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View Full Version : The Adam, Alex, and Jake Confessional


kufram
05-10-2012, 03:23 AM
Whilst I admit that I was one of those that thought all three of these players would eventually reach their lifetime averages last year... and was proven very wrong (in Jake's case injury was the biggest problem), I never took to bad mouthing them even though none of them are my favourite type. BUT, I'm very glad to have them all on the team this year!

All three deserve kudos in my opinion.

I know it is still early, I think there are one or two posters who may want to confess that they might have gone a little too far in their criticisms.... well, maybe not.

If Beckham can respond, which he appears to be doing, it makes Morel more palatable as long as he catches and throws. I think Robin is right to keep putting these guys out there for now.

October26
05-10-2012, 07:42 AM
I'll gladly step into the Confessional although I do not think I have been super critical of Peavy, Dunn, or Rios in the past. Last year, I was especially irritated with Rios lack of hustle because I hated to see a MLB player waste his baseball talent. I am happy to see Peavy pitching so well and Rios hitting and hustling so far this year.

Today is May 10th and I am thrilled to see that Adam Dunn has hit 10 homers already this year. :bandance:

Adam was the poster child for the miserable season the Sox had in 2011. Adam looks like he is having fun playing baseball this year which is great to see. And yes, I give Robin kudos for setting a totally different tone for this team. This Sox team seems to be able to bounce back from tough losses. After losing the DH on Monday, the Sox played hard and managed to split the series by winning the last two games. Sox now need to rattle of some wins at home.

I agree that Beckham appears to be turning it around offensively. Alexei had a good game last night which was nice to see. I am :praying: for Morel and Viciedo - that each will find their stroke.

Zakath
05-10-2012, 08:13 AM
Adam was the poster child for the miserable season the Sox had in 2011.


Looking back, I think there's no question that he came back too quickly from his appendectomy, and that affected him for if not all, at least a majority, of 2011, similar to Paulie coming back too quickly from his oblique problems in 2008.


Adam looks like he is having fun playing baseball this year which is great to see.

From what's been reported, it looks like he recommitted himself to playing.

Interestingly, at this point in the season, he actually has more strikeouts this year than he did last year (47 vs. 42). You know he's going to strike out... a lot. The difference is the situation, and what he's doing with men on, RISP, etc. A K with 2 outs and no one on isn't a big deal. A K with 2nd and 3rd or bases loaded and 1 out is. Last year, no one had any confidence that he could get the big hit when we needed it, and I don't even think he had the confidence he could do it. Totally different picture this year. Half of his HR's this year have come with runners on. He's only hitting .186 with the bases empty, but .341 with runners on (OPS of 1.301) and .296 w/RISP (OPS of 1.061).

Another interesting thing about him this year: You don't see anyone complaining about his defense when he goes in for Paulie at 1B. Hasn't committed an error yet this year.

October26
05-10-2012, 08:46 AM
Looking back, I think there's no question that he came back too quickly from his appendectomy, and that affected him for if not all, at least a majority, of 2011, similar to Paulie coming back too quickly from his oblique problems in 2008.



From what's been reported, it looks like he recommitted himself to playing.

Interestingly, at this point in the season, he actually has more strikeouts this year than he did last year (47 vs. 42). You know he's going to strike out... a lot. The difference is the situation, and what he's doing with men on, RISP, etc. A K with 2 outs and no one on isn't a big deal. A K with 2nd and 3rd or bases loaded and 1 out is. Last year, no one had any confidence that he could get the big hit when we needed it, and I don't even think he had the confidence he could do it. Totally different picture this year. Half of his HR's this year have come with runners on. He's only hitting .186 with the bases empty, but .341 with runners on (OPS of 1.301) and .296 w/RISP (OPS of 1.061).

Another interesting thing about him this year: You don't see anyone complaining about his defense when he goes in for Paulie at 1B. Hasn't committed an error yet this year.

Agree 100% on Adam coming back too quickly last year and on being committed to playing this year. Adam talked about rededicating himself at SoxFest and so far so good.

Thanks for Adam's stats in relation to strikeouts. You're absolutely right that last year, I cringed when Adam had two strikes on him because I knew the strikeout was coming. This year, I'm thinking: "What will Adam do?" Of course he will strike out (baseball is a game of failure) but he will also hit beautiful home runs like the one he hit last night. I find it amusing (in a positive way) that MLB Network puts a spin when discussing Adam's strikeouts so far this year. They'll say things like: "Did Adam Dunn strikeout again last night?" right before they go to a commercial and then they come back with: "Adam Dunn goes yard - looks like the Big Donkey is back!"

Good point about Dunn & his defense. I think it's great that Adam can play 1B every so often and give Paulie a rest.

DumpJerry
05-10-2012, 08:54 AM
I know it is still early, I think there are one or two posters who may want to confess that they might have gone a little too far in their criticisms.... well, maybe not.
One or two? Try twenty hard-core GM wannabes.

They won't 'fess up, they dwell on the negative.

SI1020
05-10-2012, 09:03 AM
I've been over and over the Jake Peavy thing. Anyone that cares (I doubt that it matters) can look it up and see what I said and when. I never discounted the seriousness of his injury, in fact I kind of dwelled on it. I hope that whatever training regimen he used to rehabilitate keeps him strong for the duration. Dunn OTOH looked totally lost last year. I can only remember one other player falling off a cliff like that and he was a pitcher, and he never recovered. I expected nothing from Dunn ever again, but I don't believe I beat on him. Rios is a talented player that you always hoped would get his act together. So I guess the big question would be can they all keep it up for the rest of the year? Think of how ugly the season would be so far if these three didn't get back on their games.

DSpivack
05-10-2012, 09:15 AM
One or two? Try twenty hard-core GM wannabes.

They won't 'fess up, they dwell on the negative.

So a Sox player shouldn't be criticized after having the single worst season in the history of baseball?

bigdommer
05-10-2012, 09:22 AM
I think Adam's struggles last year were a perfect storm: early injury, tougher fan base, living up to a large contract, and (the biggest in my opinion) adjusting to the full time DH role. People can say what they want about these guys being professionals and they should be able to handle being exclusively an offensive player. When Frank was switched to the full time DH in 1998, his numbers dropped off dramatically. They didn't drop to Adam in 2011 levels, but they were by far the worst of Frank's career to that point.

TaylorStSox
05-10-2012, 10:39 AM
I wasn't really hard on Rios or Peavy. Injuries happen. I'm not going to get mad. I never thought Rios was lazy or dogged it. I think Rios has some confidence issues, but I think he really does care. He was always one of the first guys to greet teammates in the dugout. He seemed into the game in the dugout. Even when he's going well, it never looks like he's running hard. It has more to do with his gait than his effort.

I gave Dunn hell though. If you're going to suck, at least be in shape. I was also really down on him because he was looking so bad at the plate, missing pitches by a foot at a time.

I'm happy they're all improving, but Rios still concerns me. His lack of power is disturbing. Even last year, he made good contact, but seemed pretty unlucky. I don't know if there are stats to back this up. That was just my overall impression. I like that he's going the other way more, that's where he's the most effective. He still needs to turn on pitches occasionally though.

DonnieDarko
05-10-2012, 10:49 AM
I'm happy they're all improving, but Rios still concerns me. His lack of power is disturbing. Even last year, he made good contact, but seemed pretty unlucky. I don't know if there are stats to back this up. That was just my overall impression. I like that he's going the other way more, that's where he's the most effective. He still needs to turn on pitches occasionally though.

The only stat I can think of is the "luck" stat: BABIP. I've seen a LOT of hard hit balls from him just land in opponent's gloves. He's had some bad luck. Overall though, I would like to see more power from him in general. More HRs, Doubles.

EDIT: It appears that his BABIP is slightly above average, which doesn't tell us much. I still think that he's been hella unlucky on pretty much every other hard-hit ball, though. Dude also needs to stop grounding out to the left side.

hawkjt
05-10-2012, 11:09 AM
Baseball success is always fleeting,so I will continue to reserve judgement on anyone long term outside of PK on this club but at this moment:

1. Peavy looks so good right now that I feel very confident on his nite to pitch. The injury concern will never go away completely tho,so I always am relieved when he is done for the nite,and still smiling.

2. Dunn really does look better at the plate this year,despite the strikeouts. That has always been part of his game,but the other part,the homer and walks part,is back in spades. But, whenever a guy swings and misses as much as he does,he will go into droughts. He is on pace for 51 homers and 126 RBI's,and I just wish we could pencil those numbers in,but it does not work that way. Still, right now, he is what we hoped he would be coming in. Also, I think he is slimmer this year,and playing first as much as he is seems to really agree with him. I think Robin has found the sweet spot for both PK and Adam in that rotation at first.

3. Alex is still fragile at the plate,but solid in right field. I know he is not in a homer mode right now,and I think Alex,Manto,Robin and myself are ok with that,fearing that any attempts to turn on pitches will shatter his current swing pattern. Up the middle still needs to dominate his approach.
I am cautiously optimistic with him.

It was hard to be patient with Adam and Alex last year,while with Jake it was always a health deal,but I never saw the point in hammering them.

Now about Morel....he looks like Dunn last year,but that can change ,as we have seen with Adam...so,lets hang in there with him. I did see that the Twins sent their promising 3rd baseman down to the minors as he is hitting .191...not the end of the world,Brent.

Irishsox1
05-10-2012, 11:47 AM
Peavy when healthy was good, the problem was he was usually hurt. Also, his tough guy image is annoying. Just shut up and pitch. I guess I was spoiled by the way Beuhrle pitched.

Dunn was injured and in a nasty slump. I was more hopeful that he would come back this year and be better and he has.

Rios is still in my dog house. I just don't like the guy's attitude and inconsistent effort. He is hitting better and he's a better right fielder than center fielder by far. I'm not looking for him to be as fired up as he was after the triple in Cleveland but as talented as Rios is, he just needs to be more consistent in his effort.

tstrike2000
05-10-2012, 11:52 AM
So a Sox player shouldn't be criticized after having the single worst season in the history of baseball?

Or a team that overall appeared to be listless for much of the 2011 season? But hey, the past is in the past. Hopefully, our young core will start to contribute more and Peavy, Rios, Konerko, AJ, and Dunn will continue to produce throughout the summer.

KMcMahon817
05-10-2012, 12:09 PM
Peavy when healthy was good, the problem was he was usually hurt. Also, his tough guy image is annoying. Just shut up and pitch. I guess I was spoiled by the way Beuhrle pitched.


He had the tough guy attitude when he got here because the Jake Peavy you are seeing right now is what he was used to being. When you're that good, you can talk.

I don't blame the guy for not changing his personality. He may care more than anyone else out on that field, and it shows. Don't get me wrong, there were definitely times when I wished he would just shut up and pitch, but I guess that is just who he is.

I also have to wonder about a topic I brought up here this off-season. If Jake continues to perform well and does not get himself injured again, part of me has to wonder if he will give the SOX a break. Sure, it would be most unusual for a ball player to do so. But Peavy has made a **** load of money in his career; maybe he feels he owes the SOX and their fan base something for letting them down for 2.5 seasons. Maybe a 3 year 25M deal that voids or includes his buyout. It is probably not likely, but you never know. I really do think that Jake feels he owes this organization something.

DonnieDarko
05-10-2012, 12:13 PM
I also have to wonder about a topic I brought up here this off-season. If Jake continues to perform well and does not get himself injured again, part of me has to wonder if he will give the SOX a break. Sure, it would be most unusual for a ball player to do so. But Peavy has made a **** load of money in his career; maybe he feels he owes the SOX and their fan base something for letting them down for 2.5 seasons. Maybe a 3 year 25M deal that voids or includes his buyout. It is probably not likely, but you never know. I really do think that Jake feels he owes this organization something.

Peavy owes the White Sox no more than any employee owes their employer.

DSpivack
05-10-2012, 12:37 PM
He had the tough guy attitude when he got here because the Jake Peavy you are seeing right now is what he was used to being. When you're that good, you can talk.

I don't blame the guy for not changing his personality. He may care more than anyone else out on that field, and it shows. Don't get me wrong, there were definitely times when I wished he would just shut up and pitch, but I guess that is just who he is.

I also have to wonder about a topic I brought up here this off-season. If Jake continues to perform well and does not get himself injured again, part of me has to wonder if he will give the SOX a break. Sure, it would be most unusual for a ball player to do so. But Peavy has made a **** load of money in his career; maybe he feels he owes the SOX and their fan base something for letting them down for 2.5 seasons. Maybe a 3 year 25M deal that voids or includes his buyout. It is probably not likely, but you never know. I really do think that Jake feels he owes this organization something.

Peavy owes the White Sox no more than any employee owes their employer.

Agreed. 3 years, $25 million including the buyout would make his salary at just $4 million next season. If keeps on pitching like this, he'll be able to make a lot more than $4 million next year, and a lot more than $8mil/year on the market.

kevingrt
05-10-2012, 01:06 PM
Small sample size stat of the day:

Gordon Beckham'sslash line in May: .306/.350/.528

:D:

KMcMahon817
05-10-2012, 02:32 PM
Agreed. 3 years, $25 million including the buyout would make his salary at just $4 million next season. If keeps on pitching like this, he'll be able to make a lot more than $4 million next year, and a lot more than $8mil/year on the market.

Like I said, its unlikely. But I can guarantee you that teams are not going to be lining up to offer Peavy a multi-year contract at 10+ million per. Just not going to happen with his recent injury history.

guillensdisciple
05-10-2012, 02:42 PM
Don't see a point of confessing. They clearly under performed last year and years before that. I was disappointed and voice it. Perfectly rational.

They are playing well and I expected them to play like this. They're doing they're job as experienced players who have had star like careers.

DSpivack
05-10-2012, 03:16 PM
Like I said, its unlikely. But I can guarantee you that teams are not going to be lining up to offer Peavy a multi-year contract at 10+ million per. Just not going to happen with his recent injury history.

If he pitches like he has been thus far, absolutely they will.

DumpJerry
05-10-2012, 03:34 PM
So a Sox player shouldn't be criticized after having the single worst season in the history of baseball?
That's not what I said.

Noneck
05-10-2012, 03:55 PM
I wasnt crazy about getting Dunn but was talked into the Dunn deal because of the "all in year" which just didnt pan out. Without a "all in" team hes a waste.

Peavy I liked and not for the year he came here but also for the "all in" year, now hes a waste also.

Rios I liked when the Sox got him and I still do. He can be the best all around ball player on the club and he is showing that again this year. Why he has years like last year, I dont know and hope it doesnt happen again for the duration of his contract.

KMcMahon817
05-10-2012, 04:01 PM
I wasnt crazy about getting Dunn but was talked into the Dunn deal because of the "all in year" which just didnt pan out. Without a "all in" team hes a waste.

Peavy I liked and not for the year he came here but also for the "all in" year, now hes a waste also.

Rios I liked when the Sox got him and I still do. He can be the best all around ball player on the club and he is showing that again this year. Why he has years like last year, I dont know and hope it doesnt happen again for the duration of his contract.

Interesting post.

Dunn is one of the best at what he does when he is right. So far in 2012, he has been right. A LH power hitter is what this team has sorely missed since Thome in 2006. Sure, Dunn may not be a great piece on a .500 team, but if he had the right pieces around him he would be very valuable.

Peavy has been in waste up until 2012, but to call him a waste in 2012 ridiculous. He has arguably (not even, really) been the best pitcher in
baseball so far.

I still worry about Rios, honestly.

Noneck
05-10-2012, 04:06 PM
Peavy has been in waste up until 2012, but to call him a waste in 2012 ridiculous. He has arguably (not even, really) been the best pitcher in
baseball so far.



At 20M on a .500 team and because of his low trade return, hes a waste.

KMcMahon817
05-10-2012, 04:08 PM
At 20M on a .500 team and because of his low trade return, hes a waste.

I get the concern about payroll and all, but if Peavy were to be dealt that cash is not getting reinvested into the ball club. It is going into Jerry's wallet.

doublem23
05-10-2012, 04:12 PM
FWIW, Peavy currently has the best WAR in baseball for 2012 at 2.8.

SI1020
05-10-2012, 04:12 PM
I wasnt crazy about getting Dunn but was talked into the Dunn deal because of the "all in year" which just didnt pan out. Without a "all in" team hes a waste.

Peavy I liked and not for the year he came here but also for the "all in" year, now hes a waste also.

Rios I liked when the Sox got him and I still do. He can be the best all around ball player on the club and he is showing that again this year. Why he has years like last year, I dont know and hope it doesnt happen again for the duration of his contract. I liked the Peavy deal, although I should have known better, was lukewarm on Dunn, and didn't care for the Rios signing. Lots of Blue Jays fans celebrated his departure and I thought he was way too big a risk. Hopefully he feels comfortable with himself and the new staff and is ready to become an all star again.

Noneck
05-10-2012, 04:13 PM
I get the concern about payroll and all, but if Peavy were to be dealt that cash is not getting reinvested into the ball club. It is going into Jerry's wallet.

Yea probably but watching a Cy Young performance for a half a year on team that doesnt have a chance is still a waste in my eyes.

Now if these kind of performances were by Danks or Sale I would be pumped because there is a future with them.

kufram
05-10-2012, 06:19 PM
So a Sox player shouldn't be criticized after having the single worst season in the history of baseball?


I did not say that they shouldn't be criticized though , did I? I said I thought one or posters may have gone too far with their criticism. There is a difference.

Nellie_Fox
05-11-2012, 01:18 AM
I did not say that they shouldn't be criticized though , did I? I said I thought one or posters may have gone too far with their criticism. There is a difference.There were more than one or two slinging absolute venom at Peavy, when he was obviously coming back from an unprecedented surgery. I was stunned at the intensity of the anger directed at him.

kufram
05-11-2012, 05:42 AM
There were more than one or two slinging absolute venom at Peavy, when he was obviously coming back from an unprecedented surgery. I was stunned at the intensity of the anger directed at him.


I've been stunned at the intensity of some posters anger more than once. I guess I don't understand the point of spewing pure vitriol, sometimes seemingly endlessly, on a fan site. I seriously have thought about abandoning WSI because of it at times.

If I felt that kind of anger I would just do something else. Anger is too destructive to me. But that is just me.

Like I said, none of these 3 players are my favourites, but all 3 deserve credit where it is due and I was hoping against hope that some could manage to give that credit after being so vocal in holding them to account when things weren't working... for their own sake, the players don't need credit from here.

Boondock Saint
05-11-2012, 05:56 AM
There were more than one or two slinging absolute venom at Peavy, when he was obviously coming back from an unprecedented surgery. I was stunned at the intensity of the anger directed at him.

No ****. If I never read the words "shut up and pitch" again, it'll be too soon. "You're injured, but still answer the media's questions? You're an *******!" "You're honest when you answer those questions? *******!" "Nobody wants to see you out there pitching more than you do? Shut up and do it, douche!"