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View Full Version : *Official* "We have met the enemy, and they is us" 4/16 postgame thread


vinny
04-16-2012, 11:43 PM
Well, that sucked.

GoGoCrede
04-16-2012, 11:43 PM
And I very nearly got tickets for this one. :o:

Oh well. It was almost funny seeing how bad it got in that last inning.

Soxster67
04-16-2012, 11:44 PM
Disgusting... simply disgusting.

WhiteSox5187
04-16-2012, 11:44 PM
Meh, we just aren't that good.

Zakath
04-16-2012, 11:45 PM
:puking::help::upsidehead:

We need a :grouphug: right about now...

samurai_sox
04-16-2012, 11:45 PM
Shades of last year in april when the bullpen fell apart and Pierre would drop routine popups.

JB98
04-16-2012, 11:45 PM
The Sox aren't as good as they looked against Detroit. They aren't as bad as they looked tonight either.

The most likely outcome to this season is a middling record. Don't really see any reason to meltdown over this team this year.

PalehosePlanet
04-16-2012, 11:45 PM
Poor Robin will be staring at the ceiling for a while tonight before falling asleep.

A deflating, terrible loss.

CubKilla
04-16-2012, 11:45 PM
If you're gonna blow it, might as well REALLY blow it

LoveYourSuit
04-16-2012, 11:45 PM
The season does not officialy start for me until that White Sox April gut punch of a game.

Season is on now.

ChiSoxGal85
04-16-2012, 11:45 PM
Arrieta pitched very well, but the Orioles made a few mistakes and allowed the Sox to take the lead into the bottom of the 9th...at which point, the Sox said, "Oh, no. We just couldn't. Here, Baltimore, you take it." The last 2 innings of this game were a complete crapfest.

The good news about the bad news: Now that Santiago's blown a save, we'll get to see if he has closer mentality. Can he shake it off and perform tomorrow?

cheezheadsoxfan
04-16-2012, 11:46 PM
Some major suckage there. Tomorrow's another day.

RKMeibalane
04-16-2012, 11:47 PM
:selljerry

palehozenychicty
04-16-2012, 11:48 PM
Arrieta pitched very well, but the Orioles made a few mistakes and allowed the Sox to take the lead into the bottom of the 9th...at which point, the Sox said, "Oh, no. We just couldn't. Here, Baltimore, you take it." The last 2 innings of this game were a complete crapfest.

The good news about the bad news: Now that Santiago's blown a save, we'll get to see if he has closer mentality. Can he shake it off and perform tomorrow?

All of this sums up today.

Aesero
04-16-2012, 11:48 PM
Who was worse? Us or the Ump towards the end of the game?

That being said Santiago wasn't going to be perfect the entire year. One of these was going to happen sooner or later. Just feels awful when it does.

soxinem1
04-16-2012, 11:48 PM
The strike zone sucked all night, right down to the last pitch, but it is no excuse for not making the pitches and plays.

Coop was right, but you still can't keep hanging curves or throwing meat balls down the middle like tonight.

Too bad because Humber showed some heart.

Well, let's see how they bounce back.

vinny
04-16-2012, 11:49 PM
Really, we got a lot of mileage out of Humber tonight. We could have been out of it early.

The last two innings seemed like a perfect storm of young guys realizing, "Oh ****! We're not supposed to be this good!" Maybe they need a pep talk from Jim Leyland.

Tomorrow is another day.

JB98
04-16-2012, 11:49 PM
Arrieta pitched very well, but the Orioles made a few mistakes and allowed the Sox to take the lead into the bottom of the 9th...at which point, the Sox said, "Oh, no. We just couldn't. Here, Baltimore, you take it." The last 2 innings of this game were a complete crapfest.

The good news about the bad news: Now that Santiago's blown a save, we'll get to see if he has closer mentality. Can he shake it off and perform tomorrow?

That's really what this season is about finding things out about the young players on the roster. Hector's next outing will be his first real test.

Hendu
04-16-2012, 11:49 PM
That was just ugly on both sides. The O's just have more hitters that can make you pay for your mistakes.

GoGoCrede
04-16-2012, 11:50 PM
That was just ugly on both sides. The O's just have more hitters that can make you pay for your mistakes.

Plus I feel like the Sox are just awful against the Orioles in general.

russ99
04-16-2012, 11:51 PM
Can't use cold weather as an excuse for our putrid offense this year.

Robin and Kenny better figure something out with the pen fast. Not worried about Santiago, rookie outing. We just don't have enough reliable arms.

RKMeibalane
04-16-2012, 11:51 PM
That's really what this season is about finding things out about the young players on the roster. Hector's next outing will be his first real test.

Agreed. And I think Ventura's the right manager for him in this situation, because he'll send him right back out there if the Sox have a lead late.

amsteel
04-16-2012, 11:52 PM
The offense was 'good enough'. Humber was 'good enough'. Yes ADA made a pretty huge error, but the O's made 2 more errors than the Sox did and the bullpen was outright terrible.

Your season isn't gonna go too far when most of your major components are 'good enough'. People say something is 'good enough' when something isn't 'good'.

Steel yourself Sox fans, we're gonna lose alot of 10-4 ball games, not quite in that fashion, but they will happen. Rip the band-aid off and get the first nasty loss out of the way, cause we'll have plenty more all summer.

LoveYourSuit
04-16-2012, 11:53 PM
Really, we got a lot of mileage out of Humber tonight. We could have been out of it early.

The last two innings seemed like a perfect storm of young guys realizing, "Oh ****! We're not supposed to be this good!" Maybe they need a pep talk from Jim Leyland.

Tomorrow is another day.

Humber did hang in there, but one thing starting to concern me is these high pitch counts on the starters already this early. Please let this not be one of those seasons we burn-out the bullpen before July.

Lip Man 1
04-16-2012, 11:54 PM
Now THAT's the White Sox team we've grown to know and love since basically 2009.

Piss away a game to a **** team (again...)

First blown game this year when having a lead after the 7th inning or later.

Another solo home run (that's nine of 12 this year...) 1-6 with RISP.

It's not the umpires as some folks seem to think.

I understand JB's point about this team not going anywhere but they'll NEVER go anywhere in the future if they keep doing the same damn things that have caused them problems the past few seasons.

And regardless of whether this team wins 95 games or 75 or some number in between it's simply frustrating to lose games that you basically have put in the win column.

Lip

RKMeibalane
04-16-2012, 11:55 PM
And regardless of whether this team wins 95 games or 75 or some numbers in between it'ssimply frustrating to lose games that you basically have put in the win column.

This.

voodoochile
04-16-2012, 11:56 PM
You know some nights being a diehard sports fan is wonderful. Then there are nights like tonight...

I've got a headache and my eyes hurt from staring at two computer screens. I'm gonna go lie down watch yesterdays Family Guy and American dad on On Demand and cry myself to sleep...

Sigh...

Tragg
04-16-2012, 11:57 PM
Looks like we got close to zilch for Edwin Jackson. This consistent poor, poor return on trading assets is a major reason for the position we're in.
Obviously this team has little margin for error....and with so few hitters, we have to make them work for runs, which we did until the 9th.

We'll find out about Santiago; but also about this team and how it reacts to losing a game it was in a position to win until the last out in the 9th.

The best bullpen arms we have our on this team. Oh we might send down one young pitcher for another, but that's it. Mediocre veterans, especially trading young players for them, is not and rarely is the solution.

RowanDye
04-16-2012, 11:58 PM
"Stewart happy as repair man for Sox staff
By Scott Merkin / MLB.com | 04/16/12 8:37 PM ET"

Crestani
04-16-2012, 11:59 PM
WOW....That utterly sucked big time....I was very comfortable with the 4-2 lead in the 9th and then 2011 all over again..!!

JB98
04-17-2012, 12:00 AM
Now THAT's the White Sox team we've grown to know and love since basically 2009.

Piss away a game to a **** team (again...)

First blown game this year when having a lead after the 7th inning or later.

Another solo home run (that's nine of 12 this year...) 1-6 with RISP.

It's not the umpires as some folks seem to think.

I understand JB's point about this team not going anywhere but they'll NEVER go anywhere in the future if they keep doing the same damn things that have caused them problems the past few seasons.

And regardless of whether this team wins 95 games or 75 or some number in between it's simply frustrating to lose games that you basically have put in the win column.

Lip

That depends. If Santiago learns from his mistakes tonight, and he becomes a useful member of the bullpen moving foward, then tonight's loss is worth all the agony.

kidmccarthy
04-17-2012, 12:00 AM
The Orioles Definately match up well against our bullpen. A lot of Fastball hitters vs. Our Fastball first bullpen mentality, so they always get to us. Not the end of the world.

On another note, if Morel and Beckham are in the lineup tomorrow, we may have a stubborn manager. It's putrid to watch them hold a bat.

SoxSpeed22
04-17-2012, 12:00 AM
This had to happen sooner or later, just a complete disaster. Might as well get it out of the way early.
The ball was carrying today, we were also allowed to hit the ball in the air and let things happen. The key is how they respond tomorrow. ****.

JB98
04-17-2012, 12:01 AM
The Orioles Definately match up well against our bullpen. A lot of Fastball hitters vs. Our Fastball first bullpen mentality, so they always get to us. Not the end of the world.

On another note, if Morel and Beckham are in the lineup tomorrow, we may have a stubborn manager. It's putrid to watch them hold a bat.

We're not even 10 games into the season.

Don't worry. Robin is not Ozzie.

Brian26
04-17-2012, 12:02 AM
Robin and Kenny better figure something out with the pen fast. Not worried about Santiago, rookie outing. We just don't have enough reliable arms.

You're not worried about Santiago? He gave up a homer in Cleveland too. That's three homers now through 4.0 IP for him.

To disagree with the rest of your point, the bullpen has been fantastic so far because of all the arms. I'm not sure if we're watching the same team.

RKMeibalane
04-17-2012, 12:04 AM
On another note, if Morel and Beckham are in the lineup tomorrow, we may have a stubborn manager. It's putrid to watch them hold a bat.

Who would you suggest Ventura use otherwise? The Sox don't have that much depth.

And for all of his problems offensively, Beckham has done a nice job with the glove. He still has value as long as he can field.

Morel, on the other hand... :cool:

Noneck
04-17-2012, 12:04 AM
This team will have defensive problems in the OF all year. De Aza is not a good ofer, Viciedo will show his true defensive skills soon. I dont think Beckham is a major leaguer. Having 2 rookies in major relief roles at the start of a year is not a thing a club should want. Im not saying this because of this loss but this game showed these flaws all at once. I was hoping to see some life in the bottom of 10th not a miracle come back but something. That bothered me how the 1,2,3 hitters went down.

LoveYourSuit
04-17-2012, 12:05 AM
You're not worried about Santiago? He gave up a homer in Cleveland too. That's three homers now through 4.0 IP for him.

To disagree with the rest of your point, the bullpen has been fantastic so far because of all the arms. I'm not sure if we're watching the same team.

That's not a good ratio for a closer, especially considering how many one run games they will come into.

It's a very small sample size, but kid is going to have to figure how to throw strikes with his offspeed stuff if he plans to close.

guillensdisciple
04-17-2012, 12:05 AM
It's not 2011 all over again. Whether you guys believe it or not this team is different from last year. Many new faces, and a different direction. This loss is just that- a loss. Once again, as a poster said , this team is better than the 67 win prediction and is no way a 100 win either. Probably average to below average. I do think Santiago will be a really good closer though, and it is good that he will get these heartaches out of the way soon.

Beckham is a horrible baseball player. Our offense is rough. That's my analysis.

RKMeibalane
04-17-2012, 12:06 AM
You're not worried about Santiago? He gave up a homer in Cleveland too. That's three homers now through 4.0 IP for him.

To disagree with the rest of your point, the bullpen has been fantastic so far because of all the arms. I'm not sure if we're watching the same team.

Santiago's next outing is important. If he can go back out there without a problem, it's an encouraging sign. If tonight's outing is a sign of things to come... :o:

RKMeibalane
04-17-2012, 12:07 AM
Is Frank at the post-game desk? What is he saying?

LoveYourSuit
04-17-2012, 12:07 AM
Who would you suggest Ventura use otherwise? The Sox don't have that much depth.

And for all of his problems offensively, Beckham has done a nice job with the glove. He still has value as long as he can field.

Morel, on the other hand... :cool:


I see more potential in Morel's bat than Beckham.

The Sox should do the right thing and send Beckham to AAA to learn to hit again.

guillensdisciple
04-17-2012, 12:09 AM
I see more potential in Morel's bat than Beckham.

The Sox should do the right thing and send Beckham to AAA to learn to hit again.

Too old- time to go into a new direction.

kidmccarthy
04-17-2012, 12:10 AM
Who would you suggest Ventura use otherwise? The Sox don't have that much depth.

And for all of his problems offensively, Beckham has done a nice job with the glove. He still has value as long as he can field.

Morel, on the other hand... :cool:

I'd put in Lillibridge at the very least for a couple games. The problem is Gordon has such a hitch in his swing that I doubt he can fix it against top Notch MLB pitchers. I just don't know what they can do with him anymore. Im not down on the team at all...bad loss is okay. 2 auto outs and 2-3 strikeout machines is not productive...

JB98
04-17-2012, 12:11 AM
It's not 2011 all over again. Whether you guys believe it or not this team is different from last year. Many new faces, and a different direction. This loss is just that- a loss. Once again, as a poster said , this team is better than the 67 win prediction and is no way a 100 win either. Probably average to below average. I do think Santiago will be a really good closer though, and it is good that he will get these heartaches out of the way soon.

Beckham is a horrible baseball player. Our offense is rough. That's my analysis.

Agreed. The "2011 all over again" stuff is becoming an obnoxious WSI meme.

Marqhead
04-17-2012, 12:13 AM
I usually hate leaving a game early, but it's probably a good thing we dipped out in the middle of the 8th.

Exciting game up to that point.

Morel rolled me a ball too which was cool. :cool:

KnightSox
04-17-2012, 12:18 AM
Dark clouds already? Comparisons to 2011? We lost a game we had in our back pocket, which pretty much every team does.

It stings, we'll get over it. The good I have seen so far outweighs the bad.

palehozenychicty
04-17-2012, 12:38 AM
Tough loss, but that's baseball sometimes. The Orioles actually have a good young lineup. Their pitching staff is what's atrocious.

TaylorStSox
04-17-2012, 12:40 AM
That's really what this season is about finding things out about the young players on the roster. Hector's next outing will be his first real test.
Agreed. I don't have any expectations for this season outside of player growth. Let's see how De Aza, Santiago and Stewart rebound.

tstrike2000
04-17-2012, 12:42 AM
Well that sucked. Just got back from the ballpark with my wife and haven't seen an implosion like that in a while. After Thornton, it just wasn't the bullpen's night. I had a really bad feeling when Jones hit that rocket to tie the game off of Santiago in the 9th. When De Aza misplayed the ball at the wall off the bat of Reynolds in the 10th, it really went down the toilet from there.

Just one game though, come back and get them tomorrow.

ChiSoxGal85
04-17-2012, 12:52 AM
Last year I would have been hurling stuffed dog toys and expletives at the TV during the 9th and 10th innings. My expectations are a bit more realistic this year; even though it was a crapfest, neither dog toys nor my television were harmed tonight. And...it's early. :D:
I see more potential in Morel's bat than Beckham.

The Sox should do the right thing and send Beckham to AAA to learn to hit again.
I saw something today about June something-or-other (can't remember the exact date) as the deadline that allows Gordon to be sent to the minors without having to go on waivers. If he doesn't show improvement by Memorial Day, is there any downside to sending him to AAA? I mean contract or otherwise? I've heard the "he won't see major league pitching in the minors" argument, just wondered what the other considerations might be.

Beckham's glove is so good, it's really a shame he hasn't been able to get the hitting figured out.

Foulke You
04-17-2012, 12:52 AM
You're not worried about Santiago? He gave up a homer in Cleveland too. That's three homers now through 4.0 IP for him.
There is a lot to like about Santiago. He has a plus fastball, a sweeping curve, and a screwball. Throw in the fact that he attacks hitters and doesn't appear timid and you can see that he has the stuff to be a dominant closer. I think he is still learning how to pitch at the big league level which is the danger of putting a rookie in the closer spot. I wanted Crain closing games from the beginning because of his experience, array of pitches, and an excellent pickoff move. However, after seeing more of Santiago's stuff, you can see why Robin and Cooper felt he could close out games. It may end up being the right decision if Hector shakes off what happened tonight.

I do question the pitch selection to Adam Jones in that 9th inning though. Fastballs to Reimold with a 2 run lead and the bases empty is ok. After the O's cut it to 1 run, Jones should have been seeing a steady diet of screwballs and sweepers. He is the best hitter on that team. Not sure if that was AJ calling for the gas but it just didn't seem like the right plan of attack in that AB.

Nellie_Fox
04-17-2012, 12:57 AM
Agreed. The "2011 all over again" stuff is becoming an obnoxious WSI meme.The word "meme" is becoming an obnoxious meme.

thomas35forever
04-17-2012, 12:58 AM
Santos had a similar end to his perfection last year. Of course, it sucks just as much that the O's broke it open in the 10th. Forget it and move on.

Foulke You
04-17-2012, 12:59 AM
Dark clouds already? Comparisons to 2011? We lost a game we had in our back pocket, which pretty much every team does.

It stings, we'll get over it. The good I have seen so far outweighs the bad.
The dark clouds always come after a gut puncher loss. 'Tis the fatalistic nature of Sox fans. I'm eager to see how the team responds tomorrow. This game is a distant memory if you take the next 3 games.

WhiteSox5187
04-17-2012, 01:03 AM
Looks like we got close to zilch for Edwin Jackson. This consistent poor, poor return on trading assets is a major reason for the position we're in.
Obviously this team has little margin for error....and with so few hitters, we have to make them work for runs, which we did until the 9th.

We'll find out about Santiago; but also about this team and how it reacts to losing a game it was in a position to win until the last out in the 9th.

The best bullpen arms we have our on this team. Oh we might send down one young pitcher for another, but that's it. Mediocre veterans, especially trading young players for them, is not and rarely is the solution.

That was such a terrible trade on both ends. Ugh...

cws05champ
04-17-2012, 01:06 AM
Man, Bobby Jenks always blows it against the Orioles.....oh wait.

sox102
04-17-2012, 01:09 AM
I usually hate leaving a game early, but it's probably a good thing we dipped out in the middle of the 8th.

Exciting game up to that point.

Morel rolled me a ball too which was cool. :cool:

Same for me. We were going to leave the same time but figured there were only three more outs. Boy was I wrong.....

kevingrt
04-17-2012, 01:23 AM
Tough loss, but that's baseball sometimes. The Orioles actually have a good young lineup. Their pitching staff is what's atrocious.

Yeah tough loss but the bullpen is going to blow sometimes. Just got to sure to keep it to a minimum. Hopefully Hector can get right back out there tomorrow and mow them down.

FWIW Hector looked hideous in his bullpen work before the ninth. Probably doesn't mean anything but I definitely noticed it sitting out there tonight.

Foulke You
04-17-2012, 01:26 AM
FWIW Hector looked hideous in his bullpen work before the ninth. Probably doesn't mean anything but I definitely noticed it sitting out there tonight.
Interesting. Was he missing his spots with the secondary pitches? It could shed some light on why he was throwing about 85% heaters in the 9th inning.

hawkjt
04-17-2012, 02:29 AM
The O's have quite a few good hitters...more than the Sox.
Arrieta is a talented pitcher.

They are in 1st place right now for a reason...they are playing good ball.
It is a shame this had to happen,but pretty much everyone has blown a save in the AL this year,so I guess it was the Sox turn.

This O's lineup can really hit for power....playing in the AL East they have to hit or die.

TDog
04-17-2012, 03:08 AM
Meh, we just aren't that good.

Because the Sox lost a game that should have won? Because the Orioles once again knocked around the Chicago bullpen even though Bobby Jenks hasn't been part of it in a couple of years?

Teams lose. Even closers White Sox fans drool over blow saves. The last time a White Sox closer gave up at least two home runs and the lead in the ninth in a loss wasn't that long ago. Santos did it last Sept. 3 against the Tigers. Eleven days later, he blew a ninth-inning save giving up only one home run in a loss to the Tigers. This year, Santos has only given up one ninth-inning home run to lose a game, but he has only had two save opportunities.

A tough loss, certainly. It may be tough enough that a lot of the excitement people have been feeling over the fast start (now 5-4, a game behind last year's dismal "this-team-wasn't-properly-prepared" 6-3 start) will have, no doubt, evaporated. It's possible that the White Sox just aren't that good this year, but you can't make that judgment from a game they were two outs (and no one on base) away from winning.

It is troublesome that De Aza has made pivotal defensive mistakes in two consecutive games, especially considering the role that bad outfield defense played in last season's poor April. And the poor showing against a team that doesn't have the depth of the Tigers is disappointing. It doesn't help to consider that this game was won but for what a couple of days ago was the league's most successful bullpen. The nine runs allowed has to be more than the Sox bullpen had given up all season prior to tonight.

Some will rail against the hitting, which continues to be weaker than it was at the start of 2011, but four runs should have been plenty tonight.

On a positive note, Humber pitched well in his first start.

Bucky F. Dent
04-17-2012, 08:04 AM
On a positive note, Humber pitched well in his first start.

Because I can't walk around all day with that 10th inning sitting in my gut, I'll remember this.

Zakath
04-17-2012, 08:07 AM
I see more potential in Morel's bat than Beckham.

The Sox should do the right thing and send Beckham to AAA to learn to hit again.

At this moment, I think that their problems are different. Beckham's problem is fundamental; he lost the swing he had when he first came up. That's going to take a complete reworking.

Morel's problem is motivational. He's pretty flat-footed up there and looks like he's swinging with his arms only. Pitchers are living on the outside corner against him and without any lifting of the front foot and driving into the ball the best he can do, if he even swings at it, is flail away at it, which means you're either going to foul it off or hit something weak to the right side. That problem seems to be easier to fix.

You can't keep him in the 2 hole, because even if de Aza gets on, Morel's ill-equipped to move him over at this time. We have a lot of other options in that spot.

Zakath
04-17-2012, 08:28 AM
The O's have quite a few good hitters...more than the Sox.
Arrieta is a talented pitcher.


We had him beaten. He is a good pitcher, no doubt, who has pretty good command and a curve ball that can be really nasty, but we had gotten to him.

They do have a few talented hitters, who if you keep feeding fastballs to, can hit it a long way.


They are in 1st place right now for a reason...they are playing good ball.


They also got to play the worst team in baseball the first series of the season, which gave them 3 easy wins (that would be the Twins). Then the Yankees came to town, and swept them.

They're still a **** team that we had beaten, and gift-wrapped a win for them.

Viva Medias B's
04-17-2012, 08:41 AM
I went right to bed once we fell behind. I was asleep even before the grand slam. So I was spared the horror of that and the sounds of callers to the postgame show.

asindc
04-17-2012, 08:54 AM
Another ugly late-inning loss to Baltimore. As someone who has sat through many of them in person, this was not pleasant, to say the very least. My take on it is that inexperienced players (Santiago, De Aza, Stewart) will look the part at times. Sucks that it happened all at once at the end of this game.

Humber looked good. AJ is red-hot. Pauly is one of the top-10 professional hitters in the AL. The IF defense is as solid as anyone's in the AL. Thornton looks like he has put 2011 behind him. Since this season is more about evaluating what we have going beyond 2012, I'll chalk this up as a growing pain loss.

Hitmen77
04-17-2012, 08:58 AM
Can't use cold weather as an excuse for our putrid offense this year.

Robin and Kenny better figure something out with the pen fast. Not worried about Santiago, rookie outing. We just don't have enough reliable arms.

It actually was fairly cold outside last night. But, I never liked the Sox cold weather excuse of the last few years regardless.

Hitmen77
04-17-2012, 09:00 AM
Looks like we got close to zilch for Edwin Jackson. This consistent poor, poor return on trading assets is a major reason for the position we're in.
Obviously this team has little margin for error....and with so few hitters, we have to make them work for runs, which we did until the 9th.

We'll find out about Santiago; but also about this team and how it reacts to losing a game it was in a position to win until the last out in the 9th.

The best bullpen arms we have our on this team. Oh we might send down one young pitcher for another, but that's it. Mediocre veterans, especially trading young players for them, is not and rarely is the solution.

We essentially traded Daniel Hudson for Zach Stewart (with $10M thrown at Jackson in between). It'll be interesting to see this year how these two pitchers perform.

veeter
04-17-2012, 09:13 AM
I agree with all the 'let's see how they bounce back' stuff. Because I think how the team responds to these tough losses, will be one of Robin's strengths. Santiago will be fine if he's not asked to throw 90% straight fastballs. Was that because he's not locating his breaking stuff or is it because AJ is a bonehead? To me, a few more breaking balls to Reimold and Jones and we're celebrating today. I'd DH AJ and let Flowers catch. The pitchers love how he calls a game.

October26
04-17-2012, 09:15 AM
You know some nights being a diehard sports fan is wonderful. Then there are nights like tonight...

I've got a headache and my eyes hurt from staring at two computer screens. I'm gonna go lie down watch yesterdays Family Guy and American dad on On Demand and cry myself to sleep...

Sigh...

Voodoo, my eyes still sting from watching the terrible ending to last night's game; that one hurt.

On a positive note, I am glad to see Viciedo continue to try to hit the ball to right field. It appears that the Sox hitting coach, Manto, is placing a strong emphasis on this as a new approach for Viciedo. I know the box score from last night's game reads that Viciedo was only 1-3 and he hit into a DP, but I still think trying to hit to right field is good for Viciedo. Last year, Viciedo kept trying to pull everything resulting in lots of groundouts. Hopefully, the results are better for Viciedo and the Sox this year.

As for Santiago, I'm really rooting for the rookie to bounce back after his first blown save. Hopefully, he gets into tonight's game and saves the game for the Sox.

DrCrawdad
04-17-2012, 09:27 AM
That being said Santiago wasn't going to be perfect the entire year. One of these was going to happen sooner or later. Just feels awful when it does.

Arrieta pitched very well, but the Orioles made a few mistakes and allowed the Sox to take the lead into the bottom of the 9th...at which point, the Sox said, "Oh, no. We just couldn't. Here, Baltimore, you take it." The last 2 innings of this game were a complete crapfest.

The good news about the bad news: Now that Santiago's blown a save, we'll get to see if he has closer mentality. Can he shake it off and perform tomorrow?

Santiago seemed to me to be throwing nothing but straight fastballs, meatballs.

Ugh! That game had an all too familiar feel to it.

KMcMahon817
04-17-2012, 09:37 AM
That game really sucked. We sure gave it away. That 9th inning sure reminded me of a few years back with Jenks always blowing saves against the O's.

I know Santiago does not want to overuse his screwball, but the pitch is just flat out filithy. Right after Jones went yard after a diet of all hard stuff, he made Paulino just look silly on two screwballs. If he is going to be the go-to guy in the 9th moving forward, he needs to use that screwball more than 10-15% of his pitches. He's got some nice zing on his fastball, but it isn't exactly a plus-plus pitch. I like the kid, and am not ragging on him at all, but just use that screwball a little more.

Beckham is extremly worrisome. I have been one of his biggest supporters over the years, but I fear his life as a regular is coming to an end. I think I could strike him out right now.

I am not as concerned with Morel. He obviously is not hacking it at the 2 spot, but he will be fine at this dish with time.

Humber looked solid. If we can get a similar season to 2011 out of Humber, we will be in the thick of things come August.

Let's go get this one tonight, Johnny.

shingo10
04-17-2012, 09:39 AM
A couple days ago the popular opinion was the Sox are going to contend all year. Today they have no chance to be competitive all year. Too many extremes and not enough baseball. Let's see where we are at the end of the month.

After watching the Sox blow numerous 9th inning leads the past couple of years, I can't for the life of me think of the last time they came back to win a game in the 9th. Anyone remember? I know they did it against Nathan in the final game at the Twinkie Dome but surely they have had to comeback since then? That was in 2009.

KMcMahon817
04-17-2012, 09:42 AM
Looks like we got close to zilch for Edwin Jackson. This consistent poor, poor return on trading assets is a major reason for the position we're in.
Obviously this team has little margin for error....and with so few hitters, we have to make them work for runs, which we did until the 9th.

We'll find out about Santiago; but also about this team and how it reacts to losing a game it was in a position to win until the last out in the 9th.

The best bullpen arms we have our on this team. Oh we might send down one young pitcher for another, but that's it. Mediocre veterans, especially trading young players for them, is not and rarely is the solution.

We got rid of Teahen and his $5M contract for 2012. It was not a good trade, but it solved a problem. Edwin would have simply walked, likely without compensation, at then end of the year, so really, it wasn't that bad. Time to move on.

Procol Harum
04-17-2012, 09:46 AM
The trouble we have with the stinkin' Orioles the last few years has been particularly galling, particularly as it seems that we have a penchant for losing games to them late.

However, it's good to remember that their degree of stinkage is amplified by the fact of their division residence--if they didn't spend nearly half the season getting clubbed by NY, Boston, Tampa, and Toronto that under 70 wins track record the last several years would've been better. Put them in the Central or out in the West and undoubtedly they'd have pushed that win total up 8-10 games per season. Still, hardly the gold standard.... :mad:

Harry Chappas
04-17-2012, 11:18 AM
We had him beaten. He is a good pitcher, no doubt, who has pretty good command and a curve ball that can be really nasty, but we had gotten to him.

They do have a few talented hitters, who if you keep feeding fastballs to, can hit it a long way.



They also got to play the worst team in baseball the first series of the season, which gave them 3 easy wins (that would be the Twins). Then the Yankees came to town, and swept them.

They're still a **** team that we had beaten, and gift-wrapped a win for them.

I'm not sure I understand the pitch selection for Santiago. The Orioles seem to feast on fast balls and that's what they got a steady diet of. Seems like the homer he gave up in his previous outing came in an at-bat where he kept throwing his FB. Maybe Santiago was having trouble locating his off-speed stuff but if he can't get command of his other pitches, he's in for a short stint as a closer. That said, it's way too early to pull the plug although it's nice that we have Crain waiting in the wings.

This could shape up to be a frustrating year. I think we have the pitching and defense to play a lot of teams close, but we're getting almost nothing from Rios, Beckham, and Morel and I'll be honest - I really expected them hit early and often. The pressures of the "all in" year are gone. The Sox are basically getting a mulligan this year. They also got rid of a clubhouse cancer in Guillen and brought in a new hitting coach.

Lip Man 1
04-17-2012, 12:06 PM
Can't speak for 2011, but in 2010, the Sox rallied five times in the 9th inning to win the game, the last time on Sept. 22nd at Oakland.

Lip

soxinem1
04-17-2012, 02:04 PM
Every team is going to have plenty of games where they snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, or snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Even with a game like last night when BAL just kept handing it to us, hey, this just happens.

We should not be crybabies like BOS was yesterday bitching about the five balls that struck out Cody Ross, which however true, didn't reflect the fact that the strike zone was called like that for both teams all day.

Same with us yesterday. I know Cooper was protecting his pitcher when he got tossed, but both Humber and Crain got some real generous calls. The K zone stunk all game, but it was pretty consistent until the bottom of the 10th. By then, the home plate ump was doing us a favor trying to end the game quicker.

The true sign of a solid club is one that bounces back quickly from such debacles. True, the pitch selection by Santiago sucked, and true, our defense the last couple innings looked like the Orioles in the first seven innings of the game.

But both 95 win and 95 loss teams go through this.

Honestly, the best time to access the 2012 season will be around the 30 game mark, then the 50 game mark.

Over By There
04-17-2012, 03:04 PM
Eh, that game last night was one that was going to happen, and will happen to most every team at some point this year. It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, but they just happen. My outlook hasn't changed significantly from 24 hours ago, and I agree that the real test for Santiago comes now - how does he bounce back and adjust.

Stewart seems to me to be nothing better than a mop-up man/long reliever. I did find myself watching Gordon last night thinking that it may finally be time for this to end. I don't know if he can be sent to Charlotte at this point, but despite his glove, I don't know how much longer you can watch him flail away at the MLB level. He is majorly screwed up at the plate.

TaylorStSox
04-17-2012, 03:12 PM
Santiago made Jones look bad on a couple pitches. I'm guessing AJ thought Jones couldn't catch up to his fastball.

tstrike2000
04-17-2012, 03:15 PM
Eh, that game last night was one that was going to happen, and will happen to most every team at some point this year. It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, but they just happen. My outlook hasn't changed significantly from 24 hours ago, and I agree that the real test for Santiago comes now - how does he bounce back and adjust.

Stewart seems to me to be nothing better than a mop-up man/long reliever. I did find myself watching Gordon last night thinking that it may finally be time for this to end. I don't know if he can be sent to Charlotte at this point, but despite his glove, I don't know how much longer you can watch him flail away at the MLB level. He is majorly screwed up at the plate.

Both Morel and Beckham are in a funk. Beckham's 3-for-26 and Morel's 3-for-29 on the season so far. Pretty soon they'll have to move Morel down the order because your #9 and #2 hitters are both automatic outs. Not really sure what else can be done besides try to put Lillibridge in there more.

Harry Chappas
04-17-2012, 05:33 PM
Both Morel and Beckham are in a funk. Beckham's 3-for-26 and Morel's 3-for-29 on the season so far. Pretty soon they'll have to move Morel down the order because your #9 and #2 hitters are both automatic outs. Not really sure what else can be done besides try to put Lillibridge in there more.

I'd like to see more of Lillibridge and Escobar. We sacrifice some (maybe a lot) on defense but I think they're both better offensive options. Let Gordon and Morel clear their heads. It's pretty hard to watch either of them. They both look completely lost - Beckham especially.

SephClone89
04-17-2012, 05:48 PM
I'd like to see more of Lillibridge and Escobar. We sacrifice some (maybe a lot) on defense but I think they're both better offensive options.

I believe the book on Escobar was/is that while he has a great glove, no one thinks he can hit at the major league level.

kittle42
04-17-2012, 06:05 PM
I believe the book on Escobar was/is that while he has a great glove, no one thinks he can hit at the major league level.

Well, we *know* the guy he'd be replacing can't. :tongue:

soxinem1
04-19-2012, 10:39 AM
I'd like to see more of Lillibridge and Escobar. We sacrifice some (maybe a lot) on defense but I think they're both better offensive options. Let Gordon and Morel clear their heads. It's pretty hard to watch either of them. They both look completely lost - Beckham especially.

I am kind of curious why Lillibridge is not playing a little more. Robin should find a way to get him in the lineup 2-3 times a week, especially with Beckham, Dunn, Rios not producing much.

DonnieDarko
04-19-2012, 10:54 AM
I am kind of curious why Lillibridge is not playing a little more. Robin should find a way to get him in the lineup 2-3 times a week, especially with Beckham, Dunn, Rios not producing much.

Rios is at least hitting decently well. I wish that he wouldn't get thrown out so much on the basepaths, though...