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View Full Version : Retribution a Year Later?


Brian26
04-14-2012, 10:29 PM
Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere yet. Delmon Young's been hit three times in the last two games. The first HBP today was in on the hands and Young leaned into it, but Floyd may have just missed in. The 2nd HBP was drilled into his back, no doubt about it. I didn't see the broadcast yesterday, so I couldn't get a read on the location of the pitch that hit him.

Where I'm going with this....didn't Delmon pull some BS with AJ late last year, perhaps in a September game in Detroit? I'm recalling Delmon stiff-arming AJ when there wasn't even a play at the plate and AJ was standing several feet away from the baseline.

This is another refreshing change of the Ventura era. Glad things are being taken care of the right way. This only brings the team together more, knowing they will back each other up.

SephClone89
04-14-2012, 10:32 PM
You're thinking of 2010 in Minnesota.

DickAllen72
04-14-2012, 10:35 PM
Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere yet. Delmon Young's been hit three times in the last two games. The first HBP today was in on the hands and Young leaned into it, but Floyd may have just missed in. The 2nd HBP was drilled into his back, no doubt about it. I didn't see the broadcast yesterday, so I couldn't get a read on the location of the pitch that hit him.

Where I'm going with this....didn't Delmon pull some BS with AJ late last year, perhaps in a September game in Detroit? I'm recalling Delmon stiff-arming AJ when there wasn't even a play at the plate and AJ was standing several feet away from the baseline.

This is another refreshing change of the Ventura era. Glad things are being taken care of the right way. This only brings the team together more, knowing they will back each other up.
I've noticed this and I'm loving it. Last season I wanted Sox pitchers to put one in Delmon's ribs every game they faced him but they wouldn't even throw in on him.

It's refreshing not to have Ozzie around shooting off his mouth in the media, antagonizing the umpires and the opposition about how he's going to have his pitchers protect his hitters and then watching them do absolutely nothing while the Sox would lead the league in having their batters HBP.

PalehosePlanet
04-14-2012, 10:39 PM
Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere yet. Delmon Young's been hit three times in the last two games. The first HBP today was in on the hands and Young leaned into it, but Floyd may have just missed in. The 2nd HBP was drilled into his back, no doubt about it. I didn't see the broadcast yesterday, so I couldn't get a read on the location of the pitch that hit him.

Where I'm going with this....didn't Delmon pull some BS with AJ late last year, perhaps in a September game in Detroit? I'm recalling Delmon stiff-arming AJ when there wasn't even a play at the plate and AJ was standing several feet away from the baseline.

This is another refreshing change of the Ventura era. Glad things are being taken care of the right way. This only brings the team together more, knowing they will back each other up.

I don't know, maybe I'm just an *******, but I was absolutely giddy after Gavin drilled him in the back. I rewound the DVR to watch it again and again and laughed like I was watching Carlin or Pryor doing stand-up.

Yes. I despise Delmon Young.

DickAllen72
04-14-2012, 10:40 PM
You're thinking of 2010 in Minnesota.
Yes. And Ozzie had no problem with Young's cheap shot on AJ.

The Immigrant
04-14-2012, 10:47 PM
Our pitchers are throwing inside again. I almost forgot what that was like.

BRDSR
04-14-2012, 10:52 PM
I think that was retribution, but not for anything that happened in a prior season. In today's game, the first time he got hit, Young leaned into a pitch by rotating his back shoulder away from the plate and his front shoulder toward the plate. This gives the appearance that he's trying to avoid being hit when in fact he's trying to take a glancing blow.

He did the exact same thing on the pitch before Floyd drilled him, he just didn't happen to take a glancing blow that time. Floyd noticed and said to himself "If Young is going to get on with a HBP, it's not going to be a cheap HBP," and then drilled him in the back. I liked the play, but you have to pick your spots on stuff like that, being careful not to cut off your nose to spite your face. If you're going to do it, you have to keep that hitter from crossing the plate. Without going back to check, I think we had a one-run lead at the time and there was one out. That would definitely be right on the line as far as whether it's a good time to do it. Two outs and a two or three run lead seems safer. If Young had come around to score, it wouldn't have seemed like such a good idea.

voodoochile
04-14-2012, 11:01 PM
Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere yet. Delmon Young's been hit three times in the last two games. The first HBP today was in on the hands and Young leaned into it, but Floyd may have just missed in. The 2nd HBP was drilled into his back, no doubt about it. I didn't see the broadcast yesterday, so I couldn't get a read on the location of the pitch that hit him.

Where I'm going with this....didn't Delmon pull some BS with AJ late last year, perhaps in a September game in Detroit? I'm recalling Delmon stiff-arming AJ when there wasn't even a play at the plate and AJ was standing several feet away from the baseline.

This is another refreshing change of the Ventura era. Glad things are being taken care of the right way. This only brings the team together more, knowing they will back each other up.

Maybe it's simpler than that. I've always said if you want to get hit (as you imply he did on the first time) then the next time you drill him to send a message. "Oh you WANT to get hit... Okay, here ya go..."

Brian26
04-14-2012, 11:10 PM
Maybe it's simpler than that. I've always said if you want to get hit (as you imply he did on the first time) then the next time you drill him to send a message. "Oh you WANT to get hit... Okay, here ya go..."

What I meant to say, although I did a poor job, is that maybe Floyd missed in (meaning he meant to be even farther outside and hit him on the first chance). The first HBP was on a 1-1 count with one out and nobody on. The second HBP (obviously intentional, between the numbers on the back) was on a 2-0 count with one out and nobody on. But, who knows. Either way, it makes a statement, which I like.

kufram
04-15-2012, 06:25 AM
It could have been intentional but Floyd also missed badly with a number of pitches.

hawkjt
04-15-2012, 07:52 AM
Do I think it was intentional? Probably not.
Could it have been intentional? Yes.
Should it have been intentional? Yes.
Why?
1. Payback for the Minny incident? Unlikely,this should have happened last year...as Hawk says..you file it..but not for this long.

2. Payback for leaning in and drawing the HBP the first time up? More likely. He was hit on Friday also,brushing his uni. The guy hangs over the plate and he needs to be backed away...he did not take the hint the first two times,so a more emphatic message needed to be sent.

3. Gavin's lack of command? Most likely. Gavin is not the kind of Peavy-type of personality to go after guys,but if he did,I like it. He did not have great command,tho,so that could have just gotten away.
Still, lack of precise command is a good excuse for having one get away and accomplishing #1 and #2.

Bottom line, I hope the Sox will pitch inside,and stop being the fricking punching bags of the league where they lead the league in getting hit,and are the least likely to hit someone....that has got to end this year.

DumpJerry
04-15-2012, 09:25 AM
Whenever I see Delmon Young, I'm reminded how I was at his MLB debut in 2006 which was at Comiskey. The first pitch from Garcia drilled him square in the back. It did not get more intentional than that. The Ump looked at Young with a "welcome to the Show, jerk" glance. Later than season, Garcia came close to a no-no and perfercto in two different games while getting every "close" call from the umps.

Yesterday, Floyd hits him twice, no warning.

Why the favorable treatment? Earlier in the 2006 season during a minor league game, Young tossed a bat at an Ump who rang him up on a called third strike and got 50 days off.

102605
04-15-2012, 09:44 AM
Our pitchers are throwing inside again. I almost forgot what that was like.

The Ozzie lynch mob is absolutely out of their minds. Yeah, I am sure Ozzie instructed his pitchers to not pitch inside the whole time he was here.:rolleyes:

DumpJerry
04-15-2012, 09:48 AM
The Ozzie lynch mob is absolutely out of their minds. Yeah, I am sure Ozzie instructed his pitchers to not pitch inside the whole time he was here.:rolleyes:
Well, for every 10 Sox batters hit by a pitch, Sox pitchers would hit........zero under Ozzie.

I guess Carlos Quentin could say that Ozzie was a pain in the butt, literally.

If Ozzie gets out of baseball, he should not become an insurance agent because protection is not his thing.

DrCrawdad
04-15-2012, 09:54 AM
Maybe it's simpler than that. I've always said if you want to get hit (as you imply he did on the first time) then the next time you drill him to send a message. "Oh you WANT to get hit... Okay, here ya go..."

That's what I thought it was. And given Gavin's lack of command/control in the game it provided cover for plunking Delmon square in the back.

Milw
04-15-2012, 10:15 AM
The Ozzie lynch mob is absolutely out of their minds. Yeah, I am sure Ozzie instructed his pitchers to not pitch inside the whole time he was here.:rolleyes:
It's not that he told them not to do it. It's that he didn't tell them to do it.* Same net effect.

*This is admittedly an assumption. But it sure seems like our starters have a different mindset this season than they have in a long time, and I don't think that's a coincidence.

kufram
04-15-2012, 10:33 AM
It's not that he told them not to do it. It's that he didn't tell them to do it.* Same net effect.

*This is admittedly an assumption. But it sure seems like our starters have a different mindset this season than they have in a long time, and I don't think that's a coincidence.


I'm not so sure about all of this. I seem to remember a pitcher getting a very hard time from Ozzie in the dugout for not hitting a batter when told to. I think he was gone the next day. All of this is supposition. If a pitcher really wanted to hit a batter he was the guy on the mound.... Ozzie was in the dugout.

Milw
04-15-2012, 10:41 AM
I'm not so sure about all of this. I seem to remember a pitcher getting a very hard time from Ozzie in the dugout for not hitting a batter when told to. I think he was gone the next day. All of this is supposition. If a pitcher really wanted to hit a batter he was the guy on the mound.... Ozzie was in the dugout.
Yeah, that was in like 2008. And after that incident, the Sox almost never threw inside for the rest of Ozzie's tenure. I don't know if he was upset with the flak he took publicly or if he just didn't care anymore, but that was a turning point in Ozzie's managerial style, and not for the better.

voodoochile
04-15-2012, 11:02 AM
It's not that he told them not to do it. It's that he didn't tell them to do it.* Same net effect.

*This is admittedly an assumption. But it sure seems like our starters have a different mindset this season than they have in a long time, and I don't think that's a coincidence.

If the league ever found out that a manager actually instructed a pitcher to plunk someone the suspension would be measured in weeks. It's the kind of thing that is done with a wink/nod or a pre-understanding, not something that is actually said at least not in any kind of open way.

Garland used to plunk guys when he'd get pissed. Couple times I saw him smirk afterwards. Got to a point I could feel it coming.

I wouldn't mind if our pitchers got more aggressive backing guys off, but like anything you can't overuse it.

doublem23
04-15-2012, 11:08 AM
Yeah, that was in like 2008. And after that incident, the Sox almost never threw inside for the rest of Ozzie's tenure. I don't know if he was upset with the flak he took publicly or if he just didn't care anymore, but that was a turning point in Ozzie's managerial style, and not for the better.

You might be on to something

DickAllen72
04-15-2012, 11:35 AM
Yeah, that was in like 2008. And after that incident, the Sox almost never threw inside for the rest of Ozzie's tenure. I don't know if he was upset with the flak he took publicly or if he just didn't care anymore, but that was a turning point in Ozzie's managerial style, and not for the better.

Competent managers just quietly take care of business and their pitchers quietly do what they have to do.

This was one of Ozzie's biggest weaknesses as a manager. Ozzie used to shoot off his mouth in the media all the time, drawing the scrutiny of the umpires to his pitchers. Opposing managers knew Ozzie was all talk and they could throw inside to the Sox all day and not worry about hitting them because Ozzie would not have his team respond.

And whenever another player took a cheap shot on a Sox player (Barrett, Tori, Young, etc.) Ozzie would either publicly comment that he had no problem with it or even more, complement the opposing player for "Playing the game the right way."

Milw
04-15-2012, 11:52 AM
If the league ever found out that a manager actually instructed a pitcher to plunk someone the suspension would be measured in weeks. It's the kind of thing that is done with a wink/nod or a pre-understanding, not something that is actually said at least not in any kind of open way.

Garland used to plunk guys when he'd get pissed. Couple times I saw him smirk afterwards. Got to a point I could feel it coming.

I wouldn't mind if our pitchers got more aggressive backing guys off, but like anything you can't overuse it.
You can tell a pitcher to pitch inside without telling him to bean someone. Whether or not it's implied can be open to argument, but a manager saying, "I want you to pitch inside to this guy," is not grounds for a suspension. It's just not.

TaylorStSox
04-15-2012, 11:56 AM
It was pretty obvious that Gavin hit Young because of the previous AB, where Young leaned into the pitch. The next batter GIDP and some of the players were laughing when they came off the field.

thomas35forever
04-15-2012, 01:05 PM
Yeah, that was in like 2008. And after that incident, the Sox almost never threw inside for the rest of Ozzie's tenure. I don't know if he was upset with the flak he took publicly or if he just didn't care anymore, but that was a turning point in Ozzie's managerial style, and not for the better.
It was in 2006. Sean Tracey had a job to do in Texas and he didn't, so Ozzie went off on him and he never pitched in the Majors again. Come to think of it, it was not long after that the Sox went into the rut they've been in for some time save for the division title in '08.

Brian26
04-15-2012, 02:10 PM
Yeah, that was in like 2008. And after that incident, the Sox almost never threw inside for the rest of Ozzie's tenure. I don't know if he was upset with the flak he took publicly or if he just didn't care anymore, but that was a turning point in Ozzie's managerial style, and not for the better.

Actually it was in 2006 in Texas. Sean Tracy was on the mound. Padilla had beaned AJ early.

TheVulture
04-15-2012, 02:42 PM
The Ozzie lynch mob is absolutely out of their minds. Yeah, I am sure Ozzie instructed his pitchers to not pitch inside the whole time he was here.:rolleyes:

Did you even pay attention last year? I can't believe there's a Sox fan alive could defend him after that debacle, and I'm not talking about his mouth.

Boondock Saint
04-15-2012, 03:03 PM
Actually it was in 2006 in Texas. Sean Tracy was on the mound. Padilla had beaned AJ early.

Shocker.

happydude
04-15-2012, 03:03 PM
Competent managers just quietly take care of business and their pitchers quietly do what they have to do.

This was one of Ozzie's biggest weaknesses as a manager. Ozzie used to shoot off his mouth in the media all the time, drawing the scrutiny of the umpires to his pitchers. Opposing managers knew Ozzie was all talk and they could throw inside to the Sox all day and not worry about hitting them because Ozzie would not have his team respond.

And whenever another player took a cheap shot on a Sox player (Barrett, Tori, Young, etc.) Ozzie would either publicly comment that he had no problem with it or even more, complement the opposing player for "Playing the game the right way."

A-men.

ChiSoxGirl
04-15-2012, 09:14 PM
Competent managers just quietly take care of business and their pitchers quietly do what they have to do.

This was one of Ozzie's biggest weaknesses as a manager. Ozzie used to shoot off his mouth in the media all the time, drawing the scrutiny of the umpires to his pitchers. Opposing managers knew Ozzie was all talk and they could throw inside to the Sox all day and not worry about hitting them because Ozzie would not have his team respond.

And whenever another player took a cheap shot on a Sox player (Barrett, Tori, Young, etc.) Ozzie would either publicly comment that he had no problem with it or even more, complement the opposing player for "Playing the game the right way."

Preach. Spot on. Outstanding post. :thumbsup:

russ99
04-15-2012, 09:22 PM
Competent managers just quietly take care of business and their pitchers quietly do what they have to do.

This was one of Ozzie's biggest weaknesses as a manager. Ozzie used to shoot off his mouth in the media all the time, drawing the scrutiny of the umpires to his pitchers. Opposing managers knew Ozzie was all talk and they could throw inside to the Sox all day and not worry about hitting them because Ozzie would not have his team respond.

And whenever another player took a cheap shot on a Sox player (Barrett, Tori, Young, etc.) Ozzie would either publicly comment that he had no problem with it or even more, complement the opposing player for "Playing the game the right way."

Personally I prefer a player called out publicly for such things than this cheezeball macho/jock BS of "an eye for an eye."

Play the damn game, there's no need for such garbage. It's a professional sport, not high school.

Daver
04-15-2012, 09:49 PM
Competent managers just quietly take care of business and their pitchers quietly do what they have to do.

This was one of Ozzie's biggest weaknesses as a manager. Ozzie used to shoot off his mouth in the media all the time, drawing the scrutiny of the umpires to his pitchers. Opposing managers knew Ozzie was all talk and they could throw inside to the Sox all day and not worry about hitting them because Ozzie would not have his team respond.

And whenever another player took a cheap shot on a Sox player (Barrett, Tori, Young, etc.) Ozzie would either publicly comment that he had no problem with it or even more, complement the opposing player for "Playing the game the right way."

A good catcher takes this decision away from the manager, he should know what needs to be done without any help.

Foulke You
04-16-2012, 02:31 AM
Actually it was in 2006 in Texas. Sean Tracy was on the mound. Padilla had beaned AJ early.
Yep, that was the game. As I recall, AJ got plunked twice by Padilla. Tracy had a job to do and he didn't do it. Ozzie did get upset then. However, he was a different manager in 2006 then he was in 2011. What upset me most last year was that our team captain Paul Konerko got hit countless times last season and once landed on the DL because of it and there STILL was no retaliation from Sox pitchers. I liked what Gavin did with Delmon Young. This team needs to get a chip on its shoulder again and if anyone had it coming, it was Delmon Young.

Dibbs
04-16-2012, 07:06 AM
Competent managers just quietly take care of business and their pitchers quietly do what they have to do.

This was one of Ozzie's biggest weaknesses as a manager. Ozzie used to shoot off his mouth in the media all the time, drawing the scrutiny of the umpires to his pitchers. Opposing managers knew Ozzie was all talk and they could throw inside to the Sox all day and not worry about hitting them because Ozzie would not have his team respond.

And whenever another player took a cheap shot on a Sox player (Barrett, Tori, Young, etc.) Ozzie would either publicly comment that he had no problem with it or even more, complement the opposing player for "Playing the game the right way."

Beautifully said. If that HBP graph is accurate, it makes me dislike Ozzie even more. I'm so glad that idiot is gone. I just wish it was sooner.