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Fenway
02-17-2012, 11:10 AM
:tiphat:

http://www.nesn.com/2012/02/tim-wakefield-to-announce-retirement-after-19-seasons-in-major-leagues.html

Marqhead
02-17-2012, 11:18 AM
Always liked Mr. Wakefield. Who knows how long until another true knucklerballer is as successful as he was.

doublem23
02-17-2012, 11:27 AM
Thanks for that meatball you left over the plate for Konerko in Game 3 of the ALDS

I'm also pretty sure that Aaron Rowand is lighting a candle somewhere in your memory.

Fenway
02-17-2012, 11:31 AM
Thanks for that meatball you left over the plate for Konerko in Game 3 of the ALDS

I'm also pretty sure that Aaron Rowand is lighting a candle somewhere in your memory.

:whiner:

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2005/10/07/1128723852_8811.jpg

TheOldRoman
02-17-2012, 12:24 PM
I never had an issue with him until after the 2005 ALDS. The Red Sox got their asses handed to them in a sweep, and then he whined how the better team didn't win and the White Sox weren't that good. He can blow it out his ass.

russ99
02-17-2012, 01:34 PM
Always liked Mr. Wakefield. Who knows how long until another true knucklerballer is as successful as he was.

Agreed. Always fun to see him pitch, since it was 50-50 if he could be dominant or very hittable.

Kind of surprised the Red Sox didn't bring him back for one more year.

Can't believe people carry a grudge about him for 2005 - news flash: we won!

BleacherBandit
02-17-2012, 01:45 PM
Dickey's the only knuckleballer in the league now?

downstairs
02-17-2012, 03:21 PM
Dickey's the only knuckleballer in the league now?

According to Wiki, yes.

TheOldRoman
02-17-2012, 03:21 PM
Agreed. Always fun to see him pitch, since it was 50-50 if he could be dominant or very hittable.

Kind of surprised the Red Sox didn't bring him back for one more year.

Can't believe people carry a grudge about him for 2005 - news flash: we won!I don't carry a grudge as in I wish him ill will, I just thought it was a pouty dick move.

Fenway
02-17-2012, 03:34 PM
I never had an issue with him until after the 2005 ALDS. The Red Sox got their asses handed to them in a sweep, and then he whined how the better team didn't win and the White Sox weren't that good. He can blow it out his ass.

OH COME ON - What he said was correct in some regards.

While praising the White Sox, Wakefield added that a short series does not always favor the better team, that luck and chances often factor into the result.

"I don't know," he said. "I think they're a real good baseball team, but I think we're better. Sometimes it's not just the best team that wins, but the hot team. We hit a lot of balls right on the button, but right to people. But then they got some of the breaks they needed, and that's what happens. It's just unfortunate that it had to end this way."

gobears1987
02-17-2012, 03:34 PM
I will always remember him for serving up 3 pitches that resulted in homers for Frank in a single game.

doublem23
02-17-2012, 03:42 PM
OH COME ON - What he said was correct in some regards.

If by some regards you me none, then yes, that is correct. Anyone who would think that the White Sox weren't the better team in that series is a sore ****ing loser with clam chowder pouring out his ears. The Sox pounded Boston in Game 1, won Game 2 because they blinked first, and then, I'm sorry, you can whine about luck and all that **** like a spoiled 2-year-old all you want, but when you have the bases loaded and none out, and you can't even get a ball out of the infield, I'm sorry, you don't deserve to win.

Marqhead
02-17-2012, 03:42 PM
Fenway, your quote from Wakefield summarizes the entire game of baseball. Sour grapes from Timmy.

Fenway
02-17-2012, 03:50 PM
Fenway, your quote from Wakefield summarizes the entire game of baseball. Sour grapes from Timmy.

Take everything in context - He was blaming himself more than anything.

. "It was me," he said. "I made one bad pitch. I made that one mistake and that was the difference in the ballgame today. They scored a couple of runs in the third. They hit some balls into holes. You have to tip your hat to them. I made the mistake to Konerko . . . What other word can you use but disappointed. To battle your butts off to get to the postseason, and then lose three to the White Sox of course its disappointing."

The key to that series was this
http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Graphic/2005/10/08/1128781232_1996.jpg

PatK
02-17-2012, 03:52 PM
If by some regards you me none, then yes, that is correct. Anyone who would think that the White Sox weren't the better team in that series is a sore ****ing loser with clam chowder pouring out his ears. The Sox pounded Boston in Game 1, won Game 2 because they blinked first, and then, I'm sorry, you can whine about luck and all that **** like a spoiled 2-year-old all you want, but when you have the bases loaded and none out, and you can't even get a ball out of the infield, I'm sorry, you don't deserve to win.

Last time I checked, the WhiteSox had the most wins in the AL that year, so the better team did win,

doublem23
02-17-2012, 04:07 PM
The key to that series was this
http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Graphic/2005/10/08/1128781232_1996.jpg

Oh my god, go **** off. The game swung at that moment. Here's a news flash: Even if your boys come back and win Game 3, they're still down 2-1 and our pitching staff ran circles around yours. Game 4 and 5 would have been either Garland, Contreras or Buehrle, all of whom were marvelous in 2005 and even better in the postseason. Who exactly would the Sawx have started? Bronson Arroyo? Matt Clement, who got treated like a punching bag in Game 1? ****ty Curt Schilling? Tim Wakefield and his "woe is us" crap is ****ing bull****, the White Sox were the better team in 2005 and proved it by kicking the **** out of the Red Sox on the field. If you want to talk about undeserving teams winning short series when they shouldn't, then you'd better be willing to talk about the 2004 ALCS when the Sawx had no business beating the much better Yankees, but did anyway. Can't have it both ways.

johnnyg83
02-17-2012, 04:11 PM
Oh my god, go **** off. The game swung at that moment. Here's a news flash: Even if your boys come back and win Game 3, they're still down 2-1 and our pitching staff ran circles around yours. Game 4 and 5 would have been either Garland, Contreras or Buehrle, all of whom were marvelous in 2005 and even better in the postseason. Who exactly would the Sawx have started? Bronson Arroyo? Matt Clement, who got treated like a punching bag in Game 1? ****ty Curt Schilling? Tim Wakefield and his "woe is us" crap is ****ing bull****, the White Sox were the better team in 2005 and proved it by kicking the **** out of the Red Sox on the field. If you want to talk about undeserving teams winning short series when they shouldn't, then you'd better be willing to talk about the 2004 ALCS when the Sawx had no business beating the much better Yankees, but did anyway. Can't have it both ways.

I don't always like what you say, but when I do. :bandance:

Fenway
02-17-2012, 04:18 PM
Game 4 would have been 4 or 5 days later as the Northeast was pounded by a storm similar to the 75 series. It would have been Schilling and Wells for Boston.

soltrain21
02-17-2012, 04:46 PM
Hey, does everyone remember when the White Sox swept the **** out of the Red Sox in 2005? I do. It was awesome.

http://i.imgur.com/Kc7VN.gif

Lip Man 1
02-17-2012, 05:22 PM
Well said Double. **** the Red Sox and the horse they road in on (and that includes the ******* Chris Berman).

The White Sox were the better team in 2005...deal with it Boston.

Lip

Marqhead
02-17-2012, 05:35 PM
Oh what I would give for a gif of Iguchi taking Wells deep.

Fenway
02-17-2012, 05:41 PM
Oh what I would give for a gif of Iguchi taking Wells deep.

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2005/10/05/1128565121_3560.jpg
http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2005/10/06/1128601575_9994.jpg

Fenway
02-17-2012, 06:52 PM
Wakefield lost it making the announcement

Tim Wakefield makes his announcement (VIDEO) (http://www.csnne.com/pages/v11_videodetail?PID=uvXM2-35KWSSxUft8NtB0BK_mCU526_Iu996S9)

chisoxjtrain
02-17-2012, 07:02 PM
Oh my god, go **** off. The game swung at that moment. Here's a news flash: Even if your boys come back and win Game 3, they're still down 2-1 and our pitching staff ran circles around yours. Game 4 and 5 would have been either Garland, Contreras or Buehrle, all of whom were marvelous in 2005 and even better in the postseason. Who exactly would the Sawx have started? Bronson Arroyo? Matt Clement, who got treated like a punching bag in Game 1? ****ty Curt Schilling? Tim Wakefield and his "woe is us" crap is ****ing bull****, the White Sox were the better team in 2005 and proved it by kicking the **** out of the Red Sox on the field. If you want to talk about undeserving teams winning short series when they shouldn't, then you'd better be willing to talk about the 2004 ALCS when the Sawx had no business beating the much better Yankees, but did anyway. Can't have it both ways.

http://randomgifs.com/images/clap.gif


Can I nominate this for Post of the Week/Month/Year? Seriously, great post. I'm so sick of Boston thinking they are better than everyone else.

2005 final standings:
White Sox: 99-63
Red Sox: 95-67

2005 ALDS:
White Sox 3-Boston 0

The better team won and Boston can go **** themselves.

doublem23
02-17-2012, 07:39 PM
Game 4 would have been 4 or 5 days later as the Northeast was pounded by a storm similar to the 75 series. It would have been Schilling and Wells for Boston.

Yeah and that means it would have been Contreras and Buehrle for us. Advantage - Not Boston

Bobby Thigpen
02-17-2012, 07:45 PM
Who gives a ****?

It was 7 years ago.

Have a good retirement Tim.

TDog
02-17-2012, 09:50 PM
OH COME ON - What he said was correct in some regards.

The Red Sox didn't win any games. The Red Sox didn't hit well enough to win. They didn't pitch well enough to win. They didn't field well enough to win. Their losing the series could be attributed to bad pitching when they needed good pitching, bad defense when they needed routine defense and bad offense when all they needed to do to tie their elimination game late at home was hit the ball out of the infield.

I fail to see where the Red Sox, other than on some peoples' paper somewhere or in Tim Wakefield's mind, comprised the better team in 2005.

Andy T Clown
02-17-2012, 10:04 PM
Great pitcher, nice career. Wish we had him in his best days. What he said at any point is the same type of thing anyone may say after a loss when they are angry. I may dislike players when they beat us but I respect their abilities.

TheVulture
02-17-2012, 10:47 PM
I fail to see where the Red Sox, other than on some peoples' paper somewhere or in Tim Wakefield's mind, comprised the better team in 2005.

You can't argue with wire to wire followed by 11-1. Well, you can, but you can't argue it and be right, unfortunately for Wakefield.

Fenway
02-17-2012, 11:10 PM
You can't argue with wire to wire followed by 11-1. Well, you can, but you can't argue it and be right, unfortunately for Wakefield.

Can we take what he said in context? He made a couple of bad pitches and blamed himself for the Red Sox being eliminated.

I am sure that I can go back to 1983 and find similar White Sox quotes about Baltimore.

No Red Sox player in the past 15 years as done more for the hospitals and other charities. He always comes when asked.

DSpivack
02-17-2012, 11:48 PM
Can we take what he said in context? He made a couple of bad pitches and blamed himself for the Red Sox being eliminated.

I am sure that I can go back to 1983 and find similar White Sox quotes about Baltimore.

No Red Sox player in the past 15 years as done more for the hospitals and other charities. He always comes when asked.

And I don't see anyone here saying that Wakefield is a bad human being, just that he was wrong in regards to a quote from his team getting swept out of the first round 7 years ago.

As for Wakefield, sad to see him go. I love knuckleballers.

doublem23
02-18-2012, 01:13 AM
Can we take what he said in context? He made a couple of bad pitches and blamed himself for the Red Sox being eliminated.

I am sure that I can go back to 1983 and find similar White Sox quotes about Baltimore.

No Red Sox player in the past 15 years as done more for the hospitals and other charities. He always comes when asked.

Nobody is saying anything bad about Wakefield the man. I'll agree with others, I'll miss him, too; hate seeing knuckleballers continue the slow march to extinction. And I'm even willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that in the heat of the moment, after they got embarrassed and swept out of the playoffs, and still waiting for that beachball he lobbed to Konerko to land somewhere in Vermont, he made some dumb comments out of his ass. Not the first time it's happened, certainly not the last. But there is no ****ing way, with 6 years of hindsight, that anyone can dare come to these boards and try and talk down to us and even suggest the remote possibly that the Sawx should have won that ALDS. Could they have? Of course, crazy **** happens all the time in the MLB Playoffs. The White Sox were clearly the best team over the entire regular season and come playoff time, we slapped your boys around like a bunch of little bitches. We were better. We deserved to win. Case ****ing closed.

Fenway
02-18-2012, 01:49 AM
Nobody is saying anything bad about Wakefield the man. I'll agree with others, I'll miss him, too; hate seeing knuckleballers continue the slow march to extinction. And I'm even willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that in the heat of the moment, after they got embarrassed and swept out of the playoffs, and still waiting for that beachball he lobbed to Konerko to land somewhere in Vermont, he made some dumb comments out of his ass. Not the first time it's happened, certainly not the last. But there is no ****ing way, with 6 years of hindsight, that anyone can dare come to these boards and try and talk down to us and even suggest the remote possibly that the Sawx should have won that ALDS. Could they have? Of course, crazy **** happens all the time in the MLB Playoffs. The White Sox were clearly the best team over the entire regular season and come playoff time, we slapped your boys around like a bunch of little bitches. We were better. We deserved to win. Case ****ing closed.

This is a classic barroom debate.

All I have ever said that IF Boston won (Game 3) they 'could' have won the series. But they didn't. Keep in mind that particular group of Red Sox players had come back from the dead in 2003 vs Oakland and 2004 vs the Yankees.

I did not leave Fenway Park that Friday evening heartbroken. My posts back then will prove that.

Of course Wakefield was upset. He had he misfortune of Gradygate in 2003, and in 2004 took one for the team in Game 3 of the ALCS that the Yankees won 19-8. Game 3 in 2005 he had a chance to do something positive and it wasn't meant to be.

The man is third in all time wins as a Red Sox pitcher and had a chance to be #1. The 2 guys ahead of him? Roger Clemens and Cy Young ( tied at 192 )

Most Boston fans were very happy when the White Sox won in 2005.
Boston Globe cartoon
http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/10.27_FG_White-Sox.jpg

johnnyg83
02-18-2012, 02:08 AM
This is a classic barroom debate.

All I have ever said that IF Boston won (Game 3) they 'could' have won the series. But they didn't. Keep in mind that particular group of Red Sox players had come back from the dead in 2003 vs Oakland and 2004 vs the Yankees.

I did not leave Fenway Park that Friday evening heartbroken. My posts back then will prove that.

Of course Wakefield was upset. He had he misfortune of Gradygate in 2003, and in 2004 took one for the team in Game 3 of the ALCS that the Yankees won 19-8. Game 3 in 2005 he had a chance to do something positive and it wasn't meant to be.

The man is third in all time wins as a Red Sox pitcher and had a chance to be #1. The 2 guys ahead of him? Roger Clemens and Cy Young ( tied at 192 )

Most Boston fans were very happy when the White Sox won in 2005.
Boston Globe cartoon


The issue isn't Wakefield's career or whether Boston fans felt good for the White Sox, the issue to get quoted that you're a better team than the competition to belittle them and to help you cope with your failure.

It's the sign of a bad loser. And maybe he was that at the time, maybe he wasn't. And he could not have known the way the Sox would dominate that whole postseason after and including that series.

But I wish him the best and don't hold it against him even a little. It's tough to lose a playoff series. But talk of the RedSox being a better team than the White Sox in 2005 is ****ing ridiculous.

Fenway
02-18-2012, 02:38 AM
The issue isn't Wakefield's career or whether Boston fans felt good for the White Sox, the issue to get quoted that you're a better team than the competition to belittle them and to help you cope with your failure.

It's the sign of a bad loser. And maybe he was that at the time, maybe he wasn't. And he could not have known the way the Sox would dominate that whole postseason after and including that series.

But I wish him the best and don't hold it against him even a little. It's tough to lose a playoff series. But talk of the RedSox being a better team than the White Sox in 2005 is ****ing ridiculous.

Better? No ( but very, very close )

There were FIVE good teams in the AL in 2005 ( Bos, NYY, CWS, Clev and Anaheim) - and with the unbalanced schedule it makes things even harder to sort out.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/2005.shtml

Bos and NYY had Tampa Bay to feast on but Chicago and Cleveland has Kansas City.

Boston and Chicago met 10 times in 2005 and finished 5-5.

Now in friendly banter will you concede that the Red Sox went into that ALDS with a huge pitching problem simply because they had to either win the division or wild-card and Cleveland was still in play that final weekend.

Matt Clement was not someone you wanted pitching Game 1 and we later found out he got drunk at the Cubbie Bear the night before the game.

Games 2 and 3 were tight but won by Chicago. :gulp:

All I will say is the bottom of the sixth at Fenway in Game 3 of the 2005 ALDS was the most important inning in modern White Sox history.

johnnyg83
02-18-2012, 09:57 AM
You keep redefining what we're talking about.

I'm not saying Boston wasn't a good team. I'm not talking about their pitching or their pennant race.

I'm talking about Wakefield's sour grapes quote.

If you want to bar talk debate whether the White Sox were the better team in 2005, I think that's another thread that I'd be happy to participate in.

asindc
02-18-2012, 09:57 AM
Who gives a ****?

It was 7 years ago.

Have a good retirement Tim.

Many of us Sox fans give a ****. **** anyone who comes here and tries to imply that the Sox weren't the better team that year. I generally like Fenway's posts, but on this score he is flat out wrong.

As for Mr. Wakefield, congrats to him on his retirement and successful career.

voodoochile
02-18-2012, 10:52 AM
Sorry Fenway you gonna come to WSI and defend a team the Sox spanked hard 7 years ago in a playoff series you gonna get pounded. That's the way it is...

Totally Biased!
Utterly Petty!
Completely unobjective!

Your team got wrecked, period.

Fenway
02-18-2012, 11:17 AM
Sorry Fenway you gonna come to WSI and defend a team the Sox spanked hard 7 years ago in a playoff series you gonna get pounded. That's the way it is...

Totally Biased!
Utterly Petty!
Completely unobjective!

Your team got wrecked, period.

:whiteflag:

Foulke You
02-18-2012, 11:19 AM
Most Boston fans were very happy when the White Sox won in 2005.
Boston Globe cartoon

The Boston fans were the only ones that didn't whine (other than the Graffanino error) during and after the series. Most of the ones I encountered wished us well in the postseason. I'm sure it didn't sting quite as bad since they were coming off their World Series win in 2004. The Angels fans whined and complained about the umpiring somehow costing them the ALCS completely ignored the 4 straight complete games. The Astros fans whined and complained about the roof being open at Minute Maid Park and that somehow they would have beaten us if they got to play indoors.

I liked Tim Wakefield and hate to see another knuckleball pitcher go away. It's a dying breed. As far as the other debate, the White Sox were clearly a team with superior pitching in 2005 which is why we won it. Our rotation and bullpen couldn't be touched. Boston had a great lineup in '05 but their starting staff was nowhere near as good as ours that year. Schilling was banged up, Wells was old, Clement was awful in the second half, and Wakefield was always on or off. It simply couldn't compare to what we were trotting out there that season. Another noteworthy thing from that year is that the Red Sox made the postseason in 2005 largely due to the White Sox sweeping away the Indians in the final series of the year.

doublem23
02-18-2012, 12:47 PM
All I will say is the bottom of the sixth at Fenway in Game 3 of the 2005 ALDS was the most important inning in modern White Sox history.

That was certainly one of the more dramatic moments of the year, but I disagree it was the most important of even the series. That distinction I would give to the 5th inning of Game 2. The Red Sox were up 4-0 and cruising and I can believe that had Graffanino not let that ball roll through his legs (oooooooooooooh no!) and had Tadahito not hit that HR, the Red Sox definitely had some life, tied at 1 with 2 to play at Fenway, that's still a series. Winning Game 2, IMO, sealed that series. I know you'll tell me how this Red Sox team was comeback kids and they came back on the A's in 2003 and the Yankees in 2004, but I don't believe that has any real bearing on that series, esepcially not more than the White Sox being a clearly superior team.

soltrain21
02-18-2012, 01:03 PM
Ninth inning of game 2 in the ALCS was more important than anything that happened in the Boston series.

doublem23
02-18-2012, 01:04 PM
Ninth inning of game 2 in the ALCS was more important than anything that happened in the Boston series.

:yup:

TheVulture
02-18-2012, 05:14 PM
:whiteflag:
You should just make that your signature, it would make things easier around here.