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View Full Version : Sale Officially Back in Rotation


kevingrt
05-11-2012, 04:43 PM
Per @chrisrongey on twitter...

Sale is back in the starting rotation.

He will start tomorrow.

DonnieDarko
05-11-2012, 04:43 PM
Per @chrisrongey on twitter...

Sale is back in the starting rotation.

Cool. Now when's his next start?

Crestani
05-11-2012, 04:44 PM
Kenny Williams has spoken...!!!

kevingrt
05-11-2012, 04:44 PM
Cool. Now when's his next start?

Tomorrow...

WhiteSox5187
05-11-2012, 04:49 PM
The White Sox are a poorly run organization.

asindc
05-11-2012, 04:49 PM
Well, now that we've had the carping, let the caterwauling commence...

LITTLE NELL
05-11-2012, 04:50 PM
What a soap opera this was.

Corlose 15
05-11-2012, 04:54 PM
Well, I'm glad they could take him out so I could see Dylan Axelrod start on Sunday in Detroit.

kevingrt
05-11-2012, 04:56 PM
Still don't understand why the four of them (Herm, Coop, Robin, and KW) cannot talk this over and come to a joint decision? Why not skip a start and say:

"Sale is experiencing some unusual soreness so we are going to get him an MRI. He is not injured but this is his first full season as a MLB starter so we are taking the necessary precautions for his long-term health."

Wouldn't that have worked? Wouldn't us Sox fans be satisfied? Why throw him in the pen for two days? I am so, so confused.

mzh
05-11-2012, 04:58 PM
The White Sox are a poorly run organization.
The sky is blue.

samurai_sox
05-11-2012, 05:02 PM
The White Sox are a poorly run organization.

Yup.

Harry Chappas
05-11-2012, 05:12 PM
Well, now that we've had the carping, let the caterwauling commence...

I'll start. VERY happy Sale is back in the rotation! I'm assuming his MRI was good.

Now for the "caterwauling" - are you ******* me? Since we can only guess as to how this thing shook out, here's what I've come up with:

- Cooper wanted Sale in the bullpen all along. According to Cowley (I know, I know), it was the one thing he and Ozzie agreed on last year. Cooper's ego is exploding. I can't think of a single pitching coach (or any coach) in all of MLB that is as visible as Coop.

- Sale reports a little soreness, Cooper freaks out and leans on his in-over-his-head manager who of course agrees with Cooper because, well, he has ZERO experience managing a baseball team. Ventura states publicly that he doubted Sale would return to the rotation. Cooper talks about "preserving his career" yada, yada, yada...and Sale is like "Huh?"

- Sale, his agent, and Kenny are fuming. Sale wants to start, knows he isn't hurt and Kenny desperately needs Sale to succeed as a starter for obvious reasons. Sale's agent knows Sale's value is diminished as a bullpen guy.

- Kenny tells Cooper and Ventura, if his MRI is clear - he's starting. End of story and please SHUT UP!

At the end of the day, no harm, no foul. However, I think it makes Ventura look like a fool and a puppet.

DirtySox
05-11-2012, 05:22 PM
Good.

And this:

The White Sox are a poorly run organization.

doublem23
05-11-2012, 05:23 PM
The White Sox are a poorly run organization.

Didn't the Red Sox just do the same thing?

Harry Chappas
05-11-2012, 05:25 PM
Didn't the Red Sox just do the same thing?

After the Theo/Francona ordeal, I don't think the Red Sox are still viewed as a model franchise.

ElevenUp
05-11-2012, 05:26 PM
I'm assuming his MRI was WNL. This entire episode has been thoroughly confusing.

WhiteSox5187
05-11-2012, 05:35 PM
Didn't the Red Sox just do the same thing?

After the Theo/Francona ordeal, I don't think the Red Sox are still viewed as a model franchise.

Yea, right now the Red Sox are one of the most dysfunctional organizations in baseball. I don't know if they are as dysfuntional as the White Sox maybe they are more dysfunctional. It's close

Frontman
05-11-2012, 05:42 PM
The White Sox are a poorly run organization.

No joke. Hard to believe that Ozzie gains a bit of credibility now.

doublem23
05-11-2012, 05:42 PM
Yea, right now the Red Sox are one of the most dysfunctional organizations in baseball. I don't know if they are as dysfuntional as the White Sox maybe they are more dysfunctional. It's close

Luckily no one gets extra points for perceived functionality

DumpJerry
05-11-2012, 05:49 PM
- Cooper wanted Sale in the bullpen all along. According to Cowley (I know, I know), it was the one thing he and Ozzie agreed on last year. Cooper's ego is exploding. I can't think of a single pitching coach (or any coach) in all of MLB that is as visible as Coop.

Because of the nature of the job, many pitching coaches wield a lot more power than any other coach on a team. Some have more power than the Manager.

KyWhiSoxFan
05-11-2012, 05:51 PM
I clearly have no idea what I've been looking at, because Addison Reed has been the obvious closer for months,.

Whey they want Sale there and taking him out of the rotation, or making Santiago the closer, or giving Thornton a chance, or even at some point saying Ohman was being considered is just plain goofy.

ElevenUp
05-11-2012, 06:05 PM
I clearly have no idea what I've been looking at, because Addison Reed has been the obvious closer for months,.

Whey they want Sale there and taking him out of the rotation, or making Santiago the closer, or giving Thornton a chance, or even at some point saying Ohman was being considered is just plain goofy.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Reed has looked like a beast. Let him finish.

DirtySox
05-11-2012, 06:16 PM
Scot Gregor ‏ @scotgregor
Sale on talking his way back to rotation: "The way that meeting went down today was awesome"

Scot Gregor ‏ @scotgregor
Sale: " I just felt it was time to stand up for what I believed in."

cheezheadsoxfan
05-11-2012, 06:21 PM
I've always been a big fan of Coop but it does seem appear that he is getting a little full of himself.

asindc
05-11-2012, 06:21 PM
I'll start. VERY happy Sale is back in the rotation! I'm assuming his MRI was good.

Now for the "caterwauling" - are you ******* me? Since we can only guess as to how this thing shook out, here's what I've come up with:

- Cooper wanted Sale in the bullpen all along. According to Cowley (I know, I know), it was the one thing he and Ozzie agreed on last year. Cooper's ego is exploding. I can't think of a single pitching coach (or any coach) in all of MLB that is as visible as Coop.

- Sale reports a little soreness, Cooper freaks out and leans on his in-over-his-head manager who of course agrees with Cooper because, well, he has ZERO experience managing a baseball team. Ventura states publicly that he doubted Sale would return to the rotation. Cooper talks about "preserving his career" yada, yada, yada...and Sale is like "Huh?"

- Sale, his agent, and Kenny are fuming. Sale wants to start, knows he isn't hurt and Kenny desperately needs Sale to succeed as a starter for obvious reasons. Sale's agent knows Sale's value is diminished as a bullpen guy.

- Kenny tells Cooper and Ventura, if his MRI is clear - he's starting. End of story and please SHUT UP!

At the end of the day, no harm, no foul. However, I think it makes Ventura look like a fool and a puppet.

No, I am not ****tin you. I don't consider your post to be caterwauling, since you acknowledge that you are guessing here, as we all are. Your speculation is very plausible, IMO. I do have a question for you though: If you keep everything and everyone in place, except that the Sox traded KW to Texas for Jon Daniels just before the season started, do you think your scenario would change any?

KMcMahon817
05-11-2012, 06:24 PM
The White Sox are a poorly run organization.

I am not in support of how this whole ordeal went down, but there are some extenuating circumstances here. Robin is a first year manager, and for all we know, he totally botched the communication of the decision. I do think their plan was to move Sale to the BP for the time being, and re-evaluate when his arm felt better. It definitely could have been handled better, but what is done is done. The right decision, in the end, was made. Let's move forward and be happy that our stud is where he should be; starting every 5th day.

Not gunna lie, I am super psyched to see Sale back in rotation.

BainesHOF
05-11-2012, 06:35 PM
Cooper is the new Ozzie. That's not a good thing. It's especially ridiculous considering he's a pitching coach.

Crestani
05-11-2012, 06:45 PM
I've always been a big fan of Coop but it does seem appear that he is getting a little full of himself.


You Think..??

doublem23
05-11-2012, 06:47 PM
Cooper is the new Ozzie. That's not a good thing. It's especially ridiculous considering he's a pitching coach.

Yes but unlike Ozzie, Cooper knows what the hell he is doing.

sox1970
05-11-2012, 06:51 PM
There's a lot of spin going on with Kenny and Coop now. They blew it. They know it.

If Sale needs to be shut down, or backed off, it will be the DL next time. As it should have been last week.

SI1020
05-11-2012, 07:01 PM
Well, now that we've had the carping, let the caterwauling commence... I don't know you of course but you impress me FWIW as being pretty bright. You think this bizarre incident is indicative of a well run ship?

SI1020
05-11-2012, 07:03 PM
Still don't understand why the four of them (Herm, Coop, Robin, and KW) cannot talk this over and come to a joint decision? Why not skip a start and say:

"Sale is experiencing some unusual soreness so we are going to get him an MRI. He is not injured but this is his first full season as a MLB starter so we are taking the necessary precautions for his long-term health."

Wouldn't that have worked? Wouldn't us Sox fans be satisfied? Why throw him in the pen for two days? I am so, so confused. So am I.

TaylorStSox
05-11-2012, 07:04 PM
So, basically, they skipped a start, got him in a real game instead of throwing a towel, saw how he felt, got an MRI done and cleared him to start. Oh the humanity!

Frontman
05-11-2012, 07:06 PM
There's a lot of spin going on with Kenny and Coop now. They blew it. They know it.

If Sale needs to be shut down, or backed off, it will be the DL next time. As it should have been last week.

That's really my concern here now. Kenny put his foot down, and if Sale goes out there and blows out his arm. Who's going to take the heat then?

asindc
05-11-2012, 07:13 PM
I don't know you of course but you impress me FWIW as being pretty bright. You think this bizarre incident is indicative of a well run ship?

No, I don't think this was handled well, mainly because it seems our inexperienced manager did a poor job of communicating it to the press. I do think, however, these kinds of disagreements happen in every organization, no matter how well run they are. As I noted before, other organizations have moved young pitchers back and forth between the rotation and the bullpen before eventually settling on a role for the player. It is a practice that has been done for a long time. In this case, the big mistake was giving information that conflicted with their actions. But as Harry Chappas said, no harm, no foul.

asindc
05-11-2012, 07:15 PM
That's really my concern here now. Kenny put his foot down, and if Sale goes out there and blows out his arm. Who's going to take the heat then?

If he blows out his arm, I would be more upset if they had ignored any warning signs instead of clumsily trying to be cautious with him.

Frontman
05-11-2012, 07:18 PM
If he blows out his arm, I would be more upset if they had ignored any warning signs instead of clumsily trying to be cautious with him.

There is that. All of them will look foolish if it happens. Coop, Robin, and Kenny.

soxinem1
05-11-2012, 07:36 PM
Kenny Williams has spoken...!!!

It sounds more like Sale spoke up for himself.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/19018650/chris-sale-returns-to-rotation-saturday

No, I don't think this was handled well, mainly because it seems our inexperienced manager did a poor job of communicating it to the press. I do think, however, these kinds of disagreements happen in every organization, no matter how well run they are. As I noted before, other organizations have moved young pitchers back and forth between the rotation and the bullpen before eventually settling on a role for the player. It is a practice that has been done for a long time. In this case, the big mistake was giving information that conflicted with their actions. But as Harry Chappas said, no harm, no foul.

Very true, however this was one of the rare occasions that the move took place NOT because of performance. Sale was great as a starter. Most of the time those moves happen when a guy is 0-4 with a 6.30 ERA or something like that, which was not the case with Sale.

While many are concerned in the long run about his mechanics, I think bouncing around might have a worse effect.

Lip Man 1
05-11-2012, 07:59 PM
Agreed that this happens all the time to different organizations.

The problem became when different folks started speaking to the press and not giving the same consistent message.

That led to a lot of fans and media wondering who was calling the shots and what was going on.

It should have been kept behind closed doors rather than Robin, Cooper, Sale and Sale's agent all speaking and saying different things.

Lip

Frontman
05-11-2012, 08:01 PM
Agreed that this happens all the time to different organizations.

The problem became when different folks started speaking to the press and not giving the same consistent message.

That led to a lot of fans and media wondering who was calling the shots and what was going on.

It should have been kept behind closed doors rather than Robin, Cooper, Sale and Sale's agent all speaking and saying different things.

Lip

I think Kenny needs to pull Robin/Coop/Sale all into his office and set the tone of how things need to move forward (if he hasn't done so already.) Too much he said this/no he said that garbage out of the Sox the past two weeks.

kevingrt
05-11-2012, 09:24 PM
So, basically, they skipped a start, got him in a real game instead of throwing a towel, saw how he felt, got an MRI done and cleared him to start. Oh the humanity!

You're telling me this past week has went smoothly in the White Sox organization?

MtGrnwdSoxFan
05-11-2012, 09:47 PM
You're telling me this past week has went smoothly in the White Sox organization?

Yeah, don't you know the whole "move a young starter to the bullpen, claim elbow soreness and that the move is permanent, said starter complains about being moved and says he's fine, organization wants him to take a precautionary MRI, pitcher's agent gets involved, and finally, after a week and one relief appearance, he gets moved back into the rotation" thing happens all the time?

spawn
05-11-2012, 09:52 PM
So, basically, they skipped a start, got him in a real game instead of throwing a towel, saw how he felt, got an MRI done and cleared him to start. Oh the humanity!
Yeah, I'm not too overly bothered by it to be honest. :shrug:

MtGrnwdSoxFan
05-11-2012, 09:54 PM
Yeah, I'm not too overly bothered by it to be honest. :shrug:

It's not the end result that bothers me, it's the long and dysfunctional road that led to it that did.

Tragg
05-11-2012, 09:58 PM
There's a lot of spin going on with Kenny and Coop now. They blew it. They know it.

If Sale needs to be shut down, or backed off, it will be the DL next time. As it should have been last week.

What was the rationale for moving him to the pen? Was it injury fear, or did one of them seriously think he's more valuable in the pen?

TomParrish79
05-11-2012, 10:01 PM
What was the rationale for moving him to the pen? Was it injury fear, or did one of them seriously think he's more valuable in the pen?

If they thought he's more valuable to the pen after the way he's pitched as a starter this season, then they should both be fired.

If we have all the details this was terribly planned. Should have went with the MRI first, then made a decision.

But atleast he's back in the rotation now, and according to the MRI his elbow has no damage. So we can atleast move on from here.

KMcMahon817
05-11-2012, 10:03 PM
It's not the end result that bothers me, it's the long and dysfunctional road that led to it that did.

Yeh! One week is just an eternity!

MtGrnwdSoxFan
05-11-2012, 10:12 PM
Yeh! One week is just an eternity!

It sure seemed long, what with everything going 180 one day to the next, he's fine, he needs an MRI, he's going to the bullpen, he's starting.

Maybe "long" wasn't the right word, but this whole week, anything I heard on the radio about the Sox (besides the games) revolved around this.

kevingrt
05-11-2012, 10:16 PM
It sure seemed long, what with everything going 180 one day to the next, he's fine, he needs an MRI, he's going to the bullpen, he's starting.

Maybe "long" wasn't the right word, but this whole week, anything I heard on the radio about the Sox (besides the games) revolved around this.

It's the fact the figureheads in this whole ordeal (RV, Coop, and KW) changed their words day-to-day throughout the whole week. That's why it felt long.

SBSoxFan
05-11-2012, 10:16 PM
If they thought he's more valuable to the pen after the way he's pitched as a starter this season, then they should both be fired.

If we have all the details this was terribly planned. Should have went with the MRI first, then made a decision.

But atleast he's back in the rotation now, and according to the MRI his elbow has no damage. So we can atleast move on from here.

Has there been a report out on the MRI results? I didn't see anything on the Sox' mlb page.

Lip Man 1
05-11-2012, 10:27 PM
Story on Sale with Kenny quotes. Says Sale convinced him and the way he did it "almost crossed the line" but Kenny liked the attitude.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0512-sale-white-sox-royals-chicago--20120512,0,1950444.story

Lip

TaylorStSox
05-11-2012, 10:55 PM
I blame TMZ and sports radio, seriously. Sports and gossip have become synonymous. We don't have a "right" to know everything. This whole saga took a week. What a poorly run organization. Teal unnecessary.

slavko
05-11-2012, 11:26 PM
Because of the nature of the job, many pitching coaches wield a lot more power than any other coach on a team. Some have more power than the Manager.

Or, Kenny divided responsibilities in a non-traditional way from Day 1 and this is how it turned out. Failure to c'municate or communicating too damn much or both. None of us know, but it's possible.

All's well that doesn't end with a season ending operation.

kevingrt
05-11-2012, 11:50 PM
I blame TMZ and sports radio, seriously. Sports and gossip have become synonymous. We don't have a "right" to know everything. This whole saga took a week. What a poorly run organization. Teal unnecessary.

Well this organization needs to learn how to communicate to the media and thus it's fans because the TMZ/sports radio part of sports is not going away anytime soon. Learn how to communicate what you want from all parties involved or do not let all parties speak. The gossip part of sports is not going away so the White Sox as an organization are going to have to learn how to deal with it.

Irishsox1
05-11-2012, 11:57 PM
Sale looks like he might weight just a shade over 130 pounds and has a whip like throwing motion. I just assumed he would blow out his elbow.

TheOldRoman
05-12-2012, 12:00 AM
I blame TMZ and sports radio, seriously. Sports and gossip have become synonymous. We don't have a "right" to know everything. This whole saga took a week. What a poorly run organization. Teal unnecessary.Definitely. On the Score, I find Lawrence Holmes to someone who can be very good at this job, but far too often resorts to trolling and other nonsense like Bernstein. I heard him the other day doing his reoccurring "5'2" of pure rage" wherein he screamed at KW with how-dare-yous, saying the press wasn't stupid and basically had the right to know everything that goes on in the organization. First off, yes, the press largely is stupid. Next, he needs to realize that the press is more of tool to be manipulated by organizations than a transparent reporting agency exposing the seedy underbellies of sports.

FielderJones
05-12-2012, 12:14 AM
I'm just glad I get to see Sale tomorrow at the park.

DSpivack
05-12-2012, 12:26 AM
Definitely. On the Score, I find Lawrence Holmes to someone who can be very good at this job, but far too often resorts to trolling and other nonsense like Bernstein. I heard him the other day doing his reoccurring "5'2" of pure rage" wherein he screamed at KW with how-dare-yous, saying the press wasn't stupid and basically had the right to know everything that goes on in the organization. First off, yes, the press largely is stupid. Next, he needs to realize that the press is more of tool to be manipulated by organizations than a transparent reporting agency exposing the seedy underbellies of sports.

Speaking of media morons, I was watching WTTW's Chicago Tonight uhh, tonight, and they had on Dan McGrath who now is a sportswriter for the New York Times. Anyways, they asked him about Chicago sports and he said that the Cubs rotation has been good and the Cubs have been a surprise thus far and the Sox rotation has been inconsistent. :?::scratch:

TaylorStSox
05-12-2012, 12:33 AM
Well this organization needs to learn how to communicate to the media and thus it's fans because the TMZ/sports radio part of sports is not going away anytime soon. Learn how to communicate what you want from all parties involved or do not let all parties speak. The gossip part of sports is not going away so the White Sox as an organization are going to have to learn how to deal with it.

Why? Who gives a ****? Communicating with the media doesn't win baseball games. The Sox have never been forthcoming with information. They've never played well with the media. So what?

RockJock07
05-12-2012, 12:58 AM
If he blows out his arm, I would be more upset if they had ignored any warning signs instead of clumsily trying to be cautious with him.

I have zero faith that he is actually healthy considering the cluster **** this whole situation was.

BainesHOF
05-12-2012, 01:29 AM
The storyline was more than just about Sale. It exposed the lack of communication within the organization. It also showed the chain of command to be out of whack.

hawkjt
05-12-2012, 01:29 AM
I have zero faith that he is actually healthy considering the cluster **** this whole situation was.

So now you think the organization is intentionally sabotaging the kids arm?

Geezzz...sox fans are the most paranoid in sports, it seems at times.

Their apparently was uncertainty to how much soreness for Sale was acceptable,and only the kid knows if it is normal. He thought it was not,and the Sox brass reacted to that...then after a few days he thought it was,and so they said,screw it we are getting the MRI,and it was clean,and he is back in the rotation.

Well done,Sox Brass. Listened to the pitcher,made a precautionary move in his best interest,and when the kid changed his story, they took another precautionary step with the MRI,and it was clean,and everybodys happy again.

Sure, keeping the whole episode quiet would have looked better,but guess what? Sox fans would have noticed the Sale was not in the rotation and would have experienced the same angst and consternation as they did anyway..so whats the difference?

In the end,all that matter is that Sale's MRI was clean,and he is back in the rotation,which really solidifies it as now we have Peavy,Danks,Gavin and Sale all going well. Now about Humber.....get it going Phillip!

kufram
05-12-2012, 06:29 AM
Well this organization needs to learn how to communicate to the media and thus it's fans because the TMZ/sports radio part of sports is not going away anytime soon. Learn how to communicate what you want from all parties involved or do not let all parties speak. The gossip part of sports is not going away so the White Sox as an organization are going to have to learn how to deal with it.


Sports gossip radio isn't going away soon. You are correct. But it also isn't going to actually matter any time soon either. I don't give a whit what the newspapers and the radio stations "talk" about. I'd be quite happy if the Sox coaching staff gave them nothing at all.

Do the talking on the field.

So what if there was a miscommunication? So what if a first year manager and his pitching coach had a blip? I don't care what columnists and "personalities" report. Sale sorted it with Kenny. Kenny sorted it with the staff. The end.

My only concern is if Sale were to really injure himself.

kevingrt
05-12-2012, 09:50 AM
Sports gossip radio isn't going away soon. You are correct. But it also isn't going to actually matter any time soon either. I don't give a whit what the newspapers and the radio stations "talk" about. I'd be quite happy if the Sox coaching staff gave them nothing at all.

Do the talking on the field.

So what if there was a miscommunication? So what if a first year manager and his pitching coach had a blip? I don't care what columnists and "personalities" report. Sale sorted it with Kenny. Kenny sorted it with the staff. The end.

My only concern is if Sale were to really injure himself.

Completely agree with you on one circumstance. I would rather have them say nothing at all too. But don't have three people talking about three different things and then come off as total idiots in the whole process. Go the Belichick way and have on only one person (Belichick) say absolutely nothing to the media in every situation. I have no problem with that at all. It's just this past week this organization has come off as misguided. Say nothing and move on that is better.

But didn't fans get all up in arms, and didn't the last GM/manager completely fall through due to lack of communication and lack of guidance?

And truly if all three of them spoke the same words throughout this past week this would still be one bizarre scenario. I'd like to hear of another first year starting pitcher go through a month of the season starting. Then he says he has some arm soreness. Then the team moves him into the bullpen for what amounts to two games of availability. This whole time the pitcher is complaining about being moved back to the bullpen. Then they say lets get an MRI. Comes back clean. Wallah, he's back in the starting rotation. Bizarre events.

mark1529
05-12-2012, 09:57 AM
still don't understand why the four of them (herm, coop, robin, and kw) cannot talk this over and come to a joint decision? Why not skip a start and say:

"sale is experiencing some unusual soreness so we are going to get him an mri. He is not injured but this is his first full season as a mlb starter so we are taking the necessary precautions for his long-term health."

wouldn't that have worked? Wouldn't us sox fans be satisfied? Why throw him in the pen for two days? I am so, so confused.


+1

kufram
05-12-2012, 10:09 AM
Completely agree with you on one circumstance. I would rather have them say nothing at all too. But don't have three people talking about three different things and then come off as total idiots in the whole process. Go the Belichick way and have on only one person (Belichick) say absolutely nothing to the media in every situation. I have no problem with that at all. It's just this past week this organization has come off as misguided. Say nothing and move on that is better.

But didn't fans get all up in arms, and didn't the last GM/manager completely fall through due to lack of communication and lack of guidance?

And truly if all three of them spoke the same words throughout this past week this would still be one bizarre scenario. I'd like to hear of another first year starting pitcher go through a month of the season starting. Then he says he has some arm soreness. Then the team moves him into the bullpen for what amounts to two games of availability. This whole time the pitcher is complaining about being moved back to the bullpen. Then they say lets get an MRI. Comes back clean. Wallah, he's back in the starting rotation. Bizarre events.


I don't disagree with what you say.... I just don't care. Just because they come off looking like idiots in the media doesn't make them idiots. It doesn't actually matter that 3 guys said different things to the media. It only matters to people who care about what is said in the media. I don't. I only care that they are looking after the player. Looks to me like they are. Their track record in this regard speaks for itself.

I'm not so sure that Ozzie/Kenny didn't fall out because of too much communication... especially in the media. I'm tempted to teal that because I don't know what circumstances accumulated to lead to the problem, but I don't think it was simple or easy to explain.

Frater Perdurabo
05-12-2012, 10:50 AM
I also don't care what the media says. I only care about what happens on the field. And I cannot fault Robin and Coop for wanting to protect Sale.

I'm not so sure that Ozzie/Kenny didn't fall out because of too much communication... especially in the media. I'm tempted to teal that because I don't know what circumstances accumulated to lead to the problem, but I don't think it was simple or easy to explain.

Ozzie wasn't done in by poor, or too little, or too much, communication between he and KW and/or the media. Ozzie failed to make the playoffs for three straight years. He deserved to be fired on that basis alone. Instead, he whined about wanting an extension. Then he said it wasn't about years, but money, because he only cared about money. All while his team went into a tailspin after having spent most of the year within striking distance of the division lead. Then he talked to the Marlins, accused Sox fans of pissing on statues, and finally asked to be released from his contract before the season was over just so he could join the Marlins for a press conference. He should have been fired, but he QUIT.

Lip Man 1
05-12-2012, 11:10 AM
Frater:

Correct on all points.

Lip

A. Cavatica
05-12-2012, 11:12 AM
No joke. Hard to believe that Ozzie gains a bit of credibility now.

"Any team that would hire me is a poorly run organization."

:ozzie

SCCWS
05-12-2012, 11:22 AM
Ozzie failed to make the playoffs for three straight years. He deserved to be fired on that basis alone. .

I don't disagree but I assume you feel Robin also has a 3 year window to make the playoffs.

kevingrt
05-12-2012, 11:45 AM
Ozzie wasn't done in by poor, or too little, or too much, communication between he and KW and/or the media. Ozzie failed to make the playoffs for three straight years. He deserved to be fired on that basis alone. Instead, he whined about wanting an extension. Then he said it wasn't about years, but money, because he only cared about money. All while his team went into a tailspin after having spent most of the year within striking distance of the division lead. Then he talked to the Marlins, accused Sox fans of pissing on statues, and finally asked to be released from his contract before the season was over just so he could join the Marlins for a press conference. He should have been fired, but he QUIT.

For another thread at another time but... why does KW get more time then anyone else?

And many of you guys are right this organization's track record of success with maintaining pitchers' health is extraordinary. Between trading pitchers right before they blow out their arms or just keeping pitchers off the DL it is pretty astounding. However, who is the last #1-#3 starter to come from this farm organization and stay in the organization for 6+ years?

pudge
05-12-2012, 12:02 PM
Scot Gregor ‏ @scotgregor
Sale on talking his way back to rotation: "The way that meeting went down today was awesome"

Scot Gregor ‏ @scotgregor
Sale: " I just felt it was time to stand up for what I believed in."

Great, so the player talked himself back into the rotation? That always ends well. Chris Sale = next Mark Prior or Kerry Wood.

Frater Perdurabo
05-12-2012, 12:13 PM
I don't disagree but I assume you feel Robin also has a 3 year window to make the playoffs.

I think that is fair as a general principle, but it also depends on a few other factors. If the Sox trade their productive core veterans (Paulie, Peavy, AJ, Dunn, Floyd, Danks, etc.) and go "all in" with a long-term rebuilding effort and youth movement, then the manager deserves much less blame for the losing.

gobears1987
05-12-2012, 12:24 PM
That's really my concern here now. Kenny put his foot down, and if Sale goes out there and blows out his arm. Who's going to take the heat then?:KW

I'll just fire the manager and bring in another guy with 0 experience.

asindc
05-12-2012, 01:37 PM
Great, so the player talked himself back into the rotation? That always ends well. Chris Sale = next Mark Prior or Kerry Wood.

I think the MRI had something to do with it. Just a hunch.

GoSox2K3
05-14-2012, 08:23 AM
The White Sox are a poorly run organization.

Sad but true. This episode with Sale doesn't exactly instill confidence in me about Sox management.

It really pains me to see this team heading in a tail spin. If you think this team is bad now, wait until next year when Peavy and AJ are gone and their salaries are absorbed by raises due to other players and perhaps additional payroll cuts.


Ozzie wasn't done in by poor, or too little, or too much, communication between he and KW and/or the media. Ozzie failed to make the playoffs for three straight years. He deserved to be fired on that basis alone. Instead, he whined about wanting an extension. Then he said it wasn't about years, but money, because he only cared about money. All while his team went into a tailspin after having spent most of the year within striking distance of the division lead. Then he talked to the Marlins, accused Sox fans of pissing on statues, and finally asked to be released from his contract before the season was over just so he could join the Marlins for a press conference. He should have been fired, but he QUIT.

OMG, this is so true and so spot on that you can frame it.

Ozzie is gone. This team's mess is no longer about Ozzie, but it's not a vindication of Ozzie either.

russ99
05-14-2012, 08:43 AM
I also don't care what the media says.
Ozzie wasn't done in by poor, or too little, or too much, communication between he and KW and/or the media. Ozzie failed to make the playoffs for three straight years. He deserved to be fired on that basis alone. Instead, he whined about wanting an extension. Then he said it wasn't about years, but money, because he only cared about money. All while his team went into a tailspin after having spent most of the year within striking distance of the division lead. Then he talked to the Marlins, accused Sox fans of pissing on statues, and finally asked to be released from his contract before the season was over just so he could join the Marlins for a press conference. He should have been fired, but he QUIT.

"Any team that would hire me is a poorly run organization."

:ozzie


1) The Sale issue has absolutely nothing to do with Ozzie. He's gone. Yet some still want to scapegoat the guy.

2) His track record as Sox manager eventually will rise above the petty nonsense that he's continually being slammed about.

Lip Man 1
05-14-2012, 11:17 AM
Is it petty when you insult the fan base? Make it personal time after time after time. A fan base that pays your salary and that you can ill afford to piss off? (since the Sox don't draw three million a year?)

Ozzie's track record will speak for itself that's true...both on the field and offthe field.

Lip