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#1swisher
11-02-2011, 01:45 PM
MLB

BREAKING: Manager Mike Quade will not return to the Cubs for the
2012 season

EDIT:
670TheScore

In an official statement, Cubs says next manager "must have
managerial or coaching experience at the major league level." No
Sandberg

Rocky Soprano
11-02-2011, 01:46 PM
Paging Mr. Sandberg.
Paging Mr. Sandberg.

tstrike2000
11-02-2011, 01:46 PM
I think it would've been more of a shock if he was asked back.

Cangelosi CF
11-02-2011, 01:47 PM
will be intriguing to see how much Epstein is involved in the search or if he lets Hoyer choose. IMHO Epstein is too "hands on" to be content as team president so....

MtGrnwdSoxFan
11-02-2011, 01:50 PM
Anyone who's surprised, raise your hand.

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

doublem23
11-02-2011, 01:51 PM
No surprise

http://www.wbez.org/story/mike-quade-wont-return-cubs-manager-93699

Fenway
11-02-2011, 01:51 PM
Paging Mr. Sandberg.
Paging Mr. Sandberg.

Theo wanted Sandberg to manage AAA Pawtucket but he took the Phillies offer thinking Charlie might retire in a few years and at the time Francona looked like he would be in Boston forever.

I think a lot depends on what Francona wants to do. I suspect Terry wants some time off.

g0g0
11-02-2011, 01:54 PM
My winter just keeps getting better and better. It's like candy! :bandance:

thomas35forever
11-02-2011, 02:26 PM
Theo wanted Sandberg to manage AAA Pawtucket but he took the Phillies offer thinking Charlie might retire in a few years and at the time Francona looked like he would be in Boston forever.
Rosenthal is now reporting that the Cardinals have asked the Phillies permission to interview Sandberg for their managerial vacancy. Imagine Ryno heading the Cards.

Lip Man 1
11-02-2011, 02:28 PM
No Ryno....ahhhhhh, poor wittle Cub fans.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-quade-20111101,0,1100346.story

Even better the CARDINALS have asked for permission to speak with him about their managerial opening!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-report-cardinals-ask-permission-to-interview-ryno-for-managing-job-20111102,0,5052138.story

Cubbie fans will be jumping off buildings if he gets the position. LOL.

Lip

soxinem1
11-02-2011, 02:28 PM
Theo wanted Sandberg to manage AAA Pawtucket but he took the Phillies offer thinking Charlie might retire in a few years and at the time Francona looked like he would be in Boston forever.

I think a lot depends on what Francona wants to do. I suspect Terry wants some time off.

Is a Theo/Francona Reunion Tour likely?

Fenway
11-02-2011, 02:37 PM
Is a Theo/Francona Reunion Tour likely?

Epstein told Boston media that had Francona come back in 2012, he would NOT have left Boston. :scratch:

It does appear that ownership and not Theo cut Tito loose.

DumpJerry
11-02-2011, 03:23 PM
MLB

BREAKING: Manager Mike Quade will not return to the Cubs for the
2012 season

EDIT:
670TheScore

In an official statement, Cubs says next manager "must have
managerial or coaching experience at the major league level." No
Ryan Sandberg
Not sure who Ryan Sandberg is, but they trio has already told Ryne Sandberg that he is not under consideration.:redneck

I don't see Francona coming to the Cubs because he just got out of one frying pan. Terry Bevington, however, does meet the criteria set forth.....

SoxSpeed22
11-02-2011, 03:27 PM
No surprise here. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a retread manager. I think Rick Renteria from San Diego would be a sleeper.

Frontman
11-02-2011, 03:34 PM
I love how many Cubs fans are already mad at Theo for saying he wanted an experienced skipper at the helm.

Let the man do his job and stop falling in love with fan favorites, Cubs fans.

white sox bill
11-02-2011, 03:50 PM
Quade seems like a good guy despite his record. He was the sacrificial lamb.

tebman
11-02-2011, 03:59 PM
Where is Bevington, anyway? I'm sure he's looking for work.

VMSNS
11-02-2011, 04:02 PM
I love how many Cubs fans are already mad at Theo for saying he wanted an experienced skipper at the helm.

Let the man do his job and stop falling in love with fan favorites, Cubs fans.

...and that is exactly why Theo is going to have a helluva time trying to change the Cubs culture in Chicago.

Not a surprising decision, at all. DeMarlo Hale and Dale Sveum are the names that are floating around right now.

I'm a little surprised that Theo decided to tell Ryno "no thanks" through Philly...

Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
by WaddleandSilvy
Theo Epstein reached out to Ryne Sandberg today, thru PHI, and explained to him he will not be a candidate for the Cubs' managerial job.

DumpJerry
11-02-2011, 04:03 PM
I love how many Cubs fans are already mad at Theo for saying he wanted an experienced skipper at the helm.

Let the man do his job and stop falling in love with fan favorites, Cubs fans.
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Chicago+White+Sox+Introduce+Robin+Ventura+tghNE6Bp u2Dl.jpg
Real basball fans don't fall in love with fan favorites.

mzh
11-02-2011, 04:08 PM
Where is Bevington, anyway? I'm sure he's looking for work.
Hacked by Timberwolf, eh? :tongue:

Wouldn't be shocked to see Bob Brenly brought down.

Fenway
11-02-2011, 04:15 PM
...and that is exactly why Theo is going to have a helluva time trying to change the Cubs culture in Chicago.

Not a surprising decision, at all. DeMarlo Hale and Dale Sveum are the names that are floating around right now.

I'm a little surprised that Theo decided to tell Ryno "no thanks" through Philly...

Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
by WaddleandSilvy
Theo Epstein reached out to Ryne Sandberg today, thru PHI, and explained to him he will not be a candidate for the Cubs' managerial job.

I don't think Epstein was allowed to talk to him directly as he is employed by the Phillies.

Frontman
11-02-2011, 04:15 PM
Quade seems like a good guy despite his record. He was the sacrificial lamb.

I think that was Quade's main problem; instead of being the boss of the team, he was everyone's buddy.

slavko
11-02-2011, 04:25 PM
Hacked by Timberwolf, eh? :tongue:

Wouldn't be shocked to see Bob Brenly brought down.

Concur.

Frontman
11-02-2011, 05:12 PM
Concur.

I actually would give the Cubs a fighting chance in 4 years if Brenly takes over. Going to take that long to move all the hot garbage contracts Hendry left for Theo to clean up.

Foulke You
11-02-2011, 05:51 PM
Where is Bevington, anyway? I'm sure he's looking for work.
:jerry
"I have managerial experience too and my resume is ready!"

Domeshot17
11-02-2011, 06:48 PM
I really don't know how anyone can knock this. Quade sucked and Theo is saying and doing all the right things thusfar. He could pretty much bring in anyone he wants to manage. I wouldn't bank on Theo but its possible, Dave Martinez is a hot candidate again. I mean yah, Theo could bring in Jerry Manuel, but he won't. The guy isn't a loser. He isn't kicking around boneheaded ideas of player managers or bringing in Sammy Sosa or Mark Grace or whatever the Cubs version of the Ventura hiring would be.

I dislike the Cubs as much as the next person, but the comments in this thread are borderline comical. Theo is building a team from the top down. We will see how he does, but lets be honest, if this was the Sox, we would be thrilled right now.

The interesting situation could come if he brings in Dave Martinez. If Martinez comes in and wins for the Cubs, you know it will be forever linked to the Sox passing him over for a manager with no experience at all. If Ventura wins and Martinez fails, Kenny could look brilliant again. I suppose its just as likely that both fail, or Martinez is not hired, but it is intriguing.

DumpJerry
11-02-2011, 07:05 PM
I really don't know how anyone can knock this. Quade sucked and Theo is saying and doing all the right things thusfar. He could pretty much bring in anyone he wants to manage. I wouldn't bank on Theo but its possible, Dave Martinez is a hot candidate again. I mean yah, Theo could bring in Jerry Manuel, but he won't. The guy isn't a loser. He isn't kicking around boneheaded ideas of player managers or bringing in Sammy Sosa or Mark Grace or whatever the Cubs version of the Ventura hiring would be.

I dislike the Cubs as much as the next person, but the comments in this thread are borderline comical. Theo is building a team from the top down. We will see how he does, but lets be honest, if this was the Sox, we would be thrilled right now.

The interesting situation could come if he brings in Dave Martinez. If Martinez comes in and wins for the Cubs, you know it will be forever linked to the Sox passing him over for a manager with no experience at all. If Ventura wins and Martinez fails, Kenny could look brilliant again. I suppose its just as likely that both fail, or Martinez is not hired, but it is intriguing.
In organizational behavior, there is a concept known as groupthink. Groupthink is a dangerous situation, the Bay of Pigs is a classic example. Groupthink occurs when there is pressure to conform with the thinking within the group to the point that dissent is strongly discouraged. To dissent is to be kicked out of the group. Right now, I'm looking at three Best Friends Forever who think they are world beaters. They are so impressed with their skills there is nobody who will dare mention it to them if they are pursuing a bad idea.

The way I look at it, the Three Wise Men can very easily become the The Stooges because they are so impressed with themselves they cannot see any fault in their methods.

Brian26
11-02-2011, 07:12 PM
I dislike the Cubs as much as the next person, but the comments in this thread are borderline comical. Theo is building a team from the top down. We will see how he does, but lets be honest, if this was the Sox, we would be thrilled right now.

Is that a direct quote, or did you just make that up? Yesterday on his media world tour, Hoyer said they are building it from the bottom up.

DrCrawdad
11-02-2011, 08:20 PM
When Quade was hired:

Quade seems to be what the Cubbies need right now...Quade has done well (24-13), and even though they were out of contention, that's a good result...Quade has a good chemistry with the team and knows the players. - g0g0, 10/15/2010

When Quade was fired:
My winter just keeps getting better and better. It's like candy! :bandance:

What a difference a year makes...

TommyJohn
11-02-2011, 08:32 PM
I really don't know how anyone can knock this. Quade sucked and Theo is saying and doing all the right things thusfar. He could pretty much bring in anyone he wants to manage. I wouldn't bank on Theo but its possible, Dave Martinez is a hot candidate again. I mean yah, Theo could bring in Jerry Manuel, but he won't. The guy isn't a loser. He isn't kicking around boneheaded ideas of player managers or bringing in Sammy Sosa or Mark Grace or whatever the Cubs version of the Ventura hiring would be.

I dislike the Cubs as much as the next person, but the comments in this thread are borderline comical. Theo is building a team from the top down. We will see how he does, but lets be honest, if this was the Sox, we would be thrilled right now.

The interesting situation could come if he brings in Dave Martinez. If Martinez comes in and wins for the Cubs, you know it will be forever linked to the Sox passing him over for a manager with no experience at all. If Ventura wins and Martinez fails, Kenny could look brilliant again. I suppose its just as likely that both fail, or Martinez is not hired, but it is intriguing.


I see mostly comments which express no surprise that the Cubs dumped Quade. I have have no idea what the hell you're reading.

Domeshot17
11-02-2011, 08:38 PM
In organizational behavior, there is a concept known as groupthink. Groupthink is a dangerous situation, the Bay of Pigs is a classic example. Groupthink occurs when there is pressure to conform with the thinking within the group to the point that dissent is strongly discouraged. To dissent is to be kicked out of the group. Right now, I'm looking at three Best Friends Forever who think they are world beaters. They are so impressed with their skills there is nobody who will dare mention it to them if they are pursuing a bad idea.

The way I look at it, the Three Wise Men can very easily become the The Stooges because they are so impressed with themselves they cannot see any fault in their methods.

But wouldn't they have to demonstrate any sign of drinking their own kool-aid before we can realistically say they are. I mean, until this point, they haven't done anything wrong. They are cutting ties with the guys who put up the softest big stats in baseball like Aramis, they are getting rid of an over matched manager, I mean, they are acting like a big, rich, team should. I am annoyed, but part of it is because the Cubs could realistically win with this group.

DrCrawdad
11-02-2011, 08:46 PM
I really don't know how anyone can knock this. Quade sucked and Theo is saying and doing all the right things thusfar. He could pretty much bring in anyone he wants to manage. I wouldn't bank on Theo but its possible, Dave Martinez is a hot candidate again. I mean yah, Theo could bring in Jerry Manuel, but he won't. The guy isn't a loser. He isn't kicking around boneheaded ideas of player managers or bringing in Sammy Sosa or Mark Grace or whatever the Cubs version of the Ventura hiring would be.

I dislike the Cubs as much as the next person, but the comments in this thread are borderline comical. Theo is building a team from the top down. We will see how he does, but lets be honest, if this was the Sox, we would be thrilled right now.

The interesting situation could come if he brings in Dave Martinez. If Martinez comes in and wins for the Cubs, you know it will be forever linked to the Sox passing him over for a manager with no experience at all. If Ventura wins and Martinez fails, Kenny could look brilliant again. I suppose its just as likely that both fail, or Martinez is not hired, but it is intriguing.

I see mostly comments which express no surprise that the Cubs dumped Quade. I have have no idea what the hell you're reading.

Quade had a job that he probably dreamed about, worked hard for, for years. I take no pleasure in Quade getting fired. That said, I don't blame the Cubs firing him and I understand that. It's just that Quade seemed like a decent enough person, not a megamillionaire manager who doesn't really need the job.

Mike Quade, "May the road rise to meet you."

DumpJerry
11-02-2011, 09:20 PM
But wouldn't they have to demonstrate any sign of drinking their own kool-aid before we can realistically say they are. I mean, until this point, they haven't done anything wrong. They are cutting ties with the guys who put up the softest big stats in baseball like Aramis, they are getting rid of an over matched manager, I mean, they are acting like a big, rich, team should. I am annoyed, but part of it is because the Cubs could realistically win with this group.
Come on, they are selling themselves as three best friends who know about how to build a baseball team than any other individual since Connie Mack. Until about a week ago, Cub fans never heard of Hoyer or the other guy (I forget his name) until Theo ordained them baseball geniuses. Give me a break. When they were with the Padres, how many World Series appearances did they have? When they were given the keys to the toy chest in Boston, did they have to build a franchise from the ground up or the top down? Nope. By the time 2014 finishes up, they will be known as Clown College.

Noneck
11-02-2011, 10:12 PM
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Chicago+White+Sox+Introduce+Robin+Ventura+tghNE6Bp u2Dl.jpg
Real basball fans don't fall in love with fan favorites.

Thats the 1st thing I thought after that post and that is of course after the hiring of another ex Sox fan favorite both with less baseball managerial experience than Sandberg. Someone here thinks only one team fans can feel this way. Very closed minded thinking.

doublem23
11-02-2011, 10:53 PM
Come on, they are selling themselves as three best friends who know about how to build a baseball team than any other individual since Connie Mack. Until about a week ago, Cub fans never heard of Hoyer or the other guy (I forget his name) until Theo ordained them baseball geniuses. Give me a break. When they were with the Padres, how many World Series appearances did they have? When they were given the keys to the toy chest in Boston, did they have to build a franchise from the ground up or the top down? Nope. By the time 2014 finishes up, they will be known as Clown College.

This closely resembles how I feel. Obviously firing Quade was going to happen. Even a ****ing moron could see that he was a ****ty manager, I don't care how bad or dysfunctional the team he was given was, he was a trainwreck and totally in over his head. I know Quade has a good rep as a minor league manager and some guys are only cut out for Des Moines. Chicago's not for everyone.

That being said, these guys are being given a ludicrous amount of credit for a very small amount of success thus far. I know, I know, the Red Sox won two rings under Theo's leadership, but the fact is he's only built a winning organization once. It's entirely possible he just got really, really lucky. 10 years ago, Billy Beane was considered a genius because of what he was doing with the A's, but in the decade since, he's basically been proven to be a mediocre GM (I would argue, anyway) that just fell ass backwards into the best pitching trio in the league. It's very possible that the core of Theo's "bottom-up organization building;" Pedroia, Ellsbury, and Lester are his Hudson, Mulder, and Zito and a lot of his mistakes (and there have been some) he's been able to cover up because the Red Sox are able to pay their way out of them. Maybe. Maybe not. Is Ricketts going to be able to match that spending if Theo has a Carl Crawford, Daisuke Matsuzaka, John Lackey v. 2.0?

But for a guy whose bread and butter is supposed to be a strong farm system and a strong baseball organization, his team just suffered a historic collapse because the Sawx were extraordinarily top heavy and had zero organizational depth.

So we'll see. I do know that if he does go down in flames, it's going to be ****ING HILARIOUS.

Frontman
11-02-2011, 10:55 PM
Noneck,

My point isn't Ryno's experience and fan favorite status as much as those fans who automatically think because he was a Cub he should automatically be considered and hired.

Time will tell if Ventura is a bad hire. Personally, I would of preferred Francona, but I'll support the Sox until Ventura proves he's not the guy, if that happens.

Noneck
11-02-2011, 11:13 PM
Noneck,

My point isn't Ryno's experience and fan favorite status as much as those fans who automatically think because he was a Cub he should automatically be considered and hired.

Time will tell if Ventura is a bad hire. Personally, I would of preferred Francona, but I'll support the Sox until Ventura proves he's not the guy, if that happens.

I dont have a clue what cubs fans think about this but I do know that most Sox fans were happy with the last two inexperienced fan favorites at the time of the managerial hire. Sandberg does have the experience to be considered and cub fans have every right to expect him to be considered for the job.

If your point was that cubs fan were clamoring to have Mark Grace considered you would have a point but the Sandberg clamoring is justified.

DumpJerry
11-02-2011, 11:40 PM
This closely resembles how I feel. Obviously firing Quade was going to happen. Even a ****ing moron could see that he was a ****ty manager, I don't care how bad or dysfunctional the team he was given was, he was a trainwreck and totally in over his head. I know Quade has a good rep as a minor league manager and some guys are only cut out for Des Moines. Chicago's not for everyone.

That being said, these guys are being given a ludicrous amount of credit for a very small amount of success thus far. I know, I know, the Red Sox won two rings under Theo's leadership, but the fact is he's only built a winning organization once. It's entirely possible he just got really, really lucky. 10 years ago, Billy Beane was considered a genius because of what he was doing with the A's, but in the decade since, he's basically been proven to be a mediocre GM (I would argue, anyway) that just fell ass backwards into the best pitching trio in the league. It's very possible that the core of Theo's "bottom-up organization building;" Pedroia, Ellsbury, and Lester are his Hudson, Mulder, and Zito and a lot of his mistakes (and there have been some) he's been able to cover up because the Red Sox are able to pay their way out of them. Maybe. Maybe not. Is Ricketts going to be able to match that spending if Theo has a Carl Crawford, Daisuke Matsuzaka, John Lackey v. 2.0?

But for a guy whose bread and butter is supposed to be a strong farm system and a strong baseball organization, his team just suffered a historic collapse because the Sawx were extraordinarily top heavy and had zero organizational depth.

So we'll see. I do know that if he does go down in flames, it's going to be ****ING HILARIOUS.
You're right. So far, the only thing they've done is fire Quade. That was no-brainer, heck, even a First Grader would have made the same decision. For the past two months every media outlet in Chicago has been referring to Quade in the past tense.

Let's see how they handle difficult situations before anointing them the Dream Team. I'm talking about Carlos Zambrano, a player Ricketts declared will never play for the Cubs again. Zambrano may not be moveable because of his history, even if the Cubs eat 90% of the contract. What do they do with him then? They have to hire a Manager-this is easier said than done given the mess the person will walk into. How do they convince a top-shelf manager candidate to take the job if there are other jobs out there? I would not be surprised if they hire a retread like Gaston or a second tier candidate because those are the only ones who will consider the job. I think most inside baseball people realize that it wasn't Theo who won those World Series games, it was the players. Sure some of them were brought in by Theo, but so were many dogs who were sent packing solely because the Red Sox could afford to send them packing. Also, Theo wasn't in the dugout and clubhouse during the games to get maximum performance from the players, that was Francona's job (except for September, 2011).

I'm thinking if I open a popcorn stand on the South Side, I'll be very wealthy while this soap opera plays out over the next few years.

gobears1987
11-03-2011, 04:33 AM
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Chicago+White+Sox+Introduce+Robin+Ventura+tghNE6Bp u2Dl.jpg
Real basball fans don't fall in love with fan favorites.

No one said Kenny Williams was smart.

soltrain21
11-03-2011, 08:32 AM
No one said Kenny Williams was smart.

Because it pretty much goes without saying that he is an intelligent guy.

Domeshot17
11-03-2011, 08:43 AM
Because it pretty much goes without saying that he is an intelligent guy.

Intelligent, surely. A good gm, debatable.

I am not saying I buy the hype that the trio is going to bring a title to the Cubs. What I am saying they are doing right is atleast having the Cubs acting the part of an expected winner. For the 3rd highest payroll in baseball, they have never acted like it. The Red Sox would have NEVER hired Quade. No one knows if it will work, but Theo is clearly focused on changing the culture, which was obviously needed.

jdm2662
11-03-2011, 09:12 AM
Intelligent, surely. A good gm, debatable.

I am not saying I buy the hype that the trio is going to bring a title to the Cubs. What I am saying they are doing right is atleast having the Cubs acting the part of an expected winner. For the 3rd highest payroll in baseball, they have never acted like it. The Red Sox would have NEVER hired Quade. No one knows if it will work, but Theo is clearly focused on changing the culture, which was obviously needed.

I agree he is doing this, and I like how he has handled things so far. He is certainly trying to focus on the baseball team, and not the other Cubbie cuteness per say. It is also obvious he is focused on doing what's best for the baseball team. All of this is fine and dandy, but let's see if the moves he makes work out. You can sound and talk a good game, but you still need to excecute. We've been down this path before with all the other Cubbie saviors.

Chez
11-03-2011, 10:00 AM
Intelligent, surely. A good gm, debatable.

I am not saying I buy the hype that the trio is going to bring a title to the Cubs. What I am saying they are doing right is atleast having the Cubs acting the part of an expected winner. For the 3rd highest payroll in baseball, they have never acted like it. The Red Sox would have NEVER hired Quade. No one knows if it will work, but Theo is clearly focused on changing the culture, which was obviously needed.

I'm not so sure about that. When he was hired by the Cubs, Quade's resume looked a lot like Grady Little's resume at the time he was hired by Boston. Whenever a team hires a manager without a major league track record (really any manager with or without a major league track record), there is risk involved. Actually, kind of a crap shoot.

Smokey Burg
11-03-2011, 10:49 AM
So far, everything they have done has just reeked of bad karma. Fire Mike Quadde, sure everyone knew it was coming but he bit the bullet for the last season, was given a team full of turds and was asked to turn them into gold. If anyone thinks that a different manager would have put the cubs in the playoffs this year, please pass around what you're drinking. Thanks, but no thanks Ryno, find your first major league management experience somewhere else, maybe like St. Louis or Philadelphia where the teams are already in shape to compete, unlike here. Rebuild the farm system, never heard that before. Everything they are talking about will take several years to develop, if it does. Personally, I think Epstein got lucky in Boston. His good moves more than made up for his bad moves. Things have a way of evening out, all he really had to do was ask Don Baylor, Dusty Baker, and/or Lou Pinella "How did the cub thing work for you?"

g0g0
11-03-2011, 11:05 AM
I really don't know how anyone can knock this. Quade sucked and Theo is saying and doing all the right things thusfar. He could pretty much bring in anyone he wants to manage. I wouldn't bank on Theo but its possible, Dave Martinez is a hot candidate again. I mean yah, Theo could bring in Jerry Manuel, but he won't. The guy isn't a loser. He isn't kicking around boneheaded ideas of player managers or bringing in Sammy Sosa or Mark Grace or whatever the Cubs version of the Ventura hiring would be.

I dislike the Cubs as much as the next person, but the comments in this thread are borderline comical. Theo is building a team from the top down. We will see how he does, but lets be honest, if this was the Sox, we would be thrilled right now.

The interesting situation could come if he brings in Dave Martinez. If Martinez comes in and wins for the Cubs, you know it will be forever linked to the Sox passing him over for a manager with no experience at all. If Ventura wins and Martinez fails, Kenny could look brilliant again. I suppose its just as likely that both fail, or Martinez is not hired, but it is intriguing.

All he (or any other President/VP/GM/Whatever title they make up) can do is put good people in place. If it doesn't work, then he has to make those difficult choices for change. But right now he's put great people in the front office and I'm sure he'll be able to lure a solid manager into the dugout. Whether it works no one will know.

In organizational behavior, there is a concept known as groupthink. Groupthink is a dangerous situation, the Bay of Pigs is a classic example. Groupthink occurs when there is pressure to conform with the thinking within the group to the point that dissent is strongly discouraged. To dissent is to be kicked out of the group. Right now, I'm looking at three Best Friends Forever who think they are world beaters. They are so impressed with their skills there is nobody who will dare mention it to them if they are pursuing a bad idea.

The way I look at it, the Three Wise Men can very easily become the The Stooges because they are so impressed with themselves they cannot see any fault in their methods.

I wouldn't say they are doing anything other than buying into a philosophy. They need personnel/coaches/players who buy into that philosophy for it to work.

When Quade was hired:



When Quade was fired:


What a difference a year makes...

:rolleyes:

Thanks for trying to call me out, but a year DID make a difference, didn't it? He came in telling everyone that he was getting tough, play smart baseball, yada yada yada and then this year he can't control the squad and makes tons of questionable boneheaded calls. I know he had pitching injuries and issues, but come on.

I think he is a good base coach and minor league manager. But he didn't get it done once on the big time hotseat for a full season. If there was someone like him in the future with the same credentials and experience, I would give them a chance too. That's why I would still welcome Ryno.

AZChiSoxFan
11-03-2011, 12:25 PM
This closely resembles how I feel. Obviously firing Quade was going to happen. Even a ****ing moron could see that he was a ****ty manager, I don't care how bad or dysfunctional the team he was given was, he was a trainwreck and totally in over his head. I know Quade has a good rep as a minor league manager and some guys are only cut out for Des Moines. Chicago's not for everyone.

That being said, these guys are being given a ludicrous amount of credit for a very small amount of success thus far. I know, I know, the Red Sox won two rings under Theo's leadership, but the fact is he's only built a winning organization once. It's entirely possible he just got really, really lucky. 10 years ago, Billy Beane was considered a genius because of what he was doing with the A's, but in the decade since, he's basically been proven to be a mediocre GM (I would argue, anyway) that just fell ass backwards into the best pitching trio in the league. It's very possible that the core of Theo's "bottom-up organization building;" Pedroia, Ellsbury, and Lester are his Hudson, Mulder, and Zito and a lot of his mistakes (and there have been some) he's been able to cover up because the Red Sox are able to pay their way out of them. Maybe. Maybe not. Is Ricketts going to be able to match that spending if Theo has a Carl Crawford, Daisuke Matsuzaka, John Lackey v. 2.0?

But for a guy whose bread and butter is supposed to be a strong farm system and a strong baseball organization, his team just suffered a historic collapse because the Sawx were extraordinarily top heavy and had zero organizational depth.

So we'll see. I do know that if he does go down in flames, it's going to be ****ING HILARIOUS.

The part of your comment that I bolded is SPOT ON and may be the most insightful comment in this entire thread.

AZChiSoxFan
11-03-2011, 05:51 PM
No Ryno....ahhhhhh, poor wittle Cub fans.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-quade-20111101,0,1100346.story

Even better the CARDINALS have asked for permission to speak with him about their managerial opening!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-report-cardinals-ask-permission-to-interview-ryno-for-managing-job-20111102,0,5052138.story

Cubbie fans will be jumping off buildings if he gets the position. LOL.

Lip

I love how Sox fans here mock the Cub fans for wanting Sandberg to manage the club, while the same people loved the hiring of Ventura. Remind me again which of those two has spent the last several years managing in the minors and which one has spent his time playing golf and watching daytime TV?

Fenway
11-03-2011, 08:17 PM
Looks to me the job is Francona's IF Tito wants it


"Tito and I have spoken regularly since the end of the season," Epstein said. "We actually spoke today. We are going to sit down together and see if it's a fit.


http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/7185139/chicago-cubs-theo-epstein-terry-francona-top-skipper-option

Frontman
11-03-2011, 08:23 PM
I love how Sox fans here mock the Cub fans for wanting Sandberg to manage the club, while the same people loved the hiring of Ventura. Remind me again which of those two has spent the last several years managing in the minors and which one has spent his time playing golf and watching daytime TV?

I didn't realize 4 years equals "several" but I think you mean Ryno.

As far as mocking Cubs fans; it isn't their want of Sandberg that I'm mocking. It's the "Theo doesn't know what he's doing/is a jerk for NOT considering Ryno" that I mock.

As I said, Ventura might prove to be a good manager; or he could completely stink. Who knows. But just because one is hired doesn't mean the other should automatically be hired because he wore white and blue pinstripes.

DrCrawdad
11-03-2011, 09:11 PM
I love how Sox fans here mock the Cub fans for wanting Sandberg to manage the club, while the same people loved the hiring of Ventura. Remind me again which of those two has spent the last several years managing in the minors and which one has spent his time playing golf and watching daytime TV?

There is a H-U-G-E difference in degree here though, IMHO. Cubs fans have mad love and adoration of Ryne Sandberg. I don't think Sox fans come anywhere near that type of love and adoration for Ventura.

I respect the work that Sandberg has been willing to do in his quest to become a MLB manager. I don't know if Ventura was willing or not to go that route (I assume not since he didn't do it) but I'm not going to be quick to disqualify Ventura because he lacks that experience.

TheVulture
11-04-2011, 03:27 AM
Thats the 1st thing I thought after that post and that is of course after the hiring of another ex Sox fan favorite both with less baseball managerial experience than Sandberg. Someone here thinks only one team fans can feel this way. Very closed minded thinking.

I don't recall Sox fans crying themselves to sleep awaiting the day Ventura finally received his just reward of managing the team.

TheVulture
11-04-2011, 03:29 AM
I didn't realize 4 years equals "several" but I think you mean Ryno.



Several: more than two but not many.

soltrain21
11-04-2011, 08:40 AM
There is a H-U-G-E difference in degree here though, IMHO. Cubs fans have mad love and adoration of Ryne Sandberg. I don't think Sox fans come anywhere near that type of love and adoration for Ventura.

I respect the work that Sandberg has been willing to do in his quest to become a MLB manager. I don't know if Ventura was willing or not to go that route (I assume not since he didn't do it) but I'm not going to be quick to disqualify Ventura because he lacks that experience.

What point are you trying to make here?

DrCrawdad
11-04-2011, 08:55 AM
What point are you trying to make here?

I responded to this comment:

I love how Sox fans here mock the Cub fans for wanting Sandberg to manage the club, while the same people loved the hiring of Ventura. Remind me again which of those two has spent the last several years managing in the minors and which one has spent his time playing golf and watching daytime TV?

Did some Sox fans mock the hiring of Sandberg? Sure. But Sox fans have also been supportive of Sandberg when he was a HOF candidate.

My point? There is a huge difference between Cubbie fans worship of Sandberg and Sox fans response to Ventura. To make it clear, I disagree with AZChiSoxFan's post above.

Who are the people who fit that description? Names please.

soltrain21
11-04-2011, 08:58 AM
I responded to this comment:



Did some Sox fans mock the hiring of Sandberg? Sure. But Sox fans have also been supportive of Sandberg when he was a HOF candidate.

My point? There is a huge difference between Cubbie fans worship of Sandberg and Sox fans response to Ventura. To make it clear, I disagree with AZChiSoxFan's post above.

Who are the people who fit that description? Names please.

All teams have fans that worship certain players. It just isn't limited to "Cubbie" fans.

You don't think people here would be begging for Paul Konerko to coach the team if he had been in the minors coaching for a few years and we had the position open?

DrCrawdad
11-04-2011, 09:05 AM
What point are you trying to make here?

All teams have fans that worship certain players. It just isn't limited to "Cubbie" fans.

You don't think people here would be begging for Paul Konerko to coach the team if he had been in the minors coaching for a few years and we had the position open?

Paul Konerko is a viable comparison. Ventura is not.

Kenny Williams apparently considered Konerko for player/manager. Horrible idea and rightfully worthy of mocking. And if some Sox fans beg for Konerko as a manager then I'm sure they'll be mocked by Sox fans here and by Cubbie Clowns too. Fine with me.

I think that Sox fans have been very balanced towards Sandberg and Santo as far as their HOF considerations. Far from the stereotype that Sox fan critics peddle.

g0g0
11-04-2011, 10:04 AM
Paul Konerko is a viable comparison. Ventura is not.

Kenny Williams apparently considered Konerko for player/manager. Horrible idea and rightfully worthy of mocking. And if some Sox fans beg for Konerko as a manager then I'm sure they'll be mocked by Sox fans here and by Cubbie Clowns too. Fine with me.

I think that Sox fans have been very balanced towards Sandberg and Santo as far as their HOF considerations. Far from the stereotype that Sox fan critics peddle.

But you are missing the point IMO. It isn't just because he's a HOF former player (that definitely makes a difference); he has experience managing in the minors on multiple teams and has done well with them. He's been contacted by the :puking:World Champion Cards. Now that might just be to stick it to Cubs fans - I don't know. But he's also been on other teams' lists like the Phillies and Red Sox.

DrCrawdad
11-04-2011, 10:51 AM
But you are missing the point IMO. It isn't just because he's a HOF former player (that definitely makes a difference); he has experience managing in the minors on multiple teams and has done well with them. He's been contacted by the :puking:World Champion Cards. Now that might just be to stick it to Cubs fans - I don't know. But he's also been on other teams' lists like the Phillies and Red Sox.

I do not have an issue with Sandberg as a managerial candidate. As I've said here already, I'm impressed that Ryne has gone thru managing on the minor league level. I can understand Cubbie fans desire to see him manage the Cubs. I don't believe I've bashed or mocked Ryne as a managerial candidate nor Cubbie fans wishes for him to take over the team.

What does surprise me is the hypersensitivity here to any of the slightest criticism or even mocking of the Cubs.

C-Dawg
11-04-2011, 12:31 PM
I love how Sox fans here mock the Cub fans for wanting Sandberg to manage the club, while the same people loved the hiring of Ventura. Remind me again which of those two has spent the last several years managing in the minors and which one has spent his time playing golf and watching daytime TV?

I think most Sox fans I know, either here on the forum or in "real life", were surprised by the hiring of Ventura and remain, at best, cautiously optimistic about him. The concern is that his inexperience will become an issue if the team struggles and he'll be thrown under the bus, which is the last thing we want to see happen to one of our all-time favorite Sox players ever.

That's not the same thing as "loving the hiring of Ventura", not even close.

PatK
11-04-2011, 03:51 PM
I think most Sox fans I know, either here on the forum or in "real life", were surprised by the hiring of Ventura and remain, at best, cautiously optimistic about him. The concern is that his inexperience will become an issue if the team struggles and he'll be thrown under the bus, which is the last thing we want to see happen to one of our all-time favorite Sox players ever.

That's not the same thing as "loving the hiring of Ventura", not even close.

Spot on

Frontman
11-04-2011, 04:29 PM
There is a H-U-G-E difference in degree here though, IMHO. Cubs fans have mad love and adoration of Ryne Sandberg. I don't think Sox fans come anywhere near that type of love and adoration for Ventura.

I respect the work that Sandberg has been willing to do in his quest to become a MLB manager. I don't know if Ventura was willing or not to go that route (I assume not since he didn't do it) but I'm not going to be quick to disqualify Ventura because he lacks that experience.

The closest we currently have to the level of love Cubs fans have for Sandberg is our love of Frank; ie our modern day Hall of Famer.

We had a bit of that love over-looking flaws when Frank's name was ballied about for hitting coach. Personally, I don't know if Frank would make a good coach; as his swing and his hitting was second nature to him. Can that be taught?

But, I certainly wouldn't cry foul at Kenny for not hiring Frank. Nor would I be upset if he was hired.

Yes, Sandberg has some managerial experience. But, considering the Cubs are a few seasons away from contending; would it make sense to bring him in now during the rebuilding process?

AZChiSoxFan
11-04-2011, 06:30 PM
Paul Konerko is a viable comparison. Ventura is not.

Kenny Williams apparently considered Konerko for player/manager. Horrible idea and rightfully worthy of mocking. And if some Sox fans beg for Konerko as a manager then I'm sure they'll be mocked by Sox fans here and by Cubbie Clowns too. Fine with me.

I think that Sox fans have been very balanced towards Sandberg and Santo as far as their HOF considerations. Far from the stereotype that Sox fan critics peddle.


I fail to see why Konerko would be any worse of a manager than Ventura will be.

AZChiSoxFan
11-04-2011, 06:33 PM
I do not have an issue with Sandberg as a managerial candidate. As I've said here already, I'm impressed that Ryne has gone thru managing on the minor league level. I can understand Cubbie fans desire to see him manage the Cubs. I don't believe I've bashed or mocked Ryne as a managerial candidate nor Cubbie fans wishes for him to take over the team.

What does surprise me is the hypersensitivity here to any of the slightest criticism or even mocking of the Cubs.

I mock cub fans as much as anyone around here (with the possible exception of Hangar :smile:).

But in this case I noticed Sox fans mocking cub fans, for doing the very same thing the Sox fans were doing.

AZChiSoxFan
11-04-2011, 06:35 PM
I think most Sox fans I know, either here on the forum or in "real life", were surprised by the hiring of Ventura and remain, at best, cautiously optimistic about him. The concern is that his inexperience will become an issue if the team struggles and he'll be thrown under the bus, which is the last thing we want to see happen to one of our all-time favorite Sox players ever.

That's not the same thing as "loving the hiring of Ventura", not even close.

Point taken. From reading through the thread when he was hired, my overall sense was that most were pretty happy about it. But, I may have misread the overall tone.

g0g0
11-04-2011, 06:35 PM
Yes, Sandberg has some managerial experience. But, considering the Cubs are a few seasons away from contending; would it make sense to bring him in now during the rebuilding process?

For me, it would have to depend on their vision for the future. Yes they've tipped their hat to rebuilding the farm system and team in general, but that was obvious from the start that it needed done. If they were serious about giving him some time managing a 'dead team walking' (and were confident he wouldn't get burnt out or eaten alive until they got a real team in place), then it might be worth it. I just don't see how they are going to rebuild and contend at the same time - or lure a big name manager who wants to manage knowing he's still a few years off from contending for anything.

palehozenychicty
11-08-2011, 11:23 PM
Sandberg is better off building his experience for the right position. I don't believe that is managing the Chicago Cubs in the short-term.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

DrCrawdad
11-09-2011, 07:13 AM
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/card/images/headshot_17318.jpg

So now the Cubbies are interviewing Mike Maddux, who has experience as a major league pitching coach, but zero major league managerial experience and from what I can tell no managerial experience at all. I thought they said they wanted someone with major league managerial experience? Maybe they are not interested in Maddux but are merely interested in being near Mike's 'stache.

g0g0
11-09-2011, 07:23 AM
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/card/images/headshot_17318.jpg

So now the Cubbies are interviewing Mike Maddux, who has experience as a major league pitching coach, but zero major league managerial experience and from what I can tell no managerial experience at all. I thought they said they wanted someone with major league managerial experience? Maybe they are not interested in Maddux but are merely interested in being near Mike's 'stache.

While the that 'stache is a force to be reckoned with, I read the Cubs were appeasing Greg with it as he might be returning too in some capacity. So maybe a courtesy interview?

DrCrawdad
11-09-2011, 08:40 AM
While the that 'stache is a force to be reckoned with, I read the Cubs were appeasing Greg with it as he might be returning too in some capacity. So maybe a courtesy interview?

IMHO, Courtesy interviews are worse than no interview at all.

g0g0
11-09-2011, 11:05 AM
IMHO, Courtesy interviews are worse than no interview at all.

I agree - unless it is to get him out there and draw attention for other jobs he might have a shot at. I would think if Greg wanted it, then maybe Mike knew about it also? Either way it's just wasting the Cubs and Mike's time if they aren't serious about him.

Smokey Burg
11-09-2011, 12:39 PM
And we all know that the cubs have never wasted time, effort, oppurtunity, careers, money, etc. etc.