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View Full Version : Pujols to sign with Angels


Fenway
12-08-2011, 09:03 AM
developing but being confirmed all over Twitter

soltrain21
12-08-2011, 09:03 AM
Tim Brown says Angels get Pujols.

10 years and between 250-260 million.

dwitt76
12-08-2011, 09:04 AM
WOW! Thats a lot of dinero.

gobears1987
12-08-2011, 09:11 AM
WOW! Thats a lot of dinero.

He's going to break a lot of records playing under that contract.

tstrike2000
12-08-2011, 09:13 AM
He's going to break a lot of records playing under that contract.

Especially if he eventually moves to full-time DH.

Chez
12-08-2011, 09:21 AM
He's a .275 hitter in the American League. :cool:

guillensdisciple
12-08-2011, 09:23 AM
Wow....

aryzner
12-08-2011, 09:24 AM
Disappointing.

I wanted to see him play his career with the Cardinals.

g0g0
12-08-2011, 09:26 AM
YES!!! Cubs don't spend mega money on him and he leaves the NL Central. Great news!

:bandance:

Hitmen77
12-08-2011, 09:38 AM
WOW! Thats a lot of dinero.

....until he's 41. The last few years of that contract could be bad for the Angels.

But, I have to give them credit for seizing the opportunity to win over the L.A. market while the Dodgers are down. That's how you run a successful "2nd banana" team in a major market.

Fenway
12-08-2011, 09:39 AM
Texas vs Anaheim has become New York vs Boston. Seattle and Oakland have problems - and I am sure the Astros are thrilled by this.

soltrain21
12-08-2011, 09:40 AM
Texas vs Anaheim has become New York vs Boston. Seattle and Oakland have problems - and I am sure the Astros are thrilled by this.

Without the annoyance.

Hitmen77
12-08-2011, 09:40 AM
At least he's not going to Boston or New York or Cubs...or to another AL Central team

Texas vs Anaheim has become New York vs Boston. Seattle and Oakland have problems - and I am sure the Astros are thrilled by this.

Is Bud ever going to decide on the San Jose stadium plan for the A's?

gregoriop
12-08-2011, 09:43 AM
Count me in the "disappointed" category.

CubsfansareDRUNK
12-08-2011, 09:45 AM
Yeesh, that is just filthy money

MARTINMVP
12-08-2011, 09:47 AM
I hate it, but whatever. Kind of stupid to offer him 10 years at this point in his career.

Fenway
12-08-2011, 09:51 AM
At least he's not going to Boston or New York or Cubs...or to another AL Central team



Is Bud ever going to decide on the San Jose stadium plan for the A's?

It's been 998 days since MLB started reviewing the A's stadium situation.

TommyJohn
12-08-2011, 09:52 AM
Texas vs Anaheim has become New York vs Boston. Seattle and Oakland have problems - and I am sure the Astros are thrilled by this.
Except no Anaheim sportswriter ever invented a horse**** "curse" of Donnie Moore or Nolan Ryan or Bo Belisnky or whatever else he could pull out of his ass. And the Angel fanbase never wallowed in self-pity over 1982 and 1986 and let the world know that their pain was the absolute worst in the history of human emotion. Other than that, yeah, I see the similarities.

russ99
12-08-2011, 09:52 AM
Man, I love Arte Moreno as an owner.

He has a chance to push the Dodgers aside in that market and went for it.

I hope the Sox can get a guy like that someday...

As for the Astros, maybe the Angels will be a better draw with Pujols there. And they're at least 3 years from even thinking about contention, even if they stayed in the NL Central.

guillensdisciple
12-08-2011, 09:59 AM
Love love love how the angels work and it has always surprised me that they have not won more tireles. They seem to make big signings only when it matters and not spend big bucks every year ala Yankees and red sox. This move automatically vaults them to top tier team in the al. I expect good things and ye would do anything to one day have the white sox sign a stud like that. Some will say Adam Dunn but I am talking superstar like him and fielder etc.

palehozenychicty
12-08-2011, 10:00 AM
I'm sure the Astros love Pujols following them around. I still think he's 34 years old.

As for the Angels, they are the team of absurd contracts. Wells and now Pujols. Maybe we can flip them Rios this summer!

Fenway
12-08-2011, 10:02 AM
This morning this column was in the Post-Dispatch

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/bernie-what-else-can-pujols-want/article_31828a7c-af37-519e-9d6c-ac34299b95fc.html


In the end is the extra $3M a year worth it for Pujols? (most vanishes in taxes anyways) - but it does help the agent.

I guess the AL having the DH makes the difference.

Anaheim has been snake bit with going all out in the past.

But Anaheim's local TV contract will improve over this.

DeadMoney
12-08-2011, 10:06 AM
I'm sure the Astros love Pujols following them around. I still think he's 34 years old.

As for the Angels, they are the team of absurd contracts. Wells and now Pujols. Maybe we can flip them Rios this summer!

There's an interesting - and very logical - article trying to debunk that possibility here (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pujols-age-and-the-midwest-league/).

Good for the Angels. I can only dream that some day our White Sox act like a major market team.

Hitmen77
12-08-2011, 10:06 AM
It's been 998 days since MLB started reviewing the A's stadium situation.

Almost as long as the entire Kennedy Presidency. Wow.

palehozenychicty
12-08-2011, 10:09 AM
There's an interesting - and very logical - article trying to debunk that possibility here (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pujols-age-and-the-midwest-league/).

Good for the Angels. I can only dream that some day our White Sox act like a major market team.

Nice read. It does clarify some things.

soltrain21
12-08-2011, 10:11 AM
There's an interesting - and very logical - article trying to debunk that possibility here (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pujols-age-and-the-midwest-league/).

Good for the Angels. I can only dream that some day our White Sox act like a major market team.

Not if it means signing a 32 year old to a 10 year deal. No thanks.

PKalltheway
12-08-2011, 10:12 AM
It's been 998 days since MLB started reviewing the A's stadium situation.
Wow. It's been so long, I wouldn't fault you for putting reviewing in teal.

asindc
12-08-2011, 10:12 AM
....until he's 41. The last few years of that contract could be bad for the Angels.

But, I have to give them credit for seizing the opportunity to win over the L.A. market while the Dodgers are down. That's how you run a successful "2nd banana" team in a major market.

Man, I love Arte Moreno as an owner.

He has a chance to push the Dodgers aside in that market and went for it.

I hope the Sox can get a guy like that someday...

As for the Astros, maybe the Angels will be a better draw with Pujols there. And they're at least 3 years from even thinking about contention, even if they stayed in the NL Central.

Love love love how the angels work and it has always surprised me that they have not won more tireles. They seem to make big signings only when it matters and not spend big bucks every year ala Yankees and red sox. This move automatically vaults them to top tier team in the al. I expect good things and ye would do anything to one day have the white sox sign a stud like that. Some will say Adam Dunn but I am talking superstar like him and fielder etc.

If this kind of overpayment, one year removed from trading for the 2nd most untradeable contract in baseball (Zito would be #1), is what is necessary to be a successful 2nd banana, I'm glad JR declines to participate in such nonsense.

I hate it, but whatever. Kind of stupid to offer him 10 years at this point in his career.

Yes it is. LAAAAAA apparently hasn't learned it's lessons from the Gary Matthews Jr./Toriiiii Hunter fiasco or the ongoing Vernon Wells-its-so-obvious-why-would-you-do-it-again saga. I say let them carry on if that's the way they want to do things.

asindc
12-08-2011, 10:14 AM
There's an interesting - and very logical - article trying to debunk that possibility here (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pujols-age-and-the-midwest-league/).

Good for the Angels. I can only dream that some day our White Sox act like a major market team.

Not if it means signing a 32 year old to a 10 year deal. No thanks.

Glad at least one other person here recognizes how ridiculous this is. St. Louis management certainly does.

asindc
12-08-2011, 10:17 AM
This morning this column was in the Post-Dispatch

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/bernie-what-else-can-pujols-want/article_31828a7c-af37-519e-9d6c-ac34299b95fc.html


In the end is the extra $3M a year worth it for Pujols? (most vanishes in taxes anyways) - but it does help the agent.

I guess the AL having the DH makes the difference.

Anaheim has been snake bit with going all out in the past.

But Anaheim's local TV contract will improve over this.

Let's see... $30 million extra, which will net him probably another $12-15 million after taxes, agent's fees, and other expenses. Yeah, I think he benefits from that... possibly, just possibly more than his agent will.

tstrike2000
12-08-2011, 10:17 AM
Not if it means signing a 32 year old to a 10 year deal. No thanks.

Especially at 25-26 million a year in the backend of that contract to a guy who'd be roughly 40, 41, and 42 years old.

DirtySox
12-08-2011, 10:18 AM
Crazy.

delben91
12-08-2011, 10:19 AM
There's an interesting - and very logical - article trying to debunk that possibility here (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pujols-age-and-the-midwest-league/).

Good for the Angels. I can only dream that some day our White Sox act like a major market team.

I hesitate to even bring this up and derail the thread, but...

What is folks' definition of "acting like a major market team?"

Is it taking a risk on pricey veterans at the expense of "prospects"? Sounds like Jake Peavy to me...

Is it signing the big-name free agents with a history of solid play in an area of need such as a power bat at DH? Sounds like Adam Dunn to me...

Is it trying to pick pieces off the scrap heap, even at financial risk, to try and get a player that fills a major gap? Sounds like Alex Rios to me...

Now, all these have failed for various reasons, I don't deny that, but isn't taking those risks in that manner the concept of a major market mindset? I guess you could take it a step further and say that major market teams continue to spend to cover any and all mistakes, but other than Boston and New York I don't know if there's another team that operates that way consistently (we could make an argument for the Angels or Phillies I guess...)

Just saying. Argue with the execution, or the players chosen, but I think to argue that the Sox didn't have a major market mindset the last few years is disingenuous.

/rant

soltrain21
12-08-2011, 10:21 AM
What will he be viewed as in St. Louis as time passes? Doubt he will surpass Musial as "greatest of all time."

SephClone89
12-08-2011, 10:22 AM
What will he be viewed as in St. Louis as time passes? Doubt he will surpass Musial as "greatest of all time."

It'll take time to heal, but his number will undoubtedly be retired, and he'll be wearing a Cards cap on his plaque.

hi im skot
12-08-2011, 10:24 AM
I hesitate to even bring this up and derail the thread, but...

What is folks' definition of "acting like a major market team?"

Is it taking a risk on pricey veterans at the expense of "prospects"? Sounds like Jake Peavy to me...

Is it signing the big-name free agents with a history of solid play in an area of need such as a power bat at DH? Sounds like Adam Dunn to me...

Is it trying to pick pieces off the scrap heap, even at financial risk, to try and get a player that fills a major gap? Sounds like Alex Rios to me...

Now, all these have failed for various reasons, I don't deny that, but isn't taking those risks in that manner the concept of a major market mindset? I guess you could take it a step further and say that major market teams continue to spend to cover any and all mistakes, but other than Boston and New York I don't know if there's another team that operates that way consistently (we could make an argument for the Angels or Phillies I guess...)

Just saying. Argue with the execution, or the players chosen, but I think to argue that the Sox didn't have a major market mindset the last few years is disingenuous.

/rant


http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luvqmki07V1qd9885o1_400.gif

PKalltheway
12-08-2011, 10:27 AM
I hesitate to even bring this up and derail the thread, but...

What is folks' definition of "acting like a major market team?"

Is it taking a risk on pricey veterans at the expense of "prospects"? Sounds like Jake Peavy to me...

Is it signing the big-name free agents with a history of solid play in an area of need such as a power bat at DH? Sounds like Adam Dunn to me...

Is it trying to pick pieces off the scrap heap, even at financial risk, to try and get a player that fills a major gap? Sounds like Alex Rios to me...

Now, all these have failed for various reasons, I don't deny that, but isn't taking those risks in that manner the concept of a major market mindset? I guess you could take it a step further and say that major market teams continue to spend to cover any and all mistakes, but other than Boston and New York I don't know if there's another team that operates that way consistently (we could make an argument for the Angels or Phillies I guess...)

Just saying. Argue with the execution, or the players chosen, but I think to argue that the Sox didn't have a major market mindset the last few years is disingenuous.

/rant
Well put. Well put. :thumbsup:

SephClone89
12-08-2011, 10:29 AM
I hesitate to even bring this up and derail the thread, but...

What is folks' definition of "acting like a major market team?"

Is it taking a risk on pricey veterans at the expense of "prospects"? Sounds like Jake Peavy to me...

Is it signing the big-name free agents with a history of solid play in an area of need such as a power bat at DH? Sounds like Adam Dunn to me...

Is it trying to pick pieces off the scrap heap, even at financial risk, to try and get a player that fills a major gap? Sounds like Alex Rios to me...

Now, all these have failed for various reasons, I don't deny that, but isn't taking those risks in that manner the concept of a major market mindset? I guess you could take it a step further and say that major market teams continue to spend to cover any and all mistakes, but other than Boston and New York I don't know if there's another team that operates that way consistently (we could make an argument for the Angels or Phillies I guess...)

Just saying. Argue with the execution, or the players chosen, but I think to argue that the Sox didn't have a major market mindset the last few years is disingenuous.

/rant

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luvqmki07V1qd9885o1_400.gif

Well put. Well put. :thumbsup:

:gulp::gulp::gulp:

DirtySox
12-08-2011, 10:31 AM
Time to go read Viva El Birdos. Wonder how they are taking it.

asindc
12-08-2011, 10:34 AM
I hesitate to even bring this up and derail the thread, but...

What is folks' definition of "acting like a major market team?"

Is it taking a risk on pricey veterans at the expense of "prospects"? Sounds like Jake Peavy to me...

Is it signing the big-name free agents with a history of solid play in an area of need such as a power bat at DH? Sounds like Adam Dunn to me...

Is it trying to pick pieces off the scrap heap, even at financial risk, to try and get a player that fills a major gap? Sounds like Alex Rios to me...

Now, all these have failed for various reasons, I don't deny that, but isn't taking those risks in that manner the concept of a major market mindset? I guess you could take it a step further and say that major market teams continue to spend to cover any and all mistakes, but other than Boston and New York I don't know if there's another team that operates that way consistently (we could make an argument for the Angels or Phillies I guess...)

Just saying. Argue with the execution, or the players chosen, but I think to argue that the Sox didn't have a major market mindset the last few years is disingenuous.

/rant


Is it taking a risk on pricey veterans at the expense of "prospects"? Sounds like Jake Peavy to me...
Sounds like Vernon Wells to me.


Is it signing the big-name free agents with a history of solid play in an area of need such as a power bat at DH? Sounds like Adam Dunn to me...
Sounds like Carl Crawford to me.


Is it trying to pick pieces off the scrap heap, even at financial risk, to try and get a player that fills a major gap? Sounds like Alex Rios to me...
Sounds like J.D. Drew to me.


Now, all these have failed for various reasons, I don't deny that, but isn't taking those risks in that manner the concept of a major market mindset? I guess you could take it a step further and say that major market teams continue to spend to cover any and all mistakes, but other than Boston and New York I don't know if there's another team that operates that way consistently (we could make an argument for the Angels or Phillies I guess...)
Maybe we should ask Boston and LAAAAA fans how thrilled they are with those moves. Better yet, let's ask the GMs that made them.

SephClone89
12-08-2011, 10:39 AM
Sounds like Vernon Wells to me.

Sounds like Carl Crawford to me.

Sounds like J.D. Drew to me.

Maybe we should ask Boston and LAAAAA fans how thrilled they are with those moves. Better yet, let's ask the GMs that made them.

...So are you agreeing with Delben's point? I can't figure out what you're trying to say.

asindc
12-08-2011, 10:53 AM
...So are you agreeing with Delben's point? I can't figure out what you're trying to say.

Yes I am. Those moves are similar in makeup and results (so far) to moves KW has made, so the idea that the Sox have not been operating like a big market team is absurd.

spawn
12-08-2011, 11:09 AM
I hesitate to even bring this up and derail the thread, but...

What is folks' definition of "acting like a major market team?"

Is it taking a risk on pricey veterans at the expense of "prospects"? Sounds like Jake Peavy to me...

Is it signing the big-name free agents with a history of solid play in an area of need such as a power bat at DH? Sounds like Adam Dunn to me...

Is it trying to pick pieces off the scrap heap, even at financial risk, to try and get a player that fills a major gap? Sounds like Alex Rios to me...

Now, all these have failed for various reasons, I don't deny that, but isn't taking those risks in that manner the concept of a major market mindset? I guess you could take it a step further and say that major market teams continue to spend to cover any and all mistakes, but other than Boston and New York I don't know if there's another team that operates that way consistently (we could make an argument for the Angels or Phillies I guess...)

Just saying. Argue with the execution, or the players chosen, but I think to argue that the Sox didn't have a major market mindset the last few years is disingenuous.

/rant
:clap: :clap: :clap:

Noneck
12-08-2011, 11:11 AM
I guess the Angels monicker is lay in the weeds and then strike like a cobra. They did it to the Sox with crawford and now to cards with pujols.

asindc
12-08-2011, 11:12 AM
I guess the Angels monicker is lay in the weeds and then strike like a cobra. They did it to the Sox with crawford and now to cards with pujols.

I'm guessing you mean either 'Boston' or 'Hunter.'

spawn
12-08-2011, 11:13 AM
I guess the Angels monicker is lay in the weeds and then strike like a cobra. They did it to the Sox with crawford and now to cards with pujols.

Umm...when did Crawford sign with the Angels? Last I saw, he was with the Red Sox. I think you mean Torii Hunter.

Noneck
12-08-2011, 11:14 AM
I'm guessing you mean either 'Boston' or 'Hunter.'

Yea forsure

Noneck
12-08-2011, 11:16 AM
Umm...when did Crawford sign with the Angels? Last I saw, he was with the Red Sox. I think you mean Torii Hunter.


Thank you both for the correction. Hope the noodle is just on break not a long term vacation.

Lip Man 1
12-08-2011, 11:19 AM
Tommy John:

EXTREMELY well played sir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:cheers:

Asin:

Care to also count the number of times the Angels and Red Sox have been in the playoffs the past decade?

They appear to be doing some things right don't ya' think?

And with the expanded playoffs they are going to have pretty good shots to keep making playoff appearances in the future...probably a lot of them.

I agree with this point however, the last few years of his deal will probably benefit him more then he'll benefit his club.

Lip

russ99
12-08-2011, 11:25 AM
It's one thing to compare this deal to overpaying on players who didn't pan out, but we're talking about the best hitter in the majors here.

Guess that contract the Yankees gave A-Rod didn't pan out either...

soltrain21
12-08-2011, 11:27 AM
It's one thing to compare this deal to overpaying on players who didn't pan out, but we're talking about the best hitter in the majors here.

Guess that contract the Yankees gave A-Rod didn't pan out either...

That contract would have crippled any other team but the Yankees. It crippled the Rangers, that's for sure.

asindc
12-08-2011, 11:29 AM
Tommy John:

EXTREMELY well played sir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:cheers:

Asin:

Care to also count the number of times the Angels and Red Sox have been in the playoffs the past decade?

They appear to be doing some things right don't ya' think?

And with the expanded playoffs they are going to have pretty good shots to keep making playoff appearances in the future...probably a lot of them.

I agree with this point however, the last few years of his deal will probably benefit him more then he'll benefit his club.

Lip

My points are these:

1) JR has authorized KW to spend like a big market team since 2005.

2) Emulating other big market teams does not need to include making absurd deals like the Soriano, Matthews, Jr., Hunter, Wells, Pujols, Burnett, Drew, Crawford, and Lackey deals of recent years.

None of this means that I think neither Boston (who at one point was paying three different starting SSs at the same time, only one of whom was on its roster) nor LAAAAAA (who at one point was paying both Matthews, Jr. and Hunter starting CF money at the same time) don't know what they are doing.

doublem23
12-08-2011, 11:35 AM
That contract would have crippled any other team but the Yankees. It crippled the Rangers, that's for sure.

Don't you know JR and KW are cheapskates for not giving Ozzie a Yankees-sized payroll? He would have won then!

russ99
12-08-2011, 11:37 AM
My points are these:

1) JR has authorized KW to spend like a big market team since 2005.

2) Emulating other big market teams does not need to include making absurd deals like the Soriano, Matthews, Jr., Hunter, Wells, Pujols, Burnett, Drew, Crawford, and Lackey deals of recent years.

None of this means that I think neither Boston (who at one point was paying three different starting SSs at the same time, only one of whom was on its roster) nor LAAAAAA (who at one point was paying both Matthews, Jr. and Hunter starting CF money at the same time) don't know what they are doing.

1) No. JR sat on his wallet in the offseason from 2006 through 2010 (crying poor with the "50 cents" nonsense then blaming fans for low attendance) while we got a bunch of retreads and nobodys when we had glaring holes at CF, DH and SP for months, then Kenny had to make the super-risky moves for Peavy, Rios and Dunn when the plan failed.

2) The best players change teams in free agency. This organization (other than the Dunn signing) doesn't believe in being players in FA, rather prefers Kenny to play gambler, hoping he'll hit the jackpot at some point either in a trade or by signing castoffs. Big contracts go with the territory if you want those players.

Hitmen77
12-08-2011, 11:42 AM
Tommy John:

EXTREMELY well played sir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:cheers:

Asin:

Care to also count the number of times the Angels and Red Sox have been in the playoffs the past decade?

They appear to be doing some things right don't ya' think?

And with the expanded playoffs they are going to have pretty good shots to keep making playoff appearances in the future...probably a lot of them.

I agree with this point however, the last few years of his deal will probably benefit him more then he'll benefit his club.

Lip

That's how I feel about it. It's not as simple as a matter of the Sox never spending money. They obviously threw a ton of money at payroll last year. I'd say it's more a problem with the execution.

It's a complicated answer. It's not as simple as saying the Sox are cheap or that the Sox should have spent $250M over 10 years for Pujols.

The Angels have had their share of bloated contracts over the past few years. But, they're obviously not "rebuilding".

Lip Man 1
12-08-2011, 11:43 AM
I think there is a certain validity to both of Asin's and Russ's comments.

The Sox have spent big money compared to what they have done in the past, the past few years...they just haven't spent it as wisely. They aren't able to outspend their mistakes unfortunately.

The blame for not spending the money that JR has authorized falls on the G.M. who has made more mistakes the past few years then he did in the past.

Lip

spawn
12-08-2011, 11:46 AM
I think there is a certain validity to both of Asin's and Russ's comments.

The Sox have spent big money compared to what they have done in the past, the past few years...they just haven't spent it as wisely. They aren't able to outspend their mistakes unfortunately.

The blame for not spending the money that JR has authorized falls on the G.M. who has made more mistakes the past few years then he did in the past.

Lip

Please. The money has been spent. If you want to argue how wisely that money was spent, feel free. That's why this team is in the position it is. But to say they haven't spent the money at all is foolish.

KMcMahon817
12-08-2011, 12:01 PM
Soooo...what is their plan with Morales and Trumbo?

Noneck
12-08-2011, 12:02 PM
They aren't able to outspend their mistakes unfortunately.



Maybe so or maybe not. No knows how well this team has done over the past 25+ years. All we know is the club has skyrocketed in value during this time, they have a real sweet heart deal regarding rent for years to come and I have never heard of any of the managing partners running to hills trying to sell their shares in the club. Can this team afford to go in the crapper and lose ALL the momentum it has gained after winning a championship? Without all the facts I really dont think anyone can say that they are unable to outspend their mistakes at this point.

Jimmy Piersall
12-08-2011, 12:13 PM
Soooo...what is their plan with Morales and Trumbo?

Trade them to the Sox for Dunn and Rios.Just let me dream about it at least.

doublem23
12-08-2011, 12:15 PM
1) No. JR sat on his wallet in the offseason from 2006 through 2010 (crying poor with the "50 cents" nonsense then blaming fans for low attendance) while we got a bunch of retreads and nobodys when we had glaring holes at CF, DH and SP for months, then Kenny had to make the super-risky moves for Peavy, Rios and Dunn when the plan failed.

This post could not be any fuller of horse**** if you tried. First, the Sox have been a Top 10 payroll team for pretty much every season since the World Series win. And we have consistently been tops in the division as well. Sure, we'd all like JR to dig a little deeper sometimes, but ultimately, when you're owner is allowing your GM to play with a 9-figure payroll, any limitations are the fault of management. Right now I'd venture to say there's probably 20-25 teams who would swap owners with the White Sox, if allowed.

Second, even if you felt that the Peavy, Dunn, Rios moves were "super-risky" (which I call bull**** on most of you for at least 2 of those), THAT'S WHAT BIG-MARKET TEAMS DO... Plenty of people oohed and aahed when the Red Sox signed Carl Crawford and John Lackey. Or when the Phillies extended Ryan Howard. Or when the Cubs signed Alfonso Soriano. You think any of those fanbases want to re-do those contracts now?

You can't have it both ways and talk about how the Sox should be acting like a big market team and signing expensive veterans and then bitch when the team is loaded with expensive contracts.

thomas35forever
12-08-2011, 12:18 PM
The AL West just got a lot more interesting. Rangers-Angels will become a helluva rivalry.

palehozenychicty
12-08-2011, 12:24 PM
Trade them to the Sox for Dunn and Rios.Just let me dream about it at least.

Morales hasn't played in two years with that broken leg from the stomp of home plate. He'd be a throw-in at this point. I'll pick up Trumbo from his house if they would take Dunn or Rios. :tongue:

cws05champ
12-08-2011, 12:26 PM
With Albert gone the Cards match up very well in a trade with the Sox now. Move Berkman to 1B, and they could trade for Quentin put him in RF, they also have needs at SS....and while I don't want Alexei gone, if it brings us Shelby Miller, Carlos Matinez, so be it.

Paulwny
12-08-2011, 12:28 PM
Please. The money has been spent. If you want to argue how wisely that money was spent, feel free. That's why this team is in the position it is. But to say they haven't spent the money at all is foolish.


I'm not totally convinced.
Did the entire Sox organizational budget increase or was money taken from the minor league operation to off set the sox pay roll? ( Using Peter to pay Paul)
This maybe one of the reasons the sox farm system is in such bad shape.

sox1970
12-08-2011, 12:31 PM
With Albert gone the Cards match up very well in a trade with the Sox now. Move Berkman to 1B, and they could trade for Quentin put him in RF, they also have needs at SS....and while I don't want Alexei gone, if it brings us Shelby Miller, Carlos Matinez, so be it.

Interesting thought. That would be a good fit, although an outfield with Holliday and Quentin wouldn't exactly be stellar.

asindc
12-08-2011, 12:35 PM
I'm not totally convinced.
Did the entire Sox organizational budget increase or was money taken from the minor league operation to off set the sox pay roll? ( Using Peter to pay Paul)
This maybe one of the reasons the sox farm system is in such bad shape.

I think the two main reasons the farm system is terrible are 1) the Sox have steadfastly refused to pay over slot and 2) the Sox have virtually no presence in the DR.

That said, I'm not totally convinced that they have been spending close to break even, even in recent years. We'll probably never know, considering how pro sports teams guard access to their books as if they are sacred scrolls to be seen by only the highest of elders.

doublem23
12-08-2011, 12:38 PM
I'm not totally convinced.
Did the entire Sox organizational budget increase or was money taken from the minor league operation to off set the sox pay roll? ( Using Peter to pay Paul)
This maybe one of the reasons the sox farm system is in such bad shape.

No

thomas35forever
12-08-2011, 12:38 PM
Idiots.
8dxFc2xQOxg

Lip Man 1
12-08-2011, 12:41 PM
Spawn:

I'm not saying they haven't spent money, please read my post again.

They've spent more money than at any time in franchise history...JR gets all the credit in the world for changing his policy which he abided by for over 25 years...the GM just hasn't spent it wisely...he's been given plenty of resources to work with recently.

The Sox though haven't been able to spend over the mistakes that have been made. And I think there is a certain truth to Asin's claim that the money was limited at times over the past few years. The Sox had some major holes that never went repaired...most of the blame goes to the G.M. some goes to the fact that before the past two years or so there were still some real constraints being put on the GM which resulted in him falling back on the 'catch lightning' approach.

Lip

doublem23
12-08-2011, 12:47 PM
Spawn:

I'm not saying they haven't spent money, please read my post again.

They've spent more money than at any time in franchise history...JR gets all the credit in the world for changing his policy which he abided by for over 25 years...the GM just hasn't spent it wisely...he's been given plenty of resources to work with recently.

The Sox though haven't been able to spend over the mistakes that have been made.

Lip

Anyone who comes in and says "JR has sat on his wallet" automatically loses validity to their argument because its clear they're just there because they have some kind of dumb ass axe to grind, not because they're interested in actually addressing the problems that have plagued the Sox in the last few years. Even if I pretend to believe that there are people out there who weren't impressed with the Peavy deal and Dunn deal, the blame ultimately lies on the players for not performing, both moves were well regarded in the baseball community at the time.

TommyJohn
12-08-2011, 12:49 PM
Idiots.
8dxFc2xQOxg

People just need to get a grip!

downstairs
12-08-2011, 12:51 PM
What will he be viewed as in St. Louis as time passes? Doubt he will surpass Musial as "greatest of all time."

Over time, as long as he doesn't bash the orginization. And I assume he won't.

doublem23
12-08-2011, 12:53 PM
Idiots.
8dxFc2xQOxg

http://www.unitedpassports.com/images/welcomeToMissouri.jpg

thomas35forever
12-08-2011, 12:58 PM
http://www.unitedpassports.com/images/welcomeToMissouri.jpg
Except the car in the garage has an Illinois license plate. This probably took place downstate somewhere.

Danielgosox38
12-08-2011, 01:13 PM
As a White Sox fan first, but a Cardinals fan second, I am very disappointed today. Disappointed in both sides.

doublem23
12-08-2011, 01:17 PM
Except the car in the garage has an Illinois license plate. This probably took place downstate somewhere.

Once you get south of I-80 it all kind of blends in together

soxfanatlanta
12-08-2011, 01:22 PM
Idiots.
snip

Idiots, indeed.

russ99
12-08-2011, 01:25 PM
Anyone who comes in and says "JR has sat on his wallet" automatically loses validity to their argument because its clear they're just there because they have some kind of dumb ass axe to grind, not because they're interested in actually addressing the problems that have plagued the Sox in the last few years. Even if I pretend to believe that there are people out there who weren't impressed with the Peavy deal and Dunn deal, the blame ultimately lies on the players for not performing, both moves were well regarded in the baseball community at the time.

I never said JR sat on his wallet all the time. I said he sat on his wallet at key times when even a moderate-priced FA would have made a difference in the next season preventing KW from rolling the dice on a risky move at the trade deadline.

If not, then why did we get Griffey in 2008? Why did we get Rios, Manny Ramirez, Peavy, etc...

Surely, Kenny plays a large part as to why we didn't do more since 2005, but he can only work with the 50 cents Jerry gives him this time of year...

The other part about this that annoys me no end about this organization is that they treat player-personnel moves like a reward for the fans, if they fill the park enough.

TDog
12-08-2011, 01:32 PM
1) No. JR sat on his wallet in the offseason from 2006 through 2010 (crying poor with the "50 cents" nonsense then blaming fans for low attendance) while we got a bunch of retreads and nobodys when we had glaring holes at CF, DH and SP for months, then Kenny had to make the super-risky moves for Peavy, Rios and Dunn when the plan failed.

2) The best players change teams in free agency. This organization (other than the Dunn signing) doesn't believe in being players in FA, rather prefers Kenny to play gambler, hoping he'll hit the jackpot at some point either in a trade or by signing castoffs. Big contracts go with the territory if you want those players.

The whole "blaming the fans" concept is ridiculous. Fans who believe they are being blamed probably should be blamed. White Sox fans as a group are the best in baseball at making excuses not to support their team and then claiming they are being unjustly persecuted when it is pointed out they don't do a very good job of supporting their team. Whining that management is blaming the fans plays well among the group, but to the rest of the baseball world, it is a joke.

The "desperation" moves the White Sox made were generally applauded, sometimes demanded by the majority of fans. And it involved increasing payroll, not blaming fans for cutting payroll.

Baseball people who have nothing to do with White Sox management found that it reflected badly on White Sox fans that the team made a huge financial commitment to Adam Dunn and resigned their star player who filed for free agency (which is usually what the team does anymore, Mark Buehrle being the exception) AND the fans still took a wait-and-see approach to supporting the team.

If the Angels lose 90 games this year through a series of misfortunes, the Angels will still draw more than 3 million fans. And they haven't played their home games in Wrigley Field since the early 1960s. The team signed Puljos. The fans will come, regardless of whether they keep up with the Rangers in 2012.

I'm actually disappointed that the Angels signed Puljos because I wanted to see him stay with the Cardinals. I think free agents are better off staying where they are comfortable, where they fans already have a relationship with them and where they aren't expected to do more than they are capable. Puljos may blossom in Anaheim and the American League with little adjustment time. It sounds to me like a bad deal, especially for the long term. In the short term, the team will sell tickets even if they don't win.

Certainly it's a gamble, but not as big a gamble as it was for the White Sox to sign Dunn. The White Sox very well could have drawn more fans if they hadn't signed Dunn. And they wouldn't have had to deal with the dead weight of his contract.

white sox bill
12-08-2011, 01:44 PM
O Hell I woulda signed for 249 Mil

soxfanatlanta
12-08-2011, 02:07 PM
Puljos may blossom in Anaheim and the American League with little adjustment time.

Explain this, please.

soltrain21
12-08-2011, 02:09 PM
The whole "blaming the fans" concept is ridiculous. Fans who believe they are being blamed probably should be blamed. White Sox fans as a group are the best in baseball at making excuses not to support their team and then claiming they are being unjustly persecuted when it is pointed out they don't do a very good job of supporting their team. Whining that management is blaming the fans plays well among the group, but to the rest of the baseball world, it is a joke.


Oh, get off this crap already.

asindc
12-08-2011, 02:23 PM
Oh, get off this crap already.

It's not crap. I live within a four-hour drive of five different MLB parks, and I have never once heard any fan from another team proudly proclaim that they were not going to attend any of their team's games. Not going to games does not make one a bad fan in any sense, but I don't get the perverse pride in announcing such.

Hitmen77
12-08-2011, 02:23 PM
The whole "blaming the fans" concept is ridiculous. Fans who believe they are being blamed probably should be blamed. White Sox fans as a group are the best in baseball at making excuses not to support their team and then claiming they are being unjustly persecuted when it is pointed out they don't do a very good job of supporting their team. Whining that management is blaming the fans plays well among the group, but to the rest of the baseball world, it is a joke.

The "desperation" moves the White Sox made were generally applauded, sometimes demanded by the majority of fans. And it involved increasing payroll, not blaming fans for cutting payroll.

Baseball people who have nothing to do with White Sox management found that it reflected badly on White Sox fans that the team made a huge financial commitment to Adam Dunn and resigned their star player who filed for free agency (which is usually what the team does anymore, Mark Buehrle being the exception) AND the fans still took a wait-and-see approach to supporting the team.

If the Angels lose 90 games this year through a series of misfortunes, the Angels will still draw more than 3 million fans. And they haven't played their home games in Wrigley Field since the early 1960s. The team signed Puljos. The fans will come, regardless of whether they keep up with the Rangers in 2012.

I'm actually disappointed that the Angels signed Puljos because I wanted to see him stay with the Cardinals. I think free agents are better off staying where they are comfortable, where they fans already have a relationship with them and where they aren't expected to do more than they are capable. Puljos may blossom in Anaheim and the American League with little adjustment time. It sounds to me like a bad deal, especially for the long term. In the short term, the team will sell tickets even if they don't win.

Certainly it's a gamble, but not as big a gamble as it was for the White Sox to sign Dunn. The White Sox very well could have drawn more fans if they hadn't signed Dunn. And they wouldn't have had to deal with the dead weight of his contract.

I know you've said this before, but I strongly disagree with this.

IMO, anyone who expected to have 40,000 fans per game in April after we signed Dunn is just out of touch with reality. It's not because White Sox fans are "bad fans" as you like to think - it's just reality. ......when you have had soft support in previous years and don't have a robust season ticket base, you simply are not going to magically start drawing huge crowds from the get-go.

Fans were excited about the prospects of the upcoming 2011 season. But the reality is that, with supply and demand, fans had no need to rush and gobble up tickets in February for games in April. Unfortunately for the Sox, the lousy start (after the first week) sunk the team in the standings and killed any bump in ticket sales before they ever really got off the ground.

Your Angels comparison isn't very comparable. They spent years of consistent competitiveness to build themselves up to their current attendance levels. Of course, it's not going to plummet after one bad season. But, given them several years of poor play and you'll see the numbers of most teams drop.

...but never mind that rational explanation - it's just easier to say that Sox fans suck much more than fans of other teams.:rolleyes:

doublem23
12-08-2011, 02:25 PM
The whole "blaming the fans" concept is ridiculous. Fans who believe they are being blamed probably should be blamed. White Sox fans as a group are the best in baseball at making excuses not to support their team and then claiming they are being unjustly persecuted when it is pointed out they don't do a very good job of supporting their team. Whining that management is blaming the fans plays well among the group, but to the rest of the baseball world, it is a joke.

The "desperation" moves the White Sox made were generally applauded, sometimes demanded by the majority of fans. And it involved increasing payroll, not blaming fans for cutting payroll.

Baseball people who have nothing to do with White Sox management found that it reflected badly on White Sox fans that the team made a huge financial commitment to Adam Dunn and resigned their star player who filed for free agency (which is usually what the team does anymore, Mark Buehrle being the exception) AND the fans still took a wait-and-see approach to supporting the team.

If the Angels lose 90 games this year through a series of misfortunes, the Angels will still draw more than 3 million fans. And they haven't played their home games in Wrigley Field since the early 1960s. The team signed Puljos. The fans will come, regardless of whether they keep up with the Rangers in 2012.

I'm actually disappointed that the Angels signed Puljos because I wanted to see him stay with the Cardinals. I think free agents are better off staying where they are comfortable, where they fans already have a relationship with them and where they aren't expected to do more than they are capable. Puljos may blossom in Anaheim and the American League with little adjustment time. It sounds to me like a bad deal, especially for the long term. In the short term, the team will sell tickets even if they don't win.

Certainly it's a gamble, but not as big a gamble as it was for the White Sox to sign Dunn. The White Sox very well could have drawn more fans if they hadn't signed Dunn. And they wouldn't have had to deal with the dead weight of his contract.

I see you're taking the "if I post the same **** 100 times maybe people will start to think I'm correct" approach.

Pujols "blossoming" in the American League? Do you know who Albert Pujols is?

I also like the guy who lives two time zones over talking down to people like he's got his pulse on every one of them. Oooooh, there's 14,000 registered users at WSI, I can certainly speak like an authority now.

soltrain21
12-08-2011, 02:29 PM
It's not crap. I live within a four-hour drive of five different MLB parks, and I have never once heard any fan from another team proudly proclaim that they were not going to attend any of their team's games. Not going to games does not make one a bad fan in any sense, but I don't get the perverse pride in announcing such.

That's a few random people on this message board.

Hitmen77
12-08-2011, 02:33 PM
Anyone who comes in and says "JR has sat on his wallet" automatically loses validity to their argument because its clear they're just there because they have some kind of dumb ass axe to grind, not because they're interested in actually addressing the problems that have plagued the Sox in the last few years. Even if I pretend to believe that there are people out there who weren't impressed with the Peavy deal and Dunn deal, the blame ultimately lies on the players for not performing, both moves were well regarded in the baseball community at the time.

I think this is the key right here. I can't speak for others, but when people say they wish the Sox were run more like the Angels (or fill in the blank of for some other team), I don't read that as just being about ownership throwing money at players like Dunn, Peavy, and Rios.

It's a complaint about how the organization is operated a whole. Part of it is years and years of nothing much coming out of the farm system without any real shake up in management. Part of it is 3 years in a row with a pattern of underachieving (stumbling into a huge hole in April/May, making a come back in June, and then falling out of the race in August) without any changes in management (including coaches).

IMO, the Sox had a decent chance of kicking the Cubs while they were sputtering the last few years just like the Angels are doing to the Dodgers. But, it looks like the window for that opportunity is likely closed.

asindc
12-08-2011, 02:48 PM
I think this is the key right here. I can't speak for others, but when people say they wish the Sox were run more like the Angels (or fill in the blank of for some other team), I don't read that as just being about ownership throwing money at players like Dunn, Peavy, and Rios.

It's a complaint about how the organization is operated a whole. Part of it is years and years of nothing much coming out of the farm system without any real shake up in management. Part of it is 3 years in a row with a pattern of underachieving (stumbling into a huge hole in April/May, making a come back in June, and then falling out of the race in August) without any changes in management (including coaches).

IMO, the Sox had a decent chance of kicking the Cubs while they were sputtering the last few years just like the Angels are doing to the Dodgers. But, it looks like the window for that opportunity is likely closed.

To the extent that I agree with you, I definitely agree with the bolded part. I get the sense (could be wrong, of course) that JR has failed to recognize the opportunity to get the upper hand on his crosstown rivals and how much easier that would make his job and how much more valuable the franchise would be. Any chance to gain a higher profile that can be converted into tangible gains should be fully explored, IMO.

PatK
12-08-2011, 03:44 PM
I'm glad to see that Theo's opinion of what Pujols' signing with the Angels means to the Cubs is posted in the "Top Breaking Stories" section of the Tribune's website.

Lip Man 1
12-08-2011, 03:54 PM
For better or worse, depending on your point of view, the Sox have always felt they are NOT in direct compitition with the Cubs.

The day the new group took over Einhorn said and repeated during the early years that the Sox are "Chicago's American League team..."

Lip

TaylorStSox
12-08-2011, 04:30 PM
To the extent that I agree with you, I definitely agree with the bolded part. I get the sense (could be wrong, of course) that JR has failed to recognize the opportunity to get the upper hand on his crosstown rivals and how much easier that would make his job and how much more valuable the franchise would be. Any chance to gain a higher profile that can be converted into tangible gains should be fully explored, IMO.

The Chicago situation and the LA situation are vastly different. Our fanbases are different. The culture ie different. The stadium location is different. If it came down to having a better team and nicer park, we would have surpassed the Cubs years ago.

I have a hard time blaming management. They've spent the money. I agreed with every big move at the time it was made. It just hasn't panned out. Its an unfortunate reality. The franchise has to endure the lows and adapt.

SI1020
12-08-2011, 04:33 PM
I hesitate to even bring this up and derail the thread, but...

What is folks' definition of "acting like a major market team?"

Is it taking a risk on pricey veterans at the expense of "prospects"? Sounds like Jake Peavy to me...

Is it signing the big-name free agents with a history of solid play in an area of need such as a power bat at DH? Sounds like Adam Dunn to me...

Is it trying to pick pieces off the scrap heap, even at financial risk, to try and get a player that fills a major gap? Sounds like Alex Rios to me...

Now, all these have failed for various reasons, I don't deny that, but isn't taking those risks in that manner the concept of a major market mindset? I guess you could take it a step further and say that major market teams continue to spend to cover any and all mistakes, but other than Boston and New York I don't know if there's another team that operates that way consistently (we could make an argument for the Angels or Phillies I guess...)

Just saying. Argue with the execution, or the players chosen, but I think to argue that the Sox didn't have a major market mindset the last few years is disingenuous.

/rant You make some really good points. However teams like the Yankees, Red Sox and Angels can make similar mistakes but it doesn't stop from from continuing to reach into their deep pockets and take even more chances. It looks like for the Sox the opposite is happening. They got burned and now no more big signings in the foreseeable future.

TDog
12-08-2011, 05:05 PM
Oh, get off this crap already.

It's the "blaming the fans" stuff that's the crap.

And people are still shoveling it.

Soxman219
12-08-2011, 06:12 PM
I hesitate to even bring this up and derail the thread, but...

What is folks' definition of "acting like a major market team?"

Is it taking a risk on pricey veterans at the expense of "prospects"? Sounds like Jake Peavy to me...

Is it signing the big-name free agents with a history of solid play in an area of need such as a power bat at DH? Sounds like Adam Dunn to me...

Is it trying to pick pieces off the scrap heap, even at financial risk, to try and get a player that fills a major gap? Sounds like Alex Rios to me...

Now, all these have failed for various reasons, I don't deny that, but isn't taking those risks in that manner the concept of a major market mindset? I guess you could take it a step further and say that major market teams continue to spend to cover any and all mistakes, but other than Boston and New York I don't know if there's another team that operates that way consistently (we could make an argument for the Angels or Phillies I guess...)

Just saying. Argue with the execution, or the players chosen, but I think to argue that the Sox didn't have a major market mindset the last few years is disingenuous.

/rant

:clap::clap::clap:

Lip Man 1
12-08-2011, 06:34 PM
SI:

You can add the Rangers to that list of A.L. teams with deep pockets.

Lip

Viva Medias B's
12-08-2011, 10:02 PM
I admit that I am disappointed that Pujols is leaving St. Louis. I thought he would be a Cardinal for life. Both sides are probably at fault for this.

Imagine if Pujols entered free agency at the end of '10 instead of '11. Think KW would have gone after him instead of Dunn (and not signed Konerko in the process)?

TommyJohn
12-08-2011, 10:08 PM
I admit that I am disappointed that Pujols is leaving St. Louis. I thought he would be a Cardinal for life. Both sides are probably at fault for this.

Imagine if Pujols entered free agency at the end of '10 instead of '11. Think KW would have gone after him instead of Dunn (and not signed Konerko in the process)?

No.

Viva Medias B's
12-08-2011, 10:28 PM
Several Cardinal greats, including Stan the Man, react to Pujols' departure.

Link (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/stan-musial-on-pujols-sorry-to-see-him-go/article_22848984-21c4-11e1-8b7c-0019bb30f31a.html)

Meanwhile, KMOX-AM (1120) (http://player.radio.com/player/RadioPlayer.php?version=1.2.13391&station=87) just played a promo commercial about the Pujols signing with the song "For the Love of Money" playing in the background with clips of Pujols' past sayings about this like "I could never imagine playing somewhere else" and "It's never been about the money." This was along KMOX host Charlie Brennan breaking the news on KMOX of the Anaheim signing. Gee, I wonder which side the Cardinals flagship took here.

Knowing Cardinal Nation, I bet there are some Cardinal fans reacting to this the same way Baltimore Colts fans acted the night the Mayflower trucks showed up in Owings Mills.

TaylorStSox
12-08-2011, 10:49 PM
Same deal Arod signed with Texas? I know there's a huge age difference.

DSpivack
12-08-2011, 11:59 PM
Same deal Arod signed with Texas? I know there's a huge age difference.

Just about, although his extension with the Yankees is a bit larger.

Sox
12-09-2011, 12:54 PM
As good as Pujols is he's not 250 million worthy over 10 years....

ComiskeyBrewer
12-09-2011, 02:13 PM
Several Cardinal greats, including Stan the Man, react to Pujols' departure.

Link (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/stan-musial-on-pujols-sorry-to-see-him-go/article_22848984-21c4-11e1-8b7c-0019bb30f31a.html)

Meanwhile, KMOX-AM (1120) (http://player.radio.com/player/RadioPlayer.php?version=1.2.13391&station=87) just played a promo commercial about the Pujols signing with the song "For the Love of Money" playing in the background with clips of Pujols' past sayings about this like "I could never imagine playing somewhere else" and "It's never been about the money." This was along KMOX host Charlie Brennan breaking the news on KMOX of the Anaheim signing. Gee, I wonder which side the Cardinals flagship took here.

Knowing Cardinal Nation, I bet there are some Cardinal fans reacting to this the same way Baltimore Colts fans acted the night the Mayflower trucks showed up in Owings Mills.

I know Cardinals fans want to play it off as just a money grab, but if it was, he would have signed with Florida. I think he left because he just didn't want to play for STL anymore.

ilsox7
12-09-2011, 02:21 PM
I know Cardinals fans want to play it off as just a money grab, but if it was, he would have signed with Florida. I think he left because he just didn't want to play for STL anymore.

The stuff I've read said that Pujols simply wanted no part of the Marlins organization. So not a complete money grab.

TommyJohn
12-09-2011, 02:43 PM
Several Cardinal greats, including Stan the Man, react to Pujols' departure.

Link (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/stan-musial-on-pujols-sorry-to-see-him-go/article_22848984-21c4-11e1-8b7c-0019bb30f31a.html)

Meanwhile, KMOX-AM (1120) (http://player.radio.com/player/RadioPlayer.php?version=1.2.13391&station=87) just played a promo commercial about the Pujols signing with the song "For the Love of Money" playing in the background with clips of Pujols' past sayings about this like "I could never imagine playing somewhere else" and "It's never been about the money." This was along KMOX host Charlie Brennan breaking the news on KMOX of the Anaheim signing. Gee, I wonder which side the Cardinals flagship took here.

Knowing Cardinal Nation, I bet there are some Cardinal fans reacting to this the same way Baltimore Colts fans acted the night the Mayflower trucks showed up in Owings Mills.


My heart bleeds for all those poor Cardinal fans. Not.

Lip Man 1
12-09-2011, 04:53 PM
Looks like Kaplan will have to "retire" his Pujols Cub jersey.

LOL

:D:

Lip

guillensdisciple
12-09-2011, 05:35 PM
Looks like Kaplan will have to "retire" his Pujols Cub jersey.

LOL

:D:

Lip

Lol

Completely forgot about him, what an idiot.