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View Full Version : What's up with the baserunning?


Ol Aches & Pains
07-21-2002, 07:10 PM
Apparently, Royce Clayton gets on base so infrequently that when he does get on, he doesn't know what to do. In last night's fourteen inning disaster, he was picked off first, and thrown out at third by the catcher on a bunt in front of the plate. Ordonez, usually a heads-up player, was picked off of second in the ninth inning, or the game might have been over in regulation time. Today, Frank Thomas was thrown out trying to go to third on a ground ball to the shortstop! Would it kill these guys to concentrate on the game during the game, instead of the strike deadline or whatever the hell they're thinking about?

Daver
07-21-2002, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Ol Aches & Pains
Apparently, Royce Clayton gets on base so infrequently that when he does get on, he doesn't know what to do. In last night's fourteen inning disaster, he was picked off first, and thrown out at third by the catcher on a bunt in front of the plate. Ordonez, usually a heads-up player, was picked off of second in the ninth inning, or the game might have been over in regulation time. Today, Frank Thomas was thrown out trying to go to third on a ground ball to the shortstop! Would it kill these guys to concentrate on the game during the game, instead of the strike deadline or whatever the hell they're thinking about?

So you are saying that it is all the fault of the players and Wallace Johnson and Gary Pettis are doing a good job?

Ol Aches & Pains
07-21-2002, 07:20 PM
This is the big leagues, Thomas and Clayton are ten + year veterans. Does Frank Thomas really need to be told not to try to go from 2nd to 3rd on a ground ball in front of him to the shortstop? For $11 million a year, shouldn't he know that? What do we need, a 2nd base coach?

Daver
07-21-2002, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by Ol Aches & Pains
This is the big leagues, Thomas and Clayton are ten + year veterans. Does Frank Thomas really need to be told not to try to go from 2nd to 3rd on a ground ball in front of him to the shortstop? For $11 million a year, shouldn't he know that? What do we need, a 2nd base coach?

You didn't answer the question.

And Frank has always been terrible on the basepaths.

Kilroy
07-21-2002, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by Ol Aches & Pains
... and thrown out at third by the catcher on a bunt in front of the plate.

How was that Royce's fault?? Two players have a job on that play. Royce has to get to third, and the hitter has to make the 3rd baseman field the ball. If Lofton had done his job, Royce would have been in at third no problem.

I don't know about any of you guys, but Lofton was making me sick giving himself up with his bunt attempts yesterday. He's got a sore knee and he's trying to beat out bunts??

Ol Aches & Pains
07-21-2002, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by daver


You didn't answer the question.

And Frank has always been terrible on the basepaths.


No, I didn't say Johnson and Pettis were doing a good or bad job,
I'm saying a player who has been in the major leagues over ten years should be sufficiently acquainted with the fundamentals of base running that these things wouldn't happen. If Thomas has always been terrible on the bases, he should work on improving that aspect of his game. If you want to say Johnson and Pettis bear some responsibility for ensuring that that happens, I won't disagree with you.

Ol Aches & Pains
07-21-2002, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy


How was that Royce's fault?? Two players have a job on that play. Royce has to get to third, and the hitter has to make the 3rd baseman field the ball. If Lofton had done his job, Royce would have been in at third no problem.



Well, maybe I was a little hard on Royce, but only because I love him.

Daver
07-21-2002, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by Ol Aches & Pains



No, I didn't say Johnson and Pettis were doing a good or bad job,
I'm saying a player who has been in the major leagues over ten years should be sufficiently acquainted with the fundamentals of base running that these things wouldn't happen. If Thomas has always been terrible on the bases, he should work on improving that aspect of his game. If you want to say Johnson and Pettis bear some responsibility for ensuring that that happens, I won't disagree with you.

The only aspect of Frank's game that I would want him to work on right now is getting his swing back to normal,cause when he is swinging the bat the way he should no one cares what his baserunning is like.

For what it is worth the only two guys on the team that are good baserunners are Lofton and Valentin,and I blame that on Pettis,who was brought up here specifically to improve baserunning,it has gotten worse since he has been here.

NUKE_CLEVELAND
07-21-2002, 08:11 PM
It's pretty clear that baseball is NOT the first thing on the Sox minds these days. Maybe they're thinking about getting some good golf in come this october before the cold weather sets in.

Ol Aches & Pains
07-21-2002, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by daver


The only aspect of Frank's game that I would want him to work on right now is getting his swing back to normal,cause when he is swinging the bat the way he should no one cares what his baserunning is like.



Actually, I care. I'm old fashioned enough to believe that for $11 million a year, you should get something approximating a complete ballplayer. Thomas is a one dimensional player who doesn't even have one dimension at this point. And I'm really tired of his crybaby act. :whiner:

Daver
07-21-2002, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by Ol Aches & Pains


Actually, I care. I'm old fashioned enough to believe that for $11 million a year, you should get something approximating a complete ballplayer.

I agree with you,but there are very few complete ballplayers anymore.

oldcomiskey
07-21-2002, 08:36 PM
that is such a good point daver--I mean look at Sosa--all hit---Bonds the same way---Vlad has trouble on fly balls as well----who is the most complete ballplayer today.....I dont know but Ill bet Maggs is in the top 5 overall.... Im talking about five tool here...

Daver
07-21-2002, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
that is such a good point daver--I mean look at Sosa--all hit---Bonds the same way---Vlad has trouble on fly balls as well----who is the most complete ballplayer today.....I dont know but Ill bet Maggs is in the top 5 overall.... Im talking about five tool here...

Bonds at one time was a complete ballplayer,his age just caught up with him.

Kilroy
07-21-2002, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
that is such a good point daver--I mean look at Sosa--all hit---Bonds the same way---Vlad has trouble on fly balls as well----who is the most complete ballplayer today.....I dont know but Ill bet Maggs is in the top 5 overall.... Im talking about five tool here...

Ichiro? Hits, runs, throws, fields his position. That's pretty complete. No power tho...

Ol Aches & Pains
07-21-2002, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy


Ichiro? Hits, runs, throws, fields his position. That's pretty complete. No power tho...

Ichiro did hit two homers in a game the other day. He may only be a 4 1/2 tool player, but damn, he's fun to watch. One of the few who are worth the price of admission.

Torii Hunter and Andruw Jones are very close to being 5 tool players. In another couple of years, you're going to see people doing Mantle/Mays type comparisons with them, if baseball is still played on these shores.

Daver
07-21-2002, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Ol Aches & Pains




Torii Hunter and Andruw Jones are very close to being 5 tool players. In another couple of years, you're going to see people doing Mantle/Mays type comparisons with them, if baseball is still played on these shores.


In a couple of years they'll be talking about a White Sox outfeilder in those terms,just give it time.

Keystone Combo
07-22-2002, 02:15 AM
11 million dollars Frank makes now was earned after about 8 of the best seasons by any player in history. He has had only one bad season and the following year he should of been the AL MVP.

Last year the guy had a ripped tricep muscle....... for pete's sake Ol Aches and Pains........ that was a pretty darn bad injury, he needs time to come back just like Mo Vaughn.

About the baserunning........... that has been going on all year or haven't you been watching Carlos Lee run or try to run the bases?

The entire coaching staff is too laid back and has no fire in their bellies. Remember the 50s and 60s....... forget it, this is the oughts and all athletes have attitutes and free agency to fall back on. Thank you Curt Flood.

Ol Aches & Pains
07-22-2002, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by Keystone Combo
11 million dollars Frank makes now was earned after about 8 of the best seasons by any player in history. He has had only one bad season and the following year he should of been the AL MVP.

Last year the guy had a ripped tricep muscle....... for pete's sake Ol Aches and Pains........ that was a pretty darn bad injury, he needs time to come back just like Mo Vaughn.




I had a lot of good years on my job, too. but if I was having a year like Frank Thomas is having, would they keep me around? Not bloody likely! And I make a lot less than $11 million. Frank Thomas is not earning his salary, he's whining about being benched after going 0 for 31 or whatever it was, and now they're going out on strike? Please.

Iguana775
07-22-2002, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by daver


Bonds at one time was a complete ballplayer,his age just caught up with him.

he still has the bat, running, fielding for an old guy. anyone remember that trade that some sports writer brought up a few years ago to trade frank for bonds?? i bet most of us would do that now.

Iguana775
07-22-2002, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by Keystone Combo
11 million dollars Frank makes now was earned after about 8 of the best seasons by any player in history. He has had only one bad season and the following year he should of been the AL MVP.

Last year the guy had a ripped tricep muscle....... for pete's sake Ol Aches and Pains........ that was a pretty darn bad injury, he needs time to come back just like Mo Vaughn.

About the baserunning........... that has been going on all year or haven't you been watching Carlos Lee run or try to run the bases?

The entire coaching staff is too laid back and has no fire in their bellies. Remember the 50s and 60s....... forget it, this is the oughts and all athletes have attitutes and free agency to fall back on. Thank you Curt Flood.

i dont care if they are professional, they still are human and humans need to keep in practice in order to do something well. and this is where the coaches come in to play. they have to get the players to practice the fundamentals of the game each and every day. and the sox coaches have proven that they can not do this. period!

Dadawg_77
07-22-2002, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Ol Aches & Pains



I had a lot of good years on my job, too. but if I was having a year like Frank Thomas is having, would they keep me around? Not bloody likely! And I make a lot less than $11 million. Frank Thomas is not earning his salary, he's whining about being benched after going 0 for 31 or whatever it was, and now they're going out on strike? Please.

no offense meant here, but you (we) are probably lot easier to replace then it is for the Sox to replace Frank Thomas.

Jerry_Manuel
07-22-2002, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Iguana775
anyone remember that trade that some sports writer brought up a few years ago to trade frank for bonds?? i bet most of us would do that now.

My memory might be fuzzy, but they had a shot on Bonds when they signed Belle.

They were both free agents at the time, Reinsdorf asked Thomas who he wanted, and of course picked Belle. At least thats' the way I remember the events.

Iguana775
07-22-2002, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


My memory might be fuzzy, but they had a shot on Bonds when they signed Belle.

They were both free agents at the time, Reinsdorf asked Thomas who he wanted, and of course picked Belle. At least thats' the way I remember the events.

that was a seperate event. this was right after the 2000 season. it wasnt really a trade that was being considered or rumored. just some writer giving his thoughts of a good trade.

Jerry_Manuel
07-22-2002, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by Iguana775
that was a seperate event. this was right after the 2000 season. it wasnt really a trade that was being considered or rumored. just some writer giving his thoughts of a good trade.

I understand.

Just another "what if" situation with the Sox.

Keystone Combo
07-22-2002, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


My memory might be fuzzy, but they had a shot on Bonds when they signed Belle.

They were both free agents at the time, Reinsdorf asked Thomas who he wanted, and of course picked Belle. At least thats' the way I remember the events.


Even if Frank did want Albert "Joey" Belle why would you blame Frank for the deal. You think he had the final say in the deal, I don't think so and it is unfair to blame Frank for it. I'm sure you wouldn't have given Frank the credit if it had worked. This is nonsense this kind of bashing of Thomas by Sox fans. He is entitled to voice his opinion if he is asked or isn't asked but the accquisition was made by Jerry Reinsdorf and Ron Schueler.

Jerry_Manuel
07-22-2002, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Keystone Combo
Even if Frank did want Albert "Joey" Belle why would you blame Frank for the deal. You think he had the final say in the deal, I don't think so and it is unfair to blame Frank for it. I'm sure you wouldn't have given Frank the credit if it had worked. This is nonsense this kind of bashing of Thomas by Sox fans. He is entitled to voice his opinion if he is asked or isn't asked but the accquisition was made by Jerry Reinsdorf and Ron Schueler.

Calm down there governor. I'm not blaming Frank Thomas for the Albert Belle signing. Iggy brought up a situation that could've netted the Sox Bonds, I was just explaning that they had a chance to sign Bonds. They didn't, no big deal.