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DirtySox
12-07-2011, 03:51 PM
Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Buerhle to #Marlins: 4 yrs, $58M. #MLB
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

soltrain21
12-07-2011, 03:53 PM
The upcoming hilarity on this board throughout the season has far more potential than the White Sox this year.

Soxman24
12-07-2011, 03:53 PM
Son of a ****ing bitch!

Was hoping it would have been anyone else but them and the Cubs.

Stormin' Norm
12-07-2011, 03:53 PM
:(: It was probably inevitable, but the news is no easier to hear. Thanks for the run Mark, you were great for the Sox!

GoGoCrede
12-07-2011, 03:54 PM
Harder than I thought it would be to see this, even though I knew it was coming.

DirtySox
12-07-2011, 03:55 PM
Blow the rest up please.

hi im skot
12-07-2011, 03:55 PM
Hunting alligators is more fun than hunting deer anyway.

asindc
12-07-2011, 03:55 PM
The upcoming hilarity on this board throughout the season has far more potential than the White Sox this year.

No doubt. Many of the posters who will probably say that Buehrle would be glad to get away from KW and his mess are among those who have said Buehrle is probably glad to get away from Ozzie and his antics.

EDIT: Loved MB while he was here, but he ain't worth 4-58 at this point in his career. Bon chance, Mark!

GoGoCrede
12-07-2011, 03:55 PM
The upcoming hilarity on this board throughout the season has far more potential than the White Sox this year.

I'm currently entertaining myself by refreshing and seeing the number of people on WSI right now blow up.

downstairs
12-07-2011, 03:55 PM
Sad, but I guess we're rebuilding then.

aryzner
12-07-2011, 03:56 PM
Sigh. I knew it was coming but I'm still sad. A player who means so much to the fanbase leaving like this kind of makes me want to cry.

knocko94
12-07-2011, 03:57 PM
That is a **** load of money. Hot damn.

soltrain21
12-07-2011, 03:57 PM
Hunting alligators is more fun than hunting deer anyway.

And the guy wears camouflage whenever he can, so it's not like the ugliness of the uniform was going to alter his signing.

KMcMahon817
12-07-2011, 03:57 PM
CYA, Buerhls. I'll never forget watching the perfect game in my bed on a Sunny Thursday afternoon. You've always been my fav.

CPditka
12-07-2011, 03:57 PM
2011: "All In"
2012: "Gone Fishin' "

TomBradley72
12-07-2011, 03:59 PM
Good for Mark- a great guy who did things the right way.

I think they overpaid- but with a new stadium, manager, Reyes and Buehrle- they might become one of the NL teams I follow (along with Giants from living in SF and Milwaukee)

doublem23
12-07-2011, 04:00 PM
:shocked:

Was not expecting him to get a raise from his last contract.

Adam and Jake, my god, you had better show the **** up in 2012.

roylestillman
12-07-2011, 04:02 PM
Just wanted to remind everybody to update the "favorite White Sox player" section of their profile.

Very sad day. A true end of an era, and I have a feeling we're on our way to the dark side of the moon for a while.

Domeshot17
12-07-2011, 04:04 PM
Bummed to see him go, but I guess the whole "Mark doesn't care about the money, he wants to stay in the midwest and be near his family and pitch 2 more years from the heart" idea was just smashed. Everyone has their price tag, even Mark Buehrle.

DSpivack
12-07-2011, 04:04 PM
Just wanted to remind everybody to update the "favorite White Sox player" section of their profile.

Very sad day. A true end of an era, and I have a feeling we're on our way to the dark side of the moon for a while.

I would update that, but I'll hold off. Who knows who will be left come spring training?

DirtySox
12-07-2011, 04:05 PM
:shocked:

Adam and Jake, my god, you had better show the **** up in 2012.

With the team gutted, I'm sure they will. Rios too.

tstrike2000
12-07-2011, 04:05 PM
Mother Friggin Damn it! And we're stuck here with Dunn and a bum that is Alex Rios.

hi im skot
12-07-2011, 04:05 PM
Bummed to see him go, but I guess the whole "Mark doesn't care about the money, he wants to stay in the midwest and be near his family and pitch 2 more years from the heart" idea was just smashed. Everyone has their price tag, even Mark Buehrle.

Give me a break.

soltrain21
12-07-2011, 04:06 PM
I have a feeling no one from the World Series team will be left before the season starts.

HaroMaster87
12-07-2011, 04:06 PM
Good for Burls...my favorite WS of all time. Should do well in the NL...and a bigger park with the heavy air.

That being said, The Marlins WAAAAAY over paid..WOW...

kufram
12-07-2011, 04:06 PM
It's not like the puppy died. Life goes on. Baseball will be played.

I guess Ozzie isn't so bad to at least one guy who knows the story from the inside.

I love Mark Bhuerle but I'm sure glad we didn't pay $58m to keep him for 3 more years.

soltrain21
12-07-2011, 04:06 PM
Bummed to see him go, but I guess the whole "Mark doesn't care about the money, he wants to stay in the midwest and be near his family and pitch 2 more years from the heart" idea was just smashed. Everyone has their price tag, even Mark Buehrle.

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/dibiase.jpg

Everybody has a price.

CPditka
12-07-2011, 04:08 PM
I seriously just did this.

Just wanted to remind everybody to update the "favorite White Sox player" section of their profile.

Very sad day. A true end of an era, and I have a feeling we're on our way to the dark side of the moon for a while.

manders_01
12-07-2011, 04:09 PM
Well this is a major bummer. :whiner: You will be greatly missed, MB!

Danielgosox38
12-07-2011, 04:09 PM
I didn't expect the Sox to re-sign him. I'm just disappointed that he's playing for Ozzie Guillen now. I hate Ozzie.

Soxman219
12-07-2011, 04:09 PM
Damn, I don't think there is any likeable player on this team left. I gonna miss you, Mark.:(:

GoGoCrede
12-07-2011, 04:09 PM
Just wanted to remind everybody to update the "favorite White Sox player" section of their profile.

Very sad day. A true end of an era, and I have a feeling we're on our way to the dark side of the moon for a while.

This is eerie, and probably true. Better hunker down and see where we're at in spring.

GoGoCrede
12-07-2011, 04:10 PM
Damn, I don't think there is any likeable player on this team left. I gonna miss you, Mark.:(:

:Floyd:

tstrike2000
12-07-2011, 04:10 PM
Damn, I don't think there is any likeable player on this team left. I gonna miss you, Mark.:(:

Konerko.

DSpivack
12-07-2011, 04:11 PM
:Floyd:

Well, he's currently a White Sox, sure, but...:scratch:

Nellie_Fox
12-07-2011, 04:11 PM
No doubt. Many of the posters who will probably say that Buehrle would be glad to get away from KW and his mess are among those who have said Buehrle is probably glad to get away from Ozzie and his antics.Yep, so much for Ozzie having alienated all the veteran players, and how they all wanted to get away from him.

soltrain21
12-07-2011, 04:11 PM
Damn, I don't think there is any likeable player on this team left. I gonna miss you, Mark.:(:

Well, I'm sorry you have to die because Brent Lillibridge is going to murder you with his laser beam eyes.

Soxman219
12-07-2011, 04:11 PM
:Floyd:

True, but I heard he's getting traded too. And I forgot PK.

tstrike2000
12-07-2011, 04:11 PM
Very sad to see Mark leave. It's an end of an era for the White Sox, but I wish him all the best and success, even if it is playing for Ozzie.

peelwonder
12-07-2011, 04:11 PM
Thanks Kenny!


You're bad dealings with Rios and Dunn have now come to roost. I was in his corner before but now I'm completely and utterly hopeless that he can get the job done.

Soxman219
12-07-2011, 04:12 PM
Konerko.

Already put him down on my next post.

GoGoCrede
12-07-2011, 04:12 PM
Well, he's currently a White Sox, sure, but...:scratch:

He's my favorite, that's why I picked him.

Yep, so much for Ozzie having alienated all the veteran players, and how they all wanted to get away from him.

Yeah, this pretty much puts that rumor to rest, unless Mark felt the money was good enough to drown Ozzie out.

ChiSoxGal85
12-07-2011, 04:13 PM
True, but I heard he's getting traded too. And I forgot PK.
Sacrilege!!!

Seriously, I am bummed out. I really hoped JR would pull a rabbit out of his hat at the last minute. Sigh.

Frater Perdurabo
12-07-2011, 04:13 PM
What bothers me most is that I'm not even that surprised, sad, angry or upset.

I wish him the best; I hope he pitches until he gets 300 wins and goes into the HOF as a White Sox.

But I hope the Marlins only win the games he starts and they go 30-132.

Soxman219
12-07-2011, 04:13 PM
Lillibridge is okay too, but he needs to be better this season.

DSpivack
12-07-2011, 04:14 PM
He's my favorite, that's why I picked him.

Yeah, this pretty much puts that rumor to rest, unless Mark felt the money was good enough to drown Ozzie out.

I just meant that you might have to pick a new favorite, considering Floyd could get dealt soon, too.

soltrain21
12-07-2011, 04:14 PM
Thanks Kenny!


You're bad dealings with Rios and Dunn have now come to roost. I was in his corner before but now I'm completely and utterly hopeless that he can get the job done.

I doubt the Sox would have given Mark 14.5 regardless of the situation.

skobabe8
12-07-2011, 04:16 PM
*sigh*

sullythered
12-07-2011, 04:17 PM
Burls is gonna eat the National League for breakfast.

Soxman219
12-07-2011, 04:19 PM
Seriously though, Kenny's bad contracts ****ed the team over for the next few years! Now a fan favorite has to go left us with a lazy bum in Rios, a horribad Adam Dunn, and Peavy, who can't even pitch 100 innings a season without getting injured. Are we really ready to see a rebuilding process here?

Boondock Saint
12-07-2011, 04:20 PM
This just adds another scoop to the **** sundae that has been my day so far.

soltrain21
12-07-2011, 04:21 PM
Seriously though, Kenny's bad contracts ****ed the team over for the next few years! Now a fan favorite has to go left us with a lazy bum in Rios, a horribad Adam Dunn, and Peavy, who can't even pitch 100 innings a season without getting injured. Are we really ready to see a rebuilding process here?

Yes.

peelwonder
12-07-2011, 04:21 PM
I doubt the Sox would have given Mark 14.5 regardless of the situation.


Maybe not...but we're in the spot we're in because of his bad dealings....

Chez
12-07-2011, 04:21 PM
Hmm. From the South Side to South Beach. Buehrle doesn't really strike me as South Beach kind of guy. Best of luck, Mark. I'm sad to see you go.

hi im skot
12-07-2011, 04:22 PM
Seriously though, Kenny's bad contracts ****ed the team over for the next few years! Now a fan favorite has to go left us with a lazy bum in Rios, a horribad Adam Dunn, and Peavy, who can't even pitch 100 innings a season without getting injured. Are we really ready to see a rebuilding process here?

I can't wait to read this post 700 more times this offseason.

ja1022
12-07-2011, 04:23 PM
Good for you Mark. I wouldn't want to offer four at $58 million in the AL.

Great situation for him with a manager he knows in a warm weather NL city.

Good luck and thanks for everything Mark!

hi im skot
12-07-2011, 04:23 PM
Hmm. From the South Side to South Beach. Buehrle doesn't really strike me as South Beach kind of guy. Best of luck, Mark. I'm sad to see you go.

He's going on a shopping spree at the Tommy Bahama outlet store with Ozzie next week.

thomas35forever
12-07-2011, 04:23 PM
Just wanted to remind everybody to update the "favorite White Sox player" section of their profile.

Very sad day. A true end of an era, and I have a feeling we're on our way to the dark side of the moon for a while.
Done.:(:

TheCommander
12-07-2011, 04:23 PM
http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/dibiase.jpg

Everybody has a price.
http://photos.maxim.co.uk/images/library_UK_264/the_million_dollar_man_ted_dibiase_132250_7.jpg

Golden Sox
12-07-2011, 04:24 PM
Instead of spending money on Mark Buehrle, KW is spending money on Peavy, Dunn, Rios and Frazier. How about the $4 million dollars spent on Manny Ramirez at the end of the 2010 season? Is anybody looking forward to the 2012 White Sox season? My main hope for the coming season is that this will be the last year for Ken Williams. I can't think of any potential good things happening for this season except Williams being canned.

DirtySox
12-07-2011, 04:26 PM
cst_Cowley cst_Cowley
KW talks in 20 minutes.
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

TDog
12-07-2011, 04:27 PM
This is unfortunate.

I know the Marlins fans won't appreciate him as much as White Sox fans did. Big-money free agents disappoint fans more often than not, and I hope Buehrle doesn't disappoint fans in Florida. I hope he throws a couple more no hitters and picks up another World Series ring.

I wonder how much Guillen going to the Marlins had to do with Buehrle going to the Marlins. I know players seemed to like playing for Guillen. It's also true that most pitcher don't like the DH rule, but either the St. Louis rumors were exaggerated or Buehrle had no interest of waiting for an offer to develop.

It would have been nice if the White Sox had never signed Dunn and would have been able to give his contract instead.

pmck003
12-07-2011, 04:28 PM
Glad he went to the NL - hopefully four NL all-star appearances.

WhiteSox5187
12-07-2011, 04:28 PM
cst_Cowley cst_Cowley
KW talks in 20 minutes.
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

If I were him I'd keep my mouth shut except to say "I am so sorry I completely ****ed up the White Sox." I just want Kenny to be ****ing gone. I am so pissed.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
12-07-2011, 04:29 PM
Well, the good news is, with the Sox not expected to contend next year or for the foreseeable future, now Dunn and Rios will finally start performing! Yay!

I know it's for the best and I knew it was coming, but that doesn't make MB leaving any less depressing. The guy was one of the best pitchers in Sox history, and it hurts even more to see him go back to that clown Ozzie.

If we get rid of Danks and Floyd, our rotation is going to be pretty damn awful.

CubsfansareDRUNK
12-07-2011, 04:29 PM
Nooooooooooo my favorite sox player!! ****!!!!

VMSNS
12-07-2011, 04:29 PM
I don't think Kenny's bad contracts have much effect on this, to be honest. I love MB, but he's not worth 4/$58million at this point. And he wasn't going to give us a home-town discount this time around.

Good for Mark, though. He's earned a giant payday, even if the Fish did overpay for him. I just wish he was playing for someone other than Ozzie (...was pulling for the Nats to get him. That seems like a better fit for him than Miami). But either way, I wish Mark the best a luck. Great guy, and a great player.

:gulp::gulp::gulp:

As for our White Sox....sad, dark times ahead for this team. As much as I hate Joe ****ing Cowley, I agree with what he said this morning on The Score: this team has no buzz, and no excitement around it. It's going to be long, long season.

Crooked Number
12-07-2011, 04:30 PM
It's been a rough week. I too, am trying to sift through the wreckage, trying to let some of the initial emotional reaction vibes cool down a bit. We knew Burls was going to go, but I thought it would be AZ or STL, did not see Oz getting #56. Man.

Yes, I too am fretting about seeing Dunn whiff his way to infamy with us. Something in my mind refuses to believe that he completely forgot how to play baseball though. If he does repeat last year, it truly will be (in my mind) one of the biggest mysteries I've ever seen. Yes, aging sluggers decline, but this is catastrophic. I think even 25 and 80 would be a huge step for him, and that still is way way below his career averages before he came here.

It's going to be a rough one next year ladies and gents....as Samuel L would say in Jurassic Park "Hold onto your butts" :(:

MeteorsSox4367
12-07-2011, 04:30 PM
He's going on a shopping spree at the Tommy Bahama outlet store with Ozzie next week.

Does Tommy Bahama come in camo and can you wear it in a duck blind?

sullythered
12-07-2011, 04:32 PM
I don't think Kenny's bad contracts have much effect on this, to be honest. I love MB, but he's not worth 4/$58million at this point. And he wasn't going to give us a home-town discount this time around.

Good for Mark, though. He's earned a giant payday, even if the Fish did overpay for him. I just wish he was playing for someone other than Ozzie (...was pulling for the Nats to get him. That seems like a better fit for him than Miami). But either way, I wish Mark the best a luck. Great guy, and a great player.

:gulp::gulp::gulp:

As for our White Sox....sad, dark times ahead for this team. As much as I hate Joe ****ing Cowley, I agree with what he said this morning on The Score: this team has no buzz, and no excitement around it. It's going to be long, long season.

Kenny's bad contracts have an effect on everything White Sox.

DirtySox
12-07-2011, 04:33 PM
I don't think Kenny's bad contracts have much effect on this, to be honest. I love MB, but he's not worth 4/$58million at this point. And he wasn't going to give us a home-town discount this time around.


Is it that people think he's going to be less effective near the tail end of his contract? I mean isn't this contract just 2 million more total than his last one?

Frontman
12-07-2011, 04:35 PM
Haven't seen it; but can someone create a "fire Kenny" photo? I'm sick of him and his cheap as far as talent; but quick to spend on his softball league approach to baseball.

As the Hawkeroo would put it,

"I sure wish I could cuss right now!"

GoGoCrede
12-07-2011, 04:35 PM
Well, the good news is, with the Sox not expected to contend next year or for the foreseeable future, now Dunn and Rios will finally start performing! Yay!

I know it's for the best and I knew it was coming, but that doesn't make MB leaving any less depressing. The guy was one of the best pitchers in Sox history, and it hurts even more to see him go back to that clown Ozzie.

If we get rid of Danks and Floyd, our rotation is going to be pretty damn awful.

Yeah, this really chaps my hide, although I'm aware of how petty it is.

veeter
12-07-2011, 04:36 PM
Well, I guess our ******* announcer Hawk was right, when he told us the last two weeks of the season, Mark wouldn't be back.

DirtySox
12-07-2011, 04:36 PM
Well, I'm sorry you have to die because Brent Lillibridge is going to murder you with his laser beam eyes.

You might not want to read this (http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbbuzz/white_sox_not_as_active_as_expected_at_winter_meet ings/8582935?new_post=true) then.

Irishsox1
12-07-2011, 04:36 PM
An absolute awesome Sox pitcher. 2 no hitters, saved a World Series game, 161 wins.....gonna be missed. :whiner:

Any chance Alex Rios was somehow signed also? That would bring out the biggest dancing banana the internet has ever seen.

soltrain21
12-07-2011, 04:38 PM
You might not want to read this (http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbbuzz/white_sox_not_as_active_as_expected_at_winter_meet ings/8582935?new_post=true) then.

Well ****.

GoGoCrede
12-07-2011, 04:38 PM
Well ****.

As if today could get any worse, right? :mad:

October26
12-07-2011, 04:38 PM
Sad day for me. :(:

thomas35forever
12-07-2011, 04:39 PM
As for our White Sox....sad, dark times ahead for this team. As much as I hate Joe ****ing Cowley, I agree with what he said this morning on The Score: this team has no buzz, and no excitement around it. It's going to be long, long season.
Yep. Somehow though, we're going to have to find a way to watch this team. Won't be enjoyable, but if we're true fans, we'll stick by them. It doesn't feel very good though that we're entering an era where the Sox not only play below a high level, but no one expects them to compete either. It's going to be 1998-99 all over again. How long it'll last is anyone's guess.

Frontman
12-07-2011, 04:39 PM
On a positive note; I wish Mark and his family nothing but the best. Still going to wear his jersey to games; still going to love owning his autographed photo from Game 2; still going to hope he wins every start (save interleague against the Sox.)

Good luck, Buhrlymon; and hope you get a bronze statue on the concourse upon retirement!

siugrad25
12-07-2011, 04:39 PM
First off, I'm absolutely bummed that we won't be able to watch one of the all-time best Sox pitchers retire on the South Side. However, the only saving grace I have is the Marlins are my second favorite team behind the Sox for the past eight years.

veeter
12-07-2011, 04:40 PM
I'm shocked he picked Miami, but I'll always root for Mark. But, I also hope Hanley Ramirez truly is pissed and a circus ensues down there. I loathe Ozzie and his jerk-off kids. And I'm irritated at how good they must be feeling sticking it to Kenny and the Sox.

KMcMahon817
12-07-2011, 04:40 PM
If I were him I'd keep my mouth shut except to say "I am so sorry I completely ****ed up the White Sox." I just want Kenny to be ****ing gone. I am so pissed.

We get it, you don't like Kenny.

WhiteSox5187
12-07-2011, 04:41 PM
You might not want to read this (http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbbuzz/white_sox_not_as_active_as_expected_at_winter_meet ings/8582935?new_post=true) then.

Good God. What the **** is this team doing? What is Kenny doing? Does anyone know? I don't even think he knows. I'm so mad right now.

VMSNS
12-07-2011, 04:41 PM
Is it that people think he's going to be less effective near the tail end of his contract? I mean isn't this contract just 2 million more total than his last one?

For me, I don't think so. Mark could pitch effectively for another 5 years if he wanted to. I just think that even if we did money to spend, we wouldn't give him 4 years $58 million. The Marlins are determined to make a splash (haha), and they're going to do that in any way possible, including overpaying for FAs.

Kenny has really screwed this team, and I don't trust for one second that he'll be able to effectively rebuild the White Sox. But, I don't think Kenny's failings have much to do with this, IMO.

Saufley
12-07-2011, 04:43 PM
It is really going to be interesting to see what Kenny does with Danks, Floyd, Quentin and Thornton. Does he get back ready to play ballplayers or guys that hopefully will be in the majors in two or three years. If Danks and Floyd are both traded I shudder to think what the starting rotation will look like next year. Trade them all now and get it done. Hate this suspense.

soltrain21
12-07-2011, 04:44 PM
Good God. What the **** is this team doing? What is Kenny doing? Does anyone know? I don't even think he knows. I'm so mad right now.

Well, obviously they are rebuilding. And that usually entails, you know, trading people away.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
12-07-2011, 04:44 PM
For me, I don't think so. Mark could pitch effectively for another 5 years if he wanted to. I just think that even if we did money to spend, we wouldn't give him 4 years $58 million. The Marlins are determined to make a splash (haha), and they're going to do that in any way possible, including overpaying for FAs.

I wonder how bad the bloodletting is going to be when the shine of the new ballpark wears off and fans stop going in year 2.

TommyGavinFloyd
12-07-2011, 04:44 PM
I'm shocked he picked Miami, but I'll always root for Mark. But, I also hope Hanley Ramirez truly is pissed and a circus ensues down there. I loathe Ozzie and his jerk-off kids. And I'm irritated at how good they must be feeling sticking it to Kenny and the Sox.

I'm not shocked he picked Miami at all. Clearly they are throwing around money, and a bunch of goofs on a message board ranting about what kind of person Ozzie is is different than actually knowing him and working with him for the better part of 7 years. Good for Mark, he's earned it. I hope he does great and I hope that if we don't win the World Series, they do.

Frontman
12-07-2011, 04:44 PM
For me, I don't think so. Mark could pitch effectively for another 5 years if he wanted to. I just think that even if we did money to spend, we wouldn't give him 4 years $58 million. The Marlins are determined to make a splash (haha), and they're going to do that in any way possible, including overpaying for FAs.

Kenny has really screwed this team, and I don't trust for one second that he'll be able to effectively rebuild the White Sox. But, I don't think Kenny's failings have much to do with this, IMO.

Directly, no; Kenny isn't the only reason the Sox couldn't re-sign Mark. But; Kenny has hamstrung this team something fierce; and only after season-ticket down payments were in did he mention "fire sale" and "rebuilding" to the fan base.

I'm now beginning to feel that Kenny lucked into the 05 roster; instead of making intelligent moves in the previous off season.

asindc
12-07-2011, 04:45 PM
Is it that people think he's going to be less effective near the tail end of his contract? I mean isn't this contract just 2 million more total than his last one?

It's what I think at least. MB might come close to matching his previous 4-year totals now that he is in the NL, but if he had stayed here, I didn't see it. Apparently neither did Texas, Detroit, or any other AL club, for that matter.

hi im skot
12-07-2011, 04:46 PM
I'm now beginning to feel that Kenny lucked into the 05 roster; instead of making intelligent moves in the previous off season.

Yeah, that's it. :rolleyes:

BleacherBandit
12-07-2011, 04:47 PM
I'm now beginning to feel that Kenny lucked into the 05 roster; instead of making intelligent moves in the previous off season.

Really? So he "lucked" into Jermaine Dye, Scott Podsednik, and A.J. Pierzynski? Like they were already on the roster before he arrived?


Although to agree with your sentiment, the Sox better be REALLY good in 2013 or else everyone (in addition to many of the fanatics on WSI) will be asking for his head. Next year will suck, but I want to see if the Sox are a contender a few years down the road before I join the anti-Kenny bandwagon.

DirtySox
12-07-2011, 04:48 PM
cst_Cowley cst_Cowley
"He will be missed... We have to move forward." KW on Buehrle.
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

sullythered
12-07-2011, 04:49 PM
Kenny didn't luck into anything just like Ozzie didn't luck into anything. Kenny did a good job then, and a very bad job later. He should be gone.

WhiteSox5187
12-07-2011, 04:50 PM
Well, obviously they are rebuilding. And that usually entails, you know, trading people away.

Yea but the only guy they traded away was young and cheap. That's not usually what rebuilding entails. I don't mind rebuilding, I do mind Kenny being in charge of rebuilding given the state of the farm system under his tenure.

soxinem1
12-07-2011, 04:50 PM
For me, I don't think so. Mark could pitch effectively for another 5 years if he wanted to. I just think that even if we did money to spend, we wouldn't give him 4 years $58 million. The Marlins are determined to make a splash (haha), and they're going to do that in any way possible, including overpaying for FAs.

Kenny has really screwed this team, and I don't trust for one second that he'll be able to effectively rebuild the White Sox. But, I don't think Kenny's failings have much to do with this, IMO.

I guess it also means that Buehrle has no problems committing to Ozzie as his manager for four years.

Curious that the laid-back guy chose to accompany his motor-mouth manager out of town.......

But thinking of MB in those ugly new MIA jerseys is just......... ugh!!!

soltrain21
12-07-2011, 04:51 PM
Yea but the only guy they traded away was young and cheap. That's not usually what rebuilding entails. I don't mind rebuilding, I do mind Kenny being in charge of rebuilding given the state of the farm system under his tenure.

They traded their closer. Do you keep a closer around if you have no leads to protect? I think not.

BleacherBandit
12-07-2011, 04:52 PM
Yea but the only guy they traded away was young and cheap. That's not usually what rebuilding entails. I don't mind rebuilding, I do mind Kenny being in charge of rebuilding given the state of the farm system under his tenure.

Yeah. Wheeling-and-dealing only works a-la-Kenny if you have worthy pieces to trade. Do we have many of following Santos? I mean actual 25-man-roster players?

gobears1987
12-07-2011, 04:53 PM
I thought the players all hated Ozzie

WhiteSox5187
12-07-2011, 04:53 PM
They traded their closer. Do you keep a closer around if you have no leads to protect? I think not.

That's fine, but do you trade a young cheap closer who is under your control for the next six seasons for only a pitcher who most people have pegged as a middle of the rotation guy?

soltrain21
12-07-2011, 04:53 PM
Yeah. Wheeling-and-dealing only works a-la-Kenny if you have worthy pieces to trade. Do we have many of following Santos? I mean actual 25-man-roster players?

Floyd, Danks and Konerko would be very desirable to plenty of teams. I bet AJ would get a little interest, too. So would Thornton and Crain.

gobears1987
12-07-2011, 04:54 PM
I wish Buehrle the best of luck. I'll be cheering for him to continue his success.

soltrain21
12-07-2011, 04:54 PM
That's fine, but do you trade a young cheap closer who is under your control for the next six seasons for only a pitcher who most people have pegged as a middle of the rotation guy?

When the closer is 28 and the SP you get back is 22, yes.

BleacherBandit
12-07-2011, 04:54 PM
That's fine, but do you trade a young cheap closer who is under your control for the next six seasons for only a pitcher who most people have pegged as a middle of the rotation guy?

In my eyes, it is fine. We're going to need pitchers of that projection once Danks or (and?) Floyd are gone.

gobears1987
12-07-2011, 04:55 PM
Buehrle surpassed Frank as my all-time favorite Sox player during his tenure here. He will have plenty of opportunities to slide on tarp in Miami.

WhiteSox5187
12-07-2011, 04:55 PM
Yeah. Wheeling-and-dealing only works a-la-Kenny if you have worthy pieces to trade. Do we have many of following Santos? I mean actual 25-man-roster players?

We have some trading chips, Quentin could be dealt, someone might take Thornton, there is interest in Floyd and Danks. Our best trading chip is Konerko if we're real serious about rebuilding.

hi im skot
12-07-2011, 04:56 PM
When the closer is 28 and the SP you get back is 22, yes.

Especially when Santos isn't exactly proven as a closer yet.

DSpivack
12-07-2011, 04:56 PM
Buehrle surpassed Frank as my all-time favorite Sox player during his tenure here. He will have plenty of opportunities to slide on tarp in Miami.

It's a retractable roof stadium. I doubt it. :tongue:

asindc
12-07-2011, 04:56 PM
That's fine, but do you trade a young cheap closer who is under your control for the next six seasons for only a pitcher who most people have pegged as a middle of the rotation guy?

Nor more so than you trade a "proven workhorse" for a unproven prospect.

DirtySox
12-07-2011, 04:57 PM
cst_Cowley cst_Cowley
Buehrle and his camp did come back to the Sox with last chance. They said Grats and goodbye.
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

chisoxfanatic
12-07-2011, 04:57 PM
*sigh*
skobabe, the photo in your signature just breaks my heart! Whenever we had extended losing streaks, at least I held hope that Buehrle was going to be the guy to break it. There aren't many things to look forward to now come next season if KW keeps on doing these kinds of things.

Color me bummed.

gobears1987
12-07-2011, 04:58 PM
This didn't hit me as hard as I thought it would. I guess I was just prepared for it.

BleacherBandit
12-07-2011, 04:58 PM
We have some trading chips, Quentin could be dealt, someone might take Thornton, there is interest in Floyd and Danks. Our best trading chip is Konerko if we're real serious about rebuilding.

I doubt trading Konerko will yield many high-projection players. Especially with this off-season's 1st Baseman pool. I do want to see Quentin go, though. If we are rebuilding, I mean.

Don't trade Danks this off-season, or during the year. With Buehrle gone, he's our top left-hander. You want rebuilding, build a staff around him or something. I don't know. I'm not at GM.

WhiteSox5187
12-07-2011, 04:58 PM
cst_Cowley cst_Cowley
Buehrle and his camp did come back to the Sox with last chance. They said Grats and goodbye.
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Ugh......that makes me so sad. This might be the winter of Sox fans' discontent...

chisoxfanatic
12-07-2011, 04:58 PM
cst_Cowley cst_Cowley
Buehrle and his camp did come back to the Sox with last chance. They said Grats and goodbye.
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Ugh! Well **** you, Kenny!

HomeFish
12-07-2011, 04:59 PM
If you are a White Sox fan who likes Mark Buehrle, this is the best case scenario: Beuhrle gets paid big, but not by us.

GoGoCrede
12-07-2011, 05:00 PM
cst_Cowley cst_Cowley
Buehrle and his camp did come back to the Sox with last chance. They said Grats and goodbye.
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

:whiner:(taken with a grain of salt, of course, considering the source)

DirtySox
12-07-2011, 05:00 PM
Ugh! Well **** you, Kenny!

What was he supposed to do? No $$$$$$.

asindc
12-07-2011, 05:00 PM
I can't believe how many here wanted the Sox to pay MB 4-58. Really?

hi im skot
12-07-2011, 05:01 PM
What was he supposed to do? No $$$$$$.

Seriously. Florida overpaid. You think the Sox are screwed in 2012? They're in even worse shape for much longer with a contract like Buehrle's on the books.

KMcMahon817
12-07-2011, 05:06 PM
I can't believe how many here wanted the Sox to pay MB 4-58. Really?

No, ****. Some people need to get a grip. Buehrls is great...hell, he's one of my all-time favorites. But, as I have been saying all offseason, the SOX should not pay him $14M per. We need to rid ourselves of doing that...and its funny, the same people bitching about Rios, Dunn, PV contracts are the same people acting like a kid who didn't get anything on Christmas.

It is a sad day, no doubt. But, we all knew it was coming. MB was priced out of our range, and KW was smart not to bite. He would have had to trade Danks and Quentin in order to make that cash up...which is just a lateral move, at best. Not saying they wont be moved anyway, but MB would have just soaked up the savings.

Vernam
12-07-2011, 05:10 PM
After looking really hard for a bright spot, I've decided to be grateful that we have a manager who won't create some embarrassing feud with one of the classiest former Sox players just because he went to play somewhere else. And I'm pretty sure I can count on our fans not to boo Mark if he ever shows up here in one of those butt-ugly Marlin uniforms. That's all I got.

Oh, and another bright spot is that we aren't on the hook to pay him all that cash. Of course, if we weren't on the hook with a few other lesser figures...

Vernam

GoGoCrede
12-07-2011, 05:14 PM
Wow, did WSI momentarily crash for anyone else?

doublem23
12-07-2011, 05:15 PM
Buehrle surpassed Frank as my all-time favorite Sox player during his tenure here. He will have plenty of opportunities to slide on tarp in Miami.

They play in a dome now

SI1020
12-07-2011, 05:19 PM
Kenny's bad contracts have an effect on everything White Sox. Very true.

cheezheadsoxfan
12-07-2011, 05:20 PM
Like everyone else, sad but not surprised. I wish him nothing but the best. At least it's the other league and not the Yanks, Cubs or Twins. I may go to the dump for the second time in 40 years to see him beat the Cubs.

soltrain21
12-07-2011, 05:22 PM
Ugh! Well **** you, Kenny!

I don't understand how that makes a difference.

TaylorStSox
12-07-2011, 05:24 PM
It is what it is... like others have said, it's a bad contract. I'll miss MB, but up until his free agent year, he was on a steady decline. I get less and llless emotional over player movement. My loyalty is to the uniform.

kobo
12-07-2011, 05:27 PM
This didn't hit me as hard as I thought it would. I guess I was just prepared for it.
Exactly how I feel. I knew he was gone, there was no way he was going to come back here for a discount and with so much interest shown in him the last couple weeks in my mind he was already gone. Best of luck to him in Miami, and I think moving to the NL is a great move for him.

KyWhiSoxFan
12-07-2011, 05:37 PM
Buehrle will do well in the NL and is far better off in the NL at this point in his career than in the AL. He has had a lot of success vs. the NL in interleague play.

Not disappointed or surprised by the decision. It was time for him to move on, particularly at that price.

russ99
12-07-2011, 05:58 PM
I can't believe how many here wanted the Sox to pay MB 4-58. Really?

Buehrle was paid $14M by the Sox the last two seasons.

So it's a bit of a stretch that they couldn't match the Marlins and pay him $14.5. Especially how Konerko and Pierzynski were given similar raises last year... Very disappointing.

soxfan43
12-07-2011, 06:01 PM
It is what it is... like others have said, it's a bad contract. I'll miss MB, but up until his free agent year, he was on a steady decline. I get less and llless emotional over player movement. My loyalty is to the uniform.

But according to Cowley I thought we're all supposed to run out and buy Marlins gear now!

I'll miss Mark a ton, great guy, great player. But like you said, the contract is bad and he has been in a decline. Sox fans have way bigger issues to worry about than getting upset over this. Good luck Mark, you'll be missed.

kobo
12-07-2011, 06:02 PM
Buehrle was paid $14M by the Sox the last two seasons.

So it's a bit of a stretch that they couldn't match the Marlins and pay him $14.5. Especially how Konerko and Pierzynski were given similar raises last year... Very disappointing.
Not really a stretch given the way this season unfolded and that we all knew there was going to be a reduction in payroll heading into next season.

russ99
12-07-2011, 06:07 PM
Not really a stretch given the way this season unfolded and that we all knew there was going to be a reduction in payroll heading into next season.

Very true, but still a bit of a kick in the pants.

I wonder if the Sox are going to trade A.J. to the Marlins too...

QueerGirrl
12-07-2011, 06:09 PM
Honestly I was hoping against hope (I know, I know)...but good luck Mark and we'll miss you. Thanks for everything. :(:

Bucky F. Dent
12-07-2011, 06:11 PM
My baseball team is not supposed to make me cry in my beer in December!

We will miss you Burls - You're the best!



:whiner:

Steelrod
12-07-2011, 06:17 PM
Who is going to pick up all these contracts in 2013, after the bloom is off the rose at Miami's stadium, and they are back to drawing 8-10k each game?

Bruizer
12-07-2011, 06:28 PM
The Marlins come to Milwaukee to play a four game series in July. I think I'll head up there to watch Buehrle pitch if he ends up pitching one of the games. I miss the guy already. I really treasure his final Sox game now.

LITTLE NELL
12-07-2011, 06:30 PM
I'm depressed. I really thought that JR would save the day and MB would stay with the Sox. I haven't felt this bad since we traded Nellie Fox after the 63 season. I will be watchng a lot of Marlin games this summer as I watch them and the Rays I will be pulling for MB but its going to be hard to have to watch Ozzie and his antics again.

SOXSINCE'70
12-07-2011, 06:32 PM
I'll always remember the Rain Delay slip and slide festival in 2005 with you and Man Soo Lee doing bellyflops on a wet tarp at Comiskey.
You always knew how to have a good time.Just make sure you beat a certain North Side team whenever you face them.Best of luck.:(:

BleacherBandit
12-07-2011, 06:33 PM
It has become increasingly rare for a player to spend his entire career with one ball-club.

I guess it wasn't to be, Mark. I hope you get to pitch with the Sox somewhere down the line (I know that's very improbable to out of the question).

Moses_Scurry
12-07-2011, 06:40 PM
So long Mark. You'll always be on my White Sox Mount Rushmore. I wouldn't want to stick around for the upcoming famine either. Good luck in Florida. I hope you and Ozzie run off a nice streak there.

If the Sox are going to stink they might as well do it right. Who are the consensus top draft picks in 2013? There is no excuse to not grab one of them now with the new CBA.

ChiSoxGal85
12-07-2011, 06:52 PM
Who is going to pick up all these contracts in 2013, after the bloom is off the rose at Miami's stadium, and they are back to drawing 8-10k each game?
Maybe the White Sox kick butt in 2012 and the Marlins trade MB back to the Sox... :smokin:

I'm depressed. I really thought thet JR would save the day and MB would stay with the Sox. I haven't felt this bad since we traded Nellie Fox after the 63 season.
This is exactly how I feel. Sigh.

Hitmen77
12-07-2011, 06:53 PM
Ugh......that makes me so sad. This might be the winter of Sox fans' discontent...

...followed by several summers of our discontent.

At least when the Sox sucked in the late 80s and the late 90s, they had a lot of young, exciting talent waiting in the wings. Now, KW's regime has left this team with little talent on the horizon.

russ99
12-07-2011, 06:58 PM
At least when the Sox sucked in the late 80s and the late 90s, they had a lot of young, exciting talent waiting in the wings. Now, KW's regime has left this team with little talent on the horizon.

We'll have to see about that. Kenny surely isn't done trading. Maybe in the next deal we can get someone who can step in and play for the Sox next year.

Moses_Scurry
12-07-2011, 07:05 PM
...followed by several summers of our discontent.

At least when the Sox sucked in the late 80s and the late 90s, they had a lot of young, exciting talent waiting in the wings. Now, KW's regime has left this team with little talent on the horizon.

I don't think it looks that much worse than the late '80's or '90's looked at the time. The '90 and '00 teams were complete surprises. Those horizons look better now because we know how they turned out. The farm looks bad because most of the young talent is already on the major league team. These trades of Danks, Floyd, Quentin, Thornton, etc will go a long way in seeing how the youth compares to the late '80's and '90's.

34rancher
12-07-2011, 07:10 PM
Call me crazy, but this is 100% in my opinion due to signing that giant donkey. I blame Adam Dunn for this. If we don't sign him, i believe we win the central last year and buerhle is still here. The money we spent on him. Ugh!!!! God I hate him more now than ever.

DSpivack
12-07-2011, 07:13 PM
I don't think it looks that much worse than the late '80's or '90's looked at the time. The '90 and '00 teams were complete surprises. Those horizons look better now because we know how they turned out. The farm looks bad because most of the young talent is already on the major league team. These trades of Danks, Floyd, Quentin, Thornton, etc will go a long way in seeing how the youth compares to the late '80's and '90's.

The farm looks bad because it is bad. There isn't that much young talent on the major league team. Viciedo and Sale seem good thus far; Beckham has been a disappointment thus far; Morel has a nice glove but who knows if his bat will ever be good enough; and I'm not impressed by Flowers.

TheVulture
12-07-2011, 07:22 PM
Seriously. Florida overpaid.

I'm still waiting for examples of similar pitchers signed for less than 14 million a year in the last few years.

Moses_Scurry
12-07-2011, 07:30 PM
The farm looks bad because it is bad. There isn't that much young talent on the major league team. Viciedo and Sale seem good thus far; Beckham has been a disappointment thus far; Morel has a nice glove but who knows if his bat will ever be good enough; and I'm not impressed by Flowers.

I agree that the talent isn't great, but the team has a lot of youth that is at least competent and could potentially be good. I just disagree with the idea that the late '80's and '90's teams were viewed so highly as future cores compared to now. This is more so the case with the late '90's team. There was very little to be excited about. 2000 happened largely because of Jose Valentin + Cal Eldred and the loss of Navarro as well as a pitching staff that was waaaaaaay over it's head (what did Sirotka, Parque, Eldred, and Baldwin really do after 2000?).

I remember 1987 very well as a team that stunk in almost every facet. Their best player was Ivan Calderon. McDowell was exciting, but nobody knew he would be as good as he ended up being. Thomas, Ventura, and Fernandez were not on the radar yet. Things were very bleak. In my opinion it was worse than it is now. It is very possible that the next McDowell, Ventura, and Fernandez will come in the next draft or two or as a result of trades Kenny makes with Danks et al.

I'm not saying it will happen in 2012, but it will happen. The Sox are not like the Royals or Pirates. The new CBA makes it likely that they will draft good players and not just safe, signable players. And they play in a division with no clearly dominant team. They'll be back. In the mean time, I'll go to my 2-3 games per summer and hope for the best.

GoGoCrede
12-07-2011, 07:32 PM
Did KW say anything else in the press conference besides "We'll miss him, but we have to move on?"

DSpivack
12-07-2011, 07:46 PM
I agree that the talent isn't great, but the team has a lot of youth that is at least competent and could potentially be good. I just disagree with the idea that the late '80's and '90's teams were viewed so highly as future cores compared to now. This is more so the case with the late '90's team. There was very little to be excited about. 2000 happened largely because of Jose Valentin + Cal Eldred and the loss of Navarro as well as a pitching staff that was waaaaaaay over it's head (what did Sirotka, Parque, Eldred, and Baldwin really do after 2000?).

I remember 1987 very well as a team that stunk in almost every facet. Their best player was Ivan Calderon. McDowell was exciting, but nobody knew he would be as good as he ended up being. Thomas, Ventura, and Fernandez were not on the radar yet. Things were very bleak. In my opinion it was worse than it is now. It is very possible that the next McDowell, Ventura, and Fernandez will come in the next draft or two or as a result of trades Kenny makes with Danks et al.

I'm not saying it will happen in 2012, but it will happen. The Sox are not like the Royals or Pirates. The new CBA makes it likely that they will draft good players and not just safe, signable players. And they play in a division with no clearly dominant team. They'll be back. In the mean time, I'll go to my 2-3 games per summer and hope for the best.

I'm too young to remember the teams of the 80s, so I wasn't trying to make a comparison to then. My apologies if that was the case.

I was just trying to say that on it's own--in comparison to most other teams in baseball--the White Sox have little in the way of young talent, either down on the farm or already in the majors. I am not optimistic in the short-term, because of the 3 bad contracts we're most likely stuck with: Peavy for next season, and Dunn & Rios through 2014.

palehosepub
12-07-2011, 07:50 PM
Did KW say anything else in the press conference besides "We'll miss him, but we have to move on?"

Like "I mismanaged numerous signings, waiver deals and free agent contracts so now we can't afford to keep Mark Buehrle". That would be a start.

asindc
12-07-2011, 07:56 PM
Like "I mismanaged numerous signings, waiver deals and free agent contracts so now we can't afford to keep Mark Buehrle". That would be a start.

Or more likely, "Even if I hadn't made those moves, we would not have paid Mark that much to come back. We understand Mark taking Miami's very generous offer."

Moses_Scurry
12-07-2011, 08:02 PM
I'm too young to remember the teams of the 80s, so I wasn't trying to make a comparison to then. My apologies if that was the case.

I was just trying to say that on it's own--in comparison to most other teams in baseball--the White Sox have little in the way of young talent, either down on the farm or already in the majors. I am not optimistic in the short-term, because of the 3 bad contracts we're most likely stuck with: Peavy for next season, and Dunn & Rios through 2014.

This I can agree with. The team is very likely to be bad in 2012 and probably 2013. However, I have some hope mainly because of the division. I feel that the Tigers are at their peak now, but they won't stay there long. They'll probably win the division in '12, but the economy and their good players becoming even more expensive will start to take a toll. In 2008 after they traded for Cabrera, they were supposed to be incredible, and they sucked. That could very well happen again.

I don't see Cleveland or Minny being in a far better situation than the Sox. Maybe the Royals with their young players, but I don't think it is a sure thing. I'm hoping for a resurgence by 2014. I would be surprised if Dunn and Rios are still on the team by then. They will find somebody to take them and save maybe 2-3 million each on salary, which will be a major addition by subtraction. When the payroll resources are equal to or higher than everyone in the division, there should never be a super prolonged drought.

TDog
12-07-2011, 08:11 PM
Or more likely, "Even if I hadn't made those moves, we would not have paid Mark that much to come back. We understand Mark taking Miami's very generous offer."

I don't believe that is true. I actually believe that without the Dunn signing (and I think the Sox would have had a better shot at competing against the Tigers last year if they had not signed Dunn, always have), the Sox would have resigned Buehrle.

Unlike the Dunn contract, Buehrle's deal doesn't appear to be financially silly from the start.

doublem23
12-07-2011, 08:17 PM
Gotta love the people who need to tell everyone how smart they are because they don't like guys who hit home runs at every opportunity!

SI1020
12-07-2011, 08:25 PM
Gotta love the people who need to tell everyone how smart they are because they don't like guys who hit home runs at every opportunity! You referring to Babe Ruth or maybe Hank Aaron?

tebman
12-07-2011, 08:25 PM
I was away from the news until about a half-hour ago and now that I've heard it, man, this hurts. I was delusional, I know, but I really thought that JR was going to come in at the eleventh hour and close the deal.

According to Cowley's update Buehrle's agent gave the Sox a last chance. Maybe they were thinking the same thing, that JR wouldn't let Mark get away. But it wasn't meant to be.

Having said all that, $58 million is crazy money, even for Buehrle. I'm glad the Sox didn't pay it. Save the money and rebuild. I just hope KW and his brain trust know what the hell they're doing.

HaroMaster87
12-07-2011, 08:25 PM
And not to piss in everyone's corn flakes but correct if I'm wrong but didn't the value of guys like Danks and TCQ go down because of the CBA? Because of the compensation for losing guys to free agency correct? So that's gonna make it a lot harder to get decent value in return for guys of their ilk, correct? Kenny already stated in a sound bite that the offers haven't been anywhere even close for those guys...

keloms
12-07-2011, 08:28 PM
http://miami.marlins.mlb.com/images/players/525x330/279824.jpg

Frontman
12-07-2011, 08:39 PM
Really? So he "lucked" into Jermaine Dye, Scott Podsednik, and A.J. Pierzynski? Like they were already on the roster before he arrived?


Although to agree with your sentiment, the Sox better be REALLY good in 2013 or else everyone (in addition to many of the fanatics on WSI) will be asking for his head. Next year will suck, but I want to see if the Sox are a contender a few years down the road before I join the anti-Kenny bandwagon.

Beyond the 90 win 06 season, and the backdoor back-into 163 game 08 season; KW hasn't really put together a viable playoff contender since 05, has he?

NOW, we need to be patient for an ENTIRE YEAR to see what he can do? Seriously?

I'm still a Sox fan; but Kenny better put together a 100+ game wire-to-wire championship team in 2013 to make up for these past 3 years and the additional suckfest to come known as 2012.

And the sad thing is? Kenny will get a pass on this. I'll call it now. Ventura will be the fall guy; Kenny will get another few years with another manager after Robin fails (with the garbage Kenny provided) and in the meantime we'll watch as Danks, Buehrle, Santos, as well as other talented players the Sox had go onto winning teams while we watch the AAA "If you guys actually came out to the ballpark, I could get better talent" that will surround Adam Dunn and Alex Rios.

My God; as least KW could of thrown us a bone here and brought back Mark. But no; we'll have to was garbage baseball for a few years to make up for it.

Man, I'm bugged.

soltrain21
12-07-2011, 08:40 PM
Beyond the 90 win 06 season, and the backdoor back-into 163 game 08 season; KW hasn't really put together a viable playoff contender since 05, has he?

NOW, we need to be patient for an ENTIRE YEAR to see what he can do? Seriously?

I'm still a Sox fan; but Kenny better put together a 100+ game wire-to-wire championship team in 2013 to make up for these past 3 years and the additional suckfest to come known as 2012.

And the sad thing is? Kenny will get a pass on this. I'll call it now. Ventura will be the fall guy; Kenny will get another few years with another manager after Robin fails (with the garbage Kenny provided) and in the meantime we'll watch as Danks, Buehrle, Santos, as well as other talented players the Sox had go onto winning teams while we watch the AAA "If you guys actually came out to the ballpark, I could get better talent" that will surround Adam Dunn and Alex Rios.

My God; as least KW could of thrown us a bone here and brought back Mark. But no; we'll have to was garbage baseball for a few years to make up for it.

Man, I'm bugged.

I'm quite certain KW didn't set the payroll limits.

Frontman
12-07-2011, 08:44 PM
I'm quite certain KW didn't set the payroll limits.

I know its circular logic; but had he not overspent on Peavy/Rios/Dunn; payroll wouldn't be as bad off now, would it?

And people are right; 58 million is a lot of bank for Mark; HOWEVER, since he remained with the Sox in the past AT A DISCOUNT, you'd think the Sox would take care of one of their own.

But considering how KW (as well as the organization as a whole) has treated previous players like Fisk and Thomas; Mark would be easy to let go.

Seriously, I'm beginning to think the Sox like to burn bridges when people leave after the token "We wish them well" just to keep the angst level up.

And seriously; if Kenny thinks Aaron Rowand is a consolation prize signing for the average Sox fan to replace fan favorite Mark?

More like a boobie prize.

soltrain21
12-07-2011, 08:47 PM
I know its circular logic; but had he not overspent on Peavy/Rios/Dunn; payroll wouldn't be as bad off now, would it?

And people are right; 58 million is a lot of bank for Mark; HOWEVER, since he remained with the Sox in the past AT A DISCOUNT, you'd think the Sox would take care of one of their own.

But considering how KW (as well as the organization as a whole) has treated previous players like Fisk and Thomas; Mark would be easy to let go.

Seriously, I'm beginning to think the Sox like to burn bridges when people leave after the token "We wish them well" just to keep the angst level up.

And seriously; if Kenny thinks Aaron Rowand is a consolation prize signing for the average Sox fan to replace fan favorite Mark?

More like a boobie prize.

The signings were good (except Rios). It's the production that screwed that Sox, and no one would have predicted Adam Dunn to have, historically, the worst season ever.

The moves were good at the time for a team that was going for it. It didn't work out. But you make that Dunn deal 10 out of 10 times.

ChiSoxGirl
12-07-2011, 08:51 PM
http://miami.marlins.mlb.com/images/players/525x330/279824.jpg

Damn. :puking: :whiner:

doublem23
12-07-2011, 08:51 PM
I'm quite certain KW didn't set the payroll limits.

Its OK, he's been on an irrational KW vendetta for a few weeks now. Mark Buehrle signed with the Marlins? KW's fault! The churros were cold? KW's fault! The Earth's axis tilts away from the Sun in the winter and days are shorter and temperatures colder? MOTHER****ING KW'S FAULT.

Frontman
12-07-2011, 08:56 PM
Its OK, he's been on an irrational KW vendetta for a few weeks now. Mark Buehrle signed with the Marlins? KW's fault! The churros were cold? KW's fault! The Earth's axis tilts away from the Sun in the winter and days are shorter and temperatures colder? MOTHER****ING KW'S FAULT.

How is this post any different than those targeting Fenway about Boston, huh? Also, I haven't been on a 'vendetta' against Kenny for weeks.

But it isn't "irrational" as I don't blame Kenny for things beyond his control. Payroll and roster moves are under Kenny's control.

But if you want to do what Seph was banned for; be my guest. Just don't expect people to respect you for acting just as ignorant.

doublem23
12-07-2011, 08:57 PM
How is this post any different than those targeting Fenway about Boston, huh? Also, I haven't been on a 'vendetta' against Kenny for weeks.

But it isn't "irrational" as I don't blame Kenny for things beyond his control. Payroll and roster moves are under Kenny's control.

But if you want to do what Seph was banned for; be my guest. Just don't expect people to respect you for acting just as ignorant.

It's KW's fault I'm so ignorant.

Lip Man 1
12-07-2011, 09:00 PM
Russ:

Take it for what it's worth but Gonzo has a story tonight where Kenny said he was done trading.

Gonzo wrote that Kenny apparently felt the meetings would be dictated by trades when it turned out they were dictated by free agent signings.

Lip

Frontman
12-07-2011, 09:01 PM
The signings were good (except Rios). It's the production that screwed that Sox, and no one would have predicted Adam Dunn to have, historically, the worst season ever.

The moves were good at the time for a team that was going for it. It didn't work out. But you make that Dunn deal 10 out of 10 times.

10 out of 10 on Dunn? Maybe 7 out of 10. Quite a few teams didn't like Dunn prior to 2011. But again; as some you pointed out; Dunn was beyond bad for his career numbers.

Hopefully he bounces back, and then it won't look so bad of a move.

DeadMoney
12-07-2011, 09:01 PM
Sucks to lose Buehrle, but this was pretty much set in stone since the day we signed Dunn last season. I'm going to go a different route and not blame the Dunn signing specifically though. This is on all of the other bad money KW's picked up - and given out - along the way the past few seasons (Peavy, Rios, Manny, and on and on it goes). And even at that, I'm not sure KW/Sox would've ever given Burls that kind of money.

Now... I hope no one has any ideas to start a FireKW.com or a FireKenny.com, because is appears that MLB Advanced Media already owns the domains. :wink:

Frontman
12-07-2011, 09:03 PM
Russ:

Take it for what it's worth but Gonzo has a story tonight where Kenny said he was done trading.

Gonzo wrote that Kenny apparently felt the meetings would be dictated by trades when it turned out they were dictated by free agent signings.

Lip

Might not be a bad thing for no more trades. Work more on signing FA's to fill the needs the Sox now have. I was rather sickened to see talk of possibly Beckham and possibly Ramierez being on the trading block; as the Sox would be running out of talent.

Frontman
12-07-2011, 09:05 PM
Sucks to lose Buehrle, but this was pretty much set in stone since the day we signed Dunn last season. I'm going to go a different route and not blame the Dunn signing specifically though. This is on all of the other bad money KW's picked up - and given out - along the way the past few seasons (Peavy, Rios, Manny, and on and on it goes). And even at that, I'm not sure KW/Sox would've ever given Burls that kind of money.

Now... I hope no one has any ideas to start a FireKW.com or a FireKenny.com, because is appears that MLB Advanced Media already owns the domains. :wink:


Well played, sir. And no; I wouldn't waste my own money on that, (or Heaven forbid, billboards) creating a website to voice frustration over Kenny Williams.

Right now, I'm POed at him. The Sox start 10-3 in April?

I'll be far more relaxed about him.

DirtySox
12-07-2011, 09:07 PM
Russ:

Take it for what it's worth but Gonzo has a story tonight where Kenny said he was done trading.

Gonzo wrote that Kenny apparently felt the meetings would be dictated by trades when it turned out they were dictated by free agent signings.

Lip

Kenny is not done trading. Believe me. They still have payroll to cut.

soltrain21
12-07-2011, 09:07 PM
Might not be a bad thing for no more trades. Work more on signing FA's to fill the needs the Sox now have. I was rather sickened to see talk of possibly Beckham and possibly Ramierez being on the trading block; as the Sox would be running out of talent.

Well Beckham appears to be part of the problem, too. And I would trade Ramirez if it's a good deal. What's the difference between 75 wins and 65 wins?

DirtySox
12-07-2011, 09:09 PM
Well Beckham appears to be part of the problem, too. And I would trade Ramirez if it's a good deal. What's the difference between 75 wins and 65 wins?

Toronto is very interested in Beckham. Much depends on what Kelly Johnson decides tonight. In turn White Sox are interested in Travis Snider, another once highly touted prospect that hasn't panned out.

Frontman
12-07-2011, 09:11 PM
Well Beckham appears to be part of the problem, too. And I would trade Ramirez if it's a good deal. What's the difference between 75 wins and 65 wins?

At this point? Nothing. But I want to see what Beckham can do one more year; before I completely give up on the kid.

And if Ramirez fetched 2 major league ready/soon to be ready players? I would be interested as well. But we both know it would be for hot garbage/hope to find a diamond in the rough type deal.

DeadMoney
12-07-2011, 09:12 PM
Well Beckham appears to be part of the problem, too. And I would trade Ramirez if it's a good deal. What's the difference between 75 wins and 65 wins?

If it means a heavily re-stocked minor league system, I'm all for it. In fact, with the additional Wild Card teams being added in 2013, maybe the entire thing should just be blown up this off season to get us closer to competing in 2013 and beyond.

hi im skot
12-07-2011, 09:14 PM
At this point? Nothing. But I want to see what Beckham can do one more year; before I completely give up on the kid.

And if Ramirez fetched 2 major league ready/soon to be ready players? I would be interested as well. But we both know it would be for hot garbage/hope to find a diamond in the rough type deal.

Or maybe not.

DSpivack
12-07-2011, 09:14 PM
Kenny is not done trading. Believe me. They still have payroll to cut.

Russ:

Take it for what it's worth but Gonzo has a story tonight where Kenny said he was done trading.

Gonzo wrote that Kenny apparently felt the meetings would be dictated by trades when it turned out they were dictated by free agent signings.

Lip

That's not the way I took that story. What I understood is that KW said that he thought these winter meetings would be more trade-centric as opposed to being about free agents. Instead, it has focused on the latter and he hasn't had as many teams looking for trades right now. I don't think that the roster is set, as DirtySox, I expect there are more trades to come.

Frontman
12-07-2011, 09:16 PM
Or maybe not.

Try to remain positive, eh? That's all we can do right now.

But man; hard to swallow that we might have to be hopeful for 2013, when it isn't even 2012 yet.

Noneck
12-07-2011, 09:17 PM
Years of chirping about its all about the family, didnt want to move,(except to his home team) wanted stability for them, maybe he will just retire and spend the time with family and then signs with the club that probably offered the most money and the longest term. Honestly it doesnt shock me at all.

Frontman
12-07-2011, 09:19 PM
Years of chirping about its all about the family, didnt want to move,(except to his home team) wanted stability for them, maybe he will just retire and spend the time with family and then signs with the club that probably offered the most money and the longest term. Honestly it doesnt shock me at all.

Hard to say no to 58 million bucks, though. Had he gotten a low-end offer all the way around, I think it would of been the Sox/Cards/retirement. But that was well beyond what I thought he'd be offered, honestly.

Noneck
12-07-2011, 09:22 PM
Hard to say no to 58 million bucks

I totally agree but dont blow smoke up naive people butts for years.

doublem23
12-07-2011, 09:25 PM
And if Ramirez fetched 2 major league ready/soon to be ready players? I would be interested as well. But we both know it would be for hot garbage/hope to find a diamond in the rough type deal.

This is the kind of **** that qualifies as irrational.

DirtySox
12-07-2011, 09:27 PM
That's not the way I took that story. What I understood is that KW said that he thought these winter meetings would be more trade-centric as opposed to being about free agents. Instead, it has focused on the latter and he hasn't had as many teams looking for trades right now. I don't think that the roster is set, as DirtySox, I expect there are more trades to come.

Right. Not much unfolded so far. Once Wilson and maybe Oswalt sign, the trading market for pitchers will open up. Just because the Winter Meetings end tomorrow means little. Kenny met with Cinci, Baltimore, and Boston at the very least these past few days talking trades. If Texas doesn't get Wilson, methinks they are all over Danks. Stay tuned folks.

Edit: It's also a leverage/posturing statement by Kenny. What is he supposed to say? Come one come all to the White Sox Garage Sale! Everything must go! Buy 2 get Dunn free?

DirtySox
12-07-2011, 09:28 PM
This is the kind of **** that qualifies as irrational.

No kidding. Alexei would bring you back a haul. Kenny stated many teams have inquired on him.

asindc
12-07-2011, 09:32 PM
How is this post any different than those targeting Fenway about Boston, huh? Also, I haven't been on a 'vendetta' against Kenny for weeks.

But it isn't "irrational" as I don't blame Kenny for things beyond his control. Payroll and roster moves are under Kenny's control.

But if you want to do what Seph was banned for; be my guest. Just don't expect people to respect you for acting just as ignorant.

I'm quite sure KW does not set payroll and I am just as certain the next GM won't either.

HomeFish
12-07-2011, 09:36 PM
Years of chirping about its all about the family, didnt want to move,(except to his home team) wanted stability for them, maybe he will just retire and spend the time with family and then signs with the club that probably offered the most money and the longest term. Honestly it doesnt shock me at all.

He also went back to the manager he has spent the longest time playing for.

Noneck
12-07-2011, 09:37 PM
I'm quite sure KW does not set payroll and I am just as certain the next GM won't either.


Not only payroll but some acquisitions are also probably are not made by him. Williams is and has been a good employee for years and has been rewarded by falling on the sword quite a few times I suspect.

Noneck
12-07-2011, 09:42 PM
He also went back to the manager he has spent the longest time playing for.


I think the only factor was playing for Green.

DirtySox
12-07-2011, 09:46 PM
I think the only factor was playing for Green.

Most sources noted that the Sox didn't even present him with an offer other than offering arbitration. They didn't have the money.

Noneck
12-07-2011, 09:49 PM
Most sources noted that the Sox didn't even present him with an offer other than offering arbitration. They didn't have the money.

The cardinals didnt make an offer?
Were the Marlins bidding against themselves?

russ99
12-07-2011, 09:52 PM
If it means a heavily re-stocked minor league system, I'm all for it. In fact, with the additional Wild Card teams being added in 2013, maybe the entire thing should just be blown up this off season to get us closer to competing in 2013 and beyond.

It takes more than one year of a bad record to restock a minor league system. More like 3-4 years and then a few more for these players to make an impact on the big league roster.

Considering the Sox have had a bottom-5 system for a while now, similarly the Astros are now going into year 3 of being serious about the rebuild, and they have only gone from the worst minor league system to the middle of the pack by most accounts after two high drafts and trading away their best players, and they pick first next year, and will likely lose 100 games again.

If the Sox are going to rebuild this way, (and I'm not saying they will be since we're still a big market club) it's going to be a long haul.

DirtySox
12-07-2011, 09:58 PM
The cardinals didnt make an offer?
Were the Marlins bidding against themselves?

Cardinals would have to move Lohse or Westbrook first, and they couldn't. The two primary teams with offers were Miami and Washington. Texas might have been in the mix too.

KMcMahon817
12-07-2011, 10:00 PM
Cardinals would have to move Lohse or Westbrook first, and they couldn't. The two primary teams with offers were Miami and Washington. Texas might have been in the mix too.

It was also reported that the Twins made an offer early in the week. But it was believed to be significantly lower than WAS and MIA.

DirtySox
12-07-2011, 10:02 PM
It takes more than one year of a bad record to restock a minor league system. More like 3-4 years and then a few more for these players to make an impact on the big league roster.

Considering the Sox have had a bottom-5 system for a while now, similarly the Astros are now going into year 3 of being serious about the rebuild, and they have only gone from the worst minor league system to the middle of the pack by most accounts after two high drafts and trading away their best players, and they pick first next year, and will likely lose 100 games again.

If the Sox are going to rebuild this way, (and I'm not saying they will be since we're still a big market club) it's going to be a long haul.

The Astros are an apt comparison. They ran their club very similar to the White Sox and are now seeing the fallout because of it. I hope the CBA changes might abbreviate the rebuild process, but I'm not sure it will.

Noneck
12-07-2011, 10:06 PM
Cardinals would have to move Lohse or Westbrook first, and they couldn't. The two primary teams with offers were Miami and Washington. Texas might have been in the mix too.

I understand the situation with Lohse and Westbrook but you think the cards didnt offer him anything? I mean like a 2 year deal.

DirtySox
12-07-2011, 10:07 PM
I understand the situation with Lohse and Westbrook but you think the cards didnt offer him anything? I mean like a 2 year deal.

It's possible. I'm sure they were quite preoccupied with the Albert situation though.

Lprof
12-07-2011, 10:49 PM
Like "I mismanaged numerous signings, waiver deals and free agent contracts so now we can't afford to keep Mark Buehrle". That would be a start.

Only if he had taken truth serum before the press conference. I really can't believe so many fans are willing to accept the nuclear winter that is about to hit us. The minors have been completely mishandled for years, and Kenny has made three of the worst big money acquisitions in recent memory (I defy anyone to tell me a more disastrous free agent signing than Dunn--EVER; even if his average goes up 50 points next year, he still is hitting under .210). And the Sox are going to trust him to conduct a rebuilding??

Corlose 15
12-07-2011, 11:29 PM
I'm finding it hard to be upset about this. Buehrle being gone was a foregone conclusion in my mind. That doesn't mean it isn't weird to see him in those hideous Marlins uniforms or that it won't be super weird to not see him take the ball every 5th day but I can't say I'm upset.

DSpivack
12-07-2011, 11:32 PM
Only if he had taken truth serum before the press conference. I really can't believe so many fans are willing to accept the nuclear winter that is about to hit us. The minors have been completely mishandled for years, and Kenny has made three of the worst big money acquisitions in recent memory (I defy anyone to tell me a more disastrous free agent signing than Dunn--EVER; even if his average goes up 50 points next year, he still is hitting under .210). And the Sox are going to trust him to conduct a rebuilding??

I just don't expect Jerry Reinsdorf to fire Kenny Williams any time soon, or maybe ever.

How long was Ron Schueler a mediocre GM? And Kenny Williams only got the job after Schueler retired. How long has it been since JR made a change at the top--20+ years?

Lip Man 1
12-08-2011, 12:28 AM
He fired Larry Himes in mid September 1990.

Lip

DSpivack
12-08-2011, 12:46 AM
He fired Larry Himes in mid September 1990.

Lip

I don't imagine there are many similarities in sports today, in terms of ownership sticking with management for 2 decades. Maybe I just can't think of any, I don't know.

soxrme
12-08-2011, 06:11 AM
Only if he had taken truth serum before the press conference. I really can't believe so many fans are willing to accept the nuclear winter that is about to hit us. The minors have been completely mishandled for years, and Kenny has made three of the worst big money acquisitions in recent memory (I defy anyone to tell me a more disastrous free agent signing than Dunn--EVER; even if his average goes up 50 points next year, he still is hitting under .210). And the Sox are going to trust him to conduct a rebuilding??
It is much better to have good clubhouse guys like Rios and Peavy than to keep a guy like Mark. Kenny has destroyed the farm system. When he was in charge of the farm system it wasn't good either. Start the rebuilding with the general manager. I am so sick of us losing our best players through the years with the excuse of money. Open the freaking books show us how little you have.

doublem23
12-08-2011, 06:14 AM
Kenny has destroyed the farm system. When he was in charge of the farm system it wasn't good either.

Yeah, it was only the #1 farm system in baseball

EastCoastSoxFan
12-08-2011, 07:22 AM
The 2012 White Sox -- Rebuild, or die trying.

soltrain21
12-08-2011, 07:32 AM
It is much better to have good clubhouse guys like Rios and Peavy than to keep a guy like Mark. Kenny has destroyed the farm system. When he was in charge of the farm system it wasn't good either. Start the rebuilding with the general manager. I am so sick of us losing our best players through the years with the excuse of money. Open the freaking books show us how little you have.

Who are the best players we've lost throughout the years? Sox have done a good job of keeping guys around. And, if you haven't noticed, all teams lose all types of players to free agency.

palehozenychicty
12-08-2011, 07:45 AM
I don't blame the Burlymon. He did what any rational human being would in that scope.

Our team looks silly anyway.

asindc
12-08-2011, 07:47 AM
It is much better to have good clubhouse guys like Rios and Peavy than to keep a guy like Mark. Kenny has destroyed the farm system. When he was in charge of the farm system it wasn't good either. Start the rebuilding with the general manager. I am so sick of us losing our best players through the years with the excuse of money. Open the freaking books show us how little you have.

You mean like they lost Buehrle in 2007? Pauly in 2005? Pauly in 2010? Dye in 2007? AJ in 2010?

Chez
12-08-2011, 07:58 AM
Trying to stay positive. I've thought since the beginning of last year that it would be either Buehrle or Danks (but not both) who get a long term deal with the Sox. I thought it would be Buehrle because of what JR did with Konerko and AJ last winter. Maybe the Sox extend Danks now that Mark is gone?

I also think that Buehrle will somehow finish his career with the Sox -- especially if JR still owns the team when Buehrle's contract with the Marlins is coming to an end.

Moses_Scurry
12-08-2011, 08:14 AM
Only if he had taken truth serum before the press conference. I really can't believe so many fans are willing to accept the nuclear winter that is about to hit us. The minors have been completely mishandled for years, and Kenny has made three of the worst big money acquisitions in recent memory (I defy anyone to tell me a more disastrous free agent signing than Dunn--EVER; even if his average goes up 50 points next year, he still is hitting under .210). And the Sox are going to trust him to conduct a rebuilding??

What are we supposed to do? These moves are being made whether we like them or not. We as fans are limited in our choices. We can stop being fans until they are good (bandwagon), we can stay fans but not go to the ballpark or follow the team as closely (probably the majority), or we can subject ourselves to bad baseball and figure things will only get better. Losing is not something Kenny accepts very easily. I think this is the start of the rebuild, but it won't take long before his itchy checkbook finger starts acting up again. Hopefully the moves will work out next time. For now, he needs to get as much young talent as possible for guys that will be gone in two years anyway.

Hitmen77
12-08-2011, 08:38 AM
Do the Sox get any draft pick compensation for losing him?

Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Buerhle to #Marlins: 4 yrs, $58M. #MLB
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Wow. I wouldn't have guessed at this time last year that Buehrle would get more money on his next contract that his then-current 4-yr/$56M deal.

Similar to what the last game recap on the main page of this site says, THIS is the final punch in the gut for 2011.

But that being said, it'll be interesting to see how he does. Before he rebounded in 2011, my view of Mark is that he had been slowly declining over the last several years. But moving to the NL may be just the thing for him. Is the new Marlins' park more of a hitters park or a pitcher's park?

DonnieDarko
12-08-2011, 08:55 AM
I first read this yesterday. I was so depressed that I couldn't post here. I knew that it was gonna happen in the back of my mind...almost like I didn't want to believe it would happen. Well, now it did, and it was a hell of a punch to the gut. It still hurts, even.

Now I can see why my fiancee cried during Buehrle's last start...

sachin
12-08-2011, 09:52 AM
I'm not too bummed out (but I did like the guy), but Buehrle signing with the Marlins for 4yr/$58M shows how out of whack things are in professional sports.

Just to break this down from Monopoly money to something relatable:

Buehrle has a history of pitching 200 innings a season. Therefore, he will get paid roughly $72,500 PER INNING. If he pitches the minimum 6 innings for a win, he will have made $435,000, or more than the annual salary of the President of the United States.

Ever wonder why tickets are so high? Beer costs $10 for a 22 oz. bomber you can buy at Jewel for $2? Just crazy....

Harry Chappas
12-08-2011, 10:09 AM
10 out of 10 on Dunn? Maybe 7 out of 10. Quite a few teams didn't like Dunn prior to 2011. But again; as some you pointed out; Dunn was beyond bad for his career numbers.

Hopefully he bounces back, and then it won't look so bad of a move.

The problem with this logic is that Dunn was acquired specifically for our "all in" season. If he bounces back to his statistical norm, it'll be too little too late since it will come during a rebuilding year.

He'd have to be off the charts good to even begin to erase Sox fans' collective memory of his disastrous 2011 season.

tstrike2000
12-08-2011, 10:12 AM
Trying to stay positive. I've thought since the beginning of last year that it would be either Buehrle or Danks (but not both) who get a long term deal with the Sox. I thought it would be Buehrle because of what JR did with Konerko and AJ last winter. Maybe the Sox extend Danks now that Mark is gone?

I also think that Buehrle will somehow finish his career with the Sox -- especially if JR still owns the team when Buehrle's contract with the Marlins is coming to an end.

I think it was JB who mentioned the Sox could trade Danks, perhaps back to Texas, for prospects. As this point, it might be a good idea. We really needed Buehrle to anchor that pitching staff and pitch his usual 200+ innings next year to help contend. With him gone and KW going into semi-rebuilding mode, may as well see what we can get.

hawkjt
12-08-2011, 10:16 AM
Hate to see this day come,but I was braced for it.
Burls will always be one of may alltime fav Sox players...along with PK,and Big Hurt. So many memories he has created for me and my family...it is a sad day.

That said, I agree that it sucks to see him go to the Marlins. I always was a big Ozzie fan,but he turned me this past season. Now, I hope he fails.
But,I do not really want Burls to be bad...can't do it.
I think he will be good in the NL....but, honestly, I think he was worth more to the Marlins than the Sox,production-wise.

Last season he pitched in a 6 man rotation most of the year,which resulted in his best year in the last 3,imo. I really doubt the Sox would be able to replicate that 6 man staff deal, longterm. In the NL,he will get taken out for a pinch hitter in the bottom of the 6th or 7th. In the AL he could go 8,so his arm will be somewhat protected in the NL. Also, I have to say, the Royals,Indians,Twins and Tigers have seen him so many times(has to be about 40-50 starts vs each team) I think they hit him better than outside teams. The Royals and Twins have definitely got a good book on him and go oppo on him early in the count constantly.

I think moving to the NL will be good for him, production-wise.
I think staying in the AL Central would have been tough on him production-wise.
I honestly do not think the Sox would match that offer,even if Dunn had not been signed. He simply is not worth that much for 4 years for a team that had to get younger. The Sox are in a different spot than the Marlins who are trying to establish a new identity with a new revenue stream in the stadium. I personally think that Loria will try to sell the team in a couple of years,when it becomes apparent that Miami is not going to support baseball enough to afford his overblown payroll,and he is not getting the luxury tax money.

Good Luck,MB! Will always be a fan...but Go Sox!

DirtySox
12-08-2011, 10:21 AM
Do the Sox get any draft pick compensation for losing him?

Yes. Supplemental pick.

asindc
12-08-2011, 10:22 AM
Hate to see this day come,but I was braced for it.
Burls will always be one of may alltime fav Sox players...along with PK,and Big Hurt. So many memories he has created for me and my family...it is a sad day.

That said, I agree that it sucks to see him go to the Marlins. I always was a big Ozzie fan,but he turned me this past season. Now, I hope he fails.
But,I do not really want Burls to be bad...can't do it.
I think he will be good in the NL....but, honestly, I think he was worth more to the Marlins than the Sox,production-wise.

Last season he pitched in a 6 man rotation most of the year,which resulted in his best year in the last 3,imo. I really doubt the Sox would be able to replicate that 6 man staff deal, longterm. In the NL,he will get taken out for a pinch hitter in the bottom of the 6th or 7th. In the AL he could go 8,so his arm will be somewhat protected in the NL. Also, I have to say, the Royals,Indians,Twins and Tigers have seen him so many times(has to be about 40-50 starts vs each team) I think they hit him better than outside teams. The Royals and Twins have definitely got a good book on him and go oppo on him early in the count constantly.

I think moving to the NL will be good for him, production-wise.
I think staying in the AL Central would have been tough on him production-wise.
I honestly do not think the Sox would match that offer,even if Dunn had not been signed. He simply is not worth that much for 4 years for a team that had to get younger. The Sox are in a different spot than the Marlins who are trying to establish a new identity with a new revenue stream in the stadium. I personally think that Loria will try to sell the team in a couple of years,when it becomes apparent that Miami is not going to support baseball enough to afford his overblown payroll,and he is not getting the luxury tax money.

Good Luck,MB! Will always be a fan...but Go Sox!

Very spot on analysis. I'm guessing all of these factors went into the decision not to re-sign MB. In particular, the 6-man rotation bump he got last season and the AL Central book on him are two overlooked and underrated factors, IMO.

spawn
12-08-2011, 10:37 AM
Hate to see this day come,but I was braced for it.
Burls will always be one of may alltime fav Sox players...along with PK,and Big Hurt. So many memories he has created for me and my family...it is a sad day.

That said, I agree that it sucks to see him go to the Marlins. I always was a big Ozzie fan,but he turned me this past season. Now, I hope he fails.
But,I do not really want Burls to be bad...can't do it.
I think he will be good in the NL....but, honestly, I think he was worth more to the Marlins than the Sox,production-wise.

Last season he pitched in a 6 man rotation most of the year,which resulted in his best year in the last 3,imo. I really doubt the Sox would be able to replicate that 6 man staff deal, longterm. In the NL,he will get taken out for a pinch hitter in the bottom of the 6th or 7th. In the AL he could go 8,so his arm will be somewhat protected in the NL. Also, I have to say, the Royals,Indians,Twins and Tigers have seen him so many times(has to be about 40-50 starts vs each team) I think they hit him better than outside teams. The Royals and Twins have definitely got a good book on him and go oppo on him early in the count constantly.

I think moving to the NL will be good for him, production-wise.
I think staying in the AL Central would have been tough on him production-wise.
I honestly do not think the Sox would match that offer,even if Dunn had not been signed. He simply is not worth that much for 4 years for a team that had to get younger. The Sox are in a different spot than the Marlins who are trying to establish a new identity with a new revenue stream in the stadium. I personally think that Loria will try to sell the team in a couple of years,when it becomes apparent that Miami is not going to support baseball enough to afford his overblown payroll,and he is not getting the luxury tax money.

Good Luck,MB! Will always be a fan...but Go Sox!

Great post.

ode to veeck
12-08-2011, 10:52 AM
Yeah marlins are on a mission in FA market apparently, Sox wouldn't make sense to match their offer..too high at this point in Burly Mon's career

rumors this AM that Angels got Pujols though, a major miss vs what the marlins are trying to buy into this offseason, especially considering what they spent for Burly Mon

Noneck
12-08-2011, 11:05 AM
It's possible. I'm sure they were quite preoccupied with the Albert situation though.

As it turned out, they could have and should have used their resources and time on Buehrle.

DirtySox
12-08-2011, 11:07 AM
As it turned out, they could have and should have used their resources and time on Buehrle.

Possibly. Still no spot in the rotation though. I imagine Prince is the new target.

Lip Man 1
12-08-2011, 11:10 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosenblog/chi-buehrles-exit-hurts-20111208,0,5827118.column

Sachin:

It's called the law of supply and demand.

I'll wager there are probably more people (qualified or not) who can be president than there are left handed pitchers who can get major league hitters out on a regular basis.

When you beat odds of a 100,000 to one to get to the top of your profession you're going to collect big. The Marlins think this is what Mark was worth.

Lip

asindc
12-08-2011, 11:14 AM
As it turned out, they could have and should have used their resources and time on Buehrle.

I'm guessing that they simply did not want to pay that much for Buehrle, regardless.

ktssox
12-08-2011, 11:16 AM
Yeah marlins are on a mission in FA market apparently, Sox wouldn't make sense to match their offer..too high at this point in Burly Mon's career

If nothing else, I think we can all agree on one thing - Mark Buehrle is consistent. Look at his stats since he signed his last contract. People really wouldn't pay him an extra $500,000/year, even if some of that is nostalgia pay? Do you honestly see his skills declining that much in the years to come?

doublem23
12-08-2011, 11:20 AM
Ever wonder why tickets are so high? Beer costs $10 for a 22 oz. bomber you can buy at Jewel for $2? Just crazy....

Ticket prices are that high because fans are still willing to pay them. You really think most owners wouldn't charge basically what they are charging now regardless if Buehrle signed a $50 million deal or a $5 million deal?

asindc
12-08-2011, 11:20 AM
If nothing else, I think we can all agree on one thing - Mark Buehrle is consistent. Look at his stats since he signed his last contract. People really wouldn't pay him an extra $500,000/year, even if some of that is nostalgia pay? Do you honestly see his skills declining that much in the years to come?

No.
Yes, but not so much in the NL.

Noneck
12-08-2011, 11:35 AM
I'm guessing that they simply did not want to pay that much for Buehrle, regardless.

Maybe but since they lost pujols and if they dont get fielder, I would figure the fan base to be a little upset if a major subtraction would occur and no addition after winning a championship.

ktssox
12-08-2011, 11:38 AM
No.
Yes, but not so much in the NL.

You probably didn't have to answer, since you've made it really clear how you feel about the whole thing. But since you did, is this just a hunch you have, or have you actually seen something that makes you believe he's on the decline?

asindc
12-08-2011, 11:43 AM
You probably didn't have to answer, since you've made it really clear how you feel about the whole thing. But since you did, is this just a hunch you have, or have you actually seen something that makes you believe he's on the decline?

The first three years of the contract term he just completed. Buehrle has not pitched like an ace since 2005, IMO. Apparently, it's not just what I've seen. It is apparently also what the GMs for St. Louis, Texas, Detroit, NYY, and maybe others are seeing as well. Hawkjt's post above summarizes it quite well.

ktssox
12-08-2011, 12:33 PM
The first three years of the contract term he just completed. Buehrle has not pitched like an ace since 2005, IMO. Apparently, it's not just what I've seen. It is apparently also what the GMs for St. Louis, Texas, Detroit, NYY, and maybe others are seeing as well. Hawkjt's post above summarizes it quite well.

Maybe that's where we differ - I guess I've never really considered him an "ace" type pitcher. I've always thought of him as a consistent workhorse. Maybe you think $14.5 million/year is too much to pay for that type of player. Maybe you thought we gave him too much in 2007. If that's the case, then it would be silly to try to convince you that he's worth that much now. In my opinion, he is now what he was then, and I think the stats speak to that. The guy gives you over 200 innings every single year, and you never worry about an injury with him. Those things are extremely valuable in my opinion. So, I wish we would have matched the offer.

asindc
12-08-2011, 12:39 PM
Maybe that's where we differ - I guess I've never really considered him an "ace" type pitcher. I've always thought of him as a consistent workhorse. Maybe you think $14.5 million/year is too much to pay for that type of player. Maybe you thought we gave him too much in 2007. If that's the case, then it would be silly to try to convince you that he's worth that much now. In my opinion, he is now what he was then, and I think the stats speak to that. The guy gives you over 200 innings every single year, and you never worry about an injury with him. Those things are extremely valuable in my opinion. So, I wish we would have matched the offer.

Fair enough, and it is not unreasonable to value his likely contribution to the Sox so highly. For the record, I do think the Sox slightly overpaid him in his just-completed contract, but I was in favor of it for all the reasons you mention, plus the sentimental factor. But during these past four years, I've seen enough that I'm not upset about him not coming back at an increase in salary.

ChiSoxGal85
12-08-2011, 01:30 PM
Intellectually, I understand all the logical reasons that the Sox shouldn't have given MB a bunch of money to stay here. But you know what just hit me like a punch in the gut?

Who pitches on Opening Day 2012??

****.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
12-08-2011, 02:41 PM
Intellectually, I understand all the logical reasons that the Sox shouldn't have given MB a bunch of money to stay here. But you know what just hit me like a punch in the gut?

Who pitches on Opening Day 2012??

****.

If the rotation stays intact from here on out, probably Danks.

If not, then probably Peavy, if he doesn't have an owie by then.

chisox12
12-08-2011, 02:43 PM
Intellectually, I understand all the logical reasons that the Sox shouldn't have given MB a bunch of money to stay here. But you know what just hit me like a punch in the gut?

Who pitches on Opening Day 2012??

****.


**** is right.

I guess we became a little spoiled having the same guy take the ball on opening day for so many years in a row.

chisox12
12-08-2011, 02:43 PM
if the rotation stays intact from here on out, probably danks.

If not, then probably peavy, if he doesn't have an owie by then.


:d::d::d:

eriqjaffe
12-08-2011, 02:44 PM
If not, then probably Peavy, if he doesn't have an owie by then.Say what you will about Peavy, the only way he won't try to go out and pitch will be if his arm has literally fallen off. Even then, he might try pitching left-handed.

I'm not saying that mindset is always in the best interest of the team, but I have a hard time finding too much fault with a guy who's going out and trying to do what he can, even if his body's not really up to the task.

GoGoCrede
12-08-2011, 03:01 PM
Say what you will about Peavy, the only way he won't try to go out and pitch will be if his arm has literally fallen off. Even then, he might try pitching left-handed.

I'm not saying that mindset is always in the best interest of the team, but I have a hard time finding too much fault with a guy who's going out and trying to do what he can, even if his body's not really up to the task.

I agree. I've always liked Peavy's work ethic. Say what you will about his tendency to get injured, but I have never, ever felt that he dogged it. He comes off as having a thirst to win, and has said as much. It's not like he's refusing to pitch or something. For these reasons, I can't hate on him like others can.

Frontman
12-08-2011, 08:07 PM
Hate to see this day come,but I was braced for it.
Burls will always be one of may alltime fav Sox players...along with PK,and Big Hurt. So many memories he has created for me and my family...it is a sad day.

That said, I agree that it sucks to see him go to the Marlins. I always was a big Ozzie fan,but he turned me this past season. Now, I hope he fails.
But,I do not really want Burls to be bad...can't do it.
I think he will be good in the NL....but, honestly, I think he was worth more to the Marlins than the Sox,production-wise.

Last season he pitched in a 6 man rotation most of the year,which resulted in his best year in the last 3,imo. I really doubt the Sox would be able to replicate that 6 man staff deal, longterm. In the NL,he will get taken out for a pinch hitter in the bottom of the 6th or 7th. In the AL he could go 8,so his arm will be somewhat protected in the NL. Also, I have to say, the Royals,Indians,Twins and Tigers have seen him so many times(has to be about 40-50 starts vs each team) I think they hit him better than outside teams. The Royals and Twins have definitely got a good book on him and go oppo on him early in the count constantly.

I think moving to the NL will be good for him, production-wise.
I think staying in the AL Central would have been tough on him production-wise.
I honestly do not think the Sox would match that offer,even if Dunn had not been signed. He simply is not worth that much for 4 years for a team that had to get younger. The Sox are in a different spot than the Marlins who are trying to establish a new identity with a new revenue stream in the stadium. I personally think that Loria will try to sell the team in a couple of years,when it becomes apparent that Miami is not going to support baseball enough to afford his overblown payroll,and he is not getting the luxury tax money.

Good Luck,MB! Will always be a fan...but Go Sox!

24 hours later; and you know what?

Your post sums it all up perfectly.

Sad to see him go; still will hope for the best out of Kenny during this rebuild; and let's go go White Sox!!!

TommyJohn
12-09-2011, 12:20 PM
I don't know about you guys, but I think that Kerry Wood's contract with the Indians was far more impressive.

Sox
12-09-2011, 12:43 PM
I guess it also means that Buehrle has no problems committing to Ozzie as his manager for four years.

Curious that the laid-back guy chose to accompany his motor-mouth manager out of town.......

But thinking of MB in those ugly new MIA jerseys is just......... ugh!!!

Agreed!!!

soxfanreggie
12-09-2011, 02:28 PM
Agreed!!!

I think there were $50 million+ reasons to follow Ozzie out of town. I think he would sign down in Miami without Ozzie being there considering the commitment they made this offseason to getting better.

They are a team with a lot of young talent - seeing that talent SHOULD get better every year...guys for ex. like Brad Hand and Logan Morrison - that just went out and also added Jose Reyes and Heath Bell. I also don't think they're done signing guys. I think you'll see them add at least one more quality FA to that team.

Nellie_Fox
12-09-2011, 03:12 PM
I think there were $50 million+ reasons to follow Ozzie out of town. I think he would sign down in Miami without Ozzie being there considering the commitment they made this offseason to getting better. True, but would he have signed if he was as sick of Ozzie as people here were saying that the veterans were? I would think, if all the Ozzie haters here were correct that he had "lost the clubhouse" that Mark would have wanted to avoid Ozzie.

KMcMahon817
12-09-2011, 03:25 PM
True, but would he have signed if he was as sick of Ozzie as people here were saying that the veterans were? I would think, if all the Ozzie haters here were correct that he had "lost the clubhouse" that Mark would have wanted to avoid Ozzie.

No. It was obvious Ozzie and Buehrle always got along. Not saying Ozzie lost the clubhouse, but it could have easily happened, all while MB and Oz still getting along fine.

With that said, MB didn't sign with the Marlins to hang with Ozzie.

tebman
12-09-2011, 04:03 PM
I don't know about you guys, but I think that Kerry Wood's contract with the Indians was far more impressive.

:rolling: