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gobears1987
12-08-2011, 02:21 AM
When Buehrle hangs up his cleats sometime after the next four years, will #56 be retired? I would have to answer with a 100% yes. What does the rest of WSI say?

For this poll, churros is not an option.

soxfanatlanta
12-08-2011, 06:26 AM
It doesn't matter to me; he will always be one of my favorite players.

Parrothead
12-08-2011, 06:26 AM
not a chance, i would think. basically he had 2 years that were way over .500. yes he had big moments but he is not dominate.

DumpJerry
12-08-2011, 06:28 AM
Let's wait until he retires so we don't have a Harold Baines situation on our hands.

rdwj
12-08-2011, 07:42 AM
Yes, the perfect game and no hitter will get his number retired and a statue

kevingrt
12-08-2011, 07:44 AM
Will it? Yes. Based on the perfect game, no hitter, save in a WS, and countless other great moments.

Should it? I really don't know.

But you know what is for sure coming... A STATUE

gobears1987
12-08-2011, 07:57 AM
Will it? Yes. Based on the perfect game, no hitter, save in a WS, and countless other great moments.

Should it? I really don't know.

But you know what is for sure coming... A STATUE

Don't forget the gold gloves he won here.

As for the statue, it is hard to pick a moment for it. It probably would be his reaction to the final out of the perfect game.

Hitmen77
12-08-2011, 08:07 AM
Yes, but not until after he retires.

doublem23
12-08-2011, 08:27 AM
I don't think there's any question that both Mark and Paul's numbers will be retired when they hang 'em up.

sox1970
12-08-2011, 08:33 AM
I don't think there's any question that both Mark and Paul's numbers will be retired when they hang 'em up.

This.

If he retires in four years, the number gets retired the summer of '16.

Procol Harum
12-08-2011, 08:43 AM
A good career, and a great guy but number-retiring worthy? I don't think so. Konerko? Another year or two at his level of the last 5-6 years, definitely.

bigsoxfan420
12-08-2011, 08:46 AM
Will it? Yes. Based on the perfect game, no hitter, save in a WS, and countless other great moments.

Should it? I really don't know.

But you know what is for sure coming... A STATUE

I think you meant ...A STATUE :tongue:

DonnieDarko
12-08-2011, 08:52 AM
I can't see why his number wouldn't get retired and a statue wouldn't be put up in his honor. I look forward to seeing his face on the outfield wall.

TommyJohn
12-08-2011, 09:55 AM
No. Absolutely not. Retire Wilbur Wood's number first. And he isn't worthy of it, so neither is Buehrle. Reisndorf retiring Baines' number ****ed up the entire concept, if you ask me.

shingo10
12-08-2011, 10:35 AM
If what Buehrle did for and meant to this organization isn't enough to get his number retired then nothing is.

There shouldn't even have to be a discussion about it in my opinion. When is the next time the Sox will have a pitcher who meant more to the team and who accomplished so much here with the Sox? I'm guessing it's going to be a very long time.

He deserves to be honored in every way possible. And it should happen in 2016.

ode to veeck
12-08-2011, 11:06 AM
he's got to retire 1st... I think he's one no no from a HOF 1st ballot..all the luck to him in the NL..sorry to see him go, definitely losing one of our longtime clubhouse leaders

DumpJerry
12-08-2011, 11:13 AM
As for the statue, it is hard to pick a moment for it. It probably would be his reaction to the final out of the perfect game.
It's a no brainer
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/644/434/53263544_display_image.jpg?1323264864

tick53
12-08-2011, 11:38 AM
Let's wait a while. They retired and reactivated Harold Baines number 3 so many times that they could have installed a blackboard on the outfield wall.

LITTLE NELL
12-08-2011, 12:16 PM
I know they did not have numbers in their day but Red Faber and Ed Walsh should be up on the wall before Buerhle.
Right now I'm having a hard time with MB not staying with the Sox. I have no idea if we were willing to match the Marlins offer and Mark always said that money was not a big issue with him, so he should have given the Sox a hometown discount.. After all how much money does a player need so his family lives comfortably for the rest of their lives. Bottom line is that MB's number does not go up on the wall, maybe I will change my mind as time passes.

TomBradley72
12-08-2011, 12:38 PM
Yes- once he's retired.

He's #6 on the all time wins ranking- as another poster mentioned- Walsh and Faber should be honored in some fashion- but MB's win total along with No Hitter,Perfect Game, World Series, Gold Gloves- has him worthy of the honor.

Too bad he didn't stay- probably would have ended up with 200+ wins, and #3 overall.

thomas35forever
12-08-2011, 12:49 PM
Mark has meant the world to the organization and not just through his accomplishments. I know what he does off the field has no bearing on whether or not his number gets retired, but his classiness has left a lot of good taste with everyone in the organization and its fans. Regardless, no question we'll be seeing #56 on the outfield wall (or wherever the retired numbers are located when the day comes) in the distant future.

Procol Harum
12-08-2011, 01:08 PM
No. Absolutely not. Retire Wilbur Wood's number first. And he isn't worthy of it, so neither is Buehrle.

And ditto the same sentiments re: Walsh and Faber.

thomas35forever
12-08-2011, 01:14 PM
And ditto the same sentiments re: Walsh and Faber.
I hope you're implying that Walsh never had a # and Faber didn't get one until the end of his career and he'd seen better days.

Moses_Scurry
12-08-2011, 01:20 PM
I've never compared the Sox with other MLB teams, but for a team that has been around as long as they have, they really don't have very many retired numbers. I don't think there are any former Sox (other than Buehrle now) that deserve a retired number, and there are no current Sox other than Konerko that deserve it. They will do it for both in my opinion in order to beef up the total.

As much as I loved Baines as a player, he really didn't deserve it and probably only got the honor because the Sox have such a lack of hall of famers considering the lengthy team history. If Baines got it, Buehrle and Konerko easily deserve it in my opinion.

LITTLE NELL
12-08-2011, 01:22 PM
I hope you're implying that Walsh never had a # and Faber didn't get one until the end of his career and he'd seen better days.

There are quite a few players in MLB that are honored on various walls with their names and the teams logo where the number would be.
Both Walsh and Faber are in the Hall of Fame and their names should be on the wall. Faber spent his whole career with the Sox and Walsh 13 out of 14 years with the Sox. If you make the HOF why would your picture and name not be on the wall? I doubt that Buerhle will ever make the HOF.

Dan H
12-08-2011, 01:29 PM
I loved Buerhle but I don't want his number retired. And I think the retiring of numbers and statues has been over done. He can be remembered without thei over the board stuff.

DSpivack
12-08-2011, 03:15 PM
Here's the list of players in baseball history who had multiple no-hitters with one team, including a perfect game, and won a world series with that team:

Cy Young
Sandy Koufax
Mark Buehrle.

56 should be retired as soon he does.

shingo10
12-08-2011, 03:25 PM
Here's the list of players in baseball history who had multiple no-hitters with one team, including a perfect game, and won a world series with that team:

Cy Young
Sandy Koufax
Mark Buehrle.

56 should be retired as soon he does.


^ Enough said.

BleacherBandit
12-08-2011, 07:20 PM
He's spent 10 years with the Sox, but I don't think that's enough.

If we rewarded every decent player that played for that period of time with the Sox there should be many more retired numbers. To be clear, I'm not ignoring Mark's personal accomplishments or importance to the club while he was here, but I'd ideally like to see more full-service Sox players be rewarded and remembered with a retired number.

I think retired numbers should commemorate players whose entire career is almost synonymous with one club. Ideally, that is the case. There are some exceptions around the league. For example Reggie Jackson's number 44 has been retired by both the Athletics and Yankees....


To stave off the responses consisting of the argument "Mark Buehrle will only be synonymous with the White Sox after he retires!", please wait until his four years with the Marlins are spent. You should be able to argue with my method of selecting players to honor, though.

DSpivack
12-08-2011, 07:44 PM
He's spent 10 years with the Sox, but I don't think that's enough.

If we rewarded every decent player that played for that period of time with the Sox there should be many more retired numbers. To be clear, I'm not ignoring Mark's personal accomplishments or importance to the club while he was here, but I'd ideally like to see more full-service Sox players be rewarded and remembered with a retired number.

I think retired numbers should commemorate players whose entire career is almost synonymous with one club. Ideally, that is the case. There are some exceptions around the league. For example Reggie Jackson's number 44 has been retired by both the Athletics and Yankees....

To stave off the responses consisting of the argument "Mark Buehrle will only be synonymous with the White Sox after he retires!", please wait until his four years with the Marlins are spent. You should be able to argue with my method of selecting players to honor, though.

I see very few players with the impact on the franchise that Mark Buehrle has had. He was the opening day starter for what, 10 or 11 seasons? Threw 2 no-hitters including a perfect game? Helped win a World Series?

The only Sox players of the last 50 years that in mind are worthy enough to retire are Thomas, Buehrle, and maybe Fisk or Baines, though I'd probably lean against the latter two. I think the criteria should be high enough that there are no more than a one or two players each couple of decades. Given that, I don't see why Buehrle shouldn't be including there.

TommyJohn
12-08-2011, 08:19 PM
Here's the list of players in baseball history who had multiple no-hitters with one team, including a perfect game, and won a world series with that team:

Cy Young
Sandy Koufax
Mark Buehrle.

56 should be retired as soon he does.

That is your argument for retiring his number? Come on.

TDog
12-08-2011, 08:25 PM
I don't think there's any question that both Mark and Paul's numbers will be retired when they hang 'em up.

A couple of years ago, I wouldn't have thought Konerko was on his way to having his number retired, but in the last few years, he has worked hard to become a much better hitter than some believed he could ever be a decade ago. He has a chance to become Hall of Fame worthy. After resigning with the Sox in the last big free-agent contract of his career, I believe he is on his way to getting his number retired.

I don't believe Buehrle's situation is as clear cut. If he makes the Hall of Fame, which would require some great years with the Marlins, I think he would get his White Sox number retired without question. But there is a difference between trading a player (Harold Baines, Billy Pierce, Luis Aparicio, Nellie Fox) or letting a player go at the end (Frank Thomas, or, in the Yankees case, Babe Ruth) and having a player leave the team because he demands more money than the team can pay him.

I don't think you'll see anyone else wearing 56 for the White Sox, if not out of respect for Buehrle's memory, at least out of concern for the fans' sensitivities and the pressure it would put on the player wearing it.

The time to have the discussion is when Buehrle's career is over.

TDog
12-08-2011, 08:29 PM
Here's the list of players in baseball history who had multiple no-hitters with one team, including a perfect game, and won a world series with that team:

Cy Young
Sandy Koufax
Mark Buehrle.

56 should be retired as soon he does.

Of course, Cy Young's number is not retired.

DSpivack
12-08-2011, 09:00 PM
That is your argument for retiring his number? Come on.

Not that that anecdote alone is worthy, but I think it shows just how unique of a player he is and what he has accomplished with the White Sox.

Of course, Cy Young's number is not retired.

Well, obviously.

chisoxfanatic
12-08-2011, 09:36 PM
undoubtedly

gobears1987
12-09-2011, 05:16 AM
Of course, Cy Young's number is not retired.

It has been retired league wide.

pythons007
12-09-2011, 08:10 AM
I know they did not have numbers in their day but Red Faber and Ed Walsh should be up on the wall before Buerhle.
Right now I'm having a hard time with MB not staying with the Sox. I have no idea if we were willing to match the Marlins offer and Mark always said that money was not a big issue with him, so he should have given the Sox a hometown discount.. After all how much money does a player need so his family lives comfortably for the rest of their lives. Bottom line is that MB's number does not go up on the wall, maybe I will change my mind as time passes.

Ask these guys
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kufram
12-09-2011, 10:01 AM
I don't think player's numbers should be retired while they are still quite young men unless they dominated baseball at their position like Frank Thomas did.

In time, yes, MB has meant enough to this team to warrant the retired number kind of accolade.... but a few years should pass.

In his career MB was as solid as they come, which has it's own importance in a pitcher, but I wouldn't describe him as dominating. Now, his special achievements, which number a fair few, deserve the honour of his face on the wall.

That's just me.

PennStater98r
12-09-2011, 10:51 AM
I love MB - but honestly, I think that retiring MB's number without seeing what he does for the rest of his career does a disservice to everyone on that wall today - it's kinda like putting Santo in the HoF...

My problem isn't so much what MB did for the White Sox - it's that everyone that's on the wall has both great careers (though not necessarily HoF), and a great career while wearing a White Sox univdor.

sox1970
12-09-2011, 10:58 AM
Buehrle accomplished more in a Sox uniform than Billy Pierce, considering the era they played in. Pierce is on the wall.

The end.

LITTLE NELL
12-09-2011, 11:18 AM
Buehrle accomplished more in a Sox uniform than Billy Pierce, considering the era they played in. Pierce is on the wall.

The end.

Why, because he had 2 no-hitters?

For his 13 years with the Sox Pierce was probably the first or second best pitcher in the A.L. Yankee fans will say Whitey Ford but Pierce was 8-6 in matchups with Ford. Pierce had to face the mighty Yankees and Ford faced the Go-Go Sox who could never match up with Yankee hitting. He won 186 games with the Sox and would have won more but Sox managers would always give him a day off against a weaker team so he could face the Yankees.

Here is Pierce's record, tell me he didn't accomplish more than Buerhle.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/piercbi02.shtml

sox1970
12-09-2011, 12:02 PM
Why, because he had 2 no-hitters?

For his 13 years with the Sox Pierce was probably the first or second best pitcher in the A.L. Yankee fans will say Whitey Ford but Pierce was 8-6 in matchups with Ford. Pierce had to face the mighty Yankees and Ford faced the Go-Go Sox who could never match up with Yankee hitting. He won 186 games with the Sox and would have won more but Sox managers would always give him a day off against a weaker team so he could face the Yankees.

Here is Pierce's record, tell me he didn't accomplish more than Buerhle.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/piercbi02.shtml

OK, instead of getting in a Pierce vs Buehrle match, let's just say it's very close, and Buehrle was on a championship White Sox team.

Obviously, Buehrle will have his number retired when his career is over, and I'm sure no other player will wear 56 again, even while he's with the Marlins.

doublem23
12-09-2011, 12:07 PM
That is your argument for retiring his number? Come on.

It's better than my argument which is he's Mark ****ing Buehrle.

And I still think my argument is a winner

voodoochile
12-09-2011, 12:07 PM
Perfect game, no hitter, the 2005 playoffs, 11+ years of consistency while being a perfect teammate and a fan favorite? Absolutely...

not a chance, i would think. basically he had 2 years that were way over .500. yes he had big moments but he is not dominate.

Put it in a team perspective. Doe Mark Buehrle make the Sox team HOF? In a heartbeat.

It's a no brainer
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/644/434/53263544_display_image.jpg?1323264864

You sure about that?

http://archive.chicagobreakingsports.com/markbuehrle-openingday.jpg

That is your argument for retiring his number? Come on.

I think the point is that when a guy does all that for a single team strong consideration has to be given to retiring his number. Add in his gold glove, his poty, his WS save, the fact he was beloved by fans and teammates and a team leader to boot.

Oh and I haven't made this point, but I agree... WHEN he retires, please JR. No more Haaaarold stuff.

Honestly, if Haaarold has his number retired Mark should for sure and Haaarold is one of my two favorite players ever to wear the uniform.

Noneck
12-09-2011, 12:15 PM
56 is a crappy number so why not retire it. But on a serious note, yes it deserves to be retired considering the numbers that have been retired. My personal opinion is only HOF players numbers should be retired.

ilsox7
12-09-2011, 12:17 PM
he's got to retire 1st... I think he's one no no from a HOF 1st ballot..all the luck to him in the NL..sorry to see him go, definitely losing one of our longtime clubhouse leaders

He's nowhere near the HOF, let alone first ballot. His only chance is to pitch long enough to win 300 games.

Sox
12-09-2011, 12:52 PM
Yes..so should Wilbur Woods number, Richie Allens number and definitely PK's number.....

SephClone89
12-09-2011, 12:57 PM
Yes..so should Wilbur Woods number, Richie Allens number and definitely PK's number.....

Uh, no.

Sox
12-09-2011, 12:59 PM
Uh, no.

Well I guess 2 out of 3 aint bad, right?

LITTLE NELL
12-09-2011, 12:59 PM
Yes..so should Wilbur Woods number, Richie Allens number and definitely PK's number.....

Yes to PK, no to Wilbur and Richie call me Dick.

Noneck
12-09-2011, 01:05 PM
Uh, no.

Actually the # Allen wore will be retired. Well not really but someone who also wore that number had his other # retired.

gobears1987
12-09-2011, 01:10 PM
Yes..so should Wilbur Woods number, Richie Allens number and definitely PK's number.....

Three years with the Sox is not enough for Richie Allen.

As for Wilbur Wood, yes he won two more games than Buehrle, but he lost dozens more. He pitched 0 post-season games with the Sox, didn't win any Gold Gloves, and never threw a no-hitter.

SephClone89
12-09-2011, 01:14 PM
Actually the # Allen wore will be retired. Well not really but someone who also wore that number had his other # retired.

That's true, but it also doesn't really have much to do with what we're talking about.

soxfanreggie
12-09-2011, 02:21 PM
he's got to retire 1st... I think he's one no no from a HOF 1st ballot..all the luck to him in the NL..sorry to see him go, definitely losing one of our longtime clubhouse leaders

I don't think he'll be first ballot HOF unless he throws a Cy Young award in there. It will be interesting to see what happens his next four years and beyond. He could put up 60 more wins and throw some more great games, maybe win a few more Gold Gloves too or another AS appearance or two.

I do think his number gets retired or at least that he gets a statue here. Konerko will probably have both as well, especially if he finishes out his contract here.

Going to what Nell said, I don't think we were anywhere close in offering him a contract. You can think a player would take a discount of a few million a year, but I think we were about 1 or 2 years off at about $4-5 million a year to compete with the Marlins. The only way I saw us keeping MB is if we traded Danks and perhaps even Floyd away. I still think we see Danks and maybe Quentin out the door for prospects.

If we are going to re-build and don't have much chance to keep these guys, as much as it would hurt for this next year, it's better to get good prospects.

A. Cavatica
12-09-2011, 08:28 PM
According to Baseball Reference's list of the 10 most similar pitchers to MB through age 32, #2 and #3 are Hall of Famers.

The catch?

#2 is Herb Pennock.
#3 is Dennis Eckersley. (***?!?!?)

MB is not going to the HoF, not at his current established win level.

He's sixth on the Sox leader board in wins, though, and his intangibles WILL ensure they retire his number.

He's also a future pitching coach.

The Dude
12-10-2011, 03:00 PM
Only 2 players from that world series team will be on the wall. (not counting Thomas)
#56 and #14

FarmerAndy
12-15-2011, 02:06 PM
If the Cubs retired Mark Grace's number, everybody here would make fun of it. But that's essentially what we are talking about here. We're talking about a good player who has been a staple here, a fan favorite for the past decade.

Buehrle has been a favorite of mine. Seems like a genuine person. I love the way he offsets some of what he lacks in "stuff" with great defense, controling the running game, and not giving up much in the way of free passes. I love watching him work. But he has never even been a top 5 pitcher in the league at any given period of his career. Set aside any personal feelings you have about Buehrle and ask yourself - Do you want the White Sox to immortalize players who were never even among the best players in baseball at their position at any given time???

Harold Baines was one of my favorite players when I was growing up. Yet I still can't figure out why his number is retired.

Retired numbers should be reserved for Hall of Famers who spent a good chunk of their career on the team. When you start putting people on the wall just because they were staples of the organization for a period and fans really loved them........ it just looks kinda sad. It's like you're retiring numbers just to make it look like you have a richer history than you actually do.

doublem23
12-15-2011, 02:57 PM
Retired numbers should be reserved for Hall of Famers who spent a good chunk of their career on the team. When you start putting people on the wall just because they were staples of the organization for a period and fans really loved them........ it just looks kinda sad. It's like you're retiring numbers just to make it look like you have a richer history than you actually do.

No, the Hall of Fame is reserved for Hall of Famers, retired numbers are reserved for special players in a franchise's history that have been memorable to its existance. The Yankees, the ****in Yankees, have retired 6 numbers of guys who are not in the Hall of Fame, and I don't think anyone can accuse them of needing to fluff their history books.

TDog
12-15-2011, 03:31 PM
Three years with the Sox is not enough for Richie Allen.

As for Wilbur Wood, yes he won two more games than Buehrle, but he lost dozens more. He pitched 0 post-season games with the Sox, didn't win any Gold Gloves, and never threw a no-hitter.


Dick Allen's three years with the White Sox amount to one of the greatest offensive seasons (in context to his team and the league, not statistically) in the history of baseball, a year in which he was injured and a year in which he quit on the team, literally walking out before the season was over. Dick Allen really had only season with the White Sox. It probably saved the franchise, but it was only that one season.

And comparing Wilbur Wood statistically to other White Sox pitchers really isn't fair. After setting what was at the time a record for appearances by a reliever in a season, and starting a couple of games to boot, years before closers tended to pitch just the ninth, he went on to become the anchor in a sometimes three-man rotation.

I don't think his number should be retired, but I believe fans overlook his achievements with Sox that ranged from very bad to very good, with one season that defined .500 baseball -- 80 wins, 80 losses and three times in 1974.

FarmerAndy
12-15-2011, 09:49 PM
No, the Hall of Fame is reserved for Hall of Famers, retired numbers are reserved for special players in a franchise's history that have been memorable to its existance. The Yankees, the ****in Yankees, have retired 6 numbers of guys who are not in the Hall of Fame, and I don't think anyone can accuse them of needing to fluff their history books.

Fair enough.

However, I would still say that it's something that shouldn't happen for a long time, for the sake of being objective. Not just after retirement, but some years after. The past decade is so fresh in our memories. It needs to be evaluated with some historical perspective removed from current feelings.

And if "special players in franchise history that have been memorable to it's existence" is the criteria, then let's get Joe Jackson's photo up on that wall. I don't know that he had a number, and he's banned from baseball and all. But nobody fits that description more than him.