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View Full Version : Danks to Sign 5 Year, $65 Million Extension


DirtySox
12-21-2011, 07:53 PM
Seems about official now with Heyman reporting in.


JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
danks and white sox agree on $65M, 5-yr deal. looks like some fan had it first. lol
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply


JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
danks deal wont be announced until after xmas, as he has a physical to take. #chisox
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply


JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
who says #chisox arent doing anything or that kenny doesnt love his players? danks, only 26 and lhp, gets nice payday ($65M)
46 seconds ago Favorite Retweet Reply


ChuckGarfien Chuck Garfien
Sources close to situation confirm John Danks agrees to multi-year extension with White Sox.
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Sockinchisox
12-21-2011, 07:53 PM
Nice! Good to have you in the fold long-term Johnny!

SephClone89
12-21-2011, 07:55 PM
Well, can't say I was expecting this.

DirtySox
12-21-2011, 07:56 PM
Nice! Good to have you in the fold long-term Johnny!

Indeed. My favorite White Sox pitcher.


I'm now confused in what the heck Kenny is doing though. Payroll still going to be cut? Floyd now likely traded instead? Jerry change his mind? All in part deux?

ilsox7
12-21-2011, 07:57 PM
Huge shock to me. Wow.

Frater Perdurabo
12-21-2011, 08:00 PM
Good move to stabilize the rotation. I actually will feel good about this team's potential if Peavy makes 30 starts and throws 200 innings, and if Rios, Dunn and Beckham can just be average.

dwitt76
12-21-2011, 08:06 PM
:scratch:

soxnut1018
12-21-2011, 08:07 PM
I love Danks, but this move confuses the hell out of me.

soxinem1
12-21-2011, 08:10 PM
Sure did not see this coming.

And yes, this off-season is becoming quite confusing.....

johnnyg83
12-21-2011, 08:11 PM
I don't mind the deal. I like the idea of having him in the rotation for a while. Danks, Peavy, Floyd, Sale, Humber is better than I thought we'd be in 2012.

But will they move Floyd now?

Frater Perdurabo
12-21-2011, 08:11 PM
It is now clear the Sox had planned for some time to move Sale into the rotation, and would keep just one of Buehrle or Danks. The lack of big offers for Danks coupled with the Marlins over-offer for Buehrle made the decision for KW.

KRS1
12-21-2011, 08:11 PM
Glad to see it confirmed during the Hawks intermission.

DirtySox
12-21-2011, 08:12 PM
Sure did not see this coming.

And yes, this off-season is becoming quite confusing.....

I'm wondering if Kenny didn't like the trade value of one year of Danks, and is now able to retain him at favorable price if so desired, or trade him later for a much better return if necessary.

russ99
12-21-2011, 08:14 PM
I love Danks, but this move confuses the hell out of me.

Not me. I doubt Danks will get $13M next year (I'd think that Kenny backloaded the contract, since Danks was due $8M at most at arb) and after that he's taking Peavy's spot in the rotation and payroll.

This is a good sign. The Sox may still be trying to reload and cut payroll with adding good prospects, but with Danks, Sale and Humber in the rotation, we won't backslide too much.

I'd also think that Floyd becomes our biggest trade candidate now.

chisox12
12-21-2011, 08:22 PM
I love Danks, but this move confuses the hell out of me.


Yeah...not sure what this move means. I like it, but we gotta be moving a few other pieces now, right?

Corlose 15
12-21-2011, 08:23 PM
This appears to be a sign the Sox feel they can compete next year. They will likely trade Quentin to make room for Viciedo in RF and must feel that Dunn, Rios, and Beckham are due for a bounce back with working with Manto.

Who knows though, there have been many times in the past few years where we as fans have felt we knew what Kenny was going to do only to have him make a move out of nowhere.

Frater Perdurabo
12-21-2011, 08:24 PM
If he is so inclined, KW can now bundle Quentin and Floyd together for a package of prospects.

I would prefer to keep Floyd, however, because the rotation will be quite suspect in 2013 when Peavy almost certainly leaves.

102605
12-21-2011, 08:25 PM
Is there any no trade clause?

ChicagoG19
12-21-2011, 08:27 PM
I thought the Sox were rebuilding for sure and Danks was gone. I am confused. :scratch:

CHISOXFAN13
12-21-2011, 08:44 PM
Love Burls, but if I had to pick one of the two going forward, Danks would be the guy.

This is wonderful news.

Tragg
12-21-2011, 08:46 PM
If he is so inclined, KW can now bundle Quentin and Floyd together for a package of prospects.

I would prefer to keep Floyd, however, because the rotation will be quite suspect in 2013 when Peavy almost certainly leaves.

Well our rotation is now stabilized, which should prevent a sub 75 win debacle. I think it's important to avoid those.

I think Floyd is a good pitcher who should bring a nice return...but everyone seems to think he won't; so if he won't, keep him.

veeter
12-21-2011, 08:49 PM
Does Jordan now return to the 40 man?

DirtySox
12-21-2011, 08:50 PM
Well our rotation is now stabilized, which should prevent a sub 75 win debacle. I think it's important to avoid those.

I think Floyd is a good pitcher who should bring a nice return...but everyone seems to think he won't; so if he won't, keep him.

If payroll does indeed need to be cut, Quentin has to be on the block. Thornton too.

guillensdisciple
12-21-2011, 08:50 PM
We have a new number one starter. I don't really care for Peavy- he sucks.

Don't know what I feel about Humber, we'll see this year.


Floyd is Mr. Consistently average so eh.

Sale, I am excited about.

Basically should have two really good pitchers. One mediocre one.

One who talks too much, and another who needs another year to prove that he is for real.

The only good news I can gain from this is that we still have the same team that so badly underperformed last year without MB.

Sooooo, I guess here comes the if game.

If the offense performs, I do think this team will be in the hunt for the AL Central.

cws05champ
12-21-2011, 08:50 PM
If he is so inclined, KW can now bundle Quentin and Floyd together for a package of prospects.

I would prefer to keep Floyd, however, because the rotation will be quite suspect in 2013 when Peavy almost certainly leaves.

And it's not suspect with a fragile Peavy already? I'd rather have Peavy and his $17M gone right now.

Thome25
12-21-2011, 08:55 PM
I think there's a possibility that this becomes a win-win situation for KW and the Sox.

If we decide to keep Danks we have him for the next 5 years.

If we decide to trade him at some point, we just maximized his trade value by making him available as more than just a rent-a-player to a potential trade partner.

Viva Medias B's
12-21-2011, 09:07 PM
Jerry Reinsdorf really opened the wallet today, spending $160M ($95M on Derrick Rose and $65M on John Danks).

soxfanreggie
12-21-2011, 09:13 PM
ESPN reports it as well!

TommyGavinFloyd
12-21-2011, 09:31 PM
I figured the thing about trading Danks wasn't really because of a rebuild but was because he was on his last year and was going to get a major payday and we didn't think we could afford it. Apparently, that's not the case. It's a great move for the future, the guy is still only 26.

Thome25
12-21-2011, 09:51 PM
The Sox just broke their unwritten "no 5 year deals for pitchers" rule. :tongue:

wassagstdu
12-21-2011, 09:53 PM
Buehrle will be a better pitcher $58MM into his contract than Danks will be $58MM into his.

Noneck
12-21-2011, 10:00 PM
I really dont like anything more than 3yrs for a pitcher but I understand that competition forces this to happen.

PalehosePlanet
12-21-2011, 10:19 PM
The earlier tweet that stated 5/54 was crazy optimistic, I personally thought 5/75 would be more likely. So we're in between the two figures at 65 million which still makes it a good deal for the team.

He is still very young, so he should easily fit into our future plans even if a mini rebuild is in place.

DrCrawdad
12-21-2011, 10:22 PM
Buehrle will be a better pitcher $58MM into his contract than Danks will be $58MM into his.

Best wishes to Buehrle but I disagree with your comment here.

PalehosePlanet
12-21-2011, 10:26 PM
Best wishes to Buehrle but I disagree with your comment here.

Buehrle being in the NL might actually have better numbers, but I doubt he'll be a better pitcher.

I don't mean to come off cold-hearted, I love Burls, but I agree, Danks is the better choice for us at this time.

roylestillman
12-21-2011, 10:26 PM
Jerry Reinsdorf really opened the wallet today, spending $160M ($95M on Derrick Rose and $65M on John Danks).
But why would you waste releasing both of these good news stories on the same day? Somebody ends up on page 2.

DSpivack
12-21-2011, 10:29 PM
But why would you waste releasing both of these good news stories on the same day? Somebody ends up on page 2.

Because one has nothing to do with the other?

:shrugs:

Also, did someone else here, or did I read on twitter, that Sox wanted to announce this after Christmas?

gosox41
12-21-2011, 10:37 PM
If he is so inclined, KW can now bundle Quentin and Floyd together for a package of prospects.

I would prefer to keep Floyd, however, because the rotation will be quite suspect in 2013 when Peavy almost certainly leaves.


Isn't it suspect now. Is there any reason to believe that he can make at least 25 starts next year?


Bob

Hendu
12-21-2011, 10:42 PM
I know that Danks seems to have plateaued and has been looking like a #3 instead of top of the rotation...but I am happy that we have some good news for a change. And I still hope that Danks can turn the corner. Oh and not cheap but not horrible either. Seems like a pretty fair contract (though I'm not a fan of 5-year deals for pitchers but it's the market).

thomas35forever
12-21-2011, 10:49 PM
Well, someone has to take the place of Mark as the mainstay southpaw in the rotation. Way to go, Johnny! Nice to know you'll be here for awhile.

Updated checklist time:

5 more years of Danks - check
5 more years of Rose - check
5 more years of South Park - check

Yeah, life is going to be good in the near future.

RCWHITESOX
12-21-2011, 10:52 PM
Good move to stabilize the rotation. I actually will feel good about this team's potential if Peavy makes 30 starts and throws 200 innings, and if Rios, Dunn and Beckham can just be average.

Williams has really been hard to read. We can only hope he has a plan and this will be the opposite of last season

Corlose 15
12-21-2011, 11:02 PM
Good move to stabilize the rotation. I actually will feel good about this team's potential if Peavy makes 30 starts and throws 200 innings, and if Rios, Dunn and Beckham can just be average.

I must say I enjoyed the seemingly annual "This season's gonna be different" Beckham article on whitesox.com. :cool:

rookieroy
12-21-2011, 11:14 PM
Yikes! Everyone is so excited about us signing a pitcher to a long term deal with a career record of 54 wins and 56 losses with an ERA over 4.00. Yes, he's young and a lefty but what else is so great? I dont get it. I hope we're not paying 12 million dollars a year for a below average pitcher. Cant we pay 12 million to the same type player for 2 years? Someone please help me understand.........

PaleHoser
12-21-2011, 11:17 PM
The Sox just broke their unwritten "no 5 year deals for pitchers" rule. :tongue:

+1

I suspect he still gets moved this off-season unless he gets a no trade clause.

Tragg
12-21-2011, 11:53 PM
+1

I suspect he still gets moved this off-season unless he gets a no trade clause.

I don't know. Were he a free agent, would he get more or less than 5/65? Perhaps more BUT, the number of teams willing to pay that would be few, which means that the number of teams willing to take on a 5/65 contract in trade will be few, which diminishes the return.

DrCrawdad
12-21-2011, 11:54 PM
+1

I suspect he still gets moved this off-season unless he gets a no trade clause.

Does MLB allow sign and trades?

Nellie_Fox
12-22-2011, 12:02 AM
Does MLB allow sign and trades?They do that in the NBA to get around the salary cap; the guy's "Larry Bird exemption" goes with him. There's nothing that I know of that would prevent the Sox from trading him now. I hope that's not why they did it.

Soxman219
12-22-2011, 12:04 AM
This move shows me that Danks is the new #1 of the pitching staff and will be relied on in big games. With a decent young pitching staff in a weak division and possible comeback seasons from Dunn and Rios, the Sox can find themselves back in the postseason.

Lip Man 1
12-22-2011, 12:10 AM
Solid left handed pitchers who are relaible don't grow on trees. This is a good move and gives the Sox some stability moving forward.

It also takes another potential pitching piece off the trade list...the price for Gavin Floyd just went up.

Lip

DSpivack
12-22-2011, 12:12 AM
They do that in the NBA to get around the salary cap; the guy's "Larry Bird exemption" goes with him. There's nothing that I know of that would prevent the Sox from trading him now. I hope that's not why they did it.

I hope not, either, but I do think they'll be able to get much more in return with him signed for 5 more years instead of being a free agent in a year.

Daver
12-22-2011, 12:13 AM
Does MLB allow sign and trades?

I haven't read the new CBA, but under the old one a team could not sign a free agent and then turn around and trade him prior to July, but that is not the case here, Danks did not sign as a FA, and he signed an extension, not a new contract.

hawkjt
12-22-2011, 12:13 AM
There is no way that Danks would sign this deal without some protection from being traded,at least for a couple of years. Otherwise,he would just play out his deal and be a free agent and get 90 million after next season.

No, he wanted to stay in Chicago. I like that. Kind of like DRose. Self-confidence that they can make their teams winners.

Stewart,Humber,Peavy,Floyd,Sale,Danks....depth is a good thing in starting pitching.

BainesHOF
12-22-2011, 12:56 AM
Talk about overpaying someone.

KMcMahon817
12-22-2011, 02:19 AM
I love the move. I have always been a huge fan of Danks..I really think he could take that step and become one of the best lhp in the game. I have felt that way since 2008 though, and it just has not happened. Either way..Danks is easily worth what the SOX are paying him. As someone else said, quality LH pitchers do not grow on trees. I don't see this as an overpay at all.

I hope this also means that we get to see a quality product on the field in 2012. Good move, KW. Keep it up.

Thome25
12-22-2011, 04:19 AM
+1

I suspect he still gets moved this off-season unless he gets a no trade clause.

I agree.

Something isn't right. The Sox don't normally sign pitchers to 5 year deals and yet they just did.

The biggest complaint about getting value for Danks was that he was only locked up for next year and teams wouldn't pay highly for a player who wasn't under control for more than a year.

And then BAM!...they sign him to an extension?

I think they're setting themselves up to trade him...maybe not right away though.

jcw218
12-22-2011, 04:22 AM
Also, did someone else here, or did I read on twitter, that Sox wanted to announce this after Christmas?

I do not believe that the White Sox wanted to keep this a secret until they could officially announce the contract extension, it's just that Danks needs to pass a physical before the deal becomes official. That will not happen until after Christmas.

doublem23
12-22-2011, 05:07 AM
:KW
I'm back, MOTHER****ERS

doublem23
12-22-2011, 05:08 AM
Talk about overpaying someone.

$15 M/year is about what Danks is worth now, forget the kid's ceiling that he still arguably hasn't hit. This is a good extension, find me a list of established LH that you'd rather build around. It's not very long.

Thome25
12-22-2011, 05:42 AM
Talk about overpaying someone.

Danks is a bargain at a 13mil a year average salary.

As a sidenote, KW and the Sox prove once again that when there are no rumors whatsoever and when things get almost silent for this team on the trade and free agent speculation, thats when things happen.

DaveIsHere
12-22-2011, 05:51 AM
:KW
I'm back, MOTHER****ERS

This made my morning.

DumpJerry
12-22-2011, 07:28 AM
Last night, Mike Adamle said Danks was "all in." :rolleyes:

Bucky F. Dent
12-22-2011, 07:29 AM
Glad to see this happen. Danks is a young left starter with (hopefully) many good years left in him.

BTW - I thought the three year unwritten rule only applied to pitchers over 30.

soxinem1
12-22-2011, 07:38 AM
Who would have thought that John Danks would get five years guaranteed and Buehrle couldn't get more than four from the team? No pitcher has ever received this type of contract here.

I wonder what makes him so special? :scratch:

doublem23
12-22-2011, 08:01 AM
Who would have thought that John Danks would get five years guaranteed and Buehrle couldn't get more than four from the team? No pitcher has ever received this type of contract here.

I wonder what makes him so special? :scratch:

He's good, has a great track record with his health, young, and left-handed.

Some of these comments are confusing the hell out of me. Are people actually upset that the Sox just locked Danks up through 2016?

VenturaFan23
12-22-2011, 08:15 AM
Great news. Glad to see one of my favorite Sox players stick around for a while!

kufram
12-22-2011, 08:23 AM
I think this is absolutely the right move. Much better to put the money on Danks rather than Buehrle much as I love Mark. If I remember correctly Danks got almost no run support when he went 0-8 or something like that early 2011.

Choosing Buehrle over Danks this year would have been loyalty to a fault.

RichO
12-22-2011, 08:44 AM
I'd really be surprised if the deal wasn't 4 years and an option. It gets reported as 5 but only 4 are certain.

Considering he would have had to sign a 1 year deal for this year anyway, at that point it's basically a 3 year extension with an option. That's not much of a departure from the deals Chad Billingsley and Wandy Rodriguez signed going into 2011. Not a radical move at all.

At the end of this season he was going to get a qualifying offer anyway, and on the market he'd probably get something less than, but approaching, CJ Wilson's deal.

DaveIsHere
12-22-2011, 08:44 AM
Great signing! Am I the only one that thinks the Sox will be pretty good next year, there are a lot of variables, but If they don't dump too much I like our chances especially on the pitching side. Reminds me of 2005 with all the moves and the reactions to those moves..................next couple months should be interesting.

FarmerAndy
12-22-2011, 08:48 AM
It also takes another potential pitching piece off the trade list...the price for Gavin Floyd just went up.


What am I missing here? I don't see how signing Danks makes the price for Floyd go up. That might be how the free agent market works, but the trade market is a different animal. Any team interested in trading for Floyd will deal based on how they value Floyd.

The signing of Danks doesn't drive up the trade value of Floyd. It drives up the trade value of Danks.

34 Inch Stick
12-22-2011, 08:48 AM
Glad to see this move. I wouldn't be suprised to see Danks really take off in the next 1-2 years.

russ99
12-22-2011, 09:02 AM
Last night, Mike Adamle said Danks was "all in." :rolleyes:

Oh man, we'll never hear the end of that one...

I certainly hope the Sox gave Danks that extension to keep him.

Though it would be like the recent Kenny to get the fans' hopes up for good rotation the next couple of seasons and then deal him for low minors prospects. Let's hope not.

Chez
12-22-2011, 09:08 AM
Since July, I've been predicting the Sox would either re-sign Buehrle or extend Danks (but would not do both). Still -- gotta admit that this [happily]surprised me.

tstrike2000
12-22-2011, 09:09 AM
I'm glad to have Johnny here, too. I'm also surprised, was under the impression that Kenny was going to trade him for prospects.

October26
12-22-2011, 09:13 AM
I certainly hope the Sox gave Danks that extension to keep him.

Me too, russ.

While my heart will always be with Buehrle and I would have liked to see him re-sign with the Sox, my brain tells me this is the better move. :bandance: happy to read about this here on WSI and looking forward to seeing Danks pitch on the South Side for years to come!

Thome25
12-22-2011, 09:32 AM
What am I missing here? I don't see how signing Danks makes the price for Floyd go up. That might be how the free agent market works, but the trade market is a different animal. Any team interested in trading for Floyd will deal based on how they value Floyd.

The signing of Danks doesn't drive up the trade value of Floyd. It drives up the trade value of Danks.

Simple law of supply and demand. There was a pool of several pitchers supposedly available including but not limited to Gio Gonzalez, Danks, and Floyd.

There is a list of several teams who are interested in the pitchers currently available via trade.

If you start taking pitchers off the trade market without pacifying the teams which are after them, the pool of players shrinks thus driving the value of the remaining players upwards.

doublem23
12-22-2011, 09:39 AM
I'm glad to have Johnny here, too. I'm also surprised, was under the impression that Kenny was going to trade him for prospects.

The general consensus I seem to get from people "in the biz" right now is that other owners and teams ridiculously overvalue prospects, be it their own or other teams, to the point that they subsequently devalue the cost of established players. I have no doubt the Sox surveyed the market for Danks, saw that there was nothing out there even near his value, and wisely chose to resign him rather than risk allowing him to walk for nothing after 2012. 26-year-old left-handers with an established presence in the Major Leagues don't come around all that often, Danks is the kind of pitcher you can build a rotation and team around. I would have been OK with Kenny dealing John if it meant getting a good haul in return to form the new core of the Sox, but if that's just not available now, then why not do the next best thing and just keep what you got? Though, as has been mentioned, unless there's a no-trade clause or this contract is ridiculously backloaded, it probably only further adds to his value.

Golden Sox
12-22-2011, 09:42 AM
Now that Danks is signed, all the White Sox need to happen for 2012 is: Dunn, Rios, Beckham and Morel have to hit. Konerko and AJ continue to hit, and Peavy and Sale pitch well in the rotation. If all of this happens we can look forward to a Championship season.

soxinem1
12-22-2011, 09:54 AM
He's good, has a great track record with his health, young, and left-handed.

Some of these comments are confusing the hell out of me. Are people actually upset that the Sox just locked Danks up through 2016?

I don't think it is being upset, it is more trying to figure out what direction the team is going.

In my case, I wonder why Danks was able to get something Buehrle, Jack McDowell, Alex Fernandez, or any FA target of the team ever received, and that is a five-year contract for a starting pitcher, one who is coming off his worst season since he was a rookie. He is a solid pitcher, however unlike the others, he has a losing record and has averaged less than 11 wins a season, meaning he can be replaced.

And rebuilding teams don't make these kind of signings either, unless of course KW gave Danks the idea that while there may be some drastic changes, it will take place over time and not blown up at once. Otherwise, why would Danks have elected to take this route.

And yes, I believe what another post mentioned. Dunn, Beckham, and Rios have to hit. If they do something around their career averages (or rookie year in Bacon's case) and the others do the same, this team will not be as bad as others may think.

Wishful thinking? Maybe. Not impossible though.

Maybe Williams will clue us in at SoxFest.

doublem23
12-22-2011, 10:00 AM
John Danks isn't a crusty old veteran whose best days are behind him. Hell, he hasn't even reached this traditional peak years yet. The idea that signing a prized, young left-hander to a long-term deal isn't rebuilding is frankly flabbergasting. If you were putting together a team today on a 3-4 year plan, how many other pitchers out there would you prefer to build around before you got to Danks?

TheOldRoman
12-22-2011, 10:03 AM
I was shocked by this signing. The Sox offered Floyd and Danks the same deal after 2008, giving them financial security. Floyd jumped at it (likely after failing in Philly and having his baseball life flash before his eyes) and Danks was fine to take it year to year, risking injury to get more money in the long run. He rejected extension offers after 2009 and 2010, also. I figured all along that there was no way the Sox could reasonably lock him up before he hit the market, that he would be looking to get a $100 million contract.

I am still surprised he actually agreed before hitting the open market, as someone would be dumb enough to throw crazy money at a young lefty with his upside. I am very pleased with this signing. Hopefully this year John can finally take the "next step" and become the true ace he has the potential to be.

soxinem1
12-22-2011, 10:11 AM
John Danks isn't a crusty old veteran whose best days are behind him. Hell, he hasn't even reached this traditional peak years yet. The idea that signing a prized, young left-hander to a long-term deal isn't rebuilding is frankly flabbergasting. If you were putting together a team today on a 3-4 year plan, how many other pitchers out there would you prefer to build around before you got to Danks?

Alex Fernandez was 26, Wilson Alvarez 27, while Mark Buehrle and Jack McDowell were 28 when they were getting to the same stage in their careers as Danks is now.

All of them came off solid seasons as well, had no major injuries during their prime years, and the White Sox didn't make the five-year exception for them, and all had better numbers that they achieved during the steroid era.

So again, what makes Danks so special that he gets five years over any of these guys, on a team that says it is rebuilding?

kittle42
12-22-2011, 10:16 AM
Now that Danks is signed, all the White Sox need to happen for 2012 is: Dunn, Rios, Beckham and Morel have to hit. Konerko and AJ continue to hit, and Peavy and Sale pitch well in the rotation. If all of this happens we can look forward to a Championship season.

Christ.

doublem23
12-22-2011, 10:20 AM
So again, what makes Danks so special that he gets five years over any of these guys?

I don't give a ****, he's probably just better than any of them. Also, uh, McDowell and Fernandez completely burned out at 31 and 28 respectively, so clearly the Sox were absolutely correct to not invest in either of them. Wilson Alvarez may be the only one to somewhat have had any success post-Sox, but even then he barely qualified as anything more than a below average SP at any point past 28 years old. Buehrle's last extension with the Sox took him to 32 years old, Danks will be 31 when this deal expires, so it's not like he's exactly charting crazy insane new waters here.

If there's no fair value trade market for Danks, then options B and C are to either resign and build around him or let him go for nothing. I think Option B is clearly better.

Also, it's not 1997 any more, the financial realities of the organization are clearly different. Whatever the Sox did or didn't do with Jack McDowell has no bearing on what they should or shouldn't do with John Danks.

soxinem1
12-22-2011, 10:46 AM
I don't give a ****, he's probably just better than any of them. Also, uh, McDowell and Fernandez completely burned out at 31 and 28 respectively, so clearly the Sox were absolutely correct to not invest in either of them. Wilson Alvarez may be the only one to somewhat have had any success post-Sox, but even then he barely qualified as anything more than a below average SP at any point past 28 years old. Buehrle's last extension with the Sox took him to 32 years old, Danks will be 31 when this deal expires, so it's not like he's exactly charting crazy insane new waters here.

If there's no fair value trade market for Danks, then options B and C are to either resign and build around him or let him go for nothing. I think Option B is clearly better.

Also, it's not 1997 any more, the financial realities of the organization are clearly different. Whatever the Sox did or didn't do with Jack McDowell has no bearing on what they should or shouldn't do with John Danks.

Points well taken. However the crystal ball being what it is, there was no way to predict all of them would fall apart after leaving, just like there is no way to tell if this is a smart move or if Danks' shoulder is a ticking time bomb.

And Danks was not better than any of those pitchers at the same time. Not even close.

My point is that the five-year option was never given to Buehrle as recently as 2007, so why Danks, in a rebuilding year to boot? Is this a sign of things to come? Will JR/KW open their wallets to FA starters now?

Just like Cliff Lee in 2010, Danks would have more value into the season if he has a solid year in 2012. A contender will pay the price down the stretch if they believe that player will help the team.

And BTW, don't think Danks won't hear the gripes in this forum if he has another 2011 seaosn in 2012. I can hear them already. :smile:

shingo10
12-22-2011, 11:04 AM
This is the first time in a LONG time that I've actually sensed optimism on this board. Good stuff.

DumpJerry
12-22-2011, 11:17 AM
Now that Danks is signed, all the White Sox need to happen for 2012 is: Dunn, Rios, Beckham and Morel have to hit. Konerko and AJ continue to hit, and Peavy and Sale pitch well in the rotation. If all of this happens we can look forward to a Championship season.

Christ.
Huh? Tebow does not play for the Sox.

Lip Man 1
12-22-2011, 11:25 AM
Farmer:

Because teams that are desperate for starting pitching now have one less person as a potential option.

The number of potential pitchers to be acquired in a deal just got smaller by one, that means if you want one of the remaining starters left who could be available (notice I said could be) you need to pay the price.

It's no different from late July when the clock starts ticking towards the trade deadline.

Someone might panic or over pay.

Lip

Thome25
12-22-2011, 11:25 AM
Points well taken. However the crystal ball being what it is, there was no way to predict all of them would fall apart after leaving, just like there is no way to tell if this is a smart move or if Danks' shoulder is a ticking time bomb.

And Danks was not better than any of those pitchers at the same time. Not even close.

My point is that the five-year option was never given to Buehrle as recently as 2007, so why Danks, in a rebuilding year to boot? Is this a sign of things to come? Will JR/KW open their wallets to FA starters now?

Just like Cliff Lee in 2010, Danks would have more value into the season if he has a solid year in 2012. A contender will pay the price down the stretch if they believe that player will help the team.

And BTW, don't think Danks won't hear the gripes in this forum if he has another 2011 seaosn in 2012. I can hear them already. :smile:

I understand exactly what you're saying and I too wonder why the sudden change in philosophy.

I've been a Sox fan for 22 years now all of which were under the current regime.

It has been their unwritten rule not to give pitchers 5+ year deals. They were so steadfast on not giving pitchers contracts of 5 years or more that all fan and management favorite Mark Buehrle ever got was a 4-year deal. If you're going to break the rule for anyone, it would've been Burls 4 years ago.

Once Danks' deal is finally announced, this would be a good question for the media to ask KW and company.

I hope it isn't what I suspect which would be that they gave him a longer deal to pump up his trade value.

sullythered
12-22-2011, 11:28 AM
I hope it isn't what I suspect which would be that they gave him a longer deal to pump up his trade value.

I thought you couldn't trade somebody with new paper for like a year.

KMcMahon817
12-22-2011, 11:28 AM
Alex Fernandez was 26, Wilson Alvarez 27, while Mark Buehrle and Jack McDowell were 28 when they were getting to the same stage in their careers as Danks is now.

All of them came off solid seasons as well, had no major injuries during their prime years, and the White Sox didn't make the five-year exception for them, and all had better numbers that they achieved during the steroid era.

So again, what makes Danks so special that he gets five years over any of these guys, on a team that says it is rebuilding?

Why do you care? Does it hurt your feelings that the SOX didn't offer Fernandez, Alvarez and Buehrle a 5 year contract at the same age?

Danks is really good. His career numbers would be a whole lot better if he didn't get some of the worst run support in the MLB.

I don't get why anybody would question this move. It was a great extension whether the SOX decide to rebuild or not.

doublem23
12-22-2011, 11:29 AM
I thought you couldn't trade somebody with new paper for like a year.

Well I'm not sure how that works with the new CBA but in the old one it was definitely true for players who had been signed from free agency, but I'm not 100% sure if that also applied to guys who signed an extension with their current team like Danks just did.

Thome25
12-22-2011, 11:29 AM
I thought you couldn't trade somebody with new paper for like a year.

I'm pretty sure that in the MLB, they can trade him shortly after the deal is signed if they wanted. Barring a no-trade clause etc. Unless there are provisions against it in the new CBA.

KMcMahon817
12-22-2011, 11:34 AM
I thought you couldn't trade somebody with new paper for like a year.

I don't see how it is any different than the SOX extending Serg and then trading him a few months later.

That said, I don't think the SOX plan on trading Danks this offseason any longer. Which makes me incredibly happy. :D:

Thome25
12-22-2011, 11:38 AM
I understand exactly what you're saying and I too wonder why the sudden change in philosophy.

I've been a Sox fan for 22 years now all of which were under the current regime.

It has been their unwritten rule not to give pitchers 5+ year deals. They were so steadfast on not giving pitchers contracts of 5 years or more that all fan and management favorite Mark Buehrle ever got was a 4-year deal. If you're going to break the rule for anyone, it would've been Burls 4 years ago.

Once Danks' deal is finally announced, this would be a good question for the media to ask KW and company.

I hope it isn't what I suspect which would be that they gave him a longer deal to pump up his trade value.

Why do you care? Does it hurt your feelings that the SOX didn't offer Fernandez, Alvarez and Buehrle a 5 year contract at the same age?

Danks is really good. His career numbers would be a whole lot better if he didn't get some of the worst run support in the MLB.

I don't get why anybody would question this move. It was a great extension whether the SOX decide to rebuild or not.

See my post above. I don't think the poster that you quoted was implying that Danks wasn't worthy of a 5 year deal.

I think (unless I'm mistaken...which is quite possible.) that the question is why the Sox are suddenly changing their philosophy on long-term deals for pitchers.

They've had plenty that were worthy of 5 year deals over the years (Mark Buehrle above all.) but, suddenly changed their unwritten rule for John Danks.

It's both interesting and puzzling.

soxinem1
12-22-2011, 12:03 PM
I don't see how it is any different than the SOX extending Serg and then trading him a few months later.

That said, I don't think the SOX plan on trading Danks this offseason any longer. Which makes me incredibly happy. :D:

The rules were different for FA signings versus extensions for players you already had on your roster.

IIRC, if a player was traded a year into a FA contract three years or over, the player can demand a trade after the conclusion of the season to follow.

Saying that, I remember CHC trading Mel Rojas only months after signing him as a FA to a multi-year deal, but that was some time ago.

Why do you care? Does it hurt your feelings that the SOX didn't offer Fernandez, Alvarez and Buehrle a 5 year contract at the same age?

Danks is really good. His career numbers would be a whole lot better if he didn't get some of the worst run support in the MLB.

I don't get why anybody would question this move. It was a great extension whether the SOX decide to rebuild or not.

Well, for a team that has signed two major FA starters in the last 30 years to multi-year contracts (Floyd Bannister @ 5 yrs., Jamie Navarro @ 4 yrs.), yes, I do think the question has to be asked why the sudden change in philosophy towards starters.

KMcMahon817
12-22-2011, 12:17 PM
See my post above. I don't think the poster that you quoted was implying that Danks wasn't worthy of a 5 year deal.

I think (unless I'm mistaken...which is quite possible.) that the question is why the Sox are suddenly changing their philosophy on long-term deals for pitchers.

They've had plenty that were worthy of 5 year deals over the years (Mark Buehrle above all.) but, suddenly changed their unwritten rule for John Danks.

It's both interesting and puzzling.

It was likely simply because Danks wanted the 5th year, or he wouldn't sign the contract. If the 5th year was the difference between being able to sign him, or having to trade him for peanuts, or worse, letting him walk in a year...then it was a good decision.

And plus, the SOX already had Danks under contract for 2012. So really, the contract is only buying out four years of free agency. Maybe that is why KW broke this "unwritten rule". Either way...it was a good move.

TaylorStSox
12-22-2011, 01:33 PM
Danks is a good choice for a cornerstone to build around.

Danks and Santos signing below market value tells me the reports of the organization/ clubhouse being in turmoil are absolute bull****.

I still heart KW.

LITTLE NELL
12-22-2011, 01:47 PM
Keeping Danks and letting Buerhle go is probably the better move. Buerhle was given way too much by the Marlins and is Danks is 5 years younger than Mark. Only downside is the 5 years.

kittle42
12-22-2011, 02:55 PM
Keeping Danks and letting Buerhle go is probably the better move. Buerhle was given way too much by the Marlins and is Danks is 5 years younger than Mark. Only downside is the 5 years.

I still don't see how it is a downside unless he's suddenly going to blow at 30.

SoxSpeed22
12-22-2011, 03:17 PM
$65 million is a bit pricey, but he can be a good guy to build around. If the Sox decide to score some runs for him next year and is he develops something to get lefties out with, he can have a better year.

Chrisaway
12-22-2011, 03:22 PM
This is great but are we gonna trade for a closer now?

Frater Perdurabo
12-22-2011, 03:25 PM
This is great but are we gonna trade for a closer now?

I think the game situation will dictate who Ventura chooses to close out a win, at least to begin the year.

FarmerAndy
12-22-2011, 03:32 PM
Farmer:

Because teams that are desperate for starting pitching now have one less person as a potential option.

The number of potential pitchers to be acquired in a deal just got smaller by one, that means if you want one of the remaining starters left who could be available (notice I said could be) you need to pay the price.

It's no different from late July when the clock starts ticking towards the trade deadline.

Someone might panic or over pay.

Lip

We're not talking about aces here. John Danks being off the market isn't going to push the price up on Gavin Floyd anything significant.

And why are we going under the premise that John Danks is off the trade market?

After this signing, who has greater trade value? Danks or Floyd?

You are correct about the trade deadline and teams being desperate. But the deadline itself pushes up the prices, and the amount of other contending teams who are desperate to land a certain player. But the off-season trade market isn't nearly that intense. If a Felix Hernandez type is on the block, then you might see teams falling over themselves to outbid each other. I don't think there will be a Gavin Floyd bidding war.

I'm definately curious to see how it all unfolds, though.

russ99
12-22-2011, 03:32 PM
I think the game situation will dictate who Ventura chooses to close out a win, at least to begin the year.

Considering Thornton's struggles at closing, and the good chance he may still be dealt before pitchers and catchers report, Jesse Crain has to be the closer at this point.

Thought it would be nice to see Addison Reed push him for the job in camp.

Lip Man 1
12-22-2011, 03:44 PM
Farmer:

Floyd has a managable contract, usually wins in double figures, usually pitches at least 150+ innings a year.

In today's game with pitching a scarce item that's worth something. A team might feel that's worth a lot.

I'd be shocked if Danks goes anywhere in the short term.

Lip

FarmerAndy
12-22-2011, 04:13 PM
Farmer:

Floyd has a managable contract, usually wins in double figures, usually pitches at least 150+ innings a year.

In today's game with pitching a scarce item that's worth something. A team might feel that's worth a lot.

I'd be shocked if Danks goes anywhere in the short term.

Lip

I'm not trying to say that Floyd doesn't have some value. But I don't see that value being significantly increased by Danks being off the market.

Managable contract: You are correct.

Wins double digits: That is a team dependent stat that means absolutely nothing when evaluating a pitcher's talent. There is not a single GM out there who looks at win/loss record when evaluating pitchers. (And if there is, he should be fired.) Think about it, you could just as easily say that Floyd gives you double digit losses. (One game below .500 last season.)

At least 150 innings every year: You are correct.

Starting pitching of this type is not THAT scarce. Great starting piching, yes. But average starters who eat up some innings and don't suck, those guys are not that scarce. And that's what Floyd is.

MLB average ERA in 2011: 3.94
Gavin Floyd ERA in 2011: 4.37


There are teams out there who could use a Gavin Floyd. No doubt. But he's not the kind of pitcher whose value will skyrocket because there's one less guy on the off-season trade market.

kittle42
12-22-2011, 04:16 PM
This is great but are we gonna trade for a closer now?

Why should they? They're still not playing for 2012 at this point. Danks could easily be a key part of a rebuild.

gobears1987
12-22-2011, 04:23 PM
I'm glad that Danks is locked up at a good price. If the Sox are even thinking about contending this year, why would they have traded Santos? This makes no sense to me.

As far as Danks is concerned, it takes some of the sting away from losing Buehrle. I'm also OK with moving Sale into the rotation, but I want to add that his delivery scares me as the inverted W is very closely tied to major shoulder and elbow problems.

soxinem1
12-22-2011, 04:33 PM
Danks is a good choice for a cornerstone to build around.

Danks and Santos signing below market value tells me the reports of the organization/ clubhouse being in turmoil are absolute bull****.

I still heart KW.

Not really a good example.

A converted SS who choked down the stretch as a closer with no leverage in contract negotiations getting a 3 yr/$9 million deal, and a SP one year from FA coming off an injury-shortened 8 win season getting $65 million guaranteed for the next five years sounds more like job security.

KMcMahon817
12-22-2011, 05:03 PM
I think the game situation will dictate who Ventura chooses to close out a win, at least to begin the year.

I don't think so. Ventura has specifically said that he doesn't want a closer by committee.

TaylorStSox
12-22-2011, 05:03 PM
Not really a good example.

A converted SS who choked down the stretch as a closer with no leverage in contract negotiations getting a 3 yr/$9 million deal, and a SP one year from FA coming off an injury-shortened 8 win season getting $65 million guaranteed for the next five years sounds more like job security.

Both players would get more in the open market. Maybe they like(d) pitching for the Sox?

Vernam
12-22-2011, 05:07 PM
Congrats, Johnny, and I hope they included a clause barring you from talking to that piece of **** columnist you dished to last week. You're better than that.

Vernam

TheVulture
12-22-2011, 05:21 PM
Keeping Danks and letting Buerhle go is probably the better move. Buerhle was given way too much by the Marlins and is Danks is 5 years younger than Mark. Only downside is the 5 years.

If the Danks deal is good, there is no way Buehrle was given too much by the Marlins. Buehrle is the better pitcher. Danks has been too inefficient to be more than a six inning pitcher. Even when pitching well, he's usually pushing 100 pitches by the 5th inning.

That said, I'm glad the Sox signed Danks, hopefully he will develop into a pitcher the quality of Mark Buehrle.

BoKnowsBest
12-22-2011, 05:28 PM
This is great but are we gonna trade for a closer now?

Why trade for a closer when its obvious the Sox have a pretty good eye for identifying potential closers off the scrap heap and getting good results? I mean Hermanson, then Shingo, then Jenks, and finally Santos. It looks like they've got a pretty good eye for that kind of thing, so why over pay for a closer when you can develop one for cheap?

A. Cavatica
12-22-2011, 06:20 PM
Now that Danks is signed, all the White Sox need to happen for 2012 is: Dunn, Rios, Beckham and Morel have to hit. Konerko and AJ continue to hit, and Peavy and Sale pitch well in the rotation. If all of this happens we can look forward to a Championship season.

Yeah, that's all we need. On paper this team is a juggernaut. They could be even better than the 2011 Red Sox.

palehozenychicty
12-22-2011, 08:02 PM
I like the deal. I like Danks too. Now I want to see him go deeper into games. That has been the caveat about him for me. It's why he's good and not great. Yet. He has had poor run support, for whatever reason. Maybe the team will hit better, and he can elevate his status.

SoxSpeed22
12-22-2011, 08:06 PM
Why trade for a closer when its obvious the Sox have a pretty good eye for identifying potential closers off the scrap heap and getting good results? I mean Hermanson, then Shingo, then Jenks, and finally Santos. It looks like they've got a pretty good eye for that kind of thing, so why over pay for a closer when you can develop one for cheap?I think Reed will do a pretty good job for us. You don't need to pay K-Rod money for a solid closer.

thomas35forever
12-22-2011, 08:23 PM
Why trade for a closer when its obvious the Sox have a pretty good eye for identifying potential closers off the scrap heap and getting good results? I mean Hermanson, then Shingo, then Jenks, and finally Santos. It looks like they've got a pretty good eye for that kind of thing, so why over pay for a closer when you can develop one for cheap?
Shingo got here before Hermanson, but I see what you're getting at here.

Noneck
12-22-2011, 08:34 PM
Now I want to see him go deeper into games.

With the loss of Santos and Sale going to the rotation , he will be going deeper next year.

WhiteSox5187
12-22-2011, 09:06 PM
Why trade for a closer when its obvious the Sox have a pretty good eye for identifying potential closers off the scrap heap and getting good results? I mean Hermanson, then Shingo, then Jenks, and finally Santos. It looks like they've got a pretty good eye for that kind of thing, so why over pay for a closer when you can develop one for cheap?

That's a dangerous strategy, last time the White Sox did that was 2007 and look at how good that bullpen was.

BoKnowsBest
12-22-2011, 09:27 PM
That's a dangerous strategy, last time the White Sox did that was 2007 and look at how good that bullpen was.

You mean the year Jenks had 40 saves, a 2.77 ERA, and 0.892 WHIP? Seems that part of the pen worked out well. I'm not saying that's how they should go after the whole bullpen, but they've done well with cheap, unproven closers.

Brian26
12-22-2011, 09:48 PM
I don't give a ****, he's probably just better than any of them.

There's no way Danks is better than Buehrle or McDowell, and its very questionable he's better than Alvarez or Fernandez.

Brian26
12-22-2011, 10:40 PM
Talk about overpaying someone.

I would have given Buehrle the $56 million for four before giving Danks $65 million for five, even with the six year age difference.

It would not surprise me if Buehrle's career outlasts Danks'.

SoxNation05
12-22-2011, 10:52 PM
I would have given Buehrle the $56 million for four before giving Danks $65 million for five, even with the six year age difference.

It would not surprise me if Buehrle's career outlasts Danks'.
HA! Unless Buehrle pulls a Jamie Moyer I'll take Danks.

Lorenzo Barcelo
12-22-2011, 11:13 PM
I would have given Buehrle the $56 million for four before giving Danks $65 million for five, even with the six year age difference.

It would not surprise me if Buehrle's career outlasts Danks'.

Danks and Buehrle's fWar are nearly identical from 2008 on. If you are to dish out the coin you have to go Danks over Buehrle.

Also, from a poster on southsidesox:


Buehrle's Last 3 years
4 days rest=45 starts/4.48 ERA
5 days=37 starts/3.82
6 days=15 starts/2.47

Six man rotation really preserved Buehrle last season. Let's see what Ozzie will do to preserve him.

asindc
12-23-2011, 12:42 AM
That's a dangerous strategy, last time the White Sox did that was 2007 and look at how good that bullpen was.

Actually, the last time we did that was this past season.

doublem23
12-23-2011, 06:01 AM
I would have given Buehrle the $56 million for four before giving Danks $65 million for five, even with the six year age difference.

It would not surprise me if Buehrle's career outlasts Danks'.

There's no way Buehrle keeps it up unless you keep him in a 6-man rotation. Buehrle had not looked good pitching in the standard 5-man rotation for the last at least 2 seasons, he only enjoyed a nice resurgence in 2011 because he was afforded more time to rest between starts. I love Buehrle, will miss him, but there's no way you take him over Danks if the money is equal.

Frater Perdurabo
12-23-2011, 06:09 AM
Buehrle will thrive in Miami by avoiding the DH and pitching home games at sea level. We will need to examine league- and park-adjusted stats to compare Buehrle and Danks moving forward.

doublem23
12-23-2011, 06:19 AM
Buehrle will thrive in Miami by avoiding the DH and pitching home games at sea level. We will need to examine league- and park-adjusted stats to compare Buehrle and Danks moving forward.

I think he's moving to a tougher division, though. Gone are the days of gimme's against the Royals and Indians are replaced by games against the Phillies, Braves, and upwardly moving Nationals. So we'll see.

DumpJerry
12-23-2011, 07:17 AM
Buehrle will thrive in Miami by avoiding the DH and pitching home games at sea level. We will need to examine league- and park-adjusted stats to compare Buehrle and Danks moving forward.
Home games at sea level? Come on, we're not Denver, we're 600 feet above sea level. That, along with the flatness of the course, is why some of the fastest Marathon times are run in Chicago.

Anyway, Mark will have to figure out how his change up will break in the face of a Cat. V hurricane.......

russ99
12-23-2011, 08:37 AM
Starting pitching of this type is not THAT scarce. Great starting piching, yes. But average starters who eat up some innings and don't suck, those guys are not that scarce. And that's what Floyd is.

MLB average ERA in 2011: 3.94
Gavin Floyd ERA in 2011: 4.37


There are teams out there who could use a Gavin Floyd. No doubt. But he's not the kind of pitcher whose value will skyrocket because there's one less guy on the off-season trade market.

A.L. average is 4.08. Floyd isn't that far away from average.

The question mark with Gavin is why he hasn't turned the corner yet at age 28 (29 in January) and after close to 1000 IP. He had a good year in 2008, but has regressed since.

Also he's a righthander, which are much less in demand.

May be a good idea for Kenny to hold onto Gavin until the SP free agents get signed and teams get more desperate for a starter.

Brian26
12-23-2011, 09:22 AM
HA! Unless Buehrle pulls a Jamie Moyer I'll take Danks.

Let's hope, then, that Danks doesn't pull a Steve Trout or a Greg Hibbard.

I certainly don't see it as an impossibility that a soft-tossing, smart pitcher like Buehrle could pitch successfully until he's 40. Like I've said all along, the money invested in Buehrle is greater value to the Sox than any other team when you consider the off-the-field value and perception of the fanbase.

KenBerryGrab
12-23-2011, 09:51 AM
Let's hope, then, that Danks doesn't pull a Steve Trout or a Greg Hibbard.


<Shivers>

At least Trout got inflicted on the other side of town as well.

SOXSINCE'70
12-23-2011, 10:33 AM
I think he's moving to a tougher division, though. Gone are the days of gimme's against the Royals and Indians are replaced by games against the Phillies, Braves, and upwardly moving Nationals. So we'll see.


Still waiting for the first time he pitches against Vance Worley and the Phils.:D: A Worley/Beuhrle matchup.:rolleyes:

soxinem1
12-23-2011, 10:46 AM
Buehrle will thrive in Miami by avoiding the DH and pitching home games at sea level. We will need to examine league- and park-adjusted stats to compare Buehrle and Danks moving forward.

I think the numbers regarding days rest speak for themselves. Plus, MIA does not have a ton of starting rotation depth, at least as of today. Buehrle may not get many six-day rest opportunities, if any.

In the end, days rest and facing so many tough NL East opponents will out-weigh DH and environmental issues.

Let's hope, then, that Danks doesn't pull a Steve Trout or a Greg Hibbard.

Greg Hibbard was the second worst FA signing in SEA history after Carlos Silva. The Mariners gave him a ton of money one year after he was an expansion team draft pick. He got hurt and dropped off the map faster than you can say Mike Sirotka and Jim Parque.

kittle42
12-23-2011, 11:06 AM
Still waiting for the first time he pitches against Vance Worley and the Phils.:D: A Worley/Beuhrle matchup.:rolleyes:

Ron Santo would have spent an entire broadcast being bemused by such a thing, as he once was by the name Uggla.

FarmerAndy
12-23-2011, 11:48 AM
A.L. average is 4.08. Floyd isn't that far away from average.

The question mark with Gavin is why he hasn't turned the corner yet at age 28 (29 in January) and after close to 1000 IP. He had a good year in 2008, but has regressed since.

Also he's a righthander, which are much less in demand.

May be a good idea for Kenny to hold onto Gavin until the SP free agents get signed and teams get more desperate for a starter.

Agreed 100%

Gavin = average was my point, in response to the notion that pitching was "scarce" out there. Pitchers like him aren't that rare, and Danks getting signed isn't going to effect his value.

In my opinon (which doesn't really matter :smile:), it's best to hang on to any chips like this in the off season. It seems that teams are often willing to give more in return before the trade deadline. The need is greater at that point.

bigdommer
12-23-2011, 12:05 PM
Not really a good example.

A converted SS who choked down the stretch as a closer with no leverage in contract negotiations getting a 3 yr/$9 million deal, and a SP one year from FA coming off an injury-shortened 8 win season getting $65 million guaranteed for the next five years sounds more like job security.

Santos with no leverage? Teams can't give up money/prospects fast enough for closers. At 37 y/o, Nathan got 2/14.5 after missing 2010 and an awful 2011. Frank Francisco (31) got 2/12 with numbers slightly worse than Sergio. An inferior Matt Capps got 1 year for 4.75. Jonathon Broxton has been an arsonist for years and got 1 for 4.

Yes, Sergio was under control for a couple more years and lacked leverage. And maybe his signing had nothing to do with the clubhouse. But regardless of what metric you use, his contract was below market and very organization friendly, as the option years were attractive if he became an upper echelon closer, yet voidable if he imploded. Closers are amazingly overvalued when it comes to handing out money (see BJ Ryan, K-Rod, Joe Borowski, Brad Lidge) and if they blow up, you are stuck with them. You can't drop them in the order or "demote" them to the rotation. Time will tell if the Sergio trade was a good one, but the contract (based on his age, stuff, and to date numbers) is definitely below market and undeniably club friendly.

PalehosePlanet
12-23-2011, 02:44 PM
A.L. average is 4.08. Floyd isn't that far away from average.

The question mark with Gavin is why he hasn't turned the corner yet at age 28 (29 in January) and after close to 1000 IP. He had a good year in 2008, but has regressed since.

Also he's a righthander, which are much less in demand.

May be a good idea for Kenny to hold onto Gavin until the SP free agents get signed and teams get more desperate for a starter.

Actually, he was better in 2009 than in 2008; just unlucky, look at all of the numbers not just wins and losses. He also had a two month stretch in 2010 where he was the best pitcher in baseball.

The general problem w/Gavin has always been that he's terrible the first 5 or six weeks of the season. He seems to get in a groove in the middle months when he finds his release point on his curve and slider, then usually wears out, or gets hurt, at the end of August.

Regardless of his streaky nature, and his being a tease with the stuff that he has, he is still a solid #3 or #4 in a rotation. In a great year he could be a 2, in a bad one a 5. Either way, not every pitcher is a front line 1 or 2, some pitchers are inconsistent 3 or 4 types but are still useful to a team. Maybe we just need to temper our expectations a bit.

DirtySox
12-29-2011, 01:07 PM
CST_soxvan Daryl Van Schouwen
Sox announce danks extension: 5 yrs, $65 million as reported
2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Officially official.

DirtySox
12-29-2011, 01:08 PM
CST_soxvan Daryl Van Schouwen
$8 million for 2012 and $14.25 million in each of the 2013-16 seasons
23 seconds ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Bucky F. Dent
12-29-2011, 03:26 PM
:)Happy New Year, Mr. Danks! :)

DirtySox
12-29-2011, 04:05 PM
scottmerkin Scott Merkin
MLB.com has learned Danks has full no-trade in first year of deal, limited no-trade over next four years. More to come.
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DonnieDarko
12-29-2011, 04:12 PM
scottmerkin Scott Merkin
MLB.com has learned Danks has full no-trade in first year of deal, limited no-trade over next four years. More to come.
5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Welp. There goes the idea that the Sox signed him just to trade him.

BleacherBandit
12-29-2011, 11:13 PM
Welp. There goes the idea that the Sox signed him just to trade him.

Was that ever a suspicion?

soxnut1018
12-30-2011, 08:01 PM
OzzieGuillen Ozzie Guillen
congrats danks awesome my second favorite lefty of all time now u can feed u dog better and buy a new truck
1 minute ago

doublem23
12-30-2011, 08:12 PM
Was that ever a suspicion?

A little bit, depending on how its structured, 5 years/$65 M is a very competitive deal for Danks, some people did speculate that the Sox might have signed him to a sweet deal with a hometown discount only to flip him before the ink dried.

Happy to see John will be a mainstay in the rotation for quite some time now. Takes some of the sting out of seeing Buehrle in those ridiculous Marlins colors.

gobears1987
12-30-2011, 08:28 PM
OzzieGuillen Ozzie Guillen
congrats danks awesome my second favorite lefty of all time now u can feed u dog better and buy a new truck
1 minute ago

Who is his favorite?

soxnut1018
12-30-2011, 08:47 PM
Who is his favorite?

Andrew Sisco.

KMcMahon817
12-30-2011, 10:31 PM
Who is his favorite?

Boone Logan.

#1swisher
01-10-2012, 11:47 AM
scottmerkin

Interesting note on John Danks: His 2012 salary is $500,000. He then
gets a $7.5 million signing bonus, paid between June, '12 and
Oct., '12

doublem23
01-10-2012, 12:31 PM
scottmerkin

Interesting note on John Danks: His 2012 salary is $500,000. He then
gets a $7.5 million signing bonus, paid between June, '12 and
Oct., '12

Kenny, you sly dog.