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View Full Version : *Official* "We hang 'em, they bang 'em" Postgame Thread 4/19


kittle42
04-19-2012, 04:23 PM
I felt the breeze off those Sox whiffs from downtown.

Jurr
04-19-2012, 04:23 PM
Jeez. Lollypop curves go a LONG WAY.

doublem23
04-19-2012, 04:24 PM
By my count we left the bases loaded 3 times, right?

6-6... On to Seattle

WhiteSox5187
04-19-2012, 04:25 PM
That last call was awful but we struck out what? Sixteen times? Those weren't all on blown third strike calls. That AB to Jones was another killer. At the end of the day we are just about a .500 team.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
04-19-2012, 04:26 PM
Well, that sucked.

At least Dunn looked good again.

soltrain21
04-19-2012, 04:26 PM
Won't do much damage losing 3 of 4 to the Orioles, but it's nice to see Dunn be useful.

asindc
04-19-2012, 04:26 PM
By my count we left the bases loaded 3 times, right?

6-6... On to Seattle

We are 1 for 10 with the bases loaded so far this year. Our worst hitter from last year has that one hit.

JB98
04-19-2012, 04:27 PM
Floyd is such a space cadet. It was like he had no idea there was a base open and an 0-for-20 hitter on deck.

Those two runs on that hanging curve to Jones cost the game. Mistakes like that are the reason he is a career .500 pitcher.

voodoochile
04-19-2012, 04:27 PM
I'm sorry but both the final strike call to DeAza and the final strike call to Rios cannot BOTH be strikes...

I realize it was a getaway day game but the home ump sucked.

Still Floyd's the one who made that gawdawful pitch to Jones. I think I could have hit that pitch (though obviously not as far).

Ugh...

LITTLE NELL
04-19-2012, 04:27 PM
Lose 3 of 4 at home to the O's, not good.
I also question Robin sitting Beckham, guy finally breaks out of a slump with 2 hits last night and he sits today, hey Robin go with the hot hand.

asindc
04-19-2012, 04:28 PM
I felt the breeze off those Sox whiffs from downtown.

I like your title better.

Cat Thief
04-19-2012, 04:32 PM
Morel actually scored at the end. 5-4 final. :cool:

ChiSoxGal85
04-19-2012, 04:32 PM
Floyd is such a space cadet. It was like he had no idea there was a base open and an 0-for-20 hitter on deck.

Those two runs on that hanging curve to Jones cost the game. Mistakes like that are the reason he is a career .500 pitcher.
Is that on Floyd, or on Flowers calling the pitch, or both?

Signs of life in the 9th inning is always good. But Sox had their opportunities - bases loaded, thrice, and no runs scored? Ugh.

Escobar and Lillibridge didn't display any compelling reasons to play them in place of Beckham and Morel. Dunn's looking pretty good, Rios has been quietly performing (well exact maybe that last at-bat). I hope Paul's hand is ok.

Let's go pound 'em on the west coast.

Lip Man 1
04-19-2012, 04:32 PM
Another garbage loss to a garbage team with a garbage pitcher.

It shouldn't bother me but it does.

Same old Sox... play well against good teams (Texas, Detroit) fall flat on their faces against trash teams.

Floyd's been doing that for the last three years, never came close to his 2008 performance. He'll pitch great for a month, six weeks then get the **** beat out of him.

Lip

asindc
04-19-2012, 04:34 PM
Floyd is such a space cadet. It was like he had no idea there was a base open and an 0-for-20 hitter on deck.

Those two runs on that hanging curve to Jones cost the game. Mistakes like that are the reason he is a career .500 pitcher.

That's exactly what I was thinking after he served up that batting practice roller. Floyd strikes me as a pitcher who is lights out when he has all his stuff working, but is literally confused about what to do when it is not. I sincerely believe that at least half the posters here would have thrown a high strike out of the zone on that 3-2 pitch and gladly taken their chances with Johnson if Adam "If the Sox keep throwing me gopher balls, I'm going to hurt 'em" Jones did not offer at it. Floyd simply did not pitch smart today, and he has been pitching too long to have games like this.:shakehead:

GoGoCrede
04-19-2012, 04:34 PM
Still love Floyd, but that sounded painful to watch. Oh well.

I was hoping to get a split. I don't know what it is about the Orioles that renders the Sox incapable of winning more than one or two games, but whatever.

Aesero
04-19-2012, 04:35 PM
Bleh, so many strikeouts. Can't get a hit with the bases loaded again just like last season. Didn't like the lack of Beckham, especially after last nights game. With him in the Os may not have scored those two early runs. The one for sure where the runner would have been held at second instead of giving him third for free.

I hated the umpiring in the ninth. I have no idea how that started happening like that. Just some awful calls there. I didn't get to see a replay of the Rios strike there, so I don't know how bad it was. Rios had been doing much better the last few days, and it hurts seeing him go down like that.

Crestani
04-19-2012, 04:38 PM
11 LOB....16 k's says it all..!!

kufram
04-19-2012, 04:38 PM
It's never fun losing but the ump definitely wanted to catch the plane in the 9th. I still see this team has possibilities. Can't strike out 14-15 times each game but that will probably improve. We're in games in the 9th even if we're down a couple which is a huge improvement

JB98
04-19-2012, 04:39 PM
Is that on Floyd, or on Flowers calling the pitch, or both?

Signs of life in the 9th inning is always good. But Sox had their opportunities - bases loaded, thrice, and no runs scored? Ugh.

Escobar and Lillibridge didn't display any compelling reasons to play them in place of Beckham and Morel. Dunn's looking pretty good, Rios has been quietly performing (well exact maybe that last at-bat). I hope Paul's hand is ok.

Let's go pound 'em on the west coast.

100 percent on Floyd.

The curve is the correct pitch selection there. That's Gavin's out pitch. So Flowers did his job.

However, you have to throw that pitch with conviction. If you walk Jones in that spot, so what? Start over with the weaker hitter on deck. Instead, he looked like he was afraid to walk Jones and just lobbed a loopy curve over the center of the plate. As Hawk says, 3-2 get-me-overs go a long way.

It was a mental mistake more than anything, and that shouldn't be happening with a pitcher of Floyd's experience level.

Milw
04-19-2012, 04:40 PM
The Rios called strike three looked good to me in real time and it looked good to me on replay.

What didn't look good? Rios standing there arguing while the catcher retrieved the ball instead of running to first to keep the game alive. It got far enough away that had he actually hustled it would have been at the very least a close play.

The White Sox keep telling us to "appreciate the game." Tell you what, I'll appreciate the game as soon as Rios respects it by playing hard. I ****ing despise that guy. :angry:

asindc
04-19-2012, 04:41 PM
I'm sorry but both the final strike call to DeAza and the final strike call to Rios cannot BOTH be strikes...

I realize it was a getaway day game but the home ump sucked.

Still Floyd's the one who made that gawdawful pitch to Jones. I think I could have hit that pitch (though obviously not as far).

Ugh...

Bleh, so many strikeouts. Can't get a hit with the bases loaded again just like last season. Didn't like the lack of Beckham, especially after last nights game. With him in the Os may not have scored those two early runs. The one for sure where the runner would have been held at second instead of giving him third for free.

I hated the umpiring in the ninth. I have no idea how that started happening like that. Just some awful calls there. I didn't get to see a replay of the Rios strike there, so I don't know how bad it was. Rios had been doing much better the last few days, and it hurts seeing him go down like that.

Watching the Baltimore telecast yesterday, both Gary Thorne and Jim Palmer talked about how bad the ball-and-strikes calling has been in this series. They have been fair in pointing out how it has been bad for both teams. In fact, Palmer said it has gotten worse in recent years and he "doesn't know how they continue to get away with it."

Still, bad clutch hitting in this game, particularly by our younger hitters, and bad clutch pitching by Gavin.

guillensdisciple
04-19-2012, 04:50 PM
Only caught bits and pieces on tv at the gym and the rest on my phone but I think this one goes squarely on Floyd. I'm not gonna repeat what I said in the game thread about the guy, but I am happy with how rios and Dunn have been playing so far. Hopefully it carries on in the next series. We really can win against the mariners, and I think this nex series determines how good we are. Coming off of a losing series that was exceptionally close can leave a team deflated. Let's see what we can do. That said, I don't expect the sox to make a run, but the tigers are going to run away with this division at the rate everything is going. One great team, and a whole bunch of mediocrity.

doublem23
04-19-2012, 04:51 PM
16 K so by my count, with Viciedo's DP and De Aza's CS that means we only made 9 outs on the field

kufram
04-19-2012, 04:53 PM
It's a long season. Nothing determines anything yet.

October26
04-19-2012, 05:05 PM
11 LOB....16 k's says it all..!!

16 strikeouts? Yikes!

I was driving my son to a therapy appointment late this afternoon, so I could only follow this game on the radio. I've watched a lot of White Sox games and I don't ever remember the Sox striking out 16 times in a game. And 11 runners left on base. Yuck.

Oh well, onto the west coast the Sox go.

kittle42
04-19-2012, 05:06 PM
It's a long season. Nothing determines anything yet.

True, but even the team itself basically stated it did not have to make the playoffs to consider the season a success and most people seem to get that it's a rebuilding year.

Expecting nothing and maybe being extremely surprised is the way I'm going.

I haven't really been joyful over any win except the one I was at, nor have I been gloomy over any loss, even the Santiago implosion. I would rather have the passion, but this is actually a nice change for a season after the last 3.

veeter
04-19-2012, 05:09 PM
I have a good feeling about this team...sorry. No I'm not.

guillensdisciple
04-19-2012, 05:10 PM
True, but even the team itself basically stated it did not have to make the playoffs to consider the season a success and most people seem to get that it's a rebuilding year.

Expecting nothing and maybe being extremely surprised is the way I'm going.

I haven't really been joyful over any win except the one I was at, nor have I been gloomy over any loss, even the Santiago implosion. I would rather have the passion, but this is actually a nice change for a season after the last 3.

With you there, I was dying with every pitch prior to this year. I am glad I finally have a year that I don't do so. Hopefully this level headedness maintains for the rest of my life with the sox. Unfortunately, I will probably see one or two more championships in my lifetime. If I am
EXTREMELY lucky

October26
04-19-2012, 05:10 PM
It's a long season. Nothing determines anything yet.

Absolutely. And I will give this Sox team credit for battling. They do not give up and I like that.

DickAllen72
04-19-2012, 05:22 PM
What didn't look good? Rios standing there arguing while the catcher retrieved the ball instead of running to first to keep the game alive. It got far enough away that had he actually hustled it would have been at the very least a close play.

The White Sox keep telling us to "appreciate the game." Tell you what, I'll appreciate the game as soon as Rios respects it by playing hard. I ****ing despise that guy. :angry:
If Rios started running to first, all the catcher had to do was tag the plate because the bases were loaded.

russ99
04-19-2012, 05:28 PM
16K's Just awful. Who was pitching for Baltimore, Cy Young?

Starting to think that maybe Walker wasn't the problem and that we have the most impatient hitters in the universe on our roster.

chisoxfanatic
04-19-2012, 05:34 PM
What is it with Baltimore?

LITTLE NELL
04-19-2012, 05:36 PM
16K's Just awful. Who was pitching for Baltimore, Cy Young?

Starting to think that maybe Walker wasn't the problem and that we have the most impatient hitters in the universe on our roster.

After todays game, 95 Ks and only 29 walks. You might be on to something there.

Harry Potter
04-19-2012, 05:39 PM
While I'm pleasantly surprised this team is 6-6, poor fundamentals continue to kill this team.

Oh well, looking forward to seeing our beloved out in Seattle this weekend!

Paulwny
04-19-2012, 05:40 PM
16K's Just awful. Who was pitching for Baltimore, Cy Young?

Starting to think that maybe Walker wasn't the problem and that we have the most impatient hitters in the universe on our roster.

After todays game, 95 Ks and only 29 walks. You might be on to something there.

You may be correct, impatience. I can understand power hitters stricking out, but the light weights on this team have trouble making contact.

palehozenychicty
04-19-2012, 05:42 PM
Floyd is such a space cadet. It was like he had no idea there was a base open and an 0-for-20 hitter on deck.

Those two runs on that hanging curve to Jones cost the game. Mistakes like that are the reason he is a career .500 pitcher.

Indeed. He has never quite turned that corner from a decent to a great pitcher. It's too bad, because at least Cooper made him more consistent. But inconsistently so.

palehozenychicty
04-19-2012, 05:43 PM
Another garbage loss to a garbage team with a garbage pitcher.

It shouldn't bother me but it does.

Same old Sox... play well against good teams (Texas, Detroit) fall flat on their faces against trash teams.

Floyd's been doing that for the last three years, never came close to his 2008 performance. He'll pitch great for a month, six weeks then get the **** beat out of him.

Lip

The Sox are what they are: a middling team.

JB98
04-19-2012, 05:56 PM
16K's Just awful. Who was pitching for Baltimore, Cy Young?

Starting to think that maybe Walker wasn't the problem and that we have the most impatient hitters in the universe on our roster.

Walker was most certainly part of the problem. He just wasn't the whole problem.

Last year, the Sox had a lot of 1-2-3 eighth and ninth innings while they were trailing. They would just give away at-bats.

This year, they are at least threatening in the late innings. They just can't seem to get that one breakthrough hit to finish off a rally.

shingo10
04-19-2012, 06:14 PM
Another garbage loss to a garbage team with a garbage pitcher.

It shouldn't bother me but it does.

Same old Sox... play well against good teams (Texas, Detroit) fall flat on their faces against trash teams.

Floyd's been doing that for the last three years, never came close to his 2008 performance. He'll pitch great for a month, six weeks then get the **** beat out of him.

Lip


You do realize Baltimore is in first place? 3 of the Sox 4 series have been against 1st place teams. The one "bad" team they played they took care of. Yes they should have at the minimum had a split but I'm happy that we have a chance to go above .500 this weekend.

Like they say "you can't win a division in April but you can sure lose one." The Sox have done this the past 2 years and I don't think they are going to do it again.

doublem23
04-19-2012, 06:24 PM
16K's Just awful. Who was pitching for Baltimore, Cy Young?

Starting to think that maybe Walker wasn't the problem and that we have the most impatient hitters in the universe on our roster.

Jeff Manto has been the hitting coach of the White Sox for less than 1% of the time Greg Walker was. Despite the fact this offense looks as punchless as it did for most of Walker's actual tenure, he is clearly blameless because they haven't made radical and fundamental changes to their approach in 2 weeks.

doublem23
04-19-2012, 06:26 PM
You do realize Baltimore is in first place? 3 of the Sox 4 series have been against 1st place teams. The one "bad" team they played they took care of. Yes they should have at the minimum had a split but I'm happy that we have a chance to go above .500 this weekend.

Like they say "you can't win a division in April but you can sure lose one." The Sox have done this the past 2 years and I don't think they are going to do it again.

Baltimore is in first place because 6 of their now 8 wins are courtesy of the Sox and Twins. When they played the Yankees, a team actually a good bet to contend all year long, they got spanked around like the ****ty collection of ****ty players they ****ty are.

JB98
04-19-2012, 06:34 PM
Baltimore is in first place because 6 of their now 8 wins are courtesy of the Sox and Twins. When they played the Yankees, a team actually a good bet to contend all year long, they got spanked around like the ****ty collection of ****ty players they ****ty are.

Yeah, I agree, the Orioles aren't good. Thing is, the Sox are pretty limited, too, so I'm not going to spend too much time lamenting losing to "garbage teams."

In past years, I thought the Sox were guilty of playing to the level of their competition. This year, not so much. If the Sox lose a series to a bad team, it's because they aren't very good either.

Zakath
04-19-2012, 06:36 PM
Out of 162 games last year, the Sox had double digits in K's 16 times.

In 12 games this year, we've already done it 5 times.

18 times in 2010. 17 in 2009, which includes the last time the Sox struck out 16 times in one game (8-12-2009, a 1-0 loss at Seattle in 14 innings). The previous time before that was a 19-inning, 6-5 win over Boston (7-9-2006).

The last time the Sox struck out 16 times in a 9-inning game was September 17, 2005 in a 5-0 loss at Minnesota.

To find a number higher than that, you have to go all the way back to August 8, 1997, when the Sox whiffed 19 times in a 5-0 loss to Seattle. Some guy named Randy Johnson was on the hill for the M's.

Boondock Saint
04-19-2012, 06:38 PM
It's time to find a buyer for Gavin. He's never going to "figure it out". He's too wildly inconsistent to be relied upon.

palehozenychicty
04-19-2012, 06:39 PM
Yeah, I agree, the Orioles aren't good. Thing is, the Sox are pretty limited, too, so I'm not going to spend too much time lamenting losing to "garbage teams."

In past years, I thought the Sox were guilty of playing to the level of their competition. This year, not so much. If the Sox lose a series to a bad team, it's because they aren't very good either.

Indeed. People here seem to believe that the Sox have this otherworldly talent base. They've been an average team since '09.

JB98
04-19-2012, 06:48 PM
It's time to find a buyer for Gavin. He's never going to "figure it out". He's too wildly inconsistent to be relied upon.

Can't disagree. Wonder how long it will be until Nestor Molina (or some other farmhand) is ready for a shot. When you have somebody ready, then you move Floyd.

Zakath
04-19-2012, 06:52 PM
After todays game, 95 Ks and only 29 walks. You might be on to something there.

Actually, it's 111 K's and 35 BB's. Most places like baseball-reference.com hadn't included today's numbers in the totals.

SoxSpeed22
04-19-2012, 07:08 PM
Too many mistakes and not enough cashing in on opportunities. Oh well.

shingo10
04-19-2012, 07:49 PM
Baltimore is in first place because 6 of their now 8 wins are courtesy of the Sox and Twins. When they played the Yankees, a team actually a good bet to contend all year long, they got spanked around like the ****ty collection of ****ty players they ****ty are.


They don't seem to have any pitching but I don't think anyone can deny how good their offense can be. The thing about it is it is just too early to get an accurate read on the season. Hell most of the time it's not until July or August when a team clearly shows what they are. Every year there are teams like Arizona last year or us in 2005. Not saying Baltimore is going to do that but its just too early yet to say they are a "garbage" team in my opinion.

DSpivack
04-19-2012, 08:00 PM
They don't seem to have any pitching but I don't think anyone can deny how good their offense can be. The thing about it is it is just too early to get an accurate read on the season. Hell most of the time it's not until July or August when a team clearly shows what they are. Every year there are teams like Arizona last year or us in 2005. Not saying Baltimore is going to do that but its just too early yet to say they are a "garbage" team in my opinion.

Wieters is off to a hot start, maybe he'll have a breakout year this season and fulfill his vast potential.

KMcMahon817
04-19-2012, 08:09 PM
The Rios called strike three looked good to me in real time and it looked good to me on replay.

What didn't look good? Rios standing there arguing while the catcher retrieved the ball instead of running to first to keep the game alive. It got far enough away that had he actually hustled it would have been at the very least a close play.

The White Sox keep telling us to "appreciate the game." Tell you what, I'll appreciate the game as soon as Rios respects it by playing hard. I ****ing despise that guy. :angry:

Rios and 80% of all MLB players would have had the same reaction. Rios has actually been somewhat decent this year, to be perfectly honest.

TDog
04-19-2012, 08:17 PM
The biggest difference between this year's 6-6 start and last year's 7-5 start is that this year the postgame thread posts aren't filled with demands to fire the hitting coach.

Another big difference is that this White Sox team seems to strike out a lot more than last year's team.

Last year's team won 7 of its first 11 games, but it was the first roadtrip after the first homestand that fans remember as the poor start to the season. Even if you're in first place the second week of April, it's going to be a long season.

SoxSpeed22
04-19-2012, 08:39 PM
I've said before, I would rather see a strikeout on 2-2 or 3-2 than constantly grounding to third or popping up the first or second pitches constantly. The only reason strikeouts were low last year, was because they would hack at everything and either hit a soft grounder or pop up early in the count.
I've also said that Walker got way too much blame for how things went last year, but he wasn't exempt from terrible approaches at the plate and a complete lack of adjustments against pitchers (see Chen, Bruce or Pavano, Carl). But Doublem23 is right that it's only been a few weeks, so Manto hasn't really had much of an opportunity to do much with these guys.
Also, I will be thrilled, if we finish around .500 this season.

Lip Man 1
04-19-2012, 08:53 PM
Shingo:

The O's will have 90 losses by the end of the season. They are a perfect definition of a "garbage" team.

JB:

Again like Monday I understand and agree with your thoughts but that doesn't mean I don't get pissed as **** at the pure incompetence that I've been seeing.

Personally I think this team DOES have the talent to win 82 games and have a winning season. I honestly do, and that's what frustrates me. These are winnable games that add up...and they are doing the same old ****.

Like I said its just aggravating to me.

Lip

kittle42
04-19-2012, 09:42 PM
You do realize Baltimore is in first place? 3 of the Sox 4 series have been against 1st place teams. The one "bad" team they played they took care of.

Who is in first place in weeks 1 and 2 in the season is not really indicative of whether they are a quality team.

Milw
04-19-2012, 09:53 PM
If Rios started running to first, all the catcher had to do was tag the plate because the bases were loaded.
Morel crossed the plate before the tag was applied to Rios. Well before, by like 3 seconds. So try again.

Milw
04-19-2012, 09:55 PM
Rios and 80% of all MLB players would have had the same reaction. Rios has actually been somewhat decent this year, to be perfectly honest.
First of all, that's BS; the ball got well away. Second of all, they deserve to be called out on it every time.

shingo10
04-19-2012, 10:37 PM
Who is in first place in weeks 1 and 2 in the season is not really indicative of whether they are a quality team.

But its indicative of what you are playing at the time. The Sox have caught 3 first place teams. Whether they finish there or not is a different story.

So yes maybe the Orioles will be a "garbage" team but I don't think its fair to say they are right now. They are playing winning baseball. The Sox were a garbage team for much of 2010 but anyone who caught them on there 11 game winning streak didn't think so.

I think we caught them at the wrong time. That's all I'm saying.

Brian26
04-19-2012, 10:45 PM
I'm sorry but both the final strike call to DeAza and the final strike call to Rios cannot BOTH be strikes...

Nor was the first strike to Konerko. Johnson tried to go back out there three times to try to grab another strike before the phantom HBP on PK. The home plate ump was brutal.

Brian26
04-19-2012, 10:48 PM
I hated the umpiring in the ninth. I have no idea how that started happening like that. Just some awful calls there. I didn't get to see a replay of the Rios strike there, so I don't know how bad it was. Rios had been doing much better the last few days, and it hurts seeing him go down like that.

Rios will never lose the loafer mentality. I won't even get on him for not running on the dropped third strike in the 9th, but there was a dropped-third strike earlier in the game that he was day-dreaming on and didn't start running for about two seconds and then barely made it to first safely.

DSpivack
04-19-2012, 10:49 PM
Rios will never lose the loafer mentality. I won't even get on him for not running on the dropped third strike in the 9th, but there was a dropped-third strike earlier in the game that he was day-dreaming on and didn't start running for about two seconds and then barely made it to first safely.

I thought you can only run to first on a dropped 3rd strike if 1st base is open. Am I confused on that rule?

Brian26
04-19-2012, 10:50 PM
16 strikeouts? Yikes!

I was driving my son to a therapy appointment late this afternoon, so I could only follow this game on the radio. I've watched a lot of White Sox games and I don't ever remember the Sox striking out 16 times in a game. And 11 runners left on base. Yuck.

They had 15 strikeouts on opening day. They're averaging 10 Ks a game.

Brian26
04-19-2012, 10:52 PM
If Rios started running to first, all the catcher had to do was tag the plate because the bases were loaded.

Morel beat him to homeplate and was safe, so the throw had to go to first.

Brian26
04-19-2012, 10:54 PM
After todays game, 95 Ks and only 29 walks. You might be on to something there.

It's up to 111 Ks after 12 games. It was 95 Ks before today's game.

Brian26
04-19-2012, 10:55 PM
It's time to find a buyer for Gavin. He's never going to "figure it out". He's too wildly inconsistent to be relied upon.

That will make the 2nd half of the season extremely exciting after Peavy gets dealt to the Nationals and we see Zach Stewart and Nestor Molina join the rotation.

Brian26
04-19-2012, 10:58 PM
Rios and 80% of all MLB players would have had the same reaction. Rios has actually been somewhat decent this year, to be perfectly honest.

To stand there and argue the call and not run to first? You're telling me that last play didn't look like a train-wreck? Both teams were in shock that it ended that way, with Morel crossing the plate and running into Rios who was still standing there with his arms out-stretched.

Brian26
04-19-2012, 11:00 PM
I've said before, I would rather see a strikeout on 2-2 or 3-2 than constantly grounding to third or popping up the first or second pitches constantly. The only reason strikeouts were low last year, was because they would hack at everything and either hit a soft grounder or pop up early in the count.
I've also said that Walker got way too much blame for how things went last year, but he wasn't exempt from terrible approaches at the plate and a complete lack of adjustments against pitchers (see Chen, Bruce or Pavano, Carl). But Doublem23 is right that it's only been a few weeks, so Manto hasn't really had much of an opportunity to do much with these guys.

This is a good post. Also, I've noticed the Sox hitters generally hitting more line-drives and groundballs this year rather than swinging for the fences. Although the results are there yet, there's definitely a positive change in the overall approach.

Brian26
04-19-2012, 11:03 PM
I thought you can only run to first on a dropped 3rd strike if 1st base is open. Am I confused on that rule?

The batter can try to take first if first base is open or if there are two outs.

Brian26
04-19-2012, 11:05 PM
Baseball games like this are made for DVR. I zoomed through the game in 45 minutes, saw every pitch, missed every commercial, and still have time to come here six hours later and bitch about Rios. :tongue:

DSpivack
04-19-2012, 11:07 PM
Baseball games like this are made for DVR. I zoomed through the game in 45 minutes, saw every pitch, missed every commercial, and still have time to come here six hours later and bitch about Rios. :tongue:

I am not a current subscriber to MLB.tv, but they used to have (and still do, AFAIK) a condensed game feature, which show those exact highlights. I think games usually run around 15 minutes (and as the games are posted a day later, there are no blackout rules).

Noneck
04-19-2012, 11:29 PM
They had 15 strikeouts on opening day. They're averaging 10 Ks a game.

Thats not against great KO pitchers and this is not a slugger type lineup. This is a very bad situation.

Nellie_Fox
04-20-2012, 12:15 AM
Starting to think that maybe Walker wasn't the problem...Unpossible.

October26
04-20-2012, 07:21 AM
They had 15 strikeouts on opening day. They're averaging 10 Ks a game.

Your post made me think, did I really miss the Sox striking out 15 times on Opening Day? This is entirely possible, of course, as I'm usually pretty giddy on Opening Day. I must have been distracted by being in attendance at the Sox Home Opener and was not paying attention to the strikeouts. Or maybe it's that when the Sox win, I'm happy and when they lose, I begin to dissect the numbers.

Well, they sure did. The box score from the Home Opener (April 13th) confirms that the Sox struck out 15 times (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=320413104).

The Sox also struck out 13 times (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=320406113) in the Season Opener (April 6th) against Texas.

And yes, that 10-strikeouts-per-game average is daunting. This means that it is more than Beckham, Dunn, and Morel striking out every game, too. I know that Viciedo struck out 3 times yesterday because my dad called me to give me that bad news :(:. The runners LOB stat for the Sox for both of their Opening Days (13 on April 6th; 7 on April 13th) tells us what we already know: that the Sox are struggling to get that clutch hit and that they have left lots of runners on base so far this season.

Hereís hoping the Sox are able to bring down both the total K/SO's and LOB's numbers as the season progresses.

Chez
04-20-2012, 08:16 AM
Didn't see the game (was in Louisville), but was following on my phone. Am I the only person who blames Robin for pitching to Jones with first base open and Nick Johnson on-deck? Sure, Floyd made a crappy pitch. But given the fact that Gavin's out pitch is his curve, why even take the chance that he's going to hang one -- all pitchers hang curveballs. As soon as first base opened, I would have walked Jones to get to Johnson.

kufram
04-20-2012, 09:19 AM
Your post made me think, did I really miss the Sox striking out 15 times on Opening Day? This is entirely possible, of course, as I'm usually pretty giddy on Opening Day. I must have been distracted by being in attendance at the Sox Home Opener and was not paying attention to the strikeouts. Or maybe it's that when the Sox win, I'm happy and when they lose, I begin to dissect the numbers.

Well, they sure did. The box score from the Home Opener (April 13th) confirms that the Sox struck out 15 times (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=320413104).

The Sox also struck out 13 times (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=320406113) in the Season Opener (April 6th) against Texas.

And yes, that 10-strikeouts-per-game average is daunting. This means that it is more than Beckham, Dunn, and Morel striking out every game, too. I know that Viciedo struck out 3 times yesterday because my dad called me to give me that bad news :(:. The runners LOB stat for the Sox for both of their Opening Days (13 on April 6th; 7 on April 13th) tells us what we already know: that the Sox are struggling to get that clutch hit and that they have left lots of runners on base so far this season.

Hereís hoping the Sox are able to bring down both the total K/SO's and LOB's numbers as the season progresses.


I think it is interesting that we have a high strikeout number but leave a lot of guys on base. Somebody is getting on base.

I think it is far too soon to decide anything about Robin. It is so easy to pick apart decisions after the game. What I like about him, though, is that he has a plan and he is quietly seeing it through. He has confidence so I have confidence. He'll have to do more than make a few bad decisions before he loses my confidence. My confidence comes from the about turn I see in the player's demeanor as a team and individually.

They look like they think they can play together and although one facet of the game, offense, is not firing on all cylinders yet, it looks to me like they think it will. It may take a change or two or it may just come right but it is almost more fun losing a game this year than it was winning a game last year.

kittle42
04-20-2012, 09:31 AM
But its indicative of what you are playing at the time. The Sox have caught 3 first place teams. Whether they finish there or not is a different story.

So yes maybe the Orioles will be a "garbage" team but I don't think its fair to say they are right now. They are playing winning baseball. The Sox were a garbage team for much of 2010 but anyone who caught them on there 11 game winning streak didn't think so.

I think we caught them at the wrong time. That's all I'm saying.

By this logic, one could never look at a schedule and say, "There is a nice easy stretch of games," or "That's gonna be a tough trip."

kittle42
04-20-2012, 09:34 AM
That will make the 2nd half of the season extremely exciting after Peavy gets dealt to the Nationals and we see Zach Stewart and Nestor Molina join the rotation.

In my NL-only fantasy league, we are allowed to pick 10 bench players, and those can include taking a chance on AL guys who might get traded. I took a look at the Sox' contracts and spent two spots on both AJ and Peavy. So I'll be looking at the bright side when that happens.

Of course, genius KW will get nothing in return for them.

hawkjt
04-20-2012, 09:35 AM
Sorry,gang,but the O's have more talent than the Sox. There is zero question about that. They just play in a brutal division,so they will naturally sink to 4th or 5th,and still be better than a 2nd place Sox team over in the AL Central. Just look at their hitter,objectively. When Roberts comes back, I think you could make a case that only PK could break into their lineup off the Sox.

Go out west and win,young men!

Harry Chappas
04-20-2012, 10:10 AM
Jeff Manto has been the hitting coach of the White Sox for less than 1% of the time Greg Walker was. Despite the fact this offense looks as punchless as it did for most of Walker's actual tenure, he is clearly blameless because they haven't made radical and fundamental changes to their approach in 2 weeks.

I think this has less to do with coaching and more to do with the fact that we have a bunch of mediocre-to-poor hitters on this team.

Lip Man 1
04-20-2012, 10:51 AM
Chez:

Don't you also think though that Floyd who has now been in the league a few years should know better?

These are "supposedly" big league players with a modicum of intelligence. Floyd doesn't know that Johnson is 0-20?

If he doesn't that's on him, there's things called scouting reports as well as pregame meetings between Cooper, the starting pitcher and the starting catcher.

My guess is he knew about Johnson not having a hit but like others have posted he gets in his own world and simply loses it.

Another mental issue if you want to call it that on a team that has had these issues in spades the past few years (starting with the former manager...)

Lip

Chez
04-20-2012, 11:08 AM
Chez:

Don't you also think though that Floyd who has now been in the league a few years should know better?

These are "supposedly" big league players with a modicum of intelligence. Floyd doesn't know that Johnson is 0-20?

If he doesn't that's on him, there's things called scouting reports as well as pregame meetings between Cooper, the starting pitcher and the starting catcher.

My guess is he knew about Johnson not having a hit but like others have posted he gets in his own world and simply loses it.

Another mental issue if you want to call it that on a team that has had these issues in spades the past few years (starting with the former manager...)

Lip

Lip:

Of course Floyd should know better. But Floyd has shown repeatedly over the years that he simply can't be relied on to "know better". It's up to the manager and the pitching coach in that situation to step in and essentially save Floyd from himself. Maybe if AJ had been catching, the outcome would have been different -- it surely would have been different if it had been Buehrle on the mound -- but I believe in that particular situation, the buck stops with Coop and Robin.

TomBradley72
04-20-2012, 11:11 AM
Chez:

Don't you also think though that Floyd who has now been in the league a few years should know better?

These are "supposedly" big league players with a modicum of intelligence. Floyd doesn't know that Johnson is 0-20?

If he doesn't that's on him, there's things called scouting reports as well as pregame meetings between Cooper, the starting pitcher and the starting catcher.

My guess is he knew about Johnson not having a hit but like others have posted he gets in his own world and simply loses it.

Another mental issue if you want to call it that on a team that has had these issues in spades the past few years (starting with the former manager...)

Lip

It's a fair point- but I would expect the catcher/coaches to manage the pitcher through that game situation via pitch selection, location, etc.

kufram
04-20-2012, 12:13 PM
Is it not possible that all the right things were in place and Floyd just made a very bad mistake. Maybe that ball was thrown to be in the dirt? I haven't gone back to see where Flowers' target was but I doubt if it was meant to finish in the wheelhouse. No pitcher hangs a curve on purpose.

JB98
04-20-2012, 12:25 PM
Lip:

Of course Floyd should know better. But Floyd has shown repeatedly over the years that he simply can't be relied on to "know better". It's up to the manager and the pitching coach in that situation to step in and essentially save Floyd from himself. Maybe if AJ had been catching, the outcome would have been different -- it surely would have been different if it had been Buehrle on the mound -- but I believe in that particular situation, the buck stops with Coop and Robin.

I don't think so. The curve was the right pitch in that situation, IMO. Before the pitch was thrown, I said aloud to the TV, "Throw him your best curve ball here."

The pitch selection was fine. The execution was terrible. That is 100 percent on the pitcher. You can't blame the catcher, or the pitching coach or the manager when the right pitch was called.

October26
04-20-2012, 02:51 PM
I think it is interesting that we have a high strikeout number but leave a lot of guys on base. Somebody is getting on base.

I think it is far too soon to decide anything about Robin. It is so easy to pick apart decisions after the game. What I like about him, though, is that he has a plan and he is quietly seeing it through. He has confidence so I have confidence. He'll have to do more than make a few bad decisions before he loses my confidence. My confidence comes from the about turn I see in the player's demeanor as a team and individually.

They look like they think they can play together and although one facet of the game, offense, is not firing on all cylinders yet, it looks to me like they think it will. It may take a change or two or it may just come right but it is almost more fun losing a game this year than it was winning a game last year.


I agree with you. I like this Sox team alot - of course, I want them to win 162 games although I know that is impossible. Iím thrilled that Robin is managing the team (I think I am Robinís biggest fan next to ChiSoxGirl :D:) and Iím willing to be patient. It appears that the Sox players respect Robin and I think that is important. The pitching for the most part has been good for the Sox so far this year; I also hope that the offense will come around soon.

ChiSoxGal85
04-20-2012, 04:12 PM
I agree with you. I like this Sox team alot - of course, I want them to win 162 games although I know that is impossible. Iím thrilled that Robin is managing the team (I think I am Robinís biggest fan next to ChiSoxGirl :D:) and Iím willing to be patient. It appears that the Sox players respect Robin and I think that is important. The pitching for the most part has been good for the Sox so far this year; I also hope that the offense will come around soon.

I agree! I like this team too, and feel like they might put it together and surprise people. I'm willing to go along for the ride. Thanks for driving, Robin! :smile:

One thing's for sure, I'm not nearly as frustrated with the Sox as I was last year - and by this time last season I was already frustrated. Lowering my own expectations helped. Plus the team seems to be...I don't really know how to explain it - more cohesive? Trying harder? Whatever the difference is - real or perceived - watching the Sox is more fun this year.

ChiSoxGirl
04-20-2012, 10:59 PM
I agree with you. I like this Sox team alot - of course, I want them to win 162 games although I know that is impossible. I’m thrilled that Robin is managing the team (I think I am Robin’s biggest fan next to ChiSoxGirl :D:) and I’m willing to be patient. It appears that the Sox players respect Robin and I think that is important. The pitching for the most part has been good for the Sox so far this year; I also hope that the offense will come around soon.

I ♥ Robin. That is all.

asindc
05-17-2012, 10:15 AM
Here is a rather good breakdown of Baltimore's string of early season successes over the past few seasons and their record under Buck Sholwalter:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7933461/luis-ayala-jim-johnson-matt-wieters-surprising-baltimore-orioles