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View Full Version : Freeze Frame of Check Swing Strikeout - Last Out of Humber's Perfect Game


SoxThunder
04-21-2012, 09:49 PM
Although FOX never showed the side camera angle, this freeze frame shows Ryan went around. Great game, Phil! Congrats!!!!!

tebman
04-21-2012, 09:54 PM
Great image! I watched the replay several times and it looked to me like he went around, though it was tough to follow because of the distraction of the ball getting away from Pierzynski.

Good to know the perfecto isn't tainted!

:gulp:

ChiSoxGal85
04-21-2012, 10:24 PM
Great picture! thanks!

GlassSox
04-21-2012, 10:27 PM
Outstanding, thanks

Zakath
04-21-2012, 10:29 PM
Although FOX never showed the side camera angle, this freeze frame shows Ryan went around. Great game, Phil! Congrats!!!!!

The rule book does not contain a definition of when a check swing turns into an actual swing, but the two usual measures are whether the batter "broke" his wrists, or whether the bat crosses the front of the plate. He clearly didn't break his wrists, but it looks fairly certain that the bat crossed the front of the plate.

Madvora
04-21-2012, 10:57 PM
Oh god. AJ just looks like he's in such a bad position for the ball.

TDog
04-22-2012, 03:42 AM
The rule book does not contain a definition of when a check swing turns into an actual swing, but the two usual measures are whether the batter "broke" his wrists, or whether the bat crosses the front of the plate. He clearly didn't break his wrists, but it looks fairly certain that the bat crossed the front of the plate.

The rule book defines a swinging strike as a ball the hitter strikes at and misses. The rules committee has never taken the judgment of what constitutes offering at a pitch away from the umpire.

The working definition used to be whether a batter broke his wrists. Around 40 years ago, the process of appealing to the umpire down the line came into play because that umpire can better see if a hitter broke his wrists. The the umpires started using the bat-crossing-the plate guideline. The homeplate umpire can better see if the bat crosses that plate than an umpire more than 100 feet away, but they still appeal down the bases when it isn't a wrist-breaking question. The result, I think, is a vague interpretation of the swinging-strike rule.

I didn't believe Ryan offered at the pitch. I watch the replays, and I still don't. And I wanted very much to see the pitch as a strike. I am happy that I haven't yet heard any commentators agreeing with me. Obviously, I was wrong, and I am happy to have been wrong.

Falstaff
04-22-2012, 04:06 AM
I watch again again and clearly the batter is tied up, sort of lunges at the
pitch and was clearly fooled, did a wombly attempt to handle that pitch and was way off balance because he was trying to hit ball where pitched.
Not just kickin back on heels watching pitch skid into dirt. Batter was fooled and going for it with poor technique. That is what me and umpire saw.
Hopey Chris Sale was watching what can be done with offspeed junk too.

kufram
04-22-2012, 06:41 AM
I kind of think everybody, including the batter, was trying to do the right thing there. Batters want to get a hit in that situation. They don't really want to take a walk to ruin a perfect game. They want to get a hit to ruin a perfect game. The check swing is an arbitrary thing and I think the ump gave the benefit of doubt to the pitcher because of the situation. I don't think anyone will ever devalue the perfect game because of the last pitch.

dickallen15
04-22-2012, 08:52 AM
Oh god. AJ just looks like he's in such a bad position for the ball.
Johnny Bench in his prime would have had a tough time with that ball. It wasn't close to being a strike. Thankfully the guy cried to the umpire or it would have been very close at first base.

dickallen15
04-22-2012, 08:55 AM
I kind of think everybody, including the batter, was trying to do the right thing there. Batters want to get a hit in that situation. They don't really want to take a walk to ruin a perfect game. They want to get a hit to ruin a perfect game. The check swing is an arbitrary thing and I think the ump gave the benefit of doubt to the pitcher because of the situation. I don't think anyone will ever devalue the perfect game because of the last pitch.
I just think he was anticipating strike. Humber wasn't that far off with any other pitch all day. The Mariners did have a guy try to bunt which is a sin in baseball to break up no hitters and had another batter shorten up as if to bunt, but he didn't so it could have been all for show. I don't think there are many people that didn't think the batter swung at the pitch.

ChiSoxGal85
04-22-2012, 11:41 AM
SouthSideSox posted this screen grab, which I think verifies that he really did go 'round:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1075417/1335055452264.png

This is from this article, btw: http://www.southsidesox.com/2012/4/22/2966315/ruminations-on-philip-humbers-perfect-game#storyjump

ernie14
04-22-2012, 11:49 AM
Where's Ramon Castro? :scratch:

voodoochile
04-22-2012, 11:54 AM
I thought he swung when I saw the only replay they showed in game, but I admit I am biased.

DumpJerry
04-22-2012, 11:57 AM
Where's Ramon Castro? :scratch:
Dunno. It seems (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/castrra01.shtml) that nobody picked him up this year.

Moses_Scurry
04-22-2012, 12:07 PM
I almost always think that they swing when they show the replay. Even when the commentator says it is not the case. I've never really understood the rule.

sox1970
04-22-2012, 12:15 PM
What I would like to know is if Ryan busted it down the line right away, how close would the play be at 1B? That would have been more exciting.

aryzner
04-22-2012, 01:19 PM
In my life I have never seen a wrist break as necessarily being the thing that makes it a swing but rather if the bat crosses the front of the plate as has been talked about in this thread. That being said, I think he definitely went. Sure looks like it to me.

central44
04-22-2012, 01:53 PM
Yup, as soon as I saw it I was convinced he went around, even before the announcers called it that way. Of course, i'm biased as hell but it's good to see that most people agree with the umpire's call.

sox1970
04-22-2012, 03:13 PM
Yup, as soon as I saw it I was convinced he went around, even before the announcers called it that way. Of course, i'm biased as hell but it's good to see that most people agree with the umpire's call.

In a way, it's better the ball got away. If AJ catches it, then the home ump has time to go to the 1st base ump. When the ball gets away, the home ump has to make the call himself...or is more likely to make the call himself. It was borderline. In the situation, the ump made the right call.

FielderJones
04-22-2012, 03:23 PM
SouthSideSox posted this screen grab, which I think verifies that he really did go 'round:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1075417/1335055452264.png


The head of the bat is clearly a foot or so in front of the plate; I don't know how anyone could argue that's not a strike. The MLB video (http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=20811237&c_id=cws) that the screen cap is from shows some rather deft wrist work by Ryan to pull the bat back into a cocked position.

Broccoli Rob
04-22-2012, 03:25 PM
I'm as thrilled as any other Sox fan, called my father after the game, everything. But it's a little sketchy when there's no (incredibly common) side replay. Fact is, no matter how close it was, you better hit the ****ing ball when you commit that much to swinging. It's going to be a strike.

That SouthSideSox screengrab isn't at 90 degrees so I'm not sure what it proves.

voodoochile
04-22-2012, 03:50 PM
It's kind of amusing because I still had the Gamecast running but was trying to watch on TV, but Gamecast was updating faster than the video was appearing on TV, so I'm looking back and forth back and forth trying to find out what is happening/going to happen as soon as I can and I must have been on a neck swivel when the play happened. By the time I got to the TV (not knowing it was strike three yet on Gamecast) the batter was hopping up and down on the line yelling at the ump and AJ was retrieving the baseball and throwing to first. So I missed the actual check swing in question and had no idea why the guy was mad. I was left wondering if he was arguing catcher interference until they showed the replay and realized it was a check swing strike which took a few minutes to get to because of them covering the dogpile.

ChiSoxGal85
04-22-2012, 07:56 PM
http://didbrendanryanswing.com/

:rolling:

Wedema
04-22-2012, 09:42 PM
http://didbrendanryanswing.com/

:rolling:

From that angle, it definately looks like a swing to me!

slavko
04-22-2012, 11:20 PM
SouthSideSox posted this screen grab, which I think verifies that he really did go 'round:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1075417/1335055452264.png

This is from this article, btw: http://www.southsidesox.com/2012/4/22/2966315/ruminations-on-philip-humbers-perfect-game#storyjump

In a way, it's better the ball got away. If AJ catches it, then the home ump has time to go to the 1st base ump. When the ball gets away, the home ump has to make the call himself...or is more likely to make the call himself. It was borderline. In the situation, the ump made the right call.

Bat crossed plate = swing. Great picture. Great analysis in the sox1970 post. S'why I pay you guys those big bucks.

bigdommer
04-23-2012, 03:01 PM
Oh god. AJ just looks like he's in such a bad position for the ball.

I wonder if the glasses affect him when he reaches so far and turns his head a full 90 degrees. I have caught quite a few games and ditched the glasses after one inning. They were great with my head still but because disorienting whenever I turned.

One good thing about the "check" swing is that I have finally heard some sports radio knuckleheads get some education on the rule book. There are no "planes" or "breaking" of wrists. It's just a judgment call. Deal with it.

Wedema
04-23-2012, 08:00 PM
What I would like to know is if Ryan busted it down the line right away, how close would the play be at 1B? That would have been more exciting.


I think that he still would have been out, as the ball did not end up that far away from AJ.