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View Full Version : OFFICIAL "It's just one game" Opening Day Loser Postgame thread


thomas35forever
04-06-2012, 03:34 PM
Could have been a worse defeat.

doublem23
04-06-2012, 03:34 PM
Play nice, y'all

Frater Perdurabo
04-06-2012, 03:35 PM
Congrats to the Rangers fans for their team winning the World Series today.

soxnut1018
04-06-2012, 03:35 PM
Meh. At least Dunn looked good.

FielderJones
04-06-2012, 03:35 PM
8 hits 2 runs. Fire Walker.

WhiteSox5187
04-06-2012, 03:35 PM
I suspect that this is the first of many losses but on the plus side Danks looked good. Dunn hit a home run...and um...hmmmm. Well it's only one game.

tebman
04-06-2012, 03:36 PM
I was at work and followed Game Day online and didn't see them in action. Were they as punchless as it seemed?

doublem23
04-06-2012, 03:36 PM
I suspect that this is the first of many losses but on the plus side Danks looked good. Dunn hit a home run...and um...hmmmm. Well it's only one game.

Viciedo with a nice double and a nice play in LF

Frater Perdurabo
04-06-2012, 03:36 PM
8 hits 2 runs. Fire Walker.

Just because the job is difficult - especially with this team - doesn't mean Walker was good at it.

beasly213
04-06-2012, 03:36 PM
Congrats to the Rangers fans for their team winning the World Series today.

:scratch:

palehozenychicty
04-06-2012, 03:37 PM
Other than Dunn, the offense is what we thought it'd be. 13 strikeouts is pitiful. :(:

SephClone89
04-06-2012, 03:37 PM
First Opening Day loss since '08.

soltrain21
04-06-2012, 03:37 PM
Congrats to the Rangers fans for their team winning the World Series today.

Are fans not to be excited for an opening day win?

A. Cavatica
04-06-2012, 03:37 PM
Not much to be excited or despondent over. Just a yawner.

WhiteSox5187
04-06-2012, 03:37 PM
Viciedo with a nice double and a nice play in LF

True! True! I missed that. The bullpen looked good also.

Frater Perdurabo
04-06-2012, 03:37 PM
:scratch:

Many of their fans have become quite obnoxious.

October26
04-06-2012, 03:37 PM
My cub fan co-worker just came over to tell me that the Sox lost their opener just like his team did yesterday. IDIOT.

On a positive note, Danks, Reed, Thornton all pitched great.

AnkleSox
04-06-2012, 03:37 PM
How far outside was that last strike? Jesus.

And Joe Nathan still looks a total creep so my hatred for him remains.

doublem23
04-06-2012, 03:37 PM
I was at work and followed Game Day online and didn't see them in action. Were they as punchless as it seemed?

I would say more disjointed. Texas had 6 baserunners. We had 9. But they put their offense together. We just seemed to routinely have an inning with 1 guy on and 3 outs.

Also, 14 strike outs, 1/2 of which belonged to Morel and Beckham combined.

Harry Potter
04-06-2012, 03:38 PM
First Opening Day loss since '08.

Which just happens to be the last year we went to the postseason!

SephClone89
04-06-2012, 03:38 PM
My cub fan co-worker just came over to tell me that the Sox lost their opener just like his team did yesterday. IDIOT.

On a positive note, Danks, Reed, Thornton all pitched great.

Well, I mean, he's kinda right...

WhiteSox5187
04-06-2012, 03:38 PM
Just because the job is difficult - especially with this team - doesn't mean Walker was good at it.

I don't think he's a very good hitting coach either but IF (and this is a big if) Atlanta has success it would kind of suggest that problem wasn't Walker but rather the guys he had to work with. We'll find that out later. I still don't think Walker is that good btw.

beasly213
04-06-2012, 03:39 PM
Many of their fans have become quite obnoxious.


It's opening day. Fans can get excited.

tebman
04-06-2012, 03:39 PM
I would say more disjointed. Texas had 6 baserunners. We had 9. But they put their offense together. We just seemed to routinely have an inning with 1 guy on and 3 outs.

Also, 14 strike outs, 1/2 of which belonged to Morel and Beckham combined.

Ahh, that's my boys!

WhiteSox5187
04-06-2012, 03:40 PM
Many of their fans have become quite obnoxious.

I thought their fans disappeared once high school football started. But I suppose winning back to back pennants gives you a bit of a cause to gloat.

Irishsox1
04-06-2012, 03:40 PM
Good pitching, too many strike outs. The bottom of the line up is going to be a problem.

PalehosePlanet
04-06-2012, 03:41 PM
The game ended appropriately enough with a pitch 4 inches outside called a strike.

Get 'em tomorrow guys.

doublem23
04-06-2012, 03:41 PM
First Opening Day loss since '08.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/43/i_see_what_you_did_there.jpg

moochpuppy
04-06-2012, 03:42 PM
Failures of the Day = A.Rios (3 LOB) & B.Morel (4 Ks & 3 LOB)

doublem23
04-06-2012, 03:43 PM
Failures of the Day = A.Rios (3 LOB) & B.Morel (4 Ks & 3 LOB)

Morel also had a pretty rough day at the hot corner. He's going to end up in Robin's doghouse.

Frater Perdurabo
04-06-2012, 03:43 PM
It's opening day. Fans can get excited.

Who am I kidding? I thought their fan base was generally obnoxious starting in May 2002.

shingo10
04-06-2012, 03:43 PM
Worst part about this one was tying the game only to give the lead back in a about 20 seconds. So frustrating.

Also was pissed off that De Aza got thrown out to start the game.

Other than that...it was a game we could have had.

kittle42
04-06-2012, 03:43 PM
I don't think we'll get too much arguing in this thread - is anyone really going to be shocked/upset at losses this season?

2 runs scored, losing by 1. I think we will see a lot of that this season.

LoveYourSuit
04-06-2012, 03:43 PM
Beckham and Morel, dear God.

Iron Dragon2
04-06-2012, 03:44 PM
beckham and morel, dear god.

+1

Carneyman14
04-06-2012, 03:45 PM
Many of their fans have become quite obnoxious.
This. They win 1 game there and they start the trash talk Jesus. We won the first 2 one time I went down there. Lost the 3rd and just got hammered with Sox Suck! Go back to Chicago. etc etc.

doublem23
04-06-2012, 03:45 PM
Beckham and Morel, dear God.

Have a feeling that is going to be a recurring theme this year

Frater Perdurabo
04-06-2012, 03:46 PM
I know many Rangers fans who are great baseball fans and great people.

Then there are the other fans who are bandwagon jumpers, who are high school football fans first. For me to describe them adequately would require a post in PI.

soltrain21
04-06-2012, 03:47 PM
Morel also had a pretty rough day at the hot corner. He's going to end up in Robin's doghouse.

More like Birdhouse! Up top!

http://omgtru.com/highfive.gif

kittle42
04-06-2012, 03:47 PM
Have a feeling that is going to be a recurring theme this year

Yeah, Morel was never a highly-touted prospect, even in a system which has been ranked universally at the bottom for years.

October26
04-06-2012, 03:48 PM
Worst part about this one was tying the game only to give the lead back in a about 20 seconds. So frustrating.

Also was pissed off that De Aza got thrown out to start the game.

Other than that...it was a game we could have had.

I agree. I was at work this afternoon, jumping in and out of the gamethread and trying to follow the game online. I stepped away from my desk when the Sox tied it and just like that they gave up the lead.

Danks deserved better. He pitched like an ace today.

Go get 'em tomorrow.

kobo
04-06-2012, 03:48 PM
Pitching was good today, offense not so much. Morel looked really bad today, not sure why he's hitting in the 2 hole, but whatever, it's the first game. That homer Dunn hit was absolutely crushed.

infohawk
04-06-2012, 03:49 PM
Man! That Texas Rangers club is punchless. They could only muster 3 measly runs? Looks like it's gonna be a long summer in Arlington! (Teal)

Frater Perdurabo
04-06-2012, 03:50 PM
He's going to end up in Robin's doghouse.

On the contrary. I think Robin will do everything he can to be a positive influence on Morel. I am not guaranteeing success, but I just don't see Robin as the kind of guy who will throw players - especially young ones - under the bus, either in the media or in the clubhouse.

guillensdisciple
04-06-2012, 03:51 PM
We win one game this series and I'll call this a successful start to the season.

Crestani
04-06-2012, 03:51 PM
Yeah, Morel was never a highly-touted prospect, even in a system which has been ranked universally at the bottom for years.



Ventura put Morel in the two-hole because he puts the ball in play...0-4 all strikeouts!!!

KnightSox
04-06-2012, 03:52 PM
This. They win 1 game there and they start the trash talk Jesus. We won the first 2 one time I went down there. Lost the 3rd and just got hammered with Sox Suck! Go back to Chicago. etc etc.We have a few dumbasses of our own that do the same thing, even after dropping 2 out of 3.

thomas35forever
04-06-2012, 03:53 PM
Ventura put Morel in the two-hole because he puts the ball in play...0-4 all strikeouts!!!
Well if Beckham would learn how to hit again, it might not be necessary.

LITTLE NELL
04-06-2012, 03:54 PM
Morel also had a pretty rough day at the hot corner. He's going to end up in Robin's doghouse.
I know its the first game but when Morel was penciled in for the the #2 spot in the lineup I sort of cringed. I want the Sox to give Gordo another shot at second in the order.

SI1020
04-06-2012, 03:54 PM
Who am I kidding? I thought their fan base was generally obnoxious starting in May 2002. Given your location that can make life kind of tough at times.

doublem23
04-06-2012, 03:54 PM
On the contrary. I think Robin will do everything he can to be a positive influence on Morel. I am not guaranteeing success, but I just don't see Robin as the kind of guy who will throw players - especially young ones - under the bus, either in the media or in the clubhouse.

Well yeah, if you unteal my comment it might seem like I disagree with you.

SoxSpeed22
04-06-2012, 03:55 PM
There's a reason the Rangers are quite better than us and they showed it today with the way they executed. At least the Sox weren't hacking at everything and pulling every away pitch to third base or short.
I also thought Beckham got hosed on two of those strikeouts.

TaylorStSox
04-06-2012, 03:56 PM
Rios and Dunn accounted for our only runs? I'm saving up for WS tickets.

doublem23
04-06-2012, 03:57 PM
I know its the first game but when Morel was penciled in for the the #2 spot in the lineup I sort of cringed. I want the Sox to give Gordo another shot at second in the order.

Until Gordon shows he can hit worth anything, he's better off buried 9th. Really, right now, I would bat Alexei 2nd and hope that either Morel or Gordon find their swings, though, I can also see why Robin wouldn't want to bunch Brent and Gordon back-to-back and have every 3rd inning be pure suck.

Frater Perdurabo
04-06-2012, 03:58 PM
Well yeah, if you unteal my comment it might seem like I disagree with you.

Teal doesn't show up on the iPhone Forum Runner app. My bad.

beasly213
04-06-2012, 04:00 PM
Until Gordon shows he can hit worth anything, he's better off buried 9th. Really, right now, I would bat Alexei 2nd and hope that either Morel or Gordon find their swings, though, I can also see why Robin wouldn't want to bunch Brent and Gordon back-to-back and have every 3rd inning be pure suck.

Alexei has a history of horrible starts to the season. I have no idea who to bat 2nd... maybe AJ?

Frater Perdurabo
04-06-2012, 04:01 PM
Given your location that can make life kind of tough at times.

Understatement on so many levels.

At least I got a Texas girl to marry me.

Frater Perdurabo
04-06-2012, 04:03 PM
Alexei has a history of horrible starts to the season. I have no idea who to bat 2nd... maybe AJ?

I would go DeAza, AJ, Paulie, Dunn, Rios, Alexei, Viciedo, Morel, Bacon

doublem23
04-06-2012, 04:04 PM
Alexei has a history of horrible starts to the season. I have no idea who to bat 2nd... maybe AJ?

Then you get L-L-L at the top of the lineup if you keep Dunn 3rd.

So I guess you just have to pray for Morel. :shrug:

LITTLE NELL
04-06-2012, 04:05 PM
Alexei has a history of horrible starts to the season. I have no idea who to bat 2nd... maybe AJ?

What I wouldn't give for another Nellie Fox or a 2005 version of Tadahito Iguchi.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
04-06-2012, 04:09 PM
What I wouldn't give for another Nellie Fox.

At this rate, I'd sell my soul for another Tadahito Iguchi (circa 2005).

1989
04-06-2012, 04:12 PM
13Ks, 0-7 RISP and we only lost by 1 to the 2 time defending AL champs on the road.

I'm not too upset

TDog
04-06-2012, 04:13 PM
I missed the first five innings after meeting with an accountant (an very complicated tax year). I looked over what I missed, though.

Obviously, it was a game that could have been won, even if it wasn't a game in the should-have-been-won category.

The difference was a poor game by Morel, more costly in the field than in the batting order, and the Rangers making productive outs instead of striking out. The White Sox didn't score their lead-off double. The go-ahead run was in scoring position because Morel didn't field a ball cleanly when he should have at least retired the runner at second. Morel looks solid at third base, but some games can come down to one lapse. (Morel's second defensive lapse had no effect on the score.)

On a positive note, Dunn looked good. I see that he struck out in one at bat, but his other two official at bats were impressive. Unfortunately the rocket he hit to lead off the eighth was caught, or the Sox would have tied the game against Adams.

Also Rios scoring from first on a two-out single was good to see.

RKMeibalane
04-06-2012, 04:14 PM
At this rate, I'd sell my soul for another Tadahito Iguchi (circa 2005).

:manos

"I'm available!"

LITTLE NELL
04-06-2012, 04:15 PM
At this rate, I'd sell my soul for another Tadahito Iguchi (circa 2005).

I just added his name to my post.

JB98
04-06-2012, 04:17 PM
A 3-2 loss. Isn't that the story of John Danks career?

Texas got a leadoff double the first inning and scored the run. The Sox got a leadoff double the third inning and backed it up with three straight strikeouts. That's the difference in a one-run game.

I think the Sox swung at too many bad pitches against Lewis. That guy does not have overpowering stuff by any means. He wants to pitch from the outside corner out, and he was successful at that today because the Sox lacked the discipline to lay off the breaking balls down and away.

Good pitching today, though. They held a strong lineup to three runs. I'll take that any day. Unfortunately, Kinsler just owns Danks.

aryzner
04-06-2012, 04:19 PM
The strike zone today was a joke but the Sox still didn't play well enough to win in my opinion.

I wasn't sure Viciedo would've done anything with a man on 2nd in one of the middle innings but the strike 3 called on him was brutal.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
04-06-2012, 04:20 PM
A 3-2 loss. Isn't that the story of John Danks career?

Texas got a leadoff double the first inning and scored the run. The Sox got a leadoff double the third inning and backed it up with three straight strikeouts. That's the difference in a one-run game.

I think the Sox swung at too many bad pitches against Lewis. That guy does not have overpowering stuff by any means. He wants to pitch from the outside corner out, and he was successful at that today because the Sox lacked the discipline to lay off the breaking balls down and away.

Good pitching today, though. They held a strong lineup to three runs. I'll take that any day. Unfortunately, Kinsler just owns Danks.

The Sox HAD to swing at those pitches, because the ump was giving Lewis an extra six inches, minimum, outside. Look at the called third strike on Viciedo...that ball wasn't anywhere near the plate.

The Sox do need better discipline, yes, but the ump was brutal today.

JB98
04-06-2012, 04:23 PM
The Sox HAD to swing at those pitches, because the ump was giving Lewis an extra six inches, minimum, outside. Look at the called third strike on Viciedo...that ball wasn't anywhere near the plate.

The Sox do need better discipline, yes, but the ump was brutal today.

They were waving at those pitches the first three innings before the umpire had established his zone.

I don't think the umpire had any impact on today's outcome. The Sox hitters got themselves out on too many occasions.

palehozenychicty
04-06-2012, 04:25 PM
A 3-2 loss. Isn't that the story of John Danks career?

Texas got a leadoff double the first inning and scored the run. The Sox got a leadoff double the third inning and backed it up with three straight strikeouts. That's the difference in a one-run game.

I think the Sox swung at too many bad pitches against Lewis. That guy does not have overpowering stuff by any means. He wants to pitch from the outside corner out, and he was successful at that today because the Sox lacked the discipline to lay off the breaking balls down and away.

Good pitching today, though. They held a strong lineup to three runs. I'll take that any day. Unfortunately, Kinsler just owns Danks.

Story of this roster. Too many guys in this lineup are not capable of the strike zone discipline necessary to make productive outs.

It's only one game, but dang.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
04-06-2012, 04:26 PM
They were waving at those pitches the first three innings before the umpire had established his zone.

I don't think the umpire had any impact on today's outcome. The Sox hitters got themselves out on too many occasions.

You're right, he didn't cost them the game (the Sox did that well enough by themselves), but that zone definitely did not help.

kittle42
04-06-2012, 04:29 PM
It wouldn't be a Sox game without umpire complaints (not that he was good, but it's still a fact).

JB98
04-06-2012, 04:30 PM
You're right, he didn't cost them the game (the Sox did that well enough by themselves), but that zone definitely did not help.

And, as the poster above you notes, several of the Sox hitters have a track record of being undisciplined. It isn't like this poor approach just started today. Hopefully, the new coaching staff can get these guys out of that.

1989
04-06-2012, 04:38 PM
And, as the poster above you notes, several of the Sox hitters have a track record of being undisciplined. It isn't like this poor approach just started today. Hopefully, the new coaching staff can get these guys out of that.

Sox were 5th worst in the league at swinging outside the zone at 32.3% in 2011.

18th in the league at 29.6% in 2010.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=5&season=2010&month=0&season1=2010&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&players=0&sort=1,d

cheezheadsoxfan
04-06-2012, 04:38 PM
My cub fan co-worker just came over to tell me that the Sox lost their opener just like his team did yesterday. IDIOT.

On a positive note, Danks, Reed, Thornton all pitched great.

Somehow I think his loss stung a little more.

Carneyman14
04-06-2012, 04:44 PM
We have a few dumbasses of our own that do the same thing, even after dropping 2 out of 3.

I've taken my father to some Yankees vs sox games both in US Cellular an Yankee Stadium. I never got anything negative said to me in Ny or my dad at US Cellular. Not to the extent that the rangers fans have been the last 4 or so years.

thomas35forever
04-06-2012, 04:45 PM
And, as the poster above you notes, several of the Sox hitters have a track record of being undisciplined. It isn't like this poor approach just started today. Hopefully, the new coaching staff can get these guys out of that.
Unfortunately, that Walkerball mentality is still probably fresh in the minds of most of them. It'll probably take awhile before it wears off completely. Manto needs some time to reach them and it might be easier said than done.

cheezheadsoxfan
04-06-2012, 04:46 PM
Trying to be positive, Alexei got a hit and RBI and it's not even the middle of May.

Lip Man 1
04-06-2012, 04:50 PM
I've got a laugh out of the way Thomas 35 Forever opened the thread, "could have been a worse defeat.."

Guess that's what it might come down to for the franchise this year, to at least look good while losing. LOL.

Outside of the obvious most important stat, losing the game, was this one: the Sox were 0-for-7 with runners in scoring position.

That and Morel was awful.

Go get em' tomorrow?

Lip

kittle42
04-06-2012, 04:54 PM
I've got a laugh out of the way Thomas 35 Forever opened the thread, "could have been a worse defeat.."

Guess that's what it might come down to for the franchise this year, to at least look good while losing. LOL.

Outside of the obvious most important stat, losing the game, was this one: the Sox were 0-for-7 with runners in scoring position.

That and Morel was awful.

Go get em' tomorrow?

Of course, go get 'em tomorrow - you have to win some games if you're gonna get those 72-73 wins!

TDog
04-06-2012, 04:59 PM
I've got a laugh out of the way Thomas 35 Forever opened the thread, "could have been a worse defeat.."

Guess that's what it might come down to for the franchise this year, to at least look good while losing. LOL.

Outside of the obvious most important stat, losing the game, was this one: the Sox were 0-for-7 with runners in scoring position.

That and Morel was awful.

Go get em' tomorrow?

Lip

The Rangers only got one hit with runners in scoring position. You don't need to get hits with runners in scoring position to score runs, and the White Sox could have won today's game without getting any hits with runners in scoring position if they pushed across the leadoff double and made the force at second in the sixth.

SCCWS
04-06-2012, 05:02 PM
Morel also had a pretty rough day at the hot corner. He's going to end up in Robin's doghouse.

Rough is putting it mildly. Forget Robin, Danks cussed him out when he booted the doubleplay

Foulke You
04-06-2012, 05:02 PM
They were waving at those pitches the first three innings before the umpire had established his zone.

I don't think the umpire had any impact on today's outcome. The Sox hitters got themselves out on too many occasions.

Sox hitters looked over anxious in the early innings but the discipline got better in the second half of the game. The ump was calling a super wide plate. There were many questionable called strikes in big situations.

Nothing is as over analyzed as opening day games. Today could have gone either way. Texas caught a few breaks, Kinsler had a great game, and we couldn't get that big hit. Tomorrow is a new day.

Foulke You
04-06-2012, 05:06 PM
How far outside was that last strike? Jesus.

And Joe Nathan still looks a total creep so my hatred for him remains.

God yes. My skin crawled watching Nathan slap his chest after the win. Can't stand that scumbag.

SCCWS
04-06-2012, 05:08 PM
What I wouldn't give for another Nellie Fox or a 2005 version of Tadahito Iguchi.


How about a Gary Peters. Maybe one of the starters is a better hitter than some of the regulars.

Zakath
04-06-2012, 05:20 PM
Morel had 57 K's in 413 AB's last year, only having multiple strikeout games 7 times (struck out three times only twice). Getting K'ed 4 times today... ouch.

Beckham, on the other hand, had 111 K's in 499 ABs, but only struck out three times in a game once (ironically, at Texas on May 24 in an 8-6 win).

Looks like we're going to be looking for a #2 hitter for a long time...

Zakath
04-06-2012, 05:22 PM
God yes. My skin crawled watching Nathan slap his chest after the win. Can't stand that scumbag.

Apparently the league is getting a little too much Valverde-itis.

He should have kissed the umpire for calling that last one a strike.

tstrike2000
04-06-2012, 05:34 PM
The game ended appropriately enough with a pitch 4 inches outside called a strike.

Get 'em tomorrow guys.

The strike zone on our hitters was bad all day. Lewis' last strikeout on, I believe it was Viciedo, had to be at least 6-8 inches outside.

KMcMahon817
04-06-2012, 05:36 PM
Meh. Just one game is right. Had our chances. Home plate umpire was a joke. Get em' tomorrow. So happy to have the SOX to watch!!

KMcMahon817
04-06-2012, 05:39 PM
I would go DeAza, AJ, Paulie, Dunn, Rios, Alexei, Viciedo, Morel, Bacon

Agreed on Morel. AJ should be in the two hole. Morel needs to be loose, he looked timid and was trying to put the ball in RF way too much.

LongLiveFisk
04-06-2012, 05:42 PM
This. They win 1 game there and they start the trash talk Jesus. We won the first 2 one time I went down there. Lost the 3rd and just got hammered with Sox Suck! Go back to Chicago. etc etc.

"Go back to (enter name of place)". Gee how original. :rolleyes:

I know many Rangers fans who are great baseball fans and great people.

Then there are the other fans who are bandwagon jumpers, who are high school football fans first. For me to describe them adequately would require a post in PI.

I would say back-to-back World Series chokes has made them pissy and bitter. I guess that's to be expected.

guillensdisciple
04-06-2012, 06:01 PM
Unfortunately, that Walkerball mentality is still probably fresh in the minds of most of them. It'll probably take awhile before it wears off completely. Manto needs some time to reach them and it might be easier said than done.

No no no no there is no damn walker ball mentality- if we suck at hitting this year are we going to blame walker for it again? Seriously, maybe it's our hitters? I am not panicking, but I think the sox invested in bad talent and are now reaping the benefits ( lack there of in this case).i think I am beginning to understand ranger, there are just a limited amount of things coaches can do. Ozzie needed to leave because he was bad for the motivation of the team which affected us mentally. That is gone now, if these players don't perform then it is on them not on the coaching staff.

GlassSox
04-06-2012, 06:22 PM
What I wouldn't give for another Nellie Fox or a 2005 version of Tadahito Iguchi.

Yes indeed.

Golden Sox
04-06-2012, 06:26 PM
Last year the team didn't win because it didn't hit. I'm hoping that todays game is not going to carry over through the rest of the season. No team looks good when there not hitting. I was bored watching the game today. It brought back painful memories of last year. Rios, Beckham and Morel looked awful. I realize that its only one game but I hope this isn't going to be a repeat from last year.

voodoochile
04-06-2012, 07:11 PM
Dunn hit a homer the Sox didn't look completely horrid. Pitching was solid and even Viciedo had a double.

Someone tell Brett it was just one game.

BainesHOF
04-06-2012, 07:17 PM
Nice pitching today. Dunne really jacked his homer. Rios scoring from first on a single was great.

We obviously need a No. 2 hitter.

Two people had no business being in a Major League game today -- Beckham and the home plate umpire.

sox1970
04-06-2012, 07:23 PM
Just go back to Beckham in the 2-hole and let him sink or swim this season.

De Aza
Beckham
Dunn
Konerko
Viciedo
Rios
Ramirez
Pierzynski
Morel

If Beckham stinks, give Escobar and Lillibridge more time.

MarksBrokenFoot
04-06-2012, 07:32 PM
The home plate ump was bad, but he didn't make De Aza swing at a ball that was going to hit his back foot. Our boys really stunk it up in the pitch selection department today. I know it's just one game, but if you can't learn to pick up the rotation on a slow loopy slider, it won't be any easier when the nasty pitchers start throwing them.

Frater Perdurabo
04-06-2012, 07:41 PM
No no no no there is no damn walker ball mentality- if we suck at hitting this year are we going to blame walker for it again? Seriously, maybe it's our hitters? I am not panicking, but I think the sox invested in bad talent and are now reaping the benefits ( lack there of in this case).i think I am beginning to understand ranger, there are just a limited amount of things coaches can do. Ozzie needed to leave because he was bad for the motivation of the team which affected us mentally. That is gone now, if these players don't perform then it is on them not on the coaching staff.

I don't think Walker was the sole cause of the hitting woes. He didn't help because he was part of the problem.

I think the root of the problem is the extent to which loyalty is valued in this organization, and more specifically the amount of influence Hawk has on JR.

The way to advance quickly in the Sox organization is to hit fastballs for power. Getting on base, hitting the other way, taking what the pitcher gives you to the opposite field to advance the runner, making adjustments to breaking pitches and off-speed junk, all of which come down to bat control, are not emphasized or valued. Hawk was a high power, high strikeout, low average, low OBP, low fundamentals hitter, and Hawk has had JR's ear for longer than anyone else. Hawk likes guys who were like him, and thus he has influenced who JR has hired into executive positions, who those executives have hired as coaches, and who the Sox have drafted and how they have been coached.

SephClone89
04-06-2012, 07:41 PM
Someone tell Brett it was just one game.

Brett who?

Dick Allen
04-06-2012, 08:04 PM
No major league umpire should have that much of an effect on a game. The balls and strikes calls are getting worse with each passing year.

LongLiveFisk
04-06-2012, 08:08 PM
No major league umpire should have that much of an effect on a game. The balls and strikes calls are getting worse with each passing year.

I didn't get to see the game today; did Hawk have a field day with that?

RCWHITESOX
04-06-2012, 08:15 PM
My god it was only one game and they lost 3-2 Tomorrow is another day with a win hopefully.After reading most of these posts you would have thought the Sox got beat 12-0 I guess I Am more of a optimist than most here

Jurr
04-06-2012, 08:20 PM
I didn't get to see the game today; did Hawk have a field day with that?

As per usual.

TDog
04-06-2012, 10:41 PM
Sox hitters looked over anxious in the early innings but the discipline got better in the second half of the game. The ump was calling a super wide plate. There were many questionable called strikes in big situations.

Nothing is as over analyzed as opening day games. Today could have gone either way. Texas caught a few breaks, Kinsler had a great game, and we couldn't get that big hit. Tomorrow is a new day.

You are right. Everything is amplified on opening day. Maybe today the Sox hitters were over anxious, but in the 2011 opener, the offense was clicking, probably as well as in any of the next 162 games. How did that work out?

mmmmmbeeer
04-06-2012, 11:06 PM
I didn't get to see the game today; did Hawk have a field day with that?


Stoney was just as vocal about the calls as Hawk which tells you just how bad that umpire was.

Brian26
04-06-2012, 11:27 PM
I didn't get to see the game today; did Hawk have a field day with that?

Contrary to popular belief, Hawk stopped bitching about the umpires several years ago, sometime after the Joe West/Mark Buehrle debacle. Was that early 2009? I'm pretty sure he was told to put a lid on it, and he has since then.

Brian26
04-06-2012, 11:28 PM
Just go back to Beckham in the 2-hole and let him sink or swim this season.

I'd say Beckham and Morel looked equally foolish chasing those breaking pitches on the outside of the plate today, so I'm not sure what you gain with the flip-flop in the order.

Brian26
04-06-2012, 11:32 PM
Nice pitching today. Dunne really jacked his homer. Rios scoring from first on a single was great.

Just finished watching the game on DVR. The Rios score from first with Super Joe waving him home was the best part of the game, slightly ahead of Dunn's bomb.

Both of these were slightly better than Alexei Ramirez running to 2nd base to force the invisible runner instead of covering third on the wheel-play bunt in the bottom of the 1st when Andrus sacrificed Kinsler. Still a little weak on the fundamentals.

Brian26
04-06-2012, 11:34 PM
Outside of the obvious most important stat, losing the game, was this one: the Sox were 0-for-7 with runners in scoring position.

Another frustrating stat, the Sox struck out to end an inning seven times today.

Brian26
04-06-2012, 11:37 PM
Then there are the other fans who are bandwagon jumpers, who are high school football fans first. For me to describe them adequately would require a post in PI.

The obvious question is where were these Ranger fans for the first 35 years of the franchise's existence?

WhiteSox5187
04-07-2012, 01:35 AM
Contrary to popular belief, Hawk stopped bitching about the umpires several years ago, sometime after the Joe West/Mark Buehrle debacle. Was that early 2009? I'm pretty sure he was told to put a lid on it, and he has since then.

I believe that that was in 2010 but there were PLENTY of games last year where I had to turn off the TV because of Hawk's bitching about the umpires.

hawkjt
04-07-2012, 02:17 AM
Last season,when they started using the strike zone box deal, Hawk clammed up for the most part about balls and strike calls because you cannot argue with the ball inside the box. I honestly think that is why they went to it,because fans were bitching about Hawks bitching.

They did not use it much in the game today,but as was said,Stoney was all over Mike Winters(who is a crappy home plate ump,period),as much as Hawk.

Between Winters bad calls,and our bad plate discipline, Lewis threw very few actual strikes and yet the Sox struck out 13 times. Shame really.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
04-07-2012, 04:27 AM
Since there isn't a PTC Winner thread, I'm going to post the season-opening TBGR (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=4&id=4224) here. I chose Dunn as the winner, because McEwing wasn't eligible.

sox1970
04-07-2012, 05:55 AM
I'd say Beckham and Morel looked equally foolish chasing those breaking pitches on the outside of the plate today, so I'm not sure what you gain with the flip-flop in the order.

I just don't like giving Morel a job to do, like getting a runner over. Beckham was always supposed to be a 2-hitter. I'd just put him there and let him succeed or fail for a month. If he doesn't figure it out, then Escobar and Lillibridge play more, and the Sox can look to get Beckham out of town.

vinny
04-07-2012, 07:53 AM
Since there isn't a PTC Winner thread, I'm going to post the season-opening TBGR (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=4&id=4224) here. I chose Dunn as the winner, because McEwing wasn't eligible.

Don't see the TBGR when I click on the link. :scratch:

kufram
04-07-2012, 08:00 AM
Although we had a lot of strikeouts we were still only a couple of productive outs away from matching arguably the best team in the AL.

It's only one game but Beckham and Morel need realistic, attainable goals to be met on offense (like putting the ball in play when it's all that is needed) to make a difference in a game like Friday's. Morel's defensive slip is just baseball... he won't kill us with his usual D

Zakath
04-07-2012, 08:40 AM
Just go back to Beckham in the 2-hole and let him sink or swim this season.


I'm not sure any team can survive having the 2 spot literally being a hole. That has to be one of your better hitters, someone who can lay off pitches allowing your lead-off man to steal, as well as being able to hit behind the runner and move him into scoring position.

Beckham has shown flashes of that, but they're too few and way too far between. AJ's actually the best person in that spot.

sox1970
04-07-2012, 08:46 AM
I'm not sure any team can survive having the 2 spot literally being a hole. That has to be one of your better hitters, someone who can lay off pitches allowing your lead-off man to steal, as well as being able to hit behind the runner and move him into scoring position.

Beckham has shown flashes of that, but they're too few and way too far between. AJ's actually the best person in that spot.

I guess, but I just want to see Beckham get a last chance in the spot he is supposed to be in by now. He had a decent last couple weeks in spring training. The way I look at it, the Sox have nothing to lose this year. Give Beckham 4 weeks in the 2-hole, and if he sucks, Escobar starts playing, and Beckham goes to Charlotte.

TomBradley72
04-07-2012, 09:08 AM
I like Lillibridge in the 2 hole- 4-5 days/week- rotate him around giving various guys their day off for the week (LF/RF/3B/2B/1B)- I'd prefer to see TCM in the 5 slot protecting PK- AJ moves down to 6.

I watched the game on TiVO- Morel's play was high hopper with top spin- I have a hard time blaming him- I thought they played an overall tight game- Morel and Beckham clearly over anxious (would have like to see Morel bunting over De Aza in the 1st- more of a small ball approach).

I still have a good feeling about the team- their attitude, their focus/energy, etc.- I think they'll be better than expected if they stay healthy.

Frater Perdurabo
04-07-2012, 09:29 AM
We need to get it out of our minds that the Sox are supposed to chase a playoff spot this year. Even PK said its possible to have a successful season without making the playoffs.

Yes, we want to win as many games as possible, but the overall objective for this year is to give Beckham, Morel, DeAza, Viciedo, Flowers, Reed, Santiago and Jones a year to improve at the MLB level. If at the end of the season we have a verdict on these 8 players, this will have been a successful season, even if we lose 90.

But if we go 80-82 by starting washed up vets like McPherson and Olmedo, and proven mediocre/limited platoon types like Lillibridge and Fukudome, this season will have been a waste.

hawkjt
04-07-2012, 09:53 AM
I like Lillibridge in the 2 hole- 4-5 days/week- rotate him around giving various guys their day off for the week (LF/RF/3B/2B/1B)- I'd prefer to see TCM in the 5 slot protecting PK- AJ moves down to 6.

I watched the game on TiVO- Morel's play was high hopper with top spin- I have a hard time blaming him- I thought they played an overall tight game- Morel and Beckham clearly over anxious (would have like to see Morel bunting over De Aza in the 1st- more of a small ball approach).

I still have a good feeling about the team- their attitude, their focus/energy, etc.- I think they'll be better than expected if they stay healthy.

The Rangers bunted over their lead-off double guy in the first,and scored.
Robin opted to not bunt over our lead-off double guy,Tank, in the 3rd,and he is stranded at second. I was surprised,as Beckham is a decent bunter and getting a tie at that point is a big deal for Danks and this young club.
I do not think Robin can play for the big inning with this team's shaky hitting.

fram40
04-07-2012, 11:17 AM
Although we had a lot of strikeouts we were still only a couple of productive outs away from matching arguably the best team in the AL.


Not so sure it's this simple. We need pitching to shut down the opposing team. Yet Danks allowed an immediate run in the first (five pitches) and allowed a run immediately (five pitches) after the Sox had rallied to tie the score. Obviously there was a failure to make a defensive play in the 6th, but Danks has to shoulder some of the blame.

Failure to execute in many game situations led to this loss. We've seen a lot of that the last few years.

Texas executes more often in game situations - that's why they are defending League champs two years running

kittle42
04-07-2012, 11:36 AM
My god it was only one game and they lost 3-2 Tomorrow is another day with a win hopefully.After reading most of these posts you would have thought the Sox got beat 12-0 I guess I Am more of a optimist than most here

Actually, this thread is really, really tame.

kittle42
04-07-2012, 11:38 AM
We need to get it out of our minds that the Sox are supposed to chase a playoff spot this year.

Somebody actually thinks that? They're in for a depressing year.

doublem23
04-07-2012, 11:46 AM
Actually, this thread is really, really tame.

Perhaps he's commenting on the overall defeatist attitude here right now in that nobody seems to be upset the Sox dropped a 1-run game they realistically could have won. In the past few years, these kinds of losses have drawn outrage, as opposed to a 12-run beating in which case what can you say but, "oh well, get 'em tomorrow?"

Everyone here is basically clapping and saying "good job!" to a MLB team that didn't win, but they tried super hard. It's like we're parents of a T-Ball team.

sox1970
04-07-2012, 11:50 AM
I'm giving this team 42 games. May 21st, if they're 16-26 and 8 games out, then it's over. This team really needs to be around 23-19 at that time to keep the hope alive I think.

If the wheels come off quick, we could see some trades made earlier than usual. Maybe early June to maximize returns.

Frater Perdurabo
04-07-2012, 11:52 AM
Somebody actually thinks that? They're in for a depressing year.

I don't think anyone has said as much, but to argue that Beckham or Morel (or any of the younger players) should be on a short leash is tantamount to the same thing. What possible purpose could yanking them upon struggling for a month or two possibly serve?

Unless the Yankees are willing to trade us A-Rod and Cano for Beckham and Morel, it's best just to stick with those two for the whole season in the hopes that they turn into solid major league hitters.

Frater Perdurabo
04-07-2012, 11:55 AM
Perhaps he's commenting on the overall defeatist attitude here right now in that nobody seems to be upset the Sox dropped a 1-run game they realistically could have won. In the past few years, these kinds of losses have drawn outrage, as opposed to a 12-run beating in which case what can you say but, "oh well, get 'em tomorrow?"

Everyone here is basically clapping and saying "good job!" to a MLB team that didn't win, but they tried super hard. It's like we're parents of a T-Ball team.

Small same size, but Robin didn't seem to make the same kind of stupid decisions Ozzie was prone to make. I personally would have bunted Viciedo to third, but I have no problem with allowing Bacon to try to drive him in during the middle innings of a close game.

MarySwiss
04-07-2012, 12:09 PM
I know this is not realistic, but not only do I expect the Sox to make the playoffs every year, I expect them to win the World Series every year. :cool:

Again, nobody expected them to do diddly-squat in 2005, either. After one loss--even though it was a game they could've/should've won--I see no reason to believe they're doomed to suck. :smile:

voodoochile
04-07-2012, 12:38 PM
Perhaps he's commenting on the overall defeatist attitude here right now in that nobody seems to be upset the Sox dropped a 1-run game they realistically could have won. In the past few years, these kinds of losses have drawn outrage, as opposed to a 12-run beating in which case what can you say but, "oh well, get 'em tomorrow?"

Everyone here is basically clapping and saying "good job!" to a MLB team that didn't win, but they tried super hard. It's like we're parents of a T-Ball team.

And the flip side of that is that it's the first game of the season and raging over a loss this early is kind of silly. In addition most people have a much lower expectation for this year's team than they did for last year's. So people are taking a wait and see approach. I imagine if this team is 0-10 with several disheartening losses you will start to see the boobirds come out.

Heck this is WSI 3 straight losses will cause the raging to increase exponentially.

TDog
04-07-2012, 12:44 PM
The Rangers bunted over their lead-off double guy in the first,and scored.
Robin opted to not bunt over our lead-off double guy,Tank, in the 3rd,and he is stranded at second. I was surprised,as Beckham is a decent bunter and getting a tie at that point is a big deal for Danks and this young club.
I do not think Robin can play for the big inning with this team's shaky hitting.

Odd, isn't it, that the Rangers, with all their offense, should bunt in he first when I read in WSI game threads about how stupid bunting is? The bunt later in the game was an attempt at a hit, not a sacrifice, but still, the team with the best offense in the league gave up an out before any of their hitters were retired this season. They made two outs after getting a runner into scoring position to start the season to push across the first run. (And had the Beltre struck out in the sixth instead of grounding out to Morel, the Rangers wouldn't have scored their third run.)

I don't believe in bunting runners over to third, unless you're bunting over the game-ending run. Fundamental baseball used to be hitting to the right side to move the runner over if you don't drive in the run. I think Tony LaRussa changed that, being the first manager I ever saw consistently bunting a team's leadoff double to third early in games with no score.

As it turned out, the White Sox did neither with their leadoff double. The hitters swung away and could hit the ball fair. Guillen would have been criticized had he bunted in that situation.

Maybe Ventura didn't want to play for one run. Maybe Beckham was supposed to be hitting to the right side and failed. If he had failed at bunting, some might say the manager is incompetent for asking him to do something he couldn't do. But he failed at swinging away.

Before long, the Sox will start playing every day, and opening day will stop being the entire season.

SCCWS
04-07-2012, 12:57 PM
Stoney was just as vocal about the calls as Hawk which tells you just how bad that umpire was.


Amazing how fans and announcers react. I saw the Ranger feed since it was televised nationally ( I am in Fla.) They showed the Pitch Zone at least 10-12 times. Their guys questioned a few Danks pitches that were called strikes and the replay showed they hit the edges. Late in the game, their color guy acknowledged that the home plate guy called a good game because the Pitch Zone was showing he was right on almost every pitch they showed.
They also questioned the Beckham pickoff where he was called safe but the replay did look like he was out. It didn't matter anyway as he was stranded.
Calls even out.

Daver
04-07-2012, 01:07 PM
Season is over already.

gobears1987
04-07-2012, 02:20 PM
I'm just going to say it, but maybe our hitters are just bad and Walker wasn't the problem.

gobears1987
04-07-2012, 02:24 PM
I also want to point out the way the Rangers gave up 2 outs in the 1st is how fundamental baseball should be played. The propeller heads can argue all they want, but the fact is that a sacrifice bunt and a sacrifice fly (2 outs) produced a crucial run in what was a one run game.

Anyone who wouldn't trade outs for a run is a fool. The team with the highest OBP isn't the team that wins. The team with the most runs scored does however win.

voodoochile
04-07-2012, 02:24 PM
I'm just going to say it, but maybe our hitters are just bad and Walker wasn't the problem.

And maybe we were just facing a topnotch pitcher who happens to be the best guy on the team that won the AL pennant last year...

kufram
04-07-2012, 02:29 PM
Not so sure it's this simple. We need pitching to shut down the opposing team. Yet Danks allowed an immediate run in the first (five pitches) and allowed a run immediately (five pitches) after the Sox had rallied to tie the score. Obviously there was a failure to make a defensive play in the 6th, but Danks has to shoulder some of the blame.

Failure to execute in many game situations led to this loss. We've seen a lot of that the last few years.

Texas executes more often in game situations - that's why they are defending League champs two years running

Our pitching allowed 3 runs. They did their job. Sure, I was disappointed that Danks "allowed" a run right after we rallied, but I'll take holding Texas to 3 runs in their house on opening day.

The difference was the failure to move the runner over when we had the chance. I'm not saying anyone should be blamed for the loss, I don't see the point in that.... it is a team game. The strikeouts were unhelpful, but that failure was the difference between the 2 teams on that day.

I hope we stick with the guys we've got and that Beckham and Morel come through with useful at bats... not monster numbers but ways to help the team win in situations like runner on second and no outs. Ok, I'll take monster numbers.

gobears1987
04-07-2012, 02:48 PM
And maybe we were just facing a topnotch pitcher who happens to be the best guy on the team that won the AL pennant last year...

Colby Lewis is hardly a topnotch pitcher. His career ERA is 4.97. He also led the league in homers given up last season.

kittle42
04-07-2012, 03:49 PM
Season is over already.

I thought it was over before it started, actually.

KMcMahon817
04-07-2012, 04:02 PM
I like Lillibridge in the 2 hole- 4-5 days/week- rotate him around giving various guys their day off for the week (LF/RF/3B/2B/1B)- I'd prefer to see TCM in the 5 slot protecting PK- AJ moves down to 6.

I watched the game on TiVO- Morel's play was high hopper with top spin- I have a hard time blaming him- I thought they played an overall tight game- Morel and Beckham clearly over anxious (would have like to see Morel bunting over De Aza in the 1st- more of a small ball approach).

I still have a good feeling about the team- their attitude, their focus/energy, etc.- I think they'll be better than expected if they stay healthy.

I am with you, man.

voodoochile
04-07-2012, 04:07 PM
Colby Lewis is hardly a topnotch pitcher. His career ERA is 4.97. He also led the league in homers given up last season.

Right and the last two years have been very solid. He didn't pitch n the majors 2008-2009 but last two years has posted a WHIP around 1.2 while averaging 8K/9IP and an ERA around 4.1.

Maybe topnotch is the wrong word, but he's clearly a good pitcher at least since coming back to the majors a few years ago.

Edit: And why did you choose to use such selective stats? Did you honestly think I wouldn't pull up his page and do some digging? Man I hate when people do that...

gobears1987
04-07-2012, 04:15 PM
Right and the last two years have been very solid. He didn't pitch n the majors 2008-2009 but last two years has posted a WHIP around 1.2 while averaging 8K/9IP and an ERA around 4.1.

Maybe topnotch is the wrong word, but he's clearly a good pitcher at least since coming back to the majors a few years ago.

Edit: And why did you choose to use such selective stats? Did you honestly think I wouldn't pull up his page and do some digging? Man I hate when people do that...

He had a good year 2 seasons ago, but overall he is an average pitcher. He's at best a 3-4 pitcher on most teams. I'd put him at the level of a Gavin Floyd. He's still the type of pitcher you need to and should get more than 2 runs off of.

His 4.40 ERA last season screams "average"

gobears1987
04-07-2012, 04:19 PM
One positive I will take away from the game was Adam Dunn. He had the type of performance I felt he should've had last season. A K, a BB, and a HR. I won't mind if he has his nearly 200 K's so long as he also has the BB's and HR's to go with them.