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View Full Version : *Official* Beckham's Breakout 5/1 Post-Game Thread


vinny
05-01-2012, 10:49 PM
Not too bad, except for Santiago.

:soxwin:

SoxSpeed22
05-01-2012, 10:52 PM
Jimenez was not good tonight, so it was good to see our batters let him get himself into trouble. Infield defense was pretty sharp tonight, the only real downer I can think of was Viciedo not seeing the ball well, but we're beating the division and that's what matters most.

Aesero
05-01-2012, 10:53 PM
Great game for Beckham! And, uh, at least Santiago didn't give up a homerun this game.

Boondock Saint
05-01-2012, 10:54 PM
A few things-

1) Peavy and Sale will be 1-2 in the Sox rotation by the end of the season. Sale has awesome stuff, and he's going to be an ace someday.

2) Credit where it's due, Beckham had an awesome game. Bring that average up to around .230-250, and he and I are more than cool.

3) Someone tell Santiago that Charlotte is gorgeous this time of year. He can't pitch in the majors right now.

sullythered
05-01-2012, 10:58 PM
Axelrod is dominating AAA ball right now. Just sayin'.

PalehosePlanet
05-01-2012, 10:59 PM
A few things-

1) Peavy and Sale will be 1-2 in the Sox rotation by the end of the season. Sale has awesome stuff, and he's going to be an ace someday.

2) Credit where it's due, Beckham had an awesome game. Bring that average up to around .230-250, and he and I are more than cool.

3) Someone tell Santiago that Charlotte is gorgeous this time of year. He can't pitch in the majors right now.Actually I really liked that he didn't give in and pipe fastballs down the middle when behind in the count. He threw all of his pitches tonight and the Indians -- for a couple of batters anyway -- were able to lay off some good pitches.

Nice to finally score some runs at home.

palehozenychicty
05-01-2012, 11:00 PM
I'm happy for Beckham. People need to give him a little more slack. We need this guy to be a good major leaguer.

Jimenez has been a mystery for awhile. Good to see the team not swing at his wildness.

BigHurt3515
05-01-2012, 11:00 PM
Axelrod is dominating AAA ball right now. Just sayin'.

Thought he was already up because Crain is on the DL?

PalehosePlanet
05-01-2012, 11:01 PM
Axelrod is dominating AAA ball right now. Just sayin'.

Axelrod is here already. Jesse is on the DL.

amsteel
05-01-2012, 11:01 PM
A few things-

1) Peavy and Sale will be 1-2 in the Sox rotation by the end of the season. Sale has awesome stuff, and he's going to be an ace someday.

3) Someone tell Santiago that Charlotte is gorgeous this time of year. He can't pitch in the majors right now.

I still have my doubts as to whether Sale can go 150+ IP, but I'm in for as long as long as he continues pitching like this. Along those lines, I like Robin's call to pull him w/ 88 pitches and a big lead.

Agreed, unless MLB starts using new baseballs Hector's days as a MLer are numbered.

slavko
05-01-2012, 11:04 PM
Axelrod is dominating AAA ball right now. Just sayin'.

Don't have to convince me. He knows how to pitch, showed me last Sept in a game Santos almost gave away. When one of the starters gets traded (Floyd) he'll step right in.

Boondock Saint
05-01-2012, 11:04 PM
Actually I really liked that he didn't give in and pipe fastballs down the middle when behind in the count. He threw all of his pitches tonight and the Indians -- for a couple of batters anyway -- were able to lay off some good pitches.

Nice to finally score some runs at home.

He threw a lot of really bad ones, too. Going 2-0 3-1 on guys is how you get shelled against teams that hit the ball well. Tonight, he did it against the Indians and packed the bases before getting out of it. The kid allowed three baserunners. That's what we'd have expected from Linebrink or MacDougal in the past.

sox1970
05-01-2012, 11:06 PM
Axelrod is dominating AAA ball right now. Just sayin'.

In the pen, and probably starting one of the games next Monday in Cleveland.

ChiSoxGal85
05-01-2012, 11:08 PM
Good win!

Loved the bottom of the 3rd. Beckham got one in the wheelhouse and didn't miss it. Then the smoke from Gordon's HR fireworks settled over the infield, making the Indians infield misplay a high popup, followed immediately by other Indian misadventures. Let's just say that was an entertaining inning.

I didn't mind Santiago coming in that situation, but he made it a little hairy. Thank heavens he didn't give up a HR.

Great game for Beckham and Morel also hit the ball pretty hard tonight. Let's hope this is the start of good things for those two.

SteveFakeBlood
05-01-2012, 11:10 PM
Great game- glad I was watching this during the the catastrophe that was the Bulls game.

I agree with Bonndock Saint's points- but I'm not sure I'm ready to send Santiago back down- just take him out of the closer's role and see how he functions in middle relief- if he continues to struggle then demote him.

Here are a few additional takeaways:

1. We're now 5-1 against the Central, as opposed to 7-10 against everyone else. The latter is disappointing, but much less important than the former. If we can win series against teams in the Central, we can afford to be mediocre against the rest of the league.

2. What stood out today wasn't a particularly great offensive performance, but rather taking advantage of mistakes- hopefully, we can continue on that. It was terrible to see so many wasted opportunities in the 14 inning loss to Oakland among other games.

3. Our starters have been making it easier on the bullpen- being down Crain and with Santiago struggling, that can only help. Hopefully, Humber will give us a good outing tomorrow and Danks can turn it around Thursday (especially since it's the first- and maybe only- game I'll get to attend this season).

~ Steve

LoveYourSuit
05-01-2012, 11:11 PM
Our two worst pitchers:

The #1 starter
and
The Closer.

TDog
05-01-2012, 11:11 PM
Not too bad, except for Santiago.



When the "except for" player ends up pitching a scoreless ninth, it must be an especially good night. When Gordon Beckham has a many hits through six AND has driven in twice as many runs as the White Sox starter allowed through six, it is going to be a pretty good night.

Interesting dynamics tonight in that the Indians only scored in half innings after the White Sox went scoreless. The run the Indians scored in the top of the second could be considered a gift, in that it was driven in on a ball that Viciedo misplayed. I'm not really sure how many of the White Sox runs could be considered gifts, but I know the infield fly rule doesn't provide for doubles when they fail to be caught with no one on base. It must have been a difficult night for the players. (It looks like it would have been a great game to attend as a kid, though.)

Still, Sale looked great against the Indians once again. The White Sox are now 5-1 against the AL Central, 3-1 at home, which is why they are in a virtual tie for first with the Central teams they have played. They are 5-4 against the West, all on the road, and 2-6 against the East, all at home.

A pretty easy win, really, even if there was some anxiety at the end. You don't need a lot of runs when you have great starting pitching, but it was nice to have enough of a margin not to see the tying run not come up in the ninth for the Indians.

JB98
05-01-2012, 11:13 PM
5-1 against the AL Central -- hopefully that trend of losing to the division we've seen the last two years gets reversed this season.

OmahaSoxFan
05-01-2012, 11:13 PM
Great way to snap of a cold streak Beckham, what a game, especially after how he has started the season. If Gordon, Viciedo and Morel can pick it up on the offensive side, this team could end up being pretty solid.

Also, nice to see Sale grab another win, he is really doing well in his new starter's role... he is quickly becoming the #3 starting pitcher on this staff (save for Humber's one breakout game, and Danks' struggles of late).

OmahaSoxFan
05-01-2012, 11:14 PM
5-1 against the AL Central -- hopefully that trend of losing to the division we've seen the last two years gets reversed this season.

Wow, that's a great sign - but you know we still have to play the fearsome Twins and Royals... sad to say, but those teams always sneak up and bite the Sox on the behind almost every year... maybe now that Ozzie is gone - Robin will break that trend... we shall see! :redneck

PalehosePlanet
05-01-2012, 11:16 PM
He threw a lot of really bad ones, too. Going 2-0 3-1 on guys is how you get shelled against teams that hit the ball well. Tonight, he did it against the Indians and packed the bases before getting out of it. The kid allowed three baserunners. That's what we'd have expected from Linebrink or MacDougal in the past.

Two walks, and one cheap ass chopper off the plate. Again, the Indians batters laid off some tough pitches, which happens sometimes.

Bottom line: You have to give young players a chance to develop. Comparing a kid w/10-15 innings of MLB pitching under his belt to erratic veterans like Linebrink or McDougal makes zero sense

shingo10
05-01-2012, 11:21 PM
Great win. Sets us up nice to take the series.

Hopefully this is the start of something big for Beckham. He is long overdue.

I was wondering with the DH coming up on Monday if we might see Nester Molina get a start? Kind of excited if that were the case.

Boondock Saint
05-01-2012, 11:23 PM
Two walks, and one cheap ass chopper off the plate. Again, the Indians batters laid off some tough pitches, which happens sometimes.

Bottom line: You have to give young players a chance to develop. Comparing a kid w/10-15 innings of MLB pitching under his belt to erratic veterans like Linebrink or McDougal makes zero sense

He got behind in the count to every hitter he faced except one, and went to a three ball count against four of the six hitters he faced. That's not just guys laying off pitches, he's missing the plate completely. That's dangerous.

sox1970
05-01-2012, 11:24 PM
Great win. Sets us up nice to take the series.

Hopefully this is the start of something big for Beckham. He is long overdue.

I was wondering with the DH coming up on Monday if we might see Nester Molina get a start? Kind of excited if that were the case.

Molina is scheduled to pitch tomorrow, but so is Eric Stults at AAA...both would be on 4 days rest next Monday.

I think Stults is more likely to come up and either start or relieve Axelrod.

FielderJones
05-01-2012, 11:27 PM
Bottom line: You have to give young players a chance to develop. Comparing a kid w/10-15 innings of MLB pitching under his belt to erratic veterans like Linebrink or McDougal makes zero sense

This was not a game to develop a kid. This was not a game to work on a screwball that you can't throw for a strike. With a five run lead, throw strikes and let the batters get themselves out. They're not going to hit five home runs in a row.

At this point I have no confidence putting Santiago in with a save on the line. The Sox need to win games now if they want to start putting more than 20,000 butts in the seats come summer. They cannot afford to piss away five run leads, and that could have happened tonight.

TDog
05-01-2012, 11:32 PM
Our two worst pitchers:

The #1 starter
and
The Closer.

If Santiago were in solid as the closer, he wouldn't have been brought in with a five-run lead tonight. Ventura didn't bring in a closer to pitch the ninth in their last win, but stayed with the reliever he brought in during the eighth inning. It's possible that Ventura designated Thornton his new closer, but that is the MO of closer-by-committee.

Peavy is the team's No. 1 starter. It's irrelevant that he didn't start opening day. He emerged as the No. 1 starter in April. Teams don't re-arrange their rotation to reflect such changes until the All-Star break or postseason. Even if you wanted to make Danks the No. 5 starter, you wouldn't have to rearrange the rotation.

Actually, in 2005, the White Sox opening day closer was probably the worst pitcher on the staff, and wasn't even on the team past mid-July.

SoxSpeed22
05-01-2012, 11:33 PM
This was not a game to develop a kid. This was not a game to work on a screwball that you can't throw for a strike. With a five run lead, throw strikes and let the batters get themselves out. They're not going to hit five home runs in a row.He's gotta do it sometime. Why not work on it in a blowout? For him to make it here, he can't have batters tee off on his fastball alone.
I don't think Hector should be closing either, I think Reed is the man for that.

doublem23
05-01-2012, 11:38 PM
I still have my doubts as to whether Sale can go 150+ IP, but I'm in for as long as long as he continues pitching like this. Along those lines, I like Robin's call to pull him w/ 88 pitches and a big lead.

Agreed, unless MLB starts using new baseballs Hector's days as a MLer are numbered.

I think there will be some growing pains with Sale later this year as he fatigues but there seems to be no reason to me to not think that by 2013 or 2014 Sale will be one of the elite SP in the A.L. Ceiling is that high on this kid.

doublem23
05-01-2012, 11:45 PM
Actually, in 2005, the White Sox opening day closer was probably the worst pitcher on the staff, and wasn't even on the team past mid-July.

Plus the guy who would eventually be our #1 starter was #3 on Opening Day and didn't quite put it together until the All-Star Break

sullythered
05-01-2012, 11:48 PM
Reed has been absolutely dominant thus far. Perhaps it's time to give him a shot. I have never trusted lefty closers, anyway.

PalehosePlanet
05-01-2012, 11:50 PM
This was not a game to develop a kid. This was not a game to work on a screwball that you can't throw for a strike. With a five run lead, throw strikes and let the batters get themselves out. They're not going to hit five home runs in a row.

At this point I have no confidence putting Santiago in with a save on the line. The Sox need to win games now if they want to start putting more than 20,000 butts in the seats come summer. They cannot afford to piss away five run leads, and that could have happened tonight.

Really? So when do you suppose you let a kid work on his off-speed pitches? A 10 run lead or deficit? The other team isn't motivated to hit in garbage time so success at that point means nothing.

Noneck
05-02-2012, 12:03 AM
Peavy is the team's No. 1 starter. It's irrelevant that he didn't start opening day.

If Danks didnt sign a long term contract or if Peavy wasnt in the last year of a contract and has no chance of returning to the Sox, Peavy would have started on opening day and be considered the #1.

Tragg
05-02-2012, 12:16 AM
Reed has been absolutely dominant thus far. Perhaps it's time to give him a shot. I have never trusted lefty closers, anyway.We don't need our best reliever as closer. We need our best reliever to pitch us out of jams.

guillensdisciple
05-02-2012, 12:21 AM
Haven't watched a full game in a while and came back to see Morel's average up- at least that's the up and up. Glad to see Beckham go to work tonight though I don't trust him yet.

kevingrt
05-02-2012, 07:34 AM
Wearing my Beckham jersey for the first time today in like two years. Feels good.

Chez
05-02-2012, 08:30 AM
We tailgated through the pre-game downpour, Got soaked to the skin -- but the sausages still tasted great! Spent the rain delay at Bacardi's -- first time there -- very nice. Seemed like half the crowd (albeit a small crowd) were friends and family of Jason Kipnis. The kid can hit, but he's shaky in the field.

russ99
05-02-2012, 08:39 AM
Two walks, and one cheap ass chopper off the plate. Again, the Indians batters laid off some tough pitches, which happens sometimes.

Bottom line: You have to give young players a chance to develop. Comparing a kid w/10-15 innings of MLB pitching under his belt to erratic veterans like Linebrink or McDougal makes zero sense

Actually, comparing him to Linebrink makes perfect sense.

Linebrink couldn't get his breaking pitches over the plate, and everyone waited on his fastball.

Santiago has to learn to live without the screwball until he can throw them with the expected movement and for strikes.

Adjustments are a big part of success in the big leagues, but I do agree that the Sox should give him another 20 innings or so in non-save situations to figure it out.

hawkjt
05-02-2012, 09:18 AM
Nice to see the fireworks obscure fly balls,great job by DeAza to take advantage with that infield popup right after Gordo's dinger.
DeAza hustled out of the box and make it to second...good to see. Hope Adam Dunn was watching.

Sale has been right behind Peavy as our most dependable starter. Knock on wood,just hoping he holds up thru the hot summer,as his stuff is clearly dynamite.

Warmer weather seems to help these guys,so the next two days are good for hitting,if the rain stays away...keep it going,boys.

DumpJerry
05-02-2012, 09:20 AM
I was at the game and was thinking that a good thread title (albeit, too long to fit in the title field) would be "My Beckham is back and you're gonna be sorry......"

tstrike2000
05-02-2012, 09:46 AM
Actually I really liked that he didn't give in and pipe fastballs down the middle when behind in the count. He threw all of his pitches tonight and the Indians -- for a couple of batters anyway -- were able to lay off some good pitches.

Nice to finally score some runs at home.

I don't want to be too critical of Hector because I hope he works it. However, a couple of the calls he did get, including the called third strike Santana, looked to be balls. Because his stuff was all over the place, it looked like he couldn't throw it down the middle if he tried.

Chez
05-02-2012, 09:49 AM
Giving Santiago the benefit of the doubt, he hadn't pitched since the melt down in Oakland -- 6 days from Tuesday. Hard to stay sharp under the circumstances.

PorkChopExpress
05-02-2012, 10:24 AM
Was it just me, or did Beckham appear to have a little more swagger at the plate last night? And I'm not talking about wiggling his bat. Usually, he seems timid, or even fearful up there, but last night he seemed to exude confidence at the plate. He looked eager to hit.

LoveYourSuit
05-02-2012, 10:32 AM
If Santiago were in solid as the closer, he wouldn't have been brought in with a five-run lead tonight. Ventura didn't bring in a closer to pitch the ninth in their last win, but stayed with the reliever he brought in during the eighth inning. It's possible that Ventura designated Thornton his new closer, but that is the MO of closer-by-committee.

Peavy is the team's No. 1 starter. It's irrelevant that he didn't start opening day. He emerged as the No. 1 starter in April. Teams don't re-arrange their rotation to reflect such changes until the All-Star break or postseason. Even if you wanted to make Danks the No. 5 starter, you wouldn't have to rearrange the rotation.

Actually, in 2005, the White Sox opening day closer was probably the worst pitcher on the staff, and wasn't even on the team past mid-July.

I disagree. With Danks signing the richest pitching contract in Sox history, he needs to pitch as a #1.

asindc
05-02-2012, 10:35 AM
I disagree. With Danks signing the richest pitching contract in Sox history, he needs to pitch as a #1.

I don't think he is capable. You might argue that he should not have been offered that contract, but IMO he had done nothing in his career that would suggest he has #1 stuff. He is a #2 at best.

doublem23
05-02-2012, 11:03 AM
I disagree. With Danks signing the richest pitching contract in Sox history, he needs to pitch as a #1.

A) It's been like... 4 games for him

B) Who cares how the money lines up? Does anyone really care that Rios outearns De Aza by a wide margin, even though De Aza plays the more important defensive position and bats in a more important spot in the lineup? No, because the OF works. Money only matters during the phase of actually constructing the roster, but once guys are on the field, it doesn't. You just want a team built to win.

chisoxfanatic
05-02-2012, 11:14 AM
I really wish the Sox could play Cleveland more than they already do.

Bruizer
05-02-2012, 11:35 AM
Great game to be at! Especially with the Smoke on the Water over the field messing up the Indians after the home runs! :cool:

TDog
05-02-2012, 12:17 PM
I disagree. With Danks signing the richest pitching contract in Sox history, he needs to pitch as a #1.

It's irrelevant what he gets paid. And if salaries determined the starting rotation, Peavy would be the No. 1 starter anyway. Peavy is paid more than Danks, Sale and Humber combined. Peavy represents more than 43 percent of the salary allotted for the starting rotation. Some would say it's about time Peavy emerged as the No. 1 starter.

A winning baseball team will generally have players outperforming teammate whose salary is 10 times higher, even if everyone is playing well.

kufram
05-02-2012, 01:12 PM
I don't really see any point in calling anybody the number one or number two starter after the first time through the rotation. We have 5 starters and we need them all to be number 1 on their day. So far each one has done that more than not.... so I'm happy.

Wouldn't a lot of issues be solved if Beckham can only find at least some hitting success? I'd love Robin to be shown as prescient for sticking by him.

FielderJones
05-02-2012, 01:44 PM
He's gotta do it sometime. Why not work on it in a blowout? For him to make it here, he can't have batters tee off on his fastball alone.
I don't think Hector should be closing either, I think Reed is the man for that.

Five runs isn't a blowout, especially if you walk two batters because you're nibbling or just can't hit your spots. Santiago was one pitch away from making it a one-run game.

Frankly, I don't want to see Santiago in the 9th inning at all, under any circumstances. Let him work out his problems in garbage time, not when a game is on the line.

Foulke You
05-02-2012, 02:33 PM
I think there will be some growing pains with Sale later this year as he fatigues but there seems to be no reason to me to not think that by 2013 or 2014 Sale will be one of the elite SP in the A.L. Ceiling is that high on this kid.
Agreed. When Sale refines that changeup and gets more experience as an SP, I really believe he will become the ace of this staff. He has three wins right now primarily using his fastball and slider. I also like how he has been changing speeds on his fastball more as a starter.

TDog
05-02-2012, 02:38 PM
I don't really see any point in calling anybody the number one or number two starter after the first time through the rotation. We have 5 starters and we need them all to be number 1 on their day. So far each one has done that more than not.... so I'm happy. ...

As a White Sox fan, you should be happy with the starting rotation. And you're absolutely right in your assessment. Analysts assign numbers to starters, but they don't mean much in practical terms, especially when the last White Sox starter to start is the one who pitched a perfect game. Ideally, you don't want to have a rotation built around one pitcher (see Detroit). I think it was in 1973, maybe 1974, when the we as Sox fans were saying, "Wood and Bahnsen and pray for a monsoon."

As for Santiago and the five-run lead, I don't see what the concern is. Managers typically don't overwork their closers by bringing them in with five-run leads. Santiago coming into that situation, in which he didn't even face the tying run, despite his ineffectiveness in the scoreless inning, is what you would expect to see if Ventura had lost confidence in him as the closer.

Nellie_Fox
05-02-2012, 03:32 PM
Agreed. When Sale refines that changeup and gets more experience as an SP, I really believe he will become the ace of this staff. He has three wins right now primarily using his fastball and slider. I also like how he has been changing speeds on his fastball more as a starter.Stone also says he's changing speeds on the slider as well.