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Brian26
07-19-2002, 11:29 PM
Ray-Ray with a meaningless dinger in the 8th tonight to pad his stats. Clayton's been pulling the same trick all year (and his stats suck overall anyway).

Durham's numbers don't look too bad from afar. Yet, anyone who's followed this team all year knows Durham hasn't had a big hit in weeks when it counted. I wish there was a way to quantify offensive stats that actually occur when they mean something. Even guys who have high averages with runners in scoring position (i.e. Jose), that doesn't tell the whole story. Those hits may be coming when we're down by 6 runs.

Anyone else notice how Clayton and Durham constantly get garbage time hits but can't get a hit to save their lives when it counts?

NUKE_CLEVELAND
07-19-2002, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Ray-Ray with a meaningless dinger in the 8th tonight to pad his stats. Clayton's been pulling the same trick all year (and his stats suck overall anyway).

Durham's numbers don't look too bad from afar. Yet, anyone who's followed this team all year knows Durham hasn't had a big hit in weeks when it counted. I wish there was a way to quantify offensive stats that actually occur when they mean something. Even guys who have high averages with runners in scoring position (i.e. Jose), that doesn't tell the whole story. Those hits may be coming when we're down by 6 runs.

Anyone else notice how Clayton and Durham constantly get garbage time hits but can't get a hit to save their lives when it counts?

I think most of the team falls into the same category as thost two.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-19-2002, 11:34 PM
Hey, whaddya mean by "garbage time"?

And while you're at it, help us with the meaning of "clutch hit", too. We've been discussing it for hours and now there are about 20 different definitions floating around here.

:)

NUKE_CLEVELAND
07-19-2002, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Hey, whaddya mean by "garbage time"?

And while you're at it, help us with the meaning of "clutch hit", too. We've been discussing it for hours and now there are about 20 different definitions floating around here.

:)

I posted the two "official" definitions of clutch a bit earlier.

MisterB
07-19-2002, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Ray-Ray with a meaningless dinger in the 8th tonight to pad his stats.

That's impossible! Everybody knows that when Ray tries to hit a homer, he flies out to the warning track. It musta been a fluke.

Tragg
07-19-2002, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Ray-Ray with a meaningless dinger in the 8th tonight to pad his stats. Clayton's been pulling the same trick all year (and his stats suck overall anyway).



That's fine - keep padding them, Ray. You, plus strike aversion, are the only hope we have about getting some hungry young talent on this club to patch some glaring weaknesses.

And please, whatever you think of Durham, he does not deserve to be put in the same category of Royce Clayton.

LongDistanceFan
07-19-2002, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND


I posted the two "official" definitions of clutch a bit earlier. but it wasn't fair when you control the definition. :whiner: :D:

bc2k
07-20-2002, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
Ray-Ray with a meaningless dinger in the 8th tonight to pad his stats. Clayton's been pulling the same trick all year (and his stats suck overall anyway).

Durham's numbers don't look too bad from afar. Yet, anyone who's followed this team all year knows Durham hasn't had a big hit in weeks when it counted. I wish there was a way to quantify offensive stats that actually occur when they mean something. Even guys who have high averages with runners in scoring position (i.e. Jose), that doesn't tell the whole story. Those hits may be coming when we're down by 6 runs.

Anyone else notice how Clayton and Durham constantly get garbage time hits but can't get a hit to save their lives when it counts?

You're right Brian. When the game was relatively close Durham struck out and hit into a ground ball double play. That must be his 13th of the year. He struck out on a belt high fastball over the plate because of his long, slow swing.

Durham constantly grounds into double plays, strikes out a lot, leads the league in errors for his position, and when he does hit, he does it in garbage time.

Oh, and he's good friends with Thomas. Can you say contageous?

BuehrleACE56
07-20-2002, 02:06 AM
while it sucks for the team, Ray padding his numbers is a good thing. it makes him worth more. his hitting or not won't stop our sinking ship. he needs to look like real good trade bait. the only bad thing would be if he padded his numbers and somehow tricked K Willy into dishing out the big bucks and re-signing him. although i am very sure that wont happen, at least not logically, but you never know with williams.

baggio202
07-20-2002, 04:19 PM
i looked up some numbers on durham
he is hitting :

278 with RISP
556 with the bases loaded
308 in late innings of close games

obviously ray is doing a lot better than he is getting credit for in this thread...it took us almost 30 years after nellie fox left to find a long term 2nd baseman in durham...since '96 (not counting '02) durham has played in no less than 151 games a season..averaging about 155...

who is gonna replace that.... willie harris??...tim hummell??...neither guy is doing any better than ray right now..and they are at charlotte so what makes you guys think they will be any better up here???

bc2k
07-21-2002, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by baggio202
i looked up some numbers on durham
he is hitting :

278 with RISP
556 with the bases loaded
308 in late innings of close games

obviously ray is doing a lot better than he is getting credit for in this thread...it took us almost 30 years after nellie fox left to find a long term 2nd baseman in durham...since '96 (not counting '02) durham has played in no less than 151 games a season..averaging about 155...

who is gonna replace that.... willie harris??...tim hummell??...neither guy is doing any better than ray right now..and they are at charlotte so what makes you guys think they will be any better up here???

To answer your question, I don't think Harris or Hummell would put up better numbers in 2003 than the ones you mentioned. But I would prefer to see a player with weaker offensive stats than Ray that plays fundamental baseball. Someone that also has a higher cieling than Ray.

I want to see a second baseman that can go to his right. I want to see a second baseman that doesn't ground into so many double plays, lead all in his position in errors, strikeout as often as Durham does, and someone that can lay down a decent bunt. These are things that I don't like in Durham, things I believe Harris and Hummell can do.

Daver
07-21-2002, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by bc2k



I want to see a second baseman that can go to his right. I want to see a second baseman that doesn't ground into so many double plays, lead all in his position in errors, strikeout as often as Durham does, and someone that can lay down a decent bunt. These are things that I don't like in Durham, things I believe Harris and Hummell can do.

Hummel maybe,Harris no,in case you didn't know Hummel was moved from SS to 2nd because of his errors.