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View Full Version : *Official* Deport Brent Morel Postgame Thread


RKMeibalane
04-17-2012, 09:56 PM
Brent Morel, you suck. :cool:

GoGoCrede
04-17-2012, 09:56 PM
Dammit. Oh well, made for an exciting final inning I suppose. Or as exciting as it can be when you're watching on Gameday.

soltrain21
04-17-2012, 09:57 PM
Might have to get used to a lot of 3-2 losses this year. At least they made it interesting in the end.

samurai_sox
04-17-2012, 09:57 PM
I think I'm starting to develop a Twins-like hate for the Orioles.

Viva Medias B's
04-17-2012, 09:57 PM
Brent Morel, you suck. :cool:

Get off the fence and tell us how you really feel.

doublem23
04-17-2012, 09:58 PM
How does Morel bat there? ****, I would have intentionally walked de Aza.

Note to Sox pitchers, if you give up more than 1 run, you're probably going to lose. Definitely won't win.

palehozenychicty
04-17-2012, 09:58 PM
If we could take the Orioles lineup and use our pitching staff, then we'd be in business. :D:

russ99
04-17-2012, 09:58 PM
I think I'm starting to develop a Twins-like hate for the Orioles.

No kidding, they sure seem to have our number.

RKMeibalane
04-17-2012, 09:59 PM
How does Morel bat there? ****, I would have intentionally walked de Aza.

As would I. I don't understand why Robin didn't go with Escobar, or even Flowers, in that situation. Morel is worthless.

amsteel
04-17-2012, 09:59 PM
The average AL offense gets 4.4 runs per game, the Sox have score more than 4 runs 3 times this season.

Once again, everything was 'good enough', except for one component (tonite: offense). Once again they lose a close game. Pepper in a bunch of ****ty at-bats and bad situational hitting and you have the recipe for the 2010-2012 White Sox.

Hendu
04-17-2012, 10:00 PM
AJ and Konerko can't do it all I guess. At least Gordon hit a ball hard for a change.

guillensdisciple
04-17-2012, 10:00 PM
Not gonna voice my distaste for our hitters. Back to .500- just win the next two and we'll be okay.

Soxman219
04-17-2012, 10:00 PM
Brent Morel can't play baseball at a professional level.

LoveYourSuit
04-17-2012, 10:00 PM
Getting very close to the point of not caring anymore. I see no hope with this offense.
Dunn still sucks.

russ99
04-17-2012, 10:00 PM
As would I. I don't understand why Robin didn't go with Escobar in that situation. Morel is worthless.

Dunn .179
Morel .118
Beckham .103

Not many teams can win with a third of the lineup doing that...

I wonder if Kenny will do something about it this year, or just ride it out again...

amsteel
04-17-2012, 10:01 PM
How does Morel bat there? ****, I would have intentionally walked de Aza.

Eh, you don't want to intentionally put the winning run on 2nd. After the SB/Def. Indifference by Lillibridge, then yeah, ADA shoudn't have been pitched to.

But who'd you rater see off the bench, Escobar? He hasn't quite proved anything yet. Then again he hasn't proved he as bad as Morel either.

Crestani
04-17-2012, 10:01 PM
Fire Walker..!!

Zakath
04-17-2012, 10:02 PM
The only guys we had left on the bench at the end were Flowers and Escobar.

Either was a better option there than Morel.

Left 3 runners on third (6th, 7th, and 9th innings).

Sorry, Robin, but you can't leave a guy hitting .118 in the 2 hole.

Madvora
04-17-2012, 10:02 PM
Dunn .179
Morel .118
Beckham .103

Not many teams can win with a third of the lineup doing that...

I wonder if Kenny will do something about it this year, or just ride it out again...

There's your answer.

RKMeibalane
04-17-2012, 10:03 PM
Dunn .179
Morel .118
Beckham .103

Not many teams can win with a third of the lineup doing that...

I wonder if Kenny will do something about it this year, or just ride it out again...

What's particularly bothersome is that the Sox seemingly start each inning with one or two outs before anyone's come to the plate. Part of me worries about other hitters (Viciedo, for example) starting to press because the guys hitting behind them (Beckham) can't be counted on.

ChiSoxGal85
04-17-2012, 10:03 PM
Darn Orioles. At least this was less embarrassing than yesterday's loss and the Sox put up a fight to the end.

Beckham actually hit the ball a couple of times.

I think I'd have had Escobar run for Viciedo and Lillibridge hit for Morel. Whatever...

johnnyg83
04-17-2012, 10:03 PM
Morel and Beckham and Dunn, oh my!

RKMeibalane
04-17-2012, 10:04 PM
Eh, you don't want to intentionally put the winning run on 2nd. After the SB/Def. Indifference by Lillibridge, then yeah, ADA shoudn't have been pitched to.

But who'd you rater see off the bench, Escobar? He hasn't quite proved anything yet. Then again he hasn't proved he as bad as Morel either.

I actually may have used Flowers in that spot, as he has shown some power in the past. Maybe he gets a pitch he can drive...

russ99
04-17-2012, 10:05 PM
There's your answer.

Not doing anything is a cop out.

BTW: McPherson is hitting .300 with 2 homers and 10 RBIs in Charlotte...

palehozenychicty
04-17-2012, 10:05 PM
eh, you don't want to intentionally put the winning run on 2nd. After the sb/def. Indifference by lillibridge, then yeah, ada shoudn't have been pitched to.

But who'd you rater see off the bench, escobar? He hasn't quite proved anything yet. then again he hasn't proved he as bad as morel either.

b-i-n-g-o!

doublem23
04-17-2012, 10:08 PM
Not doing anything is a cop out.

BTW: McPherson is hitting .300 with 2 homers and 10 RBIs in Charlotte...

Ha ha, Dallas McPherson? Good god, at least Morel plays a nice 3B.

SoxandtheCityTee
04-17-2012, 10:08 PM
Hmm. Considering that AJ and Paulie are hitting well, it's depressing how may holes the Sox still have in their line-up.

Quentin08
04-17-2012, 10:09 PM
Man, these last 3 games have been a real Morel-downer. :angry:

Why didn't Hawk announce the attendance tonight.. or last night?

thomas35forever
04-17-2012, 10:09 PM
Looks like our real clutch hitting has returned.

DirtySox
04-17-2012, 10:09 PM
Dunn .179
Morel .118
Beckham .103

Not many teams can win with a third of the lineup doing that...

I wonder if Kenny will do something about it this year, or just ride it out again...

Kenny's only other options are Eduardo Escobar and Brent Lillibridge. There really isn't anything else worthwhile. Besides, this is a "rebuilding" year. What you see is what you get. Time to find out if either of these players are going to be an answer going forward. Even if they aren't, marginal prospect Tyler Kuhn, and retread Dallas McPherson are the AAA alternatives. Yuck.

Aesero
04-17-2012, 10:10 PM
Well, that's a shame.

thomas35forever
04-17-2012, 10:10 PM
Man, these last 3 games have been a real Morel-downer. :angry:

Why didn't Hawk announce the attendance tonight.. or last night?

I'm pretty sure announcing any attendance that's x<15,000 is cause for firing.

TommyGavinFloyd
04-17-2012, 10:11 PM
Man, these last 3 games have been a real Morel-downer. :angry:

Why didn't Hawk announce the attendance tonight.. or last night?

because it was 11,267?

voodoochile
04-17-2012, 10:11 PM
Need to start getting consistent production from 1-3 in the lineup or it's going to be a long season.

amsteel
04-17-2012, 10:11 PM
I actually may have used Flowers in that spot, as he has shown some power in the past. Maybe he gets a pitch he can drive...

I hear ya, but I hate hate hate not having an option if AJ gets injured. All things even, I'd also take Flowers over Escobar off the bench in a PH situation.

guillensdisciple
04-17-2012, 10:14 PM
De aza, aj, paulie that should be the starting three. Just saying.

DickAllen72
04-17-2012, 10:15 PM
Brent Morel, you suck. :cool:
That's true, but Beckham is even worse. I'm sick of watching Beckham and Dunn bat.

Send Beckham down and bring up a third catcher to free up AJ and Flowers to DH when they are not catching. Let Dunn sit. Lillibridge starts at 2B.

102605
04-17-2012, 10:16 PM
Personally, I don't like giving up the out being down in the 9th. I'd also have sent anyone but Morel up to bat for that final out.

DirtySox
04-17-2012, 10:17 PM
Why didn't Hawk announce the attendance tonight?

South Side Sox ‏ @SouthSideSox Reply Retweet Favorite Open
Lowest White Sox attendance since they drew 10,520 and 10,800 in back-to-back games April 6-7, 2005.

Brian26
04-17-2012, 10:18 PM
How does Morel bat there? ****, I would have intentionally walked de Aza.

As would I. I don't understand why Robin didn't go with Escobar, or even Flowers, in that situation. Morel is worthless.

Brent Morel can't play baseball at a professional level.

Morel .118


The only guys we had left on the bench at the end were Flowers and Escobar.

Either was a better option there than Morel.

Not doing anything is a cop out.

BTW: McPherson is hitting .300 with 2 homers and 10 RBIs in Charlotte...

The Sox get off to a 5-3 start, and all of a sudden everyone has delusions of grandeur.

This is a semi-rebuilding year, and you can't take the bat out of Morel's hands if you want to learn what the kid is made of. There were some rough times with Crede in 2002 and 2003 before he finally figured it out in '04.

Not to defend Morel, because it's obvious that scouting report on this guy has quickly made its way around. With two strikes, a breaking pitch on the outside corner and Morel has to grab some bench. Just have to ride it out.

Zakath
04-17-2012, 10:19 PM
Hmm. Considering that AJ and Paulie are hitting well, it's depressing how may holes the Sox still have in their line-up.

Outside of the Three Amigos, the rest of the lineup is now hitting .250+. Rios is on a 5-game hit streak, and has only struck out twice all season (both last Friday). Viciedo has hit safely in every game but two (tonight and last Wednesday's win in Cleveland). Ramirez is also on a 5-game hit streak. de Aza continues to produce, with only two hitless games as well this season and 6 extra-base hits.

There aren't as many holes as it appears, but the holes are damn near bottomless pits.

Brian26
04-17-2012, 10:20 PM
South Side Sox ‏ @SouthSideSox Reply Retweet Favorite Open
Lowest White Sox attendance since they drew 10,520 and 10,800 in back-to-back games April 6-7, 2005.

My favorite moment of the game was the forced narrative by Hawk and Stone about the benefits of "Dynamic Pricing", all the while a STUB HUB advertisement was being shown on the wall behind home plate.

:thumbsup:

Lip Man 1
04-17-2012, 10:22 PM
JB was right in another thread when he said Betemit would hurt the Sox but no one, I mean no one expected it to be in the field.

Same old ****, no clutch hitting, leave runners on 3rd base with less than one out, lose another game to a garbage team and a no name pitcher.

Where have we seen that before?

Lip

Noneck
04-17-2012, 10:24 PM
South Side Sox ‏ @SouthSideSox Reply Retweet Favorite Open
Lowest White Sox attendance since they drew 10,520 and 10,800 in back-to-back games April 6-7, 2005.


The weather wasnt that bad tonite. Looking at stubhub tomorrow looks similar. Not good but expected.

guillensdisciple
04-17-2012, 10:24 PM
JB was right in another thread when he said Betemit would hurt the Sox but no one, I mean no one expected it to be in the field.

Same old ****, no clutch hitting, leave runners on 3rd base with less than one out, lose another game to a garbage team and a no name pitcher.

Where have we seen that before?

Lip

Ahhhhhh it's a rebuilding year man- it can't be the same old **** since we're doing something different. Maybe the results are the same, but the team and idea is different.

JB98
04-17-2012, 10:24 PM
The Sox get off to a 5-3 start, and all of a sudden everyone has delusions of grandeur.

This is a semi-rebuilding year, and you can't take the bat out of Morel's hands if you want to learn what the kid is made of. There were some rough times with Crede in 2002 and 2003 before he finally figured it out in '04.

Not to defend Morel, because it's obvious that scouting report on this guy has quickly made its way around. With two strikes, a breaking pitch on the outside corner and Morel has to grab some bench. Just have to ride it out.

Agreed. Not sure what people expect. The idea this year is to find out once and for all whether the younger guys on this roster can play. Maybe Morel can't, but I'd like to see more than 10 games before drawing that conclusion.

McPherson would be a waste of a roster space. He doesn't need to be here unless someone gets hurt.

DickAllen72
04-17-2012, 10:28 PM
Agreed. Not sure what people expect. The idea this year is to find out once and for all whether the younger guys on this roster can play. Maybe Morel can't, but I'd like to see more than 10 games before drawing that conclusion.

McPherson would be a waste of a roster space. He doesn't need to be here unless someone gets hurt.
Morel may deserve more time to show what he can do, but Beckham should be out of chances.

They're stuck with Dunn, but they can send Beckham down for another catcher to free up Flowers to at least DH against left handed pitchers.

LongLiveFisk
04-17-2012, 10:31 PM
Dynamic pricing would be something like $5 UD seats. At least that would get asses in the seats.

And I agree, someone has to pinch hit for Morel in that situation. But hindsight is 20/20 and if Morel gets a hit there, probably no one is questioning it.

guillensdisciple
04-17-2012, 10:33 PM
Dynamic pricing would be something like $5 UD seats. At least that would get asses in the seats.

And I agree, someone has to pinch hit for Morel in that situation. But hindsight is 20/20 and if Morel gets a hit there, probably no one is questioning it.

Stubhub has your dynamic seating

SoxSpeed22
04-17-2012, 10:36 PM
Escobar needs to get some more playing time with the way this is going. Also, screw you Rios, for falling for that stupid fake to 3rd pickoff move.
I liked what I saw out of Addison and Jesse.

34rancher
04-17-2012, 10:37 PM
Let's jus stay positive. Look at the bright side...
Only 476 more games of Adam Dunn.

guillensdisciple
04-17-2012, 10:39 PM
Let's jus stay positive. Look at the bright side...
Only 476 more games of Adam Dunn.

He'll be gone after this year if he continues like this- no way he stays for another two years.

Wedema
04-17-2012, 10:41 PM
Darn Orioles. At least this was less embarrassing than yesterday's loss and the Sox put up a fight to the end.

Beckham actually hit the ball a couple of times.

I think I'd have had Escobar run for Viciedo and Lillibridge hit for Morel. Whatever...

I agree that Escobar should have pinch ran for Viciedo as he is quicker than Lillibridge and it would have left Lillibridge to pinch hit later for Morel.

Brian26
04-17-2012, 10:48 PM
He'll be gone after this year if he continues like this- no way he stays for another two years.

You're saying he's going to voluntarily give up $28 million dollars and just leave because he sucks?

Lip Man 1
04-17-2012, 10:48 PM
Guillen:

You honestly think someone is going to take this stiff? or that the Sox will actually eat two years worth of salary??

I'd be shocked if either possibility took place.

Lip

guillensdisciple
04-17-2012, 10:52 PM
You're saying he's going to voluntarily give up $28 million dollars and just leave because he sucks?

No no he will never leave but, as I have learned from investing courses, its best to cut your losses.
Guillen:

You honestly think someone is going to take this stiff? or that the Sox will actually eat two years worth of salary??

I'd be shocked if either possibility took place.

Lip

I don't expect anyone to take him as a hitter, but I do expect the white sox to sit him and find other means of production.

DrCrawdad
04-17-2012, 10:52 PM
Dunn .179
Morel .118
Beckham .103

Not many teams can win with a third of the lineup doing that...

I wonder if Kenny will do something about it this year, or just ride it out again...

I haven't wanted to join any mob against Beckham, but...

I can see giving Beckham another week, maybe, but if he doesn't start hitting...SOON...he needs to go to AAA.

JB was right in another thread when he said Betemit would hurt the Sox but no one, I mean no one expected it to be in the field.

Same old ****, no clutch hitting, leave runners on 3rd base with less than one out, lose another game to a garbage team and a no name pitcher.

Where have we seen that before?

Lip

I just watched the game ending Betemit play, not spectacular but a very good play, exactly the kind of play he didn't make when he was with the Sox.

It really is an eerie replay of the last few years. It's too bad because with the exception of last night and the one game in TX the pitching has been great.

DumpJerry
04-17-2012, 11:00 PM
Brent Morel, you suck. :cool:

I was at the game. When Morel came up, I was yelling for him to lean into the first pitch to take one for the team. I did not see any other way he would keep the game alive.

The weather wasnt that bad tonite. Looking at stubhub tomorrow looks similar. Not good but expected.
No Blackhawks' playoff game tomorrow night.

ChiSoxGal85
04-17-2012, 11:02 PM
The Sox get off to a 5-3 start, and all of a sudden everyone has delusions of grandeur.

This is a semi-rebuilding year, and you can't take the bat out of Morel's hands if you want to learn what the kid is made of. There were some rough times with Crede in 2002 and 2003 before he finally figured it out in '04.

Not to defend Morel, because it's obvious that scouting report on this guy has quickly made its way around. With two strikes, a breaking pitch on the outside corner and Morel has to grab some bench. Just have to ride it out.
I'm glad you said that. I was pretty sure I remembered some frustration with Crede before '05, whiffing at low outside pitches, before he pulled it together.

It's painful watching the young guys struggle and I hate losing these games, but I think Robin will let it the lineup ride. He clearly remembers struggles he had at the plate early in his career and I think he'll give them a lot more time to work it out.

Noneck
04-17-2012, 11:12 PM
No Blackhawks' playoff game tomorrow night.

No Hawks on half price monday and didnt draw much more than tonight. Similar weather.

DumpJerry
04-17-2012, 11:15 PM
No Hawks on half price monday and didnt draw much more than tonight. Similar weather.
People were getting ready for the Hawks' game.

doublem23
04-17-2012, 11:18 PM
south side sox ‏ @southsidesox reply retweet favorite open
lowest white sox attendance since they drew 10,520 and 10,800 in back-to-back games april 6-7, 2005.

2005!

SoxandtheCityTee
04-17-2012, 11:47 PM
Outside of the Three Amigos, the rest of the lineup is now hitting .250+. Rios is on a 5-game hit streak, and has only struck out twice all season (both last Friday). Viciedo has hit safely in every game but two (tonight and last Wednesday's win in Cleveland). Ramirez is also on a 5-game hit streak. de Aza continues to produce, with only two hitless games as well this season and 6 extra-base hits.

There aren't as many holes as it appears, but the holes are damn near bottomless pits.

You're right. I guess it feels to me that the non-hitters seem to come to the plate even more often than they really do, so their presence looms larger. Why does it have to be Morel with the game on the line in the ninth? Sigh.

TommyGavinFloyd
04-17-2012, 11:49 PM
My favorite moment of the game was the forced narrative by Hawk and Stone about the benefits of "Dynamic Pricing", all the while a STUB HUB advertisement was being shown on the wall behind home plate.

:thumbsup:

He said that yesterday too. I hate dynamic pricing a lot and making Hawk read forced ads about how it's a great benefit for the fans doesn't help.

They want $19.45 per ticket for section 506 tomorrow (UD, farthest corner). Those seats are barely ever even filled, even in games where we get 30,000 there, let alone 11,000.

On Stubhub, I see several tickets at 15 bucks for seats down the 3rd base line. It's a no-brainer. Telling me that I'm able to get them from "the primary source" does nothing for me, it's all about price relative to location. That's all I care about.

slavko
04-17-2012, 11:59 PM
Fire Walker..!!

Some of us need the obvious stated. Walker had Morel mashing last September. Just kidding. Just kidding.

soxnut1018
04-18-2012, 12:07 AM
South Side Sox ‏ @SouthSideSox Reply Retweet Favorite Open
Lowest White Sox attendance since they drew 10,520 and 10,800 in back-to-back games April 6-7, 2005.

I was at the game and I'm not sure there were even that many. After the fifth inning they allowed all the people in the UD to move to the 300 level, which was nice.

Morel is just awful right now and while I don't think he's this bad, I also don't see him as a major league 2-hitter. I'd like to see Robin bat AJ second and move Viciedo into the 5-hole. You could maybe put Alexei second if he heats up with the weather.

palehozenychicty
04-18-2012, 12:12 AM
I was at the game and I'm not sure there were even that many. After the fifth inning they allowed all the people in the UD to move to the 300 level, which was nice.

Morel is just awful right now and while I don't think he's this bad, I also don't see him as a major league 2-hitter. I'd like to see Robin bat AJ second and move Viciedo into the 5-hole. You could maybe put Alexei second if he heats up with the weather.

Indeed. He doesn't have the bat control or plate discipline for it. But when you are grasping at straws, this is what you do.

Noneck
04-18-2012, 12:24 AM
At least they didnt roll over and die in the 9th. Morel is still new to the league, Beckham is not and Dunn is really starting to look like he did last year. At least with Morel and Beckham there is the option to send them down, with Dunn, I dont know what could be done.

johnnyg83
04-18-2012, 12:44 AM
I keep reminding myself that this is at best a .500 team. And Morel Beckham and Dunn (The axis of bad approach) have been exactly what we thought they'd be on last week.

F4L
04-18-2012, 12:46 AM
The thing that gets me the most is the fact that this team could be sitting at 7-3 right now very easily. Imagine how much different this board would be if that was the case.

On to the next one, let's split this series, and move on.

Zakath
04-18-2012, 07:04 AM
Morel is just awful right now and while I don't think he's this bad, I also don't see him as a major league 2-hitter. I'd like to see Robin bat AJ second and move Viciedo into the 5-hole. You could maybe put Alexei second if he heats up with the weather.

As I said yesterday, Morel's issues seem to be motivational, and it's affecting his swing. He barely lifts his front foot, so he's getting very little forward momentum to generate any power. As a result, his swing is all arms. You can do that if your name is Albert Pujols, but not if it's Brent Morel.

As for Alexei, it appears most people haven't noticed, but he's hitting .263, which is just shy of what he hit last April (.265). Prior to last year, he had been a VERY slow starter (April 2010 .221, April 2009 .214, April 2008 .138). He's got a 5-game hitting streak, and has only failed to get a hit twice this season. He had 6 strikeouts in the first 5 games; he has one in the last 5. Better a "cold" Alexei Ramirez hitting second than a "down near the freezing point of helium" Brent Morel.

This team has 12 HR's, and 9 of them are solo shots. Why? Because the guys hitting in front of our HR hitters aren't getting on. When the holes in your lineup are 2, 3, and 9, and your HR hitters are mostly 1, 4, and 5, you're going to get a lot of solo shots, and put up a few 1-run innings. Unfortunately, 1-run innings don't win ballgames, unless you have 5 or 6 of them. It would be better to put all of the holes in one part of the batting order, take pressure off of them, and if need be waste an inning every third or fourth.

LITTLE NELL
04-18-2012, 07:29 AM
2012; new manager, new coaches, same old Dunn, Beckham and Morel.
Another article today on how close Beckham is to breaking out of it. BS, he is a head case that probably needs a shrink more than a hitting coach.

doublem23
04-18-2012, 07:59 AM
This is a semi-rebuilding year, and you can't take the bat out of Morel's hands if you want to learn what the kid is made of. There were some rough times with Crede in 2002 and 2003 before he finally figured it out in '04.

Main difference though is that Joe Crede was a 5-star, blue-chip, bona fide can't miss type prospect. Nobody has ever praised Morel in even remotely the same way. You ride out a rough start from guys like Crede. Morel is basically here because he's the warmest body that fits, we don't have any one else who really could bat 2nd and we certainly don't have anyone else who could play 3B. If we did, Brent could be penciled in for the 3B job in Charlotte for the next 3 years.

Ultimately, compared to the expectations, Joe Crede's career was a disappointment. If Brent Morel turned out to be a fraction of the player Crede was, however, I think that would be cause for wild celebration.

Frater Perdurabo
04-18-2012, 08:05 AM
I have no problem adjusting the lineup. But there's nothing to be gained by benching or demoting young players who need to learn to make the constant adjustments necessary to hit major league pitching.

shenk16
04-18-2012, 08:17 AM
This is a semi-rebuilding year, and you can't take the bat out of Morel's hands if you want to learn what the kid is made of. There were some rough times with Crede in 2002 and 2003 before he finally figured it out in '04.

Great point. Here's a better one...why is he is still batting 2nd? Yes, I understand it has only been 10 games. Also, I think there are more to Morel's struggles than just the "scouting report" of how to get him out with 2 strikes. He rarely gets the bat off his shoulders before he has 2 on him.

Nobody expected us to win this year, but it is difficult to compete in games when we are playing some guys regularly that are already defeated.

shingo10
04-18-2012, 08:28 AM
The Sox get off to a 5-3 start, and all of a sudden everyone has delusions of grandeur.

This is a semi-rebuilding year, and you can't take the bat out of Morel's hands if you want to learn what the kid is made of. There were some rough times with Crede in 2002 and 2003 before he finally figured it out in '04.

Not to defend Morel, because it's obvious that scouting report on this guy has quickly made its way around. With two strikes, a breaking pitch on the outside corner and Morel has to grab some bench. Just have to ride it out.

If I remember right people were calling for the Sox to give up on Crede all the way until September 2005 when he came back from his finger injury. That's when he went on his amazing run where he was arguably the MVP of the ALCS and World Series.

As for Morel...I don't know if he is the problem as much as the construction of the lineup. It seems like every crucial spot he is up. Then again what can Robin do...A.J. needs to protect Konerko. Ahh. Need to get a split. Then things won't seem as bad.

veeter
04-18-2012, 08:31 AM
Well the Sox are supposed to be rebuilding, but guess what? The pitching staff is excellent. If these dopes would hit a little, the Sox could easily contend for a playoff spot. If Kenny lets Robin bench Dunn they'd score more.

October26
04-18-2012, 08:33 AM
Darn Orioles. At least this was less embarrassing than yesterday's loss and the Sox put up a fight to the end.

Beckham actually hit the ball a couple of times.

I think I'd have had Escobar run for Viciedo and Lillibridge hit for Morel. Whatever...

I had to work last night (major project at work right now), so I did not get a chance to watch the game. I just finished reading the box score from last night's game and cringed when I saw that the Sox had 9 runners LOB. UGH. Sox have very little clutch hitting right now unless we're lucky enough to have Paulie or AJ at the plate.

I laughed when I saw the title of this postgame thread. Gotta say NO to deporting Morel, even with his .113 average right now. I know he's looked bad to start the year, but I believe Morel's a better hitter than he's shown thus far. Robin took a chance last night and Morel failed. I hope the results will be better for Morel & the Sox next time.

I do feel bad for Johnny Danks who gave up 5 hits and 3 runs and took the loss.

34rancher
04-18-2012, 09:00 AM
I keep reminding myself that this is at best a .500 team. And Morel Beckham and Dunn (The axis of bad approach) have been exactly what we thought they'd be on last week.
I think the following comment quoted below helps show WHY they are a .500 team.
Well the Sox are supposed to be rebuilding, but guess what? The pitching staff is excellent. If these dopes would hit a little, the Sox could easily contend for a playoff spot. If Kenny lets Robin bench Dunn they'd score more.
I think everyone here who thought Adam Dunn was a good signing needs their head examined. He is a vortex of sucktitude. He seems to only hit home runs in losing efforts. He has great seasons on bad teams. He needs to be benched for a VERY long time. as for Brent, at least he is in the field. But I agree drop him to 8th or 9th until he finds his swing. And as for Gordon, a week in the minors might help him immensely.
No no he will never leave but, as I have learned from investing courses, its best to cut your losses.


I don't expect anyone to take him as a hitter, but I do expect the white sox to sit him and find other means of production.

He'll be gone after this year if he continues like this- no way he stays for another two years.

If Kenny has any kind of Jedi mind tricks left, he needs to cut bait or at least bench his ass. What a friggin waste. I knew it when he was signed that we were doomed to a bad few years. I was wrong about the Rios deal. I really thought he would be something. Ugh...

asindc
04-18-2012, 09:04 AM
The Sox get off to a 5-3 start, and all of a sudden everyone has delusions of grandeur.

This is a semi-rebuilding year, and you can't take the bat out of Morel's hands if you want to learn what the kid is made of. There were some rough times with Crede in 2002 and 2003 before he finally figured it out in '04.

Not to defend Morel, because it's obvious that scouting report on this guy has quickly made its way around. With two strikes, a breaking pitch on the outside corner and Morel has to grab some bench. Just have to ride it out.

:yup:
The mood here sometimes is a stable as a day-trader's schedule. Long season, folks. This is not to say that Beckham is not lost at the plate (he is), that the bullpen might not be as good as the first week results indicated (I don't think anyone thought that), or that Dunn seems to regress to 2011-mode without warning (he does). We all knew that this season is meant to be a barometer for the next 2-3 seasons in terms of what direction management wants to take. We have inexperience at CF, LF, 3B, and long relief, a potential bust at 2B, a rotation without depth, and potential washed-ups at RF and DH. We knew that going into the season, though.

Harry Chappas
04-18-2012, 09:18 AM
Main difference though is that Joe Crede was a 5-star, blue-chip, bona fide can't miss type prospect. Nobody has ever praised Morel in even remotely the same way. You ride out a rough start from guys like Crede. Morel is basically here because he's the warmest body that fits, we don't have any one else who really could bat 2nd and we certainly don't have anyone else who could play 3B. If we did, Brent could be penciled in for the 3B job in Charlotte for the next 3 years.

Ultimately, compared to the expectations, Joe Crede's career was a disappointment. If Brent Morel turned out to be a fraction of the player Crede was, however, I think that would be cause for wild celebration.

Thank you!! The Joe Crede/Brent Morel comparisons are laughable. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think any of the scouting services projected Morel to be anything more than a middling MLB prospect and so far, that's exactly what we've got. Unfortunately, the Sox farm system is so abysmal, we get fooled into overrating the few legit big leaguers it produces. We probably did the same with Beckham who appears to be a complete mental case at this point and we're only 10 games into the season.

"Rebuilding"? The way I see it, we're doing nothing more than shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic. Rebuilding to me would mean a complete shift in organizational philosophy and last time I checked, the GM - the one who has paid nothing more than lip service to the farm system and the draft - is still in charge. This is a pretty veteran team. Outside of some of the young arms, Viciedo, Escobar (sub), and Flowers (sub), most of these guys have at least a few seasons under their belt. To really "rebuild" I think you need to trade away the few assets that keep this team remotely competitive and even then, do any of you trust that Kenny Williams won't get fleeced in the deal?

johnny bench
04-18-2012, 09:33 AM
If I were in Robin's shoes I'd be wondering about why my starting right fielder, a 9 year professional, got picked off of first base last night. I'd also be wondering why my number one starting pitcher is pitching like a number three guy.

Railsplitter
04-18-2012, 09:45 AM
It's still April (keep repeating until signs of improvement or may1. whichever comes first)

Harry Chappas
04-18-2012, 09:50 AM
If I were in Robin's shoes I'd be wondering about why my starting right fielder, a 9 year professional, got picked off of first base last night. I'd also be wondering why my number one starting pitcher is pitching like a number three guy.

Probably because Danks has always been a solid #3. He has a losing record and a career ERA of over 4 and a WHIP of 1.3. Other than one shaky inning last night, he pitched pretty well. If you hold the opponent to 3 runs, you should win unless you're facing someone like Verlander. But I agree on the Rios point.

kittle42
04-18-2012, 09:55 AM
The only thing I'm optimistic about is that many of the posters here are already resigned to what this season is - a rebuilding type year in which we see whether our marginal prospects can actually play in the MLB and whether Beckham is done already, and we hope that players like Dunn, Rios, and (yes, I hate to say it given how he is playing right now) AJ play well enough to be attractive to potential trade partners at some point.

Much better than everyone thinking a team that was practically admitting themselves they had little chance to seriously contend before the season even started has a real chance to make the playoffs. Not that I still don't want this team to win every game, but what we've seen the last three days is most likely what we should get used to.

kittle42
04-18-2012, 09:56 AM
Probably because Danks has always been a solid #3. He has a losing record and a career ERA of over 4 and a WHIP of 1.3. Other than one shaky inning last night, he pitched pretty well. If you hold the opponent to 3 runs, you should win unless you're facing someone like Verlander. But I agree on the Rios point.

Right. Danks isn't a "number 1" in any real sense - this is just a team with five "number 3" types starting.

ChiSoxGirl
04-18-2012, 10:09 AM
I had to work last night (major project at work right now), so I did not get a chance to watch the game. I just finished reading the box score from last night's game and cringed when I saw that the Sox had 9 runners LOB. UGH. Sox have very little clutch hitting right now unless we're lucky enough to have Paulie or AJ at the plate.

I laughed when I saw the title of this postgame thread. Gotta say NO to deporting Morel, even with his .113 average right now. I know he's looked bad to start the year, but I believe Morel's a better hitter than he's shown thus far. Robin took a chance last night and Morel failed. I hope the results will be better for Morel & the Sox next time.

I do feel bad for Johnny Danks who gave up 5 hits and 3 runs and took the loss.

It was a classic John Danks start - he pitched well, only surrendering three runs, but he received zero run support. I'd be curious to see how many 1-0, 2-0, 2-1, 3-1, 3-2 games he's lost in his career.

kittle42
04-18-2012, 10:30 AM
It was a classic John Danks start - he pitched well, only surrendering three runs, but he received zero run support. I'd be curious to see how many 1-0, 2-0, 2-1, 3-1, 3-2 games he's lost in his career.

A quick look at Baseball Reference says about 30 - I used the Sox lose by three runs or fewer (max 5 opponent runs) and Danks gave up 3 over 7+ innings or 2 over 5-6 innings minimum.

Of course, those numbers are pretty irrelevant without knowing the same numbers for other starters over a comparable period of time.

Hitmen77
04-18-2012, 10:39 AM
Main difference though is that Joe Crede was a 5-star, blue-chip, bona fide can't miss type prospect. Nobody has ever praised Morel in even remotely the same way. You ride out a rough start from guys like Crede. Morel is basically here because he's the warmest body that fits, we don't have any one else who really could bat 2nd and we certainly don't have anyone else who could play 3B. If we did, Brent could be penciled in for the 3B job in Charlotte for the next 3 years.

Ultimately, compared to the expectations, Joe Crede's career was a disappointment. If Brent Morel turned out to be a fraction of the player Crede was, however, I think that would be cause for wild celebration.

The problem with the Sox is that Morel is pretty much just like any other Sox position player product of the last 10 years. When was the last time the Sox developed a position player of their own who didn't turned out to be a huge liability in the lineup either offensively or defensively? Do we need to go back to Aaron Rowand (drafted in 1998, MLB debut 2001)? Beckham was supposed to be a bona fide MLB player for us, but that's looking doubtful now.

Until this organization changes the way it drafts and develops players, we will continue to be plagued by "too many automatic outs" in the lineup.

kittle42
04-18-2012, 10:48 AM
Until this organization changes the way it drafts and develops players, we will continue to be plagued by "too many automatic outs" in the lineup.

Why change? Our players would put up some big numbers in a pickup football game!

hawkjt
04-18-2012, 11:58 AM
Danks threw only a couple of bad pitches and both went out of the park about 2 minutes apart...otherwise he was solid.

Sox offense,on the other hand,stunk again.
Wish Robin had sat Dunn vs the lefty last nite,give him a break,and bring him back tonite. He is not looking good at all vs lefties.

Bright spots: DeAza is a tough out.
AJ continues to light up even lefties.
Gordo hit the ball hard a couple of times.
Getting closer.

I do have to chuckle today at the memory of hearing Hawk loudly exclaim
'' throw it away!!'' at Betemit on that last Morel ground ball.
If that sounds desperate...it is.

I think this year is going to finish off Hawk....really. It is just too long a season when the losing starts this early and there is little chance of being in the race past April...he will go crazy.

wassagstdu
04-18-2012, 12:07 PM
2012; new manager, new coaches, same old Dunn, Beckham and Morel.
Another article today on how close Beckham is to breaking out of it. BS, he is a head case that probably needs a shrink more than a hitting coach.

Beckham's development was so badly mishandled that the Sox organization owes him a lot of patience. They brought him up way too soon and asked him to learn two new positions in two years, while learning to hit major league pitching with a wooden bat. (I still think his hitched swing looks like an aluminum bat swing.) I think it is a miracle that he has done as well as he has, playing good defense and occasionally showing flashes of hitting talent. This team is not going anywhere, so why not see if he can still develop into what most of us thought we were seeing when he came up? Otherwise, I can imagine Gordon Beckham would be the poster boy for poor Sox player handling and "development," making it harder to sign talented young players.

As for Morel, if there is a better option, go for it. But I don't see it.

Dunn? Same argument as last year: The Sox are not going to win without him so there is no point benching him, they just have to keep playing him and hoping. I don't agree with that argument, because I think Dunn is too one-dimensional to be the key to success, but I see no point in benching him.

KMcMahon817
04-18-2012, 12:12 PM
Ha ha, Dallas McPherson? Good god, at least Morel plays a nice 3B.

I by no means am advocating for McPherson over Morel, but everyone here laughed at the idea of promoting De Aza for a full-time role for year.

I don't want Morel batting 2nd, but I don't even think he is the main offensive problem. Gordon on the other hand...

johnnyg83
04-18-2012, 12:42 PM
What about

1. De Aza
2. AJ
3. Paulie
4. Tank
5. Alexi
6. Rios
7. Dunn
8. Morel
9. Beckham

I know it leaves us victim to relief pitching matchups, but this would be the way to ensure the least amount of ABs by our worst hitters. And give us a chance to string something together on the top half.

EDIT: I recognize how slow 2,3,4, is.

kufram
04-18-2012, 12:55 PM
Beckham's development was so badly mishandled that the Sox organization owes him a lot of patience. They brought him up way too soon and asked him to learn two new positions in two years, while learning to hit major league pitching with a wooden bat. (I still think his hitched swing looks like an aluminum bat swing.) I think it is a miracle that he has done as well as he has, playing good defense and occasionally showing flashes of hitting talent. This team is not going anywhere, so why not see if he can still develop into what most of us thought we were seeing when he came up? Otherwise, I can imagine Gordon Beckham would be the poster boy for poor Sox player handling and "development," making it harder to sign talented young players.

As for Morel, if there is a better option, go for it. But I don't see it.

Dunn? Same argument as last year: The Sox are not going to win without him so there is no point benching him, they just have to keep playing him and hoping. I don't agree with that argument, because I think Dunn is too one-dimensional to be the key to success, but I see no point in benching him.


A voice of reason.

FielderJones
04-18-2012, 02:06 PM
What about

1. De Aza
2. AJ
3. Paulie
4. Tank
5. Alexi
6. Rios
7. Dunn
8. Morel
9. Beckham

I know it leaves us victim to relief pitching matchups, but this would be the way to ensure the least amount of ABs by our worst hitters. And give us a chance to string something together on the top half.

EDIT: I recognize how slow 2,3,4, is.

The way AJ has been driving in runs lately, I want him at the 5 spot.

Paulwny
04-18-2012, 02:12 PM
Put Rios in the 2 hole.

voodoochile
04-18-2012, 02:18 PM
Put Rios in the 2 hole.

Or Ramirez. He's done well there in the past.

keloms
04-18-2012, 03:03 PM
because it was 11,267?

Yeah, that number is a stretch....

http://www.whosay.com/darrenrovell/photos/160211

sox37
04-18-2012, 03:48 PM
What about

1. De Aza
2. AJ
3. Paulie
4. Tank
5. Alexi
6. Rios
7. Dunn
8. Morel
9. Beckham


I rather like this lineup and had it in my head driving into the city today. Sure, I thought Morel would be better as he showed decent plate presence last year. However, I don't know how Robin can continue with his current lineup when there is no recent history that shows nothing other than Dunn, Morel and Beckham as easy outs.

Folks...this is Adam Dunn..this is it. Let him flounder towards the back of the order while he slowly gets his .210 BA 25 HRs, 65 RBIs and 200 SOs. Is Robin showing loyalty? He can't really continue to believe that Dunn is a present day middle of the lineup guy. Also, Beckham and Morel both need about 300 ABs at a lower level imo.

Golden Sox
04-18-2012, 04:12 PM
I realize the White Sox have to play both Rios and Dunn at this stage of the season. They are both being paid to much to sit on the bench this early in the season. Besides if they get hot and the team doesn't do well this year we might be able to move them at the trading deadline. That being said, I see no reason why Beckham and Morel are still in the starting lineup. Bench them or send them down to the minor leagues. They both have no business being in a starting lineup in the Major Leagues.

TaylorStSox
04-18-2012, 04:36 PM
Beckham's development was so badly mishandled that the Sox organization owes him a lot of patience. They brought him up way too soon and asked him to learn two new positions in two years, while learning to hit major league pitching with a wooden bat. (I still think his hitched swing looks like an aluminum bat swing.) I think it is a miracle that he has done as well as he has, playing good defense and occasionally showing flashes of hitting talent. This team is not going anywhere, so why not see if he can still develop into what most of us thought we were seeing when he came up? Otherwise, I can imagine Gordon Beckham would be the poster boy for poor Sox player handling and "development," making it harder to sign talented young players.

As for Morel, if there is a better option, go for it. But I don't see it.

Dunn? Same argument as last year: The Sox are not going to win without him so there is no point benching him, they just have to keep playing him and hoping. I don't agree with that argument, because I think Dunn is too one-dimensional to be the key to success, but I see no point in benching him.
Cry me a river. The guy's got about 1500 major league AB's and he's a terrible hitter. Maybe his first 3 months was the outlier and he's really not that good. You really think "talented young players" would care that Beckham was rushed? Every kid wants to be rushed to the big leagues. Nobody wants to play in the minors.

johnnyg83
04-18-2012, 05:29 PM
The way AJ has been driving in runs lately, I want him at the 5 spot.

Yeah that'd be fine too. My thinking was that they need him up to bat as many times as possible and this would do it aside from batting him leadoff which wouldn't work.

kittle42
04-18-2012, 05:38 PM
I realize the White Sox have to play both Rios and Dunn at this stage of the season. They are both being paid to much to sit on the bench this early in the season. Besides if they get hot and the team doesn't do well this year we might be able to move them at the trading deadline. That being said, I see no reason why Beckham and Morel are still in the starting lineup. Bench them or send them down to the minor leagues. They both have no business being in a starting lineup in the Major Leagues.

And insert whom? Escobar and Lillibridge? Escobar is a bench player who has never shone that brightly in his career. We have seen Lillibridge be not nearly as effective with consistent ABs. We know what they are. Do we know what Beckham and Morel are? Probably, but in a season that is really not predicated upon winning - with no viable minor league options - this is what we have for 2012. The time for change will be at the trade deadline and in the offseason.

It sucks being resigned to a losing, crap season. But it is what it is.

russ99
04-18-2012, 05:59 PM
Or Ramirez. He's done well there in the past.

In sure Alexei will end up batting second, it's just that historically he's awful in April.

I'm ok with the lineup except Morel in the 2 spot. Kinda wish we had a old-school leadoff hitter since DeAza would make a great #2 and seemingly can't bunt for hits or steal good enough for a prototypical leadoff guy.

Any leadoff men playing 2B out there we could grab In the next 2-3 years?

Zakath
04-18-2012, 06:57 PM
In sure Alexei will end up batting second, it's just that historically he's awful in April.


Hitting .263 this year, hit .265 last year.

Both of which, unless my math is way off, are significantly better than .118.

Wedema
04-18-2012, 07:13 PM
I was at the game and I'm not sure there were even that many. After the fifth inning they allowed all the people in the UD to move to the 300 level, which was nice.

Morel is just awful right now and while I don't think he's this bad, I also don't see him as a major league 2-hitter. I'd like to see Robin bat AJ second and move Viciedo into the 5-hole. You could maybe put Alexei second if he heats up with the weather.

From my seat in Section 129, I counted 55 fans in the upper deck on the third base side when the game started last night.