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View Full Version : Thoughts on the Ritchie trade, 7 months later.


PaleHoseGeorge
07-23-2002, 10:15 AM
What I find so fascinating about this trade is the conventional wisdom I'm hearing from lots of people like Dave Wills. They seem resigned to the notion that Wells, Fogg, and Lowe would never have put up numbers for the Sox like they have for the Pirates.

WHY???

Sure, a change of scenery can do wonders for some guys, but is that REALLY what is going on here? What about the coaching? What about the fitness regimen? What about the preparation for the opposing hitters before each game? Are we to believe ALL THREE of these guys are pitching better simply because the "scenery" in Pittsburgh is different than Chicago? Gimme a break!

To prove my point, look at how Todd Ritchie has done. Nobody, not even Kenny Williams the Village Idiot, believed Toad was going to be the staff ace. We simply hoped he could be a solid #2 and pitch lots of innings to save the bullpen for the younger guys. Is that how it has worked out? Not a chance.

Ritchie has become the WORST pitcher on the staff. He's the one weighing down the rest of the rotation! He isn't even as good as the mediocre pitcher he was in Pittsburgh. Why is that?

Apparently the "scenery" in Pittsburgh is simply better than the "scenery" on Chicago's South Side. Because there isn't any of FOUR DIFFERENT PITCHERS who hasn't done better in Pittsburgh than they did here.

Dave Wills and the others just need to come clean on this point. Shilling for the man is getting really tiresome.

If it's "scenery" that makes our pitchers pitch better for other teams, than we had better get busy to change the scenery. This has a become a sick joke.

I don't believe for a minute the blame lies at Nardi Conteras' feet. Look higher.

Iwritecode
07-23-2002, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
What I find so fascinating about this trade is the conventional wisdom I'm hearing from lots of people like Dave Wills. They seem resigned to the notion that Wells, Fogg, and Lowe would never have put up numbers for the Sox like they have for the Pirates.

WHY???

Sure, a change of scenery can do wonders for some guys, but is that REALLY what is going on here? What about the coaching? What about the fitness regimen? What about the preparation for the opposing hitters before each game? Are we to believe ALL THREE of these guys are pitching better simply because the "scenery" in Pittsburgh is different than Chicago? Gimme a break!

To prove my point, look at how Todd Ritchie has done. Nobody, not even Kenny Williams the Village Idiot, believed Toad was going to be the staff ace. We simply hoped he could be a solid #2 and pitch lots of innings to save the bullpen for the younger guys. Is that how it has worked out? Not a chance.

Ritchie has become the WORST pitcher on the staff. He's the one weighing down the rest of the rotation! He isn't even as good as the mediocre pitcher he was in Pittsburgh. Why is that?

Apparently the "scenery" in Pittsburgh is simply better than the "scenery" on Chicago's South Side. Because there isn't any of FOUR DIFFERENT PITCHERS who hasn't done better in Pittsburgh than they did here.

Dave Wills and the others just need to come clean on this point. Shilling for the man is getting really tiresome.

If it's "scenery" that makes our pitchers pitch better for other teams, than we had better get busy to change the scenery. This has a become a sick joke.

I don't believe for a minute the blame lies at Nardi Conteras' feet. Look higher.

I'm not completely sure of the point you are trying to make here PHG but I for one don't think that Kip ever would have turned the corner in a Sox uni like he has in Pittsburg. Lowe is pitching the way he always has, and Fogg was never given a chance. (Although I believe if given the chance, Nardi could have ruined him too...) I have to believe most of the blame should be on Nardi. Obviously whatever way he was teaching Kip wasn't working. This is not to mention Chad Bradford who has become a pretty decent setup man for Oakland. I don't think he could have done that here either. Even Toad pitched better in Pittsburg. I don't know exactly where to find the statistics but I bet he pitched more quality/winnable starts last year than he has so far this year. So far the only pitcher that has really done well under Nardi has been Burly. That mostly due to his great control, and according to him, David Wells. Sure, some of the blame should go to JR for not firing Nardi last year and letting him ruin our young arms even more, but that's about it.

Jerry_Manuel
07-23-2002, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
Fogg was never given a chance. (Although I believe if given the chance, Nardi could have ruined him too...) This is not to mention Chad Bradford who has become a pretty decent setup man for Oakland. I don't think he could have done that here either. Even Toad pitched better in Pittsburg. I don't know exactly where to find the statistics but I bet he pitched more quality/winnable starts last year than he has so far this year.

Fogg looked good at the end of 2001. He might not have been this good, but he wouldn't be awful here either.

Bradford is a pretty good pitcher. He just didn't fit in with the Sox. As Tommy John has pointed out he wasn't a gun pitcher. So the Sox didn't give him much thought.

I posted a thread on his stats.

duke of dorwood
07-23-2002, 10:47 AM
I completely understand what PHG is writing. There has been , there isnt and never will be preperation in this organization until changes AT THE TOP are made. And in my opinion, not from within.

CuckTheFubs
07-23-2002, 10:54 AM
Wells/Lowe/Fogg for Ritchie, is this the worst trade in White Sox history? I think it is.

The only way this trade is remotely good for us Sox fans is that those three pitchers are probably largely responsible for the Pirates having a better record than the Cubbies.

The Cubbies traded away Eric Hinske, who is a leading candidate for AL Rookie of the Year, for Scott Chiasson. Chiasson got hammered in his brief stay with the Cubbies this year and got blasted in the minors too.



:washington
"I was a Hyde Park resident,
but I bought my undergarments
in Wrigleyville."

alohafri
07-23-2002, 11:08 AM
(From Mrs. Aloha)

We were at the game last night, and before we even got there I resigned myself to a loss. I'm so sick of Toad I could just scream. If not for a stellar performance by our defense, we figured that Toad would have given up at least 7 more runs...that is unfathomable. Then we had to boo the Toad when he *finally* got pulled. What I don't understand is if he (the Toad) blames himself so much, why the heck doesn't he "call in sick", like complain about a stomach ache or something when he's scheduled to pitch, so we are forced to start someone else. He would be doing this team a huge favor by just going away.

idseer
07-23-2002, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by alohafri
(From Mrs. Aloha)

We were at the game last night, and before we even got there I resigned myself to a loss. I'm so sick of Toad I could just scream. If not for a stellar performance by our defense, we figured that Toad would have given up at least 7 more runs...that is unfathomable. Then we had to boo the Toad when he *finally* got pulled. What I don't understand is if he (the Toad) blames himself so much, why the heck doesn't he "call in sick", like complain about a stomach ache or something when he's scheduled to pitch, so we are forced to start someone else. He would be doing this team a huge favor by just going away.

i wish you'd all stop calling him toad!
todd is a perfectly good name. :)

alohafri
07-23-2002, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
What I find so fascinating about this trade is the conventional wisdom I'm hearing from lots of people like Dave Wills. They seem resigned to the notion that Wells, Fogg, and Lowe would never have put up numbers for the Sox like they have for the Pirates.

WHY???

I don't believe for a minute the blame lies at Nardi Conteras' feet. Look higher.

Some of the blame belongs to the man who Lou Piniella called the worst pitching coach in baseball, but most of it belongs to Ghandi himself. He has absolutely no clue about how to handle a pitching staff. He brings in guys to face one batter and wonders why we run out of pitchers in extra inning games (not that we play too many of them).

He claims to play the National League style of baseball, but he is actually playing beer league softball style of the game...wait for the big home run.

The only reason Lenny gave him a vote of confidence was because the Chairman doesn't want to have to pay two salaries. Come to think of it, the only reason Lenny and Ghandi are in the positions they are in is because they are new at the job and the Chairman knew they would work cheap.

Jerry, find a real Chicago Sox fan and sell the team to him (or her) and go back to Brooklyn.

34 Inch Stick
07-23-2002, 03:34 PM
I can think of a second reason why they both have a job.... Chairman Jerry following a certain directive from the comissioner and at the same time doing a little social engineering in the process.