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Southsider101
12-13-2011, 06:55 PM
This link is from Chicago Magazine and provides a cautionary tale about the Tampa Bay Rays:

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/The-312/December-2011/Baseball-Stadiums-and-Public-Transportation/

LITTLE NELL
12-14-2011, 02:21 PM
They need to move up near the St Pete Times Forum where they would be right in the middle of their fan base. It was a disgrace that they could not even draw 30,000 for their last playoff game against the Rangers.
I watch just about all their games and they are fun to watch, are well managed and have a real good pitching staff. Unless something is done PDQ in regards to a new stadium they soon be history in Tampa Bay.


PS. Just read something, all 162 games that the Rays played this year were started by a pitcher that they drafted and came up through the Rays system. That amazing.

Frater Perdurabo
12-14-2011, 03:52 PM
Excellent article. I agree with the writer's premise.

The Cell is in something of a mass transit "sweet spot," with easy access to the Red and Green lines, and the Rock Island Metra.

In addition, there is a proposal to re-work the 75th Street Corridor, (http://www.75thcip.org/) which among many other things would allow the Metra Southwest Service to transition to the Rock Island tracks at 75th Street and terminate at LaSalle Street Station. (SWS currently terminates at Union Station and runs just west of the Cell). If this project was funded and completed, then SWS Metra trains also could stop at 35th Street, opening up easy public transit to the Cell to folks living in Oak Lawn, Chicago Ridge, Worth, Palos, Orland and Manhattan. If so, the Cell would be unmatched in its transit connectivity.

Southsider101
12-14-2011, 04:06 PM
It really works well here in Minneapolis since the light rail or North Star commuter trains will take you right to Target Field. The light rail station is located next to Gate 6 and the commuter rail station is located below the stadium. I never thought I'd see it here in Minnesota but when you plan public transportation and adjacent venues with some thought, people will use them. Today, I know many people who never used public transit who are regular riders now.

Foulke You
12-14-2011, 06:46 PM
Excellent article. I agree with the writer's premise.

The Cell is in something of a mass transit "sweet spot," with easy access to the Red and Green lines, and the Rock Island Metra.

In addition, there is a proposal to re-work the 75th Street Corridor, (http://www.75thcip.org/) which among many other things would allow the Metra Southwest Service to transition to the Rock Island tracks at 75th Street and terminate at LaSalle Street Station. (SWS currently terminates at Union Station and runs just west of the Cell). If this project was funded and completed, then SWS Metra trains also could stop at 35th Street, opening up easy public transit to the Cell to folks living in Oak Lawn, Chicago Ridge, Worth, Palos, Orland and Manhattan. If so, the Cell would be unmatched in its transit connectivity.
CTA trains serve the Sox area, but the problem is that the service has been in free fall decline the last 5 years. I can't speak about Metra but I rarely take the L anymore. Late trains, less trains, trains that are packed to the gills with no room to even stand, slow zones, work zones, increased fare rates, increased parking rates at the train stations, have all hurt ridership. I used to take the Blue Line and transfer to the Red or Green all the time for Sox games. Now, I don't even bother with it, I just drive. The cost is only slightly more to drive and I'm far more comfortable and get to be in the comfort of my car. The L is simply too expensive, too slow, and too unreliable for me to take anymore.

DumpJerry
12-14-2011, 10:10 PM
CTA trains serve the Sox area, but the problem is that the service has been in free fall decline the last 5 years. I can't speak about Metra but I rarely take the L anymore. Late trains, less trains, trains that are packed to the gills with no room to even stand, slow zones, work zones, increased fare rates, increased parking rates at the train stations, have all hurt ridership. I used to take the Blue Line and transfer to the Red or Green all the time for Sox games. Now, I don't even bother with it, I just drive. The cost is only slightly more to drive and I'm far more comfortable and get to be in the comfort of my car. The L is simply too expensive, too slow, and too unreliable for me to take anymore.
I can tell you have not taken the El to a Sox game in a long time.

Milw
12-14-2011, 10:59 PM
CTA trains serve the Sox area, but the problem is that the service has been in free fall decline the last 5 years. I can't speak about Metra but I rarely take the L anymore. Late trains, less trains, trains that are packed to the gills with no room to even stand, slow zones, work zones, increased fare rates, increased parking rates at the train stations, have all hurt ridership. I used to take the Blue Line and transfer to the Red or Green all the time for Sox games. Now, I don't even bother with it, I just drive. The cost is only slightly more to drive and I'm far more comfortable and get to be in the comfort of my car. The L is simply too expensive, too slow, and too unreliable for me to take anymore.
I've also never been mugged in my car, which is more than I can say for the L.

DumpJerry
12-15-2011, 08:16 AM
I've also never been mugged in my car, which is more than I can say for the L.
What's your point? I've never been mugged in either place.

DonnieDarko
12-15-2011, 09:59 AM
CTA trains serve the Sox area, but the problem is that the service has been in free fall decline the last 5 years. I can't speak about Metra but I rarely take the L anymore. Late trains, less trains, trains that are packed to the gills with no room to even stand, slow zones, work zones, increased fare rates, increased parking rates at the train stations, have all hurt ridership. I used to take the Blue Line and transfer to the Red or Green all the time for Sox games. Now, I don't even bother with it, I just drive. The cost is only slightly more to drive and I'm far more comfortable and get to be in the comfort of my car. The L is simply too expensive, too slow, and too unreliable for me to take anymore.

The hell? Parking at the park is only slightly more expensive than taking the train? You apparently have not taken the L in a long time. Either that, or you seem to think that a $15+ difference is only "slightly more expensive". Also, if you find the red line is packed? Wait for the next train. Honestly, that always works like a charm for me.

I don't know what you consider to be "less trains", but I find that after Sox games there's another Red Line train running 10 minutes behind the one that just pulled away. 10 minutes at MOST.

Also, I've almost been mugged on the Red Line before (I was in high school and taking the Red Line home in the early morning), but apparently flashing a firearm tends to disuade people who try to rob you with knives. :P

Hendu
12-15-2011, 02:31 PM
CTA trains serve the Sox area, but the problem is that the service has been in free fall decline the last 5 years. I can't speak about Metra but I rarely take the L anymore. Late trains, less trains, trains that are packed to the gills with no room to even stand, slow zones, work zones, increased fare rates, increased parking rates at the train stations, have all hurt ridership. I used to take the Blue Line and transfer to the Red or Green all the time for Sox games. Now, I don't even bother with it, I just drive. The cost is only slightly more to drive and I'm far more comfortable and get to be in the comfort of my car. The L is simply too expensive, too slow, and too unreliable for me to take anymore.

Except rail ridership is up.

http://www.chicagonow.com/cta-tattler/2011/06/cta-rides-numbers-game-ridership-up-slightly-overall-but-rail-rides-rule/

BTW, there are far fewer slow zones on the CTA than there were even a few years ago.


I've also never been mugged in my car, which is more than I can say for the L.

I've also never known anyone who received a DUI riding the el home from a Sox game, which is more than I can say for driving.

If driving is your preference, fine. But there are major disadvantages to driving instead of taking public transit.

doublem23
12-15-2011, 02:46 PM
Also it should be pointed out that over the next 4 years, the Red Line is getting a near complete makeover to the tune of $1 billion.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20111103/BLOGS02/111109890/cta-red-line-to-get-1-billion-makeover

Brian26
12-15-2011, 07:56 PM
Also, I've almost been mugged on the Red Line before (I was in high school and taking the Red Line home in the early morning), but apparently flashing a firearm tends to disuade people who try to rob you with knives. :P

I don't even know where to start with this comment.

DumpJerry
12-15-2011, 09:50 PM
I don't even know where to start with this comment.
http://thestorydepartment.com/tsd/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/sean_connery_the_untouchables.jpg
Allow me to explain.....

Fenway
12-15-2011, 10:14 PM
Certainly all the parks in the Northeast thrive on transit.

Boston - anyone who brings their car anywhere near Fenway is insane...the T has 2 subway stations and a commuter rail all close to the park.

NY - Yankee Stadium is on 3 subway lines and now has a Metro-North stop - Citi Field is on the 7 line and LIRR access.

Philly has the Broad St Subway (hold your nose)

Balto and DC are good as well.

SF, Oakland and Seattle have decent transit.

Some parks you need a car (Tampa - KC come to mind)

DumpJerry
12-15-2011, 10:41 PM
Some parks you need a car (Tampa - KC come to mind)
I hear that Mr. Pujols' new home is car-only.

DSpivack
12-15-2011, 10:53 PM
I hear that Mr. Pujols' new home is car-only.

It's in Orange County and Southern California. The entire area may as well be car-only.

DonnieDarko
12-16-2011, 09:49 AM
I don't even know where to start with this comment.

To be fair, it wasn't my idea...

...though I did go along with it, of course. >_>

dickallen15
12-17-2011, 08:54 AM
Except rail ridership is up.

http://www.chicagonow.com/cta-tattler/2011/06/cta-rides-numbers-game-ridership-up-slightly-overall-but-rail-rides-rule/

BTW, there are far fewer slow zones on the CTA than there were even a few years ago.




I've also never known anyone who received a DUI riding the el home from a Sox game, which is more than I can say for driving.

If driving is your preference, fine. But there are major disadvantages to driving instead of taking public transit.

As someone who has taken the Red Line to White Sox games for 22 seasons, it was far worse in 2011 than ever before. At one point during the season, heading south was a slow zone from Roosevelt all the way to 35th. I get on at Clark/Division. It was an average of about 45 minutes from leaving my home to getting through the gate this year. Back in the day, it was no more than 25. There is a slow zone the CTA said would be fixed 2 years ago right when you leave the Clark/Division station. That hasn't been worked on yet. You know do move a bit although there is intermitent slow areas in the subway portion south of Roosevelt. Once you get to the Chinatown station, you go so slow you really wonder if its not safe to go 10 mph, why is it safe to go 5 mph? And you also always crawl into the 35th street station. I still take it rather than drive, although it is pretty easy to get a parking permit in the street if you go to a bar or restaurant before the game.

Fenway
12-17-2011, 09:12 AM
It's in Orange County and Southern California. The entire area may as well be car-only.

In theory you can take a commuter train from LA to Anaheim to see a game...

you just can't get back afterwards until the next day

http://www.metrolinktrains.com/schedules/html.php?id=1111

Foulke You
12-18-2011, 05:00 PM
The hell? Parking at the park is only slightly more expensive than taking the train? You apparently have not taken the L in a long time. Either that, or you seem to think that a $15+ difference is only "slightly more expensive".
I should have clarified that I include round trip fare costs with the parking fees. Combined fare cost for my wife and I with parking at the train station is VERY close to the price of Sox parking lots. I live in Des Plaines so I get on the L at Rosemont or Cumberland on the Blue Line. Parking at either Cumberland or Rosemont is $5 now ($6 at Rosemont). $6 + $2.25 x 4 fares (2 fare trips there, 2 fare trips back) = $15. If my friend comes with the two of us, we are now up to $19.50 total. Parking at Comiskey is $23 which is only 4 to 7 dollars more depending on how many are in my group. It used to be a great bargain when parking was $1.50 and fares were $1.50 which really wasn't that long ago.

Also, if you find the red line is packed? Wait for the next train. Honestly, that always works like a charm for me.

During rush hour this wasn't doing the trick. I started switching to the green line which is less crowded but the trains don't run as frequent as the red.


I don't know what you consider to be "less trains", but I find that after Sox games there's another Red Line train running 10 minutes behind the one that just pulled away. 10 minutes at MOST.
Again, I have to switch to the blue line on my return trip. I pick up a train from the ballpark very quickly as you said but then I have to stare at the wall forever at Jackson, Washington, or Clark/Lake waiting for the next blue line train to come. At night time, they are very infrequent and when they do arrive, they are often only 2 or 3 cars long, already packed with people, and I'm left to stand for 10+ stops. My commutes home from the ballpark used to be 45-55 minutes tops. When I stopped using the L in 2009, my commute had climbed to 70-80 minutes. I'd rather sit in traffic on the Kennedy than endure the L for that long.

If the L still works for you guys, that's great. I put up with enough terrible service, long commutes, and rising costs a couple years ago to put an end to my use of it for Sox games. It's just my preference.

Foulke You
12-18-2011, 05:04 PM
I can tell you have not taken the El to a Sox game in a long time.
I've taken the L to Sox games literally hundreds of times but no, I haven't used it in a couple years. Does that disqualify me from having an opinion on their service? Also, I doubt very much that you take the same route on the L as I do. I'm coming from the Rosemont Blue Line stop. If you took that route to and from the ball games, you might have a different opinion.

DumpJerry
12-18-2011, 06:08 PM
I've taken the L to Sox games literally hundreds of times but no, I haven't used it in a couple years. Does that disqualify me from having an opinion on their service? Also, I doubt very much that you take the same route on the L as I do. I'm coming from the Rosemont Blue Line stop. If you took that route to and from the ball games, you might have a different opinion.
Until this season, I lived right off the Irving Park stop on the Blue Line. I found it easier and less expensive than driving.

Brian26
12-18-2011, 08:29 PM
I should have clarified that I include round trip fare costs with the parking fees. Combined fare cost for my wife and I with parking at the train station is VERY close to the price of Sox parking lots. I live in Des Plaines so I get on the L at Rosemont or Cumberland on the Blue Line. Parking at either Cumberland or Rosemont is $5 now ($6 at Rosemont). $6 + $2.25 x 4 fares (2 fare trips there, 2 fare trips back) = $15. If my friend comes with the two of us, we are now up to $19.50 total. Parking at Comiskey is $23 which is only 4 to 7 dollars more depending on how many are in my group. It used to be a great bargain when parking was $1.50 and fares were $1.50 which really wasn't that long ago.

Not to diminish your point, but just to add a helpful tip here (and I know we've talked about this before at least once). If you're using a CTA card, you receive one immediate 25-cent transfer every time you go through the turnstyle. So, you should hand your card back to your wife and let her swipe it after you go through. It would save you $2.00 each way, bringing your total trip cost down $4. FWIW.

dickallen15
12-18-2011, 08:57 PM
Not to diminish your point, but just to add a helpful tip here (and I know we've talked about this before at least once). If you're using a CTA card, you receive one immediate 25-cent transfer every time you go through the turnstyle. So, you should hand your card back to your wife and let her swipe it after you go through. It would save you $2.00 each way, bringing your total trip cost down $4. FWIW.

That doesn't work, unless he wants to go through the turnstile and wait 15-20 minutes. Then he can hand it to his wife and it will cost .25.

Fenway
12-18-2011, 09:14 PM
That doesn't work, unless he wants to go through the turnstile and wait 15-20 minutes. Then he can hand it to his wife and it will cost .25.

As long as it is not a weekly or monthly pass you can swipe more than once.

The CTA 'should' consider installing a couple of vending machines at the park itself. People forget to buy RT tickets.

http://www.mbta.com/riding_the_t/redsox/

Brian26
12-18-2011, 09:46 PM
That doesn't work, unless he wants to go through the turnstile and wait 15-20 minutes. Then he can hand it to his wife and it will cost .25.

It's been working for me for years. I go through, hand it back, boom - 25 cents instead of 2.25. I don't understand why this is such a secret to so many people.

doublem23
12-19-2011, 12:03 AM
It's been working for me for years. I go through, hand it back, boom - 25 cents instead of 2.25. I don't understand why this is such a secret to so many people.

Maybe that works if you're using the Chicago card that you just bump on the reader, I don't know, I don't have one of those, but if you're talking about one of the regular old transit cards you get from the giant vending machines in the public areas of stations, it does not work that way. If you pass the same card back after you punch in, it will automatically take a 2nd full fare for the first ride. If you transfer, it will only take the 25 cents for each person on the 1st and second transfer, but that would only apply if you're getting on and off the CTA within 2 hours of your initial entrance. If you're just using a transit card, though, there is no savings if you're using 1 card for a group or everyone has their own, the machines are smarter than us.

doublem23
12-19-2011, 12:07 AM
As long as it is not a weekly or monthly pass you can swipe more than once.

Obviously it works, that's not what we're talking about, Brian is claiming that you don't pay the 2nd full fare for the person behind you which is not true at every CTA station I have ever boarded on and of the 144 active stations, I've probably boarded on over half of them.

Hendu
12-19-2011, 01:08 AM
I should have clarified that I include round trip fare costs with the parking fees. Combined fare cost for my wife and I with parking at the train station is VERY close to the price of Sox parking lots. I live in Des Plaines so I get on the L at Rosemont or Cumberland on the Blue Line. Parking at either Cumberland or Rosemont is $5 now ($6 at Rosemont). $6 + $2.25 x 4 fares (2 fare trips there, 2 fare trips back) = $15. If my friend comes with the two of us, we are now up to $19.50 total. Parking at Comiskey is $23 which is only 4 to 7 dollars more depending on how many are in my group. It used to be a great bargain when parking was $1.50 and fares were $1.50 which really wasn't that long ago.


During rush hour this wasn't doing the trick. I started switching to the green line which is less crowded but the trains don't run as frequent as the red.


Again, I have to switch to the blue line on my return trip. I pick up a train from the ballpark very quickly as you said but then I have to stare at the wall forever at Jackson, Washington, or Clark/Lake waiting for the next blue line train to come. At night time, they are very infrequent and when they do arrive, they are often only 2 or 3 cars long, already packed with people, and I'm left to stand for 10+ stops. My commutes home from the ballpark used to be 45-55 minutes tops. When I stopped using the L in 2009, my commute had climbed to 70-80 minutes. I'd rather sit in traffic on the Kennedy than endure the L for that long.

If the L still works for you guys, that's great. I put up with enough terrible service, long commutes, and rising costs a couple years ago to put an end to my use of it for Sox games. It's just my preference.

Most of the blue line track ties have been replaced since 2009. It's not perfect...yes sometimes they'll still single track or run half-length trains at night/weekends. But seriously as a daily blue line rider, service is sooo much better than it was a few years ago. Remember the slow zones for most of the O'Hare branch, and then through the Dearborn Street subway?

dickallen15
12-19-2011, 07:12 AM
Maybe that works if you're using the Chicago card that you just bump on the reader, I don't know, I don't have one of those, but if you're talking about one of the regular old transit cards you get from the giant vending machines in the public areas of stations, it does not work that way. If you pass the same card back after you punch in, it will automatically take a 2nd full fare for the first ride. If you transfer, it will only take the 25 cents for each person on the 1st and second transfer, but that would only apply if you're getting on and off the CTA within 2 hours of your initial entrance. If you're just using a transit card, though, there is no savings if you're using 1 card for a group or everyone has their own, the machines are smarter than us.
I have a Chicago card and can tell you it does not work. I do wind up with 4 transfers.

dickallen15
12-19-2011, 07:14 AM
As long as it is not a weekly or monthly pass you can swipe more than once.

The CTA 'should' consider installing a couple of vending machines at the park itself. People forget to buy RT tickets.

http://www.mbta.com/riding_the_t/redsox/

You can swipe it, but if you don't wait for a little while, you aren't getting the second ride for $.25. Its going to be full fare. The system is a little smarter than that. You wouldn't get a transfer 5 seconds after going through the turnstiles.

Brian26
12-19-2011, 08:20 AM
Maybe that works if you're using the Chicago card that you just bump on the reader, I don't know, I don't have one of those, but if you're talking about one of the regular old transit cards you get from the giant vending machines in the public areas of stations, it does not work that way. If you pass the same card back after you punch in, it will automatically take a 2nd full fare for the first ride. If you transfer, it will only take the 25 cents for each person on the 1st and second transfer, but that would only apply if you're getting on and off the CTA within 2 hours of your initial entrance. If you're just using a transit card, though, there is no savings if you're using 1 card for a group or everyone has their own, the machines are smarter than us.

Yes, I'm talking about the blue Chicago Card. Are you seriously telling me you're riding the L everyday and still using the old throw-away cards? You get bonus money when you refill the Chicago card, and you potentially can get a refund if you ever lose it while it still has a balance. Its free to sign-up for too.

Brian26
12-19-2011, 08:25 AM
You can swipe it, but if you don't wait for a little while, you aren't getting the second ride for $.25. Its going to be full fare. The system is a little smarter than that. You wouldn't get a transfer 5 seconds after going through the turnstiles.

Worked for me as recently as two weekends ago. No wait at all. Instant 25 cent deduct on the 2nd swipe. Its been working for me for years.

DumpJerry
12-19-2011, 08:29 AM
Yes, I'm talking about the blue Chicago Card. Are you seriously telling me you're riding the L everyday and still using the old throw-away cards? You get bonus money when you.refill the Chicago card, and you potentially can get a refund if you ever lose it while it still has a balance. But, yeah, I've been referring to the Chicago Card. Its free to sign-up for too.
I've used my Chicago Card+ twice in a short period of time and was charged full fare each time. I guess subsequent uses have to be from a different location for the transfer fee to be charged.

FielderJones
12-19-2011, 10:59 AM
You get bonus money when you refill the Chicago card, and you potentially can get a refund if you ever lose it while it still has a balance.

I'm pretty sure the bonus money ($2 on a $20 cash load) is gone. I haven't seen a bonus load on my blue Chicago Card in at least a year, maybe longer.

doublem23
12-19-2011, 11:07 AM
Yes, I'm talking about the blue Chicago Card. Are you seriously telling me you're riding the L everyday and still using the old throw-away cards? You get bonus money when you refill the Chicago card, and you potentially can get a refund if you ever lose it while it still has a balance. Its free to sign-up for too.

No, now I use the 30-day pass, which pays for itself even if you only if you ride the train twice per day 5 days per week, but I usually am on the train or bus a few times every weekend or weeknight, too. Especially in the summer, I'd say I squeeze about $150 worth of fares out of the $80 pass.

When Mrs. Doub comes down to see me after work or we go to Sox games, she usually has the throwaway cards. And I guess I used them occassionally before I was working downtown. Those I know will get charged the full fare if you use them back-to-back.

dickallen15
12-19-2011, 07:48 PM
Worked for me as recently as two weekends ago. No wait at all. Instant 25 cent deduct on the 2nd swipe. Its been working for me for years.
Either you are mistaken or have a glitch in your favor with your card. Better not lose it until it expires. If you scroll down to pass back priviledges, you will see the way it is working for you is not the way it should be working. It doesn't work that way for me or a few others on the board.




http://www.chicago-card.com/cc/faq.aspx

Milw
12-22-2011, 04:02 PM
What's your point? I've never been mugged in either place.
My point is once you've had that happen to you, it becomes a much less appealing option. I still ride the CTA quite often, but I avoid it when possible.

Fenway
12-22-2011, 04:31 PM
Transit is important for many parks - a sample

Washington
http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/was/ballpark/directions/index.jsp?content=metrorail

Baltimore
http://mta.maryland.gov/oriole-park-camden-yards

Philadelphia
http://www.septa.org/events/sports.html

Boston
http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/bos/ballpark/directions/index.jsp?content=subway
http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/bos/ballpark/directions/index.jsp?content=rail

Cleveland
http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/cle/ballpark/directions_parking/index.jsp?content=public_transit

Atlanta
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/atl/ballpark/directions/index.jsp?content=public_transportation

DSpivack
12-22-2011, 04:36 PM
Transit is important for many parks - a sample

Atlanta
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/atl/ballpark/directions/index.jsp?content=public_transportation

The others, sure, and I never drove to RFK or Nats Park when I lived in the DC area.

But Atlanta? That's a laugh. There is no MARTA stop anywhere near Turner Field. I took MARTA a couple times to Hawks/Thrashers games, as it stops right at Phillips Arena, but it's quite a walk to Turner.

Fenway
12-22-2011, 04:41 PM
The others, sure, and I never drove to RFK or Nats Park when I lived in the DC area.

But Atlanta? That's a laugh. There is no MARTA stop anywhere near Turner Field. I took MARTA a couple times to Hawks/Thrashers games, as it stops right at Phillips Arena, but it's quite a walk to Turner.

Says it is a mile walk from MARTA :tongue:

I am amazed they didn't set up a spur line for the Olympics.

MARTA the subway that goes nowhere.

DSpivack
12-22-2011, 04:51 PM
Says it is a mile walk from MARTA :tongue:

I am amazed they didn't set up a spur line for the Olympics.

MARTA the subway that goes nowhere.

Well, there are political reasons for that which I won't mention here.

But besides those, Atlanta, like many other cities in the South or Southwest, was built up and out in the era of the car, and is designed for that.

They are starting to expanda MARTA, though. The Beltline project is a nice start.

I did often take it to the airport, that was fast and convenient.