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View Full Version : *Official* Nothing to see here, Easter Sunday Rangers 5 Sox Zip Postgamer


Frater Perdurabo
04-08-2012, 09:58 PM
Meh

soltrain21
04-08-2012, 09:58 PM
Fukudome's hit in the ninth is my favorite type of hit in baseball.

Boondock Saint
04-08-2012, 09:59 PM
Don't score, don't win.

GoGoCrede
04-08-2012, 09:59 PM
Poor Gavin. Not his night. And that's a damn good Texas lineup.

TomParrish79
04-08-2012, 10:02 PM
We'll be fine just gotta get the kinks worked out

KnightSox
04-08-2012, 10:02 PM
I expect better base running from Beckham.

TheFrisbee
04-08-2012, 10:04 PM
Quite the sleeper of a game, but it was good to see Jones get his debut and regain some form after the jitters. I really like this young bullpen, tons of potential. Hopefully they can pitch in situations to hold the lead more this year.

guillensdisciple
04-08-2012, 10:05 PM
Eh, we did our best this series. The first game could have gone either way so I am not overly concerned there. The second game we did well, and this game they just killed us.

It happens, I am excited to see if we can defeat teams like the Indians and the Royals. Everyone else in the higher tiers will be a struggle.

RKMeibalane
04-08-2012, 10:05 PM
I'm actually not that upset with this result. The Sox took one of three from the best team in the American League, at their place. The Cartoon Racists will be less of a challenge.

LoveYourSuit
04-08-2012, 10:05 PM
Not liking anything I see from the offense so far.

doublem23
04-08-2012, 10:05 PM
Overall about what I was hoping for considering we opened the season in Texas. Really, considering they were maybe 1-2 plays away from taking the game Friday and winning 2 of 3, overall pretty pleased with the effort.

Pitching match-ups in Cleveland are Sale vs. Josh Tomlin tomorrow, Humber vs. Justin Masterson Tuesday, and Danks vs. Jeanmar Gomez Wednesday.

Nobody on the Sox roster has ever seen Tomlin, the numbers aren't encouraging vs. Gomez (http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/batter_vs_pitcher.cgi?pitcher=gomezje01#gotresults&pitcher=gomezje01&min_year_game=2010&max_year_game=2011&post=1&opp_id=CHW&bats=any&opponent_status=&c1criteria=&c1gtlt=eq&c1val=0&c2criteria=&c2gtlt=eq&c2val=0&orderby=PA&orderby_dir=desc&orderby_second=Name&orderby_dir_second=asc&ajax=1&submitter=1) in limited action, and are mixed against Masterson (http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/batter_vs_pitcher.cgi?pitcher=masteju01#gotresults&pitcher=masteju01&min_year_game=2008&max_year_game=2012&post=1&opp_id=CHW&bats=any&opponent_status=&c1criteria=&c1gtlt=eq&c1val=0&c2criteria=&c2gtlt=eq&c2val=0&orderby=PA&orderby_dir=desc&orderby_second=Name&orderby_dir_second=asc&ajax=1&submitter=1)...

Hoping to be 3-3 for the Home Opener. #fingerscrossed

Frater Perdurabo
04-08-2012, 10:08 PM
Positives:

Allowing only 11 runs over three games to such a fearsome lineup in their own park has to be considered at least a moral victory.

The bullpen looks promising.

Defense looks sufficient; even Viciedo wasn't as terrible as we had feared.

Negatives:

We're in for a long year at the plate.

RKMeibalane
04-08-2012, 10:11 PM
Negatives:

We're in for a long year at the plate.

Agreed. I'm not worried about Konerko, and I think Dunn and Rios will bounce back. Viciedo should provide power, as well. The rest of the lineup, however, is filled with players who make Royce Clayton look like Frank Thomas.

Aesero
04-08-2012, 10:11 PM
Nice catch by Rios in right, Jones striking out Hamilton, and Dunn advancing a runner on second base. Those were the only pleasant things to see.

Rest of the game was just constant highlights of Ranger home runs :(:

thomas35forever
04-08-2012, 10:11 PM
Guess I'm glad I didn't remember to start Gavin in fantasy tonight, so I've got that going for me at least.

Lip Man 1
04-08-2012, 10:15 PM
At least they didn't get swept which is nice.

As others have said the offense looks like it's going to be a repeat of last season. (It takes a while to get the Walkerball mentality out of their heads if that's even possible...it might not change until they bring in new guys.)

On to Cleveland where hopefully they can win the series against a mediocre at best club (assuming they can actually hit some pitchers they haven't seen before...)

Lip

doublem23
04-08-2012, 10:21 PM
Guess I'm glad I didn't remember to start Gavin in fantasy tonight, so I've got that going for me at least.

I would have hoped you'd have not start him anyways, unless you were desperate for a K or two and had an insurmountable ERA and WHIP lead.

Boondock Saint
04-08-2012, 10:22 PM
At least they didn't get swept which is nice.

As others have said the offense looks like it's going to be a repeat of last season. (It takes a while to get the Walkerball mentality out of their heads if that's even possible...it might not change until they bring in new guys.)

On to Cleveland where hopefully they can win the series against a mediocre at best club (assuming they can actually hit some pitchers they haven't seen before...)

Lip

I would guess that one win was about the most anybody expected from this series, so yeah, it's nice to actually have the one win. I just wish we had done better offensively overall.

amsteel
04-08-2012, 10:24 PM
Good enought starting pitching, very good relief pitching, and woefully inept situational offense? I'm All In.

thomas35forever
04-08-2012, 10:24 PM
Good enought starting pitching, very good relief pitching, and woefully inept situational offense? I'm All In.
So 2011.

DSpivack
04-08-2012, 10:30 PM
Good enought starting pitching, very good relief pitching, and woefully inept situational offense? I'm All In.

Yay, we're the Padres! :bandance:

shingo10
04-08-2012, 10:42 PM
The ESPN broadcast was atrocious on every level. They spent the first 4 innings talking about everything Texas and spent a good 10 minutes on Darvish who had nothing to do with the game.

The baserunning blunder by Beckham was not pleasant to see. We can't afford to give away opportunities to score.

That being said is there really anything to take from the opening series? I mean last year it looked like our offense was going to be unstoppable. So I'm gonna hold my judgement (or try to) until the end of the month.

KMcMahon817
04-08-2012, 10:45 PM
I expect better base running from Beckham.

While I agree that Gordo getting nailed in a rundown could have been avoided, Beckham wouldn't have even been in that position had it not been for a great piece of base running. Those tough breaks just happen some times.

Surviving a trip to the two-time defending pennant champions to open the season is a plus for me. Go get two of three from the Tribe.

Gavin was decent tonight, he just got burned a couple times by top of the line power hitters. The offense obviously could use a big hit, and I see those comin' in Cleveland.

I like Robin mixing things up a bit with the line-up. I expect to see Fukudome in the line-up tomorrow, and Morel back in there at 3B. I am pumped to see Sale's first MLB start tomorrow. I really think we got ourselves an ace in the making.

Great to have baseball back.

johnnyg83
04-08-2012, 10:47 PM
The rangers are good. 2out of three on the road to the 2x defending AL champs is great. 11 runs vs that lineup is exceptional.

TheVulture
04-08-2012, 10:50 PM
Is it just me, or is Fukodome the only Sox batter who looks like he has a clue at the plate?

Foulke You
04-08-2012, 11:04 PM
The ESPN broadcast was atrocious on every level. They spent the first 4 innings talking about everything Texas and spent a good 10 minutes on Darvish who had nothing to do with the game.

The baserunning blunder by Beckham was not pleasant to see. We can't afford to give away opportunities to score.

That being said is there really anything to take from the opening series? I mean last year it looked like our offense was going to be unstoppable. So I'm gonna hold my judgement (or try to) until the end of the month.

Hated the broadcast tonight as well. It felt like a Rangers broadcast most of the night. The Josh Hamilton love was getting out of hand. "I'm so glad that Josh has his smile back.". Yep, I about puked up my Easter dinner. At the very least, it was a marginal improvement over Joe Morgan.

Agree on your last point. We haven't learned anything yet. Offense looked like a bulldozer after the first week last season and we know what happened to our offense in 2011. Lots of stranded runners in the first series feels and looks very familiar but for all the talk of the Ranger offense we also faced some good pitching this weekend. Let's see what happens against an average Tribe team.

doublem23
04-08-2012, 11:10 PM
Hated the broadcast tonight as well. It felt like a Rangers broadcast most of the night. The Josh Hamilton love was getting out of hand. "I'm so glad that Josh has his smile back.". Yep, I about puked up my Easter dinner. At the very least, it was a marginal improvement over Joe Morgan.

Agree on your last point. We haven't learned anything yet. Offense looked like a bulldozer after the first week last season and we know what happened to our offense in 2011. Lots of stranded runners in the first series feels and looks very familiar but for all the talk of the Ranger offense we also faced some good pitching this weekend. Let's see what happens against an average Tribe team.

Its to be expected when you're playing the two-time defending league champs and you're coming off a rather dull .500ish season.

The Rangers are a big story in baseball right now. The Sox are kind of meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

LoveYourSuit
04-08-2012, 11:20 PM
I would have hoped you'd have not start him anyways, unless you were desperate for a K or two and had an insurmountable ERA and WHIP lead.

It's crazy to think Gavin won 17 games for us in 2008.

We might have seen the best of him already.

doublem23
04-08-2012, 11:27 PM
It's crazy to think Gavin won 17 games for us in 2008.

We might have seen the best of him already.

Possible but he's still overall an effective starter, and at $7 M this year and a $9.5 M team option next year, he's not breaking the bank.

Honestly unless the Sox really surprise a lot of people and hang around the hunt, I doubt he will be here when the season ends.

Foulke You
04-08-2012, 11:29 PM
Its to be expected when you're playing the two-time defending league champs and you're coming off a rather dull .500ish season.

The Rangers are a big story in baseball right now. The Sox are kind of meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

I have no issues with the Rangers getting more attention but a national broadcasted game should at least attempt to provide background on both teams that are playing. This was a Ranger broadcast from start to finish. Almost no attempt was made to discuss any Sox storylines from Spring Training, the history behind some of our players, etc. It felt lazy. Heck, I'm willing to bet the Rangers crew did a better job on Friday and Saturday talking about the Sox than the ESPN crew did.

On a side note, I hate 3 man crews as well. Very unnecessary.

cheezheadsoxfan
04-08-2012, 11:37 PM
I have no issues with the Rangers getting more attention but a national broadcasted game should at least attempt to provide background on both teams that are playing. This was a Ranger broadcast from start to finish. Almost no attempt was made to discuss any Sox storylines from Spring Training, the history behind some of our players, etc. It felt lazy. Heck, I'm willing to bet the Rangers crew did a better job on Friday and Saturday talking about the Sox than the ESPN crew did.

On a side note, I hate 3 man crews as well. Very unnecessary.

I'm with you. I know a lot of people are happy for a Hawk-less broadcast but tonight drove me nuts. I always wind up hitting the mute button and going to Farmer and DJ. There was a little love for Robin but then is segued into the Nolan Ryan fight (of course). As a poster in the game thread was saying, I'm really sick of the national media kissing his ass. Of course watching "Baseball Tonight" before the game was a mistake. Curt Schilling!!:gah:

palehozenychicty
04-08-2012, 11:45 PM
This Rangers team is arguably better than the last two pennant winners. I still can't believe that they gave Game 6 away. No shame in losing two to them in Arlington, with one game being very close.

Let's see what we can do against the Indjuns.

Noneck
04-08-2012, 11:48 PM
I have no issues with the Rangers getting more attention but a national broadcasted game should at least attempt to provide background on both teams that are playing.

If the Sox showed a spark of life they would have been forced to but that never happened.

DrCrawdad
04-08-2012, 11:55 PM
Possible but he's still overall an effective starter, and at $7 M this year and a $9.5 M team option next year, he's not breaking the bank.

Honestly unless the Sox really surprise a lot of people and hang around the hunt, I doubt he will be here when the season ends.

I'm not quitting on the Sox, I'll always be rooting for them but Detroit - unless something upsets them - it's Detroit's division to lose.

And I think you're right, Gavin long with several others are only here temporarily.

Nellie_Fox
04-09-2012, 12:00 AM
...It takes a while to get the Walkerball mentality out of their heads if that's even possible...I was waiting for this. How long will Walker be assigned the blame?

doublem23
04-09-2012, 12:15 AM
I was waiting for this. How long will Walker be assigned the blame?

Until we start hitting, of course. :cool:

Nellie_Fox
04-09-2012, 12:16 AM
Until we start hitting, of course. :cool:That could be a while. :tongue:

doublem23
04-09-2012, 12:45 AM
I'm not quitting on the Sox, I'll always be rooting for them but Detroit - unless something upsets them - it's Detroit's division to lose.

And I think you're right, Gavin long with several others are only here temporarily.

Oh, I agree. IMO, this series was very encouraging. Yeah, the offense looked a little punchless, but the pitching was great. Holding this Rangers team to 11 runs in 3 games is no small feat. Reed, Santiago, and Jones all got in some nice work.

The Tigers obviously made the big splash this weekend, sweeping Boston and looking damn near invincible doing it, but still some lingering questions about their defense, and some legitimate questions about their pitching depth, especially if Fister is lost for any amount of time.

At the very least, I just want them to be enjoyable to watch. Last season was awful in every way. One weekend down, and I'm feeling pretty good. :D:

TommyGavinFloyd
04-09-2012, 01:09 AM
I'm with you. I know a lot of people are happy for a Hawk-less broadcast but tonight drove me nuts. I always wind up hitting the mute button and going to Farmer and DJ. There was a little love for Robin but then is segued into the Nolan Ryan fight (of course). As a poster in the game thread was saying, I'm really sick of the national media kissing his ass. Of course watching "Baseball Tonight" before the game was a mistake. Curt Schilling!!:gah:

My friend and I went in on MLB.TV for the 4th straight year and I get why Hawk can irritate some people, but good god, almost every other broadcast I watch is just boring. I can't imagine any of these people announcing for the Sox, not without me getting a pillow and nightcap. And the ESPN team is worse than all of them. I tried syncing with 670 but my satellite was a few seconds behind so I sat through their crap all night. Not to mention their "Bottom Line" running all night, reminding me that the Bulls lost.

As for the game, what can be said, our offense leaves a lot to be desired. The only guy I actually get excited to see hit is Paulie. Everyone else, I might as well be watching Jersey Shore with my feet on hot coles.

SoxSpeed22
04-09-2012, 01:20 AM
Maybe it's possible that Harrison actually pitched well. We didn't help him out that much, except for Beckham's baserunning blunder. They still need a ton of work hitting the ball the other way. The new guys in the pen was a bright spot in this series.

gobears1987
04-09-2012, 03:22 AM
Who do we blame now that Walker isn't around?

Our bullpen looks quite formidable at least.

Our starting pitching should be fine if everyone is healthy.

Our line-up is going to kill us this year.

doublem23
04-09-2012, 03:30 AM
Who do we blame now that Walker isn't around?

Well I can see this is going to be every bit as annoying as the people who will relentlessly blame the Sox poor offense on Walkerball.

At any rate, Greg Walker was the White Sox's hitting coach for over 1,400 games. Surely, only the most psychotic and harebrained of lunatics would actually think that by Game 3 of the post-Walker era, his influence on the team would be completely erased.

TomBradley72
04-09-2012, 07:36 AM
At least they didn't get swept which is nice.

As others have said the offense looks like it's going to be a repeat of last season. (It takes a while to get the Walkerball mentality out of their heads if that's even possible...it might not change until they bring in new guys.)

On to Cleveland where hopefully they can win the series against a mediocre at best club (assuming they can actually hit some pitchers they haven't seen before...)

Lip

So even though he is now the hitting coach for the Atlanta Braves- it's STILL Walker's fault?

KW has built a roster of free swingers- many who are also mediocre overall hitters- does anyone really believe it's the FORMER hitting coaches fault?

The fact that Walker was immediately hired by another MLB team- says alot about Walker as well as WSI posters ability to assess major league coaches.

TomBradley72
04-09-2012, 07:45 AM
Well I can see this is going to be every bit as annoying as the people who will relentlessly blame the Sox poor offense on Walkerball.

At any rate, Greg Walker was the White Sox's hitting coach for over 1,400 games. Surely, only the most psychotic and harebrained of lunatics would actually think that by Game 3 of the post-Walker era, his influence on the team would be completely erased.

This is getting pretty ridiculous- based on that logic- long tenured players like Konerko, Alexei, AJ should be complete basket cases and almost out of baseball due to the Walker regime. Only a psychotic lunatic would blame the former coach who hasn't worked with the hitters since September of 2011 for their performance in 2012.

You can bring Charlie Lau back to life- and he's not going to turn Beckham/Morel/Flowers/De Aza, etc into great hitters-

veeter
04-09-2012, 08:14 AM
Pitching and infield defense is the strength of this team, IMO. Other than Escobar's gaffe, I think that held true. Rios is playing with life which is a great sign. I'm satisfied with the series. I need to see the offense for more than three games to make a judgment. It's also nice to see Robin in the dugout instead of that joke in Miami.

doublem23
04-09-2012, 08:24 AM
This is getting pretty ridiculous- based on that logic- long tenured players like Konerko, Alexei, AJ should be complete basket cases and almost out of baseball due to the Walker regime. Only a psychotic lunatic would blame the former coach who hasn't worked with the hitters since September of 2011 for their performance in 2012.

You can bring Charlie Lau back to life- and he's not going to turn Beckham/Morel/Flowers/De Aza, etc into great hitters-

Ha ha, I love it that you actually think guys can just magically reset their brains and erase coaching they have recieved for years. Some ballplayers still cite their high school coaches for some of their fundamentals and here, since Walker finally shown the door in September, suddenly everything he worked on with these guys is forgotten in a flash. That's adorably priceless.

It's more likely that certain hitters jut have better repertoire with certain coaches. These are, after all, humans. They're not robots with standard fixes, swapable parts, or how-to manuals. Sox fans, more than anyone should know this, of course, as Walt Hrniak helped sculpt the Big Hurt into probably the greatest right-handed hitter in the history of baseball, and yet he was despised by almost every other player he came across.

Finally, I'm not sure if AJ, Alexei, or even Konerko really help your point. Alexei or AJ are nothing special at the plate, Alexei especially whose never come close to replicating his phenomenal rookie season. And even Konerko spent most of his tutelage under Walker as a below average offensive first baseman. OK, he finally picked things up in 2010, after seven seasons working with Walker. Not exactly a sterling endorsement of his services if it means we'd have to wait until 2015 and 2016 for Beckham and Morel to get their heads screwed on straight respectively.

More likely the Sox have a ****load of bad hitters and Greg Walker was a ****ty hitting coach. I don't understand why this is such a controversial point.

gobears1987
04-09-2012, 08:24 AM
Well I can see this is going to be every bit as annoying as the people who will relentlessly blame the Sox poor offense on Walkerball.

At any rate, Greg Walker was the White Sox's hitting coach for over 1,400 games. Surely, only the most psychotic and harebrained of lunatics would actually think that by Game 3 of the post-Walker era, his influence on the team would be completely erased.
Did you ever stop to think that just maybe Beckham, Rios, Morel, etc. are just bad hitters?

Walker made a great scapegoat for the WSI lynch mob though.

doublem23
04-09-2012, 08:35 AM
Did you ever stop to think that just maybe Beckham, Rios, Morel, etc. are just bad hitters?

Walker made a great scapegoat for the WSI lynch mob though.

Yes, because that's what happens in sports. You can't replace all 25 players overnight, but you can make a coaching change. Nobody ever suggested that the Sox offense would magically return if they got rid of Walker, but the offense had been awful for years. Why the hell wouldn't you want to maybe try something different? Clearly this collection of bad hitters requires a great hitting coach. Maybe Walker is just a good coach. So, let's see what the new guy can do.

And still, the root of this discussion is the asinine comments that whatever Walker's been preaching for 8 years has all been completely forgotten in a matter of months. Look, if you like the guy and think he was super awesome, that's fine, but don't be silly.

russ99
04-09-2012, 08:41 AM
Only 3 road games against the AL champs. No need to assume anything about the team yet.

But if the hitting doesn't pick up at home, we may have a problem.

SI1020
04-09-2012, 08:44 AM
My friend and I went in on MLB.TV for the 4th straight year and I get why Hawk can irritate some people, but good god, almost every other broadcast I watch is just boring. I would add banal to the description. Give me Hawk, with all his flaws over the vast majority of his competitors.

ChiSoxGal85
04-09-2012, 08:51 AM
Oh, I agree. IMO, this series was very encouraging. Yeah, the offense looked a little punchless, but the pitching was great. Holding this Rangers team to 11 runs in 3 games is no small feat. Reed, Santiago, and Jones all got in some nice work.

The Tigers obviously made the big splash this weekend, sweeping Boston and looking damn near invincible doing it, but still some lingering questions about their defense, and some legitimate questions about their pitching depth, especially if Fister is lost for any amount of time.

At the very least, I just want them to be enjoyable to watch. Last season was awful in every way. One weekend down, and I'm feeling pretty good. :D:

I am also encouraged. Yesterday's game was very 2011-like, but the first two games the Sox battled and did pretty well against the defending AL champs.

I hope the Sox aren't the first team to hand the Tigers a loss...not because that wouldn't be cool, but because I'd hate to think of the Tigers being 6-0 or 7-0 or whatever it would be before then. Go Rays. :smile:

hawkjt
04-09-2012, 09:37 AM
I heard Stone on the Score this morning and he pointed out that under Walker the Sox were the third toughest team to strike out in the league last year, so the rash of strikeouts this weekend are hard to blame on Walker.

I think it is simply the cruel fact that the Sox just have not had enough high-average,good hitters for the last 5 years. Still don't.
If Gordon,Morel,Rios,Dayan and Alexei would hit over .275, we would be ok,but they have not shown they can do that on a consistent basis...no matter who is coaching them.

But,hope springs eternal,so maybe this year?

doublem23
04-09-2012, 09:44 AM
I heard Stone on the Score this morning and he pointed out that under Walker the Sox were the third toughest team to strike out in the league last year, so the rash of strikeouts this weekend are hard to blame on Walker.

I think it is simply the cruel fact that the Sox just have not had enough high-average,good hitters for the last 5 years. Still don't.
If Gordon,Morel,Rios,Dayan and Alexei would hit over .275, we would be ok,but they have not shown they can do that on a consistent basis...no matter who is coaching them.

But,hope springs eternal,so maybe this year?

It's also three games. Anybody making sweeping generalizations about a baseball team based on three games is doomed to look like a fool. For instance, I doubt the Red Sox and Yankees will finish this season a combined 0-324, although we can hope. :cool:

Harry Chappas
04-09-2012, 10:15 AM
This is getting pretty ridiculous- based on that logic- long tenured players like Konerko, Alexei, AJ should be complete basket cases and almost out of baseball due to the Walker regime. Only a psychotic lunatic would blame the former coach who hasn't worked with the hitters since September of 2011 for their performance in 2012.

You can bring Charlie Lau back to life- and he's not going to turn Beckham/Morel/Flowers/De Aza, etc into great hitters-

I've got to agree with you. As much as I was pleased to see Walker go, our hitting isn't good because, well, we don't have very good hitters. Outside of Konerko, Alexei, and maybe A.J., we don't have many "tough outs" in the lineup. Rios has shown flashes but is wildly inconsistent and Dunn has never hit for a high average.

palehozenychicty
04-09-2012, 10:31 AM
I've got to agree with you. As much as I was pleased to see Walker go, our hitting isn't good because, well, we don't have very good hitters. Outside of Konerko, Alexei, and maybe A.J., we don't have many "tough outs" in the lineup. Rios has shown flashes but is wildly inconsistent and Dunn has never hit for a high average.

AJ is a scrappy hitter, but he offers little at the plate in terms of power or slugging or OBP.

The starting lineup definitely is our weak link.

TomBradley72
04-09-2012, 10:43 AM
More likely the Sox have a ****load of bad hitters and Greg Walker was a ****ty hitting coach. I don't understand why this is such a controversial point.

On this point- we agree- I probably put Walker in the same category as Ozzie- not necessarily "****ty"- but their time had clearly run its course.

My main point is the "****load of bad hitters" is the main driver of their results- I expect them to overall- continue to be ****ty- and I don't think the new coach is going to change that.

russ99
04-09-2012, 11:02 AM
On this point- we agree- I probably put Walker in the same category as Ozzie- not necessarily "****ty"- but their time had clearly run its course.

My main point is the "****load of bad hitters" is the main driver of their results- I expect them to overall- continue to be ****ty- and I don't think the new coach is going to change that.

The Rangers with their stacked lineup are the exception around the league, not the rule.

We don't have a $150M payroll, so there are going to be lesser hitters down the order, just like most big league teams not named the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Rangers and Angels.

Also, if our 1-5 hitters produce, especially with RISP, we'll win games.

Lip Man 1
04-09-2012, 11:38 AM
My term "walkerball" is a broad general comment on a lot of things including the fact that the Sox have a number of free swinging undisciplined hitters.

It is not automatically an indictment personally of Walker... however as others have said his teachings and influence on hitters is not "automatically" gone in six weeks of spring training and three games with another coach. It's also true that the Sox simply don't have a lot of good hitters and that falls on the people responsible for getting them or drafting them.

Hopefully that clears things up with some Waker stalwarts.

Thinking over some more the Texas series I recall the comment along the lines of (paraphrasing) 'well Texas' pitching staff is pretty good,' and that's true however also remember The Ballpark at Arlington is a hitters park.. I think the Sox pitching staff is 'pretty good' too yet Texas got 11 runs in the series. The Sox got six and it's not like they didn't have chances, they were 2-for-19 with runners in scoring position.

We'll get a little better feel for things with Cleveland, their pitching doesn't scare folks.

Lip

BigKlu59
04-09-2012, 11:53 AM
My term "walkerball" is a broad general comment on a lot of things including the fact that the Sox have a number of free swinging undisciplined hitters.

It is not automatically an indictment personally of Walker... however as others have said his teachings and influence on hitters is not "automatically" gone in six weeks of spring training and three games with another coach. It's also true that the Sox simply don't have a lot of good hitters and that falls on the people responsible for getting them or drafting them.

Hopefully that clears things up with some Waker stalwarts.

Thinking over some more the Texas series I recall the comment along the lines of (paraphrasing) 'well Texas' pitching staff is pretty good,' and that's true however also remember The Ballpark at Arlington is a hitters park.. I think the Sox pitching staff is 'pretty good' too yet Texas got 11 runs in the series. The Sox got six and it's not like they didn't have chances, they were 2-for-19 with runners in scoring position.

We'll get a little better feel for things with Cleveland, their pitching doesn't scare folks.

Lip

The dreaded RISP conundrum which constantly bites them in the ass. That was the difference in this series. Its not as though the Rangers pitchers mowed down 27 hitters a game...


BK59

doublem23
04-09-2012, 12:03 PM
The dreaded RISP conundrum which constantly bites them in the ass. That was the difference in this series. Its not as though the Rangers pitchers mowed down 27 hitters a game...


BK59

The Sox still only hit .192 for the series.

JB98
04-09-2012, 12:35 PM
My expectations for this season are so low that I can't be disappointed with a 1-2 start against the defending American League champions. The White Sox were overmatched by a superior team last night. Cleveland is a little more at the Sox level, so hopefully the Sox can win a couple in the next series.

IMO, the Sox are going to struggle offensively this year. I'm sure some here will use that as an excuse to defend Walker. Well, take a look at what good ol' Walk's new team is doing. The Braves got shut out their first game, scored only two runs their second game and were no-hit for the first six innings of their third game before scoring some fools gold runs after the horse left the barn.

No, Greg Walker is not missed. Ozzie Guillen certainly is not missed. Even if the Sox lose 95 games this year, Walker and Guillen will still not be missed. I have no idea whether the new manager and new hitting coach will do a good job, but change was overdue in both cases.

kufram
04-09-2012, 12:52 PM
Another conversation/argument about Walker and Ozzie. Snooze.

Harry Chappas
04-09-2012, 02:00 PM
The Rangers with their stacked lineup are the exception around the league, not the rule.

We don't have a $150M payroll, so there are going to be lesser hitters down the order, just like most big league teams not named the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Rangers and Angels.

Also, if our 1-5 hitters produce, especially with RISP, we'll win games.

This is at least partly true, but where the Sox differ from those teams with lesser payrolls that can still compete with the likes of the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, etc., is that our "lesser hitters" don't hit at a .260 clip, which is roughly average in the AL, at least last year. Beckham, Dunn, Rios, Flowers, Morel, and Viciedo (in limited duty) all were below average relative to the league.

The Sox were second-to-last in the AL last year in OPS and the biggest difference this year is that we traded away Quentin who was 2nd on the Sox in that category. We can hope that Viciedo fills that void, but that's a lot to ask of a guy playing his first, full, major league season.

It's a shame really, because I think our starting rotation (if Peavy stays healthy) and bullpen are good enough to keep us in games. I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot of quality starts go by the wayside.

pudge
04-09-2012, 02:33 PM
Oh, I agree. IMO, this series was very encouraging. Yeah, the offense looked a little punchless, but the pitching was great. Holding this Rangers team to 11 runs in 3 games is no small feat. Reed, Santiago, and Jones all got in some nice work.

The Tigers obviously made the big splash this weekend, sweeping Boston and looking damn near invincible doing it, but still some lingering questions about their defense, and some legitimate questions about their pitching depth, especially if Fister is lost for any amount of time.

At the very least, I just want them to be enjoyable to watch. Last season was awful in every way. One weekend down, and I'm feeling pretty good. :D:

Wish I could share this attitude - yes, if we really do have good pitching, we'll be in the hunt for a WC would be nice, but the situational hitting is so bad. The strikeouts even worse. And those two things make watching a team unbearable for me. I came out of this series thinking this is going to be a difficult team to watch.

Nellie_Fox
04-09-2012, 04:03 PM
Hopefully that clears things up with some Waker stalwarts.I don't consider myself a "Walker stalwart," I just think that the amount of blame that was heaped on him was ridiculous. A change to a different perspective probably won't hurt, might help. It was just so many people on here thought they knew what Walker was teaching them, like he really wanted them swinging wildly at low and away sliders.

Tragg
04-09-2012, 04:19 PM
In consideration of Ventura's desire to give everyone some playing time, I wonder if we might see more righties in the lineup against lefty pitchers. Against a lefty, might we sit Dunn, put Viciedo at DH and let Fukodome or Lilli play left. Done showed a nice eye on Sat night, but the Rangers weren't going to make those mistakes again.

Noneck
04-09-2012, 04:34 PM
In consideration of Ventura's desire to give everyone some playing time, I wonder if we might see more righties in the lineup against lefty pitchers. Against a lefty, might we sit Dunn, put Viciedo at DH and let Fukodome or Lilli play left. Done showed a nice eye on Sat night, but the Rangers weren't going to make those mistakes again.

Dunns not going to be a platoon DH.

palehozenychicty
04-09-2012, 04:59 PM
The Rangers with their stacked lineup are the exception around the league, not the rule.

We don't have a $150M payroll, so there are going to be lesser hitters down the order, just like most big league teams not named the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Rangers and Angels.

Also, if our 1-5 hitters produce, especially with RISP, we'll win games.

The Rangers payroll is only $120 million. Last year, when going all in, the Sox had a payroll of $126 million. Right now, it's at $96 million. It's all in how it's distributed. The talent is simply not there, figures be damned.

Anyway, all of these guys could produce. We'll see.

SCCWS
04-09-2012, 05:22 PM
And even Konerko spent most of his tutelage under Walker as a below average offensive first baseman. OK, he finally picked things up in 2010, after seven seasons working with Walker. Not exactly a sterling endorsement of his services if it means we'd have to wait until 2015 and 2016 for Beckham and Morel to get their heads screwed on straight respectively.

.

Is that the same Konerko who hit 40 and 41 HR's in 2004/05 the first 2 years after Walker arrived???

Broccoli Rob
04-09-2012, 05:28 PM
Is that the same Konerko who hit 40 and 41 HR's in 2004/05 the first 2 years after Walker arrived???

Just think how many he could have hit without Walker interfering!!