are heavy enough.

palehozenychicty
05-20-2012, 12:00 AM
You are if they are heavy enough.

Ha! That's funny.

CoopaLoop
05-21-2012, 01:22 AM
ITT I learned Youkilis sucks and 33 is too old to be productive. Ok then.

I think it's a wee bit early to say Youk's done. He was 258/373 last year and 317/411 the year before.

Now I don't think the Sox need to be trading the limited assets they have for this guy, but he is clearly a huge upgrade over our available options at 3rd.

Boondock Saint
05-21-2012, 05:59 AM
ITT I learned Youkilis sucks and 33 is too old to be productive. Ok then.

I think it's a wee bit early to say Youk's done. He was 258/373 last year and 317/411 the year before.

Now I don't think the Sox need to be trading the limited assets they have for this guy, but he is clearly a huge upgrade over our available options at 3rd.

He is hitting .219 with only 9 RBI this season on a team with the second most RBI in baseball. He used to be a huge upgrade over what we have now. Massive, massive difference.

TomBradley72
05-21-2012, 08:37 AM
.......now if we could only find the next Hank Greenberg......

I'd settle for the next Herbert "The Milkman" Perry

Thome25
05-21-2012, 11:41 AM
You are if they are heavy enough.

:thumbsup::lol:

CoopaLoop
05-21-2012, 06:39 PM
He is hitting .219 with only 9 RBI this season on a team with the second most RBI in baseball. He used to be a huge upgrade over what we have now. Massive, massive difference.

He has 64 at bats in 18 games. Sample size.

Tragg
05-22-2012, 06:10 PM
He has 64 at bats in 18 games. Sample size.

But his 2011, while a lot better than what we are getting, was significantly below his 2010 production as well. Trends at age 32 and 33.

I wouldn't have any real objection to Thornton straight up. But Williams won't do that - he'll throw in more prospects.

Golden Sox
05-22-2012, 10:04 PM
Boston just signed Scotty Pods. I take it there hurting for outfielders. Would Boston want Alex Rios in exchange for Youkilis?

DSpivack
05-22-2012, 10:43 PM
Boston just signed Scotty Pods. I take it there hurting for outfielders. Would Boston want Alex Rios in exchange for Youkilis?

I'd rather keep Rios.

cws05champ
05-23-2012, 11:41 AM
I'd rather keep Rios.

And you would be wrong...getting rid of Rios massive contract for the next 2+ years and getting a semi productive player back at a position we need who comes off the books after this year. Sign me up.

doublem23
05-23-2012, 11:44 AM
And you would be wrong...getting rid of Rios massive contract for the next 2+ years and getting a semi productive player back at a position we need who comes off the books after this year. Sign me up.

Yeah. If anyone wants to take Alex off our hands, I'd volunteer to drive him to the airport.

DSpivack
05-23-2012, 12:29 PM
Yeah. If anyone wants to take Alex off our hands, I'd volunteer to drive him to the airport.

And you would be wrong...getting rid of Rios massive contract for the next 2+ years and getting a semi productive player back at a position we need who comes off the books after this year. Sign me up.

You're right. I forgot that Youkilis' contract was up after this season.

JB98
05-23-2012, 12:34 PM
And you would be wrong...getting rid of Rios massive contract for the next 2+ years and getting a semi productive player back at a position we need who comes off the books after this year. Sign me up.

Yeah, that would be a great move for the White Sox. Boston has been experimenting with Adrian Gonzalez in the outfield. The Red Sox might be sufficiently desperate to make a move. Who knows?

I've been against this whole pursue Youkilis movement. I don't think his acquisition would make the Sox contenders. But if you can get some money off the books for 2013-14 by dealing one bad contract for another, then pull the trigger.

palehozenychicty
05-23-2012, 10:32 PM
Yeah, that would be a great move for the White Sox. Boston has been experimenting with Adrian Gonzalez in the outfield. The Red Sox might be sufficiently desperate to make a move. Who knows?

I've been against this whole pursue Youkilis movement. I don't think his acquisition would make the Sox contenders. But if you can get some money off the books for 2013-14 by dealing one bad contract for another, then pull the trigger.

Exactly. The Sox need to make creative deals like this if available.

palehozenychicty
05-23-2012, 10:34 PM
Yeah, that would be a great move for the White Sox. Boston has been experimenting with Adrian Gonzalez in the outfield. The Red Sox might be sufficiently desperate to make a move. Who knows?

I've been against this whole pursue Youkilis movement. I don't think his acquisition would make the Sox contenders. But if you can get some money off the books for 2013-14 by dealing one bad contract for another, then pull the trigger.

Exactly. The Sox need to make creative deals like this if available. Plus, it affects a premiere league competitor's budget flexibility. Rios played with the Jays, so he knows the division.

If it happens, then wow!

Tragg
05-28-2012, 01:19 PM
And you would be wrong...getting rid of Rios massive contract for the next 2+ years and getting a semi productive player back at a position we need who comes off the books after this year. Sign me up.

Who do you have in mind for RF? Fukudome's a bigger hole than Morel. This would make our team worse. Hopefully, Hudson can be adequate at 3B....260 and .330 obp would be fine.
Use our resources to bring in young players, please.

all*star quentin
06-01-2012, 10:43 PM
CBS Sports
Sounds like the Red Sox are ready to move 3rd baseman Youkilis. That Boston is telling other teams around the league that their 33 year old is available. Same report says that the White Sox and the Dodgers have looked at Youkilis, he makes $12 million this year with a $1 million buyout for next season.

soxinem1
06-02-2012, 06:07 PM
Heard on the score this morning that we'd give up Thornton for him. It'd be a smart money move and "The Greek God of walks" might put a few butts in the seats. I dunno, he's gotta be better than Morel?

I wonder why they call him the 'Greek God of Walks'? He's Jewish.

Although, I could imagine Hawk calling his first White Sox HR: 'Youk Gotta Be Bleepin' Me!!'

slavko
06-02-2012, 06:14 PM
I wonder why they call him the 'Greek God of Walks'? He's Jewish.

Although, I could imagine Hawk calling his first White Sox HR: 'Youk Gotta Be Bleepin' Me!!'

Billy Beane game him the name. Youkilis sounds Greek-ish and Billy made an assumption. That's what I assume Billy did.:cool:

A. Cavatica
06-02-2012, 06:22 PM
Pursue Youk?

No, pursue Middlebrooks.

BleacherBandit
06-02-2012, 06:24 PM
Billy Beane game him the name. Youkilis sounds Greek-ish and Billy made an assumption. That's what I assume Billy did.:cool:

Apparently he has family from Greece. You can be Greek and Jewish.

Anyway, we need some talent at third if we want to contend this season. Hudson has looked awkward at third despite some flashy plays. That throw from AJ today almost cost them the game.

Youkilis isn't having a good season, but he obviously can be productive. I say it shouldn't be crossed-off as a possibility if he is indeed being shopped.

Nellie_Fox
06-03-2012, 12:53 AM
I wonder why they call him the 'Greek God of Walks'? He's Jewish.Greek is a nationality. Jewish is a religion.

doublem23
06-03-2012, 08:39 AM
Greek is a nationality. Jewish is a religion.

Jewish can be a nationality as well, though, not in Youk's case.

DSpivack
06-03-2012, 10:00 AM
Jewish can be a nationality as well, though, not in Youk's case.

No, nationality refers to what nation from which one comes. The vast majority of WSI posters are American, being from the United States of America. There is no corresponding nation to describe oneself as Jewish. Ethnicity can come in to play but Jews come from many ethnicities; the most common, especially in this country, being Ashkenazi Jews originally from central and eastern Europe; Sephardic Jews from around the Mediterranean; and Mizrahi Jews from around the Middle East.

Youkilis' family name was originally Weiner, and they hailed from Romania. One of his ancestors moved from Romania to Greece to escape the army draft (Jews were drafted, Greeks were not), became homesick and moved back, but kept a Greek name to avoid the draft, adopting the name Youkilis. Interestingly enough, one ancestor was a rumrunner in 1920s, working with Al Capone and Edgar Bronfman, between the US and Canada to pay for enough of the family to settle in Cincinatti.*

Stories like that are not uncommon. My own ancestors escaped the Russian army draft, a 25-year sentence, to come to this country in the 1890s.

*http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/the_bonus/10/19/bonus.youkilis/

doublem23
06-03-2012, 10:34 AM
No, nationality refers to what nation from which one comes. The vast majority of WSI posters are American, being from the United States of America. There is no corresponding nation to describe oneself as Jewish. Ethnicity can come in to play but Jews come from many ethnicities; the most common, especially in this country, being Ashkenazi Jews originally from central and eastern Europe; Sephardic Jews from around the Mediterranean; and Mizrahi Jews from around the Middle East

You are confusing the terms "nation" with "state." A nation is a collection of people who share a common ancestry, language, culture, etc. regardless of location. The state is the physical, boundaried section of the world. The two usually related but not necessarily redundant. For example, my nationality of ancestry on my father's side is German, despite the fact that neither of his parents were actually born in Germany at the time, nor are their birthplaces located in Germany today. Likewise, there is no Kurdish state, but no one would argue there is no such thing as a Kurdish nationality. The term "Jewish" can refer to a person's ethnicity, nationality, or religion.

I know it's Wikipedia, but this should answer your questions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish

soxinem1
06-03-2012, 10:38 AM
I know it's Wikipedia, but this should answer your questions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish

Not to jump off topic, but I have read several times that Wikipedia is more accurate than the on-line Merriam-Webster Encyclopedia.

DSpivack
06-03-2012, 10:56 AM
You are confusing the terms "nation" with "state." A nation is a collection of people who share a common ancestry, language, culture, etc. regardless of location. The state is the physical, boundaried section of the world. The two usually related but not necessarily redundant. For example, my nationality of ancestry on my father's side is German, despite the fact that neither of his parents were actually born in Germany at the time, nor are their birthplaces located in Germany today. Likewise, there is no Kurdish state, but no one would argue there is no such thing as a Kurdish nationality. The term "Jewish" can refer to a person's ethnicity, nationality, or religion.

I know it's Wikipedia, but this should answer your questions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish

When they first camed to this country, border agents asked what nationality Youkilis' ancestors were. They answered Romanian, not Jewish. When my ancestors first came to this country, they listed their various nationalities (Russian and Austrian, as they came from the two empires), not Jewish. Jews come from many cultures and speak many languages; there is no unifying language besides the biblical hebrew (as opposed to the spoken Hebrew that has become resurgent in the last ~150 years). There are many cultural languages specific to Jews, be it Yiddish, Ladino, or others.

And again, there is no one Jewish ethnicity. American Jews are mostly Ashkenazi, whereas Israeli Jews are mostly Sephardim/Mizrahim (the two overlap and are often conflated for one another).

doublem23
06-03-2012, 11:06 AM
When they first camed to this country, border agents asked what nationality Youkilis' ancestors were. They answered Romanian, not Jewish. When my ancestors first came to this country, they listed their various nationalities (Russian and Austrian, as they came from the two empires), not Jewish.

And again, there is no one Jewish ethnicity. American Jews are mostly Ashkenazi, whereas Israeli Jews are mostly Sephardim/Mizrahim (the two overlap and are often conflated for one another).

OK, this is all fine and I'm sure true, but again, if you talk to any reputable sociologist they will tell you that the term "Jewish" can refer to a person's nationality. That's just a fact. I really don't know how else to explain this. Likewise, my grandparents aren't from Germany, yet they're both 100% German.

As to your second point, the existence of sub-groups doesn't invalidate the larger collection. Some Italians will tell you they are Sicilian. Some Germans will say they are Bavarian. Some Americans will say they are Texan. That doesn't mean there's no such thing as a shared Italian, German, or American nationality. It just means there are smaller, distinctive groups within the larger.

DSpivack
06-03-2012, 11:17 AM
OK, this is all fine and I'm sure true, but again, if you talk to any reputable sociologist they will tell you that the term "Jewish" can refer to a person's nationality. That's just a fact. I really don't know how else to explain this. Likewise, my grandparents aren't from Germany, yet they're both 100% German.

As to your second point, the existence of sub-groups doesn't invalidate the larger collection. Some Italians will tell you they are Sicilian. Some Germans will say they are Bavarian. Some Americans will say they are Texan. That doesn't mean there's no such thing as a shared Italian, German, or American nationality. It just means there are smaller, distinctive groups within the larger.

The idea that there is a general agreement on what Jews are, beyond a religion--ethnicity, nationality, whatever--is laughable. It's an idea that's been debated for hundreds of years, if not more. Whether Jews are a nationality or not is left up to debate, as we are doing. That it's a complicated issue is without question: What is a nation? Is it a shared language group? Jews have no such language, besides for religious, ceremonial purposes. Is it a shared culture? There is no one common culture. Is it a shared religion? That's the only real common bind tying Jews together. But religion alone does not make a nation.

There is no one Jewish ethnicity. That's without debate; it's not a question of groups and subgroups, as would be the case with Bavarian Germans or Sudeten Germans or Swiss Germans or Austrian Germans; Jews come from much broader swath of ethnicities, despite being much fewer in number. Ashkenazi Jews, who make up the majority of Jews in this country, do not belong to the same ethnicity as Sephardim/Mizrahim, who are the majority of Jews in Israel. And that's not mentioning Jews from what is now Ethiopia, or Indian Jews, or the Kaifeng Jews from China.

doublem23
06-03-2012, 11:29 AM
The idea that there is a general agreement on what Jews are, beyond a religion--ethnicity, nationality, whatever--is laughable. It's an idea that's been debated for hundreds of years, if not more. Whether Jews are a nationality or not is left up to debate, as we are doing. That it's a complicated issue is without question: What is a nation? Is it a shared language group? Jews have no such language, besides for religious, ceremonial purposes. Is it a shared culture? There is no one common culture. Is it a shared religion? That's the only real common bind tying Jews together. But religion alone does not make a nation.

There is no one Jewish ethnicity. That's without debate; it's not a question of groups and subgroups, as would be the case with Bavarian Germans or Sudeten Germans or Swiss Germans or Austrian Germans; Jews come from much broader swath of ethnicities, despite being much fewer in number. Ashkenazi Jews, who make up the majority of Jews in this country, do not belong to the same ethnicity as Sephardim/Mizrahim, who are the majority of Jews in Israel. And that's not mentioning Jews from what is now Ethiopia, or Indian Jews, or the Kaifeng Jews from China.

Seriously, whatever, I really don't give a ****, I'm not trying to say that the science or art of classifying hundreds of thousands of years of human ancestry, culture, and migration is neat and will fit every single person into a nice little box, I'm merely informing you of what is the standard, accepted definitions of the term are. If you want to believe there is no such thing as a Jewish nationality because Kevin Youkilis's grandparents declared themselves Romanian when they emigrated to Greece 100 years ago or whenever, that's fine. People smarter than both you and I will disagree with you on that, though.

DSpivack
06-03-2012, 11:36 AM
Seriously, whatever, I really don't give a ****, I'm not trying to say that the science or art of classifying hundreds of thousands of years of human ancestry, culture, and migration is neat and will fit every single person into a nice little box, I'm merely informing you of what is the standard, accepted definitions of the term are. If you want to believe there is no such thing as a Jewish nationality because Kevin Youkilis's grandparents declared themselves Romanian when they emigrated to Greece 100 years ago or whenever, that's fine. People smarter than both you and I will disagree with you on that, though.

That's my point--that while there might be standard definitions of a nation (and I doubt that somewhat, as that's a rather vague thing to define)--whether or not Jews fit within those definitions is left up to quite a bit of debate. Ever since the second Temple was destroyed ~2000 years ago, Jews have scattered across the globe. Since then, defining who is a Jew is a very complicated idea (despite having two Jewish parents, I would have some difficulty if I wanted to move to Israel in "proving" that I was a Jew). And that doesn't even bring up the even more complicated issue of ethnicity.

sullythered
06-03-2012, 01:54 PM
Where in the holy hell has this thread gone? I thought I was clicking to find out if there was any new info on the Youkilis front... Guess not.

soxinem1
06-03-2012, 03:40 PM
Where in the holy hell has this thread gone? I thought I was clicking to find out if there was any new info on the Youkilis front... Guess not.

I started it. I'm guilty.

CoopaLoop
06-04-2012, 12:02 AM
Since Youk has come back he has raised his average from .219 to .253, his OBP from .292 to .324 and his slugging from .344 to .414

DSpivack
06-04-2012, 12:10 AM
Since Youk has come back he has raised his average from .219 to .253, his OBP from .292 to .324 and his slugging from .344 to .414

Interesting. With Middlebrooks there Boston doesn't need him. And with his salary, I'm hoping Boston doesn't ask for much back. If the Sox are going to be a real legit contender in the long run this season, 3B seems like the only glaring hole right now.

CaptUSN
06-04-2012, 10:07 AM
Thoughts of him being brought to bring some hittng to 3rd base?

Cangelosi CF
06-04-2012, 10:14 AM
Thoughts of him being brought to bring some hittng to 3rd base? K Dub doesn't have much to offer in exchange.

hawkjt
06-04-2012, 10:52 AM
Adding Youk today would cost 9 million in payroll this year. He makes 12 million,so the Sox would be picking up 2/3rds of that,and then a 1 million dollar buyout at the end of the year.
That would be a pricey gamble.
Would the Red Sox take Matt Thornton for him?
Thornton's departure would defray the salary hit a bit,but then again, bullpen depth is always a concern down the stretch of the season.

Honestly, I do not think this would be a bad trade for the Red Sox,who cannot expect to get much for Youk,who is a rental. And Thornton was an allstar last year.
As for the White Sox, the money seems prohibitive..but maybe the Red Sox could chip in a couple million to ease that pain,and bring the net impact down to 3 million or so,with Thornton's money figured in.

Cangelosi CF
06-04-2012, 11:47 AM
I'm leery of trading a competent lefty relief arm for a rental 3B.

beasly213
06-04-2012, 11:54 AM
I'm leery of trading a competent lefty relief arm for a rental 3B.


I'm not. I'm never leery of trading any bull pen arm not named Mariano Rivera.

Bull Pen's seem to be a huge roll of the dice every year. You never know what's going to happen with them as a whole. While with every day players you have a pretty good idea of what you're going to get.

#1swisher
06-04-2012, 12:09 PM
Cherington said that the only trade talks involving Youkilis are ones started by other teams,
but if Youk were to move Phillies, Dodgers and Dbacks most interested.


NESN

Report: Likely to Land With Phillies, Dodgers or Diamondbacks

http://www.nesn.com/2012/06/report-kevin-youkilis-likely-to-land-with-phillies-dodgers-or-diamondbacks.html

doublem23
06-04-2012, 12:36 PM
I'm leery of trading a competent lefty relief arm for a rental 3B.

I'm not. I'm never leery of trading any bull pen arm not named Mariano Rivera.

Bull Pen's seem to be a huge roll of the dice every year. You never know what's going to happen with them as a whole. While with every day players you have a pretty good idea of what you're going to get.

I can see it both ways, as Thornton has been more than just a flash in the pan bullpen pitcher, he's been legitimately good for several years now. That kind of consistency is hard to find in a reliever.

That said, he is 35 years old and has been trending downward. And if there's one thing the Sox have a surplus of, it is LHP in the bullpen.

SephClone89
06-04-2012, 12:48 PM
I can see it both ways, as Thornton has been more than just a flash in the pan bullpen pitcher, he's been legitimately good for several years now. That kind of consistency is hard to find in a reliever.

That said, he is 35 years old and has been trending downward. And if there's one thing the Sox have a surplus of, it is LHP in the bullpen.

Well said. It does bother me that Sox fans are disparaging one of the greatest Sox relievers ever.

DSpivack
06-04-2012, 12:52 PM
Well said. It does bother me that Sox fans are disparaging one of the greatest Sox relievers ever.

He has been great for the Sox, I just don't know how much he can give going forward, and if we can get an upgrade at 3B for him, I'd consider doing that.

Tragg
06-04-2012, 03:04 PM
He has been great for the Sox, I just don't know how much he can give going forward, and if we can get an upgrade at 3B for him, I'd consider doing that.

Straight up for Youkalis, fine.

DrCrawdad
06-04-2012, 08:25 PM
No.

I believe Morel is going to start hitting better and he's a better defensive 3rd baseman.

Foulke You
06-05-2012, 04:07 PM
Well said. It does bother me that Sox fans are disparaging one of the greatest Sox relievers ever.
Such is the life of a middle reliever unfortunately. When you do your job well, nobody notices. When you screw up, you're a bum. My feeling on Thornton is that he is still a valuable bullpen piece and a quality lefty. He just isn't as dominating as he once was. We were spoiled all those years by that nice and easy 97-98mph he once had.

CoopaLoop
06-07-2012, 10:48 PM
When Danks comes back, if it were on the table would you do Floyd for Youk straight up? Money is somewhat close, I think within 3 million.

I sure would.

Taliesinrk
06-10-2012, 07:34 PM
When Danks comes back, if it were on the table would you do Floyd for Youk straight up? Money is somewhat close, I think within 3 million.

I sure would.

I don't know. The 2 things that I think may scare the Sox out of that deal are:

1. With Humber (and Floyd) struggling so much lately, it would be difficult to lose an arm in the rotation. If the Sox deal Floyd (who granted isn't throwing well), move Quintana into the rotation, and then Humber continues to throw up a 6+ ERA (with no other options to replace him... it's not like Stewart has given us any confidence), the Sox could be in trouble.

2. I don't know what the current thoughts of the organization are, but I know a fair number of people that would be wary of putting 3 lefties in a 5-man rotation.

#1swisher
06-14-2012, 01:14 PM
Jon Heyman

unfavorable scouting reports make trading youk difficult for now. but he needs to go in july.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/19352327/unfavorable-recent-scouting-reports-may-delay-deal-for-youkilis-who-should-be-traded

CoopaLoop
06-14-2012, 11:51 PM
I retract all statements about going after Youkilis. He just may be too old and injured.

soxnut1018
06-22-2012, 08:59 PM
Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN
A handful of teams involved in Youkilis talks; one official involved believes that White Sox might be best positioned for a deal.

JB98
06-22-2012, 10:10 PM
Despite the offensive struggles lately, I'm still opposed to this idea. I believe Youkilis is done.

central44
06-23-2012, 07:55 AM
Despite the offensive struggles lately, I'm still opposed to this idea. I believe Youkilis is done.

I wouldn't give up a lot for him at this point, but i'd welcome him if it's a trade like the 2009 deal that sent Thome to the Dodgers so he had a chance to win.

If Boston feels as though he won't play much and is willing to take on some salary and a guy like Thornton or some mediocre prospects (which I guess is all we really have but anyway) to do right by him, I think it would be a great low risk, high reward move for the Sox.

If Boston demands a lot in return, then forget that, not worth mortgaging the future over.

#1swisher
06-23-2012, 10:26 AM
Ken Rosenthal
Red Sox have engaged in heavy talks with ‪ (https://twitter.com/search/%23WhiteSox)White Sox on Youkilis; Dodgers remain in mix.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/kevin-youkilis-boston-red-sox-will-be-traded-soon-062212

Buster Olney
A handful of teams involved in Youkilis talks; one official involved believes that White Sox might be best positioned for a deal.

hawkjt
06-23-2012, 11:37 AM
This is a real gamble and a tough call on Youk.

He is 33. Older,but not ancient. He was very good only a year or so ago. Did he lose it all that fast?

He was 4 of 10 in his last 3 games with a .500 oba...that was thru Wed. when they sat him for good,so can he catch fire?

I was listening to a Red Sox telecast and the announcers on MLB think he is pretty much done and that the REd Sox should be looking to just dump his salary. So, I do not want the Sox to give up much.

Ohman and a minor leaguer for Youk or
Thornton straight up for Youk with some salary relief,like 1 million towards Youks 7 million left for this year.

If they go with Ohman,then the Sox will have to absorb at least 5.5 million more on this year payroll.

If they did the deal for Matt with 1 million thrown in the Sox absorb about 3.5 million.

If you bring him in,what do you do with Hudson? Cut him? Probably.
Otherwise,send down Danks,but then you are weak in the outfield,altho Lilly can handle it maybe.

DSpivack
06-23-2012, 11:41 AM
This is a real gamble and a tough call on Youk.

He is 33. Older,but not ancient. He was very good only a year or so ago. Did he lose it all that fast?

He was 4 of 10 in his last 3 games with a .500 oba...that was thru Wed. when they sat him for good,so can he catch fire?

I was listening to a Red Sox telecast and the announcers on MLB think he is pretty much done and that the REd Sox should be looking to just dump his salary. So, I do not want the Sox to give up much.

Ohman and a minor leaguer for Youk or
Thornton straight up for Youk with some salary relief,like 1 million towards Youks 7 million left for this year.

If they go with Ohman,then the Sox will have to absorb at least 5.5 million more on this year payroll.

If they did the deal for Matt with 1 million thrown in the Sox absorb about 3.5 million.

If you bring him in,what do you do with Hudson? Cut him? Probably.
Otherwise,send down Danks,but then you are weak in the outfield,altho Lilly can handle it maybe.

Cutting Hudson would seem the obvious move.

dickallen15
06-23-2012, 11:57 AM
This is a real gamble and a tough call on Youk.

He is 33. Older,but not ancient. He was very good only a year or so ago. Did he lose it all that fast?

He was 4 of 10 in his last 3 games with a .500 oba...that was thru Wed. when they sat him for good,so can he catch fire?

I was listening to a Red Sox telecast and the announcers on MLB think he is pretty much done and that the REd Sox should be looking to just dump his salary. So, I do not want the Sox to give up much.

Ohman and a minor leaguer for Youk or
Thornton straight up for Youk with some salary relief,like 1 million towards Youks 7 million left for this year.

If they go with Ohman,then the Sox will have to absorb at least 5.5 million more on this year payroll.


If they did the deal for Matt with 1 million thrown in the Sox absorb about 3.5 million.

If you bring him in,what do you do with Hudson? Cut him? Probably.
Otherwise,send down Danks,but then you are weak in the outfield,altho Lilly can handle it maybe.

He hurt his thumb in August 2010 and hasn't been the same. He also has back issues and supposedly third base was wearing him down. Whoever acquires him is going to have to pick up very little money. There isn't much interest in him and the Red Sox are probably looking at having to release him soon with Ellsbury and Crawford returning. They are going to take what they can get. What I read is they are hoping for a B-/C+ prospect.

Soxman219
06-23-2012, 04:18 PM
Saw at the gym that the Sox are going hard for Youk. I'd do it, maybe all he needs is an environment change. Reports outta Boston say he's VERY unhappy right now with Valentine. Being traded maybe sparks his interest to play better.

RCWHITESOX
06-23-2012, 06:48 PM
He is at this time the best available 3B If the Sox can get him at a reasonable price; then go for it. Lord knows they have nothing going at 3B now.

chisoxfanatic
06-23-2012, 07:17 PM
Someone posted this on Facebook a few hours ago:

RUMOR: Kevin Youkilis & Cash Considerations traded to White Sox for Matt Thornton & PTBNL

sox1970
06-23-2012, 07:42 PM
Someone posted this on Facebook a few hours ago:

Fake rumor. Not true.

guillensdisciple
06-23-2012, 09:54 PM
Fake rumor. Not true.

For sure fake, but I'd take that.

slavko
06-23-2012, 10:59 PM
Don't want him. Can't play anymore and a pain-in-the-ass besides. A way to get rid of Thornton and his $$? Then I'd consider it.

keloms
06-23-2012, 11:33 PM
From Ken Rosenthal

Source: #RedSox talks with #WhiteSox over Youkilis more advanced than with other clubs, could be approaching final stages.

Deal between #RedSox and #WhiteSox not a certainty. Youkilis' past physical issues will make exchange of medical records critical.

Tragg
06-24-2012, 12:20 AM
Williams has all the leverage here. the Red Sox don't need him, he is woefully overpaid, and is having a terrible year.
Please, no legitimate prospects for another declining veteran. Thornton straight up - no more.

palehozenychicty
06-24-2012, 12:50 AM
Williams has all the leverage here. the Red Sox don't need him, he is woefully overpaid, and is having a terrible year.
Please, no legitimate prospects for another declining veteran. Thornton straight up - no more.

I don't think you can get any more even than this proposal. A diminished, but rejuvenated Youkilis is an improvement at third base. He still has a good approach at the plate. That will always bring value to a lineup.

hawkjt
06-24-2012, 01:31 AM
Youk had 4 hits in his last 10 at bats and walked twice also so maybe,just maybe,he is getting healthier. I know it is a longshot,but he has said he is ready and willing to play,and wants to play,so maybe if he gets out of Valentine jail,he will be rejuvenated.

I agree that straight up for Thornton is very fair for the Red Sox.
Bullpen pitching is always valuable,if only for reserve over the long season.
I wish they would take Ohman.

BigHurt3515
06-24-2012, 01:42 AM
I am kind of nervous for Ohman and Santiago to be our lefties we go to late in games.

SCCWS
06-24-2012, 09:09 AM
Let's clarify a few things:

Can't play anymore and a pain-in-the-ass besides

He is not playing because the young 3rd baseman brought up when he was injured is averaging close to an RBI per game and hitting a ton. Youk is considered a great guy in the clubhouse and he has 2 rings.

I know it is a longshot,but he has said he is ready and willing to play,and wants to play,so maybe if he gets out of Valentine jail,he will be rejuvenated

See above. He is a veteran who lost his job to the Red Sox top minor league prospect. I don't think Valentine has a choice especially since the Red Sox are trying to get back in the AL race.

A diminished, but rejuvenated Youkilis is an improvement at third base.
Offensively at least. He is a mediocre 3rd baseman but Hudson is no wiz either.

I think Youkilis will bounce back offensively whereever he goes. He does have a Fenway bat so the power numbers won't be there. But he always has been a solid hitter, usually in the 3rd-5th spot. If anything happened to Dunn, great insurance as a DH or a back-up for Paulie as well. As long as you are giving up the minimum, definitely worth the chance.

Foulke You
06-24-2012, 09:18 AM
I don't think you can get any more even than this proposal. A diminished, but rejuvenated Youkilis is an improvement at third base. He still has a good approach at the plate. That will always bring value to a lineup.

Exactly. Even a past his prime Youkalis is better production than what we have been getting out of 3B this year. We have to be last in the AL in offensive production from that position. The approach thing is worth mentioning again. The Sox have an extremely aggressive lineup. Adding a guy who is known for his OBP would definitely be a good thing for our lineup.

eastchicagosoxfan
06-24-2012, 09:42 AM
If Youk can hit .220, tha's a .60 point increase over Hudson. As long as his defense is adequate, acquiring Youk makes sense.

hawkjt
06-24-2012, 10:14 AM
Rosenthal says the Red Sox will eat 5 of 8 million left on Youk's deal for this year.
White,the baseball writer for USAToday said this morning on the Score, that the Red Sox will want bullpen pitching that can help them now.
That has to mean Thornton...or in my dreams,Ohman. Please,let it Ohman.
Still if it is Thornton,then the money is basically a wash,with the Sox not taking on any real additional salary.

Youk is in the Red Sox lineup today(surprising) so not sure what to make of it. Could it be a sentimental one last goodbye for Youk at Fenway,and they are willing to risk injury,or are they hoping he ups his value with a big day, or playing hard to get?

Bucky F. Dent
06-24-2012, 11:12 AM
What would we do with Hudson? DFA?

DSpivack
06-24-2012, 11:28 AM
What would we do with Hudson? DFA?

Fine with me.

hawkjt
06-24-2012, 11:32 AM
Boston writer on the Score right now says that the Red Sox would prefer to trade Youk out of the AL but might still end up dealing with AL teams like the Sox. Says that they would also prefer a starter if possible.
Stewart for Youk? Do it.

SBSoxFan
06-24-2012, 01:02 PM
Boston writer on the Score right now says that the Red Sox would prefer to trade Youk out of the AL but might still end up dealing with AL teams like the Sox. Says that they would also prefer a starter if possible.
Stewart for Youk? Do it.

You have a broad definition of "starter." :D:

Tragg
06-24-2012, 01:07 PM
The other problems is that our bullpen is shaky. Thornton isn't what he was, but he's still one of our better arms there.
And I certainly don't want a single legitimate prospect to be traded for a declining veteran.

slavko
06-24-2012, 01:13 PM
How much did Griffey, Manny, Omar, a gaggle of Alomars, etc help us? That's how much Eucalyptus is likely to help us.

SBSoxFan
06-24-2012, 01:15 PM
The other problems is that our bullpen is shaky. Thornton isn't what he was, but he's still one of our better arms there.
And I certainly don't want a single legitimate prospect to be traded for a declining veteran.

Agreed. I don't understand why people are so anxious to get rid of Thornton. It seems some of his recent ineffectiveness is more due to being overused than to being finished.

Thome25
06-24-2012, 01:25 PM
Boston writer on the Score right now says that the Red Sox would prefer to trade Youk out of the AL but might still end up dealing with AL teams like the Sox. Says that they would also prefer a starter if possible.
Stewart for Youk? Do it.

If they think they're getting a starter of any value for a Kevin Youkilis that is mostly all used up then they're ****ed in the head.

Thome25
06-24-2012, 01:26 PM
How much did Griffey, Manny, Omar, a gaggle of Alomars, etc help us? That's how much Eucalyptus is likely to help us.

Name a 3B currently on the roster or in the White Sox minor league system that is better than Kevin Youkilis in his current state?

That's right. There isn't one.

Boondock Saint
06-24-2012, 02:31 PM
Name a 3B currently on the roster or in the White Sox minor league system that is better than Kevin Youkilis in his current state?

That's right. There isn't one.

Youkilis isn't better than any of our guys either, though. He certainly isn't worth giving up prospects or any of our current players for.

BigHurt3515
06-24-2012, 03:35 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/06/kevin-youkilis-rumors-sunday.html

Youkilis was taken out in the 7th inning to a standing ovation

MtGrnwdSoxFan
06-24-2012, 03:36 PM
How much did Griffey, Manny, Omar, a gaggle of Alomars, etc help us? That's how much Eucalyptus is likely to help us.

We likely don't win the Blackout game without Griffey.

Youkilis doesn't exactly set my world on fire, but who else could we possibly get? Keep Hudson and his >.200 average?

I'd be fine with trading Ohman (or preferably Stewart) for him.

WhiteSox5187
06-24-2012, 03:40 PM
Jon Heyman is reporting on Twitter that a deal for Youk is in the works, late talks involved the White Sox but a new team is not yet confirmed.

ChiSoxGal85
06-24-2012, 03:49 PM
Many reports of Zach Stewart's start for AAA scratched for tonight. Youk for Stewart??

Brian26
06-24-2012, 03:49 PM
Hawk says it's either us or Pittsburgh.

balke
06-24-2012, 03:50 PM
Hawk says it's us or Pittsburgh.

Edit: oudrawn by Brian26

BigHurt3515
06-24-2012, 03:51 PM
Rob Bradford of WEEI.com tweets that a clubhouse source says Youkilis has been traded to the White Sox and his nameplate has been removed from his locker.

Boondock Saint
06-24-2012, 03:51 PM
mlbtraderumors says it's us. Take it with a grain of salt.

SBSoxFan
06-24-2012, 03:51 PM
Is Thornton still in the Sox' pen?

WhiteSox5187
06-24-2012, 03:53 PM
Heyman is saying that is not the Dodgers or Indians and likely the White Sox.

balke
06-24-2012, 03:53 PM
Rob Bradford of WEEI.com tweets that a clubhouse source says Youkilis has been traded to the White Sox and his nameplate has been removed from his locker.


Well... wonder what we gave up now. MLBTradrumors says the deal is rumored to have Boston paying 5 of the 8 million. Makes me think a player is going back. Thornton?

thomas35forever
06-24-2012, 03:53 PM
Multiple tweets are saying it's us.

WhiteSox5187
06-24-2012, 03:54 PM
Heyman is saying we got Youkilis now citing "multiple source."

Boondock Saint
06-24-2012, 03:58 PM
Being reported as official now.

Damn it.

pmck003
06-24-2012, 03:58 PM
Ult and pitcher:

https://twitter.com/JimBowdenESPNxm/status/216997825110740992rding

WhiteSox5187
06-24-2012, 03:58 PM
Being reported as official now.

Damn it.

Who did we give up?

balke
06-24-2012, 03:59 PM
Ult and pitcher:

https://twitter.com/JimBowdenESPNxm/status/216997825110740992rding


does this mean utility player and pitcher?

Edit - hot link busted but saw it is bowden. Utility and pitcher - can't be Hudson if he's in right?

Guessing Thornton and Escobar.

Boondock Saint
06-24-2012, 04:00 PM
Who did we give up?

Beats me. My guess is "Too much".

EMachine10
06-24-2012, 04:00 PM
does this mean utility player and pitcher?
Yes, it should.

BigHurt3515
06-24-2012, 04:00 PM
Stewart and Lilly? or Escobar?

DonnieDarko
06-24-2012, 04:00 PM
Beats me. My guess is "Too much".

My guess is Thronton and Lillibridge.

SBSoxFan
06-24-2012, 04:01 PM
does this mean utility player and pitcher?

I was wondering that too. The link didn't even work. Or has news of the Youklis trade brought down twitter?

RockJock07
06-24-2012, 04:01 PM
My guess is Thronton and Lillibridge.

I think that is pretty fair

Boondock Saint
06-24-2012, 04:02 PM
My guess is Thronton and Lillibridge.

My preference is Ohman and Southpaw.

Brian26
06-24-2012, 04:02 PM
Beats me. My guess is "Too much".

...as Hudson pops up with the game winning run 90 feet away.

WhiteSox5187
06-24-2012, 04:02 PM
My guess is Thronton and Lillibridge.

I figured that Lillibridge would be gone either way, Danks can serve as the fourth outfielder and Hudson or Escobar could be the backup infielder.

pmck003
06-24-2012, 04:02 PM
New link, says utility player:

https://twitter.com/JimBowdenESPNxm/status/216998442944303104

WisSoxFan
06-24-2012, 04:02 PM
Can't be Lillibridge if he's currently DHing, yes?

ChiSoxGal85
06-24-2012, 04:03 PM
I'm guessing Stewart and maybe Lillibridge.

Sockinchisox
06-24-2012, 04:03 PM
One is definitely Stewart, he was pulled from starting for Charlotte tonight. Escobar most likely the other as Lillibridge just PR.

Brian26
06-24-2012, 04:04 PM
Can't be Lillibridge if he's currently DHing, yes?

The trade probably won't be official until the game is over.

Brian26
06-24-2012, 04:05 PM
One is definitely Stewart, he was pulled from starting for Charlotte tonight. Escobar most likely the other as Lillibridge just PR.

Doesn't matter. What if this game goes 20 innings and Escobar needs to play in inning 18?

Boondock Saint
06-24-2012, 04:05 PM
...as Hudson pops up with the game winning run 90 feet away.

Hudson's futility doesn't make Youkilis any better.

balke
06-24-2012, 04:05 PM
One is definitely Stewart, he was pulled from starting for Charlotte tonight. Escobar most likely the other as Lillibridge just PR.


Nice - I can live with this for sure. Stewart needs to figure it out - arm isn't bad but just gets rocked. He's only 24 right?

sullythered
06-24-2012, 04:06 PM
Beats me. My guess is "Too much".

Do you just not like the guy personally, or something? I mean, even as a declining player, he is clearly a better option than anything we currently have.

WhiteSox5187
06-24-2012, 04:06 PM
...as Hudson pops up with the game winning run 90 feet away.

Youkilis isn't as big of a risk as some of Kenny's recent high priced aging veteran acquisitions of late as Youkilis is at least a free agent at the end of the year. Depending on who we gave up it might be an okay move. I doubt that Youk could be any worse at third than who we have.

keloms
06-24-2012, 04:06 PM
Kaplan says Zach Stewart is definitely one of them and utility player is still unknown.

WisSoxFan
06-24-2012, 04:08 PM
If it's Stewart and Escobar or Lillibridge then I think it's a good move. Can we now say that Williams turned Edwin Jackson into Youkilis. :tongue:

RockJock07
06-24-2012, 04:08 PM
3B was/is a blackhole, nuff said.

Boondock Saint
06-24-2012, 04:08 PM
Do you just not like the guy personally, or something? I mean, even as a declining player, he is clearly a better option than anything we currently have.

I've never hidden that I don't like him, and a .225 average isn't clearly better than anything. It damn sure isn't worth trading for, as if he's going to fix our offensive problems.

balke
06-24-2012, 04:09 PM
Hudson's futility doesn't make Youkilis any better.

The Sox will now have a third baseman playing third base. Worth a shot at this point. Best case Youk settles in and gives 20 hr power with a batting average .285 or above. Worst case, he sucks for a bit, his back goes bad and Hudson is still here.

sullythered
06-24-2012, 04:10 PM
a .225 average isn't clearly better than anything.

Uh, yes it is. It's clearly better than a .170 batting average.

Boondock Saint
06-24-2012, 04:11 PM
The Sox will now have a third baseman playing third base. Worth a shot at this point. Best case Youk settles in and gives 20 hr power with a batting average .285 or above. Worst case, he sucks for a bit, his back goes bad and Hudson is still here.

...and our farm system becomes even more depleted.

SBSoxFan
06-24-2012, 04:12 PM
Doesn't matter. What if this game goes 20 innings and Escobar needs to play in inning 18?

I don't think he'd play if he's been traded. What if he got hurt? Is the deal off then?

MtGrnwdSoxFan
06-24-2012, 04:12 PM
I've never hidden that I don't like him, and a .225 average isn't clearly better than anything. It damn sure isn't worth trading for, as if he's going to fix our offensive problems.

Even for a guy who had ONE good start in two-plus years here?

You don't have to like the deal, but at least acknowledge that he's better than any options available to us. It's not like there's a glut of 3B available.

...and our farm system becomes even more depleted.

If you think trading Zach Stewart (who was the definition of "useless") depletes our farm system, then you have it set in your mind that you just hate the guy and will do anything to justify your hate.

RockJock07
06-24-2012, 04:12 PM
I've never hidden that I don't like him, and a .225 average isn't clearly better than anything. It damn sure isn't worth trading for, as if he's going to fix our offensive problems.

:scratch: Kenny can't catch a break with some of you. I guess he was supposed to sit by and watch the crappy Indians and underachieving Tigers win a division.

EMachine10
06-24-2012, 04:12 PM
...and our farm system becomes even more depleted.
I don't think you should miss Zach Stewart that much.

SBSoxFan
06-24-2012, 04:13 PM
:scratch: Kenny can't catch a break with some of you. I guess he was supposed to sit by and watch the crappy Indians and underachieving Tigers win a division.

Sox are tied for first. Why mess with things?

WhiteSox5187
06-24-2012, 04:14 PM
The Sox will now have a third baseman playing third base. Worth a shot at this point. Best case Youk settles in and gives 20 hr power with a batting average .285 or above. Worst case, he sucks for a bit, his back goes bad and Hudson is still here.

I think that Youkilis' natural position is first base but he is at least as good as Hudson and probably a little bit better and if he sucks then he walks at the end of the year. If we didn't give up too much it's probably a good trade.

Boondock Saint
06-24-2012, 04:14 PM
Even for a guy who had ONE good start in two-plus years here?

You don't have to like the deal, but at least acknowledge that he's better than any options available to us. It's not like there's a glut of 3B available.

I don't care who it was for-the man sucks at baseball right now, and it's stupid to trade anything for him.

balke
06-24-2012, 04:14 PM
...and our farm system becomes even more depleted.

I guess. Too busy trying to win a pennant to worry about Zach Stewart's future. Sox haven't really been outspoken about supporting Zach to my knowledge. I don't think they like his prospects as a future major league piece.

Boondock Saint
06-24-2012, 04:15 PM
I don't think you should miss Zach Stewart that much.

I don't/won't. But he could have been used as a piece for a much better trade than this.

sullythered
06-24-2012, 04:16 PM
I don't/won't. But he could have been used as a piece for a much better trade than this.

No he couldn't have. He is awful.

DonnieDarko
06-24-2012, 04:17 PM
No he couldn't have.

This. I have no problem with this trade...assuming that the piece the White Sox gave up from the team was Lillibridge and not Escobar.

Brian26
06-24-2012, 04:17 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=134810

arKnaD7
06-24-2012, 04:17 PM
Stewart and Lillibridge via Jon Heyman's twitter

https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS/status/217003190242123776