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View Full Version : Cubs get Rizzo for Cashner


kittle42
01-06-2012, 02:27 PM
Hurts me to say, especially because I share a last name with the acquired player in question and now have to see it on the back of a goddamn Cubs uniform, but what a great move. Makes so much more sense than adding Fielder.

I have said already, idiot baseball fans (like sports show callers) will be calling for Theo's head when the Cubs are under .500 this season, because they have no idea that he's building without a care for 2012. Those people are dumb.

Sure, Theo's vision may not end up panning out, but he's doing an excellent job setting himself up for the years after 2012.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/7432801/chicago-cubs-acquire-1b-anthony-rizzo-san-diego-padres-andrew-cashner

johnnyg83
01-06-2012, 02:43 PM
man, what am I missing? Seems like Theo stole him.

Is the ceiling on Cashner that high?

CPditka
01-06-2012, 02:59 PM
Hate for my 1000th post to be about the Cubs. But this is a killer deal.

Rizzo was the centerpiece of the Gonzo deal last year.

Cashner is a nice prospect, but he also missed last year due to injury.

A much more sound investment then Prince.

veeter
01-06-2012, 03:03 PM
Wow. How did Theo get a proven major league stud for garbage like Cashner? He is amazing!!!!! *****.

mzh
01-06-2012, 03:10 PM
Wow. How did Theo get a proven major league stud for garbage like Cashner? He is amazing!!!!! *****.
Teal? :?: Rizzo hit .141 in his extended look last year.

TheOldRoman
01-06-2012, 03:20 PM
man, what am I missing? Seems like Theo stole him.

Is the ceiling on Cashner that high?Well, the Padres essentially gave the Red Sox Gonzalez for nothing because Theo disciple Hoyer was the Padres' GM. The Padres seemingly could have gotten a much better haul elsewhere. Instead, Rizzo was the only key piece. Now, after Hoyer was allowed to save face by leaving SD before they fired him, the new Pads GM and Esptein lackey Byrnes trades Rizzo to Theo/Hoyer while getting very little in return. Basically, Theo has made a cottage industry out of creating overhyped assistants and sending them to be GMs elsewhere so they could give Theo any player on their team he wants for little to nothing.

veeter
01-06-2012, 03:21 PM
Very teal. He's a top prospect. Good trade but Theo gave up a great arm in Cashner who is supposedly healthy. He pitched in the AFL. To me looks like an even trade. I'm just not ready to bow down and kiss Theo's feet just yet.

veeter
01-06-2012, 03:28 PM
Well, the Padres essentially gave the Red Sox Gonzalez for nothing because Theo disciple Hoyer was the Padres' GM. The Padres seemingly could have gotten a much better haul elsewhere. Instead, Rizzo was the only key piece. Now, after Hoyer was allowed to save face by leaving SD before they fired him, the new Pads GM and Esptein lackey Byrnes trades Rizzo to Theo/Hoyer while getting very little in return. Basically, Theo has made a cottage industry out of creating overhyped assistants and sending them to be GMs elsewhere so they could give Theo any player on their team he wants for little to nothing.Well I would hope organizations have a little better checks and balances to allow that. But I agree Theo and all of his cronies are hyped up to a nauseating level. Am I missing something or was Boston's payroll $170,000,000 last year? Did that all go to Theos' hidden gems he discovered or to free agents and roid heads?

The Immigrant
01-06-2012, 03:30 PM
It seems odd that a team so starved for offense would trade him for a pitcher, but I guess they had no room for him after signing Alonso. His lack of production in 150+ at bats in the Majors last season is fairly alarming, especially considering that most of his AAA production took place in Tucson.

ZombieRob
01-06-2012, 03:30 PM
Wow. How did Theo get a proven major league stud for garbage like Cashner? He is amazing!!!!! *****.
And we get off the Radar guy for an all star.


Edit : I see you implied teal

pythons007
01-06-2012, 03:55 PM
I'm not sure but something crappy seems to be going on with Theo and all his sidekicks turned GMs. I think Selig needs to look into some of these trades and make sure everything is on the up and up.

Lip Man 1
01-06-2012, 04:00 PM
I remember there's been some speculation over the years and a supposed comment by the then Pirates GM that he wouldn't deal with the Sox because he used to work in Cleveland.

At one time Kenny was trying to get a few of their better players.

It happens in baseball just like in real life.

Lip

CPditka
01-06-2012, 04:52 PM
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/cubs-acquire-anthony-rizzo-from-padres/

Fangraphs take

Foulke You
01-06-2012, 06:00 PM
Very teal. He's a top prospect. Good trade but Theo gave up a great arm in Cashner who is supposedly healthy. He pitched in the AFL. To me looks like an even trade. I'm just not ready to bow down and kiss Theo's feet just yet.
A top pitching prospect who had a disappointing 2011 because his arm blew out traded for a top 1B prospect who bombed in his first MLB extended look. I agree that it seems like a pretty even trade. I'm sure Rizzo is going to be hyped as the next Adrian Gonzalez but he could very well end up being Jeff Liefer. Such is the nature of prospects.

DrCrawdad
01-06-2012, 08:04 PM
Very teal. He's a top prospect. Good trade but Theo gave up a great arm in Cashner who is supposedly healthy. He pitched in the AFL. To me looks like an even trade. I'm just not ready to bow down and kiss Theo's feet just yet.

It's not Theos feet you are suppose to kiss...

A top pitching prospect who had a disappointing 2011 because his arm blew out traded for a top 1B prospect who bombed in his first MLB extended look. I agree that it seems like a pretty even trade. I'm sure Rizzo is going to be hyped as the next Adrian Gonzalez but he could very well end up being Jeff Liefer. Such is the nature of prospects.

How dare you! How dare you not bow before Theos!

Brian26
01-06-2012, 08:45 PM
This is what I said last month:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2868339&postcount=2

The trade is bull****, whether fair value is being exchanged or not. You can't have three or four GMs working in consortium to move their favorite players around.

mzh
01-06-2012, 08:58 PM
This is what I said last month:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2868339&postcount=2

The trade is bull****, whether fair value is being exchanged or not. You can't have three or four GMs working in consortium to move their favorite players around.
I'm not saying it is, but is there some sort of basis for collusion when favors are obviously being done among former colleagues? Again, not saying that this is going on, but find me another GM in baseball that does that Rizzo for A-Gone deal.

Brian26
01-06-2012, 09:03 PM
I'm not saying it is, but is there some sort of basis for collusion when favors are obviously being done among former colleagues? Again, not saying that this is going on, but find me another GM in baseball that does that Rizzo for A-Gone deal.

Hoyer drafted Rizzo, so he was/is a Rizzo-guy. If the deal last year was truly fair with Rizzo for Gonzalez, then there's no way in hell less than 12 months later that Rizzo-for-Cashner is on the square. One of those trades is BS.

Johnnydogs
01-06-2012, 10:26 PM
Yeah, I'm inclined to think it's BS too. I mean, people develop relationships and so it's normal to work out deals with friends but this is ridiculous! I was just looking on MLB (http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2011) and Anthony Rizzo is ranked as the number one 1B prospect in all of baseball (he was also the Padres number 1 prospect). Overall, he's the 18th best prospect in all of MLB and the Cubs got him for a reliever with a history of injury and a middling OF prospect. The Rays and Nats could have beat that with what they were reportedly offering. I don't think any other team could have gotten him so cheaply. Definitely something to look at... Actually, you could take this cronyism a step further; why hasn't Selig followed up on his threat to make the Cubs settle their compensation with the Red sox for Epstein? Cubs also haven't compensated the Padres for Hoyer and McCleod but they have made a trade with one of the two and the other agreed to send them scouts. Crazy.

DirtySox
01-06-2012, 10:33 PM
Overall, he's the 18th best prospect in all of MLB and the Cubs got him for a reliever with a history of injury and a middling OF prospect.

Who thinks he's the 18th in all MLB? Both BA and BP have Rizzo in the 40 to 50 range.

Johnnydogs
01-06-2012, 10:42 PM
Who thinks he's the 18th in all MLB? Both BA and BP have Rizzo in the 40 to 50 range.

Again, this is according to MLB. If you follow the link I posted he's 18 on the top 50.

DirtySox
01-06-2012, 10:51 PM
Again, this is according to MLB. If you follow the link I posted he's 18 on the top 50.

Ah. It's a Mayo list. Mayo is more of a reporter than scout. Rizzo isn't nearly as well thought of by others. While his AAA line was great, one has to take into account that it was in the PCL. It needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It's a hitter's paradise.

Anyhow:


jimcallisBA Jim Callis
Alonso was No. 41, Rizzo No. 42 on my personal Top 50. @jonf1220: Yonder Alonso or Rizzo?
6 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply


Kevin_Goldstein Kevin Goldstein
Neither Baez, nor Rizzo is in my Top 50. RT @caryatid62: @Kevin_Goldstein that's 3-4 top 50 for cubs, right?
4 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply

DirtySox
01-06-2012, 11:01 PM
One can read Sickels' thoughts on Rizzo here (http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/1/6/2687814/prospects-in-the-andrew-cashner-anthony-rizzo-trade).

He's a good prospect no doubt, but I think having him at 18th in baseball is a huge stretch.

Johnnydogs
01-06-2012, 11:07 PM
Ah. It's a Mayo list. Mayo is more of a reporter than scout. Rizzo isn't nearly as well thought of by others. While his AAA line was great, one has to take into account that it was in the PCL. It needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It's a hitter's paradise.

Anyhow:


jimcallisBA Jim Callis
Alonso was No. 41, Rizzo No. 42 on my personal Top 50. @jonf1220: Yonder Alonso or Rizzo?
6 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply


Kevin_Goldstein Kevin Goldstein
Neither Baez, nor Rizzo is in my Top 50. RT @caryatid62: @Kevin_Goldstein that's 3-4 top 50 for cubs, right?
4 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Yeah but Goldstein also said he would choose Rizzo over Alonso and you already said BA & BP have him in the top 50. Either way, he's valuable. According to Goldstein he's now the Cubs 3rd best prosepect behing Jackson and Baez.

Rizzo. RT @jonf1220:@Kevin_Goldstein Yonder Alonso or Rizzo?
7 hours ago

DirtySox
01-06-2012, 11:12 PM
Yeah but Goldstein also said he would choose Rizzo over Alonso and you already said BA & BP have him in the top 50. Either way, he's valuable. According to Goldstein he's now the Cubs 3rd best prosepect behing Jackson and Baez.

Rizzo. RT @jonf1220:@Kevin_Goldstein Yonder Alonso or Rizzo?
7 hours ago

Right. He's a fine prospect. I like him, and I like the trade better for the Cubs. Just saying that the opinion he's a top 20 prospect in all baseball is by far not the consensus.

Johnnydogs
01-06-2012, 11:15 PM
Right. He's a fine prospect. I like him, and I like the trade better for the Cubs. Just saying that the opinion he's a top 15 prospect in all baseball is by far not the consensus.

You'd know better than me. I admittedly didn't know a whole lot about him so when I saw him ranked 18th on that MLB list it was interesting. I still think they could have gotten a lot more for a top 50 prospect. I'd be upset if I were a Padres' fan.

DirtySox
01-06-2012, 11:20 PM
You'd know better than me. I admittedly didn't know a whole lot about him so when I saw him ranked 18th on that MLB list it was interesting. I still think they could have gotten a lot more for a top 50 prospect. I'd be upset if I were a Padres' fan.

I would be a bit upset considering that Byrnes already stated Cashner would be working out of the bullpen next year. I'm not sure if he's stated he will eventually start, but value-wise if the Padres think he's absolutely a reliever I think the value in this trade certainly leans towards the Cubs.

Johnnydogs
01-06-2012, 11:24 PM
I would be a bit upset considering that Byrnes already stated Cashner would be working out of the bullpen next year. I'm not sure if he's stated he will eventually start, but value-wise if the Padres think he's absolutely a reliever I think the value in this trade certainly leans towards the Cubs.

Exactly.

PalehosePlanet
01-07-2012, 01:05 AM
I would be a bit upset considering that Byrnes already stated Cashner would be working out of the bullpen next year. I'm not sure if he's stated he will eventually start, but value-wise if the Padres think he's absolutely a reliever I think the value in this trade certainly leans towards the Cubs.

I actually liked Cashner as a starter. The Padres, however, having lost both Bell and Adams from the pen over the last few months, will probably look at Cashner as a setup man for next year. Maybe he'll start in 2013; when I first read of the trade I figured Cashner would be Latos replacement (stuff wise he's as good, if not better.)

It probably boils down to Byrnes liking Alonso better than Rizzo. Personally, FWIW, I do too. Rizzo looks like a Overbay/Kotchman type to me.

kittle42
01-07-2012, 12:40 PM
Regardless if Rizzo is Top 20 or just Top 50 - he's a top prospect. Cashner is not. Steal for the Cubs - and agree that the trade is BS.

Vernam
01-07-2012, 02:32 PM
Hoyer drafted Rizzo, so he was/is a Rizzo-guy. If the deal last year was truly fair with Rizzo for Gonzalez, then there's no way in hell less than 12 months later that Rizzo-for-Cashner is on the square. One of those trades is BS.

This is intriguing. Can you be more specific about what the quid-pro-quo would be? I wouldn't doubt that cronies like this engage in log rolling behind the scenes, but I can't imagine why one team -- no matter the friendships -- would accept a player they perceive as inferior to the one they're giving up. Or are you saying Hoyer and Epstein snookered a former colleague who should've known better?

Vernam

veeter
03-04-2012, 08:51 PM
Cashner was throwing smoke today according to rotoworld. Still think that was an even trade. Hell the Pads might have won it.

DirtySox
03-04-2012, 09:01 PM
Cashner was throwing smoke today according to rotoworld. Still think that was an even trade. Hell the Pads might have won it.

As one would imagine, most are saying the report that he hit 103 is quite false.

veeter
03-04-2012, 09:23 PM
As one would imagine, most are saying the report that he hit 103 is quite false.All these guns are b.s. The point is he seems healthy and ready to pitch. I was just irritated that people were calling this trade one sided when it wasn't.

DirtySox
03-04-2012, 09:30 PM
All these guns are b.s. The point is he seems healthy and ready to pitch. I was just irritated that people were calling this trade one sided when it wasn't.

Hard to assess the trade as one-sided or not at this juncture. We have to wait and see. The opinions on both Rizzo and Cashner are rather divided.