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View Full Version : Welcome to Cooperstown - Barry Larkin


Fenway
01-09-2012, 02:09 PM
http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2011/0724/dm_110724_mlb_cooperstown_postcard.jpg

Name Votes Yrs onballot

Barry Larkin 495 (86.4%) 3
Jack Morris 382 (66.7%) 13
Jeff Bagwell 321 (56.0%) 2
Lee Smith 290 (50.6%) 10
Tim Raines 279 (48.7%) 5
Alan Trammell 211 (36.8%) 11
Edgar Martinez 209 (36.5%) 3
Fred McGriff 137 (23.9%) 3
Larry Walker 131 (22.9%) 2
Mark McGwire 112 (19.5%) 6
Don Mattingly 102 (17.8%) 12
Dale Murphy 83 (14.5%) 14
Rafael Palmeiro 72 (12.6%) 2
Bernie Williams 55 (9.6%) 1
Juan Gonzalez 23 (4.0%) 2
Vinny Castilla 6 (1.0%) 1
Tim Salmon 5 (0.9%) 1
Bill Mueller 4 (0.7%) 1
Brad Radke 2 (0.3%) 1
Javy Lopez 1 (0.2%) 1
Eric Young 1 (0.2%) 1
Jeromy Burnitz 0 (0%) 1
Brian Jordan 0 (0%) 1
Terry Mulholland 0 (0%) 1
Phil Nevin 0 (0%) 1
Ruben Sierra 0 (0%) 1
Tony Womack 0 (0%) 1

sox1970
01-09-2012, 02:24 PM
If Fred McGriff didn't do roids while most everyone else did, he's getting screwed.

PKalltheway
01-09-2012, 02:25 PM
So excited for Barry! I grew up going to Riverfront Stadium watching him play. I can even remember punching out his name in multiple All-Star game ballots when I was 7 years old. I'm so happy for him, and this really means a lot to the city of Cincinnati!

Congrats! :bandance::gulp:

Fenway
01-09-2012, 02:26 PM
Jack Morris looks like someone who will make it in his last year...

palehosepub
01-09-2012, 02:34 PM
Thought Raines would (should) do better...

ohiosoxfan
01-09-2012, 02:36 PM
The people that gave votes to Brad Radke, Bill Mueller, Vinny Castilla, etc. should have their voting privileges revoked. . .

Fenway
01-09-2012, 02:36 PM
He put up with her nonsense for years

http://d3trabu2dfbdfb.cloudfront.net/3/8/382592_220w.jpeg

tstrike2000
01-09-2012, 02:37 PM
If Fred McGriff didn't do roids while most everyone else did, he's getting screwed.

http://pitchersandpoets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/fred-mcgriff-tom-emanski.png

"I'll have Tom Emanski talk to the BBWAA so I can get results!"

sox1970
01-09-2012, 02:38 PM
The people that gave votes to Brad Radke, Bill Mueller, Vinny Castilla, etc. should have their voting privileges revoked. . .

Most typical post every year. Buddy votes.

That said, I wish they would just cut the fat off the ballot for players that are obviously not getting in.

chicagowhitesox1
01-09-2012, 02:39 PM
It's pretty ridiculous Raines got less than Lee Smith.

thomas35forever
01-09-2012, 02:41 PM
My first exposure to him as a kid was a scouts PSA that used to come on when I watched my cartoons on WCIU. I soon learned what a good player he was. Congrats, Barry!:bandance:

pythons007
01-09-2012, 02:41 PM
the people that gave votes to brad radke, bill mueller, vinny castilla, etc. Should have their voting privileges revoked. . .

+1

asindc
01-09-2012, 02:43 PM
Congratulations to Barry Larkin.

asindc
01-09-2012, 02:45 PM
Thought Raines would (should) do better...

It's pretty ridiculous Raines got less than Lee Smith.

I continue to be mystified as to why Raines does not get elected. He is no worse than the 3rd-best leadoff hitter in history, IMO.

downstairs
01-09-2012, 02:55 PM
Jack Morris looks like someone who will make it in his last year...

What big stars are being added next year?

mrfourni
01-09-2012, 03:02 PM
What big stars are being added next year?

Barry Bonds (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/1785/barry-bonds) and seven-time Cy Young Award winner Roger Clemens (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/1427/roger-clemens) eligible for the first time along with Craig Biggio (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/2062/craig-biggio), Mike Piazza (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/2770/mike-piazza), Curt Schilling (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/2112/curt-schilling) and Sammy Sosa (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/2187/sammy-sosa).

I don't think any of those will be first ballot HOF

TDog
01-09-2012, 03:05 PM
The people that gave votes to Brad Radke, Bill Mueller, Vinny Castilla, etc. should have their voting privileges revoked. . .

I wouldn't revoke voting privileges to anyone who voted for someone I didn't believe belongs in the Hall of Fame, just as I wouldn't revoke the privileges of someone who failed to vote for someone elected. I still wouldn't have voted for Bert Blyleven., but I respect people I know who voted for them and their place in the process. Except for Juan Gonzalez, everyone who failed to get 5 percent of the vote were in their first year of eligibility.

Writers have up to 10 votes, and some make statements by voting for people they believe are too good to be shut out. Those players aren't taking votes away from anyone because no one seems to put 10 players on their ballots anymore. And there are times I find players dropped from the ballot more deserving than the ones gaining momentum. I think Harold Baines should be getting more support than Larry Walker, but Baines is no longer on the ballot.

Luke Appling got just two votes in his first year of eligibility, but the idea of Luke Appling in the Hall of Fame became less repulsive, and he was elected in his seventh year of eligibility.

I'm not surprised Tim Raines didn't get more votes. I am surprised and a little disappointed that Fred McGriff didn't do better.

TommyJohn
01-09-2012, 03:19 PM
Barry Bonds (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/1785/barry-bonds) and seven-time Cy Young Award winner Roger Clemens (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/1427/roger-clemens) eligible for the first time along with Craig Biggio (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/2062/craig-biggio), Mike Piazza (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/2770/mike-piazza), Curt Schilling (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/2112/curt-schilling) and Sammy Sosa (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/2187/sammy-sosa).

I don't think any of those will be first ballot HOF

I think Piazza will be.

asindc
01-09-2012, 03:21 PM
I wouldn't revoke voting privileges to anyone who voted for someone I didn't believe belongs in the Hall of Fame, just as I wouldn't revoke the privileges of someone who failed to vote for someone elected. I still wouldn't have voted for Bert Blyleven., but I respect people I know who voted for them and their place in the process. Except for Juan Gonzalez, everyone who failed to get 5 percent of the vote were in their first year of eligibility.

Writers have up to 10 votes, and some make statements by voting for people they believe are too good to be shut out. Those players aren't taking votes away from anyone because no one seems to put 10 players on their ballots anymore. And there are times I find players dropped from the ballot more deserving than the ones gaining momentum. I think Harold Baines should be getting more support than Larry Walker, but Baines is no longer on the ballot.

Luke Appling got just two votes in his first year of eligibility, but the idea of Luke Appling in the Hall of Fame became less repulsive, and he was elected in his seventh year of eligibility.

I'm not surprised Tim Raines didn't get more votes. I am surprised and a little disappointed that Fred McGriff didn't do better.

Why not?

doublem23
01-09-2012, 03:22 PM
Barry Bonds (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/1785/barry-bonds) and seven-time Cy Young Award winner Roger Clemens (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/1427/roger-clemens) eligible for the first time along with Craig Biggio (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/2062/craig-biggio), Mike Piazza (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/2770/mike-piazza), Curt Schilling (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/2112/curt-schilling) and Sammy Sosa (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/2187/sammy-sosa).

I don't think any of those will be first ballot HOF

I think Biggio will. There hasn't been a member of the 3,000 hit club (except for those who have tested positive for steroids or have been outright banned from baseball) that didn't get in on the 1st ballott since the 1950s.

TommyJohn
01-09-2012, 03:35 PM
Juan Gonzalez has 434 home runs and is no longer eligible. It used to seem like 400+ home runs was an automatic ticket to Cooperstown, but not anymore. Guys like Dwight Evans, Gonzalez and Dave Kingman aren't in and probably won't be. This is, of course, not counting the busted 'roiders like McGwire and Palmeiro.

Hmmm. Speaking of McGwire, I wonder what Tony LaRussa will say about him iwhen he's inducted, if anything?

Speaking of Dave Kingman, he now whines that if he had been nicer to writers, he'd be in Cooperstown today. Actually, he was TOO nice-to the the pitchers of his era, as his .236 lifetime BA would indicate.

bigsoxfan420
01-09-2012, 03:35 PM
He put up with her nonsense for years

http://d3trabu2dfbdfb.cloudfront.net/3/8/382592_220w.jpeg

I can't help but think of Billy West's impression of her when ever Marge Shot's name is uttered or I view her picture.

TDog
01-09-2012, 03:48 PM
Why not?

I'm not saying I wouldn't vote for him or implying that he isn't worthy. I just don't see that much support for him.

SOXSINCE'70
01-09-2012, 05:18 PM
http://pitchersandpoets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/fred-mcgriff-tom-emanski.png

"I'll have Tom Emanski talk to the BBWAA so I can get results!"
:tiphat::tiphat: A tip of the hat.Very,very good.

HomeFish
01-09-2012, 11:19 PM
Not a single vote for Phil Nevin?

Fenway
01-10-2012, 11:54 AM
Bob Ryan who has a vote explains the thought process.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2012/01/10/support_of_barry_larkin_grew_over_the_years/?page=full


Next year you have 4 who could have been first ballot choices.... Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa, and Mike Piazza. No way will the first 3 get in now.

Clemens will be the real barometer of the PED era. IF he beats the court case then how do you keep him out? But since most are convinced he did use PED's he is doomed.

TommyJohn
01-10-2012, 12:04 PM
Bob Ryan who has a vote explains the thought process.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2012/01/10/support_of_barry_larkin_grew_over_the_years/?page=full


Next year you have 4 who could have been first ballot choices.... Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa, and Mike Piazza. No way will the first 3 get in now.

Clemens will be the real barometer of the PED era. IF he beats the court case then how do you keep him out? But since most are convinced he did use PED's he is doomed.


If Bonds and Clemens are kept out, all I will say is it couldn't have happened to a couple of nicer pricks.

soxfanreggie
01-10-2012, 12:12 PM
The people that gave votes to Brad Radke, Bill Mueller, Vinny Castilla, etc. should have their voting privileges revoked. . .

From what I have heard, they are votes from writers "out of respect" for the players who they know won't get elected.

gobears1987
01-10-2012, 12:22 PM
:tiphat::tiphat: A tip of the hat.Very,very good.

You can tip that hat all you want, but it will fall right off of his head. :tongue:

Fenway
01-10-2012, 12:24 PM
If Bonds and Clemens are kept out, all I will say is it couldn't have happened to a couple of nicer pricks.

4 years ago when Roger decided to have a news conference the day after he babbled on 60 Minutes he said

"You think I played my career because I'm worried about the damn Hall of Fame? I could give a rat's ass about that also. If you have a vote . . . you keep your vote."

I suspect every writer remembers that comment.

tstrike2000
01-10-2012, 10:08 PM
4 years ago when Roger decided to have a news conference the day after he babbled on 60 Minutes he said



I suspect every writer remembers that comment.

He's a class act.

TommyJohn
01-11-2012, 09:30 AM
4 years ago when Roger decided to have a news conference the day after he babbled on 60 Minutes he said



I suspect every writer remembers that comment.

I also recall his temper tantrum where he declared that if the Hall didn't induct him as a Yankee, he wasn't coming.

The strange thing about him that struck me-Jose Canseco said in his book that Clemens was one of the few married players he had ever seen that never cheated on his wife. Soon after that, all of Clemens' affairs spilled out, including one with a teenager. Don't know why, but I found that comment by Canseco strange.

TheVulture
01-11-2012, 02:28 PM
Barry Bonds (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/1785/barry-bonds) and seven-time Cy Young Award winner Roger Clemens (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/1427/roger-clemens) eligible for the first time along with Craig Biggio (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/2062/craig-biggio), Mike Piazza (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/2770/mike-piazza), Curt Schilling (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/2112/curt-schilling) and Sammy Sosa (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/2187/sammy-sosa).

I don't think any of those will be first ballot HOF

I don't see how Biggio and Piazza are not HOFers. I don't think Sosa would have been HOF caliber without PEDs, but I believe Bonds and Clemens would have been anyway. Man, that would have been quite the HOF class.

gregoriop
01-11-2012, 03:19 PM
I don't see how Biggio and Piazza are not HOFers.


I agree, but I don't think they will be put in next year. These are the same people that do the "not on the first ballot" nonsense.

SI1020
01-11-2012, 03:27 PM
Another very good player makes it to the Baseball HOF.

SephClone89
01-11-2012, 06:18 PM
Another very good player makes it to the Baseball HOF.

Barry Larkin is a legitimate HoFer. Full stop.

SI1020
01-11-2012, 06:54 PM
Barry Larkin is a legitimate HoFer. Full stop. I liked Barry Larkin. A lot. Not only that, but upon reconsidering I'm going to say you are right and I stand corrected.

AZChiSoxFan
01-13-2012, 01:19 PM
http://pitchersandpoets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/fred-mcgriff-tom-emanski.png

"I'll have Tom Emanski talk to the BBWAA so I can get results!"

:rolling: Very well played! Classic!

TaylorStSox
01-13-2012, 03:40 PM
Do the omissions of Bagwell and Martinez tell us anything about Frank?

doublem23
01-13-2012, 03:44 PM
Do the omissions of Bagwell and Martinez tell us anything about Frank?

I would hope not. Bagwell's always had a lingering suspicion of steroids surrounding his career, whether that is justified or not. And Edgar Martinez, I feel, was always considered an OK HOF candidate. Frank's roundly respected as a clean player (at least, that is my impression), and while he was also primarily a DH he is also arguably the greatest right-handed hitter in Major League Baseball history.

The Edgar Martinez thing is ****ing bull****, anyway. Bill Mazeroski is in the Hall of Fame strictly because of his defensive wizardry as a shortstop. How the **** is this any different?

sox1970
01-13-2012, 04:06 PM
I would hope not. Bagwell's always had a lingering suspicion of steroids surrounding his career, whether that is justified or not. And Edgar Martinez, I feel, was always considered an OK HOF candidate. Frank's roundly respected as a clean player (at least, that is my impression), and while he was also primarily a DH he is also arguably the greatest right-handed hitter in Major League Baseball history.

The Edgar Martinez thing is ****ing bull****, anyway. Bill Mazeroski is in the Hall of Fame strictly because of his defensive wizardry as a shortstop. How the **** is this any different?

Not even that good. 2B.

TDog
01-13-2012, 04:41 PM
I don't see how Biggio and Piazza are not HOFers. I don't think Sosa would have been HOF caliber without PEDs, but I believe Bonds and Clemens would have been anyway. Man, that would have been quite the HOF class.

The question of those whose careers are tainted by PEDs is not whether they would have "put up Hall of Fame numbers" without PEDs. That is irrelevant because their careers are tainted by PEDs.

BleacherBandit
01-13-2012, 05:17 PM
I would hope not. Bagwell's always had a lingering suspicion of steroids surrounding his career, whether that is justified or not. And Edgar Martinez, I feel, was always considered an OK HOF candidate. Frank's roundly respected as a clean player (at least, that is my impression), and while he was also primarily a DH he is also arguably the greatest right-handed hitter in Major League Baseball history.

The Edgar Martinez thing is ****ing bull****, anyway. Bill Mazeroski is in the Hall of Fame strictly because of his defensive wizardry as a shortstop. How the **** is this any different?

Maz was voted in by the veteran's committee, if that changes your opinion of the legitimacy of his induction.

Plus, there's the whole 1960 WS performance.

TDog
01-13-2012, 05:52 PM
Maz was voted in by the veteran's committee, if that changes your opinion of the legitimacy of his induction.

Plus, there's the whole 1960 WS performance.

Bill Mazeroski wouldn't have been elected to the Hall of Fame if not for the 1960 World Series. Mazeroski was a great defensive second baseman, but the home run that ended the 1960 season loomed large in his legend. I have heard it said that Carlton Fisk wouldn't have been elected so soon into his eligibility if not for the 1975 World Series home run.

In any case, it was Mazeroski whose election by the Veteran's Committee inspired changes to the Veteran's Committee. I wouldn't say anyone who is elected by the Veteran's Committee shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame, because I think Nellie Fox belongs there. But if Mazeroski had been elected before Fox, Fox posthumously might have been a victim of the backlash and had to wait until the most recent rethinking of the Veteran's Committee that elected Ron Santo.

SI1020
01-13-2012, 08:30 PM
The late Myron Cope, a legend in Pittsburgh who covered sports in that town for decades as a writer, sportscaster, and color commentator for the Steelers was very instrumental in getting not only Bill Mazeroski into the baseball HOF, but also Lynn Swann into the pro football HOF.