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View Full Version : Nardi "REASSIGNED"


duke of dorwood
07-22-2002, 02:02 PM
Don Cooper era begins-again-no one from the outside coming in.
This per Bruce Levine.
Nardi headed for the minors-OUCH

Jerry_Manuel
07-22-2002, 02:06 PM
No surprise that Cooper got the job.

Sounds like Nardi has a few more years left on his contract. Otherwise, he would've been launched out of the organization.

alohafri
07-22-2002, 02:07 PM
Great, now he can screw up our pitchers at an even younger age. Maybe this is part of the Chairman's master plan...destroy baseball by destroying young arms.

34 Inch Stick
07-22-2002, 02:08 PM
With three starters ERA's over 5 and a fourth one on the way this can't be suprising. Nardi must realize there aren't too many more jobs out there for him if he took the minor league demotion. Do we really want him anywhere near our young arms? Maybe he can bring about the return of Parque.

Keystone Combo
07-22-2002, 02:15 PM
No surprise here......... Cooper has been with the White Sox for awhile now and it was projected when he came up to "help out" that he would probably be in line for the job and Nardi should beware!

Now White Sox fans it is our turn to beware again because I see no major improvement here even though some improvement would be better than no improvement.

Now how about the base coaches (Johnson & Petitt) shouldn't they be gone too. Maybe they will go next so Jerry is safe for awhile longer. What a joke we are again. Couldn't find anybody out there that would be a better pitching coach than Cooper. Why does everything Reinsdorf does always deal with money and not with winning baseball. Disappointed is not the word, glad Nardi is gone but not happy with the choice of replacement.

Jerry_Manuel
07-22-2002, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Nardi must realize there aren't too many more jobs out there for him if he took the minor league demotion.

He really didn't have a choice.

If he wants to get paid he has to do what they want him to. If he tries to be a hard ass and quit then he doesn't get paid.

duke of dorwood
07-22-2002, 02:20 PM
:butter

My savior has come

dougs78
07-22-2002, 02:22 PM
He really didn't have a choice. If he wants to get paid he has to do what they want him to. If he tries to be a hard ass and quit then he doesn't get paid.

I believe that was his point Jerry. If he had other job opportunities, then he could quit and take those jobs. Instead, since no one else would hire him, he had to take the demotion.

Jerry_Manuel
07-22-2002, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by dougs78
I believe that was his point Jerry. If he had other job opportunities, then he could quit and take those jobs. Instead, since no one else would hire him, he had to take the demotion.

Ah, I'm slow.

Thanks, Dougs.

dougs78
07-22-2002, 02:29 PM
no, problem...i do what i can. :D:

hold2dibber
07-22-2002, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by Keystone Combo
No surprise here......... Cooper has been with the White Sox for awhile now and it was projected when he came up to "help out" that he would probably be in line for the job and Nardi should beware!

Now White Sox fans it is our turn to beware again because I see no major improvement here even though some improvement would be better than no improvement.

Now how about the base coaches (Johnson & Petitt) shouldn't they be gone too. Maybe they will go next so Jerry is safe for awhile longer. What a joke we are again. Couldn't find anybody out there that would be a better pitching coach than Cooper. Why does everything Reinsdorf does always deal with money and not with winning baseball. Disappointed is not the word, glad Nardi is gone but not happy with the choice of replacement.

I honestly don't think money is what motivates these repeated "hirings from within". I think JR acts out of an obsessive and mis-placed sense of loyalty. I think he believes in loyalty above all else, and he therefore promotes those already in the organization instead of bringing in "outsiders" whenever possible. The problem with this is (1) if the people within the organization are not qualified, we get to suffer through "on the job training"; and (2) you don't get enough "fresh" thinking from outside of the organization. Why be loyal to employees that have brought you a total of 3 play off wins in 20-some years? I don't know much about Cooper, but my guess is his primary qualification was that he's been a good White Sox soldier for awhile. Not the most qualified, just the next in line.

Paulwny
07-22-2002, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


I honestly don't think money is what motivates these repeated "hirings from within". I think JR acts out of an obsessive and mis-placed sense of loyalty. I think he believes in loyalty above all else, and he therefore promotes those already in the organization instead of bringing in "outsiders" whenever possible. The problem with this is (1) if the people within the organization are not qualified, we get to suffer through "on the job training"; and (2) you don't get enough "fresh" thinking from outside of the organization. Why be loyal to employees that have brought you a total of 3 play off wins in 20-some years? I don't know much about Cooper, but my guess is his primary qualification was that he's been a good White Sox soldier for awhile. Not the most qualified, just the next in line.

You got it, good post !!

Dadawg_77
07-22-2002, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


I honestly don't think money is what motivates these repeated "hirings from within". I think JR acts out of an obsessive and mis-placed sense of loyalty. I think he believes in loyalty above all else, and he therefore promotes those already in the organization instead of bringing in "outsiders" whenever possible. The problem with this is (1) if the people within the organization are not qualified, we get to suffer through "on the job training"; and (2) you don't get enough "fresh" thinking from outside of the organization. Why be loyal to employees that have brought you a total of 3 play off wins in 20-some years? I don't know much about Cooper, but my guess is his primary qualification was that he's been a good White Sox soldier for awhile. Not the most qualified, just the next in line.

I think this is more the reason why Nardi is still on the payroll, but maybe thats why they promoted Cooper.

DrCrawdad
07-22-2002, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


I honestly don't think money is what motivates these repeated "hirings from within". I think JR acts out of an obsessive and mis-placed sense of loyalty. I think he believes in loyalty above all else, and he therefore promotes those already in the organization instead of bringing in "outsiders" whenever possible. The problem with this is (1) if the people within the organization are not qualified, we get to suffer through "on the job training"; and (2) you don't get enough "fresh" thinking from outside of the organization.

I think you're right about Reinsdorf. I believe he's loyal, loyal to a fault.

That said though, in a way I do respect Reinsdorf for his loyalty to his people, even though it may have hurt the Sox on occasion.

I know one of the Sox coaches in the minor league system. This coach has only ever said good things about Reinsdorf, even before he was brought back into the Sox organization a few years ago.

Reinsdorf has certainly done many things I disagree with in his tenure as lead owner of the Sox. However, it is too bad though that the good things that Reinsdorf does usually go without notice.

-DrCrawdad.

duke of dorwood
07-22-2002, 02:52 PM
Loyal is an excuse for the cheap way out, too.

Jerry_Manuel
07-22-2002, 03:01 PM
White Sox.Com Story (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20020722&content_id=87094&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp)

The fallout from a disappointing season got under way Monday as the White Sox replaced pitching coach Nardi Contreras for the remainder of the season with Don Cooper, the team's minor-league pitching coordinator.

Cooper, who has been traveling with the team the entire season, has been with the Sox organization for 15 years and was also the interim pitching coach for a two-month stint in 1995.

I wonder if they have plans for someone else after the season.

Randar68
07-22-2002, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
White Sox.Com Story (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20020722&content_id=87094&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp)



I wonder if they have plans for someone else after the season.

"Tommy, can you hear me!"

andytheclown
07-22-2002, 03:18 PM
I do not understand why anyone would have fault with Cooper taking over. We have acquired many pitching prospects that have made it to the majors. Others have had great careers in the minors, but could not make it the majors, even though they looked like can't miss!

Maybe the failures in the past were because of the tutulage these pitchers received after Cooper had them. Just because someone works within the organization does not make them "loyalty hires".

This guy worked with many of the young guys we have now. He should know their strengths and weaknessness better than anyone.

Also, just because he assisted Nardi does not mean he was part of the problem. clashing with your boss is a good way to get fired.

One more thing. In all sports, very rarely do you see quality organizations firing a coach midseason and replacing him with a long term solution halfway through the year. There are many more options after the season is over. By hiring someone now, you can miss out on better prospects that become available later.

duke of dorwood
07-22-2002, 03:23 PM
:ritchie :keith

His work is cut out for him

soxtalker
07-22-2002, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by andytheclown
I do not understand why anyone would have fault with Cooper taking over. We have acquired many pitching prospects that have made it to the majors. Others have had great careers in the minors, but could not make it the majors, even though they looked like can't miss!

Maybe the failures in the past were because of the tutulage these pitchers received after Cooper had them. Just because someone works within the organization does not make them "loyalty hires".

This guy worked with many of the young guys we have now. He should know their strengths and weaknessness better than anyone.

Also, just because he assisted Nardi does not mean he was part of the problem. clashing with your boss is a good way to get fired.

One more thing. In all sports, very rarely do you see quality organizations firing a coach midseason and replacing him with a long term solution halfway through the year. There are many more options after the season is over. By hiring someone now, you can miss out on better prospects that become available later.

I agree with this interpretation. It really looks like Cooper may just be serving as an interim pitching coach much as he did a few years ago. Also, unless I missed it, it doesn't sound like the Nardi's position in the minors has been specified yet. I'd hope that there is something positive he can do (though, like most fans on this board, I'm hard pressed to figure out what that is).

PaleHoseGeorge
07-22-2002, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker


I agree with this interpretation. It really looks like Cooper may just be serving as an interim pitching coach much as he did a few years ago. Also, unless I missed it, it doesn't sound like the Nardi's position in the minors has been specified yet. I'd hope that there is something positive he can do (though, like most fans on this board, I'm hard pressed to figure out what that is).

You want Nardi's new job specified? His new job description looks something like this.

"We have to pay you, so do something constructive for the organization. First, find a new job. Quickly. Do whatever you have to, but please find another job as quickly as possible. Getting you off the payroll is our #1 priority.

"While you're still drawing a paycheck, our other big expectation is to keep you as far away as possible from doing any real harm to our organization. You may get a call from us from time to time to go do some advanced scouting on somebody else's player. Other than that, stay at home and near a phone."

Does that sum it up pretty well?

:gulp:

Dadawg_77
07-22-2002, 04:29 PM
Maybe head pitching coordinator of the minor system. From what has been said, the guy is very organized and such. So an administrative job might be where he can help out the most. It could use his strengths and miminizing one on one interaction with the players, which seems to be his weakness.

DrCrawdad
07-22-2002, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


"Tommy, can you hear me!"

Assuming that you are referring to Tommy John.

I've heard Tommy on the radio talking about the Sox and their pitching philosophy. From what I've heard hiring Tommy would represent a major change in philosophy for the Sox organization.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-22-2002, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Maybe head pitching coordinator of the minor system. From what has been said, the guy is very organized and such. So an administrative job might be where he can help out the most. It could use his strengths and miminizing one on one interaction with the players, which seems to be his weakness.

Yeah. Nardi knows precisely what size rubber band to hold together all his 3x5 index cards, and he never forgets to bring his stopwatch with him to the ballpark, either. :smile:

Somehow I'm thinking the one-on-one interaction is even more important for a coordinator's job--especially when managing a staff spread out across several states. It's not like he's going to be holding team meetings or anything.

Daver
07-22-2002, 04:38 PM
May I note that this is Don Cooper's second time for being the White Sox pitching coach,he was the pitching coach for about three months in the middle of ,I beleive,the 95 season,and stepped down at his request,I doubt he is a permanent replacement.

rmusacch
07-22-2002, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad


Assuming that you are referring to Tommy John.

I've heard Tommy on the radio talking about the Sox and their pitching philosophy. From what I've heard hiring Tommy would represent a major change in philosophy for the Sox organization.

And that is a bad thing? Is Tommy employed in the Sox organization?

Randar68
07-22-2002, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch


And that is a bad thing? Is Tommy employed in the Sox organization?

No, he's employed by the Expos as a minor league coach. However, I have a hard time believing they wouldn't let him go if he was offered an MLB job.

Chisox353014
07-22-2002, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Sounds like Nardi has a few more years left on his contract. Otherwise, he would've been launched out of the organization.

They could launch him into orbit and he still wouldn't be far enough away from the Sox organization in my book.

Jerry_Manuel
07-22-2002, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
No, he's employed by the Expos as a minor league coach. However, I have a hard time believing they wouldn't let him go if he was offered an MLB job.

What are the chances that they'll offer him the job?

Procol Harum
07-22-2002, 04:51 PM
CHARLOTTE ANNOUNCES NEW TEAM NAME
IN HONOR OF CONTRERAS

(AP) CHARLOTTE. The Charlotte Knights, Triple-A affiliate of the Chicago White Sox have announced that they have re-named their team in honor of the imminent arrival of Nardi Contreras, former White Sox pitching coach. The team will now be called the Charlotte Torn Labrums; team colors and basic uniform designs will remain the same.

Contreras was demoted to Charlotte after a spectacularly ineffectual career in which he became known for destroying the arms of the hurlers in his care, many of whom developed a tear in the labrum muscle group of their throwing arms--an almost unheard-of arm injury among baseball players. "Man, those arms were droppin' off left and right last season," chuckled Chicago General Manager, Kenny Williams, "You could've tracked our pitchers by the trail of body parts they left behind."

Williams noted that while White Sox pitching had been less injury-prone under Contreras' tutelage this season, it had actually been less effective than last year. Particularly noticeable this season has been the stunningly high ratio between Contreras' mound visits and next pitch frozen rope singles, and towering home runs. "Jeez, we were taking bets in the Press Box everytime he strolled out to the mound" Williams said, "Rob Gallas has been killin' us all, yelling 'Take cover!' out the window."

Charlotte is believed to be the first team in minor league history to be named after an arm injury.

Daver
07-22-2002, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


What are the chances that they'll offer him the job?

Seeing that they let him walk away from the organization in the first place I would say slim and none.

DrCrawdad
07-22-2002, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch


And that is a bad thing? Is Tommy employed in the Sox organization?

No, a change would be good. But I'd expect that a radical change would be difficult for the Sox to do.

From what I've heard of Tommy, he downplays the radar gun and looks for success regardless of the radar gun numbers. Tommy's said the Sox have fallen in love of the radar gun.

IIRC the example that Tommy pointed to was Chad Bradford. Tommy said that the Sox were not enamored with Bradford because he doesn't throw exceptionally hard. But TJ pointed to the success that Chad had in the minors. In case you missed it Chad is doing well with A's, with a 1 something ERA.

- DrCrawdad.

Randar68
07-22-2002, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad


No, a change would be good. But I'd expect that a radical change would be difficult for the Sox to do.

From what I've heard of Tommy, he downplays the radar gun and looks for success regardless of the radar gun numbers. Tommy's said the Sox have fallen in love of the radar gun.


For the record, I have only ever heard Tommy say anything about scouts in general in terms of the radar gun. IMO, the Sox are one of the better teams in baseball at giving softer tossers a real chance.

Tommy being the head or scouting or a regional director would be one thing. As a pitching coach, you don't really have the absolute power to change a drafting/signing philosophy. However, the guys down on the farm aways loved him...

Chisox_cali
07-22-2002, 05:52 PM
Yahoo! (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news/ap/20020722/ap-whitesox-contreras.html) says "fired" not reassigned. Just a mistake or something else, hmmmmm....

Foulke You
07-22-2002, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
Don Cooper era begins-again-no one from the outside coming in.
This per Bruce Levine.
Nardi headed for the minors-OUCH


How about this guy for pitching coach...
:bionic

I guess this tag is now officially retired! :D:
:firenardi

Randar68
07-22-2002, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You

I guess this tag is now officially retired! :D:
:firenardi

Bring on the "Fire Gary" banners...this clean-out is like watching bugs eat a carcass...