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View Full Version : Camelback Ranch Profits Down 65% in Two Years


Viva Medias B's
02-17-2012, 11:47 PM
According to the Los Angeles Times, profits at Camelback Ranch spring training have fallen 65% over two years. This was disclosed in U.S. Bankruptcy Court related to the Los Angeles Dodgers bankruptcy case. Much of the revenue decline is attributed to fewer Dodgers fans attending their team's game at Camelback Ranch. White Sox patronage at Camelback Ranch has been steady from the beginning.

Link (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dodgers/2012/02/profit-at-dodgers-spring-home-drops-65-in-two-years.html)

MUsoxfan
02-17-2012, 11:51 PM
Ticket prices are crazy expensive. The Yankees have cheaper tickets

Viva Medias B's
02-17-2012, 11:53 PM
Ticket prices are crazy expensive. The Yankees have cheaper tickets

The article says Camelback Ranch lowered them for 2012.

KRS1
02-18-2012, 12:00 AM
Glendale is only a fun trip for me when coupled with a Yotes game. Those soon will be gone and I will be going there less and less. Given, it's better than Tucson for me, but the majority of my Sox games attended are in the east valley. Hopefully the light rail extends out there sooner than the 2017 date expected after the record ridership it saw this year.

skobabe8
02-18-2012, 10:48 AM
These are dark days for Dodger fans. Yikes.

sox1970
02-18-2012, 11:16 AM
I don't think it's a coincidence that the Dodgers and Sox are the last teams to report. Probably cutting some costs at Camelback Ranch.

MarySwiss
02-18-2012, 11:18 AM
Glendale is only a fun trip for me when coupled with a Yotes game. Those soon will be gone and I will be going there less and less. Given, it's better than Tucson for me, but the majority of my Sox games attended are in the east valley. Hopefully the light rail extends out there sooner than the 2017 date expected after the record ridership it saw this year.
For me living in Chandler, it's kind of a wash. True, the actual distance is shorter, but the drive down to Tucson is 75 mph a good bit of the way, and there's generally less congestion on I-10. Plus Camelback is expensive. I like watching games at Tempe Diablo much better; it's more of a friendly park, plus it's easier to get in and out of.

Sargeant79
02-18-2012, 08:28 PM
For me living in Chandler, it's kind of a wash. True, the actual distance is shorter, but the drive down to Tucson is 75 mph a good bit of the way, and there's generally less congestion on I-10. Plus Camelback is expensive. I like watching games at Tempe Diablo much better; it's more of a friendly park, plus it's easier to get in and out of.

I'm pretty centrally located in Phoenix. It's about a 35 minute drive for me to get to Camelback Ranch where I'm at (no expressways), and the same or less to most East Valley locations with expressways. I'll probably take in just as many road games as home games this spring.

MarySwiss
02-18-2012, 11:09 PM
I'm pretty centrally located in Phoenix. It's about a 35 minute drive for me to get to Camelback Ranch where I'm at (no expressways), and the same or less to most East Valley locations with expressways. I'll probably take in just as many road games as home games this spring.
A few years ago, there was talk about the Angels moving to a new location and the Sox moving into Tempe Diablo. Didn't happen, but it would have been sweet!

Fenway
02-19-2012, 07:53 AM
At least two of the suitors for the Dodgers are telling fans they will move spring training back to Vero Beach. Camelback is a Frank McCourt scheme and new owners will do anything to erase Frank's memory.

People in LA do not want to vacation in Phoenix, it has all the same hassles that LA has.

Cleveland wants to move back to Florida and the Brewers are looking at options.

The White Sox had a good situation in Sarasota but because JR lives in Arizona they moved leaving behind heartbroken retired people from Chicago on the Suncoast.

Southwest Florida is one of three markets that the White Sox do well on WGN America. The other 2 are Indianapolis and Buffalo. By comparison in Phoenix the Cubs sometimes get a bigger rating than the D-Backs, the White Sox don't register at all.

Arizona is becoming a giant headache for MLB because of immigration issues. The folks that live there know what I am saying.

AZChiSoxFan
02-20-2012, 03:33 PM
At least two of the suitors for the Dodgers are telling fans they will move spring training back to Vero Beach. Camelback is a Frank McCourt scheme and new owners will do anything to erase Frank's memory.

People in LA do not want to vacation in Phoenix, it has all the same hassles that LA has.

Cleveland wants to move back to Florida and the Brewers are looking at options.

The White Sox had a good situation in Sarasota but because JR lives in Arizona they moved leaving behind heartbroken retired people from Chicago on the Suncoast.

Southwest Florida is one of three markets that the White Sox do well on WGN America. The other 2 are Indianapolis and Buffalo. By comparison in Phoenix the Cubs sometimes get a bigger rating than the D-Backs, the White Sox don't register at all.

Arizona is becoming a giant headache for MLB because of immigration issues. The folks that live there know what I am saying.

:rolleyes:

10-15 years ago, there was serious belief that the Cactus League might die out. Now, it has the same number of teams as the grapefruit league. In 2011 for ST attendance, 6 of the top 9 teams were from the Cactus League.

We should all be so lucky to have such a "headache".

Viva Medias B's
02-20-2012, 03:54 PM
:rolleyes:

10-15 years ago, there was serious belief that the Cactus League might die out. Now, it has the same number of teams as the grapefruit league. In 2011 for ST attendance, 6 of the top 9 teams were from the Cactus League.

We should all be so lucky to have such a "headache".

The Cactus League would have become extinct had it not been for the efforts for former Arizona Gov. Rose Mofford. She pushed through measures that eventually lured Grapefruit League teams, like the White Sox, to move to Arizona.

TDog
02-20-2012, 04:40 PM
The Cactus League would have become extinct had it not been for the efforts for former Arizona Gov. Rose Mofford. She pushed through measures that eventually lured Grapefruit League teams, like the White Sox, to move to Arizona.

This is very true. I talked with Rose about her plans to fight to keep the Cactus League alive after walking with her on a tour of a new prison south of Yuma, and getting them passed required a lot of work on her part. Ironically, the first team to take advantage of the Cactus League incentives was the Padres, which left Yuma for Maricopa County, but almost two decades later, the Cactus League is at least as strong as the Grapefruit League.

Not to be political (because this is a historical rather than a political observation), but one has to wonder how the history of major league baseball would be different if the Arizona Legislature had not impeached Rose Mofford's predecessor to elevate the longtime secretary of state into a partial term as governor. I spent time talking with both Evan Mecham and Rose Mofford, and while Rose was a former softball player who believed spring training baseball was important to the state, Ev believed professional sports should get no breaks whatsoever. He even said he didn't want the Super Bowl to come to Arizona because of the additional money it would cost the state to keep order.

Fenway
02-20-2012, 08:59 PM
:rolleyes:

10-15 years ago, there was serious belief that the Cactus League might die out. Now, it has the same number of teams as the grapefruit league. In 2011 for ST attendance, 6 of the top 9 teams were from the Cactus League.

We should all be so lucky to have such a "headache".

MLB is very nervous that another version of Senate Bill 1070 will happen in your state. I will not discuss the politics involved but with the huge number Latin Americans ballplayers involved it is a headache.

Danryan
02-20-2012, 09:05 PM
Personally I would prefer the return to Florida. I would definitely travel to the gulf coast rather than Az.

AZChiSoxFan
02-20-2012, 11:42 PM
The Cactus League would have become extinct had it not been for the efforts for former Arizona Gov. Rose Mofford. She pushed through measures that eventually lured Grapefruit League teams, like the White Sox, to move to Arizona.

Actually, it was Arizona Senate Bill 1220, which was signed by Gov Jane Dee Hull that created the AZ Sports and Tourism Authority, that funded the construction and renovation of many stadiums in the Cactus league.

AZChiSoxFan
02-20-2012, 11:46 PM
MLB is very nervous that another version of Senate Bill 1070 will happen in your state. I will not discuss the politics involved but with the huge number Latin Americans ballplayers involved it is a headache.

When certain people tried to persuade Selig to pull the all star game from Phx last summer, Bud didn't seem too nervous.

AZChiSoxFan
02-20-2012, 11:47 PM
This is very true. I talked with Rose about her plans to fight to keep the Cactus League alive after walking with her on a tour of a new prison south of Yuma, and getting them passed required a lot of work on her part. Ironically, the first team to take advantage of the Cactus League incentives was the Padres, which left Yuma for Maricopa County, but almost two decades later, the Cactus League is at least as strong as the Grapefruit League.

Not to be political (because this is a historical rather than a political observation), but one has to wonder how the history of major league baseball would be different if the Arizona Legislature had not impeached Rose Mofford's predecessor to elevate the longtime secretary of state into a partial term as governor. I spent time talking with both Evan Mecham and Rose Mofford, and while Rose was a former softball player who believed spring training baseball was important to the state, Ev believed professional sports should get no breaks whatsoever. He even said he didn't want the Super Bowl to come to Arizona because of the additional money it would cost the state to keep order.

Not really sure what you're refering to. It was the TSA (no, not THAT TSA :smile:), which was created in the year 2000 that really saved the CL. Mofford left office in 1991.

TDog
02-21-2012, 12:05 AM
Not really sure what you're refering to. It was the TSA (no, not THAT TSA :smile:), which was created in the year 2000 that really saved the CL. Mofford left office in 1991.

Without the efforts of Rose Mofford, the Cactus League would have been history by 2000.

AZChiSoxFan
02-21-2012, 06:04 PM
Without the efforts of Rose Mofford, the Cactus League would have been history by 2000.

OK, fine.

And without the efforts of Jane Dee Hull and the legislature, it would have been toast at some point after 2000. Bottom line, a lot of people get credit for the current day success of the CL.

Fenway
02-21-2012, 06:31 PM
Peter O'Malley says if his group wins the bidding he will move the team back to Vero Beach. Turns out Frank put an escape clause in the contract if the team was ever sold.

O'Malley happens to be running the Vero Beach facility today.

TDog
02-21-2012, 06:41 PM
OK, fine.

And without the efforts of Jane Dee Hull and the legislature, it would have been toast at some point after 2000. Bottom line, a lot of people get credit for the current day success of the CL.

I said I didn't want to make this political, and I sense that my historical analysis offends you politically.

The original point I was responding to was in agreement with Viva, which I thought was astute. The Indians had left Arizona for Florida. Other teams were talking about leaving. As more teams talked about leaving, it forced other teams to consider it because fewer teams would have meant a less viable league. People in the state didn't want to build new complexes to accomodate "millionaire baseball players." Rose Mofford, who never had any desire to be governor, was thrust into office and spearheaded an effort to turn that around. The White Sox, of course, moved to Arizona before 2000. Many of the lawmakers who started out as being against helping the Cactus League were turned around and became supporters of it.

Since 1999 when I moved from Arizona, I have only been to the state for one or two weeks a year. But when I moved, the Cactus League was just as healthy as the Grapefruit League. What the state has done since has been to assure that it stays that way.

Even without the 2000 legislation, I imagine there would still be a Cactus League.

AZChiSoxFan
02-21-2012, 09:47 PM
I said I didn't want to make this political, and I sense that my historical analysis offends you politically.

The original point I was responding to was in agreement with Viva, which I thought was astute. The Indians had left Arizona for Florida. Other teams were talking about leaving. As more teams talked about leaving, it forced other teams to consider it because fewer teams would have meant a less viable league. People in the state didn't want to build new complexes to accomodate "millionaire baseball players." Rose Mofford, who never had any desire to be governor, was thrust into office and spearheaded an effort to turn that around. The White Sox, of course, moved to Arizona before 2000. Many of the lawmakers who started out as being against helping the Cactus League were turned around and became supporters of it.

Since 1999 when I moved from Arizona, I have only been to the state for one or two weeks a year. But when I moved, the Cactus League was just as healthy as the Grapefruit League. What the state has done since has been to assure that it stays that way.

Even without the 2000 legislation, I imagine there would still be a Cactus League.

I'll take your last point first. It's possible, although without a doubt, it wouldn't have 15 teams. The 2000 legislation specifically funded the Surprise, Glendale, and Goodyear stadiums that are home to 6 of the teams. The legislation also helped with the refurbishment of some of the other facilities, that kept those teams here.

To your first point, no it did not offend me in the least. As you probably know, Rose Mofford hails from the thriving metropolis of Globe/Miami, AZ. My wife was born there, as were her parents and her grandmother. Up until my wife's grandparents passed away a few years back, they got a Christmas card every year from Rose Mofford. She's a wonderful person that I have great respect for.

AZChiSoxFan
02-21-2012, 10:23 PM
Peter O'Malley says if his group wins the bidding he will move the team back to Vero Beach. Turns out Frank put an escape clause in the contract if the team was ever sold.

O'Malley happens to be running the Vero Beach facility today.

Wow, quite interesting.

TDog
02-21-2012, 10:26 PM
I'll take your last point first. It's possible, although without a doubt, it wouldn't have 15 teams. The 2000 legislation specifically funded the Surprise, Glendale, and Goodyear stadiums that are home to 6 of the teams. The legislation also helped with the refurbishment of some of the other facilities, that kept those teams here.

To your first point, no it did not offend me in the least. As you probably know, Rose Mofford hails from the thriving metropolis of Globe/Miami, AZ. My wife was born there, as were her parents and her grandmother. Up until my wife's grandparents passed away a few years back, they got a Christmas card every year from Rose Mofford. She's a wonderful person that I have great respect for.

Rose's Christmas cards were special and inclusion on her Christmas card list was treasured. Of course, if the Glendale, Surprise and Goodyear weren't funded, that doesn't mean the teams who train there would be training in Florida. The White Sox probably would still be in Arizona. Maybe they wouldn't be in Tucson. Maybe they would be in Tempe, making March much more enjoyable for MarySwiss.

I have been told the Dodgers set the ticket prices in Glendale, which is the biggest problem there, if you have no problem with them being out so far west. The prices for spring exhibitions are ridiculously high, but they seem high all over. I prefer the old days of the Cactus League, where local civic organizations hosted teams for a month and charged a fraction of major league prices for games in intimate settings. Yuma was great for Padres fans because the spring ballpark was only a couple of interstate hours from San Diego. And if you lived in Yuma and could get the afternoon off, a day in the sunshine watching Tony Gwynn and company for a couple of dollars was quite the experience. All of that changed in the 1990s, of course, in part because of the competition between Arizona and Florida. I'm sure people who don't care about baseball resent what communities do to hang on to their spring teams.

Fenway
02-21-2012, 10:39 PM
The prices for spring exhibitions are ridiculously high, but they seem high all over.

How does Arizona compare to this?

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/spring_training/tickets.jsp?c_id=bos

Viva Medias B's
02-21-2012, 10:46 PM
Actually, it was Arizona Senate Bill 1220, which was signed by Gov Jane Dee Hull that created the AZ Sports and Tourism Authority, that funded the construction and renovation of many stadiums in the Cactus league.

Didn't this also kill Tucson's spring training industry?

AZChiSoxFan
02-23-2012, 12:54 PM
Didn't this also kill Tucson's spring training industry?

The AZ TSA was for Maricopa County, so I see where you are going with your question. But I would make this analogy to your point. If Steve's pizza is a place with sub-par pizza, and Joe's pizza opens up and has great pizza, some would say, "Well, Joe's killed Steve's pizza." No, Steve's sub-par pizza is what killed Steve's.

Yes, brand new stadiums in Maricopa County sure didn't help out Tucson. But if ST was that important to Tucson, then they should have refurbished Hi Corbett and maybe built a third stadium and tried to get 6 teams to train in Tucson (that's just a wild plan off the top of my head). The three treams that trained down there hated the daily 2-3 hour (one way) bus rides to play the rest of the teams in the league, and there was really no way around that.