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View Full Version : Would You Want to See the Cubs Leave Chicago?


BRDSR
04-07-2012, 12:57 AM
I was trying to explain the Cubs/Sox dynamic to a non-Chicagoan the other day, and he asked me if I would rather the White Sox were the only baseball team in Chicago. My gut reaction was was "Of course, I hate the Cubs."

But after the conversation I got to thinking, and I'm not so sure. Yes, I hate the Cubs, but I also sort of love to hate the Cubs. And I love Chicago, and like it or not, the Cubs are part of Chicago...no way around that.

I think I've decided that I don't want to see the Cubs leave Chicago, if that were ever a realistic possibility...I would want them to stay in Chicago and be terrible, just like they always have been.

Nellie_Fox
04-07-2012, 01:27 AM
The White Sox would become a true "big-market team" if they were the only team in town. It would be a huge advantage to be the only team in the biggest one-team market in the country. Not Yankees huge, but huge.

samurai_sox
04-07-2012, 03:33 AM
Nah, only cubs fans.

cub killer
04-07-2012, 04:12 AM
The White Sox would become a true "big-market team" if they were the only team in town. It would be a huge advantage to be the only team in the biggest one-team market in the country. Not Yankees huge, but huge.

Damn good point. If the flubs get deported from Chicago, I'm throwing a party and you all are invited.

Moses_Scurry
04-07-2012, 06:13 AM
I'd rather they fold.

LITTLE NELL
04-07-2012, 06:36 AM
One of the things that make Chicago unique is that the city has 2 teams, only NY, LA , the Bay area and Chicago can make that claim.
The Cubs can stay but I wish things were like the way they were in the 50s and 60s when Chicago was a Sox town and the Cubs were a joke.

Brian26
04-07-2012, 07:17 AM
One thing to consider, Sox tickets would become harder to find and more expensive.

cub killer
04-07-2012, 07:20 AM
One thing to consider, Sox tickets would become harder to find and more expensive.
Small price to pay for control of the city.

bridgeportcopper
04-07-2012, 07:46 AM
Absolutely, I'd love to see which way that idiotic, fair-weather fan-base would scramble. I think Wrigleyvillains would just go back to rooting for their team of their youth since most are transplants from Big Ten country. We'd see an uptick in Reds, Cardinals, Brewers, Tigers Twins & Indians fans I'm guessing.

Frater Perdurabo
04-07-2012, 07:59 AM
Yes, send them away.

DumpJerry
04-07-2012, 08:35 AM
But they're good for Chicago!

There is a school of thought that the 1919 team was so good that if it wasn't broken up by Landis, the Cubs would have had to leave town. Some speculate that team had the potential to have been one of the best ever.

Golden Sox
04-07-2012, 08:43 AM
I would miss the Cubs not being in Chicago about as much as Cub fans would miss the White Sox if the the White sox were not in Chicago.

ChicagoG19
04-07-2012, 10:47 AM
One of the things that make Chicago unique is that the city has 2 teams, only NY, LA , the Bay area and Chicago can make that claim.
The Cubs can stay but I wish things were like the way they were in the 50s and 60s when Chicago was a Sox town and the Cubs were a joke.

I would throw DC/Baltimore into the mix as well.

fram40
04-07-2012, 11:02 AM
But they're good for Chicago!

There is a school of thought that the 1919 team was so good that if it wasn't broken up by Landis, the Cubs would have had to leave town. Some speculate that team had the potential to have been one of the best ever.


Bill Gleason once said that the 1919 team was so good that even though they were trying to lose, it took them 8 games before they could lose five games.

Back on topic - I would hate to see Chicago become a one team town. So no - I don't want to see them leave.

kittle42
04-07-2012, 11:34 AM
One of the things that make Chicago unique is that the city has 2 teams, only NY, LA , the Bay area and Chicago can make that claim.

Well, that's not really unique, then.

soltrain21
04-07-2012, 11:37 AM
No. I like baseball.

SephClone89
04-07-2012, 11:42 AM
No. I like baseball.

Bingo.

DSpivack
04-07-2012, 11:55 AM
I would throw DC/Baltimore into the mix as well.

Baltimore and DC are not one city, nor are they one metropolitan area.

GoGoCrede
04-07-2012, 12:07 PM
It wouldn't make a whole lot of difference to me, since I don't pay attention to them outside of the Crosstown series. Although it would be nice not to have to get on the train with a bunch of screaming fans on their way to the game.

But if it would make Sox tickets pricier? Meh. I like being able to afford the games with how it is now.

SI1020
04-07-2012, 12:57 PM
Well, that's not really unique, then. If you want to be picky I guess. Only NY and Chicago have their two teams in the city, well within 10 miles of each other. It was a very unique treat as a kid to live in a city with two teams and I enjoyed that fact to the maximum. Why deny yourself the opportunity to see the stars in both leagues?

DumpJerry
04-07-2012, 02:07 PM
If they left, what would we do for comic relief?

central44
04-07-2012, 02:15 PM
I think if Wrigley Field went away, Cub fans would be much more tolerable. I'm pretty sure the park is the root of most of the annoying issues and wouldn't mind seeing them move somewhere else.

MarySwiss
04-07-2012, 02:48 PM
My first impulse was to say "yes, and good riddance." But in thinking it over, I kind of get a perverse pleasure in responding to people out here who automatically assume I'm a Cubs fan when they hear I'm from Chicago.

And then there're all those bets I've won off Cubs fans down through the years, and the comforting knowledge that however bad the Sox get, the Cubs will almost always be worse. :cool:

Hitmen77
04-07-2012, 03:16 PM
YES!

I would say good riddance.

gobears1987
04-07-2012, 03:23 PM
I wouldn't want them to leave. Watching them suck like their 5 run 8th today is a joy. I love watching them lose.

What would we do without the weekly Kerry Wood 2/3 inning 3 ER performance or weekly Marmol meltdown? Even though the Sox aren't a good team this year, seeing the Flubs do worse gives me comfort and makes me realize I should count my blessings.

gobears1987
04-07-2012, 03:27 PM
If they left, what would we do for comic relief?

Lovie Smith challenges?

thomas35forever
04-07-2012, 03:32 PM
Never thought about it, but I'd love to not have to compete for attention with another team in town.

LITTLE NELL
04-07-2012, 05:00 PM
If you want to be picky I guess. Only NY and Chicago have their two teams in the city, well within 10 miles of each other. It was a very unique treat as a kid to live in a city with two teams and I enjoyed that fact to the maximum. Why deny yourself the opportunity to see the stars in both leagues?

Well said.

LITTLE NELL
04-07-2012, 05:50 PM
Well, that's not really unique, then.

One of the definitions for ''unique'' in the Oxford dictionary is something that is remarkable, special or unusual. Chicago having 2 MLB teams fits that criteria.

TommyJohn
04-07-2012, 06:05 PM
Chicago and New York are the only two team towns in MLB. Anaheim is not Los Angeles no matter how hard Arte Moreno tries to make it so. And San Fran and Oakland are two different cities.

TommyJohn
04-07-2012, 06:09 PM
Many Cub fans would, I think, say yes to the White Sox leaving town and be incredibly ****ing obnoxious about it, so I have no problem saying yes to the Cubs being gone.

WSox597
04-08-2012, 07:23 AM
I usually try to ignore that team, but their many obnoxious fans make it difficult. You can only hear "It's gonna happen!" so many times before it becomes vomit-inducing.

I would not be unhappy to see them moved, although it is fun to watch them extend their record for futility.

I vote yes, Anchorage deserves a team.

cws05champ
04-08-2012, 08:29 AM
I would just be happy if we could guarantee that they were bad every year for the next 30 years....and Wrigley literally starts to crumble. Then they could stay in Chicago.

As somebody else stated I think a lot of the annoyance from "Cub fans" stems from the stadium and the neighborhood it's in. We see so many bandwagon/hanger ons in their fan base...and that more than anything else is really annoying. Trying to deal with people that really have no idea what is going on in baseball and yet they act like they have been fans all their lives.

Zisk77
04-08-2012, 08:29 AM
I usually try to ignore that team, but their many obnoxious fans make it difficult. You can only hear "It's gonna happen!" so many times before it becomes vomit-inducing.

I would not be unhappy to see them moved, although it is fun to watch them extend their record for futility.

I vote yes, Anchorage deserves a team.


Juneau, you may be right.:redface:

I'd help them pack. You can still take perverse joy in watching them lose in Las Vegas or wherever.

DumpJerry
04-08-2012, 08:57 AM
If they left, what would we do for comic relief?

Lovie Smith challenges?
Those of us who are Bears' fans do not see humor in Lovie's weaknesses. Those incidents raise our blood pressure.....

TomBradley72
04-08-2012, 09:03 AM
ABSOLUTELY NOT.

The Cubbies are a place for all of the non-baseball fans, tourists, transplants, frat boys/sorority girls to gravitate to- leaving my team for the more diehard fans, more down to earth Chicagoans (I realize I'm seriously stereotyping here!).

Without that alternative- they'll all show up at 35th & Veeck Drive-and they'll bring their Ronnie Woo Woo, throwing homers back, hyper emotional/self important bull**** with them.

Soxman219
04-08-2012, 09:08 AM
No, I love seeing different ways of the Cubs choking every year. Watching their delusional fans brag about their stadium when they are still losing brings a smile to my face. Can't live with them, can't live without them.

LongLiveFisk
04-08-2012, 10:30 AM
The Cubs can stay but I wish things were like the way they were in the 50s and 60s when Chicago was a Sox town and the Cubs were a joke.

Well, at least one of those statements still holds true.

TDog
04-08-2012, 05:24 PM
One thing to consider, Sox tickets would become harder to find and more expensive.

As if White Sox fans don't come up with enough excuses not to go to the games.

Brian26
04-08-2012, 06:00 PM
As if White Sox fans don't come up with enough excuses not to go to the games.

No arguments from me on that one.

Broccoli Rob
04-08-2012, 06:58 PM
As for the team, I never really had a problem with them and think it's awesome you can take a single train from the doorsteps of Wrigley Field to the doorsteps of the Sox. It's cool to have an NL team in Chicago and it's comforting to know that 99% of the time in Chicago's summer you can go to a MAJOR LEAGUE baseball game that day. I don't root for the Cubs but I also don't root for them to lose. Back when I was younger, I would definitely pull against them because I fully subscribed to the Cubs Suck fan club... but now I just don't care anymore. They say the opposite of love isn't hate, it's apathy. And I'm apathetic as to how the team performs, but I like having the institution in my city.

That being said Cubs fans can still be pretty damn annoying, especially the ones that can't really argue logically. I guess all fanbases have those people but it just seems Cubs fans, with all their default backers in the North side, tend to show it more...

But it's far more fun to live in an environment that sustains two teams and all the things that come with it (trash talking, BP CROSSTOWN CUP, an idea that the Sox and Cubs might regain that early 2000s rivalry that, if culminated in a world series, would see the city destroying itself inside via Batman Begins style rioting).

Gordon Shumway
04-08-2012, 07:26 PM
Many Cub fans would, I think, say yes to the White Sox leaving town and be incredibly ****ing obnoxious about it, so I have no problem saying yes to the Cubs being gone.
Exactly, back in the early nineties when there was talk of the Sox moving to Florida before they built the Cell, I had Cub fan friends who couldn't wait for it to happen. They even rubbed in the mere talk of a move for a few years after it didn't happen. I would be giddy if the Cubs left.

Milw
04-08-2012, 11:33 PM
I like having the Cubs around, honestly, because in seasons when the Sox aren't championship contenders, it gives me something else to care about. Whether it's cheering for a good Cubs team to epically melt down in hilarious fashion or just laughing at the nightly misfortunes of a bad Cubs team, they're a fun sideshow. In seasons when the Sox are actually good, I could care less about the Cubs, of course. But if I'm being honest, the most memorable seasons of my life are 2005, 2008, 2000, 1993 and 2003--the latter being attributable to the NLCS.

I wouldn't shed a tear if the Cubs moved to Las Vegas, and the Sox as a franchise would be better for it financially. But it would make baseball a little bit less entertaining for me.

RKMeibalane
04-08-2012, 11:41 PM
No, though I would like to see Wrigley Field burn down. I wouldn't want anyone to get hurt, of course, but it would be funny to see Cubs fans crying over the Urinal's demise.

DrCrawdad
04-08-2012, 11:59 PM
The Cubbies can stay around and I don't have dreams of them leaving town. In a magnanimous moment, I can wish the best for the Cubbies this season. However the condescending, smug, smarter-than-thou attitude from and towards Epstein bars me from holding those good feelings for too long.

Nellie_Fox
04-09-2012, 12:06 AM
I would just be happy if we could guarantee that they were bad every year for the next 30 years....and Wrigley literally starts to crumble. Then they could stay in Chicago.What do you mean, "starts?" It's already happening.

Moses_Scurry
04-09-2012, 08:46 AM
What do you mean, "starts?" It's already happening.

Hypothetical scenario, finish the story line:

What would happen if Wrigley collapsed and become unplayable in the middle of the season? My guess is that the cubs would play at the Cell, Milwaukee, or a college field somewhere until the end of the season like the Vikings did with the Metrodome.

What would happen if the collapse occurred during a game and there was a big death toll (possibly including players and personnel)? Would the cubs cancel and forfeit the rest of the season? Would MLB cancel the rest of the season? I would think the cubs definitely would, but doubt that MLB would go that far.

SOXPHILE
04-09-2012, 09:27 AM
Yes. Go away. As funny as it is to laugh at them and their "fans", I'd much rather not have any of it around. Not having to deal with the Cubs game fans and the slobbering media would be much more preferable. Wrigley Field can be torn down and the space used for whatever, or they could leave it up and turn it into some douchebag frat boy and trixie theme park, which it already is anyway. The only difference is there wouldn't be baseball games played there.

Golden Sox
04-09-2012, 10:31 AM
Have you EVER met a Cubs fan who is a baseball fan? All Cubs fans care about is the Cubs. If the Cubs left Chicago, I would be glad to see it. I doubt that any Cubs fans would become White Sox fans if the Cubs left Chicago.

SephClone89
04-09-2012, 10:54 AM
Have you EVER met a Cubs fan who is a baseball fan? All Cubs fans care about is the Cubs.

Yes. Because I don't deal in blanket generalizations of an entire fanbase.

doublem23
04-09-2012, 11:02 AM
Have you EVER met a Cubs fan who is a baseball fan?

Yes, many

C-Dawg
04-09-2012, 11:22 AM
Many Cub fans would, I think, say yes to the White Sox leaving town and be incredibly ****ing obnoxious about it, so I have no problem saying yes to the Cubs being gone.

I agree completely. I still get flack from Cub fans for the Sox' almost-move to Florida, what almost 25 years ago. Like I could have done anything to prevent it!

aryzner
04-09-2012, 01:11 PM
I don't hate the Cubs and I like baseball so no.

Hitmen77
04-09-2012, 01:15 PM
Many Cub fans would, I think, say yes to the White Sox leaving town and be incredibly ****ing obnoxious about it, so I have no problem saying yes to the Cubs being gone.

I agree completely. I still get flack from Cub fans for the Sox' almost-move to Florida, what almost 25 years ago. Like I could have done anything to prevent it!

I agree 100000%.

When it looked like the Sox were about to move to Fla in 1988, the Cubs fans I knew were all getting set to dance on the Chicago White Sox's grave.

The other thing that gives me zero sympathy for many Cubs fans is that they like to go around acting like the Cubs are the only "real" team in town. I even heard Cubs fans say this in early 2006!

I'd have no problem seeing the Cubs leave town.

Broccoli Rob
04-09-2012, 01:27 PM
Seems like a lot of people dislike Cubs fans more than the actual Chicago Cubs.

doublem23
04-09-2012, 01:49 PM
Seems like a lot of people dislike Cubs fans more than the actual Chicago Cubs.

I think most of us know plenty of good Cub fans, people who actually care about baseball, who live and die with their team (OK, mostly die), and are general, good guys and girls who just happen to root for the Cubs.

The folks we hate are the "Cubs" fans, the folks who go to Wrigley just to be seen, who care more about how many Old Styles they can pound with their bros than about the game, and are always willing to talk **** at the drop of a hat over how awful Sox fans are when names like Ron Cey, Randy Hundley, and Phil Cavaretta don't mean a damn thing to them.

Those people suck.

Milw
04-09-2012, 01:54 PM
I think most of us know plenty of good Cub fans, people who actually care about baseball, who live and die with their team (OK, mostly die), and are general, good guys and girls who just happen to root for the Cubs.

The folks we hate are the "Cubs" fans, the folks who go to Wrigley just to be seen, who care more about how many Old Styles they can pound with their bros than about the game, and are always willing to talk **** at the drop of a hat over how awful Sox fans are when names like Ron Cey, Randy Hundley, and Phil Cavaretta don't mean a damn thing to them.

Those people suck.
+1

Some of my best friends are Cubs fans. Several of them share our views of how annoying the Wrigleyville culture has become. As much as I like to give them a hard time about their team, I do feel bad in a way that good Cubs fans get lumped with the bad.

MisterB
04-09-2012, 05:58 PM
The truly unique thing about the Sox-Cubs rivalry is having the same two teams play in the same city continuously for over 110 years.

No one else in American professional sports can make that claim.

guillensdisciple
04-09-2012, 07:05 PM
Nah, Chicago deserves two teams. Don't care how annoying the other one might be, Chicago is already disregarded as it is so might as well keep them. Either way, they're just a funny side story. It's not like they actually affect us in any way.

MARTINMVP
04-09-2012, 09:15 PM
Nah, Chicago deserves two teams. Don't care how annoying the other one might be, Chicago is already disregarded as it is so might as well keep them. Either way, they're just a funny side story. It's not like they actually affect us in any way.

Funny side story. That about sums it up.

Nellie_Fox
04-10-2012, 12:15 AM
Nah, Chicago deserves two teams. Don't care how annoying the other one might be, Chicago is already disregarded as it is so might as well keep them. Either way, they're just a funny side story. It's not like they actually affect us in any way.Absolutely untrue. They're direct competition for sports entertainment dollars. There are a finite number to go around, so a good percentage of the dollars that get spent on the Cubs is not available to the Sox. The Chicago media fawn over them, and they thus take free publicity time away from the Sox. They have a HUGE impact on the Sox.

TDog
04-10-2012, 12:41 AM
Absolutely untrue. They're direct competition for sports entertainment dollars. There are a finite number to go around, so a good percentage of the dollars that get spent on the Cubs is not available to the Sox. The Chicago media fawn over them, and they thus take free publicity time away from the Sox. They have a HUGE impact on the Sox.

In theory (and it will always remain theory), I have to agree with everything you wrote. But practically, I don't see a sharp increase in Yankees attendance when New York went from being a three-team to a one-team baseball city. And in 1964, the Yankees, despite going to the World Series, were outdrawn by a last-place expansion team.

If Chicago became a one-team baseball city, I don't believe many Cubs fans would become White Sox fans. The effect when a team leaves a city it shares seems to be that it turns a lot of fans away from Major League Baseball.

Frater Perdurabo
04-10-2012, 06:13 AM
In theory (and it will always remain theory), I have to agree with everything you wrote. But practically, I don't see a sharp increase in Yankees attendance when New York went from being a three-team to a one-team baseball city. And in 1964, the Yankees, despite going to the World Series, were outdrawn by a last-place expansion team.

If Chicago became a one-team baseball city, I don't believe many Cubs fans would become White Sox fans. The effect when a team leaves a city it shares seems to be that it turns a lot of fans away from Major League Baseball.

Many Chicago Cardinals fans refused to root for the Bears when the Cards left. However, by the 1980s almost everyone born in the Chicago area after the Cards left was a Bears fan. Within a generation of the Cubs hypothetically leaving Chicago, most new baseball fans in the Chicago area would be Sox fans.

C-Dawg
04-10-2012, 06:32 AM
Boston needs a NL team! The Cubs would be perfect for them!

Frater Perdurabo
04-10-2012, 07:35 AM
Boston needs a NL team! The Cubs would be perfect for them!

I like the way you think.

Cangelosi CF
04-10-2012, 07:56 AM
Boston needs a NL team! The Cubs would be perfect for them! rename them the Boston Braves!

yes I'd be happy to see the Cubs leave town, because a) it means I won't have to spend money on Cubs tickets to keep my wife happy and b) less traffic in Ravenswood on game days.

Nellie_Fox
04-10-2012, 11:43 AM
In theory (and it will always remain theory), I have to agree with everything you wrote. But practically, I don't see a sharp increase in Yankees attendance when New York went from being a three-team to a one-team baseball city. And in 1964, the Yankees, despite going to the World Series, were outdrawn by a last-place expansion team.

If Chicago became a one-team baseball city, I don't believe many Cubs fans would become White Sox fans. The effect when a team leaves a city it shares seems to be that it turns a lot of fans away from Major League Baseball.The change wouldn't happen overnight. The Yankees didn't have an entire generation raised with only one team to choose from, they only had a couple of years before a National League team came back to NY, giving the bitter Giants and Dodgers fans a place to go and maintain their hatred of the Yankees. Given enough time as a one-team city, the children and grandchildren of those Giants and Dodgers fans would mostly have become Yankees fans.

A good example is the Bears. Most hard-core Cardinals fans never switched to the Bears when the Cards left town, but given enough time, kids grew up with only the Bears to watch, and no one can argue that the Bears aren't absolutely dominant in Chicago now. There was a smaller version of it when the Sox were, for all practical purposes, absent from Chicago television. Those who were already Sox fans didn't switch allegiances, but a whole generation of kids who could come home from school and turn on the Cubs on WGN became Cubs fans, even on the south side and in northwest Indiana. If the Cubs left town, eventually it would be of huge benefit to the Sox.

TDog
04-10-2012, 02:27 PM
The change wouldn't happen overnight. The Yankees didn't have an entire generation raised with only one team to choose from, they only had a couple of years before a National League team came back to NY, giving the bitter Giants and Dodgers fans a place to go and maintain their hatred of the Yankees. Given enough time as a one-team city, the children and grandchildren of those Giants and Dodgers fans would mostly have become Yankees fans.

A good example is the Bears. Most hard-core Cardinals fans never switched to the Bears when the Cards left town, but given enough time, kids grew up with only the Bears to watch, and no one can argue that the Bears aren't absolutely dominant in Chicago now. There was a smaller version of it when the Sox were, for all practical purposes, absent from Chicago television. Those who were already Sox fans didn't switch allegiances, but a whole generation of kids who could come home from school and turn on the Cubs on WGN became Cubs fans, even on the south side and in northwest Indiana. If the Cubs left town, eventually it would be of huge benefit to the Sox.

I understand what you are saying in theory, I just think it would take a very long time and realistically, I think the Cardinals scenario only plays out in a generation if it's the White Sox were the team to leave leave.

Baseball fandom is tied more to tradition than football. With football, people seem more likely to cheer for the team the NFL puts out there for them.

My father grew up a Brooklyn Dodgers fan and there is no way he would ever cheer for the Yankees or raise any sons who would ever cheer for the Yankees. As a Marine officer, he was stationed in Southern California when the Dodgers moved west, but there was no way he was ever going to support the Los Angeles Dodgers. He moved to Northwest Indiana during the 1959 season and White Sox became his team because he was comfortable rooting against the Yankees and, as it turned out, the Los Angeles Dodgers, despite his father-in-law being a Cubs fan. A half century later, his oldest son can like the Giants, but there is no way I would ever define myself as a Cubs fan or go to one of their games without pulling for the other team.

For baseball fans, the teams you love and the teams you loathe are probably more a part of who you are than in other sports.

If the Cubs left Chicago, I doubt that you would see a correspoonding spike in White Sox attendance.

palehozenychicty
04-10-2012, 10:59 PM
I'll be the first to put them on the Mayflower. :tongue:

Nellie_Fox
04-11-2012, 12:06 AM
I understand what you are saying in theory, I just think it would take a very long time and realistically, I think the Cardinals scenario only plays out in a generation if it's the White Sox were the team to leave leave.

Baseball fandom is tied more to tradition than football. With football, people seem more likely to cheer for the team the NFL puts out there for them.

My father grew up a Brooklyn Dodgers fan and there is no way he would ever cheer for the Yankees or raise any sons who would ever cheer for the Yankees. As a Marine officer, he was stationed in Southern California when the Dodgers moved west, but there was no way he was ever going to support the Los Angeles Dodgers. He moved to Northwest Indiana during the 1959 season and White Sox became his team because he was comfortable rooting against the Yankees and, as it turned out, the Los Angeles Dodgers, despite his father-in-law being a Cubs fan. A half century later, his oldest son can like the Giants, but there is no way I would ever define myself as a Cubs fan or go to one of their games without pulling for the other team.

For baseball fans, the teams you love and the teams you loathe are probably more a part of who you are than in other sports.

If the Cubs left Chicago, I doubt that you would see a correspoonding spike in White Sox attendance.I disagree, and all the Cubs fans on the south side and northwest Indiana are evidence of how quickly allegiances can change as a result of which team kids are able to follow on television. However, we'll never know which of us is right, at least not in my lifetime. I still stand by my original statement, which is that saying the Cubs have no affect at all on the Sox is totally incorrect.

white sox bill
04-11-2012, 11:46 AM
As another poster said about the opposite of love isn't hate its indifference. True...wanna get under a cub fans skin? Say you hate them and so on. But wanna really get the old blood pressure up? Tell them you really dont follow them and have no idea where they are in the standings.

TDog
04-11-2012, 07:14 PM
I disagree, and all the Cubs fans on the south side and northwest Indiana are evidence of how quickly allegiances can change as a result of which team kids are able to follow on television. However, we'll never know which of us is right, at least not in my lifetime. I still stand by my original statement, which is that saying the Cubs have no affect at all on the Sox is totally incorrect.

Of course, it's a purely hypothetic argument that will never be proven right or wrong, but we disagree. I believe the Cubs leaving town would have a negligible effect on the White Sox for a very long time if not permanently. When I was in Northwest Indiana from 1967 through the 1970s, it was Cubs country. The kids I went to school with came from Cubs homes. They didn't change their loyalties because the Cubs were on TV when they came home from school. Their fathers used to tell them that the White Sox had outfield walls with wheels that moved in when the White Sox were at bat.

I think the Cubs moving to a distant city would hurt baseball in Chicago, turning more people away from the game, than it would help White Sox attendance. And becasue baseball is a sport that requires an actual attention span, which American society isn't cultivating in people anymore, I don't think the people who would be Cubs fans will eventually turn to the White Sox. I believe they will end up not paying attention to baseball.

I don't see White Sox baseball being much different than it is now in that people wouldn't support the team in big numbers unless they were winning.

WisSoxFan
04-12-2012, 09:12 AM
Hypothetical scenario, finish the story line:

What would happen if Wrigley collapsed and become unplayable in the middle of the season? My guess is that the cubs would play at the Cell, Milwaukee, or a college field somewhere until the end of the season like the Vikings did with the Metrodome.

What would happen if the collapse occurred during a game and there was a big death toll (possibly including players and personnel)? Would the cubs cancel and forfeit the rest of the season? Would MLB cancel the rest of the season? I would think the cubs definitely would, but doubt that MLB would go that far.

All major leagues have a "disaster plan" should, God forbid, a plane crash or some other disaster claim members of a team. I would assume MLB would put that plan in place for the Cubs, in this scenario, and continue the season with the Cubs playing in Milwaukee and the Cell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disaster_draft

tick53
04-13-2012, 08:49 AM
One of the things that make Chicago unique is that the city has 2 teams, only NY, LA , the Bay area and Chicago can make that claim.
The Cubs can stay but I wish things were like the way they were in the 50s and 60s when Chicago was a Sox town and the Cubs were a joke.

My thoughts exactly :cool:

doublem23
04-13-2012, 09:19 AM
I think the Cubs moving to a distant city would hurt baseball in Chicago, turning more people away from the game, than it would help White Sox attendance. And becasue baseball is a sport that requires an actual attention span, which American society isn't cultivating in people anymore, I don't think the people who would be Cubs fans will eventually turn to the White Sox. I believe they will end up not paying attention to baseball.


I think you are correct if the Cubs moved and the Sox stayed in Bridgeport. If the Cubs moved and the Sox moved somewhere in Chicago a little more hip, say, the South Loop, it would be an unimaginable boon for the team.

TDog
04-13-2012, 01:00 PM
I think you are correct if the Cubs moved and the Sox stayed in Bridgeport. If the Cubs moved and the Sox moved somewhere in Chicago a little more hip, say, the South Loop, it would be an unimaginable boon for the team.

You might be right. So much of the identity in the Chicago teams is tied with the locations of their ballparks, probably more than the ballparks themselves. Moving to the White Sox to someplace more fashionable in Chicago as the city's only team would change the way many perceive the team.

RadioheadRocks
04-14-2012, 07:24 PM
Have you EVER met a Cubs fan who is a baseball fan? All Cubs fans care about is the Cubs. If the Cubs left Chicago, I would be glad to see it. I doubt that any Cubs fans would become White Sox fans if the Cubs left Chicago.


Actually the main thing they care about above all else is "popularity".

DrCrawdad
04-14-2012, 07:47 PM
Actually the main thing they care about above all else is "popularity".

http://azure.sarenza.net/static/V4/Content/brands-pages/flash_spot-on_1.jpg?1

StillMissOzzie
04-15-2012, 07:04 PM
If the Cubs left, how would I be able to enjoy the Cub fan suffering of This Year's Savior, Theo, muddle through a year or two of tear-down mode before he can start the rebuilding process in ernest?

SMO
:scratch::scratch:

Thome25
04-15-2012, 07:12 PM
I don't want the Cubs to leave Chicago at all.

I love the City of Chicago first and foremost and having two MLB baseball teams is good for the city.

Sox
04-15-2012, 10:31 PM
If they left, what would we do for comic relief?

True statement...:nocubs

doublem23
04-15-2012, 11:01 PM
You might be right. So much of the identity in the Chicago teams is tied with the locations of their ballparks, probably more than the ballparks themselves. Moving to the White Sox to someplace more fashionable in Chicago as the city's only team would change the way many perceive the team.

Agree, I think a big thing that has been missed in the whole Bears/Cardinals analogy is that 10 years after the Cardinals skipped town, the Bears moved from Wrigley Field to Soldier Field. Whatever old school North Side/South Side rivalry may have existed back in the day is completely non-existent now. The Bears aren't perceived as the "Cub fans'" football team, the Bears are Chicago's team. Likewise, if the Cubs relocated and the Sox stayed in Bridgeport, I think it would take a lot longer for fans to warm up to them, but say they move to a more centrally-located park and worked to embrace being a Chicago team and not just South Side, I think the Bears-style swallowing of the city as a whole would happen.

DSpivack
04-15-2012, 11:26 PM
Agree, I think a big thing that has been missed in the whole Bears/Cardinals analogy is that 10 years after the Cardinals skipped town, the Bears moved from Wrigley Field to Soldier Field. Whatever old school North Side/South Side rivalry may have existed back in the day is completely non-existent now. The Bears aren't perceived as the "Cub fans'" football team, the Bears are Chicago's team. Likewise, if the Cubs relocated and the Sox stayed in Bridgeport, I think it would take a lot longer for fans to warm up to them, but say they move to a more centrally-located park and worked to embrace being a Chicago team and not just South Side, I think the Bears-style swallowing of the city as a whole would happen.

One thing that has always boggled my mind is that the Bears were named after the Cubs, and not the other way around!

doublem23
04-15-2012, 11:36 PM
One thing that has always boggled my mind is that the Bears were named after the Cubs, and not the other way around!

Just be glad the team we root for ended up with the good name. :cool:

DSpivack
04-16-2012, 12:08 AM
Just be glad the team we root for ended up with the good name. :cool:

And our name was taken from the Cubs' original name. :redface:

It sounds better than Chicago Saints, anyway, as I suppose they could have kept the name after moving from their one-year stay in St. Paul. The same goes for the Bears: Chicago Staleys?

SephClone89
04-16-2012, 06:10 AM
And our name was taken from the Cubs' original name. :redface:

It sounds better than Chicago Saints, anyway, as I suppose they could have kept the name after moving from their one-year stay in St. Paul. The same goes for the Bears: Chicago Staleys?

I believe they actually were called the Chicago Staleys for a year or so after moving.

doublem23
04-16-2012, 06:13 AM
I believe they actually were called the Chicago Staleys for a year or so after moving.

Yeah, for 1 season until George Halas bought the team from A. E. Staley Co.

cards press box
04-16-2012, 11:58 AM
I think most of us know plenty of good Cub fans, people who actually care about baseball, who live and die with their team (OK, mostly die), and are general, good guys and girls who just happen to root for the Cubs.

I know a lot of good Cub fans and I see your point. I am actually surprised that the Cubs didn't move to California in the early to mid 1950's. P.K. Wrigley not only owned Catalina Isalnd (where the Cubs trained) but also owned Wrigley Field in Los Angeles (where the t.v. show Home Run Derby was filmed and where the L.A. Angels originally played). In fact, Walter O'Malley convinced Wrigley to swap territorial rights of Southern California for Texas so he could move the Dodgers to L.A.

Given how strong the Sox were in the 1950's, the bonanza that was an open California market and the Wrigley's deep ties to Southern California, it is amazing that Wrigley did not move the Cubs to L.A. I think most businessmen would have done so.

Many Chicago Cardinals fans refused to root for the Bears when the Cards left. However, by the 1980s almost everyone born in the Chicago area after the Cards left was a Bears fan. Within a generation of the Cubs hypothetically leaving Chicago, most new baseball fans in the Chicago area would be Sox fans.

Some of us still root for the football Cardinals.

Viva Medias B's
04-16-2012, 06:49 PM
I think a second NFL team coming to Chicago is more likely than the Cubs leaving Chicago.

DSpivack
04-16-2012, 07:05 PM
I think a second NFL team coming to Chicago is more likely than the Cubs leaving Chicago.

Perhaps. Neither will ever happen.

SteveFakeBlood
04-16-2012, 10:26 PM
It's pretty pathetic that my first post on here in about 3 years is about the Cubs, maybe more pathetic that I'm actually doing it while watching a Sox game)- and perhaps still more pathetic that it amounts to saying "Ditto" but huge +1's for TomBradley72 and doublem23:

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

The Cubbies are a place for all of the non-baseball fans, tourists, transplants, frat boys/sorority girls to gravitate to- leaving my team for the more diehard fans, more down to earth Chicagoans (I realize I'm seriously stereotyping here!).

Without that alternative- they'll all show up at 35th & Veeck Drive-and they'll bring their Ronnie Woo Woo, throwing homers back, hyper emotional/self important bull**** with them.




I think most of us know plenty of good Cub fans, people who actually care about baseball, who live and die with their team (OK, mostly die), and are general, good guys and girls who just happen to root for the Cubs.

The folks we hate are the "Cubs" fans, the folks who go to Wrigley just to be seen, who care more about how many Old Styles they can pound with their bros than about the game, and are always willing to talk **** at the drop of a hat over how awful Sox fans are when names like Ron Cey, Randy Hundley, and Phil Cavaretta don't mean a damn thing to them.

Those people suck.

It's funny- but living in Miami, I actually miss them. I'm sure I'll run across a few when I go to a Marlins/Cubs game this week and may change my tune then. Yes, the Cubs partly inspired me (I'm also thrilled Buehrle's pitching, but I didn't have the rotation down when I bought the tickets)- but considering a lack of money to travel to attend Sox games, I was going to go to a Marlins game regardless. They're my NL team and I figure they need fans. Anyway, but the point is- the Marlins are only the third most popular baseball team in Miami. Predictably, the Yankees and Red Sox have a foothold here among the minority of people who pay any attention to baseball (not that most of the people wearing their gear probably even pay attention to baseball). I kinda miss people paying attention to baseball, even in a terribly superficial way- and surprisingly I miss people who hate the Sox, rather than assuming my White Sox gear is a Red Sox logo and then asking increduously "There's another baseball team with Sox in their name?"

Yeah, the revenue would be better if the Sox were the only baseball team in Chicago. Yes, a huge chunk of the Cubs' "fan"base would stop caring about baseball and we'd never have to deal with them at the Cell. But the truth is- the minority of Cubs fans' whose fandom I respect- the ones who have been born and raised (i.e. second or third generation) Cubs fans and who actually know something about baseball- would never convert to our side. And I respect them because they wouldn't. Call me elitist- but I don't really want converts (young kids or by marriage are acceptable). There's a certain undefinable something about being a Sox fan (OK, maybe it's a tribal identity- but that carries less mystique) and I think that would get diluted in a one team city. But I miss the arguments (even as juvenile as they got) and I would miss saving face in a failed season by at least beating the Cubs in the Red Line series. As much as I hate to say it- I think we need the Cubs and Cubs fans. Our main division rival has changed over the years- in my lifetime it's been the Royals, the A's (although, honestly in the late '80s- we weren't anywhere near them), the Indians, the Twins, the Tigers. You can argue that before interleague play- the Sox/Cubs rivalry wasn't as big a deal- but if you look at the history of our club, the Cubs tried to prevent the Sox from even existing in Chicago- and Comiskey took their name out of spite. If that's not the best reason a rivalry begins, I don't know what is. So as much as I hate to say it- we need the Cubs and Cubs fans.

Anyway, I more or less lost my train of thought and in my rambling- you get the general idea- financially, it'd be good- culturally it'd be a disaster.

In the midst of writing this post- the Sox have completely imploded- sorry, guys. :(:

~ Steve

cub killer
04-17-2012, 01:33 AM
It's pretty pathetic that my first post on here in about 3 years is about the Cubs, maybe more pathetic that I'm actually doing it while watching a Sox game)- and perhaps still more pathetic that it amounts to saying "Ditto" but huge +1's for TomBradley72 and doublem23:








It's funny- but living in Miami, I actually miss them. I'm sure I'll run across a few when I go to a Marlins/Cubs game this week and may change my tune then. Yes, the Cubs partly inspired me (I'm also thrilled Buehrle's pitching, but I didn't have the rotation down when I bought the tickets)- but considering a lack of money to travel to attend Sox games, I was going to go to a Marlins game regardless. They're my NL team and I figure they need fans. Anyway, but the point is- the Marlins are only the third most popular baseball team in Miami. Predictably, the Yankees and Red Sox have a foothold here among the minority of people who pay any attention to baseball (not that most of the people wearing their gear probably even pay attention to baseball). I kinda miss people paying attention to baseball, even in a terribly superficial way- and surprisingly I miss people who hate the Sox, rather than assuming my White Sox gear is a Red Sox logo and then asking increduously "There's another baseball team with Sox in their name?"

Yeah, the revenue would be better if the Sox were the only baseball team in Chicago. Yes, a huge chunk of the Cubs' "fan"base would stop caring about baseball and we'd never have to deal with them at the Cell. But the truth is- the minority of Cubs fans' whose fandom I respect- the ones who have been born and raised (i.e. second or third generation) Cubs fans and who actually know something about baseball- would never convert to our side. And I respect them because they wouldn't. Call me elitist- but I don't really want converts (young kids or by marriage are acceptable). There's a certain undefinable something about being a Sox fan (OK, maybe it's a tribal identity- but that carries less mystique) and I think that would get diluted in a one team city. But I miss the arguments (even as juvenile as they got) and I would miss saving face in a failed season by at least beating the Cubs in the Red Line series. As much as I hate to say it- I think we need the Cubs and Cubs fans. Our main division rival has changed over the years- in my lifetime it's been the Royals, the A's (although, honestly in the late '80s- we weren't anywhere near them), the Indians, the Twins, the Tigers. You can argue that before interleague play- the Sox/Cubs rivalry wasn't as big a deal- but if you look at the history of our club, the Cubs tried to prevent the Sox from even existing in Chicago- and Comiskey took their name out of spite. If that's not the best reason a rivalry begins, I don't know what is. So as much as I hate to say it- we need the Cubs and Cubs fans.

Anyway, I more or less lost my train of thought and in my rambling- you get the general idea- financially, it'd be good- culturally it'd be a disaster.

In the midst of writing this post- the Sox have completely imploded- sorry, guys. :(:

~ Steve
Ugh. No offense, brother, but it really bothers me when people think the rivalry defines our identity. I'd rather the rivalry have little or nothing to do with what it means to be a Sox fan.

So, I couldn't disagree more. I don't think we need the rivalry at all. We have our hands full with the Hostess Cakes, Toons, and kitty cats. That's enough rivalry for us. :cool:

TDog
04-17-2012, 04:16 PM
Ugh. No offense, brother, but it really bothers me when people think the rivalry defines our identity. ..

The rivalry is one of the things that defines Chicago's identity.

SteveFakeBlood
04-20-2012, 12:22 AM
Ugh. No offense, brother, but it really bothers me when people think the rivalry defines our identity. I'd rather the rivalry have little or nothing to do with what it means to be a Sox fan.

So, I couldn't disagree more. I don't think we need the rivalry at all. We have our hands full with the Hostess Cakes, Toons, and kitty cats. That's enough rivalry for us. :cool:

Also, no offense- but I'd be remiss to not comment on how ironic that statement is coming from someone whose name is "Cub killer". I also never intended to imply that it defines our identity, but I think it's definitely a part of it- and as TDog said- it is one of the defining features of the Chicagoland area...

~ Steve

LITTLE NELL
04-21-2012, 02:17 PM
Earlier in this thread I said that its a good thing that Chicago has 2 teams but a few minutes ago I checked in to see if the Flubs were losing again (they are ahead) and lo and behold the Urinal looks pretty well populated as are the roof tops and I'm pissed off. This team has the 2nd worst record in MLB and are a bunch of losers yet they open up the gates and idiots fight their way to get in. 37,000 yesterday and probably 40,000 today. Let them move and take their idiot fandom with them.

doublem23
04-21-2012, 07:35 PM
Earlier in this thread I said that its a good thing that Chicago has 2 teams but a few minutes ago I checked in to see if the Flubs were losing again (they are ahead) and lo and behold the Urinal looks pretty well populated as are the roof tops and I'm pissed off. This team has the 2nd worst record in MLB and are a bunch of losers yet they open up the gates and idiots fight their way to get in. 37,000 yesterday and probably 40,000 today. Let them move and take their idiot fandom with them.

They may have sold 37,000 tickets yesterday, but I turned the game on and there was no way Wrigley was more than 1/2 full

WhiteSox5187
04-21-2012, 09:38 PM
They may have sold 37,000 tickets yesterday, but I turned the game on and there was no way Wrigley was more than 1/2 full

My dad was at the game yesterday (he has a friend who works for the Reds) and said the number of people in the seats was more like 10,000.

doublem23
04-21-2012, 09:41 PM
My dad was at the game yesterday (he has a friend who works for the Reds) and said the number of people in the seats was more like 10,000.

Looked like a significant number of them Cincinnati fans, too